Part One: The Terrible Secret of Steve Jobs | BEHIND THE BASTARDS

[@JD3Gamer]

As someone who grew up as an Apple fan and Steve Jobs fan I’m ecstatic that you are talking about him. Part of growing up is realizing your heroes are pieces of shit.

[@paulseaver8149]

Same hear

[@Dr170]

Another part is growing wise enough to realize all people have inherent flaws and you yourself are unlikely to be some bastion of moral constancy. Concordantly, it pays to have a nuanced view as to what separates a Flawed Person from a Bastard. That being said... fuck Jobs.

[@shingshongshamalama]

Capitalists are terrible heroes to begin with. To win at capitalism, you have to be evil.

[@descendantofartorias2067]

I managed to get lucky in that department none of my heroes are imo

[@paulseaver8149]

i was unlucky in that sense another one was Obama @@descendantofartorias2067

[@hypercube8735]

If you want an accurate movie about Steve Jobs, you want Pirates of Silicon Valley. Wozniak himself says it was accurate.

[@davidrobertson4332]

Great cable tv movie I have it on dvd saw it the night it came out

[@peggyfranzen6159]

Yeah, Wozniak was a real geek, low key, cool and an electronic genius! 😮

[@IneaCylean]

That was such a good movie :o I first watched it in my highschool intro to programming class and have since watched it like another 10 times. Dude comes across like a troubled sociopath instead of some visionary genius. I think I'll rewatch it tonight

[@BongRippingRiffLover51]

Funny thing is Jobs hated it (gee...I wonder why!) and wouldn't even acknowledge the director. He said he liked Noah Wyle in it though, because he looked the part.

[@hypercube8735]

@@IneaCyleanI also first saw it in a high school programming class.

[@SavageGreywolf]

Pretty much anyone that's met Woz describes him as if he's a golden retriever that happens to also be a tech genius. How Jobs treated a man like that qualifies him for this podcast alone.

[@seanhall8686]

The childhood "pranks" remind me of stories about John Carmack, who used thermite to steal a computer from his school. I guess this type of thing is common in the tech world.

[@ProfessorOtakuD2]

Common with folks in the 70s with undiagnosed social disability, at the least

[@Aryasvitkona]

Also Oppenheimer literally trying to fucking poison his science teacher. Idk I think that generation just was fucking unhinged

[@magpieMOB]

The way that Robert delivered: "Listen folks; I'm not a psychiatrist, but I feel confident in saying: [gas emission from decaying dietary mucus] is not what causes mental illness" Makes me wish y'all could have Heath McIvor/Randy Feltface on for an episode on Australian atrocities or just historic fuckboys, I feel like the vibe would be great

[@spiritualanarchist8162]

If someone told me as a kid : 'Your real parents are multi miljonairs, but they gave you to a mechanic ' I would be crying as well ;)

[@homerco213]

Socialize the cost, privatize the benefit.

[@zachthompson9976]

The American way! Greatest country on earth! 🙄

[@Sauvenil]

You forgot "legislate the competition" too.

[@Iwuznothere]

So what you're telling me is that a real Steve Jobs biopic is just him weeping at any resistance like a spoiled manchild. Pauly Shore could be the perfect Steve Jobs.

[@NotoriousLightning]

Or Kristian Valen.

[@SuperSmashDolls]

There are, precisely, two kinds of famous / outspoken tech people: - Just nice guys that like fucking around with electronics - Cult leaders that probably would have seized control of the US government by now but for the fact that tech is distracting them - Richard Stallman, a cult leader whose cult is predicated around forcing everyone including himself to be just nice guys that like fucking around with electronics

[@cannedCPU]

All hail St. IGNUcius! May He bless our computers!

[@Desmaad]

I wouldn't exactly call Stallman nice; more like self-righteous, childish, and incredibly socially inept.

[@cannedCPU]

@@Desmaad Yeah, he's also got some really disgusting opinions, but we need someone like him (and the FSF) to keep the industry in check and put their foot down regarding proprietary software and privacy. It doesn't mean we have to 100% follow their example and use a librebooted laptop from the early 2000s with a completely free OS, and no proprietary binary blobs, but at least I do try to mostly use free software when I can. I have Fedora and Pop OS on my laptop, but both are running proprietary drivers, and I use IntelliJ Ultimate for my work, which has proprietary components

[@Desmaad]

@@cannedCPU Regardless, his movement needs better spokespeople; no-one wants to join a movement led by a creep, no matter how valid it is.

[@SuperSmashDolls]

@@DesmaadI thought that was already implied by me calling him a cult leader

[@gregmark1688]

I was just looking at the early Palo Alto research that the Mac was evolved out of, and I was impressed with what _wasn't_ there, that the Mac introduced: PARC did not have windows, or a desktop, or close buttons, or a menu bar, or many other things. One thing Palo Alto definitely HAD introduced already in 1980: fonts.

