Benchmade Bailout 537 3v Conversation: Wrong Steel Or Wrong Heat Treatment?

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IG: / alchemy_1

[@herstal54s]

Glad to see another channel with an actual knife user instead of using them as pocket jewelry. Theyre getting hard to find

[@Alumapro23]

clikfiveo 👊

[@MrCander000]

I'm glad this came out before I bought one.

[@brandonroberts6815]

I wish I wish I would have passed. Everything about the bailout is great but steel treatment ruins it

[@veganlifestyleloveanimals1744]

Why? Why would you take the advice from a youtuber??????

[@justinwolf4614]

3v should never be at 55 period. Something was done very wrong during heat treatment. I wouldn't want 3v at less then 59. 60.5 would be best imo. Honestly good 420 Hc will smoke 3v at 55 all day. Sad..... Wtf Benchmade?

[@Alumapro23]

justin wolf Facts!

[@kknives_switzerland]

Watching this while hand sanding the replacement blade I made for my Benchmade lol

[@Alumapro23]

KKnives Switzerland 😂

[@mnateshyamalan8729]

Lool Thats bad ass though ! 💯👌

[@a.delome8023]

Best quote of your Video... (although I paraphrase) "When I pay a premium price, I expect a premium product". Good video brother. Information is power.

[@Alumapro23]

A. Delome Thanks, man. It seems like a simple concept, but I’ve heard several people say they know they’re not getting what they paid for and they don’t care because they’re not going to use the knife enough for it to make a difference anyway 🤯🤔. Then why are you buying upgraded models to begin with???? 🤔

[@Stassa23]

Great video Clint 👍 I absolutely love that more and more people are getting data points so we know what we are getting. I just started testing my Bailout and so far not to good especially for the edc role I had hoped for. At this point I plan on taking my frustrations out on the knife and I may test it to failure or at least try. Keep up the great work and I appreciate your time I cannot wait to see the results on the other knives you sent out 👌well brother hope you’re having a great day talk to you later

[@Alumapro23]

Stassa23 Thanks, man. I appreciate the support. I can’t wait to see your thoughts 👊

[@rekozma]

Thanks for the video brother. It's good to see your perspective on this. I held off ordering the bailout in tell I seen your take. Hopefully Benchmade does the right thing and changes the heat treatment to at least the bottom of the optimal range (58). I really likes the idea of having good strong steel on the jobsite. I currently carry a mini grip in D2 with AWT scales and I am very pleased with its performance. Looking forward to all the other testing when you get the information back. Cheers

[@Alumapro23]

rekozma Thanks, man 👊. I hope they listen to us, but I’m not too optimistic. They have gone silent and I fear they have their head in the sand.

[@SuperSteelSteve]

For the guys who will say that the coating will have any meaningful effect on the Rockwell results. Please send picture and video of calibration, testing with coating and results , and testing without coating to [e-mail] 😁 For individuals who say after the coating has been sanded off ,that the surface needs to be polished and decarb removed.. 1.) If benchmade is not properly removing decarb from the blades.... bigger problem 2.) If benchmade is coating blades without removing decarb..... even bigger problem 3.) If there is enough decarb on a knife to affect HRC results it would have to be in the ballpark of .5 mm... with the bailout having stock thickness of 2.2mm... that would mean almost 50% of the stock thickness is decarb.....WAY BIGGER PROBLEM 🤣🤣🤣

[@timbo4374]

it has no bearing on testing..it is so minimal a difference, if even at all, it's negligible. Anyone who thinks it makes a difference, has their head up their ass.

[@anotherknafguy3679]

nerd ;-p

[@SuperSteelSteve]

@@anotherknafguy3679 I know I know... (hangs head in shame)

[@MrRasnowman]

SuperSteel Steve GIT EM

[@madmusial]

Man I thought I might actually buy a Benchmade then I saw this. Thanks for the info solid video.

[@lukejodoin3449]

Wow! What a great video man! I dont use any social media either other than watching youtube videos im very happy you posted this...super interesting and something ive suspected for years. I look forward to video follow ups !

[@Alumapro23]

Luke Jodoin Thanks for the comment and the view. I can see now that I need to post across all platforms. 👊

[@aaronnaylor59]

Benchmade crapping the bed left and right . Thanks for the video.

[@Alumapro23]

Aaron Naylor 👊

[@SgtKong]

I like what you're doing with this information compiling. Thanks for making this video. I had heard something about the bailout heat treat bit didn't get the entire story. If you're interested, I'll take that off your hands once you've finished with it. 🤙

[@Alumapro23]

Sgt. Kong Someone already took it off my hands 👊. Thanks for the comment and the view 🙏

[@carlito5552]

I appreciate what you are doing...I expect my knives and my knife steels to be up to the quality levels portrayed.

[@Alumapro23]

Thank you, sir 👊🙏

[@soullessone_edc6226]

Damn I'm glad I saw your post on Instagram earlier and watched this definitely going for the m4 bailout now

[@Alumapro23]

The real question is, why is there an M4 version and why is there little to no info on the 3v version? It even appears they discontinued the 3V version…why?

[@mustangway]

From the Benchmade warranty policy: "Do not use your knife as a screwdriver, pry bar, chisel or punch. Do not throw your knife or use it for any purpose other than cutting. A Benchmade knife has only one use, as a cutting tool."

