Part Two: The Terrible Secret of Steve Jobs | BEHIND THE BASTARDS

[@fredericksmith7942]

Wait, so Steve didn’t even come up with the name Apple OR the minimalist logo? One of the films about him straight up has a scene where Steve Wozniak keeps coming up with a bunch of lame faux-Trekkie names and then Steve suggests “apple” in a moment of inspiration and Woz looks at him in awe.

[@Virjunior01]

That's what I call "social propaganda." Making something a better story while sacrificing truth... chasing mythology. It's similar to how American children are taught of Henry ford's benevolence as a captain of industry (and Capitalism when you're older), but they will NEVER teach you he was a disgusting anti-semite and sympathizer of the American Bund (SS). Same with Charles Limburgh. They whitewash as much history as they can... the big difference NOW is that the companies involved have big legal teams and aren't dead by a century or two.

[@chubbubdreamer6904]

Lol because of course it would

[@JONNYSORENSEN_AU]

he also flew backwards in time to not save lois lane

[@rainydayjules]

Of course, Woz was a ~ neeeeerd

[@JD3Gamer]

Yeah that’s the Ashton Kutcher one which sucks

[@BenHyle]

Wozniak sounds like Bilbo Baggins at the end of the Hobbit, just all "There's plenty of money for everyone, of course we must share it!"

[@rothloaf1980]

Woz followed me on twitter after I left a reply of "Wozniak was the gear head. Jobs was just a con man doing a moody guru act" under a Jobs meme that was floating around. I have no respect for the glorified car sales persons of the tech industries. *Entrepreneurs* are humanity's greatest failure. They're killing us all for their pointless *vision.*

[@VildhjartaFanGurl]

Facts

[@taxirob2248]

Only hindsight can show us who the visionaries were, and which visions were actually nightmares.

[@rothloaf1980]

@@taxirob2248 True. I just see that all visionary widget-doohickeys usually end up in a landfill... it's like we get sold our future garbage under the guise of a deeper, marketed meaning.

[@Turshin]

You need both types. Unfortunately capitalism praises those that know how to use others as tools. But that's what creates employment and makes the world go around.

[@sd-ch2cq]

​@@TurshinYeah. In a successful company you need both tech-people and marketing-people. There's nothing wrong with being good at marketing, but Steve Job's problem is that he was an a-hole.

[@FTZPLTC]

There's an old X-Files episode that I'm just now realising was literally bludgeoning us over the head with how much it was explicitly about how Steve Jobs screwed over Steve Wozniak and how he should die.

[@stanleywang8686]

Wasn't wearing my glasses, thought it said "The Terrible Scent of Steve Jobs"

[@kellywalker1664]

Also valid. 😂

[@lukelee7967]

Any story about the early days of Apple could be called either "Steve Jobs, bad person" or "Steve Wozniak, stand up dude"

[@emexdizzy]

I feel so bad for Woz, because I've been in a similar spot, developing a project with a best friend who I didn't realize was a selfish snake who cared more about their success than my feelings or our friendship. Y'all mentioned in the previous episode that he cried when he learned Steve had been betraying him and ripping him off for years and damn, I feel that. Hope he's gotten better friends since who treat him as he deserves.

[@AdasraEfri-vl3fu]

The wild thing is that we tend to be so bad at selling ourselves that we are desperate for a friend who will promote our work for us. One time in a thousand it will actually be a friend instead of a bastard taking advantage and that's enough to keep hope alive

[@shmehfleh3115]

29:15 - The Apple II's CPU was an off-the-shelf part, a 6502 made by a company called MOS Technologies. It had no ability to generate an image by itself. Frankly, the overwhelming majority of Apple II components are off-the-shelf, because Apple at the time didn't have the money or expertise to roll their own. Woz's genius came from arranging those components in ways nobody else had thought of before, ways that minimized cost and maximized flexibility.

[@JD3Gamer]

I think that if there’s any take away from the life of Steve Jobs it’s that his success is an indictment on our society. Our society elevates people like Jobs to the highest levels of wealth and power.