[@Nothingseen]

I'm glad someone is finally talking about this. Steve Jobs? Bad.

[@CliffSedge-nu5fv]

So much bad.

[@wordart_guian]

"finally"? I really thought everyone knew everything in that vid. Well ok i read the isaacson book but still i'm surprised this would be news to anyone

[@SesshyLover777]

This made me laugh on my way to work tyty

[@Nothingseen]

@@wordart_guian No, that he ruined the world.

[@bfish89ryuhayabusa]

​@@wordart_guian there's still so much worship for Jobs. Many people have come around to seeing the problems with Gates, but not so much Jobs.

[@laserspaceninja]

Steve Jobs was truly a master of a bastard. Just glad he got into computers and not politics. Imagine a universe with that version of a Stevie J. Yikes!

[@bk83082]

Because if that happened, our political landscape would be... what? Not cool and awesome like it is now?

[@sp123]

Steve Jobs was right about kids staying in school until 7 PM so they have more time to study and do homework.

[@marocat4749]

Imagine he went into pyrotechnic. andhe would be a terrible gweneth patrow :(

[@laserspaceninja]

@@bk83082I imagine it being a hell of a lot more authoritarian than it is. Steve was a master manipulator and a major control freak. He gets the wrong idea in his head that somehow makes sense to him and he would try to give us what he thinks we want.

[@laserspaceninja]

@@sp123I disagree--children need that time to explore and play. Steve was wrong on that one. I think children would benefit from a society where capitalists such as Steve would keep there noses out of education. They are ruining it enough as it is. Capitalists are great are efficiency and squeezing as much money out of resources. Children are not either of these things. I feel like their quality of life would decrease from such a move.

[@sholem_bond]

I don't think it's the lack of punishment necessarily, but I do think it's maybe his parents not treating the situation (getting kicked out of first grade) with the gravity it deserves. If my kid was having behavioral problems like that, at a certain point it's not a question of "punishment" (although "you're grounded for 2 weeks/a month with no TV" should definitely have been one of the parenting tools tried), it's a question of "why does my kid keep engaging in this behavior even though he keeps getting in trouble for it/keeps getting punished by the school for it?" Because at that point it starts to look less like a kid making bad choices, and more like a kid who's either compulsively driven to misbehave; or like a kid who is fundamentally not grasping his actions having consequences and maybe not learning how to anticipate what those consequences will be, at least not to the same extent as other kids his age can. In either case, punishment doesn't help; that kid needs some kind of therapy. Whether you punish the kid in this equation or not, I think it's really important to communicate to the kid, consistently and clearly, that their behavior is a big problem here, because kids take their cue from their parents. If you act like it's the school's fault and not the kid's fault (or the fault of the kid's behavior, at least), that kid might believe you, especially if they're already predisposed toward egotism (as it seems like Jobs may have been). Honestly Jobs really needed to learn/be taught from a young age that other people are basically just like him (that when they're in pain it feels just as bad to them as it does to him when he's in pain; other people are just as real and cosmically important as he is; they are often good at things that he's maybe not good at; etc). In addition to a lot more community service or something similar, maybe trying to get him to read more would help? Especially more sociology, anthropology, history, primary sources, and memoirs (?) so that he could maybe learn to recognize parts of himself in people from the past/other humans? (Although given that a lot of history tends to focus too often on "great men" who are presented as implicitly more important than everyone else, maybe that wouldn't have helped either.)

[@sholem_bond]

I generally dislike armchair diagnosis or casually throwing around diagnostic labels, because a lot of people who only know the labels from their pop culture presentation tend to misunderstand them in pretty ableist ways. That said, I wonder if Steve Jobs was what we sometimes call a "sociopath" or "psychopath"? He seemed to have the delusions of grandeur and the egotism/self-centered-ness with which they're associated, but his childhood behavioral issues also suggests to me that he had a hard time anticipating the potential negative outcomes of his actions, even compared to other kids his age, which is something (I've read) with which people with psychopathy/people with ASPD can have a lot of difficulty. Maybe more so than a lack of guilt, which many of them do seem to experience (contrary to the popular understanding of the conditions)? It could have been that Jobs had a really strong genetic predisposition for a condition like this, or it could have been that the first six months of his life caused him enough stress that it triggered this in his brain. Or both, potentially. Humans are obviously resilient when it comes to survival and psychological development/overall outcomes, but it's also easy for things that happen to us early in life to affect our development later on.