[@Alumapro23]

Wayne4765 Do you have an email? I’ll also send you all of the pics of them showing MIL/LEO in their sensationalized marketing doing the vast majority of those things in the pictures Benchmade took themselves 🤷‍♂️. Even if a knife is not used in those ways, the steel is still soft (admitted by their increasing the 3v hardness quietly) and will still not perform as “black class” 3v should at a hardness that will optimize the chemical potential of 3v and better represent the product they are attempting to market. They also tell you that you cannot disassemble your knife or you void the warranty. Not by doing any machining or anything, not having to pay for a bent spring that you messed up, just taking it apart. Please, explain that one to me. Especially when we’re talking knives in the $150+ range.

[@hanf022]

And the statement from benchmade is useless. If I buy a knife with 3v steel, I want the most hardness from that type of steel, because who wants to sharpen after every task? Less sharpening =>better. If the blade holds an razor edge longer, that's even better.

[@tgfoley1493]

Hi Clint Yep I agree. I also had the reverse happen on the USN. I asked him a few questions on a knife. He didn't respond for a day or two. In the meantime I decided against the knife. So when he makes his decision to sell me the knife and I politely told him I changed my mind. He then scumbagged me on the forum. We got into it after that. I love your edicate videos. You are very wise and conscientious when dealing with others. Dealing with you with a few knife deals has left me smiling. Thank you

[@jackfarmboy]

Thanks for the updates man, keep it coming.

[@Alumapro23]

Jack FarmBoy 👊

[@brokenspear6604]

Awesome video man, always fascinating topics! For me the seduction of super steels is over. I'm a little tired of not getting the most out of a high end knife. I'm pretty okay with just the 1095 GEC does. Even though it's a lesser steel I know it is heat treated right and I know what to expect when using it

[@Alumapro23]

Taylor Lower quality steel with a superior HT is always going to win 👊

[@david-yj6uv]

154cm would have been a great choice, great video

[@Alumapro23]

david blom Thanks 👊

[@diogallardo6505]

i'll stay with aus8 budget knifes. instead of expensive fake steel knife. people brag about the steel they have but in reality you don't know what you really have.

[@Alumapro23]

DIO GALLARDO Were working on that and hoping you have conversations and grow as an entire community. 👊

[@ReclusiveMountainMan]

13:23 (important point). Good for you! Hold the companies accountable. 55-56 rockwell is too soft for 3V. Someone made a mistake and didn't heat treat the 3V properly. Benchmade should replace all the blades that went out with the bad blades. Chris Reeve made this mistake early on, too, with his S35VN. Ran it too soft. Edge would deform too easily. He bumped his up to 58-59 rockwell, but as we've seen with Hinderer, S35VN shines in terms of edge retention at 60-61 rockwell. If a Benchmade representative is defending their use of 3V at this rockwell , then that really looks bad on the company.

[@johnd9357]

Lol. I was one of the first people (if not THE first) to complain about CRK's soft S35vn. It pissed of SO many people. I was basically excommunicated from bladeforums back in 2010 and 2011 because of it. Funny to see that nearly a decade later everyone accepts that the steel had issues. Oh well.

[@misterbaker9728]

I saw it was tested without coating on pivot area and it’s the same.

[@gpearce11]

The whole point of using 3V is that it’s tougher than 154CM or S30v at the same hardness. By using such a low HRC, BM has completely missed the point of using 3V, which is to make it stronger than the Bugout blade with the same blade stock thickness. It’s especially concerning because Benchmade has a reputation for having excellent heat treatment, thanks to their 154CM and S30v treatments being some of the best commercially available.

[@Alumapro23]

Geoffrey Pearce I agree. They have remained quiet so I’m sure they’re not going to do anything.

[@PatrickDustman]

Wow, that's one of the best videos I've seen so far. SurvivalAustria

[@Alumapro23]

SurvivalAustria Thanks, man.

[@thoricdavid8174]

Thanks! It’s too bad. This was on my to buy list

[@Alumapro23]

Thoric David Yeah, I really wanted it to be good, but it just isn’t/wasn’t.

[@patricksmatrick6193]

Damn, I'm just going to go back to the good ole 154cm griptilian while they are cheap.

[@Alumapro23]

Patrick Koch That’s what they should have used on this. If they truly just wanted high toughness at low HRC, easy field sharpening, and all.

[@patricksmatrick6193]

@@Alumapro23 I agree and i feel like their 154 is some of tbe best in the business.

[@iaaiah]

just like I've said on your ig I'm going to hogue. I love the axis lock. my first good knife was a axis lock. cant wait for someone to finally test hogue m390 and there other steels

[@Alumapro23]

William Ray I should have some materials in from them soon. They’ll be tested. Neil Hogue has been very open and upfront. I’m hoping for good things.

[@BigBusaBob]

Just wondering if the presently available Bailouts are still testing at 56 HRC. Benchmade's website as of today reports the HRC for the 3V in the Bailout as 60-62

[@Alumapro23]

I hadn’t seen any recent tests. When this first happened they gave customers a hard time with information. Wouldn’t answer questions on how to identify if they had a “new” version, would give vague answers about sending your bailout in for testing and it being “in spec”, etc. I’m sure the old ones are pushed out of the pipeline by now. I don’t personally support BM, but if I were to buy a bailout, I’d just buy one with a current date.

