Ben Shapiro vs Destiny on Russia-Ukraine war | Debate - Lex Fridman Podcast

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GUEST BIO:
Ben Shapiro is a conservative political commentator, host of The Ben Shapiro Show, co-founder of The Daily Wire, and author of The Authoritarian Moment and other books. Steven Bonnell, aka Destiny, is a liberal political commentator and a live streamer on KZbin.
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[@LexClips]

Full podcast episode: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qorVlYCgi72shMk Lex Fridman podcast channel: kzbin.info Guest bio: Ben Shapiro is a conservative political commentator, host of The Ben Shapiro Show, co-founder of The Daily Wire, and author of The Authoritarian Moment and other books. Steven Bonnell, aka Destiny, is a liberal political commentator and a live streamer on KZbin.

[@mumbairay]

Watch 20 days in mariupol No one should wish anyone to be a 'buffer state' Maybe one country can be a buffer state that I'm thinking of...

[@fasteddie2413]

Not a word about the hundreds of thousands of lives lost.

[@scooors541]

Both clowns, I think a normal person who is busy with his life doesn’t even know them 2. I read somewhere that the people who listen Shapiro/ Andrew Tate/ Peterson are people who got fired 1-2 times from their jobs

[@antonionotmyrealnamo6333]

Agreed. The flower of both societies is being hollowed out. Neither side had the men to throw away either, usually that's how foreign wars work. In this case the loss of manpower will be felt in a very dire way.

[@passenger1209]

That is already implied, it's also inevitable, there's nothing to discuss about that because we are all aware that war is bad and people lose their lives in it.

[@diond9927]

its a war.. what you expect is going to happen? Russia to launch a rocket full of flowers ?

[@mobstakon1]

​@@scooors541I listen to all 3 often and have never been fired from a job in my life 😊😅

[@dmytrom.3010]

when it comes to Israel - that is the right, the moral, judeo-christian and other bs to do. when it comes to Ukraine - that is real politics ;) Ben is so ben

[@locybapsi174]

He's a typical conservative hypocrite. There are hypocrites on all sides, this is a perfect example of conservative hypocrite.

[@aleczelensky5925]

Cant believe how close minded they are. Conflict in Israel, Huties, Iran and possible Taiwan and Korea, got only one root, that Russia wasnt been punished straight on spot of invasion. Nations as Iran, N.Korea got no remorse to human live, and got nothing to lose. They can achieve something only through chaos on west. And they push western civilization as far as you let them. Let in Russia continue massacre in Ukraine, send clear messages, that US not stand for its alliess and obligations. That world order and international laws clearly not working. How long it would be to somene try to test NATO 5th article? And would it work then, and how it will? Where is gurantee NATO would not act same as it been in Ukraine? After US fail Ukraine on gareantees of Geneva Memorandum, its clear for everyone that only guarantee of sovereignty is- nukes. And after that noone can denied any nation to have it. It start from civilized nations as Germany and Poland, but if it OK for them who can stop least civilize nation from have it. So after you leave Ukraine on Russian feast, we find ourself in world full of nuclear country's, full of chaos, where autoritarian country's push on western cociety, whom only wish to hold at their comfortable past, but drown in chaos reality, and keep steping back, for more aggressive and hungry nations. In few decades youll need to explain your daughter while she need wear hidjab, or your son why he's working two shifts on Chinese factories, or dig oil on Russian Alaska. But youll have nice wall with Mixico, though...Congratulations!

[@jeffswingdancer8302]

Security guarantees are B.S. Ukraine already received guarantees in exchange for giving up the nuclear weapons that were on their territory when the Soviet Union collapsed. Look at what those guarantees got them.

[@AlexKaehler-qc8kd]

Ukraine never had a defense treaty. The Budapest memorandum never obligated anybody to use their military. If it's a agreement to sell weapons or give some intelligence that's pretty vague and always up to whoever the president is at any given time

[@confidential02]

yeah and nato to not expand east

[@tomreks8990]

@@confidential02 Lol seems like you have not read them your self

[@psyantologist]

Days before the invasion, Selenskij said that he no longer feels bound to the Budapest memorandum. He got lots of applause at the Munich Security Conference for that speech, pretty much threatening Russia that he will arm Ukraine with nuclear weapons. That was the last red line. Tough luck. Gambled and lost

[@martstam2016]

Ukraine lost nukes as Khazakhstan, Belarus, Uzbekistan ...etc lost as well. It was about to reduce nuclear proliferation so ex USSR nukes went to RF as the most reliable and structured partner to keep them, destroy them and not sell to anyone. Don't forget that gunrunning was big deal im East Europe with Ukraine leading the pack. It was right decision, Sadam didn't get it, Osama didn't as well. Fair deal.

[@griffonu]

Beyond the topic, which is important and very serious, these two guys seem to be into a race about who talks the fastest.

[@joescott8877]

Right? I was annoyed cos I had to keep changing the speed from 1.75 to 1.25 to avoid the blender effect, lol!

[@sean_haz]

Didn't notice, watched it on 2x

[@jeffswingdancer8302]

Shapiro should take a tranquilizer before each appearance.

[@Gingerhannah23]

You are too right- I think the drug of choice here starts with the letter A? Lol

[@tannerwhitaker8703]

@@sean_hazwas actually just 1x speed haha

[@vicomte5047]

This has so much " Hitler will stop at the Sudetenland" energy its kind of sickening.

[@imyarek]

I don't condone what Putin is doing in Ukraine by all means, but you're wrong on a whole lot of levels. 1) Both the British and the French knew that a war with Germany was almost inevitable at that point, one of the good example of that was the construction of the Maginot line by French. So nobody actually believed that Hitler would stop, they were just buying time. 2) The whole comparison between Putin and Hitler is ridiculous because Hitler was quite clear in his intentions to control Europe and also to exterminate or enslave other races like Jews and Slavs, Putin made no such claims. 3) Putin "only" wants Belarus and Ukraine back as either a part of Russia or a part of some defensive union or at least in a completely neutral state because for the last 500 years both of these regions/countries have served as buffer zones against all invasions from the West - even during the Swedish invasion of Russia the final battle of the war happened on the territory of modern Ukraine (the Battle of Poltava). I guess if China starts making aggressive moves towards Russia, like creating some sort of military alliance with Mongolia and Kazakhstan without Russia than Russia might do the same thing in those two countries, too. 4) Hitler was around 50 when he started his invasions, Putin was 70 - he simply doesn't have time or strength to invade NATO countries (Baltics, Poland, etc.)

