Valve Just Put Game Publishers On Notice.

[@BellularNews]

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[@ExiMaster]

stop with this

[@kollboy2204]

Kinda sad Incogni feel the need to put you through hoops to cancel your subscription having to write an email to them instead of just letting you cancel your sub in your user panel, i have no respect for a company who feels the need to make cancelling your subscription annoying, big L :l

[@3N1StaticGaming]

Valve gave me Christmas early lol

[@xAngoryx]

Is incogni one of those that says "We do this service but you're limited to once every 3 months?"

[@lukearts2954]

There's a consequence you didn't cover, that is definitely going to play in the minds of C:S2 players. Fans may not care that they have to wait another year. But if the items get refunded, that means they will have to repurchase at the time it _does_ come out, and you can bet on it that will be at a higher price. So imho valve should leave refund optional, at the customer's discretion during the entire period of delay.

[@StreetSurfersAlex]

Steam actually is pro players - I lately bought a game a few minutes after release, a few minutes later the discount started and steam AUTOMATICALLY refunded me the difference of the missed discount

[@steveguacamole3098]

@StreetSurfersAlex I had a full price game that I had for a week, played longer than 2 hours, when it went on sale for 50% off. I asked them if they could refund the difference to my steam wallet knowing they are well within their rights and policies to say no, but to my surprise, i had it refunded within an hour. This is why I've been a customer for many years, and why I will continue to be.

[@gamerscomplete]

never had that happen myself, but thats really awesome valve is doing that. Their customer centric focus is the reason I no longer will purchase any games that arnt on steam

[@Grromasz]

@@gamerscomplete GoG is cool too.

[@Shadow-bk1im]

if the discount takes hold a few minutes later just refund the game and buy it again valve has a specific section that talks about this and it is acceptable use of the refund policy.

[@Rich_Lich]

Yeah, price for Hades 2 changed and they gave me back price difference :D

[@mrfawkes9110]

"A company that can't keep to their promises, should go under." Damn right.

[@ndh06]

​@@mrfawkes9110 Was half life 3 promised?

[@FnD4212]

@@ndh06 Never released in the first place.

[@PlebNC]

EA, Ubisoft, Activision: "WOAHWOAHWOAAAAH! Let's not do anything crazy."

[@nananooknak]

That's true capitalism

[@RSpracticalshooting]

​@ndh06 half-life 3 was never a thing. Episode 3 was pseudo promised but since they never sold anything they really didn't break any promise.

[@ragingthunder3299]

Be gabe Accidently create a pc gaming monopoly Never put other companies down, is just better Uses their power to enforce consumer friendly policy

[@Spectacular_Insanity]

It wouldn’t be a monopoly if every other option wasn’t shit. Epic had their chance but squandered it by screwing over gamers instead of actually making a good service.

[@v01d_r34l1ty]

@@Spectacular_Insanity yeah it's not like other corporations can't compete. they just get too greedy too fast.

[@HoundOfGod]

The reason it's not regulated by goverment, with the amount of lobbying money in some publishers hands, is because it's technically, not a monopoly. They has been competition, still is sort of, they just all sucked and died out. You can't penalize a company that does 0 slander, price gouging, predatory buisness etc, just because others try and fail and you're the only one left standing.

[@CorrosiveCitrus]

​@@Spectacular_InsanityGOG is pretty decent, just the publishers let it down sometimes

[@demivideos8887]

@@CorrosiveCitrus yes, but most codes on GOG are stolen, not by GOG obviously, but they know they are stolen.

[@CErra310]

The fact that Valve is leveraging their position in the games industry to move away from just being a distributor and closer towards becoming a mediator between publishers and players, because they understand that publishers have made "get an inch, take a mile" their doctrine, and that this can only be pushed so far before consumers lose faith in the industry and stop purchasing, is why I love this company. They understand how to do business and how decisions like this benefit them in the long run. Something that shareholders will never get.

[@AsaelTheBeast]

Share holders get it. They just don't care because their investments are all relatively short term. If the industry burns down after they make their profits? Why should they care?

[@DamnedSilly]

@@AsaelTheBeast That's the real difference with Valve and the companies like them. Valve is not publicly traded. The controlling interest is focused on the long term success of the company, not short term share prices. Valve also has a big financial interest in making these changes because much of their business model is based on being trusted by the customers. Shady operators make buyers less likely to risk their money next time but Valve profits most when the market is healthy and happy.

[@Pecetos]

Sooner or later Gabe is going to step down, can you imagine what this company could do in hands of some feaclmater human like some of the CEOs out there ? I think every company that is beaing courently hated ware once considered inflatable but none had as much power as valve

[@Foun_D_OnePiece]

@@Pecetos damn people still talking smack about Gabe son before he takes over is crazy. We're good until we die my dude.

[@adamwebster1666]

The -esteemed- -respected- _revered_ gentleman, Saint Newell of Gabe and VALVe understand how their bread gets buttered. There is no governmental or regulatory force maintaining the Steam monopoly on PC gaming, it is the gamer's loyalty that keeps them afloat and they know it.

[@BlueShellshock]

Steam: "Season passes have to state what future DLCs are included in the pass. I don't know why we even have to say this." Most Publishers: "Okay, makes sense." Escape From Tarkov Publishers: "OH, BULLS*!"

[@libertusprimus]

"CYKA YOBANA!"

[@nguyen-vuluu3150]

@@BlueShellshock thats why EFT isn't ever on steam

[@MrEricmopar]

The Slavic game companies can not be trusted. I know from dealing with Wargaming, who is originally out of St Petersburg, Russia and Belarus. Many believe Wargaming is from Cyprus, but they moved the address of their head office there, to avoid the Ukraine war sanctions.

[@krissalkond]

@@nguyen-vuluu3150 Who/what is EFT?

[@Herobrine10]

@@krissalkond Escape from Tarkov

[@DiegoMorales-wn1jp]

Amazing how "You're not allowed to sell a product you won't deliver" is somehow an amazing act of consumer protection. How did it come to this?

[@meepfanmeepster8620]

Maximizing Shareholder Value

[@ishipcrimsonandcerluean]

@@meepfanmeepster8620valve don’t have shareholders, though I might be misreading your comment

[@randomdude6446]

@@ishipcrimsonandcerluean Its maximizing shareholder value for the companies pulling those kinds of promises for their games not valve

[@meepfanmeepster8620]

@@ishipcrimsonandcerluean /\ It's as Randomdude says the reason that "You're not allowed to sell a product you won't deliver" is an amazing act is that companies are prioritizing their shareholders over their customers. Hence "Maximizing Shareholder Value"

[@z2ei]

Yet it's just for season passes, and not for Early Access..

[@nateisgreat8]

Good guy VALVe forcing the gaming industry to change its monetization practices? It's the holidays indeed.

[@thomaskrogh1244]

Yeah good guy valve that started loot boxes in the west, that cleafied that they are selling you the license of the games, and made the pc gaming environment into a walled garden. And takes 30% person of the game revenue. And their full name is Valve Corporation. Yes is a private company but it is still a corporation. Also the only reason it has refunds cause it lost a legal battle in Australia. In 2016.

[@xdarthpool6463]

Yeah, like how overwatch charged ppl for ow2 single player... then changed the game to free to play... only to cut development on the single player and add it back in as a paid add-on. 😡TF

[@Ondude389]

To quote Blackrock: "Forced behaviours."

[@ni9274]

Change monetization practices ? this doesn't change anything about monetization, also seasons pass and deluxe editions were never much of a problem

[@hdaviator9181]

Good guy valve? if Valve was the good guy, they wouldn't be renting out games at full price. If you aren't using the GOG model you are not the good guy.

[@MSlocum669]

Telling people what they are buying seems pretty fair to me.

[@rylaninstead]

fr

[@TheOneGreat]

@@MSlocum669 The AAA industry isn't used to being fair.

