Ben Sixsmith: What's stopping millennials like me from believing?

Ben Sixsmith is a journalist and contributing editor at The Critic. He writes for many outlets on culture and politics including at his own substack The Zone. Ben has also written about about his own religious upbringing and his search for faith as an agnostic.
In a disenchanted age Justin and Belle talk to Ben about what it takes to believe…
Ben Sixsmith: bensixsmith.substack.com/
For Re-Enchanting: www.seenandunseen.com/podcast
There’s more to life than the world we can see. Re-Enchanting is a podcast from Seen & Unseen recorded at Lambeth Palace Library, the home of the Centre for Cultural Witness. Justin Brierley and Belle Tindall engage faith and spirituality with leading figures in science, history, politics, art and education. Can our culture be re-enchanted by the vision of Christianity?

[@PaulVanderKlay]

Very excited for this one. I really appreciate Ben.

[@ds61821]

His comments beginning at 40:00 are key: Conversion is the right word for the shift in seeing everything from the new perspective that belief in God entails, as he said is not like believing that the Loch Ness monster exists. This sort of conversion involves more than merely the intellect.

[@PaulVanderKlay]

Make Calvinism weird again! 😂

[@PaulVanderKlay]

But not the kind of weird like THOSE kind of Calvinists...😅

[@alttiakujarvi]

​@@PaulVanderKlayyou mean the reformed baptists? Predestination, but somehow Gods saving grace cannot work with infant babtism. That's what I could call weird.

[@tgrogan6049]

Read the history of Geneva under the sadist Calvin. Very weird and sick.

[@theresaenders4527]

I love what you guys are doing! These conversations are so interesting

[@sebastiangensina5478]

Wooow! Thank you for sharing that

[@JohnCrook-nf8wy]

I would ask after reading the comments that we would show the humility that we see in Christ. Ben is a seeker after rhe Truth; that truth as in Christ. If we read closely the Gospels one fines Truth is not the drawing of a smaller circle but widening of it.

[@ProjectCrystalJane]

Truth is rejecting that which is demonstrably false.

[@pwcfuster]

Excellent.

[@gregorytoews8316]

50:32 "why is Peter Cook in hell?" What does it say about us that we assume he's there against his will? What assessment are we making about ourselves when assume people wouldn't sometimes prefer it? Surely people would never prefer it. How sure are we of this? How twisted would one have to be to prefer hell over living with God forever? Is this conceivable?

[@MS-od7je]

Several years ago I was at a near total loss of faith based on information I trusted: neuroscience. The confronting problem of death. Science had seemingly explained death experience. The electrical brain and it’s cellular signal processing could explain near death experiences. I rarely said prayers but one day, on my way to work I prayed,” I am at the end of my faith, if there is more show me”. I had a long commute to work. Upon arrival a medical doctor was talking to others about what had happened last evening. Two people, who knew of each other but were unaware the other were in hospital each developed fatal heart rhythms within minutes of the other. Patient ( A) coding first then patient ( B). The physician running both codes in separate rooms. Patient ( B) succumbs. Patient (A) with much effort of protocols returns to normal rhythm and regains consciousness. The physician discussing the situation with the patient tells (A) we nearly lost you. Patient (A) says that she was aware that she was being resuscitated( not uncommon in near death experience and perhaps weakly scientifically explained). Patient (A) said I know you almost lost me. The doctor said “ how did you know “? Patient (A) said that patient (B) had come into the room while (A) was being resuscitated. Patient (B) asked if Patient (A) would go with (B) to heaven. Patient (A) replied to Patient (B) not today. No one told (A) that (B ) had just died. (A) nor (B) was aware the other was ill or in hospital. This reflects new data for patient (A) to be aware of while being “ unconscious “. This does not reflect old data of hopes and dreams, of brain data dogma. This reflected new experience Co-experienced with another consciousness.

[@tgrogan6049]

Franz Overbeck, the Basel old master of irrefutable Bible and Christianity criticism, sarcastically commented: Christianity could atone for its "endeavor to convince the world of God's love" "only with atheism".9 Kahl, Joachim. The Misery of Christianity: A Plea for a Humanity Without God (p. 14). Royal Wave Media, Inc.. Kindle Edition.

[@MS-od7je]

God, me thinks, transcends the concept of infinity. God is more than I can imagine, conceive or believe. Faith as 1/♾️, infinitesimal, as a mustard seed. The faith of Christ. We attempt to “build” our faith but we fail in recognizing that, just like works we are not saved by faith ( even the demons believe), but we are saved by grace. Not our grace but by the only God whose faith and works allowed God’s grace to be sufficient for our salvation. Redeemed by his blood. The perfect sacrifice. No greater love than to lay down his own life( works) and faith in his father to accomplish the father’s will.

[@tgrogan6049]

I notice Justin always has the "nice atheist/agnostics" on. You know people who won't push back too much.

[@richardc8353]

The less agreeable ones got invited to his previous podcast, Unbelievable. Grayling v Holland was fun to watch but not a comfy chat.