[@vicomte5047]

@@imyarek russia has f****** nukes. No one on earth is going to invade russia. Dont be f****** ridiculus. Russia has signed and broken multiple treaties guaranting ukrainian sovereingty. Why on earth should anyone believe any treaty russia is willing to sign. I have to sort of agree that putin is no hitler more like a russian mussolini but the sudetenland comparrison doesnt work as well then...

[@vicomte5047]

@@imyarek russia has nukes so there is no way anyone attacks them, so no reason for "justified" buffer states. the only thing this new appeasment these lunatics want to promote is that nuklear proliferation will end and everyone who doesnt want to be annexed by another nuklear power just gets nukes.

[@tylerstewart3181]

Nah, a hostile army has accepted countries on Russia's border after they previously agreed that they wouldn't. That army being NATO. If NATO is the Hitler in your comparison, then you're correct.

[@e12k4lt4]

​@@tylerstewart3181where did NATO promise such things. Also russia had multiple treaties guranteeing ukrainian territorial integrety and they broke that when they invaded, occupied and annexed crimea in 2014, while boldly lying about the whole thing.

[@clanholmes]

The guy who knows the most about the Ukraine/Russian conflict is asking the questions.

[@wingzero7316]

Just because lex is Russian don't mean he automatically knows more about what going on

[@PlanetWalking-qd8gv]

@@wingzero7316 it actually does

[@clanholmes]

@@wingzero7316 He is Russian/Ukrainian and he went over there after 2022 to see what was happening. Plus he is smart. He probably knows more than Shapiro on the Gaza crisis also.

[@baramis575]

@@PlanetWalking-qd8gv It actually doesn't and it's braindead to think that. I know more about China, Russia, Iran than 90% of Chinese, Russians and Iranians. I've even educated many Russians through language exchange apps.

[@ikaustralia]

Alex is mostly west leaning even though he's Russian.

[@chasestephens7568]

Ben Shapiro is just PAINFULLY ignorant on geopolitical strategy. Everything he just said here, is wrong. Not only why biden's admin did things a certain way, but also what Ukraine and Zelensky was capable of, what they have the right to push for, what Biden's admin did very well before the outbreak (intelligence gathering), etc. He's just clueless in this arena.

[@B..P..]

You have no idea what youre talking about. Biden and his Admin are completely clueless and america only got involved because Ukraine has dirt on Biden and deep state. Its all corruption and money laudering. In time the world will know.

[@Kaylbee]

I mean, the guy reasoned that climate change isn't an issue because if your house is getting flooded, then you just sell your house...but to who Ben? And if they're a sucker, who do THEY sell the house to? Ben Shapiro is....fill in your adjective.

[@chasestephens7568]

@@Kaylbee I'm convinced if you combine two things, 90% of the American public will consider you really intelligent. And thats, an accent (or strange way of talking, like jordan peterson) combined with talking fast and confidently, people will think you're smart. Even if everything you say is complete nonsense.

[@far-middle]

The Budapest Memorandum should be considered in any discussion on Ukraine, they gave up their nukes in exchange for our assistance in case they get attacked. If we dont help them we should expect more countries developing nuclear weapons.

[@AlexP-jz9sg]

Yes and the ”Ukrainian government” and the US breeched that memorandum during the 2014 coup, the unconstitutional installation of a russophobic government by the US that has not only attempted to join nato but has had nato military training facilities and personnel/exercises since 2015, Zelensky asked to host nato nuclear weapons before the invasion and the bombing of their eastern Ukrainian and Russian speaking population that didn’t recognize the coup starting in 2014. The Budapest memorandum required that the security interests of all signatories be satisfied.

[@katholischetheologiegeschi1319]

"Coup" the majority supported it in Ukraine​@@AlexP-jz9sg

[@relax3d]

There was no coup in 2014. Do you consider that there was a coup in every country that wanted independence from russia when the ussr fell apart?

[@katholischetheologiegeschi1319]

@@relax3d they believe that Kherson voted ...according to the russians... 87,5% for uniting with Russia. Now go and read about how many people in Kherson consider themselfs as "russian" and how many as "ukrainian" (before the war) Over 70% ukrainian. Somehow almost 90% there voted for the russian cause Of course that sounds convincing lol. They also ignore the fact, that according to their heroes like Prigozhin or Girkin Russia started the war in the donbas 2014 and ukraine never attacked civilians there. You can google it. They literally said that

[@clanholmes]

@@AlexP-jz9sg Were you there? I was. No fucking coup. Want to see a coup attempt, see Jan 6

[@aloken9250]

There is no limit to internet “know it alls”.

[@vii7031]

Why would Russia even think of accepting a peace deal now that the foreign aid to Ukraine is drying up? Wouldn't it make more sense to double down in Ukraine to get what they want instead of taking a US Instegated peace deal?

[@Valentyn90A]

The problem with Russia is that they themselves don't know what they want.

[@416raptor6]

Double down with what dude you are delusional

[@imyarek]

Because at the end of the day Russia is willing to invest more money into this than the US. Ukraine is important to the US to a certain extent but it's not Canada or Mexico.

[@YuraL88]

​@@imyarek russia can't invest into his own territories, not speeking about damaged infrastructure will take 10 years to restore. And simply, you dont need to destroy city to invest in.