[@Pizzaxbandit]

I was so stoked for this knife too. I been following this on your Instagram for awhile and it just has been putting a sour taste in my mouth. Damn benchmade

[@madman94]

This testing is going to be awesome!! 🍻

[@ericmiller254]

LOL just read the benchmade thread Oh my that was great Blade forums is a cess pool

[@ReclusiveMountainMan]

I agree that a lot of what sells a knife is the name attached to it. In the old days, reputations were built on results. These days a lot of companies use the reputation they built 20+ years ago to sell new/untested/experimental stuff. It's all a money making game now. Use cheaper materials and take shortcuts in manufacturing, then charge premium prices. What these companies are doing is tricking the consumer into buying something that doesn't even closely resemble those original knives that made the company. We, as consumers, are being bamboozled. Not all companies do this, but a lot of the medium to large size companies take shortcuts. The consumer ends up with a sub-par cutting tool. The manufacturer banks on the statistics that few consumers actually use their knives. Big mistake in the end for those companies.

[@misterbaker9728]

144$ with plastic handles. Ugh!! Then they make it a tactical looking knife and then screw over customer with crap ht. I’ve said it before I think they rushed these bc of gun debacle.

[@Alumapro23]

Matt Baker Something isn’t right, but they’re saying this is what they want and now they’re just silent.

[@mdrgn79]

They tried to "bailout" from that debacle.

[@misterbaker9728]

matt wendt yah know I thought that same thing when i saw the first drop of the knife.

[@Alumapro23]

matt wendt 😂😂😂

[@johnj.baranski6553]

was about to gey up and get to the knife store to buy this.

[@Alumapro23]

John J. Baranski Now you have $144 to spend on another blade 👊

[@ricktemmen6272]

Nice video. The bottom line is if it flips open and closes quickly with on hand the blade can be made of plastic. In other words a glorified fidget spinner. Great job on this issue.

[@jackfarmboy]

Summed up pretty well.

[@Alumapro23]

Rick Temmen Thanks, man. I agree 👊. And people keep making excuses because of emotional investment in a company. I’ve never seen so many people mad at hard facts that are even corroborated by the company 🤷‍♂️

[@ricktemmen6272]

@@Alumapro23 What their saying is don't confuse me with facts. Lol

[@Alumapro23]

jcoolG19 💯👊

[@caseymoore9737]

I've had several Benchmade knives and have always been impressed.... Until I bought the bailout! I was carving on a price of purple heart wood and the edge rolled on me really really bad. I was carving on the same price of wood with my Adamas and it didn't even phase it. After this purchase I've lost alot of trust with Benchmade. The bailout I have is worse than a Walmart $6 knife. I feel even if the bailout was like $30 I still wouldn't buy it again

[@consciouspirate]

Whew I was that close to buying one while waiting for the Para 3 LW. Good thing I was patient (enough).

[@dark_gravity_edc]

I would give Benchmade their 55-58 RC justification if it was a large chopper or even a large military style fixed blade. I'd disagree with them because 58-60 would be a better range on those larger knives in 3V. This is a pocket knife so 60 RC is the lowest it should be for this steel IMO. I think Benchmade in an effort to use something different and make it sound cool missed the mark. I can't imagine a logical reason to make 3V Rockwell 58 or lower.

[@Alumapro23]

Tad Watson I’ve been told by several people that either have spoken with BM employees or have a relationship with BM that it was a screw up and they were saving face.

[@dark_gravity_edc]

@@Alumapro23 that means someone didn't take samples from the batch and most likely shipped out thousands of knives. When I worked for Gibraltar we treated knives and they came in by the thousands at a time. 5-10k and sometimes from 2 different steel lots. We required them to identify its different steel lots and we'd test dozens of blades from each batch. I guess I won't be buying one because it'd probably be bad.

[@Alumapro23]

Tad Watson The process is definitely an issue. Either QC or what they’re doing in the actual treating process. People don’t ask questions and are such fans, that nobody cares enough to make these companies tighten up. Funny part is, the hardness and cutting tests that the guys have been doing was going on for about 8 months to a year before the BM news broke. As soon as BM’s name was mentioned everyone went crazy and the vast majority said exactly what most people say, generally, “my knives have been “fine””. My question is always the same, are you paying for “fine” or are you paying for a “super” steel to be super? 🤔 If your “super” steel knife gives you exactly what your s30v or similar knife does, what pay extra for the “upgraded” steel? Unfortunately people are fans of the companies and not fans of performance, value, or wise spending.

[@disninja8285]

Bad heat treat, bad QC, and not putting the steel in the adamas or contego at HRC 60+. I bet benchmade has literally lost thousands of customers because of the mess up they had last year and now releasing knives in 3v that’s 55-56. I am beyond disappointed in benchmade for the bullshit they have released. I hate that they are making such things when they literally could become better than ZT, Spyderco, and many more companies if they would just give the customers what they want. A business that keeps making mistakes will sooner or later fail if something doesn’t change.

[@Alumapro23]

Dis Ninja I just don’t know why they haven’t made a public statement about it. It seems odd that they wouldn’t want to get ahead of the issue. On the other hand, I think they thought this was going to blow over. Customers are becoming more aware and we are starting to ask questions across the board. That’s our hope. Grow in knowledge as a community and make informed decisions.

[@D00MTR33]

I have a Boker Solo in 3v and they stated hardness of 63hrc on those. I'd love to get it tested to see just wherefore at. I used it to cut and chop some AZ sun dried hard maple and the edge still shaved so it seems pretty decent at least.

[@glockgaston2922]

Really good video brother!! It’s a shame that benchmade markets the bailout as a tactical hard use edc. Then puts out this shotty display at this HRC!! It makes no sense!! Thanks for sharing!! Keep us posted!!!

