Bellsprout Only - Pokemon Yellow - The best poison-type?

Playthrough Rules:
1. Only my starter in battle
2. No items in battle*
3. No glitches or exploits*
4. No Double-Team TM before level 100*
Other rules:
-- *Pokeballs & Pokedolls are allowed in battle
-- *The badge-boost glitch is not restricted at all
-- *Skipping the Rocket Hideout & Marowak is allowed
-- I play the game at 4x game speed (238 frames per second)
-- My Pokemon has perfect DVs
-- The Trash-Can-Puzzle is automatically solved so times are not affected by RNG
-- The bike is allowed (the bike skip is not)
-- Skipping the bike is not allowed
-- Saving between league members is allowed
-- If the solo Pokemon faints and I choose to blackout it counts towards my reset counter
*Double-Team:
-- Almost every Pokemon can learn Double-Team through TM
-- The TM can be purchased in Celadon
-- Using it would centralize the meta
-- Every Pokemon would use it to overcome tough battles at lower levels
-- It raises evasion
-- It triggers the badge boost
-- Banning the TM allows Pokemon who learn it through level up to use it
-- I believe evasion is part of Pokemon and shouldn't be banned entirely
-- I don't want the videos to all be double-team spam though, that's not fun or entertaining
-- Only two Pokemon learn Double-Team through level up: Pikachu & Scyther
-- Minimize is the other evasion raising move, these Pokemon learn it through level up:
-- Clefairy, Clefable, Grimer, Muk, Chansey, Staryu
Yellow Version changes from Red/Blue:
1. You cannot use Dig/Escape Ropes in Bill's House or the Pokefan Club
2. You cannot talk to the trainers in Blaine's gym to battle them
3. Surge, Sabrina, and Blaine do not have Good AI
4. The Elite Four have better movesets
5. Koga, Sabrina, Blaine, and Giovanni have higher level teams
6. Blaine doesn't use Super Potions are full HP
7. The rival picks his eeveelution based on the outcome of the first two battles.
-- Lose in the lab: Vaporeon
-- Win in the lab and skip route 22: Flareon*
-- Win in both locations: Jolteon
-- *You cannot lose on route 22 because you blackout
Terms:
-- STAB
-- Same-Type-Attack-Bonus - a 1.5x damage multiplier
-- Stat Experience
-- The Gen1&2 equivalent of effort values. You can invest in all stats until they max
out at 65535
-- DVs or Determinate Values
-- The Gen1&2 equivalent of IVs (individual values), these range from 0-15
Resources:
-- Gen 1 Stat Calculator: pycosites.com/pkmn/stat_gen1.php
-- All Trainer Pokemon have IVs (DVs) of 89888 (hp, atk, def, spd, spc)
-- All Trainer Pokemon have EVs of 0
-- Gen 1 Crit Rates: www.smogon.com/rb/articles/cr...
-- Crit rate is determined by dividing base speed by 512
-- High crit rate moves determine their rate by dividing base speed by 64
-- All crits have a 1/256 to fail, even if the rate is 100%
-- Crits don't multiple damage by 2, it's a formula based on level
Illustrations
Sarina Vail: / sarinavail
Support me on Patreon
/ scottsthoughts
~~Connect with me~~
Twitter
/ psychicflying
Email
[e-mail]

[@danieldvir]

“Nugget bridge is next and it demands a lot of PP, but mine is quite small and inefficient, I made peace with the reality of this situation as I was defeating these trainers. Today Im going to have to go back and visit Nurse Joy before I get the elixir” 😅

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

I work hard on these things

[@FlyinLionQuinn]

@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon it's not the size of the boat, it's the motion of the growth and vine whip.

[@leavemealone4487]

@@FlyinLionQuinn aß a

[@ChrisingoXD47]

Wow Bellsprout really surprised me but should we really be surprised after that one in the anime that beat Pikachu and Bulbasaur?

[@Shenaldrac]

I loved that episode. Any time Pikachu gets put in its place makes me smile.

[@andrewdole3417]

Excluding the time it loses to a baby Snivy. That was ridiculous.