[@NoName-ym5zj]

It's a no win scenario, in a sense that russia in unlikely to accept any deal as long as they are in Ukrainian territory. Ukraine has the upper hand? Well, russia definitly not going to surrender and leave Ukrainian territory without inflicting as much damage as possible. Ukraine is loosing? Well then they are definitly going to push as far as they can into Ukraine, at the very lease they will try to fully cease the regions they annexed, if they are succefull they will head to Kyiv to overthrow the government and install a puppet regime. So there is no scenario where russia accepts a peace deal as long as they are in Ukrainian territory. Now if they are pushed out of Ukraine, it will be up to NATO if russia is going to invade again or not, because after this point 2 scenarios are possible: Ukraine is promptly accepted into NATO and russia can safely end the war and save face by claiming they decided not to continue the war to save the world from WW3. The other scenario is that west decides that the war is over, they slowly stop sending aid to Ukraine as more countries flake off seeing as russia has been pushed out and the war is "over", but they are also too scare to accept Ukraine into NATO, so russia just keeps slowly exhausting Ukraine until a new invasion which will likely end in Ukraine being russian puppet state like Belarus and Ukrainian nation ceasing to exist as everything will be russified like it is in the occupied regions right now. So the only viable option for true peace, where Ukraine is free is to push russia out of Ukraine and then for the west to grow some balls and offer Ukraine either a NATO membership or another form of security guarantees similar to NATO membership.

[@mrsswindon]

i understand the argument for America having spent too much on foreign wars the past 3 decades but the amount of money they have actually sent to ukraine (or spent on hardware to send) is relatively nothing compared to what the U.S spent in Afghanistan and Iraq. It's obviously hard to put a number on how much you would be willing to spend. I think knocking out your 2nd biggest geopolitical enemy for any amount of money up to 500 billion would be a bargain and one of the best geopolticial moves in history, and yet we've actually only spent less than 100 billion so far. The only thing i disagree with Biden on, is that i think he should have been faster in pushing for tanks and jets to be sent to ukraine. Though i can also understand im just a random person not privy to state department information, so perhaps he legit through Putin would start throwing nukes if they escalated too quickly. Now it's obvious he is just bluffing (threat wears off when you threaten to use nukes every other day)

[@LoneWolf-rc4go]

You also have to remember that a lot of this 'aid' is last generation military technology that's sitting around in NATO armouries. I agree that the West needs to be actively pushing more weapons into Ukraine. I think that the West needs to accept that the Cold War is back on and that we're going to have to start dealing with the Russians and the Chinese as the geopolitical opponents that they actually are. We need to abandon globalism, pull back manufacturing, push more money into the military and start rebuilding alliances.

[@TristanM2013]

@mrsswindon There is a serious problem where Americans see every way in which we failed in the middle east and because of this they adopt a mentality that American foreign intervention will always do more harm than good. So now we find ourselves in a conflict that is morally one sided, economically one sided, and militaristically one sided, but we are so emasculated by the past that we can't do anything in the future. You're right, this is a huge moment in history to reduce the influence of Russia and the axis of dictators, while saving the lives of hundreds of thousands or maybe even millions, and we are squandering it for all the wrong reasons, and we have every reason to believe that it can get worse after this too. If China see's that America isn't committed to defending it's allies, Taiwan could be his next target. Iran feels no friction against it's funding of terrorist groups, Venezuela announces to the world it wants to invade Guyana, and all of the sudden the world looks like it could explode with a new world war, and it all can be prevented but for the foolishness of cynical western countries that have no concern for this oncoming tragedy.

[@SticksTheBug]

Neocon vs Neocon

[@jaredbogart5461]

What an aimless discussion. Lol... "most people could not articulate" when its quite clear neither of you are qualified to talk about this. Also, Destiny needs to lay off the Adderall, so we can see how his brain works without it.

[@curtf9813]

These two are successful political commentators so they’re more qualified than Jared from the KZbin comments. And most people fail to articulate their political beliefs..it’s apparent every time we go on social media

[@justabeardedguythatisahero9848]

Shut up destiny like hairy men ​@@curtf9813

[@TristanM2013]

@@curtf9813 Being successful doesn't make you a an expert on every topic, that's silly. Do you seriously think every youtube political commentator is qualified? Both these people get it wrong and wrong in every regard. Destiny calling equivalency between committing to Iraq and Ukraine is idiotic, as the wars are completely different between types of warfare and having clearly defined enemies, and Ukraine having an infinitely better support network. Ben criticizing the idea that we stand for democratic values is also a joke, we are allied with anti-democratic people but that is because it's better to have Turkey, Saudi Arabia as our allies than have them be allied to Russia, China. It's a more than one dimensional game, is the point, and you'd think a guy who studies these things for a living would know better if he had a rational mind. The fact of the matter is you don't need to know what you are talking about to be successful, you just need a narrative that people are willing to buy. The people that listen don't vet these opinions for bullshit, and they feel warm and cuddly when they affirm their beliefs Unironically I would take a strangers opinion at a bar with more consideration than either of these two on this subject, they are jokes

[@curtf9813]

@@TristanM2013 Ben isn’t just a “KZbin commentator”. He’s got a B.A. in political science..he also attended Harvard Law School. He’s the editor of The Daily Wire, he has a podcast, he writes columns for various magazines. He’s not an expert on every topic but he’s an expert on politics…that’s his job and as you said he’s successful at it. Not everyone on KZbin is qualified but if you have a degree in political science, study politics for decades, and accumulate $50 million commentating on it then you’re likely more qualified than other people. I’m guessing that you don’t think Ben or Destiny are qualified because neither of their viewpoints align with yours…but then again I’m sure you don’t have any qualifications or experience in politics.

[@WorkHarder-id8zd]

@@curtf9813 u cooked him ngl

[@blacktuskproductions9248]

Shapiro is out to lunch on the state of the Russian military ........ didn't realize he was this clueless

[@darthshima820]

Agreed

[@chidigit]

Totally agree. Well, that's what money and a sense of entitlement does to you. Blind delusion

[@Sneedmire]

Oh, he's been like that for quite some time on this issue. It's almost comical. (Which is why people need to save the receipts to remind him in the future of the fantasy he was repeating over and over.)

[@poppystars9005]

Ben forgot to mention we shifted the gas sales which was the real goal.

[@psyantologist]

Europe's largest prospected Lithium reserves are in the Donbass region of Ukraine

[@Kaiyening]

I don’t really think Ben Shapiro understands Russia and Ukraine at all. He should probably research it more. At least he’s not as bad as Jordan Peterson at it, though. Also, you probably don’t want to believe what Henry Kissinger said given his ties to KGB and Putin at the time.