[@rorz999]

It's true, and it sucks. I've worked for people like this on a smaller scale, we probably all have. Incompetent people with a questionable moral compass, who gets to where they are because they are ruthless and can talk the talk

[@justinwatson1510]

I used to feel bad for him regarding how he died; now I only wish he could have suffered longer on his way out.

[@marocat4749]

Ok after the point where he wtf, he didnt pay childcare in an agreement , before he had to, to not pay more. And denied his child. He is a worse father than elon.

[@burgerpocalypse]

what if his idiot fake cancer treatment plan worked? it would have been really cool that he survived, but at great cost and in a way that caused his quality of life to permanently plummet. we can only imagine whether steve would have had a new outlook on life and perhaps attempted to make amends, but most likely he would not realize he did anything incorrectly and seek to make the world as miserable as he is

[@ohsweatbret]

That’s not cool. He was a shitty person who’s dead because of his own choices. He didn’t spend time with his family while reminiscing over stories . He spent his final days grappling with the knowledge he was a monster to his kid and failed as a parent

[@GuyNamedSean]

My lord. My video got stuck buffering at *"Ya know Saddam Hussein? Now there was a ma-"*

[@Railer890]

"Dongle-pilled" is such an underrated comment 😂

[@queenvictoria738]

I request a Walt Disney video in this vein of bastards who had grand ideas and no clue how things worked, then made a brand that is up there competing for control of the universe.

[@TheNotoriousBTG]

That would be a good one, and suggesting it on this episode is very fitting. Like Jobs needed Wozniak, Walt needed his brother Roy. If not for Roy being the finance guy, Walt would have driven his studio bankrupt. You know, again. RIP Laugh-O-Gram Studios

[@TelenTerror]

​@@TheNotoriousBTG Defunctland has done a couple of documentaries that feature him heavily.

[@TheNotoriousBTG]

@@TelenTerror Absolutely. I love that channel.

[@supadoob]

@ Ub Iwerks

[@Chaosqueenngami]

Ok, after all this, if someone says they want to be like Steve or that he is their hero, it should be the biggest red flag.

[@NeighborhoodOfBlue]

44:35 As someone with an IUD....how does one 'expel' without you knowing? I just....can't imagine.

[@StardustontheWind]

From what I understand, as a non-medical profesional who does not have an IUD, they usually won’t hurt much when falling out, so I guess that could help it, uh, slip by unnoticed? It is crazy though

[@solarmoth4628]

IUDs definitely can fall out without you knowing. It’s pretty rare now but image that like IUDs in the 70’s weren’t that great yet.

[@StayGreenBDifferent]

If you use a menstrual cup, the suction can pull the IUD out with it.

[@TwoWholeWorms]

Woz seems like such a nice guy who only changed for the better after getting cash. The way Jobs treated him is just disgusting. It's literally like kicking a dog, if that dog was also spinning pure golden clothing for you. :|

[@maxm5382]

Man this is really Steving my Job

[@ThermiteThonk]

What's computing my apple!!!

[@marocat4749]

jobbing my steve

[@davidgoodman2813]

What's Smelling My Steeeeeeves?!?!

[@johonsberger]

This is really dying of pancreatic cancer that could have been cured because I ate too much fruit my thinking that acupuncture and herbal remedies would work better than chemo on something that’s pretty survivable when treated before it spreads. Uh . . .

[@hughjanos3992]

who up jobbing they steve

[@colemc18]

Pro-tip: If you're looking to get stock options or more compensation from an employer (especially a start-up) make sure to get it in writing even if its just a email!!! That will legally hold-up in court and this happened to ex in college. Where she was doing free work for a sketchy vitamin start-up on the "idea" of being given stock options. I pressed her and pressed her to get some form of written confirmation on this as I was skeptical. Well she tried to assure me on this, but when she pushed on this they basically admitted that they weren't ever going to give her any shares. She quit that day.

[@taxirob2248]

Was she mad at you for being right?

[@sholem_bond]

Rah rah Rasputin, Smelly charismatic man

[@waywardscythe3358]

Oh man Native body wash is the fountain of youth!! I've already ingested a liter and feel amazing!!! Thanks BtB!! This was one of the top ad pivots, and I can't wait to live forever to see every other ad pivot to come!!