[@ronokplays]

@@andrewdole3417 we don’t talk about Black and White anime lol

[@TheDanishGuyReviews]

I love that you have Bellsprout's Nice Dex number in likes right now.

[@tacoman10]

@@ronokplays "You're such a little kid!"

[@Jedimastermitch]

one cool thing about the poison type is that it actually is the type with the most pokemon in gen 1, over normal and water, and is also typically the most common type to encounter in the wild, between zubats, tentacool, the weedle line, most of the grass types in the game also have the poison type slapped on them from bulbasaur to oddish and bellsprout, and their evolutions. also, 100% of the ghost types in gen 1 are also poison types

[@Glidus]

Yo Scott, I've been watching for a few months but never left a comment. Just wanted to say that stumbling across your channel was the most excited I'd been about Pokemon content since I found JRose. Watching your channel pop off has been really nice - you deserve every piece of success you have and are yet to receive. The passion you have for this and the effort you put in really comes through. Sky's the limit man, and you're on your way there.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Thanks so much for the comment Glidus! It brightened my day :)

[@charlessegale6493]

I was...NOT expecting Bellsprout of all Pokémon to dominate the way it did in Round 2! Great job, Scott!

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Thanks Charles

[@zeaferjones1404]

The one draw back is people are afraid to use Razor Leaf with it because they don't know what they are going to get where I see it more as a win/win. However, I think Mega Drain is way better than people think (especially with a grass type) so if Razor Leaf being inconsistent encourages mega drain, then I'm all for it.

[@anlev11]

29:10 Slam with -3 accuracy has the same accuracy as horn drill with no stat modifier (30%). The chance of it hitting 3 times in a row is 2,7%

[@ryomaanime4563]

Versus August a few seconds before that, it didn't miss once either, that was enough to astonish me, i never expected that much of this cursed move Sabrina fight is just witchcraft

[@kylelundgren5133]

Only gen 1/2 horndrill

[@cdajah6920]

Rock/Fire Venomoth... absolutely terrifying to face in my mono grass runs in this game. I'm so proud of you scott for being able to navigate around such a formidable foe. Koga always seems to have our number in terms of typing, but you persevere!

[@LonesomeDevil]

Fun fact: The few competitive players who still actively play Gen 1 recently realized that Victreebel might actually compete with Exeggutor for the title of best Grass type in the game. (For this specific generation, obviously) It's kinda crazy how people are still actively studying the optimal way to play these old games in such different aspects.

[@yamiryushi]

I loved how the speed up walking with the snorlax encounter was done so smoothly it looked like you just absorbed it into yourself as you walked to the cycling road! XD

[@JohnkyTonkbadonkadonk]

Comments:"Surprised Bellsprout did so well." Me:"I knew he would. Bellsprout is a boss. Always has been." Lowkey, one of my faves.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Such a boss

[@sepg5084]

@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon Brock's rock hard snake can't last afterall 😉

[@bryanwoodard1240]

Your channel is growing fast now! Great content as always man, your commentary is on another level. 🤘

[@Chefvonbreezy]

That growth into swords dance was the biggest brain move I’ve seen in a run in a long time that was pretty awesome watching a lv 36 bellsprout mop the floor with koga 🤣

[@VoiceAnon]

Supersonic is a unique move in that it feels like it has 20 accuracy when you use it, and 95 accuracy when the enemy uses it.

[@lavitzdies624]

You're the man, Scott! That new video notification always makes my Friday.

[@sjoerdglaser2794]

Losing against the first Jessy and James, this is already off to a strange run! I love different gen 1 move as I watch more of your videos, I come to realize how each pokomen is different and struggles at different points.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

This was truly a strange one...

[@iantaakalla8180]

Given its typing, it must be its stats and that it has the best sleeping moves and the best stat boosting move.

[@bvd_vlvd]

The sparrow story at the end is so relatable because I had a phase when I "forgot" seal's spelling and called it seel

[@levicohen6496]

Great video as always, Scott! And I completely agree re: your point about how each Mon deals with getting a flying-type. Makes sense to take that interaction into account when it comes to timing each run.