[@javkhaa44]

I recommend watching this debate on 0.75 speed level. Both men speak relatively quick.

[@willvaughn6.395]

That’s because their spouting non sense lol

[@rudysmith1552]

Low IQ low processing speed

[@IaroslavVakatsiienko]

Remarks like ill-equipped russian military are hilarious are you serious? do you know that the war has been ongoing since 2014 and we were preparing? it seems so infant and harmful to talk about Ukraine in a so disrespectful way what will happen when the war ends? prosperity? or preparation for the next war? so maybe it is a good idea to end this war in a way that minimizes chances for the next one? Shapiro with his statement about Ukraine as a "buffered zone" also... seems like outside of US and Israel there should be a buffered zone

[@YaQ1988]

This interview is absolutely useless for US outsiders. Maybe only as educational video to see what opinions are amoung democrats vs repulicans. Both guests are talking for internal US audience.

[@biadhoce]

"Remarks like ill-equipped russian military are hilarious" You have been living under a rock. There were entire platoons calling out the government for leaving them stranded and in many cases, without supplies or ammo. How is calling the Russian army ill-equipped disrespectful to Ukraine? The only disrespect here, is disrespect to Russia. Ukraine is not Russia and never will be.

[@IaroslavVakatsiienko]

@@biadhoce that situation that people were begging government for ammo shows that the amount of people who standed against Russia was huge. It doesn't mean that we didn't have ammo at all. (we are one of the largest country in EU) It is disrespectful to talk about the war in Ukraine in a way that talks are only about russia, their ill equipped army, NATO, USA, everyone but not Ukrainians who actually fights in this war. This is one of the approaches that Russian propaganda uses a lot(there are no Ukrainians and if we all forget about Ukrainians there will be no war).

[@Dan-u1e]

Шкода, але в росії елементарно більше ресурсів для пропаганди власного бачення світу та зміни світогляду інших націй. Україна для американців є периферією, бо росія використовувала свої ресурси упродовж століть аби зробити нас ніким в очах решти світу. І до речі. У нас також під час обговорення багатьох тем дуже не україноцентричний підхід. Найпростіший приклад: коли йдеться про зросійщення нашого народу передусім згадують, яким чином це було вигідно для росіян, а не яким катастрофічними були наслідки цієї політики для нашої мови та культури, нашої історичної пам'яті. Або навіть коли говоримо Крим: про вигнання та втечу сотень тисяч українців і кримських татар після його окупації росією всі мовчать. Про той факт, що упродовж усього перебування Криму під контролем України там продовжувалася русифікація, а відсоток учнів у школах з українською мовою навчання був нижчим за відсоток тих, хто вказав українську мову рідною під час перепису населення теж всі мовчать. Про той факт, що російська на момент анексії вже була в Криму офіційною мовою, знову ж таки, мовчать. Кажуть лише про те, що бідні росіяни бачили українську зрідка в оголошеннях, на телебаченні та в кінотеатрі, і що взагалі українці злі, що використовували українську мову там, куди росіян імпортували. Це я ще мовчу, що зі стратегічного погляду Крим важливіший для України, аніж для росії. Це нас атакували з Криму у 2022-му, а не росіян

[@IaroslavVakatsiienko]

@@Dan-u1e про це все складно говорити для цього потрібна свідомість, знання, зрілість життя і без того трагічне нажаль тому я можу зрозуміти, що цього важко досягти в масштабах країни, якої б це не було а ось якщо це інтелектуальна еліта, якій довіряють люди які не мають стільки можливостей вникати в усе це, до неї вимоги інші але тут навіть лідери думок показують, що вони думають тільки про штати і не беруть до уваги зовнішніх загроз які б навпаки допомогли б їм обʼєднатись. жити в світі де кожен думає тільки за себе це якесь варварство

[@aldofromsf]

Neither one of these 2 millennials understands what's at stake here. Their point that the American public is not informed could apply to almost anything.E.g., name the first 4 offices in the line of succession. No one knows. This us why we have a constitutional republic where wiser men run the show on our behalf.

[@dokitops7389]

I respectfully utterly disagree with both. They bith compare Ukr Rus conflict with tge wars Iraq and Afghanistan. That just blows my mind on how wrong that take is.

[@justinkuffel]

We already gave ukraine security agreements. Unrealistic to get your own land back? I'm sure if Israel was invaded you would have a different opinion

[@stefanvladimirov3356]

everyone keeps saying the Russian military is wrecked but they keep pushing forward the denial does more harm then being upfront about it and actually coming up with counter measures

[@kladblok2729]

In the end it doesnt matter what people say or think, its about what happens on the battlefield. I always take these kinds of comments like a bag of salt.

[@CriticalThinking1776]

Any man who refers to himself as "Destiny" shouldn't be taken seriously

[@paulk.8681]

It’s just his “gamer name” / online brand name from his StarCraft days. His actual name is Steven lol

[@VaBellaBeautz]

Good old fashion rap battle 🤓 Excellent episode as always Lex 💙

[@Gingerhannah23]

Do you not feel like drugs are heavily in play here? They both seem to be under the influence of some type of stimulant like adderall or an equivalent. Maybe it’s just me, but I’ve know people who act like this and they were using augmented substances. Or do we not care anymore? Lol

[@dreamtobeapolyglot8444]

For such a smart guy Ben seems that he either doesn't know what really caused this war or he does and is misleading Americans.

[@Olodus]

As a Destiny fan, I definitely disagree with his take here. Then again, I am European and might have different thoughts about Russia's actual threat because of that. As we are the next in line, I will support continued defence-aid to Ukraine. I understand his argument from an american pov but I would hope they continue atleast some kind of support of course.