[@hughjanos3992]

i fucking hate them and their ads. its a fucking psyop. im being truman showed. its like something straight out of the onion. a white woman centaur emerges from the forest to shill me some "natural" soap called native? 💀:aintnoway:💀

[@DG_musician]

These episodes make me feel justified in my hatred of Apple products. 😂

[@marocat4749]

Yes, not just overprised and unnessesary exclusive, and more priced than microsoft

[@DG_musician]

@@marocat4749 I hate fact that Apple products are made to be entirely isolated from the rest of the world of technology. I also hate the cult of Apple. I'm a graphic designer, I've used Apple products in the past, imo they're no better than the high end powerful PC I use now.

[@kellywalker1664]

I learned to hate Apple in the early 00s. They had a magical ability to spirit my files away into another dimension. If I wasn't paying attention to where something was getting saved on a PC, I COULD find the file with a little searching.

[@Unf0rget]

I hesitate to credit Jobs with good instincts on some of these moves. The commadore deal. Is there a universe where jobs sells his company for anything less than becoming filthy rich? He was going to say no unless they were bankrupt AND out of friends to con for investments.

[@shmehfleh3115]

36:11 - The guy running Commodore at the time was Jack Tramiel. He would ultimately be responsible for running both Commodore and Atari into the ground about a decade later. He was every bit the asshole Jobs was, but he had no idea how the computer industry worked, and he refused to learn.

[@Sl1pstreams]

That is an... interesting interpretation. When Jack left Commodore, it was at its peak. He was pushed out because the financier who'd taken a big stake in the company he founded didn't like that Jack was demanding he stop spending company money like it was his own. Commodore's success was mostly a Jack thing. He bought Atari after being pushed out of Commodore. When he stepped in, Atari was losing $2 million a day and 90 days from bankruptcy. He downsized it, launched the ST computer in 1985, and rescued the company. When Commodore went under in 1994, Jack hadn't been working there for a decade. Without Jack, Commodore never would have been a major computer maker. And without Jack, Atari would have disappeared in 1984 rather than 1996.

[@RinnovaRaine]

It's so sad that we've had two biopics of Steve Jobs with Woz as a side character when Woz should have a biopic of his own. Especially if he helped to create it because it would lack the ego and bullshit a Steve Jobs pic has. Hell, a Woz biopic created with his help might be one of the modern day's few movies where "based on a true story" would actually be mostly or completely true.

[@-user_redacted-]

For real. Jobs should be a side character/villain at most.

[@justinwatson1510]

I think he would have called the company Dharma or Nirvana.

[@marocat4749]

Sutra?!

[@ScrawnyTreeDemon]

Karma?!

[@justinwatson1510]

I dunno; I was just thinking about his stupid belief that he had created some new kind of capitalism combined with how pretentious he is, and I couldn't think of anything more pretentious than the words that mean the eternal, inherent nature of reality or being liberated from the cycle of death and rebirth.

[@taxirob2248]

And then Nirvana would have been called Apple. TWIST!

[@StickWithTrigger]

Lmao the company in Lost was called Dharma

[@direktive4]

fake it til someone else makes it

[@agent74113]

listening to how he treats his daughter makes me want to adopt her, despite her being at least a decade older than me lol.

[@raycearcher5794]

I bet Saddam smelled like an old school head shop, just an enchanting, overpowering scent of patchouli and new t-shirt starch

[@taxirob2248]

probably cumin not patchouli

[@billmozart7288]

Wait, Woz made Breakout!? Awesome

[@some_random_loser]

like, the utter bastardry, the easy betrayals, the pretension, the venal cowardice, all of that, I'm not surprised by. what I'm still amazed by was the fact was that he was a stinky goblin man whose repertoire of emotional manipulation included crying when in conflict with people who he could not intimidate or threaten... like, when confronted by the fact that he was a conman who was exploiting his best friend by the father of said best friend, good tactic was to... cry and make his best friend feel _sorry_ for him. geez

[@emexdizzy]

Calling him a "stinky goblin man" is an insult to goblins, goblins don't break down crying to try to make you feel bad while they rip you off, even goblins have the integrity not to do that.

[@kellywalker1664]

Yeah he's starting to remind me of Perry Smith from Capote's In Cold Blood.