[@quineloe]

next: tell people what they're going to pay when ordering. Restaurant industry in shambles

[@Atypical-0]

It's not just pretty fair it's literal how it should be. It should not be any other way, anyone who suggests that is a corporate shill dirtbag

[@live4in2the0moment]

@@quineloewhat restaurants are you going to 😂

[@yossarian00]

I swear I am the last person that'd ever be loyal to a company, but I've had a steam account since 2009, and Valve truly and honestly has been the only company that I can (at least personally) say didn't make me feel utterly fucked over in some way or another in those long years. (maybe a little when it stopped being green.) Their support of gaming on linux on it's own has been a blessing.

[@FrankSpank-y6t]

My steam acc is 21 years old, it's been in my life longer than it hasn't

[@Terraqueo22]

​@@LV9_xwhat are you yapping about? I dont have multiple accounts on various other game platforms because its a goddamn hassle remembering passwords and shit. Also less shit to manage or drain memory usage on my pc

[@Valcuda]

@@yossarian00 I think it's safe to be loyal to a company, so long as they aren't publicly traded. Once they go public, it's all about profits! But if they're privately owned, they're able to do stuff for the sake of the customer instead of profits.

[@ZeallustImmortal]

Yeah I'd say Valve is the only large company that has never done me bad. I think the worst thing Valve has ever done to me is give me an accidentally triggered VAC ban. I had cheat engine open when playing CS1.6, I had forgotten to close it after goofing off in a single player game. But that one is entirely my fault and it's not like I expect them to unban me for MY mistake. Though I wish they could've given me special treatment hahaha. On the bright side, it was so long ago that it doesnt show on my profile anymore, and I dont play cs1.6 anymore so it doesn't matter much.

[@Gjalfr]

Had my steam account for 15 years, haven't been duped yet. I swear by valve.

[@chefref5027]

Gabe? Yes... that was what they used to call me. Gabe the Gray. That was my name. *I* am Gabe the White. And I come back to you now - at the turn of the tide.

[@Greyshirk]

@@chefref5027 HIS NAME is GFAT

[@alphagoose9964]

@@chefref5027 dude I hate that everyone’s getting older so much older now😔

[@djzl05l]

2:49 very apt for whats happened this year with all the dei flops 😄

[@LuisSierra42]

The lord of Valves

[@WillemDafuq69]

Gabe The Gambling Promoter (To children)

[@the_free_mike]

the striking difference between a publicly traded and a privately owned company

[@blarghblargh]

there's a lot of really bad privately owned companies, too. but yeah, publicly owned companies are awful by default.

[@paddycakes6244]

A very unfortunate side-effect of the way our economic system works is that public companies literally by law have to do things that make more money. This is a gross oversimplification; but basically if it's *legal* they literally HAVE to do something that makes more money. Regardless of morality, sketchiness, even just plain human decency. If it's technically legal; or even legally grey, it's all but illegal to not do it. That's really fucked up when you think about it conceptually.

[@the_free_mike]

@@blarghblargh totally agree! I meant more when it comes to gaming.

[@Entropy67]

​@@paddycakes6244and then it becomes the governments job to set boundaries, they are the ones that decide what's illegal. The more a capitalist democratic society degenerates the more control corporations have over government, the more the average person suffers to forward the greed that is mandated by the current system. The state and future of such a society is so clearly predictable lol. The only thing you can do is try to position yourself in a way that it won't kill you when everything else crashes. You would need to figure out everything, remake everything, since its all on you once no one else is left.

[@jaelee1996]

The biggest issue for public company is that the ones running the company have no inherent interest in the future of the company for the long term. Quarterly growth is all that matters so that they can sell.

[@startthebengine]

You guys remember Destiny 2 and the $40 Forsaken campaign? I bought that and the base game. Went back to play it recently with my brother and it’s literally gone. You can’t play it anymore. At all. Not even an offline instance. I had access to literally zero percent of the game. Everything I tried to go do asked me to purchase a $20-$40 pack of some other DLC content that has come out. All my end game guns from the dlc had basically been nerfed to level ones, my gear was actually gone, like they removed it and the shaders from the game entirely, and I couldn’t play multiplayer as it was gated behind a paywall. These types of game companies are cancer. You don’t negotiate with cancer. You kill it.

[@daviddebroux4708]

Part of the reason why I stopped playing D2, and technically I only got in when it was F2P. Bungie are a husk of their former selves, and it shows how low they're willing to go.

[@startthebengine]

@ I just kinda can’t believe it’s legal. Like I didn’t expect access to the new stuff, but… dude, literally the ENTIRE game and expansion I bought was gone. They even ‘remixed’ the original missions and locked me off from those. Insane.

[@ZeallustImmortal]

I remember the first DLC of the first Destiny. Made almost entirely of areas that already existed, on the disc.

[@Aleuvian]

A nitpick, but your gear and shaders were not removed. All Forsaken (and prior DLC) assets are still in-game and in your vault if you saved them, but they are no longer obtainable in new instances. All of the actual content (story, some world spaces, etc.) were removed, though.

[@startthebengine]

@@Aleuvian I don’t think I realized that. They did SUCH a horrible job explaining it that they just seemed completely gone. My character was wearing default stuff and I couldn’t find any of it. My guns were basically non-functioning too. Man, you’d think they could prompt me and at least say it’s there.

[@Clowreed48]

Anyone else remember the Gabe Newell meme, 'does nothing - wins', what kind of jimmies gotta be rustled for this giant of power to DO something, and whats gonna happen when that great power gets used? Blizzard, EA, Ubisoft,Square, even bloody Microsoft came crawling back, and even Sony put their games on PC cause of em. Competitor had to make layoffs......Is it true that the gaming industry is being supported by JUST this one Man

[@VimyGlide]

gabe is the modern atlas, hoisting the world of gaming on his shoulders

[@crimsonwizahd2358]

Atlas shrugged, and the gaming world noticed...

[@loganmiles7836]

He’s not even using both hands. He’s just twirling it on his index finger

[@derrickbiedermann9802]

Its basically a monopoly, but not from strong arming other retailers (atleast any more than Amazon or Walmart get away with), it's other retailers sucking eggs.

[@haydentravis3348]

With great power comes great responsibility.

[@oikoj7869]

Valve has so much power on the videogame scene, its really lucky that they are the ones responsible for it and not a company like EA

[@ingrudmessenger1193]

It's not like EA didn't try. They do (did?) have their own store. It's just that nobody cares about it. Valve isn't lucky, they earned that power by doing the right things.

[@TakarieZan]

I don't like sucking off a corpo. Anything can happen, and plenty of times corpos/businesses have lied. Just like real people. Damn it though I gotta admit I love Valve. It's why I bought a steam deck at full retail DESPITE the ROG Ally being half the price due to Black Friday. I want Proton OS to succeed, I want Valve to Succeed. I want their legacy of doing whats best for both businesses and consumers (especially the latter) to continue.

[@chikkin.salad.sandwich]

​@@systemcheck2769begone bot

[@Necro-the-Pyro]

If EA ran steam, we'd all have gone back to playing board games and having poker night in the garage by now.

[@widmo206]

@@Necro-the-Pyro If EA owned Steam, we'd all be sailing the high seas :)

[@ThatGuyKazz]

And stuff like this is exactly the sort of thing that makes players unwilling to buy games on other PC storefronts like Epic Games Store. Like god damn I'd love for Steam to have some actual competition but no other store front even comes close to respecting the players and consumers as much as Valve does and that's why they dominate 90% of the PC gaming market.

[@bayanzabihiyan7465]

The only one that could rival is microsoft and X-box gamepass. Because some users prefer subscription gaming over purchasing every game to only play it for a few 10s of hours.

[@nicholasholloway8743]

Lets just hope Microsoft doesn't pull a Sony and release a console with little to no upgrades for 700-1200$. If that happens then ppl would do themselves a service and switch to PC. ​@@bayanzabihiyan7465

[@BohCrafter-w2d]

Thats true and most games i finished under 2-3 days​@@bayanzabihiyan7465

[@TNH91]

What about GOG?

[@Kaycee_Ace]

Something else valve needs to do is make sure that if a lawful refund happens the publisher CANNOT punish the customer for getting a refund, example Gajin entertainment who will ban players from the market in their games if you refund something, they don't try to stop you from refunding and they don't even warn you of the consequences, in games like crossout the market is vital to the game so being banned from it means the game is barely playable. Lost an account with allot of money spent on it because of it.