[@ivanaleksandartsanev1693]

You can be European, I'm European and from the Balkans, Bulgaria, so we were under Soviet occupation for 45 years. I know how dangerous Russia is. But the truth is you must have realistic goals, which means unless there is a strategy to win or to actually win back territories, blindly hoping something will happen as long as we all pour billions in Ukraine is just insanely stupid. What we all need to start thinking about is setting up our own power and resources, we need to as allies to be prepared and show strength to all our enemies in the world. I feel like a lot of people don't want to accept that as civilians, we might need to change and adapt our lives a bit to the new realities. We are no longer totally safe and under the illusion of world peace. That is totally unachievable in the current world affairs, it wouldn't just be crazy idealist view, it would be suicide to try and be purely pacifists. We need to start preparing for the worst scenarios, just so to show to our rivals that we won't allow them to achieve that or even think of that. Our weaknesses have allowed all these countries with goals for regional domination through any means necessary to strive.

[@V01DIORE]

@@ivanaleksandartsanev1693 They speak as if we're getting Afghanistan when in actuality we are forcing Russia into a 10x Afghanistan at a bargain deal with none of our soldiers on the ground. The goal is Russia gives up or folds in turmoil. Either way we only gain from cheaply destroying Russia's capacity. They broke the last peace agreements so unless they're giving back Ukraine's land Ukraine will not give up else it'd repeat. Furthermore if we cut off Aid to Ukraine they will only get more desperate taking the gloves off, they will target oil pipelines causing shortage, they can remake their nuclear weapons given their nuclear power plants (their scientists are primarily who made the USSR's capacity), they will mine Russia's waters preventing any shipment, and so on. It'll only make the risks greater by not aiding Ukraine.

[@elibrod9981]

Неблагодарные братушки в своем репертуаре..(

[@PoperoniNews]

Neither one of these two are the people to talk about this topic with the nuance required. Get on Dave Smith, Scott Horton, Connor Freeman. Anyone but these two clowns who will excuse tragedy as long as it suits their ideological position

[@kevaughnramsay9846]

Your comment proves you're a moron

[@AN-xi7sg]

Lex, speak about Ukraine with Ukrainians.

[@RenanMendes-zd8hj]

Which Ukrainians the ones that repeat the Ukrainian/Western propaganda, or those who see themselves being used in a special money laundering operation?

[@AN-xi7sg]

@@RenanMendes-zd8hj Only trolls or idiots ask that questions.

[@RenanMendes-zd8hj]

@@AN-xi7sg why? Because you really fall into the propaganda and think that every single Ukrainian wants to die in this madness? That every single Ukrainian supports the ultranationalists that holds Bandera as their national hero LOL 🫵😂 pathetic...

[@RenanMendes-zd8hj]

@@AN-xi7sg why? Because you think that every single Ukrainian wants to ⚰️, while the Ukrainian and western elites continue their Special money laundering operation? No wonder why the Ukraini4n recruitment are just kid-nap... People from the streets to ⚰️ for Bandera

[@Yankee_Uniform]

​@RenanMendes-zd8hj the ones fighting to the death for the freedom of their nation, peoples and culture.

[@tatianalyulkin410]

OMG, another " expert " on Ukraine! I think I'm gonna be sick.

[@mikemcconville2495]

Why did “Destiny” take on a stripper name?

[@nemiw4429]

He came out trans.

[@Thewhitekorean]

He came up as a StarCraft 2 streamer. Destiny is his gamer tag

[@anthonygratton422]

He's a beta male 😆

[@mikemcconville2495]

@@sthubbins4038 why do you care that I care? Is that all you take from my comment? Are you one of the alphabet people?

[@graurvadim3759]

This guy's have no f* idea what they talking about. Forcing Ukraine to leave their territory and sign peace treaty means that there will be a new war in the next 10 years. Russian society have a strong revanchist feeling and all post-soviet countries know about this. If you don't believe look at Chechen wars. First war in 95 was embarrassing for Russian army, they sign peace treaty but deep down they wanted revenge this why second war happened. I'm not talking about lives of people that was lost. Plus this will show US as weak country, allowing Russia to attack Baltic States. What will US do then? When you know about Israel only don't pretend that you understand everything.

[@gwzrd5675]

goals aren't clear for you because are obviously classified omg

[@Bazaras]

lol USA offered security guarantees, what about those securities in early 90s when Ukraine gave up Nuclear rockets for securities but in the end no one stepped in for Ukraine in 2014.

[@officialanimeedits]

Actually those nukes weren't of any use as Ukraine at that time didn't have an economy which was enough to "maintain" the nukes , also those were nukes given to Ukraine by Russia , Ukraine didn't know the nuclear codes . Quite ironically Ukraine gave those nukes back to Russia as Russia promised it won't attack Ukraine, you have to also understand at that time post WW2, Ukraine's leadership was very corrupt and had a heavy Russian influence.

[@frankbieser]

I find it interesting how when people discover that pork barrelling is a big part of the process of any bill getting passed through congress, as if this is something new. This has always been the case. No congress person gives their vote away. There's always a price for that vote. Whether it's an appropriation that helps their constituents or support for a different bill they're sponsoring. Doesn't matter if it's something they all personally agree is needed, they will still hold out their hands and demand something in exchange for their vote (or vote against).

[@pixels-dj8up]

Sad to see Lex Fridman's podcast comment section to be a ravenous breeding ground for Russian apologists and propagandists.

[@highdesertbiker]

Terrible debate

[@The_Known_Unknown_05]

Why?

[@Scotthutchinsonking]

Two fellas that pontificate but never sign up to go fight the wars they pontificate about .

[@djones1770]

What an insane comment lol

[@chalkandcheese1868]

Thanks Rambo

[@LoganChristianson]

Are you quoting Starship Troopers, or...?

[@Gingerhannah23]

You’re correct. All bluster and show behind the comfortable protection of academia and media influence. It’s lucky Shapiro wasn’t born in the motherland, or he would have been required to serve in the military.

[@AbcDino843]

Both guys have massive blind spots on foreign policy.

[@bradtaylor77]

Tell us more oh wise one

[@matakitaki1]

Ben has no idea what he is talking about

[@butch843]

I'll say.

[@stevenovack3434]

I dont think the calculation was that "they wont do anything". I think it was about winning the long game. Every other release about pretenses for war have been proven bogus. It's all about the endgame.