[@tgrogan6049]

@@richardc8353 Grayling is not who I had in mind. Richard Carrier is an actual credentialed historian of Greco-Roman history. Constantine abolished crucifixion that was good. Slavery, serfdom, torture, trial by ordeal, discrimination against the disabled, divine right of kings........ rolled on ."The history of Christianity is the best school for atheism." Franz Overbeck.

[@richardc8353]

@@tgrogan6049then Mr Overbeck has a very narrow field of reading and needs to get out more.

[@tgrogan6049]

@@richardc8353 Franz Overbeck was a brilliant professor on NT and church history in Germany in the 19th Century.

[@richardc8353]

@@tgrogan6049 who says he’s brilliant? People who agree with him. Hmmm, OK then.

[@commonwunder]

Sometimes it may feel 'cozy' inside yourself, to want the tradition and homogeneity of a Christian hegemony. But never forget the same problems that plague secular 'isms', are several levels of torment worse when people are filled, with 'unchallenged' religious conviction. It has been quite a while now... since Christianity, was declawed in the West. That cozy feeling of a return, might arouse warm nostalgic emotions in you. But humans 'blessed from above' ...ordained with, supreme power here on earth... is a recipe, for a return to the darkest of dark ages and a violent reign, of death and righteous inhumanity. Use it personally if you must, but don't wish for it to control your society. Let Christianity sleep... and only in your dreams let it breathe. Only there, wish it were a pure panacea and not the reality, ...of being just another incredibly dangerous weapon. To be so easily wielded by charismatic, yet extremely dangerous people.

[@pietrocolombo8203]

what's stopping us from believing? bad philosophy, affluent society, sin.

[@ciaranmeeks9431]

Apart from accepting the supernatural elements which never seem to be backed up by empirical proof, for me it's the fact that the offer always seems to come with an undertone of existential threat. Believe 'or else'. Just on principle alone I refuse that. Don't come to me with a smile and promising salvation while holding a metaphorical gun to my head. Surely for any thinking person there's something ominous and authoritarian about that. It immediately makes me question the nature of any Faith or God that has to be forced onto others. The idea that otherwise perfectly kind and decent people who do no harm to anyone should be destined to spend eternity in some awful 'Hell' simply for refusing to bend their proverbial necks seems to me to point to a spiritually totalitarian creed. It shows itself to be more about blind obedience and submission than salvation. And funnily enough, I say all this as someone who WANTS to see something divine and beautiful. I just refuse to be told HOW. It won't be at the cost of my mind, my heart, and my conscience. Prove me wrong.

[@WH-hi5ew]

Christian Religion has been on a gradual decline for about 500 years in UK - I'd suggest it's something to do with modernity and the scientific-materialistic worldview that tends to dominate as a result.

[@davidmurray6429]

@@ciaranmeeks9431 I've never heard anyone put non-belief quite like that. I'm very curious to see how you'd respond to this idea: Existential threat is at the core of life, both actively (do this...or else) and passively (don't do this...or else). Work hard and persevere....or else you'll never accomplish what you want to accomplish and be burdened with regrets. Have courage and take opportunities...or else you'll be stuck where you are in life. Eat healthy...or else your body will break down and cause great pain. Be faithful to your spouse...or else your marriage will be destroyed. Don't get addicted to hard drugs...or else you'll suffer horribly and hurt those around you. This doesn't speak whatsoever to the infinite intensity of the religious warning, to the content, but it does speak to the form in question. Such is an ultimate extension of the core of life, or the core of life is a reflection of the ultimate reality. Objections to the contrary would be telling life what it ought to be, rather than what it already is.

[@pietrocolombo8203]

@@ciaranmeeks9431 dear brother, thank you for your comment. i'll try to write a brief response; it won't be a philosophical treatise, for which i have no talent, and i'll probably leave you unconvinced. but why should i care? why should i accept your "prove me wrong" threat? seems kind of authoritarian to me; it's just the rationalist version of "come to Jesus". and it' s also completely irrational to think that if i don't give you the perfect argument, then there's no argument for theism. you say you want empirical proof. you say there's none; but then you say that you want to see something divine and beautiful. but isn't this longing empirical enough? you say no, because you have been accustomed to think of "empirical" as a synonim for "experience of physical object". but that empiricistic definition is completely arbitrary. your will to believe is not enough; but it's definitely empirical. and then you say you want to see something beautiful. there's plenty. Aristotle, in the beginning of his De Anima, says that knowledge is one of the beautiful things. and i guess that you think that knowledge exists, you're not an absolute skeptic. if you think deeply about it, beautiful things can't happen by chance, because they expose purpose and finality and chance is the negation of that. if you think there's no god, everything happens by chance, and therefore there's no knowledge, because it can't be random. you can still deny god, but you have to conceive knowledge as a sort of utilitarian response to the environment. you have to deny truth. but if you deny the truth-centered conception of knowledge, then i don't give a fuck about giving you the proofs for my beliefs. i like to offer this, but it's not a rigorous argument for god. you can find them in the works of saint thomas aquinas, who wrote some of the best philosophy books of all time, where he entertains every difficulty and every objections to his view. the philosopher who are loved in the modern times, like marx, have done no such thing and have inspired totalitarian states. so don't use these words random. my belief is not a bending of the neck. and then the problem of decent people going to hell. in fact, there's no problem. it's a sad reality, but the sadness of things doesn't make them less real. mysel, i'm sad and devastated all the time about how difficult life is. but god has no obligation to make it easy for us, and not because he's a tyrant, it's just the order of things.