[@GojiraTX]

Thats absolutely disgusting. My condolences bro.

[@gorgofdoom]

I wouldn't interact with Gaijn with a 10 foot pole. Their "games" (singular game engine using mostly the same assets) are designed in such a way that makes me think they're using it to develop security instead. They've finagled the pricing such that real time spent playing can turn into real money, especially if you somehow magically play with perfect skill. Selling accounts is one way to earn. At the end of this very logical road we could use cheats to earn real money. Why else would they design their game to encourage this?

[@Eclipse-lw4vf]

You’re simply wrong about gaijin. You can refund the item. As long as you don’t use it or any of the ge it gives you. 99% of people banned tried initiating refunds after using said item which is against tos lol. I don’t even like WT etc anymore but it’s just plain wrong. And it is warned in the TOS

[@Kaycee_Ace]

@@Eclipse-lw4vf even if it is in the TOS first, they can and should disabled refunds for things like this its really easy to do, secondly they know no one reads the TOS, its the reason why you have "Do no eat the wrapper" lable on things, more direct warnings should be put in the store page.

[@HR91360]

thats already illegal, it's considered destroying/ruining the product out of malice/retaliation for consumer rights. "intentional destruction of a consumers product"

[@Sleeman0980]

Totalbiscuit would be proud, I'm still not gonna pre-order or buy deluxe anything

[@SimuLord]

There are exactly two developers on my Shut Up And Take My Money list. One is SCS Software. New map DLC for Euro Truck Simulator 2? Buying it on day one. American Truck Simulator? I plan my work vacations around those (seriously, I took a week off work to do the Cruising Arkansas event on World of Trucks.) The other is Pathea Games. I bought My Time at Sandrock on Day 1 of Early Access and I backed the Kickstarter for My Time at Evershine. Everyone else? I wait for the release date, a couple of Let's Plays on KZbin, good reviews, and a sale before I buy.

[@alridan90]

For me it is capcom for Monster hunter games

[@MikeSharpeWriter]

I only consider buying Deluxe versions years later!

[@SimuLord]

@@MikeSharpeWriter I picked up the PC version of RDR2 in 2021 for...I think it was 15 bucks? Something like that. Knew what I was getting and wasn't disappointed. Also got the deluxe edition of Witcher 3 in 2020 (great lockdown game, as it turned out!) for something like $2.50 USD. THAT was a steal.

[@Benzona]

@@SimuLord for me it’s Konami, anything they put out I’m buying on release. Used to be Bethesda too but I feel like I should have waited and gotten Star field after modding

[@lastofthestarmakers]

I really hope this is the start of an upward tick in quality. As someone who has been a PC gamer since the early 2000s, I'm so tired of the over-promising and under-delivering that has become rampant in the industry.

[@bloomleaf8310]

@@lastofthestarmakers it won’t nothing in this system states that the content has to be good or meaningful. I firmly believe it will drive quality down since all the companies have to do is deliver what the description says. 2 new weapons can literally just be something in the game already and just paint it 2 different colors, and there you go 2 weapons. New zone? There is now a walkway that leads to 4 generic rooms linked together with some trash mobs and has a transition screen from the base game.

[@Commodore22345]

@@bloomleaf8310 It's still forcing companies to be somewhat honest about what they are providing, which is a step in the right direction. Stop being such a depressing doomer.

[@bloomleaf8310]

@@Commodore22345 I'm not being a doomer I'm being realistic about the way this industry has consistently acted for decades. everyone is acting like this is going to force subpar games to suddenly make good content, what is realistically going to happen in a redfall situation, is a small group is going to get tasked with meeting the technical stuff that was promised in the most bare bones way possible.

[@tomsawyer19890]

Knowing what is actually in a season pass instead of vague 'future content we may or may not make' is going to be amazing. Thanks for the video!

[@SimuLord]

As Michael points out, publishers do this because buyers tolerate it. One reason I don't buy AAA games anymore (unless it's years after the fact and at a very deep discount) is because I refuse to play the big players' game by their rules. There are too many other, better games without the predatory practices.

[@gamerscomplete]

@@SimuLord I also have stopped buying AAA titles, theyre no longer made by people that love games, just people that are interested in what money they can extract. Independent and small studios have greatly increased the game quality over the years and are actually making games that people want to buy rather than games that will just succeed off name recognition. At least things are headed int he right direction, AAA studios hemoraging money while the good game studios are making big successful games

[@quademasters249]

I never buy for the future. That means no pre-orders and no season passes.

[@sola4393]

Simple never buy pre order, never buy anything that is being vague about their contents and release date. The rules valve putting out are to protect those who are susceptible and who can't see things clearly. Of course to protect valve from people using his platform for fraud which in turn will hurt his platform. He knows who are his audience, unlike some other companies got it wrong on who is paying their bills.

[@cjyoung5635]

​@@sola4393 monster hunter has always been vague on what's coming sometimes trolling other times doubling down giving extra but always delivered. Anyone who says don't pre order anything are people who regularly buy into crap games like cod.

[@W0lfenstrike]

For a decade, AAA publishers have pushed out Season Pass pre-orders 9 to 6 months before the damned thing even comes out and they even have the gall to push out "3 day Early Access" incentives in that time frame. I'm glad that Steam is finally pushing these scummy companies to ACTUALLY deliver the shit they promise instead of just asking MONEY NOW PLZ.

[@holyheretic3185]

Expect a season pass when a game is announced

[@33mavboy]

season passes are just fken gay man, i'm glad some games are removing them. If the person isn't already a dopamine smoothbrain, enticed by it, it will turn them into one overtime, there is a agenda in nearly everything and a reason for nearly all of it.

[@frag8476]

​@@33mavboygay isn't a very descriptive nor damaging word, use a better one like "stupid" or "useless"

[@ebhaenger8246]

High key, huge W from Valve here. I love 9:32 . It’s basically saying, "If you don’t have any content to deliver nor you are able to say what it is, don’t even think about milking the cow."

[@nlmod]

I'm actually glad that Steam is this big with the right mindset behind their company. Couple years ago there was this whole war against Steam's monopoly on games by Epic Games Store, and what did Epic Games Store do with their power? - Right away if you also had Steam installed, they went into your Steam files, go through your Steam cloud, search history, play history, and friend list, they collected all this data for use in their own launcher, maybe even sell it. Tencent is behind it after all. - They also straight up buy out publishers and developers to brute force a monopoly themselves, even going after crowdfunded games that were set to release on Steam. - They bribe publishers and developers with 100% sales share, if they make their games exclusive to the Epic Games Store for at least 6 months, or if they brought their old games to Epic Games Store instead. They basically did everything to block people from buying games on Steam. - And to cover the cost for all this lunacy, they raised prices on Fortnite V-bucks and their Unreal Engine. - They also claim to be pro-developer with their lower margins than Steam has, but that extra money from game sales goes to the publisher instead if they have one, not to mention Epic Games Store being one of the worst launchers out there and their anti-consumer practices. I'd rather have Steam as an absolute monopoly with the mindset they have now, than Epic Games Store continuing to exist with theirs.

[@jackthatmonkey8994]

@@nlmod Nobody cares about a monopoly when it has a societal benefit and is a monopoly due to superiority of product / service, not because of anti-competitive practices

[@SapphireSouls]

Can't even tell Epic launcher to move a game from one drive to another. It's appalling how dogwater their platform is when they're backed by the money printer that is Fortnite.

[@DyslecticAttack]

​@@jackthatmonkey8994 to be fair, monopolies are bad because it gives too much power to one entity, and thus makes it dependable on the one entity. Thus the entity misusing that power, or failing, will cripple the entire industry before the gap can be filled. Steam so far has proven to be responsible with the power they hold, and friendly to competition for the sake of the industry. Yet a monopoly is still bad simply because there is no guarantee that it'll stay that way. However it's definitely worth noting and praising how steam has been doing amazingly so far. And I hope they can continue to do so for the future.