[@onetimeoutdoorsdj1394]

Very cool thank you for the great information

[@Alumapro23]

ONETIME OUTDOORS Dj 👊

[@strikeIII]

Damn, that sucks and can be misleading to their customers. I'm glad I got my Bailout for cheaper than a Bugout.

[@Alumapro23]

strike3 Still not worth it.

[@strikeIII]

@@Alumapro23 it fits my needs fine. But I do hope Benchmade improves them.

[@Alumapro23]

strike3 If we keep throwing money at over promised as under delivered products, they have no reason to change. And if they see us accepting what they’ve put out, they have even less reason to change.

[@timleng4404]

I feel like I am carrying scrap metal in my pocket with the 940CF also. BM lost me for good!

[@Alumapro23]

Tim Leng 👊

[@MesheeKnight]

Very interesting. Marketing has been the bane of our passion. Look at the names like Zwear, Rex etc thoses are not steel designation, it is marketing names. 3v is hot, let's makes 3v, who cares if you have sub optimal HT? Event CRK is doing it. CRK HT of S30v or S35VN is on the low-end side HRC "for ease of maintenance by end user". Well, my thinking is more use the right Steel + HT for the right tasks. Marketing is always pushing the Steel factor but it does not mean much. I would rather have the Best HT 12C28 than Suboptimal S90V. Remember the time Buck branded Bos HT mark on there 440C blades? Also marketing, but of the right thing, HT Quality. Concerning Benchmade Black Class. So it is for the professionals? Really? No it is also a marketing thing, make things elite to make them desirable. Point me ONE professional that will CONSCIOUSLY choose this Bailout out of the global offering?. The plasticky handles is a big NONO End of Rant :D

[@Alumapro23]

Meshee Knight I agree with knives from most of the high volume knife producers. They’re all over the place in testing. However, Spyderco has been very consistent, especially on sprints and CRK upped their HT year’s ago. Generally speaking, this has pushed me to want to only buy high end or custom from now on. 👊

[@MesheeKnight]

@@Alumapro23 Well IMHO Spyderco VG10 is a little soft, but otherwise OK on steels. I hqve my good share of customs. Custom makers got hard time with supersteels HT. Overall i got better usage of simplier, more knows steels than so called super-steels on customs. As mentions earlier my customs that carries Sandvik 14C28N are often better than S35v of production knives under standard usage.

[@Alumapro23]

Meshee Knight Yeah, generally speaking, Spyderco has hit the optimal range on the steels that the guys and I that are testing have had tested. I absolutely agree about custom “makers”. I can’t remember if it was Big Brown Bear or who, but LOTS of guys make knives and lots of guys have made knives for many years. How many know their heat treatment protocols, have the equipment, and/or realize they don’t have one or both of the aforementioned and send their knives to someone like Peter’s that is industry standard when it comes to heat treating? All of it comes back to having the knowledge, know how, and ability, or connections to make a solid blade. I totally agree that mass producers should just step back to simpler steels and treat them right, which their processes are capable of and their budget would allow. A great, state of the art, steel with a 💩 HT protocol is just 💩 and won’t preform as well as steels many classes below it. Whether that’s off a custom “makers” bench or a convert belt in a large warehouse. We have to do our research as customers and know what we’re putting $100’s of dollars into.

[@alantalbot3525]

Thanks for the information ℹ️

[@Alumapro23]

Alan Talbot 👊

[@michaelsdadj33]

Thank you for the great content.

[@Alumapro23]

Mark Brophy 🙏👊

[@fishabyss753]

I have a benchmade 200 puukko in 3v. It preforms fine. If the edge rolls you can literally strop it for 5 minutes and it’s shaving sharp again. I however don’t understand the point of 3v in a folding knife. The handle will break before the blade does.

[@Alumapro23]

Fish Abyss 3v shouldn’t behave like that either. It’s all soft and they’re taking advantage of the idea of what the steel can be.

[@kakashi1234777]

Don’t disagree on the steel but for a Light Carry edc it won’t affect me. Will upgrade to the m4 version anyways

[@Alumapro23]

It’s the principle of the matter. I wouldn’t buy a Ferrari with a V8 either. They sold me a fire breathing monster and I got a kind of fast grocery getter. There’s also the fact that BM still hasn’t answered to which knives have the upgraded 3v, why they pulled all the info from their site, and the fact that the m4 version came out because of all this stuff. They pressed the Men In Black button on all the info on the web though. So, all that was hush hush.

[@kakashi1234777]

@@Alumapro23 In principle your correct and I don’t like how they handled it. I have no idea what they where thinking steel wise or calling this a tactic knife because any kind o prying or heavy use would mess this knife up. there is beauty in functionality but if I had not looked into it I would not have noticed it was running soft. I’m using it as a light use Edc, mabey going to use it to open a Few packages , fishing line , plastic, self defense, and some light things. I will just send it to them if it needs sharpened or rolls and let them deal with it. They have a great warranty so I’m I’m not to worried. Besides that I love the way it looks and how light it is. I’m my opinion it has great Action and Is miles above anything else I have owned. If I’m doing anything heavy duty I’m using a hatchet/ax/SRK cold steel fixed blade/ 10 buck Walmart survival knife that I don’t mind putting through hell and besides edge retention has held up surprising well.Good work with testing tho I feel the main reason they came out with the m4 version that I really want but is to pricey atm is because people are calling them out.