[@jameswhite2308]

Man, I'm super impressed! When I saw this I was excited, and rightfully so! The improvement in the run (and in general) was amazing, and the quality of your videos keeps improving. You've honestly turned into my favorite poketuber for these runs, even above jrose11, because you keep on trying to find the best times and optimizations. You are willing to redo videos if there is a huge time save or just a different technique you didn't think about(gyarados is on the way, so that's good!). Keep up the great work!

[@FreeSpeechTravelArtWrestling]

I’ll be amazed to see what victrebel can do…

[@CoffeeFlavoredMilk]

You know I'm starting to think a Victreebel vs Vileplume match-up video would be heavily one-sided but maybe I'll be proven wrong. Victreebel doesn't have Growth, but what it DOES have is Razor Leaf. Which is a stupidly good move to start off with especially when you consider that Victreebel will basically always crit with it.

[@sepg5084]

It's Bellsprout, with higher stats

[@gogetawhatif8138]

@@sepg5084 It doesn’t get growth

[@ryomaanime4563]

And it need a lot more exp to level up Without growth, the best choice is probably swords dance, it would still be a good time, but not sure that it would be better

[@browncow5210]

@@gogetawhatif8138 I don't think it's even going to need growth, since its best move abuses crit mechanics. It also learns body slam now and a more manageable 70 speed, so its physical game is way better than Bellsprout's. Aside from the psychic weakness, Victreebel is a very underrated mon in Gen 1.

[@skeetermania3202]

All right, Scottie! Show me what you gotti!

[@paulhiggins6433]

He's given her all she's got!

[@kode-man23]

Was waiting for this one. I thought that it would do very well, but I didn't think that it would beat Poliwag! That was a CLEAN second play through.

[@brandonkilbourne76]

Always happy to see another video! Bellsprouts been a Johto fav for me for as long as i remember (I know he Kanto but i only use him in gen 2/remakes)

[@oskararvidsson3709]

Amazing content as always!! Keep up the good work m8 💪🏻

[@maneruloquendero]

I love the layout of these videos. The screen is so full of stuff; the gameplay in the middle and information and numbers at the sides. It looks like a control center. Every corner has something to show. It looks geeky and reminds me of gameplays made by japanese people and I love it

[@Wild-by5hl]

Been busy for the last 2 week. So happy to be able to catch up on your videos this weekend. Keep up the good work! Btw sandshrew is the best, ever since that episode where it shrugged off a water gun from ash's squirtle

[@jo.comics]

Wow, incredible playthrough! That was genuinely massively impressive! Really fun and it's nice to see you back in gen 1 ☺️

[@raulnatokapa]

I love how good has Scott become, Idk to say if he is too good or bellsprout performed excellent. Love your vids, they are engaging.

[@Schmootzidootz]

My brother in christ…love your videos! Cant wait for more! And love rewatching your old’ns so dont feel rushed to keep new ones coming lol

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Thanks so much Stuart. I’m glad you’re enjoying.

[@mrunderachiever]

I love seeing how the much your videos have improved from the get go, the PP counter next to the reset counter is brilliant. Hope you and your fiancé are doing well and can't wait for the next one!

[@smusher6]

Bellsprout has been my number 1 favorite pokemon ever since I first saw it 24 years ago. I love seeing it get some love.

[@chrisdixon7377]

Love the content as always!! Proud to be a long time patron!

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Thanks for the support Chris!

[@thebigbean8783]

So happy for this video!! I looooove bellsprout! I'm hoping for a fantastic run from this sweet boi!!

[@paulnewton2284]

I like the small details in the editing. For example, when the E4 pictures come on screen, Agatha phases in with a flash of light rather than coming in from the sides like the others, since she is a Ghost specialist and ghosts are known for just kinda appearing.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

She’s also slightly translucent if you look really closely!

[@sebasimp]

You are the only channel that i have the notification bell activated, i wait every week for a new video, i love them, please keep them going

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

I will!

[@archiiebarrett]

Years back on a yellow playthrough, I used a Victreebel on my main team... What an absolute beast that pokemon is in gen 1, it's remarkable. Unfortunately, I used it later in a HeartGold playthrough, and the low SD really hurt its potential.

[@matthewdale3366]

The morelasect was the best thing I've ever seen on ur channel. I love morels

[@kevinsips3658]

Sarina's art was really cool in this one!