[@VeronicaHSong]

1. This was fascinating, and also very good for anyone who wants to work on their gag reflex. 2. I'm definitely reading his daughter's book, she sounds like a brave survivor. 3. This could be just me, but I feel like we haven't had one about Elon in a really long time, and I really need to always be reminded of how much I hate the man, for both my personal needs and for making good, knowledge - based arguments when I get into fights with his little fan boys. 4. I hate Ashton Kutcher so much. I believe that even though he's young and still around, he could easily fill a couple of episodes with his repulsiveness, even before supporting his serial r@pist bestie. I mean, a young woman was murdered because of his lies. For your consideration. Great times as always, Veronica

[@ScrawnyTreeDemon]

Steve Jobs: the first and only man to utilise the profane art of White Woman Tears™

[@wendynerd1199]

Ehhhhh.... You should have met my ex. And my friend's ex. Both were full of tears when they got caught cheating, lying, or saying something stupid.

[@ScrawnyTreeDemon]

@@wendynerd1199The second and third men to utilise the profane art of White Tears™ Right in the history books with Steven Paul Jobs!! Wow! (Seriously though, gross. Hope you and your friend are doing better now.)

[@wesb1931]

By what I’m hearing, it sounds like apples early success and the start of jobs’ fortune happens in spite of him rather because of his genius. Waz made him his first quarter billion.

[@chaosjoey123]

I'm just listening to this and thinking "A chunk of the population mourned this mans death?"

[@marocat4749]

Jobs even had an early partner that he took credit for his work from the design and name, damn. And he was so chill that he even said, nah wouldnt have been worth it. additional over being a bad friend to a chill dud like woz.

[@ballistics343]

Literally just finished recapping this for my fiance 😂

[@Virjunior01]

Well done getting an SO who's into learning rather than willful ignorance and vapid shit.

[@silverphoenix4934]

​@@Virjunior01😂😂ayo?

[@Virjunior01]

@@silverphoenix4934 meowow?

[@perhaps1094]

​@@Virjunior01Weirdo

[@lukelee7967]

How would I explain it to that kid? "Your dad's a shitty person girl, don't be like him, treat people well". Maybe I shouldn't be allowed to talk to children.

[@taxirob2248]

too late for Mkhaila Peterson

[@mattgilbert7347]

Ok I feel waaaaay better about myself. It seems like Jobs had a pretty high level of cognitive empathy but ZERO affective/emotional empathy.

[@jeepspeedracer]

I heard the story that Wozniack was so secular oblivious of religion and liked repeating numbers that he picked 666.66 because 777.77 or something would be slightly to expensive.

[@kellywalker1664]

He'd be naming a major social media platform "X" right now.

[@puttiplush]

Two Buckaroo Banzai refs in a row!! Great days for 8th dimension fans.

[@mrt.7146]

01:02:09 - Awesome of Woz 🤩🤩🤩

[@Virjunior01]

I'm a late bloomer, pretty shitty, but at heart not a bastard. That said, I DID try crying as a grown man to completely diffuse something that was my fault as a grown man and it absolutely worked. Once it was over, just stop acting, stop pulling from the totally unrelated emotions, wipe the tears. And i never did it again. I chalked it up to thinking on my feet... not making it a goddamned grift.

[@marocat4749]

Yep, its a thing to try getting sympathy for pity to get out of something. Thats human. And like move on to probably learn from it hopefully and grow still hopefully not doing the same? Not crocodile tears as grift??? Thats pretty disgusting. like try using that in a tough spot or as grift is entirely different, and deflecting emotional, is human, making it your presonality forever is terrible thou

[@MrGksarathy]

I have done similar shit throughout my life, but I never liked using my emotions to manipulate people.

[@leslietaylor1396]

EST mantra: "Nothing succeeds like the appearance of authenticity."

[@jeffnicholas6342]

There is a 1999 TV movie called ‘Pirates of Silicon Valley’ that tells the story of Apple and Microsoft. It’s surprisingly good for the budget

[@CynthiaMcG]

I remember going to a Macworld Expo on the West Coast just around the time that it was announced that Gil Amelio was leaving and Jobs was returning to the helm of Apple. There were these godawful banners with a cultish image of Jobs' face. I suspect that Jobs agreed to Amelio taking over in the first place because he knew what a horrible CEO Amelio would be for Apple. Not that Jobs was any better, of course. But it was the appearance that Jobs would be better by comparison that was important to the narrative.