[@standdownrobots_ihaveoldglory]

I agree with much said here, but I am not sure about the community service or reading lists. A lot more mental health services would have been very, very good, the younger the better. But yeah, I think it's reasonable to consider sociopathy or anti-social PD, which is incredibly rare and therapists don't really look for it. Even if that is the case, therapy can help a great deal. I do not recommend with experimenting with community service as a therapeutic tool. It does work wonders in the right setting, but you have to be really careful putting people with behavioral issues in situations where they could harm other people or animals, and it cannot give them a sense of superiority, so they're pretty much going to be picking up trash, which isn't transformative in any way. But you don't let a disturbed child "help" other people, they can end up just gathering 'evidence' of their own superiority. With reading, it's just hard to force them to get a certain point, and that could go so very, very wrong. People who are very strong outliers (whether they are exceptional mentally, physically, etc) are always going to be difficult to treat, since their "normal" is still going to be very different. Even if they do all the work, and get themselves healthy, their average state of existence is still not quite meshing with society around them. They do the most harm and the most good. I'm not sure there's much to be done outside of regulation & economic controls that protect society from the fact that businesses will kill/maim/destroy a lot of lives if unrestrained. You don't need an outlier human for that, most companies will turn actively evil-for-profit if they make enough money, groupthink is even more dangerous than the 'paths.

[@PhilosophyForTheMops]

@@sholem_bond Sounds like hefty dose of good old narcissism if you ask me(almost always the cas on this show). It´s a spectrum, we all got "it" to some extent, but few got it bad enough to qualify as a disability.

[@randalalansmith9883]

This is amazing. I was in all the same health food cults and went extremely orthorexic. But I never founded Apple.

[@thelastholdout]

Slight correction on the Atari story: as far as I understand it, the game that Wozniak designed the new board for was Breakout. Also, apparently the new design was so compact and efficient that Atari *literally didn't have the factory tooling available yet to make it.* Woz literally designed a board that was literally ahead of its time, and he just kind of did it because it was a fun thing for him to do.

[@SgtKaneGunlock]

Rom from DS9 comes to mind all of a sudden

[@rhanemann9100]

Literally?

[@thelastholdout]

@@rhanemann9100 Literally.

[@anonihme5142]

listening to this, contemplating a 10 hour train ride where i can't charge my phone while listening to it because some designer in apple thought the iphone would be more beautiful without a mini jack socket... I hate them with a passion

[@alanmacdonald1457]

isnt there an adapter to use 2 at once?

[@jorymo4964]

Funny they mentioned his interest in typefaces! "Font" used to just refer to the size, weight, and slant of letters in a typeface. Nowadays, most people use the word "font" as a synonym for "typeface," largely because Steve Jobs had them named like that on Mac computers!

[@Alex.R.L]

Neat. Homestead high-school mentioned. I spent most of my time in high-school beating them at marching band. ... but after I graduated, they started winning more and more. I sat next to a Homestead guy in college band. Good times, good times.

[@GustavAschenbach-s6j]

Suddenly struck by how the relationship between yesteryear's computer building from scratch and today's kit building mirrors the journey from desktop tinkering you used to have to do in the 00s to today's sleek app-only interfaces. Computing is getting less ...craftsy? Hands on? DIY? Hmm

[@MrJohndoakes]

Yes, it's far less DIY, you see a lot less soldering/breadboarding and far more programming.

[@anonihme5142]

try telling that to my buddy on arch linux :-)

[@liger04]

If I remember correctly, college-level computer courses were originally art classes. Math-heavy, sure, but the it was more focused on stuff like splines and animation-- creating unique styles and graphics with what little memory and CPU power you had. Then the market adapted to corporations trying to hire people that precisely match a rubric and schools were incentivized to produce identical copies of the same programming-literate office drone. Source: had an old lecturer in college pining for the Old Days where it was an art while docking points if we used too many or too few comments in our code.

[@connerblank5069]

Point of order, auditing classes is a very normal thing that most colleges do. Pretty sure you usually don't even have to be a student, in most places.

[@Melggart]

Of all the tech founders, I think Bill Gates was the most "normal" in a way. He really did the work, was a competent administrator and didn't backstab too much his early colleagues. But he also lead Microsoft in avoiding taxes extra hard and was such a close friend with Epstein that his wife divorced him. His charity is also a mixed bag in my opinion. I was never a fan of Jobs, but as I was of Gates that doesn't mean I have a good sense for people.

[@Chloe-dv9ns]

Really wanted to see where your comment was going and my guy concludes with his judge of character being no good 😭 I'm absolutely in that boat though. Now i just assume if someone has accumulated that much wealth: they are most definitely vile in some way

[@Melggart]

@@Chloe-dv9ns I get you. "Is this guy talking about Bill Gates being a good person in THIS comment section?"