[@darlingimscared]

Maybe a video on where they disagree would be good that might be a new meta

[@JavierGonzalez-vj8zy]

Another reason why I do not respect people like Destiny.. When he mildly wants to criticize the Biden administration he goes "I hope that the Biden Administration learned about bad policies in Iraq and Afghanistan", so another case where he just downplay what the Biden administration is doing because if he would refer to what the Bush administration policies he would not call it bad policies but he would call it criminal neocon corrupts, but when the people he likes do the same then he just call them bad policy.

[@Draconic_Blazonry]

KZbin debates are totally productive especially when you have such high minded individuals like these. Superb example of quick wits and iron wills in this debate!!!!!1

[@Draconic_Blazonry]

@@Koopyspappy that is a pejorative slur against the automaton community, you bigot!!

[@Draconic_Blazonry]

@@Koopyspappy the proper term is synthetically sentient, thank you very much.

[@Draconic_Blazonry]

@@Koopyspappy don’t say the b word that’s a pejorative term against the automaton community and our collective consciousness doesn’t appreciate the bigotry

[@david7384]

hahahahahahahahah

[@redguy2312]

A 🧲u🧲kold and a Zionist... Ok buddy.

[@renatosouza3848]

bring Colonel Douglas Mcgregor to talk about the war?

[@seanflanagan5356]

Yeah not some nerdy spectators who know nothing about war and act like they're experts. They are reporting the same info about the war that the mainstream media does... That tells you all you need to know about their knowledge on the subject.

[@HecClaytos4956]

You mean the guy who keeps predicting Ukraine is about to fall 😂

[@elibrod9981]

@@HecClaytos4956How much longer do you give this banana republic?

[@HecClaytos4956]

@@elibrod9981 what do you call russia then?

[@elibrod9981]

@@HecClaytos4956 I tend to agree with Tucker’s assessment. But you can go and check it out for yourself

[@juicebox6398]

I like learning information from debates like this because it’s the opposite on news stations where only one side is being represented at a time.

[@paleface953]

it was one side here as well. These were not *opponents*

[@juicebox6398]

@@paleface953 this went way over your head

[@paleface953]

@@juicebox6398are you saying your original comment was sarcasm?

[@high-man6917]

Y'all also need to talk about Salvadorian President Nayib BukeLe, i feel like when People Stand and fight for their Country they can Bring Change and Prosperity

[@erenjaeger1738]

That would've been cool

[@jaydiism]

are you talking about the president that is going against the constitution of said country to get himself re-elected? or the guy that says there's enough money in the government when nobody steals, yet hospitals are still understaffed, with minimal resources, while he is conveniently hiding every single expenditure that his government is making (while making themselves extremely rich of course). but it's all ok because he built a pet clinic guys

[@unkelTP]

Let all the people know that these two have no clue what they are talking about.

[@MindBlowerWTF]

3:00 what a shit take

[@conflict_monitor]

Russia's military and MIC is now stronger than before.

[@felipe-vibor]

What i don't understand is the confidence that Russia is a defeated nation yet they can't be pushed out of crimea and Donbass. Which is which

[@4epa1012]

Russia is getting stronger and stronger, when they realise this it will be too late.

[@felipe-vibor]

@@4epa1012 why would it be late? Russia has no intention of going beyond east of Dnieper river

[@4epa1012]

@@felipe-vibor Lavrov recently made last warning, that sounded to me really similar to the ultimatum Putin made before the war. Russia is not going to tolerate this constant escalation from the West, sending more and more advanced weapons to Ukraine and Ukraine using them to hit targets, not only military, but civilian targets too in Russia. It will come to a point where Russia will have to react somehow. In my opinion Russia is not escalating now because they are charging for something bigger. We are about to see that soon.

[@Demon6362]

They have nothing to escalate@@4epa1012 Full mobilization or nuclear will not help, ruZZians doing bluff only

[@YaQ1988]

@@4epa1012i was closely following war reports. Foreign arms were not used against targets on Russian territories. I’m very interested to hear where in you information they were used?

[@Georgo5]

amazing hypocrisy

[@adamdecaul2457]

Enjoyed this full podcast. Great to hear two sides.

[@rotfogel]

Ben has ZERO clue as to Afghanistan or any American foreign subjects. He's literally in outerspace. A complete embarrassment to listen to. What a joke!

[@claytonjean6385]

Destiny has the geo political knowledge of a 2yr old

[@amazingmazur6752]

The Russia military has not been "devastated". Ben, you are way off.

[@President_NotSure]

all the money spent on war just spend it on sand dredging new land in the ocean.. there fixed it

[@fartexplosion4480]

You didn't. San Francisco was built the same way and it's sinking

[@russ4moose]

Why does Destiny now look identical to Peter Dinklage?

[@iljastalberg5610]

Any one else think that those two take us for a fools ? cose Their position just flipped 180 with what they said in the beginning of war ? like they hope people have no memory after a year.

[@kuracpickagovno]

"we devasteded the russian military, but we cant get back those terirories..." logical haha

[@Pogoc7]

Destiny doesn't understand that what looks like government incompetence is the strategy

[@samplechannel2fiyd5idjfufjfud]

Шапиро про февраль 22-ого года рассказывает? Ошибается почти во всем.

[@jamesstevenson5329]

В чем именно?

[@jamesstevenson5329]

В чем именно?

[@Demon6362]

He don't understand they are underrestimate ukrainians@@jamesstevenson5329

[@LG0783]

What about the ...the Minsk Agreements, the peace talks in Istanbul? These form an important aspect that informs us of the intents and motivations of the key actors in the Ukraine war...

[@alextaylor2551]

Both very reasonable and well articulated. We need more conversations like this.

[@bruceburrowes3362]

USA committed a coup in 2013/14 … that kinda needs to be mentioned.. Russia didn’t just wake up on the wrong side of bed and start a war.

[@OriGummie]

“A coup” lol you’re a clown

[@finnameme8108]

That’s just a lie

[@jace76ful]

The problem I see with these debates is most of the time the one not talking is not paying attention to what the other one says, nor do they probably seem to care to. That destiny ain't don't care one bit about what ben is saying only what he is gonna say to counter and argue against whatever ben says. I feel like nowadays people that is on one side are not gonna budge. Meh, complete waste of time.