[@Blackhawkk13]

It's a crime that the guest didn't get a laugh for "DonglePilled" at 34:53

[@mkvenner2]

The thing that separates Jobs from the other tech entrepreneurs that try to mimic him is that he is capable of introspection and can recognize that he is a bastard.

[@dart5340]

Well not anymore

[@andrewpereira9271]

The self-awareness of knowing you're a royal asshole is kinda refreshing. But if you're not gonna try to be less of an asshole, it's pretty useless.

[@shmehfleh3115]

If Jobs had any self-awareness, he wouldn't have died from the world's most curable cancer.

[@elfpi55-bigB0O85]

apple paid chatGPT to make this comment

[@pendragonchen]

Coding software by hand and writing all the code on paper is hellish. An ancient professor of mine made a class do this for a whole quarter, and it was some of the most frustrating work I've ever done. Half the class dropped out. Woz had some grit.

[@Murcuryzgirl]

I think it's giving him too much credit to say that wanting to streamline and reduce modifiability was prescient. That that model works for Apple now is entirely dependant on being an established brand. People have to want Apple because it's Apple before you can sell them all the adapters required to make Apple work.

[@すどにむ]

30:05 Digital circuit can be done much more like an app, things work out just like calling functions and setting variables. Analog gets more like adding up math formulas, or if I'd use worse analogy it's like debating and singing. Power circuits are perhaps like piano, if you're a flute player and knew nothing about pianos that's weird, but a lot of highschool debate contest winners are going to be horrible pianists and that's the kind of the divide

[@russianbot8576]

as someone who has problems showering because health, i was a little bewildered that jobs, despite his very disordered eating style of veganism, was _notably_ a fucking stinkball, just the biggest waft of stinker. being vegan usually really cuts down on body odour and i can't imagine what would be said if he was a heavy meat eater with meat sweats on top. anyway, with the health complications that come with showering (fainting due to blood circulation/vascular opening up and potential drowning as a result) i have a lot of experience with this issue-i'm also vegan which helps a lot. people around me still sit close and give hugs and invite me to their homes so i must do something right. but one thing that isn't mentioned is, steve jobs had like _an outfit_ he wore a lot, a particular dress code he insisted on dressing like. you can pull a lot off by using layers to suppress sweat odour and shit, but you absolutely need to change those (esp base) layers frequently-with clean swaps ofc. think about how many times you can wear a coat between washes but how few you wear a bra, undershirt, underpants, 'linen' type layers. bras may be an exception here (due to cost limitations, and a camisole or other base layer can do a lot of the lifting allowing folks to squeeze out a couple extra wears). i'm autistic as well, so a lot of my mental energy has to prioritise the tedious and slower process of sponge bathing (which is also a painfully _cold_ way to clean oneself...), or making sure to change my clothes frequently and how. i often opt for the latter. clean clothes make a massive difference, a _crucial_ difference. no showering can save someone who immediately jumps right back into the dirty outfit they wore before. so yeah i totally believe steve 'iconic outfit' jobs fucking smelled like horseshit.

[@Sarcasmhime]

This is actually a method of keeping clean that they used in Tudor times; at the time they believed that immersing yourself in water was unhealthy and spread plague, so they'd just do a wipedown and change their linen underthings as frequently as possible.

[@emexdizzy]

I'm disabled, too, and I hate being smelly, even though showers become impossible because standing in the steamy enclosed space of the shower would leaving me unable to catch my breath. I eventually got a shower stool so I can sit when I shower. Thing's fucking amazing, I no longer fear falling/fainting during shower. Another thing I learned for when I'm too tired to handle the showering process is to handle body odor with a combo of spray-on mineral deodorant and a spritz bottle of rubbing alcohol. You do the alcohol first to kill the odor-causing bacteria, then you scrub with wet washcloth to wipe the smell away, then you apply the mineral deodorant to stop the bacteria growing back. Works great, lets me be un-stinky for 3-4 days between showers and keeps my clothes from getting stinky quickly.