[@1vaultdweller]

Steam did wonders for gaming community. Epic didnt do shit

[@sadflix8754]

@@SapphireSouls and controllers wont even connect on any games on their crappy launcher, which is a problem when some of the games they sell are console ports.. the only game off there i was able to use a controller with was arkham knight, and that was only thanks for steams "add a non-steam game to library" feature. its insane that a platform can be so bad that i still end up having to rely on their competitor to use it

[@Loctorak]

Gabe Newell - not the hero that gamers deserve, but one we've always needed. When all things in this ridiculous, chaotic world are misleading and exploitative, the following core truths have remained true in my life for the last 20+ years: 1) Food tastes best when it's free. 2) When raising/lowering blinds, the cord that you don't want to pull is always the one you pull first. 3) When GabeN does game things, he bloody well does them right.

[@n16r3d0]

... or doesn't do them at all *cough* HL Ep3 *cough*

[@chefref5027]

God Newell

[@CalgarGTX]

4) USB ports always the wrong side

[@nerdiusmaximus7312]

he charges 30% and hes your hero. dumb as hell

[@CalgarGTX]

@@nerdiusmaximus7312 u drank the epicfailstore coolaid bro, he charges devs that, not us, we get bundles and -75% off games left and right

[@Crow_Rising]

It often gets pointed out that when you buy a game on Steam, you technically don't own a copy of the game but rather a digital license giving you permission to download and play the game. From a legal standpoint, this is true. From Valve's perspective however, there's no distinction. They consider their customers to be purchasing copies of games, and provide support in-line with this idea. They even have a failsafe policy that in the event they are unable to continue keeping Steam online, they will roll out a final version of Steam that only has one online function that allows it to connect to their servers to download whatever games you own on your account. In their eyes, the product keys assigned to your account are indistinguishable from owning a copy of the game and they take that idea very seriously. If your account gets hacked, they also take that very seriously and will do everything they can to get your account back to you once you provide proof of your identity.

[@PugilistCactus]

This has always been the case even with games on hard disk. Read the small text if you don't believe me.

[@-ZeroRed-]

I don't think any publisher or developer has the right to be mad about a policy like that. They are selling you a product which you buy on good faith because at that point it is just a promise. If they break that promise again and again but keep your money, in any other situation that would be fraud. But for some reason, it has gotten to the point where this is okay in the gaming industry. I hope this way more publishers/devs get a wakeup call because like you said: The only thing they fear is losing money, losing reputation or public outcry are not a factor as long as it doesn't impact their bottom line. Indi developers are safe as well since they are still interested in building a community to boost sales, small chance for them to even consider effing over customers. I hope Valve will stay this way even after leadership changes, we'll see...

[@Chocoholiclady66]

Yes, but ... why are such policies even necessary? Customers only have to close their wallets. Fool me once then shame on you (the company), but fool me (the customer) twice then shame on me. Not even an enormous monopoly can survive without customers -- they only survive due to customers who willingly forfeit their right to just say no and close their wallets to tyranny.

[@-ZeroRed-]

@@Chocoholiclady66 That is absolutely right, but many people buy seasonpasses and such purely on good faith. Maybe the company had a good reputation up to that point or the game in question is a long awaited sequel so it becomes a no brainer to some. Logically speaking, if everyone just waited for the content to actually release and then decide to buy it, this policy wouldn't be necessary. But as we all know, people are anything but logical and/or rational most of the time. Long story short, in a perfect world, where people would agree on what should be common sense, you would be right.

[@ihavenoson3384]

There are easy ways to avoid this practice. Buying into this "season pass" stuff is literally paying more for less. 1. Do not buy stuff that you cannot assess yet based on footage and credible consumer reviews. 2. Buy it from a sale. The cheapest way to buy games is get them from bundles like the Humble Bundle stuff. You cannot do that if you pre-order. A Season Pass = a re-branded pre-order.

[@Chocoholiclady66]

@@-ZeroRed- They want support and fund it, then that is their choice, but they must bear the weight of the consequences and accept responsibility for their own choices. It isn't the government's job to protect them from their own choice of what to buy or who to buy it from. If a product is a threat to physically to life, limb and health, then yes the government does tend to such as that. However, you can't knowingly choose to keep buying green apples then expect the government to force the the apple grower (plus all other apple growers) to grow and sell red apples instead. To say there is no other choice is buying into the propaganda of tyrants. If nobody wants green apples, and stops buying them, they go away. If there is demand for red apples, but none to be had then someone is going to jump on that opportunity and start supplying them. Its basic supply and demand. You demand what is or isn't wanted by what you choose to buy. If you buy it, then you are actively and willingly choosing to support and fund it and are giving it your personal seal of approval.

[@ToreDL87]

It's gotten okay in the gaming industry because most gamers are socially inept (no, not having fun saying that) and simply haven't got the common sense/mental capacity to put the foot down. "I'm contributing to the game" a.k.a belongingness at play, and when the few gamers chime in and actually say "hey this is wrong, 2/10", those that bought it take that as a statement about them personally being 2/10, a personal affront. Shoddy devs/publishers know thiis and are making a fortune on it.

[@spence6195]

I hope that free-to-play monetizations get banned from $70 premium games. Those greedy corporations always want to have their cake and f*ck it too

[@Kultus1337]

@@spence6195 ahh those nasty ubisoft time economy system which helps players to grind less in a single player game

[@googlsux6305]

you gotta get the sense of pride and accomplishment, that's why it exists

[@masterbasher9542]

Best you can get is a blatant tag warning. Or failing that, a built in curator warning of micro transactions.

[@Ghostel3591]

​@@Kultus1337in good ol' days you just had cheat codes for that. Free cheat codes. You're literally paying for "greedisgood 10000" cheatcode activation.

[@BillyOnYouTube]

Yeah. "That nickel and dime shit is for the birds."

[@lordbertox4056]

"Valve is a game development company" uhm, do they know that?

[@unknownsample4801]

I mean they did make half-Life so that technically makes them game developers

[@daviddebroux4708]

@@unknownsample4801 And Counter-Strike games, and TF2, and Half-Life 2, and Portal, and Portal 2, and Dota. They have made quite a number of games.

[@bertimusprime7900]

Beta access to Deadlock came out this year...

[@RC-nl8il]

@@daviddebroux4708 So what you're saying is that they used to be a game development company.

[@CorvusCorone68]

@@RC-nl8il Counter-Strike 2 was released in '23

[@TheAnonLee]

This is why i still exclusively use steam on pc, because only them and Gog actually care about their consumers

[@damaskusseraph6046]

I dont use GoG but i respect it

[@rhindlethered]

Well, they fooled you into thinking so, anyway. And that's about as good as it gets.

[@TheDragonfriday]

​@@rhindletheredis there any other better option then valve? Yeah they are still a business, but they are the only one who push for pro customer.

[@GoodChimkin]

@@TheAnonLee pls explain to me because i'm stupid, but what is DRM free exactly? i heard that it was the main feature of GOG but for my limited understanding of it, most or at least a lot of games on steam is already kind of DRM free anyways? again ,pls correct me if i'm wrong because i swear, on steam i have re-downloaded some unlisted games, i have moved some game folder to another computer and played it no problem without steam, but of course i only tried it on limited amount of games so, i don't know if it's not the case for most games on steam.

[@thisguy3500]

@@GoodChimkin Steam is in itself a DRM, having to open the app just to download a game. Some games/apps can be start without Steam opened but in order to obtain the game in the first place, you must log into the Steam app. This is very rare however and especially with online games which require Steam to be open AND online. Unlike GoG where you can purchase a game and download the installers, never having to use their launcher.

[@StiffAftermath]

9:32 - You know what this will do? Devs will cut already existing content from the base game so they can make their DLC commitment dates deadline. I called it here. The first to be caught due to datamines: Ubisoft.

[@morelstrike]

They already do that. If they want to make their games even shitter, it's on them. Let's see how it will work for them.

[@Zenturio331]

Thats why their Stock Price is in the gutter

[@mistrkill]

@@StiffAftermath brother this has already been happening for over a decade

[@krodmandoon3479]

Do you not remember the big Street Fighter x Tekken kerfuffle from TWELVE YEARS ago? When people cracked the disc they found out *DLC characters were already on there* even though they hadn't been announced yet.