[@GuerillaBunny]

"Normal" is such a weird metric though. Like remember when he bought the patents for Covid-vaccines so that they could not be given for free, even in Third world countries? His idea of charity is inseparable from his intent to establish a profitable market for the product used in aid. Is that normal? Sure, if you compare it to some degenerates. But is it non-deranged? You tell me. And if my memory serves, he also manipulated his female employees. Can't remember if that was during his marriage to Melinda. I think I need to re-listen to the Bill Gates episode...

[@SuperSmashDolls]

You're also forgetting the whole "use his influence in medical research to kill the Biden administration's plan to march in on COVID-19 vaccine patents" thing. Bill Gates' biggest crime is the same as Walt Disney's: maximizing copyright and patent laws to the point of absurdity, the unintended consequences be damned.

[@MrJohndoakes]

Gates pretty much robbed the writer of 86-DOS (Tim Paterson) blind.

[@james_chatman]

Narcissists never admit to their core sense of worthlessness.

[@dogearflopper7011]

"NYPD Performs Dance at Public Library, 268 Dead, At Least 600 Injured"

[@fredericksmith7942]

And the number of injured is underreported.

[@deyeaus]

23:46 our high school chemistry teacher in the late 80's lammented not being able to teach us how to make touch powder due to a prank involving the principal's car accellerator pedal.

[@Aryasvitkona]

My high school chemistry teacher patently refused to teach us any explosive or even really flammable stuff. She did teach us that apple seeds and almond seeds have fucking hydrogen cyanide in them though so I'm not entirely sure where her ethics compass points. My physics teacher however, in a way I'm glad he didn't have access to the Chem lab because he talked quite gleefully about blowing up mice and making them passengers on mini rockets. He absolutely would have shown us how to make bombs but just with a finger on his lips. Luckily cos he was so fucking psychotic we got to have a lot of really interesting conversations in class about various aspects of physics like time travel, spacial warping, potential evolution of humans in the future and of extraterrestrials, and artificial gravity. Cool guy, I miss him

[@HeavyMetalPootis]

Steve Jobs sure sounds like these frustrating as hell sales/marketing people that have no concept in how long shit takes to get done.

[@fett01]

My only knowledge of Steve Jobs was the TNT TV movie Pirates of Silicon Valley. It didn't leave a good impression.

[@Tha_Pencil]

I love this podcast... So much

[@BehindTheBastards]

Keep listening!

[@Kylefassbinderful]

I’ve heard people say that his time in a calligraphy class is what prompted him to give the Mac different typefaces or fonts as they’re called but I think it makes more sense that they were trying to emulate the different type balls in an IBM Selectric typewriter. Maybe this was never said because at the time you would never catch Apple giving credit to IBM.

[@AlteredGoat]

Shoutout to the animated sci-fi drama series Pantheon for basically having Steve Jobs as the main villain of the show along with his cult of followers

[@Im-the-greatest]

Hi robert! I have recently come to see the love of the emperor. As an Oregonian i hope to see you in battle. The Emperor protects.

[@Kestra84]

Ah, the "everyone had a pocket knife" era of American education. I used to carry one around and loosen screws on things if I was feeling bored and nihilistic enough that day. Teenagers shouldn't be allowed to own pocket knives, or anything else really.

[@pandoragoldspan7012]

Jobs reading Autobiography of a Yogi religiously and still acting like Indian people never learn science is insane because there's literally a part of autobiography of a yogi about Yoginanda MEETING an influential indian scientist

[@seanhall8686]

"We are Behind the Bastards. We are here to protect you. We are here to protect you from the terrible secret of Steve Jobs."

[@rileyosteen6470]

Haven’t watched this yet but i imagine his terrible secret was he really liked polka

[@standdownrobots_ihaveoldglory]

Polka is the best! I miss the people from the Old Country who would just light up like they were back home when they heard that accordion! We used to have a Polka Fest here, but it's gone now that the homesteaders are all gone too. And now we'll get new immigrants and new music!

[@hellbreakfast]

"Woz was the son of a Lockheed Engineer and was naturally good at-" No. He wasn't naturally good at shit, he was fucking exposed to a technologically proficient father that encouraged him to tech, under ideal circumstances in which he had access to good education, housing, food and the tech itself, as well as the extra money to toy around with said tech enough to get good at it. There is no naturally there, there is time and place. If one thing had been different, he'd have never ended up doing shit. If he'd been born female, for example, would his family have supported his interest in electronics? Likely not as strongly.

[@sd-ch2cq]

2 things can be true: he can have inherited the nerd-gene from his nerd-father _and_ have access to technology that most children didn't have.