[@Skipatronic]

:o Bellsprout is the GOAT

[@dragonlord4194]

Bellsprout is a lot better than I imagined that little flower being. Even with the worse setup-move Great video as usually!

[@philipmurphy2]

Bellsprout did quite well in this playthrough for sure

[@savagebeast_69]

troll "I'm not moving" Scott "Fine" troll (moves) "lol" Scott "well....damn" lmao happens to me all the time

[@apache3133]

Bow to mighty COLONO. Also really appreciate how much personality the sprites are being given on the side lately.

[@Guarnerz97]

I’ve been waiting for this! Let’s Go! ❤❤❤

[@KayLoo202]

Bellsprout was always my go-to Grass type during my Blue days. Honestly, I also just think it's an adorable Mon.

[@michaeld8705]

Even though it's a tad ugly the Bellsprout line was one of my favorites in gen 1. So glad it had such a strong showing

[@TheGamingCamel22]

With this impressive result, no wonder they gave it its own tower in the sequels 😁😉

[@emilydonegan3208]

With my love of Grass and Poison types, and having played Blue as my first game, Bellsprout holds a special place in my heart! Plus, I loved the episode with the wombo combo Bellsprout lol; It was so OP, but also Muk got to do something! Yay!

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Plus, Bellsprout is an absolute beast in this game!

[@thehouseofstark]

I always chuckle at the Venomoth jokes

[@Killagoose77]

I'm so happy my bro finally got his run. Clicked the video as soon as I saw him.

[@solarstorm5242]

Bellsprout? More like Ballsprout with how well it can slam. This run is gonna be fun… For us. Hope you had fun with Laurelei and every Alakazams ^^’

[@SSMD999]

Will you do a vs video in Crystal against all 6 eevee types which one is better?

[@lucasjohnson3477]

Let’s gooo. Got here at the start for the first time!

[@MobiusCipher]

Scott: Watch the flashing lights during this final battle. Porygon: Hold my beer.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Omg. Lol

[@hardboyled]

I started to like Bellsprout a lot more - just because of challenge runs like these! I wonder how Victreebel would fare, but since it's a Stone Evolution like Vileplume: Would you consider making a VS Video with those, too? Anyway - Thanks for the upload! :)

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

That’s the plan for those two!

[@hardboyled]

@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon That's cool! Thank you for all the amazing work you're putting in your content! I'm sure it's not always easy, especially when it comes down to these VS Videos! :)

[@yaboityler2617]

If you need to fight any extra trainers, and you have a grass move, id reccomend the gambler right before the horizontal underground tunnel. He gives like 1200 yen and has 3 water pokemon that give good stat exp. He usually can push you over the edge for an extra vitamin, provided you sell the full restore from the vertical underground path, and have a bit of extra money from selling hidden items like FR and MP/icebeam rockslide and triattack from top floor

[@PegasusPablo]

Ultra Instinct Bellsprout for the win! It does have lips though...

[@bvd_vlvd]

19:23 I think this might be the first time I've heard someone use this term linguistically correct. Resistance imply you already take half damage, double down on that and you take quarter. It's a minor nitpick, but it throws me off a bit since quad resistance is possible with something like ice against Thick Fat Azumarill.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Had this comment along time ago, so I make a point to always say single and double resistance and 2 and 4 times damage.

[@DanielRyanScott]

"Terribleized" is my new favorite word. Ty Scotty

[@redwings13400]

I'm shocked how well this little plant did! A poison type in gen 1 normally spells disaster, but you made it work!

[@zeaferjones1404]

True but grass types in gen 1 are really good because Brock and Misty are the two biggest pains and vine whip takes care of both of them easily.

[@afmorales7155]

I personally don't mind the animation against the champion, and I think i prefer having it on to add intensity to the last battle in the game. I think if people does not complain about it then it is better to keep it on, but if people does have an issue on rapid flashing lights i think you can also consider slowing it down as i noticed you're doing it already on some battles, we obviously don't mind watching a little longer last fight considering that we're watching a video almost an hour long. Keep up the good work, you're definitely one of my favorite challenge channel.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

We work to keep stuff as slow as possible so it isn’t unwatchable or overwhelming. I’ll really take time to ensure the champion doesn’t go too fast.