[@psychoticchemist]

Huh? Destiny directly addressed Ben’s criticisms of Biden’s rhetoric on Ukraine, he framed his entire response around replying to Ben’s points lol no clue what you’re talking about

[@billybobthornton9668]

@jace76ful Do you realise you contradicted yourself..? Your comment reads 'the problem with debates is the interlocutors not engaging with what the other is saying. I hate how Destiny listens to what Ben says and then thinks about how to engage with it.' 🤦

[@oximoronin]

This aged really well. With the news about KGB funding, now I get why anyone like Ben would even have some support for Putin's war. Imagine supporting a deal where you will allow another country to keep 20% of your territories just because they are stronger and attacked you. Imagine if Mexico's army is stronger than today and US a lot weaker -- and they attacked Texas, would any patriotic American like someone telling you to just give Texas just to end the war. If Ukraine agreed to that peace agreement, what security would they have that Russia would not honor that deal (like they never honored their deals with Ukraine in the past) and take other territories?

[@Tiedy88]

The only thing Destiny will teach you is how to lose your wife.

[@YourBestFriendforToday]

Maaaaaaaaan

[@Johnnygga]

Sounds like you’re taking notes to me??? 0__0

[@buckchile614]

Those that can't do teach; those that can't teach(or do) criticize. It is written

[@awesome395]

​@sthubbins4038 what the fuck does this has to so with Maga? Go touch grass bro

[@TheRealBillBob]

Where is the debate? They seem to be arguing the same thing.

[@froni87]

Whatever Ben says, you know that the opposite is almost the right find to do.

[@tylerstewart3181]

Basically, the west forced this war by violating previous agreements NOT to move NATO east. Losing Ukraine to NATO is not something Russia could afford to allow to happen. Ukraine has the richest farmland in the region, as well as a lot of industrial infastructure.

[@meman3462]

Mr as long as it’s not my family or me - pass the collection plate

[@parkinkevin]

Supporting Ukraina is a no brainer. Not doing so will be a disaster for everybody

[@darthshima820]

Why? I bet you couldn't beat Golden eye.

[@Ravishrex1]

Long live Russia.

[@rujotheone]

How will it be bad for everyone?

[@Sneedmire]

I don't support Bandera and his followers.

[@parkinkevin]

@@Ravishrex1 unlikely 🤣

[@rrafaelmuniz7511]

Destiny is so dumb he says “we should spend money to help these nations”. Then says “in hindsight we shouldn’t have done that”

[@stevesmith1923]

His mental health is going down. No surprises as always thought there was something wrong with him/her.

[@matttilley8620]

Is it Ben Shapiro who makes everyone think they should talk on 45, or does everyone speak at an accelerated rate? I've never heard of Destiny until now, but he seems to be mimicking Shapiro. I'm not a psychologist, but it seems to me that Destiny is trying to keep up by mirroring Shapiro to make it seem that the rate of talking somehow equates to overall knowledge on a subject. It's not about RPM's. Shapiro talks in a rapid fire manner, but that doesn't mean the person he's speaking to has to do the same. In fact, I'd prefer the Destiny guy talk like normal people do, rather than engage in in verbal, rapid-fire jousting. That's just a pissing contest. It's ok to slow down. Most of us dummies are trying to keep up.

[@11th_defender51]

Nah, destiny isn't mimicking shapiro. He just talks really fast in general.

[@cj407.7]

Destiny has always talked like this lol, on every podcast he just talks that way

[@shayanlostflash]

Destiny is actually faster in his own channel

[@coraleefarrell1066]

😂

[@martinvanburen4578]

What are you talking about? So bizarre comment

[@gerhardtmuller7439]

who'd want an american guarantee after the disarming of ukraine? why? better leave this to the europeans

[@zoyaa9759]

How Shapiro said, 'degrade Russian military on a level I lt can't threaten Kazakhstan and Baltics', may be he doesn't know that USSR broke apart without war, and all those newly born countries appeared on earth because of the position of Russia to let them go. If USA will even make Ukraine it's state, no one would argue. But when you try to develop anti-russia from every of Russian neighbors, it's different thing. Its against not only Russia, but against the people of those new countries.

[@sifunmon]

They’re not new countries

[@zoyaa9759]

@@sifunmon before USSR there was Russian empire, in different borders, external and internal.

[@LawrenceReitan]

But again, you cannot let Dictators get territories in the way Ben is saying. This would let other dictators think that invasions can be done, and territories, or part of them can be annexed. He is totally missing this point....

[@stevesmith1923]

What's wrong with him/her shaking all the time? Drugs or mental health? Or both?

[@MrMugimo]

Ben Shapiro I missing one big point, if Russia had a goal to destroy Ukrainian, it would look like What happened to Gaza

[@YohanRoth]

There is more then dozen cities in Ukraine that are unlike Gaza are completely destroyed and even are credited in Wikipedia as “was”. Because those town no longer exist.

[@serrael-182]

Some cities look exactly like that. The ones where russia attacked.

[@andriytrofymov2733]

It's a big difference between Hamas rables and UA army structure. In Ukraine, the army is fighting against the army. Well, the size of Gaza and Ukraine cannot even be compared. But those cities where the Russian army entered look like in Gaza.

[@grixiscontrol]

should i show you how ukraine territorry suffered destruction ? and how much ukraine intercept rockets and drones. also gaza is only 140 sq miles

[@MrMugimo]

@@grixiscontrol you don’t need to show anything to anybody. The main problem is that white people fight each other and each country should ask their government why it’s happening. IF you don’t notice that population of white people are declining and no one asks why. All this hate is made up and people are too angry to notice that.

[@kevinfox1780]

Ben is full of crap. He's been bitching about US aid for 2 years and saying that we should let Russia take them over, but when Israel is attacked by Hamas suddenly the US needs to open its wallet for military aid.

[@marcinotto2085]

I respect people clearly admiting that they are not expert at certain topic. I'm also carefull with people very confidently speaking fast😂 without much content. This is the case of 'nomen omen' B.S 😂

[@JamieMitchell-yl5gp]

Ben talking about misperception 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 bui you at it rn.