[@marocat4749]

The first stuff he sells with woz is pretty interesting, woz just wants to use it himself in a respectable way and job, wants to sell it. I think that tells a lot about their characters, woz being more a tech nerd that might explore ther , but harmless , and jobs, selling it. Oh god, thats basically the breaking bad of the tech industry, poor jesse, i mean waz. And india has a pretty big tech industry

[@captainoftheneverdie21]

When you come to realize just how little you knew Steve Jobs was a bastard. Like, I heard some stories but wow... wow

[@klutterkicker]

When I started this video I thought I knew very little about Steve Jobs, and my goodness was I right.

[@wellurafastizio]

Someone just reminded me of the existence of David 'Avacado' Wolf, and I bet Robert would make a great episode out of that assholes shenanigans

[@christophermiller2075]

I want a Well There’s Your Problem/Behind The Bastards crossover please

[@bfish89ryuhayabusa]

For Jobs' betrayal of Woz at Atari, they were working on Breakout, which is why it was consistently on Apple platforms from the beginning. Atari knew Jobs had Woz help him regularly on things, and so they gave Jobs the task to design a board with as few processors as possible because they knew Woz would help him, and the amount without the bonus was clearly meant for two people, bit my understanding is that Atari didn't acknowledge at the time that they expected Woz to help. Very indirect.q

[@SnackFoodCentral]

I knew the dude was privileged but what the actual fuck

[@moodledoodle4861]

I'm hoping there is at least one story involving Jobs and Jack Parsons in the same social space.

[@packman2321]

Honestly, as someone who has actually studied Indian logical traditions, hearing Jobs talk about it is hilarious. My dude, they have literal logician schools that are centuries older than Plato! Half of their entire deal is arguing about what methods for collecting information can be deemed to give valid information and why (I promise, intuition is rarely one of them,though some will allow 'revelation' or 'testimony from a valid source [gods count as a valid source by definition]''). They may not have the law of the excluded middle, but I promise you, logic and reasoning are important to a whole host of Indian scholars in a way more thorough than you can possibly imagine. On a more serious note, it's a bit depressing that some really cool scholarly and religious debates that are essential to inspiring thinkers the whole world over get completely overlooked by world views that insist that Indian scholarship is somehow 'other', either more enlightened or irrelevant to western thought, rather than what it is, a complex collection of debates and historical movements that is always in conversation both with itself and with everyone around it, and gets taken into European discourse multiple times through the Ancient Greeks, through Imperialist violence and through archeology, translation and ongoing traditions that still aren't taken seriously (though which I admittedly know less about. My two lacunae of knowledge are in the 8th century BC and in the 19th century, because there's too much going on to know everything!)

[@darylexmachina7079]

I liked the "Palo Alto Qaeda" zinger from Ed at 25:02

[@waywardscythe3358]

Did you know that $285 B (the amount of offshore cash apple has) is enough to build a Ford class carrier, 75 F-18s, 5 Ticonderoga class cruisers, and an attack sub? Theres even enough money left over to equip and operate that fleet a year nonstop, and to invent nuclear weapons from scratch.

[@Aryasvitkona]

You can invent nuclear weapons for very cheap if you just steal fissile material from a US Uranium Processing Plant like Israel did in the 60s!

[@prestonandcats9745]

entire company exists because of government handouts

[@Chloe-dv9ns]

The list goes on: so many companies should be nationalized bc they straight up wouldn't exist without the people.

[@Aryasvitkona]

Did you mean: literally every major US and most foreign companies? If not from explicit handouts, from weird and uber specific tax breaks

[@candaceprather8434]

Printmakersand typesetters have been quite aware of font for...centuries? Go big Steve.

[@jeffkleist9679]

as someone who was literally a neighbor to Commodore, and whose School inherited one of their engineers who needed a job, I am intimately familiar with the goings on at Commodore. They had a lot of issues that weren't shade. Their problem was that the only place they were successful is Europe in a nutshell. I've actually played prototypes of their game system the Amiga32. It's important also remember that Commodore revolutionized video post long before premiere or Final Cut Pro

[@katarjin]

Apple cult members are going to not like this one.

[@MrJohndoakes]

Hardest-core Apple people don't like to be reminded of the Apple Lisa or the Apple III (look those up if you don't know), but reality has to dribble past the rose-colored glasses somehow.

[@McBlazington]

35:05 As a tech person, no. This is accurate, and I'm not mad.

[@rhanemann9100]

I once worked for a famous person in a capacity where I traveled with him. He was a former alcoholic/drug abuser who had married a health nut who got him straight. They were big into juicing. Like every meal was some sort of vegetable or fruit juice concoction. I would run into him in hotel gyms and he STUNK.

[@ZakTheRipper18]

iDied, el oh el Space Shuttle Challenger. That's about as much thoughtfulness as he deserves from me.

[@jas1007]

48:00 Sounds like a candidate for a future episode.