[@NativeGolfer10]

Bellsprout is so underappreciated! It used to carry runs in my Pokémon Blue games. If you don’t get Bulbasaur it’s the next best option. Glad to see it do so well.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Agreed

[@Robrt476]

"an old man with lips. I do not like one bit of this" 😂😂😂😂 that got you a sub my guy

[@JeffDvrx]

Oooh best twig boi! I used Victreebell in many of my playthroughs, it's seriously good.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

I’ll have to use it in a regular playthrough in the future!!

[@ThibsyCube]

Wow didn’t expect it to do it this fast! What a beast!

[@zenitfan4life]

Hey Scott, great run! My balls almost dropped a few times while watching it (see what I did there). And it's crazy that you can max your Attack stat out beyond +6 by using growth after swords dance, I never knew that. So broken!

[@wills2736]

One of the most interesting ones yet

[@jeffgiles4693]

Opening dialogue OP 😂. Especially since basically every move is a pun! Growth, Swords Dance, Sleep Powder, Wrap, Take Down, Mega Drain, Rest 😂 😭 😂 😭 😂 😭

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

It should learn Pound, Lovely Kiss, and Body Slam.

[@skeetermania3202]

How are they puns?

[@isaacwright1275]

Oh hell hell also keen for a Scott's thoughts video

[@BroomieHERE]

" pokemon sprites peaked in gen 1 " Someone, out there ...

[@EdokLock]

While I have no attachment to Bellsprout. Victreebel is one of my favorite Pokémons, I never do a play through without him, he is a stable of mine

[@Sakaki_Hime]

Watching your videos helps solve the issue of "What should I draw today?"

[@notme7859]

Man, i like your content because you choose the dome fossil

[@OverlordRobot]

I always loved grass types. They are kind of "passive" in their moves in gen 1. Love how gen 1 types are set up, if only they balanced psychic, ghost and dragon a bit more movewise

[@ryomaanime4563]

to be fair they didn't expect the kind of success it got, in a random RPG it's pretty rare that the balance is good, usually there's one or two broken things atleast In the lore the psychic type looks like the strongest type by far and it was reflected in these games A bit of psychic power make you a powerhouse in the lore, psyduck is an overpowered beast, butterfree is strong thanks to psychich power, slowpoke line can not care about anything thanks to them, drowsee line can control humans, alakazam line is terrifying, and mewtwo is a god But no dragon move... that's a strange mistake

[@matthewcosmi9393]

Bellsprout perform like that one bellsprout in the anime pokemon league

[@red-eyessolares1817]

The Bellsprout line really does show how broken the Badge Boost Glitch is in Gen 1. If you were doing a First Stage Poison Type Tier List, this could potentially be the best one.

[@xander.357]

Bellsprout is a really fun pokemon to use. Not great coverage but once it learn razor leaf it crushes most things

[@khaotix64]

I love your door transitions lol

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Thank VanMan for those. He’s the one who inspired me to do them. His videos have the tightest transitions!

[@browncow5210]

Yeah, I love grabbing Bellsprout in Gen 1. It's one of the few Pokemon that actually has enough good moves to wonder what I want to keep in its moveset. I still like it in Gen 2, but it lost a lot of it's tools like broken razor leaf and swords dance. Also evolution stones are pretty much unobtanium while Pokemon that need them are very common, so I'm not sure why they did that. At least it's a great user of sludge bomb. Bellsprout actually has the honor of being the only shiny I've caught before the first gym.

[@typhoonboom]

the bellsprout looks like a ninja, very fun

[@kingryan1774]

The ninja bellsprout picture is actually really nice.

[@Carriereowen142]

I love the setup on the vid

[@volleyballftw]

did you ever consider including total exp gained into your metrics? it might be similar to lv (which states the percentage of power possible by leveling the pokemon needed from its max in %), but exp states how much work it is to achieve this power - and it probably tells people more than what growth rate a pokemon is.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

More on this later

[@someguy4252]

nicely done again scott... i wonder have you tried using the final evelution of a pokemon at the start... at level 5?