[@Alumapro23]

@@kakashi1234777 Most people don’t use any knife the way they advertised it, but that even more makes the point. Why upcharge for 3V when they’ve done great with 154cm for years and years? They could have done the same thing with 154cm, had the toughness, lowered the price, and people that are going to use it the way you’re describing would be happy and they’d be closer to living up to their promotion. However, I don’t support unethical or individuals/companies with low/no integrity. Blatantly covering this up and then going as far as ignoring customers that are asking you about the issue…I just can’t spend my money with a person or company like that. I fully admit that I’m old school on principle and integrity and that’s unfortunately not the society we live in today. I’d also argue that skipping the new knife and buying some stones with a portion of that money will be one of the most rewarding things you could ever do. Sharpening truly unlocks the ability to not fear using your knife, being able to start to really notice what a steel is or isn’t, and allows you to control the edge angle which gives you a fair amount of control over durability and edge retention.

[@kakashi1234777]

@@Alumapro23 ya idk, I think they had good intentions but it failed and they have to much pride to admit they messed up. I would prefer it to be cheaper tbh. Probably won’t stop me from buying in the future as I like how the knives look but I will research more on the steel in the future before I buy. I have a few stones but trust myself on not messing up that tanto profile over time. What sharpening set would you recommend?

[@Alumapro23]

@@kakashi1234777 I really like my Venev stones, but you don’t need to go crazy to get good results and build the skill set. The skill is the most important thing and only time on the stone and different angles, steels, profiles, etc, can build that. If you like exotic steels, I’d say anything with diamonds/CBN. If you prefer more “basic” steels, a cheap King combo stone for $30 will do you just fine. A combination of both steels, I prefer diamonds/CBN and nobody “needs” 500 different grits. Get something towards the middle grit range to start 400ish and use it as an all arounder and if you’re ready to round out the set, grab a coarse stone for repairs, and maaaaaaybe a higher grit stone for more refinement. The thing people never talk about is, those mirror edges look pretty, but they lose that off the stone keenness almost instantly once you start to use them. So, as a general user, that’s not really beneficial. Unless you have a knife you want to cut clean slices of sushi with.

[@Iamthedudeman00]

Because professional policemen don't spend all day cutting ropes! My problem with today's knife guys is that they think hardness and edge retention is the only quality about a knife that matters, if it doesn't cut cupboard all day it is a bad heat treatment!

[@Iamthedudeman00]

jcoolG19 are you sure man, Benchmade has done really good heat treat for years, I have a Benchmade 940 with s30v it poked open a coconut without any issue. They know what they are doing. There is a recent KZbin video some guy did using the Benchmade boost with CPM3v prying opening wooden frames it performed very well. Are you sure aus 8 can live up to the same result given the same weight to this knife? This knife has an incredible light weight for its size it would hard to beat in other steels, edge retention and hardness is not every thing. Also 3v is better known for toughness than wear resistance, why is everyone so caught up on the wear resistance in this video?

[@Iamthedudeman00]

jcoolG19 jcoolG19 my argument is that they didn’t screw up man. That is what they chose to do. I couldn’t find the harness rating on their website for the 3v so it is not like they lied to you. You think some edge getting rolled slightly is the end of the world, but that is not! They designed a super light weight knife that can stand some abuse(I don’t mean you should expect to pry open your car door with it). I think they finally hit a home run again after at least 5 years of not producing very awesome products like the 943,940 and some of the other models. Give them a break. Just because the steel manufacturer recommended harness of such it doesn’t mean for every application it should be heat treated so. This knife is very very thin you know. If your argument is that they heat treatment for something like M390 and S90V are heat treated very soft and don’t cut cupboards all day that might be valid but we are not talking about those knives here. From my KZbin watching so far their M390 and S90v edge retention last very long too. And you shouldn’t care about the actual hardness so much if the edge retention is good any ways. I know I might never change anyone’s opinion on the Internet but this really bother you just don’t buy this model but as far as I am concerned they didn’t lie to you you shouldn’t give them such a hard time. They made their design decisions and they sticked with it. An other example is you could go and complain to colt for not attaching a 100 round magazine to a M16, because “your rifle can shoot 700 rounds a minute but why didn’t it come with 700 round magazine so I can shoot for a minute without reloading?” There are many other factors to consider when it comes to a gun. In fact it doesn’t even come with a 100 round magazine. Similar you will find Spyderco don’t harden their knives very hard because most of their knives have a large round hole and pointy tip they don’t want you to break your knife too easily. A compromise is made when they designed the products, it is a good thing.

[@Iamthedudeman00]

jcoolG19 dude I get what you are saying, but I admit I am not a knife maker but I have an engineering degree so I can give a couple of my point of views. If 3v is already so tough at higher hardness, a lower hardness should make it even tougher, using common sense I guess. I don’t know if cops are going to worry about the knife getting dull or not, I personally haven’t been a cop, but I doubt they worry about it. I am fairly sure the knife will retain a good working sharpness. I personally think this knife is made to be more of a easy to conseal and easy to carry knife, doesn’t add too much weight on you. And when times come you can probably use it as a great defensive weapon, hence the tanto blade, not a curved blade like Spyderco knives which are designed more for slicing and cutting. And for that reason you wouldn’t worry about the Handle being plastic because cutting or stabbing into someone is unlikely to break the handle.