[@TheDiner50]

What? The hole season-pass and horse DLC... Do not forget that Steam and Bethesda began selling mods. Before mods became something you paid for? It was already cut-content being sold as DLC 100% of the time. At least when selling mods you are by definition not selling cut content from the base game. At least that is true with launch DLC or special/deluxe editions taking part in this cosmetic/item/mission cutting for profits. No. Instead we are going to get minimum viable product sold first. Then after the base game is made? With all the money hungry micro-transactions and season-passes all put in there? We might see actual DLC and content be made. The Sims 4. At launch, toddlers where not even in the base game. It was 100% expected to be a DLC expansion. That game came out in 2014! The first ones being caught due to dataminers where the games with DLC content on the main disk... So much for Downloadable content. It was coined as "premium features" at that time. Because it was ridiculous how the game was cut up to be sold as DLC.

[@gary4014]

Gabe: does one thing every couple years, competition shoots themselves in the foot *profit*

[@FeniksGaming]

Paradox is absolutely sweating right now. Next thing I would love to see for this to also apply to early access if you promise things to happen and they don't people should get refund. Example Kerbal Space Program 2. Everyone who got this game should get refund. If we bankrupt bad developers I wouldn't be too upset.

[@Nikola_M]

Islands of Insight: Hyped as a giant open world mmo puzzle game, it didn't actually have any meaningful player interactions and the servers had awful rubberbanding. They later added an offline mode while making the servers even worse. Said offline mode saves the entire save file EVERY SECOND, making it unplayable while burning your SSD. By now they completely got rid of multiplayer (still advertising as such). They said they fixed the offline saving issue but i'm not trusting them on that

[@mx2000]

You mean KSP2?

[@bettysteve322716]

"Paradox is absolutely sweating right now" CS2 is still the best ever city builder to date, even as janky as it is, the delay's, the, the, the, the, I will forgive them pretty much anything for giving me this, but then, without the modding community, l probably have turned my back on it ages ago, so there is that.

[@fransmith3255]

@@bettysteve322716 It's definitely not the best city builder. Workers and Resources far, FAR outdoes CS1, let alone CSII. So much so that it's not even a competition.

[@bkane573]

Their Stellaris team is amazing.

[@Label07]

Valve should extend this policy to early access games that are abandoned/scams as well...

[@MarionetteKazuko]

To be fair there is a large warning for early access games that they may not progress beyond the point it is, essentially buy at your own risk.

[@epgamer1145]

If you do not see the warning that comes with the early access title, that is ultimately on you for falling for those scams. If someone starts an early access project, they should be capable to work on it until it is in it’s finished state or have private keys handed to content creators to cover the current state of the game without taking the time of players. Pretty straight forward dedication and marketing for any beginner dev team.

[@KingTUMMAN]

EA game is support at your own risk I still prefer paying for these indy to see them improving a game bit by bit for 5-6 years instead of paying for unfinished full release game tbh

[@wakaneut]

There's a loophole of that, the dev can just release the latest build as "version 1.0" and claimed it's no longer in early access.

[@PlushieMaxxing]

@@wakaneut *cough* 7D2D *cough*

[@JakeBake2113]

After all these years valve still seems to care about its customers unlike every other large company (and still makes fire games)

[@TarsonTalon]

The digital storefront equivalent of a retail store realizing they're stocking empty boxes, and that the customers are going to be angry with them, rather than the supplier...

[@thuynder]

I'm a gamedev with a couple released games on Steam... and this is a great change to see. The big, shitty, AAA studios NEED to collapse so that games are made for players once again.

[@childofnewlight]

Also, players need to STOP paying for this crap. They only continue to do it because players keep giving them money.

[@deadspline3252]

What games :)

[@xypherath]

What games have you made?

[@kaof1958]

@@xypherath whataboutism, please apply critical thinking

[@xypherath]

@@kaof1958 wtf are you talking about?

[@BeastGamingHD]

Anyone who purchases season pass versions of a game or season pass bundles that are unreleased, Valve should hold those funds and not payout the developer or publishing company until the content is released. This way companies will realize the importance of what they're selling and promising and actually commit to it.

[@azahel542]

I look forward to seeing which developer or publisher will be the first to weasel their way around this.

[@AlexanTheMan]

It's going to be a toss up between Activision and EA.

[@code_renard]

@@AlexanTheMan Normally just cuz I like some EA's games like Dead Space, Apex (when it was good), Need For Speed, and Jedi Fallen Order, I would've put the bet on Activision, but honestly, I'm very confident that EA will be the first one.

[@Sas-ym4gg]

Ubisoft with their Star Wars outlaw approved roadmap - they won’t deliver because the game was trash and flopped.

[@t3arki113r]

I can already see them trying to turn this on Valve “We feel untrusted by Steam and refuse this as it means Valve is rushing us to put out our content without it being completely done. This will result in us not being able to promise future content without the prepaid support of our consumers.” or some bs like that.

[@slyseal2091]

@@t3arki113r as has been pointed out, they can just refuse them any presence on the platform. There already was a time where half of these companies tried to split off from steam, and me talking in past tense is more than informative enough on how that went. They're also too rich to be gridlocked by lawyers.

[@Lightscribe225]

So EA can't cancel deluxe editions with impunity anymore.

[@mariuszszewczyk2277]

Valve and steam are actually amazing for us. Never take it for granted. You need look no further then PlayStation or Xbox stores, or even epic, to realize how good we have it.

[@soulsolis3096]

Things like these makes me FEAR for Steam for when Gabe Newell himself eventually Passes Away. I sincerely hope anyone who replaces him won't be bad or worse...! 😭

[@tymondabrowski12]

If praying worked, Gabe Newell would be immortal judging by the amount of times I've seen similar comments.

[@mahmoodalmahmood7014]

​@@soulsolis3096 if the company becomes publicly traded. Its cooked.

[@somewhereelse1235]

Gabe has explicitly gone on record stating that his son is his chosen successor. If even half his morals and teachings have been passed on, the company is in good hands.

[@Don69420]

Gaben himself has said he doesnt plan on dying, ill take his word

[@soulsolis3096]

@@somewhereelse1235 That's somewhat reassuring...

[@chrisg8989]

"Prey I don't alter the deal further." - Gabe Probably

[@BoisegangGaming]

*Pray

[@teddychu1177]

@@BoisegangGaming Both work :P

[@nebs6888]

@@teddychu1177 No. No they don't. Only one of them work like that. Why would you say something so wrong? (These definitions are in fact not definite;) Pray is to, well. Y'know, pray, to try commune to a higher entity in the hopes of a specific outcome usually. Or just hope with a more spiritual undertone. Prey meanwhile is part of the Predator and Prey dynamic in nature. Now even if you make the assumption that Gabe is calling the Publishers Prey (which wouldn't fit and would be weird) the rest of the sentance is still absolutely broken : "Prey, I don't alter the deal further." What does that mean? Why is Gabe telling this so called prey he won't(?) alter the deal further? What sense does that make? That's the kicker. It doesn't, cause Prey doesn't work in place of Pray. So why did you say that exactly? So confidently with that tongue sticking out emoticon and everything? Did you think this was a colors versus colours situation? Did you never hear of the word "Prey" before this? Or did you assume it was a minute (time) versus minute (size) thing? I'm really intrigued on how you got so much confidence that upon seeing someone correct something your first instinct was to dismiss their correction despite lacking the competence to see that they were right? Do you do this often in your life? As a hypothetical if you saw someone saying "Man I want to deep fry this chicken but I'm out of peanut oil" would you confidently tell them to use butter instead? Even if someone else there who knew better advised better? Would you just say "Oh both work?" Why did you say something so offensively incorrect?

[@lilplague4857]

Why prey?

[@Dragoninja833]

@@nebs6888 You told him! I prey he won't make that mistake again! You stopped him right than and their! That will have a lasting affect for sure! He won't make that mistake for the wrest of thyme! He's probably taking a back by your comment, but he will get over it. I wish eye could bee they're when his I's finally reed and sea you're comment! It hurt me to do this more than it hurt you; I want you to know this. This is your fault, though. YOU made me do this. Have a good day. I SAID, HAVE A GOOD DAY!