[@TheWonkster]

Vegans don't have less body odor at all, it's just a different smell. It's still pretty offensive, though.

[@emexdizzy]

@user-yq3jg9kr3t they're also just super nifty to have for first aid and stuff

[@done.6191]

37:50 ....So Steve Jobs was a Jerry, basically?

[@JD3Gamer]

The way the Apple 2 implemented color graphics is truly ingenious.

[@TVAVStudios]

It's impressive but not too surprising that Steve Jobs is, to my knowledge, the first subject of this show about whom the guest's takeaway is "cancer was too good for him!"

[@AkiVainio]

So, when are the BtB fragrances coming out?

[@oceandark3044]

Steve Wozniak is truly the Nikola Tesla of our era...

[@GreenhatMatt0]

Michael Scott's office Always made dunder Mifflin a profit, and no one quit .

[@NealBauer]

Noah Bushnell? I think that's the guy behind Cosmic Ark and not Atari.

[@JD3Gamer]

Pretty sure the Apple 1 was $666.66 because of Woz. He’s a nerd and likes repeating numbers.

[@spiritualanarchist8162]

The few people I know that have become filthy rich also didn't share profits and lied about how much money we made as kids . They also aren't able to make real friends . Must be coincidence ;)

[@DeusExCanis]

I've heard bits and pieces of these stories over the years. I never bought the hype, sometimes cynicism works.

[@nishakumaravel5884]

Please please make an episode on Holt on Cool People Doing Cool Things!

[@RexytheRexy]

The way he treated the mother of his child and the little one herself... that Time magazine article... this man reset the standard for being a f**king scumbag. That's cruelty to the power of cruelty.

[@Kylefassbinderful]

Nolan Bushnell I believe

[@Virjunior01]

One of those cases where it would have been better if dude had never been born. He hijacked history

[@lukemccann8930]

It's a little crazy how opposite Wozniak is to Jobs.

[@shmehfleh3115]

Nolan Bushnell. The dude's name is Nolan Bushnell.

[@Vladimirwlr1234]

I can't believe how upsetting the Steve Jobs episode is even after listening to the goat balls episode.

[@JesseMaurais]

WTF happened a 29:46 ?

[@leslietaylor1396]

Apropos of your recently deleted podcasts, it is believed by many that Jobs was involved in EST.

[@EffigyOfCorrectOpinions]

TITO MENTIONED

[@dakinayantv3245]

Stinkard. Steve Jobs glommed on to other people and their work.

[@ianporter2446]

Woz is the fuckin man

[@joshuamarx8209]

This is all inevitable manifest of Capitalism. Nothing to see here.

[@majuuorthrus3340]

That shitty first logo would NOT render well on an old monitor, lemme tell you that.

[@rorz999]

Good content/subject matter, but did the American guy have to shout his way through this!? Made it hard to listen to

[@GreenhatMatt0]

Are the McAlberts bastards with a capital B ?

[@scottrobinson6682]

👍

[@peterpodgorski]

Every time I hear people complain about dongles I'm like... what do you people DO with those laptops...? Why do you need those ports? Especially in 2024. Seriously, I need to know.

[@direktive4]

alphaville

[@Wungolioth]

I would bet spider hole Saddam did not smell good.

[@robertmccarthy2254]

what's with all crying?

[@howwitty]

DNA evidence is circumstantial by definition.

[@Southboundpachyderm]

bring vaush on.

[@dhatfield8411]

Knock it off, he said to stop doing this sh**.

[@Southboundpachyderm]

@@dhatfield8411 stop doing what shit?

[@marocat4749]

Thats not even condemning vaush but he is pretty impossible to partner up with on a podcast for a lot reasons. Also he is a biit hyperbolic and i dont know if that mixes

[@leitmotif7268]

Pretty sure Robert and Sophie are better at picking guests for their podcast than a bunch of parasocial strangers on the internet. And Vaush isn’t anyone doing anything of relevance to Cool Zone media that’s worth being featured.

[@Southboundpachyderm]

@@leitmotif7268 lol as you make a parasocial claim. Gl homie.