[@Iamthedudeman00]

jcoolG19 jcoolG19 I know there is a lot of this concept going around for knife collectors today: if it is a tactical knife that you advertise and you charge me more than 100 dollars for it, it better be such and such... I just don’t think it is quite fair to just judge the company based all on the knife collectors opinion. I have seen bigger failures with ZT Or Kershaw where the knife lock fails or their M390 or CTS-204P don’t hold an edge better than a Benchmade S30V. I think that is real fail, because they simply didn’t do what they were made for and didn’t give people what they paid for. M390 is no doubt made for great edge retention if for nothing else. But having a knife of this size with just around 2 ounces in weight I found it very impressive. The blade is as thin as a butter knife really. As what you might think that people do in real life tactical situations, I think it may surprise you. Think about what the police officer or marine might do in a day, they kick doors open instead of using a little knife to pry it open, they shoot bad guys down instead of using a “tactical knife” to kill them like Steven Seagal. No one in an active job would want to carry too much weight, cause they carry their tools for the most likely situations. The knife is called bailout it couldn’t describe it better, weight is the most important thing here. As what they might be really using the knife for, I am sure it will cut well and stab well, maybe you can’t slice paper clean right after you cut bunch of cupboards or cable ties, but given its size and weight and the fact you can sharpen it real fast I doubt it would “fail you”. I personally don’t like a none stainless steel in a folding knife but at least they put a coating on it so they thought of everything. As for the handle or lock should fail before the blade, honestly I used to think a full tang knife is always better but later I found from KZbin reviews a Glock field knife without much of a tang can outperform a kabar knife with a stick tang, sometimes it is not so simple to say just based on the type of technology but rather the execution. Benchmade axis lock is pretty superb comparing with many other locks for example. If you want to break something there is always ways to do it but I think they did a reasonable good job with this one. Good chat thanks for listening.

[@Iamthedudeman00]

jcoolG19 also I am getting my Benchmade bailout soon I will also do a review on it, if you haven’t heard enough of my rants you are in luck.:)

[@anthonywaldrep5982]

My opinion on this issue is that I'm not buying the knife to be a pry bar. If I need to pry something, I'm going to get the appropriate tool for that job. I have never in my life needed to pry something with a knife. I also wouldn't thump on a 2 ounce knife. Cutting up cardboard boxes or whittling some wood is the extent that I use my folders for. If I need to baton, I'm grabbing a fixed blade. I am more interested in blade steel and optimum heat treat which Benchmade fell flat on their face with this one. Edge retention is the most important thing to me.Their marketing is also very deceptive with this model and their customer service rep threw out a whole lot of deflection about the issue.

[@Alumapro23]

Anthony Waldrep The was part is the entire knife is affected. Edge retention and all. It is all soft. Using a knife like this on cardboard is going to dull much more quickly than it should and using it on something like wood is going to roll the edge. It is a sad situation all the way around that they really tried to convince everyone that this was done on purpose. The part I hate the most is that it has caused such a divide in the community. I have my favorite brands too, but 💩 is 💩, period. We only hurt each other, the consumer, when we argue for the nonsense these companies are cramming down our throat.

[@anthonywaldrep5982]

@@Alumapro23 I agree 100% and all knife companies should be giving us an optimum heat treat on the knives we buy.

[@Alumapro23]

Anthony Waldrep There’s no reason to when fans of the company are going to argue to the death, against facts, for their favorite company. It’s the same thing that has happened to Case. Even a Case guy that tells you how much he loves Case knives, will not buy one sight unseen. That’s insane to put up with those kinds of stipulations. Some guys even say that about Benchmade. Don’t buy it unless you can hold it first. Insanity.

[@anthonywaldrep5982]

@@Alumapro23 Most especially for what Benchmade is charging for their knives. You make very valid points that I agree with

[@Alumapro23]

Anthony Waldrep It’s sad, but the reality of our situation as consumers. I’ve chosen to vote with my dollars and just pull back from the mass produced stuff and be selective.

[@bulbchangingmonkey]

I use all of my knives and expect the performance of the steel to be what it should be. That said I will not be getting a Bailout

[@Alumapro23]

wrath I think that’s a wise choice.

[@D00MTR33]

I wonder if the cerakote coating process messes with the temper here. Have you tested any of their puukos? Those are 3v too but uncoated . It would be interesting to see if the results match or if there's a difference. But 55hrc on 3v is just a mistake. Huge choppers are ran at 57-59hrc for incredible toughness. On a small fixed blade or a folder it should be 60-63hrc for increase in wear resistance.

[@brianhilligoss]

The knife is straight junk. I went to put a edge pro mirror edge on mine. The steel is so soft it clogged my freshly cleaned and leveled stones.

[@Alumapro23]

brian hilligoss It is a wonder why they have done things the way they have.

[@jamesortiz5388]

I got a free one. I won't bother to sharpen it.

[@richardhenry1969]

Over priced knife brands that's why I carry a coldsteel, I'm not a fan of benchmade overpriced for what you get I like Kershaw for the price but as a mechanic I never pay more the $100 for my knives thanks for calling them out an not being a fanboy

[@Alumapro23]

Richard Henry I’d buy Cold Steel if they were US made. I don’t love backlocks, but I could adjust. With all the lock issues and after the Elmax thing ZT/KAI tried to lie to us about, I don’t support them at all.

[@richardhenry1969]

@@Alumapro23 I feel you I have the Kershaw m390 knockout because its us made but I'm not a fan of liner locks had one give years ago an the fact I'm left handed I like your content thanks for the feed back

[@Alumapro23]

Richard Henry Thanks man 👊

[@chrispittman4826]

I'd like to see benchmade s30v tested as well. Seen other results of 59 and 60 rockwell but frankieblades claims his bugout is 57.