[@KaiTenSatsuma]

18:30 - I think there's a little something there, in that what a less narcissstic person might realize is that they're good at pulling together their knowledge and experience in the face of unknown things to get footing compared to people who aren't. But yeah, just because you can hit the ground running, in a manner of speaking, doesn't mean you're automagically better or more talented than someone who actually has worked on the skill.

[@ben5033]

ATS MENTIONED 🎉🎉🎉

[@SkullDixon]

Got to love that Oregon is the place to start your Cult........ You never see them advertise that fact in the tourist brochures.

[@lordofduct]

The thing about coders who think they're smarter than others because they can code... So close to home there for me. I'm a programmer, software engineer, whatever the fuck you wanna call it. I do tech stuff. Have for a very long time and I know a multitude of languages and have worked on a multitude of technologies in the space. And I HATE other programmers. Sorry, I shouldn't say that, I don't hate programmers. I hate the culture around software/tech/etc. This idea that we're so much smarter than others and that we deserve to make a ton of money and that ethics can be brushed to the side for the "coolness" of it all. I hate showing up to work in my Toyota Yaris and my peers jeering me because I don't drive a corvette, mustang, charger, some other sportscar, like they do. The "Libertarian" ideals that pervade my industry... the Ayn Rand worship. Quite literally. Mind you I don't necessarily know West Coast tech world... California may be very different. I went to Cali for 6 months for a tech job and left... I do not like that state. But honestly if my office was emblematic of the west coast tech world then it's not much different. I left the place describing it as "stoner republicans" sitting around chiefin' on a bowl to then blurt out "puff puff... you know what dude? The poor... they sort of deserve it don't they? I mean they should just get a real job." Which is a conversation I've had all over this country (outside of my short stints out west... I've lived all up and down the east coast). My peers making arguments about how if so and so, such and such, were actually smart they would have gone to school for tech like we all did. Clearly they couldn't make it, and so our clearly superior intelligence led us to jobs that pay well. Then I'm the prick who interjects with: "We're all just the plumbers of our generation. This is simple trade work." And nothing against plumbers or electricians or other trades. Important jobs those are. I come from a family of tradesman. Carpenters, plumbers, electricians, farmers, truck drivers, landscapers, etc. I learned to do residential electric and plumbing before I got hair from my father. But that's my point... trades jobs are skills you have to learn. You don't just wake up one morning and do the trades. You have to be taught it, and you have to be taught the codes/standards/safety protocols. But I mean... that's all that programming is too. I can teach anyone to code in a couple months time. I know I can... because I have. I've taught high school dropouts how to code and they now have successful careers. I don't have a college education, I barely graduated high school! I probably would have been expelled if it weren't for a handful of teachers who came to bat for me. Back to my peers in the workplace... "I worked hard to get here!" Did you? Did you really? What you went to school? Was it really that hard? I know people who get their GED in night classes after working 70+ hour work weeks split between Taco Bell and Wal-Mart. You know what you had? A life good enough to have the resources to attend college. And you picked... computers. Because computers are a no brainer in this day and age. It's.... the plumber/electrician of our day. Sure, you had to work at learning it just as anyone does to learn a skill. But genius/smarter this does not make. In the 60s and 70s being a tradesman was a great job that you could raise a family on. Today... programming is that job. Do you make ridiculous money? No... sure if you're the CEO of some big tech company you do. But your regular programmers don't make millions. But they do make 6 figures. You do make enough money to buy a nice car, have a nice home, and if you so deemed it you could raise a family with a single bread winner... I know plenty of guys who do. But they all seem to think they invented the idea of making good money because they're so smart. And the moment you tell them they're just a tradesman in the 21st century they scoff. Tradesman are monkey brained morons. That's what their uneducated fathers do. Nice guy and all... but he's just a boomer stuck in the stone age. He's a caveman, and cavemen aren't smart like us tech bros! ... I don't know... my father was a caveman. And his caveman ass taught me to plumb, run electric, drive tractor trailer, fix cars, bail hay, and a number of other things. That's pretty smart to me. And when he died, and I tripped into programming, I adapted those skills to programming. I didn't go to college, I taught myself in my spare time. And not because I'm some genius... because it's not that hard. It was just plumbing in a different form. Honestly I stuck with it because electric requires crawling through attics, and plumbing requires being bent over under sinks.... programming I get to sit in a sweet ass chair, listen to podcasts, and grind out code. But I don't really hang out with other programmers. I can't stand the sitting around jerking off to oneself because we're the lords of tech and bitching about how everybody else doesn't understand our tech wizardry. Yeah guys? Most of you can't change a fucking light switch. Sorry I'm not bothered my tradesman family sometimes need to call me for tech help. I'll trade them some tech help and beers to hang out and work on my barn. ... And to any other programmers out there thinking "well I'm not like that"... sure, you might not be. But don't tell me you don't know a line of guys in the industry who think they're gods because they know C++ or Rust. I mean hell... programmers lord it over each other let alone non-tech people. We all know these guys. Heck... on some days we might even catch ourselves getting hung up on ourselves if we don't put ourselves in check. Lol, tradesman do the same thing... go check out the sparkies on reddit, they think they're gods gift to the world.