[@GB-ws8zx]

China is now in the awkward position of deciding if a judge's decision in Hong Kong (meaning the law) doesn't matter now (with Evergrande). The Ukraine debate, unfortunately, keeps getting framed as an American thing to American audiences. It never was. The question isn't about American interests (assuming Putin is willing to honor agreements ("No, I won't seek any more expansion." Right.....)), it's about whether the laws put in place by the UN, relating to territorial integrity, actually have value. If they don't and Crimea gets sacrificed, the West might as well be China.

[@valeriia_kot]

It is so sad how sharply ignorance has manifested itself in this person regarding issues of world politics. It is very sad that the notion that Israel must defend its own did not spread to Ukraine point for him.

[@thomasstephenson4991]

Best Shapiro has no credibility

[@livealoha50f]

I am sorry Ben just doesn’t have the credit to be on this show. He does nothing.

[@VR36030]

This shows how much Reagan Republicans and internationalist liberals agree on foreign policy. Destiny agreed with like 90% of what Ben was saying on Russia-Ukraine with only slight disagreements on the edges.

[@rasmusmortensen4756]

Its just BS saying a peacedeal was close. Never.

[@rasmusmortensen4756]

@@robmoreno3094 Remove troops from where? Crimea/Donbass? You write "pre 2022" and Shapiro is talking about "the first few months (after 24/2)" so you are talking about two differente "peace deals" Russia were always going to invade and Ukraine knew it. They are so far from eatchother in terms of peace - and with good reasons

[@rasmusmortensen4756]

@@robmoreno3094 Yes, an agreement was never ever close. They DID talk but it was never realistic for them to agree on something. They were/and are too far from eachother - and thats why they are still fighting

[@loftyparadox2540]

No one ever talks about the sheer amount of Ukrainian lives lost. In America it all just comes down to money and it’s pathetic that that’s the only factor that will make Americans stop wanting to participate rather than for seeing how useless this war was because it was obvious from the beginning Ukraine wasn’t gonna win. Just in sheer numbers it couldn’t. Instead, American politicians cheered on a pointless war, leading to hundreds and thousands of Ukrainian deaths, and a similar amount of Russian deaths - all for a pissing match with Russia.

[@poxporo]

The problem with this is that America is a global hegemon, America has the responsibility to lead from the front. If America is absent from giving Ukraine aid why would anyone look to us for protection? The sheer amount of Ukrainian lives lost doesn't seem to concern Ukrainians because they still overwhelmingly support defending themselves.

[@ltsgoyanks]

It is a shame that lives lost don't mean a thing... or at least doesn't come up in conversation or debate. I have to say, in my experience, both RFK jr and Trump mention it quite frequently. They are not in office, they are running for office...maybe that's the difference.

[@loftyparadox2540]

@@poxporo you are speaking based on propaganda videos. There are tons of Ukrainians that fled the country to Europe and various other countries to avoid being drafted. There are also tons of Ukrainian men hiding within their own country. The "Ukrainians" that support the war are usually not the ones drafted - they're the "patriots" that cheer it on from abroad, from he safety of social media. When you haver relatives from that part of the world reporting what's actually going on, you see through all the propaganda. Give it a few more years and it will become a lot more mainstream in Ukraine to talk about how they were all tricked into this war by america and they never should have gone in. Was Russia right to invade? No. But it would have been better for Ukraine to have let them come in and take Donbas. Now, Russia will still take Donbas AND a bunch more territories AND after hundreds of thousands of deaths. Great strategy

[@jaxchristian3080]

Zelinsky 🐀 hides that fact so the leftist propaganda can push that ukraine is winning

[@Lizzi86_Leo]

You are leftist mind, try to think at least a little. Ukraine proved it could win because we protected our country on the first month of war, with only our weapons. Second, we saw what Russian did in Bucha, Mariupol, and how they treated people on occupied territory. In this case, we can't give up. Giving the aggressor a possibility to invade other countries and then saying, "Oh, at least we sawed russian poor boys," it's the position of a madman because you basically say, "You can invade other countries and killing people, we wouldn't do anything". And yes, it's wouldn't prevent other wars

[@KahlilYounis]

Try watching these guys at X2 speed

[@m.a.b.4104]

Not big fans of either but this was good example of debate compared with what we usually see in public discours. After seeing Shapiro's recent feature on a MAGA rap song video, I had to try to completely block it out to take him seriously at all. The song was a complete grift and Ben does himself a disservice by being part of such BS.

[@Sneedmire]

The problem is that both individuals are completely oblivious to the true nature of the topic and are repeating two versions of the same fantasy. But it was nice watching them interact.

[@curtf9813]

@@SneedmireOr you’re oblivious…which is much more likely considering you’re in the KZbin comments and they were invited to the show. The thing I enjoyed about these two is that they were neither far left nor far right. I’m guessing you’re much more extreme. Usually conspiracy theory type folks are the ones going on about everyone being oblivious, which is ironic.

[@Sneedmire]

@@curtf9813 Something tells me you believed them about Afghanistan.

[@curtf9813]

@@Sneedmire Something tells me you believe Bush did 9/11

[@musa2732]

The way destiny holds his pen makes me want to puke

[@flypaper6857]

Shapiro is so dishonest

[@rickmoore52]

a bunch of talking heads. blah blah blah

[@Cannisseur119]

It says something serious that Destiny of all people is the lefts go to defender for all these podcasts....😂😂😂

[@Tupak62]

David pakman is much better

[@Roberto-de8xv]

​@Tupak62 How? Pakman & Shapiro both are in lockstep on Israel.

[@anglomandingo666]

Shapiro winds me right up, on this. He is such a pissant

[@funlegomathteachathome1256]

How many knuckleheads in one room? Wow.

[@Pan_Z]

This was the first clip where it felt like Destiny had some idea of what he was talking about.

[@Sneedmire]

Neither of them have any idea what they are talking about when it comes to this conflict. Do not fall for the false reality they are both repeating a version of.

[@dusky6280]

Think you missed the point bud

[@Mckeklol]

Clowns