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Yup

[@someguy4252]

@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon any vids saved? or are they lost to twitch forever?

[@milkdud8993]

Another Nice run! Bellsprout may have needed growth but my sense of humor doesn’t. How many 69s are there in the Pokédex anyway to make a video on?

[@victorjavilescolon8521]

always remember that Pokemon league episode with the OP Bellsprout

[@bagley34]

Scott's Thoughts stands in the entry way, scissors in hand. There is a cry for help, a plea for mercy, as the elderly residents of this retirement home attempt to flee in terror. "OLD MEN SHOULDNT HAVE LIPS" Scott bellows, snapping his scissors together and walking toward his next victim.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

This is a horror movie

[@ArloMathis]

I could be wrong, but can't you use the move view dialog to shift Surf and Strength in the order so that they appear how you want? I realize that's absolutely slower though, since menuing at 4x speed is so inefficient.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Not in gen 1

[@ArloMathis]

@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon Wild. I'm not surprised though, because I don't remember doing it myself and I can't remember when I learned it or for what gen.

[@michaelsilva2865]

Can’t wait to see a scyther run. Oddish run Or even the infamous kabuto/ps run Keep up the great vids

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Did Scyther vs Pinsir along time ago! Kabuto is coming next month.

[@leonardoluiz7487]

Is it really worth it to go for minimum battles against Brock (at least with unevolved pokemon)? I think Bellsprout was a good exemple of why that's not great. It had everything to do well with minimum battles: good early game typing, stab and good set up move and even then it had a somewhat difficult time because it was underleveled. The second playthrough was way better with a little more training.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Minimum battles is usually just straight up a mistake unless you want a low gametime.

[@MrDreyven]

Bellsprout is legitemately insane, what a time, who would've though. Giving many presumably better pokemon a run for their money.

[@joebykaeby]

Ohhhh, you named it ":O" Not "Colono" as my brain originally assumed. I was... not entirely sure what Weepinbell has to do with colonoscopies...

[@bradlauk1419]

For some reason "Colono" made me think of Tropico

[@christophertomlinson8097]

The single most broken line in red blue and yellow. Wrap sleep powder combo for the wins

[@qactustick]

Wrap and sleep powder are explained to not really combo very well, though.

[@adventureoflinkmk2]

Suggestion: your run #2 data, use a different colour than the purple you used... It was hard to see unless I angle my phone in just the right way and I initially missed the stats

[@bateltheassistant]

That run was more than well played. 😁. Bellsprout's growth and access to a sleeping move had been gave it an edge over poliwag i think. 🤔Having a badge boosting move like growth is kind of game breaking, and then add to that, the fact that you can do it without getting a hits from tge opponent's pokemon, yeah that's an s tier pokemon when I see one. 😊 That oak fight seemed like you have got a reset if you weren't lucky enough with sleep, but, hey, a win is a win. 😌 Keep up the good work! And I wonder what the next run would be?☺️

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Next week is a re-do for Gyarados! Then some Halloween content for October ;)

[@tekno4blood]

Scott everytime you say "that was a lot of damage" or "that's a lot of damage" I can only think of Phil Swift. NOW THAT'S A LOT OF DAMAGE!!

[@Redmage913]

*sees new Scott's video* *pounds screen* Perfect video to fall asleep with!

[@markbass1989]

Your riffing about the small pp on nugget bridge made me chuckle hah 😁

[@inazuma-fulgur]

I wanna believe that Lieutenant Surge being terrible is a deliberate political critique of the military.

[@somaricraftbros6283]

I love the later premiers, I can finally catch em

[@jptheflipper3825]

I was expecting that to be another rough one for you, but am so surprised it was that good, I got a feeling if you did Weepingbel, it'd over take Hypno, same if you did Poliwhirl. please tell me you a Victreebel vid planned in the future, maybe as a vs against Vileplume or maybe Exeggutor, I'd like to think all of them would have the same problems Poliwrath and Gyarados had because of the opening movesets

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Victreebel vs vileplume.

[@jptheflipper3825]

@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon I look forward to that one, I loved using both for my runs in Yellow and Blue (never had red)