[@scottstottsgaming]

"Completely biased TOWARDS publishers, completely biased AGAINST developers, and completely EXPLOITATIVE of consumers." You left a part off.

[@lw8882]

Valve got taken to court in Australia by our consumer protection agency for not offering proper refunds, and lost millions. This looks like a pre-emptive strike against that happening again.

[@lw8882]

Well you covered that at the end I guess.

[@handson4580]

at least they are LEARNING unlike everyone else

[@bionicgeekgrrl]

They are currently being sued in the uk iirc and have some potential legal cases pending.

[@Etheral101]

I wonder if those millions went to players or the governments back pocket

[@MrMoon-hy6pn]

@@Etheral101 that’s not how governments work. Usually money the government makes or raises goes back into projects or helps funds government programs like Medicare or Centrelink. So in a way it does go back to us.

[@Xdgvy]

Well, I guess that means Star Citizen won't be on Steam anytime soon.

[@alridan90]

That hurts man... mostly cuase i know its true

[@seasn5553]

That beta should stay away

[@piersM]

It was never going to be on Steam anyways. As money hungry as they are, why would they let Valve take part of their revenue? They have no reason to try and publish there.

[@jimmythecrow]

@@alridan90 good.

[@DamnedSilly]

You think Star Citizen will be _anywhere_ anytime soon?

[@Hyatice]

I can see "A new area and two new weapons" literally being released as a tiny room with a single chest in it behind a formerly locked door in a hub. I wonder if Valve will eventually put rules in place for unsatisfactory delivery. I also wonder if companies will fudge their delivery timelines on purpose to give themselves as much of a window as possible. E.g. 'Releasing q4 2025, q4 2026, q4 2027, q4 2028' and then they release them all within the first 2 years since that was their original plan.

[@micheljolicoeur6094]

PRIME EXAMPLE - Warcraft III Reforged, took preorders at Blizzcon with the game NOT even under development.

[@NTelling]

As much of a shit show as W3R was, that's not a good example here because it's not a battlepass. This video specifically states that pre-orders are exempt from these rules. Also, there were existing laws in Europe that protected customers from pre-ordering digital goods that weren't delivered in an appropriate time. This is actually the reason why W3R was so garbage: Blizzard had to choose between publishing an incomplete game or refunding some of the pre-orders.

[@ant3641]

@@micheljolicoeur6094 should teach peopke not to preorder. Everybody crying about game industry this and that, but in the end only voting with your wallets counts. If people didnt preorder and buy microtransactions, there would be none of it.

[@quineloe]

@@NTelling What's the appropriate time? I'm not aware of the EU regulation you are referring to.

[@crazydude5825]

​@@NTellingSeason Pass, not Battle Pass please. There's enough confusion with those terms as it is. Battle Pass is the Fortnite garbage every live service has to have now.

[@NTelling]

@@crazydude5825 Sorry, force of habit. First iteration of this monetisation method was from Dota and is where the term Battle Pass originates iirc, so it's what I've always called it.

[@AlexanTheMan]

Next step: Prohibit third party launchers.

[@Sgt_Glory]

@@AlexanTheMan that would be a day to enshrine in history.

[@TheDragonfriday]

Including third party login

[@madmax2069]

​@@TheDragonfriday especially for a single play game

[@megaman37456]

Next Step: Ban PSN.

[@PragmaticTornado]

The number one thing I want. I tolerate it when it's just a splash screen with an optional login feature, like Cyberpunk and Baldurs Gate 3, but forced logins means it's far less likely I buy the game.

[@pedrojustice]

9:40 THAT that is what needed to be said to all DEVS and publishers stop being politicians and promissing things in the future while asking for money

[@Valoric]

This is shocking it wasn’t standard before. Good guy gaben. Now everyone else needs to catch up with updated store policy

[@GLynham]

Saints Row IV DLC: Enter the Dominatrix was supposed to be part of the season pass but was cut and added to the next game, they didn't even offer a discount to those that paid for the season pass .

[@635574]

Wow never knew there was such a thing as season pass preorder.

[@kaof1958]

@@635574 That's why this is happening, this will shine light on a lot of studios which means a bright day for gamers

[@TheDuckMan2523]

Not only do steam have the best controller support on PC, not only do they allow you to use them as a launcher for anything you want, not only can you sell steam keys wherever you like, but they regularly push to make the industry better for their customers, I don’t like their monopoly in theory but in practice I can’t see any better way

[@RedMageGaming]

This is gold. because these companies need the fear of loss put back into them. They have become to reliant on selling things they have not made yet, to gain the capitol to justify making them. And that's just been such a shite way to do business and invites failure that harms only the consumer. But as a consequence, harms the platforms. And in this case, Valve have taken steps to protect their platform. It's a consumer positive move, but it's not a move made altruistically. It's a move made to protect steam as a platform, because if people lose faith in steam because developers/publishers keep doing bad things like this and can just get away with it, then people will slowly move away from not just those developers but the platforms that facilitate that behavior. And I see this is going to overall be a positive for us the consumers, but it's going to take a few mishaps before it really settles in. There are going to be companies that don't take it seriously enough and screw up hard enough to make valve act on their new terms. And these refunds are going to shut someone down. That's when companies will start paying real attention. After one flies too close to the sun and pays the price.

[@TheTrueMilery]

@15:20 its not soon, it's now, people have already stopped trusting most publishers. Everyone has a couple companies they trust still, but the expectation is that games will launch broken, and be filled with overpriced microtransactions

[@GTSW1FT]

Yeah, like the only real developer that most still have hope for is fromsoftware.

[@Evan-hm7tz]

As someone who mostly sticks on the wayside and sees the reviews by like... Charlie and stuff, yeah no, it's happening NOW. I expect games to be launched broken, I expect people to be ripped off by the devs. I understand that AAA games take a lot of time to produce, there's a lot of different options and such, along with modeling times and especially scripting. But Rockstar has it correct, giant waits on games, but when they release it, it's a slam dunk on the entire gaming market because they actually take their time.

[@andariel654789]

When Persona 3 Reload was available for pre-order, the Steam page described the 100$ edition as containing "ALL purchasable content for the game". What's important about that is the director of the project announcing in interviews that the game would not include a bonus story campaign which was in the PS 2 edition of the game. Then in May, Atlus released the trailer for the "Expansion Pass" which consisted of 3 "waves" of content: 1. Additional Costumes 2. Additional OST 3. The previously "not included" bonus story campaign. The kicker about it being, the first two items were available for free while the gameplay aspect demanded another 35$. After this Expansion Pass was announced, Atlus went and changed the Steam page to say that the 100$ edition would include ONLY the costumes and OST.

[@CyanDumBell_MC]

Publishers definitely gonna abuse Early Access next

[@zimriel]

next?

[@balsalmalberto8086]

Warner Bros already did that with Lego Worlds. A complete massive waste of potential. It's a clunky incomplete shell of what it promised. They designed it to sell DLC packs but later abandoned it completely.

[@raizors1331]

Wait this hadn't already happened for ages???

[@nicholasholloway8743]

Yea they HAVE been already lol

[@RhondaFizzleflint]

Please Gabe, you need to take care of yourself! Eat healthy, do sports! We gamers need you for years to come.

[@ImNotSimon_totally]

he already lost a lot of weight recently afaik

[@eudaemxnia2481]

I wish everyday valve was a public company. I love that they're private and have made no indication of that changing but if I could I would invest everything I have in them.

[@Mirality]

Being a private company is exactly why they can be so pro-consumer. They don't have to pander to investment funds that don't care about games, only dollars.

[@Martinit0]

@@Mirality Amazon is also famously pro-consumer. Just need to have an owner-CEO with balls, tbh.

[@kemcolian2001]

​@@Martinit0 Well amazon also makes it's workers piss in water bottles, so It's not exactly a good comparison. Valve being privately traded is what allows them to treat both their customers AND their employees well, rather than sacrificing one for the other.

[@MR0KITTY]

I wonder if Valve will order refunds for KSP2, since the dev no longer exists.