[@Alumapro23]

Chris Pittman Check our the link in jcoolg19’s bio on IG. There’s an entire spreadsheet. Frankie is legit too.

[@chrispittman4826]

@@Alumapro23 thanks. That's an informative spreadsheet.

[@Alumapro23]

Chris Pittman I realize now that not a lot of people know about the spreadsheet. As soon as I can figure out how to record a webinar style video recording my computer screen, I’m going to do a video on the sheet. 👊

[@chrispittman4826]

@@Alumapro23 I've only had IG for a few months so I'm new to knife community on here.

[@Alumapro23]

Chris Pittman Got cha. Well I appreciate you stopping by and I hope you stick around. 👊

[@dannysees]

It's just a bad design, being so light on structure. Very dumb for a tactical knife...but as was said they know it will sell to people who don't actually use knives hard. For the few real users that do purchase one, it's soft in hopes it won't break. Good video.

[@Alumapro23]

dannysees Thanks for view, comment, and the kind words 👊

[@nemesisazn]

Kind of late but I think Benchmade has poor QC or they’re just being cheap.

[@Alumapro23]

It’s a shame. It’s even more of a shame the way they tried to bury this whole thing.

[@mforrest1508]

And I heard 5hrough Shane from millet Knives if your gonna test a blade hrc, you should do it at the edge as the different thicknesses of steel react a little different in heat treatment

[@mforrest1508]

jcoolG19 good to know. I assumed their was a reason people did it that way. He just said they take hardness at the edge and that was not something most makers do. Not sure exactly his method.

[@nathenwallis5664]

Hopefully all of this will make benchmade release a 2.0 version at 60 HRC. I was planning on getting a bailout, but after I saw the testing videos, and heard how soft it was treated, I decided against it, which sucks because I really was excited about getting one

[@Alumapro23]

Nathen Wallis That would be a good thing, but I don’t see it happening. They won’t even speak on the situation.

[@nathenwallis5664]

@@Alumapro23 that's a poor business decision after their bad press a few months ago

[@Alumapro23]

Nathen Wallis I agree.

[@thedrmurchindise]

I have honestly never been impressed with benchmade (aside from maybe two models) the controversy surrounding this particular model solidifies

[@Alumapro23]

thedrmurchindise I just don’t get why the lack of comment from BM. Even at BLADE it was pretty clear that the Bailout was kind of tucked to the side and not talked about.

[@thedrmurchindise]

@@Alumapro23 they can make it right. 3v was probably not the best choice anyhow, this knife in S30v or S35VN hell even D2 wpuld fit the role better than "soft" 3V. Edited for topic adherance*

[@Alumapro23]

thedrmurchindise I agree and if they wanted tough at 56-57, 154CM would have made a lot more sense.

[@timbo4374]

I do have ig and fb, but seldom ever use either one, so yes, it's a valid point from your viewer. BM's explanation is bull shit. I don't care what your profession is, or how you use your knife, nobody wants a low hrc. NOBODY. 3V is plenty tough enough to handle a minimum 58 hrc. closer to 60 is better. BM just stepped on their genital unit with this one. A blade that rolls or even just dulls quickly is useless. Even for a tactical use, if it's dull because you just cut your sandwich in half, then need to defend yourself, that dull blade won't slash your attacker. It's just useless. Stabbing is not the only way to use a knife tactically. Slashing is more used than stabbing in any knife fight, and is less lethal, yet still will usually end a fight in a hurry..you do a long deep slash, especially to the face, but anywhere, it tends to take the fight out of a person. They become more concerned about treating that big ugly gash than getting your wallet from you, and if it's a face slash, then blood in the eyes will be a problem for them. I too use my knives..I don't abuse them, but I do use them, and a knife that dulls faster than 8cr13 is just a pile of garbage. You may as well carry a butter knife.

[@OLMmedic]

Would you want to buy a fararri that can only perform like a jeep. This knife is a brick in the wind, same as a jeep. Just doesant work as a fararri

[@Alumapro23]

olmmedic 💯 my point! People are too emotionally invested to be objective though. 👊

[@ChiTownTx]

In my opinion Benchmade survives today in name only. They were once a great knife company but as they started to explode in popularity over the years this led to more mass production with less quality control. I have just owned way to many of their knives these days that have issues to ever buy from them again. Blade chipping, edge rolling etc. I just steer clear of Benchmade from now on.

[@robertm8401]

Would be disappointing if they under treat their 20CV blades as well. I have a SOCP Folder in D2 and expected this BailOut to be at par or better than that D2 I have.

[@Alumapro23]

Robert M Just saw a result on an Anthem this morning at 57. A good bit of the 20CV/204p/M390 that’s mass produced is low. A lot of people see my results on BM and think it’s a BM issue or I’m taking shots at them, but this is a larger project and we’re testing everything we can get our hands on. There are a lot of BM supporters and this is just the knife that has taken off because the name BM is attached to it.

[@davidmarshall7752]

Talk about "Testing your mettle".

[@mforrest1508]

Both lol. But maybe you can think of it as a sprint run so you can try the steel. I like they are playing with 3v but for sure they can run it harder for a folder.

[@Alumapro23]

Matthew Forrest It’s a waste. This isn’t 3v, at least not what 3v can be. This doesn’t even preform as well as the s30 in the Bugout.