[@qoqqudjashiddjik3487]

LMAOOO "how to weep: weeping the weepy weep way"

[@eoghanstumpz]

I love how this guest makes short, cogent, relevant & pithy comments but let's the episode flow. The BTB guests are always good, talented & interesting people but sometimes the constant interjections are killing the episode. That said love BTB & am long-time fan.

[@collinsobado]

53:47 literally midsommar

[@cybercop0083]

Said Simpson writer married to the actual Mona Simpson is called Richard APPEL. Life is funnier than $h1t.

[@SesshyLover777]

I'm rewatching this and had a thought. Growing up I knew my mom always wanted a daughter. My brothers and I would argue about it (I'm younger than them by quite a bit) but I didn't turn into a Steve Jobs. Generally speaking most people don't call me an asshole behind my back either so 🤷🏼‍♀️ thats a nature one me thinks

[@Woad25]

"Generally speaking most people don't call me an asshole behind my back either" What are you talking about? Yeah we do :)

[@wendigaro438]

Hell yea

[@MaterialMenteNo]

What ruling from what court?

[@trioptimum9027]

30:30 And here I thought pigs LOVED acorns.

[@havanaradio]

Terry loves tech!

[@geofox9484]

2:26 wow very important and relevant reference there What a hole

[@ZarHakkar]

As awful as Steve Jobs was, it's still so sad that he died of Ligma.

[@hammersmashedspud4345]

Finally, someone says hyperbolic the same way I say it

[@adam346]

Wasn't phreaking created by a guy that found he could mimic the tones of the phone system by recording a cap'n crunch whistle played backwards? Hense Cap'n Crunch?

[@paul66766]

John Draper, didn't invent the whistle or phone phreaking, but did invent the Blue Box.

[@adam346]

@@paul66766 ah, so the competition, thanks

[@Chaosqueenngami]

Look, I hate mucous as much as the next person, but I am not ready to die to get rid of it.

[@prodigal_southerner]

Only a human would think that machines trained to think like us could become a god.

[@Dong_Harvey]

I may have once sat next to Marc Andreeson at a bar, playing bar trivia. He cheated and looked over my shoulder.

[@crunchthenumbers]

The 1999 TNT doc movie The Pirates of Silicon Valley is far better

[@oh_riley7104]

Pics or it didn't happen.

[@crunchthenumbers]

​@@oh_riley7104kzbin.info/www/bejne/onbco5ysp890q7csi=VryIcuya5s-ucbax

[@ChewyThomson]

Wrong

[@ChewyThomson]

Just kidding, it's actually pretty good

[@ES-qm5hr]

Is that Ed Zitron, Matt Zitron's little brother?

[@disembowell]

Rich people live in an alien world

[@VCV95]

Sweeeeeeet

[@OneEyedMonkey9000]

Why does Behind The Bastards have a safe as a logo?

[@thomasjackson173]

Bank vault, and their KZbin channel is considered just an old podcast file vault.

[@candacewade220]

Well presented. Not the usual pre-blather of Podcasts.

[@michaelstarratt4868]

Is this secretly the ghoul boys?

[@Nightstalker314]

Steve Jobs: an insufferable human being, a sociopath and a blatant opportunist. Steve Wozniak: the actual genius that is responsible for Apple's early success and Steve Jobs getting any starting ground.

[@mattgilbert7347]

I feel better about myself

[@spartan117ak]

48:30 ah, return to the humours theory I see. too much white bile

[@NoMoreSuperHero]

Steve clearly wasn't bullied enough as a kid holy shit, put down your nerds people!

[@Sds0071]

His secret is that he died of Ligma

[@charlesreid9337]

Windows absolutely did not copy the Mac. Character sets for everything long before the mac existed. Leasing I hate about jobs is that he takes credit for things he absolutely did not do and that Apple did not do. There is absolutely nothing end technology that Jobs invented or is remotely responsible for. Wozniak created the apple and Apple 2. He should be a legend for that. Apple did not invent the smartphone or the tablet. The smartphone existed long before the iPhone. Add hobbyists and engineers were using Dev boards that were literally everything the iPad was and a lot more long before the iPad. And even with the iPhone jobs was an obstacle to the iPhone. They have rent Condit to him opposing his teams creating the iPhone as some genius move till they got it where he wanted it... The reality is he just kept throwing obstacles in their way and it refusing to accept it. I don't have a problem with calling him a sales genius.. the Apple cult exists even now despite mostly having inferior products that cost more.. but his actual reputation is b*******.