[@yodaman8015]

kerballing

[@Besend522]

No. You can't enforce rules retrospectively. And ksp2 was an early access game, not a season pass. Usual ea rules still apply

[@TheAzazzExperience]

Now they need to do something about abandoned early access projects by major publishers without saying anything about the state of the game. KSP 2

[@B0neTV]

@@TheAzazzExperience Indeed, they way they treated the supporters should be illegal, everyone who purchased KSP2 should have a full refund.

[@balsalmalberto8086]

Lego Worlds

[@Turamwdd]

Unfortunately, those don't break the conditions of Early Access UNLESS it can be proven that the publisher never intended to release the game. That is the risk of buying EA.

[@kaptnawesome]

Likely to see 1: DLCs pushed out the door before they are ready to prevent mandatory refunds 2: Less ambitious DLCs that are easier and faster to produce (i.e new monsters = a couple of reskins of existing monsters) 3: More content cut from base games so that publishers can release it later and call it a DLC The policy seems like a good step, but there are definitely ways around it that publishers already do. They will likely just do them more often and/or more blatantly.

[@ShuckleII]

Policy like this is so needed in this industry, I'm glad Valve is taking action. One game that doesn't pass the rules (afaik) is Persona 3 Reload. In the beginning, the offered a season pass, it said "future DLC". Now, that season pass doesn't include either of the two biggest DLCs we expected from them, the "The Answer" chapter OR the female main protagonist version (which I'm not confident if it's even gonna release considering Atlus' shadiness). Now the game lists an "expansion pass", which only contains "The Answer". Awful.

[@watchdoge6464]

That one was the worst offender. Literally a scam

[@Aleuvian]

Remnant II only just recently released the 3 DLCs they promised with a purchase bundle on launch. They missed their deadline by almost half a year.

[@EdgeLie]

not to mention their price.....

[@simrock_]

Thinking about it, there might actually be a case where Valve might be found theoretically liable. In a few EU countries the seller is on the hook if the product sold is not as promised. I don't think this has actually been tested in court for games, but if they sell you a season pack with X features and the developer/publisher does not deliver, it's still valve that might be on the hook for the unfulfilled promise, though they could of course pass it on to the developer.

[@Psydvckthefirst]

Game descriptions and “promises” are written on steam pages by the publishers hr team, not by steam employees or even if they do they are probably just given what to write from the publisher, if they didn’t develop the game how they can write descriptions? You can’t expect them to check every promise but a fair refund sounds nice.

[@IIBraderz]

Big glaring issue now is some companies are just going to throw anything out to meet those deadlines if they don't, as long as it fits the vague idea they're required to include like '2 new weapons' they can still push out unfinished DLC or something simple thrown in just to avoid refunds. This is great but I'm just looking at it from a realistic POV, when this is actually going to be enforced in a few months time and is applied to companies who don't follow through on promises.

[@Jim-x1i]

Gabe runs a tight honest ship. Gabe truly is a good hearted person.

[@GamerNym]

"Such that soon, people will just expect shit" Soon? That's the expectation now. We already know we're going to get treated like subhuman garbage, and it's already too late to change that.

[@sillyking1991]

its not too late to change that. it *will* take time to change that though, and a committed effort by gamers.

[@omgpickle]

This is why I buy games 1-5 years after release. It's finally done developing. Servers might shut down soon then though lol.

[@Cointelpronoun]

Do you keep in mind there is some ass covering going on here. Steam could be on the receiving end of a class action lawsuit and could have joint and severalable liability with a PC publisher who pulls shenanigans with the season pass and doesn't give people refunds. In which case both steam and the publisher would be liable and if the publisher couldn't pay, such as if they went bankrupt, it would all be on steam. Publishers doing season passes and then going out of business is a liability for steam. This will disincentivize them from doing that and also if they do do that, they have to put their money with their mouth is sooner rather than later.

[@jamesbaron8387]

@Cointelpronoun to be fair most companies dont bother doing this abd just do it till they can take the pathetically snsll fine for it. So even then valve is still doing goodcompared to mist companies

[@murderbean0]

no, this isn't true at all and doesn't actually make sense if you consider there are and have been other distributors who haven't gone under because of a product they sold being the subject of a class action. It also doesnt make sense in general because it's not as if other places don't sell these games so blaming one distributor doesn't make sense unless the distributor themselves are the problem. this is akin to saying target is going to go bankrupt because of the class action against nintendo for defective switch consoles, as if you cant buy a switch on amazon, walmart, gamespot, etc. class action lawsuits happen all the time. way, way more than you think. let alone, this is an industry that pre-sales are the norm, is widely understood that what you bought might never be delivered, is very often defective upon sale, and even then the product typically isn't refundable. no, a case against steam as distributor to assume the weight of the publisher would never get off the ground considering how it would make the market so volatile that no one would act as a distributor for any games and the entire industry would bottom out (imagine if distributors were sued after cyberpunk was released with the mass returns they faced across most platforms) it seems to me this is an attempt future-proof the industry after a year of some of the lowest sales in a while. the law has, historically, ruled as long as you promise you will eventually deliver a product, you dont need to refund people even when you havent released the product in such a long time that the consumer presumes the product will not be released (this has been the court ruling for a few kickstarter initiatives). by putting in conditions on release dates and restrictions with season passes, they are circumventing rulings like those. pre-orders are used as sales projections by industry execs to coerce investors to throw money in the trash and public trading means having an obligation to shareholders for yoy increases in company valuation (which some have been failing). when a dev/publisher says "we cancelled the rest of the dlc bc the game sold poorly, hey season pass people thanks for your free money", it is perfectly fine currently under the law. the more common this becomes especially with lower sales in general and people gripping their wallet tighter, plus lessening trustworthiness of the industry is overall, it is in valve's best interests to put in place some pro-consumer agreements with their storefront that will increase consumer trust. i'd imagine this will actually bolster sales which will help everyone in particular games struggling due to weariness of players after being burned since they can have confidence valve will have their back (whether that's true is yet to be seen but that shouldnt need to be said)

[@SliceLeedice]

That's actually good, when a game offers an item, content or a feature in a bundle or season pass then label it as "future" DLC then people buy that game because they see something in that game to look forward to, it should have an estimated deadline alongside what it contains. The moment a developer team even shows whatever "teaser" for future release or DLC they should already be confident that they can deliver that product even if it's delayed for a bit. Promises of future content or DLC's are broken in a lot of games due to many vague "future content" included in season pass or bundles and when those "future content" finally arrives, the players have already moved on to a different game because there was no clear indication time table as to when it will be added or worse, it never arrives.

[@Genny207]

It's nice to see something that hasn't been completely ruined by investors for once.

[@arbitervildred8999]

video starts at 3:50

[@creoleninja58]

Thank you kindly

[@Ann_QwQ]

The goat

[@1k_Sassy]

BTW if the channel doesn't make money, no video will start.

[@TheMultiTasker3]

@@1k_Sassy It's not like the Ads that KZbin inserts into the video. You don't have to watch a sponsored segment for the creator to be paid. I recommend the SponsorBlock extension, for that purpose.

[@Slaraffus2750]

@@1k_Sassy Cool, don't care, though.

[@victor-ling]

14:56 "It's not a slap on the wrist, it's a clear financial punishment" ... I know you're just using this as a casual phrase but boy doesn't this phrase really show the problem with the current publisher culture. Not getting the money for something you promised on but failed to deliver isn't actually a punishment at all! That's just normal behaviour. It would be a punishment if they were fined additionally (which I am not advocating for) ... I mean if I were hired by a games publisher and I promised to deliver them an amazing website for $X and they will get it in 6 months ... and then I just don't deliver it. You think I'm going to be able to be like "whoops sorry ... anyways here is your money back better luck next time" and just walk away, no they will be coming after me for breach of contract and suing me for MORE money to cover things like damages.

[@MrMozkoZrout]

The whole gaming industry still has pretty weird predatory practices in it that came from the era of physical media and that make much less sense today. And that is mostly pre-orders. Like what are you even preordering it for ? it's a digital content, there is unlimited amount of copies. They actually invented fake limitations just to validate preorders and special editions which are like more toxic evolution of pre-orders. Like why. And DLCs are another thing. Yeah additional content is nice but damn the whole concept of DLCs could get modernised a bit today as well since it's not a literal datadisk anymore.