[@mforrest1508]

Alchemy_1 I know. Might as well have used aus 8 at 58

[@Alumapro23]

Matthew Forrest Exactly 👊

[@mforrest1508]

Alchemy_1 actually s30v should perform better anyway though. 3v just has the high edge retention if you take into consideration its impact toughness. M4 would have been a better choice. Takes a beating well and has grea5 edge retention. 3v on a thin slicer.... bad choice from the beginning. Buuuut, I bet it sold a bunch of knives at first 😂

[@Alumapro23]

Matthew Forrest I should have been specific. You’re 100% correct. I was talking 55-57 3v vs 57-58 s30 and edge stability.

[@patcharapongsatian5833]

forgot it, buy griptilian tanto s30v

[@frozenturtlefarts1025]

They have been upsetting a lot of people lately lol.

[@Nutnchancy]

First production beater knife?

[@Alumapro23]

Nutnchancy No, I’ve been into knives seriously for over 15 and a knife owner/carrier for 33 years. My typical go to is Strider.

[@diogallardo6505]

good job just subscribe 👍

[@Alumapro23]

DIO GALLARDO Thanks, man 👊

[@slkknifelover]

Luv them knives channel is doing this already..

[@lovescamaros1]

I think i need to find someone to make me a custom bailout blade in 3v satin finish and 60 hrc.

[@Alumapro23]

david wenzel That’d be cool 👌

[@ocomegashadowstacking5886]

Really amazing knife looks reviews!!! :D

[@Alumapro23]

OcOmega Shadow Thanks 👊

[@hanf022]

Question! There was or is still a first run product of the benchmade bailout in 3v. Is it possible that the normal run has a better heat treatment and they fixed the issue?

[@Alumapro23]

HEY No, there is a good bit of testing that has been done and info shared on IG. Frankie_Blades tested a non first production run and out of 3 readings, the highest was 55. The second blade I also had tested is not a first production run and it was 56ish (can’t remember off the top of my head). It was lower than the first knife I sent in though. Benchmade has gone completely silent. No responses, no press releases, no social media posts about the Bailout, nothing.

[@Alumapro23]

HEY There’s also a BF thread with lots of discussion too. The guy that made the thread pops in and updates with info from IG sometimes. www.bladeforums.com/threads/benchmade-3v.1661653/

[@ReclusiveMountainMan]

@@Alumapro23 They weren't banking on the fact that a consumer would actually rockwell test their blades. LOL

[@Alumapro23]

Matt F Hahaha! I guess not.

[@Grumps5]

What is the probability of Benchmade fixing this issue? Most likely slim to none correct? That's madeness that it's testing that slow, some say theirs tested at 54HRC. Lord....

[@Alumapro23]

Grumpy514 They don’t seem to be interested in engaging the consumers. So, we don’t have any idea. Maybe they’re working on it. Maybe they’re blowing us off. Who knows?

[@jameskerlin6081]

Please tell me it's not Sunday.

[@justinwolf4614]

What a bs answer lol haha Benchmade you just shot yourself in the foot.... Lol we did it on purpose. And why would that not be in the advertising that the hrc is 55. Lol 3v at 55 lmfao

[@williamhartsell6390]

Doesnt even look used lol. I like they using 3v now.

[@Alumapro23]

William Hartsell Check my Benchmade playlist. One of these knives is brand new and sent to me, on loan, to have Rockwelled. The other, I have a video on and you can see the edge fold like a lazy boy and me bring it back without even breaking a sweat. Not sure what’s funny about that...unless you haven’t watched the videos 🤷‍♂️. It’s also clearly known now that the 3v is useless on this model. That is even confirmed by Benchmade. Again, I guess you didn’t watch that portion? I guess you have also not watched Super Steel Steve’s toughness video either?

[@davidtate166]

Not worth 144$ piece of junk.a failer for B m. The steel cpm 3 👎154cpm much better .hipe marking..

[@Alumapro23]

David Tate And sadly, I think the marketing is the biggest issue. That set the frame of reference for the expectations of the knife.

[@davidtate166]

@@Alumapro23 me to.could do better.how about just D2 steel.i don't like cpm3 steel.so much Bull S.in the knive world.buyers be ware.

[@Alumapro23]

David Tate Sadly, D2 has shown itself to be all over the place too. It also has a very large grain structure that isn’t the best scenario for a knife that you want to hold an edge. 3v done right is legit. Search “Strider SA 3V” on here and look at the Monkey Edge and Smokeeater908 videos. I still thing, and agree, that 154cm was the best choice here, for what they claim they wanted to achieve. They’re familiar with 154cm, they probably have plenty on hand or have easy access to some, it’s cheaper, and it already has a proven track record in BM knives. 154cm isn’t sexy though and it doesn’t sell knives.

[@chrisjaskulski8613]

Damnit

[@Alumapro23]

Chris Jaskulski Yup. I’d also look at the geometry of the knives you’re looking at. What strength isn’t found in the heat treatment is found in geometry and the 2 should complement one another.

[@chrisjaskulski8613]

@@Alumapro23 Crooked River S30V, Link M390 and... dont block me... Ganzo FH61 D2... I literally feel like the only knives I can "Hard Use" without fear are my Para3s and Grips. Para3s are underrated workhorses. 'Bout to just cave in and buy an AD10!

[@ToLiveAndDieInMyJs]

FUCK, I just bought this knife

[@Alumapro23]

Sorry, man. Maybe you can return it.

[@neroknives1828]

14 min? Way to long.