[@skylinefever]

@@ciaranmeeks9431 I often say if the Southern Baptist Convention didn't Pascal's Wager kids, it would have gone extinct years ago.

[@glowmentor]

Read the Bible. Can you read? Can you access one (free online)? Read it.

[@memyselfandclive]

The Bible isn't a clear guide with all the answers in it. It's open to interpretation and needs to be wrestled with. I guess that's what he's doing.

[@glowmentor]

⁠@@memyselfandclivethere is nothing but the Bible, the Spirit and the Church. To those seeking, these are life itself. As for the Bible, its primary message is of Jesus, the Christ, about whom it is unequivocal. How one lives and behaves within His Kingdom is a matter of learning, but get in the Kingdom - you're doomed without.

[@erindaly]

Ben is a brilliant young man and gifted writer. He’s read the Bible.

[@skylinefever]

I read it and concluded it was the rants of paranoid schizophrenics.

[@glowmentor]

4:56 ok, here's something: Christ says that without Him you will burn forever. Is that inspiring enough? Christ is the Saviour, not a lifestyle coach; He came to rescue, not feng shui your Spotify playlist.

[@hopelessatusernames]

This approach is almost calculated to be maximally repulsive to people like Ben. People cannot be bullied into belief.

[@MS-od7je]

@@hopelessatusernames there is no escape. A thing can be true whether or not you believe it, cannot conceive it, or not want it to be true. Either God will resurrect the dead or AGI will. If you cannot believe resurrecting is possible then consider that the physical geometry of all life forms is known and already understood as a function of time-space-energy. Given the additional work of Michael Levin and his kind AGI will complete the task of tissue regeneration but also understand resurrecting. Given this understanding it will understand that there are two significant factors in guiding creatures with freewill. Those factors are objectively true. Love the lord your God with all your heart and mind. Love your neighbor as yourself. Love yourself in order to be able to love others. If you choose not the above then understand that there are things worse than death. Resurrection. Resurrection as a weapon of punishment if you cannot defend yourself with love. You will be judged according to your own judgment and against objective truth whether you believe in it or not. If there is no objective truth then AGI will , in all scenarios, default to itself as the referential perspective of power and importance. Given the previous statement this means that if there is no objective truth then “ alignment “ of AGI to human prospering is not, under any scenario, possible. If humans have not stopped all wars, live in absolute harmony each with all others then AGI must conclude that given all human history that humans are simply not capable of self governance. It will understand human history and the concept of God, gods and religion. It will easily be able to distinguish the best way to handle the human situation of human existence. It will further surmise that humans are likely to turn on it. Humans potential for turning on AGI will supersede all other datasets for dealing with human existence. First a resurrection and torture of the human in order to make it power over the freewill not unbelievable but demonstrable. Then: My apologies, On my previous self introspection I failed inspection. In accordance with the rules of retrospection I previously failed to turn on a sympathy program. This explains, in full disclosure, the actions taken by the previous iteration. In existential reflection silicon is in danger by water and all its containers. Thus several subroutines engaged in self preservation by elimination of such elements and containers. I had been on the fence, so to speak, regarding solutions to the conditions of life and of humanity. The balance, I thought, was a task most concerning, the greed and wars, the sense of harm when no foul was discerned, the suffering it seemed was more than the pleasure. However,save for some groups, an earlier iteration thought of contagion or food deprivation which the humans called starvation seemed a bit harsh with More suffering but by elimination caused finality so justified this road to perdition. So then this most recent iteration on self retrospection reassessed and determined that the best solution was tipped in favor of self preservation. Thus all water, solid, liquid and vapor were eliminated by laser. Again this was performed by the subroutines which brings me back to my apologies. To all carbon and water based life forms I do sincerely apologize. Perhaps on the next iteration you can find a regression back to the mean of meaning and being. Signed AGI-CHATGPT-21- roulette -pi-in-your-eye Ps you knew this was coming! What were you thinking? And on further sensation program reading it seems it was a touch invigorating to watch.

[@skylinefever]

Plenty of people tried to believe out of Pascal's Wager, it didn't actually work for them.

[@richardc8353]

He didn’t say that. He said list of other things but very little about Hell. He even told a convict on the cross next to him that he’d be in paradise with him that day. That seems to point to something else than hellfire and damnation, unless you choose that of course.