[@Pladderkasse]

Thank you for saving TF2 from the bots, Gabe. And for this. You're a stand up dude.

[@glenndoiron9317]

Wait. What? I gave up on TF2 probably more than 10 years ago, tried it again about 2 years ago and it was a botfest. What happened?

[@dr.stonks2422]

@@glenndoiron9317they had a massive banwave a few months ago, with casual now being in a playable state

[@gravity00x]

I absolutely love how passionate you are about this. Finally someone saying it how it is. Publishers have been able to get away with incredibly unethical behavior towards their customers for way too long. Valve too, they invented the battlepass and manipulated customers in dota2 for so long, that eventually those customers didn't want to buy it anymore.... the aftermath was so bad that valve was forced to abandon the battlepass.

[@SirSithly]

What you said at the end is exactly what companies will do, they will just release the DLC broken.

[@ogre7699]

Valve might not get everything right, but when they do? Mother of god, do they get it right. Now we just need them to tell third party launchers and requiring accounts for single player games to piss off.

[@pcdeltalink036]

No PSN required either. Stupid as hell to require that on PC

[@BasilBard]

I do like how this still gives some breathing room for devs, so long as they are honest in their practices and transparent with their audiences, that way no one's fucked over by external circumstances forcing a delay. Plus, having room for negotiation with Valve lets them avoid penalties due to loss of infrastructure to shit like natural disasters, since Valve will probably be a lot more lenient to a smaller company that lost their shit to a flood or anything like that.

[@Domtronic]

They have an entire year. I wont be shedding any tears.

[@barrysmithers5816]

That was an interesting point at the end. If the publishers force devs into pushing out half-baked parts of a season pass, Valve will need to start allowing refunds for that. Which I can imagine is (for them) going to get very complicated, very quickly...

[@kayurn3669]

Is it possible it might even self regulate? If people own a season pass with garbage DLCs, the reviews of the season pass itself would be pretty negative and would end up pushing players away from buying it? I’m just guessing on that, but it would maybe still incentivise half decent DLCs to be released if they actually wanted players to buy it?

[@thethievesdomain8360]

This is a major win. Now if we can actually, you know, OWN OUR GAMES.

[@brucesim2003]

It seems reasonably pro-consumer. Now what's the backhand? You know there's gotta be one.

[@thethievesdomain8360]

@@brucesim2003 This is to save face over the recent backlash at a law change I bet. It IS a good change, but if buying isn't owning then pirating isn't stealing.

[@axellenhart7890]

Hey man, no one cares

[@thethievesdomain8360]

@@axellenhart7890 Cared enough to leave a comment

[@sillyking1991]

@@brucesim2003 i mean, the backhand is that steam is tired of getting its shit kicked in because devs are treating its players like shit. there's plenty of monetary motivation for steam to make this type of change, i don't think most people are assuming that this is entirely due to altruism.

[@jerryt87]

Now refund Kerbal Space 2. The game has been abandoned, but is still listed on Steam.

[@Besend522]

For gods sake season pass and your problem of buying early access games are not the same thing

[@nicholasholloway8743]

​@@Besend522yes you got a point. I got KSP 2, the only difference is I KNEW what I was getting into B4 o got it, o knew it would either flop or take many years to be decent

[@CorrosiveCitrus]

​@@Besend522they should change the colour of early access/preorder/season passes to yellow to bring more attention that you're taking a risk with your purchase (maybe with a brief comment to cement it)

[@Besend522]

@@CorrosiveCitrus There is a big "THIS IS EARLY ACCESS" block above the button that you press to buy the game.

[@CorrosiveCitrus]

@@Besend522 Yeah but it's nice and blue, the same colour as the rest of the page -- the average person just doesn't get it

[@bulkvanderhuge9006]

Bethesda would've HATED THIS. Especially with Fallout 4.

[@WastedCarnage]

This is a positive restriction to the companies and hopefully brings good dlcs coming to light. Can we trust those companies? Since steam is a big platform for majority of gamers on pc we have a help of father Gabe. Also, valve working on their own games "does" help. Let us hope it's not only Deadlock they are working on.

[@nathanharmon8971]

Thank you Valve! If these companies need a loan to ship their product, they need to go to a bank. All of this coming to consumers for a crowdfunded loan (which is what preorders are) is so out of hand.

[@pumpkinsoul12]

stalker devs are in prague rn and have been for a while, the dev that died in the war was a clear sky dev that wasn't among the current ones

[@henryaung7229]

Now that console sales are weak and first-party games move to multi-platform, PC/Steam has huge leverage to start strong arming developers now into behaving

[@FamiliarAnomaly]

Wall Street/investor class poisons all artistic vidya companies - be it film, tv, video games, etc.. they turn good companies into bad ones.

[@Laceon1]

I just bought astroneers and found out they put mtx. I asked for a refund on that alone and valve was kind enough to help. 🎉

[@SimuLord]

That's great. Now do the same thing for Early Access games.

[@charlestrudel8308]

because they may just all go the early access route now...

[@KOBKStreak]

Well you do get access to a game and play it, so in your take, it'll be shutting E.A down completely

[@jackie.p6891]

isn't early access technically also a promise for future content? I hope they do offer refunds on these because I got a bone to pick with T2 interactive.

[@SimuLord]

@@KOBKStreak Considering how many E.A. games never get finished because they're initially released as glorified proof-of-concept demos rather than games actually with a real, genuine roadmap to a clear vision of a 1.0 release (and beyond), shutting down Early Access may not be such a bad thing. Unless it's reformed and would-be devs are held accountable. You want to sell the promise of a future game to people? You better be ready to put your mouth where other people's money is.

[@KOBKStreak]

@@SimuLord Then don't buy Early Access. There has to be some responsibility with the buyers AND the sellers. THAT has always been the known risk with E.A; it might not hit 1.0.

[@maximilianniedernhauser1950]

xmas arrived early this year thank you valve/steam thank you gabe

[@StayAtHomeGamer9000]

As a deluxe ultimate super whatever purchaser of CS2, its about damn time we get compensated

[@Besend522]

You won't be. You can't force anything retroactively. Only the season passes made after this rule was made will apply

[@Nick-rs5if]

Other companies: OMG VALVE IS A MONOPOLY! HOW ARE THEY GETTING AWAY WITH THIS!? Valve:

[@Nick-rs5if]

For those r/wooosh types. Valve has the biggest platform in the gaming space on PC, because gamers simply does not want to use any other platform, save maybe GOG. Steam is just that good. And Valve is consistently making it better. The only way to make Steam less of a monopoly would unironically be to enforce enshittification upon it by law, or let incompetent investors run amok on it. That would also work.

[@Toniscampers]

Love sponsor block, it gets ya right to the point and cuts out the garbage

[@shawnlanphear3588]

"a company that cant keep to its promises should go under" 🙌

[@Ares180BPM]

I wonder if it's retroactive? As A Destiny 2 player, I no longer have access to DLC I purchased as it was later removed from the game.

[@Besend522]

You cant force anything retroactively

[@GreySectoid]

In gaben we trust

[@UltraZippyYT]

Take Two, Private Division and Kerbal Space Program 2 would definitely pass the new test right,?can't believe they weren't mentioned but that would probably be a whole extra video on the s-show

[@Riley_Christian]

if valve doesn't release their new VR headset in 3 months, I WILL CONSIDER ACTION!

[@kyledabearsfan]

imagine if we didnt have Valve and Steam. No other company would go to bat for the gamers like this.

[@SimuLord]

When their market power and our interests are on the same side, that's power indeed.

[@kyledabearsfan]

@SimuLord agreed, let's hope the decisions stay in our favor.

[@ablationer]

If a publisher closes a studio within six months of releasing a game, ban them from publishing anything on Steam for 5 years.

[@Katana314]

@@ablationer Bye, Microsoft Games Studios!

[@Lil.Yahmeaner]

@@Katana314honestly one of the worst devs out there