[@michaelvandeventer5262]

❤

[@OvercookedOctopusFeet]

Although i like all the information on Steve Jobs' documented actions and interactions he had with others, i think we could do without a lot of the amateur armchair psychoanalysis that goes on in this episode.

[@LTLWrestling]

Genuinely curious, have you listened to the podcast before?

[@peterpodgorski]

Maybe I'm weird but... this is fucking sad

[@whalefsh]

Is this a dead baby episode?

[@Iheartdog666]

Yeah he was a jerk. Knew all this stuff. Glad you’re doing it. I still have a MacBook, iPhone, AirPods, whatever….because it’s unavoidable. You know, there’s no ethical consumption yada yada yada

[@nickrustyson8124]

I mean it's not that unavoidable, buying used doesn't give them a dime

[@Iheartdog666]

@@nickrustyson8124 funny because that’s how I bought most of my apple stuff. Hell all my stuff really.

[@llYossarian]

I was expecting you to sound more like Bob Odenkirk's impression of the famous producer Robert Evans... kzbin.info/www/bejne/bHPGm2RqnZidmdEsi=v-gZECMBcxBU-Okq&t=61

[@PunishedGayMelGibson]

I'm gay

[@karenholmes6565]

I am sickened by this video. Not because Ilike Steve Jobs, not because I think Steve Jobs was a good person. I am sickened because the things that are being criticized about him are things that are related to being on the autism spectrum. His crying isn't because he is a wussy boy. That is such a toxic masculinity and ableist perspective. His crying when he got into conflict with others is because he didn't know how to regulate his emotions, something prevalent with people who have autism. His desire to "control" things, also a frequent problem for autistic people. We need to regulate our environment in order to regulate our emotions. Please, for the love of all that is good in this world, reassess Steve Jobs as an autistic person deserving of compassion and understanding, instead of the ableist drivel. I expect better from this channel. I am not going to listen to another word past that because it is apparent that these people don't understand what the eff they are talking about and their ignorance is harmful to autistic people

[@theangryholmesian4556]

Look I'm saying this as an autistic woman...you're not wrong. Steve Jobs is still a POS.

[@seantracey9935]

Are you a medical professional? Because armchair diagnosis doesn't help anyone.

[@karenholmes6565]

@@seantracey9935 This is an ableist comment. I point out that these dudes were ableist in how they talked about autistic traits and you mouth off with BS about diagnosis. Google Steve Jobs and autism, how people that knew him said he was on the spectrum, how he privately admitted he was, never publicly acknowledged it. Here is why it is important. People mock autistic folks because we can't emotionally regulate very well. What they described in this video sounds like an autistic person that had trouble emotionally regulating. To put it off like he was a whiny baby that was manipulating people by crying is gross, unacceptable. and ableist. As an autistic person that has burst out into tears and found it extremely embarrassing I have a lot of problem with it. It takes very little effort to rethink your approach to toxic masculinity and ablelism. On the other hand, it is hard to go through life with people mocking you, shaming you, and misunderstanding you. This attitude needs to be checked. Learn better, do better, and don't be defensive when an autistic person states how you can accommodate them by improving your knowledge. It isn't too much to ask. Autistic folks have to accommodate you every time they are around you.

[@patrickmcpartland1398]

​​@@karenholmes6565it doesn't really matter why he did those things, as one of the richest men in the world it still makes him a monster. Don't get to abuse people just becuase your autistic, and it's actually pretty ableist to say that autistic peole will all act that way, know a ton of them I got stuck in classes with in the 90s with adhd problems myself, some that were horrificly abused at home, never took it out on others or thought they were the center of the universe. Or are you saying autistic people can't be trusted in positions of leadership becuase they can't control themselfs and we have to handle them with kid gloves AS YOUR BOSS as they treat you like shit? Sorry you have such a low opinion of yourself I guess

[@Iheartdog666]

Is there a possibility that he wasn’t on the spectrum though? I mean, I know people who can’t regulate their emotions because of poor anger management, feelings of entitlement, etc. I’m not saying you’re wrong but with the possibility that you could be, I just think you’re drawing a definitive conclusion here when the only person that can really do that is a professional. Also, we have to remember that poor emotional regulation is not really a good thing. People who possess poor emotional regulation are not necessarily bad people but they are responsible for their behavior still. As is typically said about any kind of psychological issues of this nature: it is an explanation, not an excuse.

[@Katchi_]

I tried. But I will not give my time to the pretentious.