Best Motorcycle Battery? Lead-Acid v. AGM v. Gel v. Lithium

[@uski]

I'm an electronic engineer and I freak out every time I see a video like this... because most of them are full of crap. But not yours ! It's mostly technically accurate. I appreciate the research you've done, even if it's not 100% scientifically accurate, it definitely shows that you do your homework and provide meaningful videos for your subscribers. It gives you a lot of credibility. Thank you.

[@ekemon631]

thanks for your confirmation, really appreciated it.

[@sayuas4293]

I'm pretty sure he's an engineer as well, not sure what kind though.

[@Ryan.......]

What were the inaccuracies?

[@uski]

@@Ryan....... oof it's been years, but for instance, using a light bulb instead of a constant current load to determine the battery capacity. Since each battery technology has a different discharge curve, the actual load current will vary during the test. Same for the suicide test. It's mostly a nit, and not a big deal for this video, but it is indeed a less accurate methodology. There are cheap battery chargers (the type used for hobby RC flying for instance) that also have a capacity test, and that can do it properly with a constant current load, and a proper cutoff voltage for each technology. They will give you the actual capacity in mAh or Ah.

[@wazza33racer]

being truthful doesnt pay well..........Musk got rich simply by lying to people over and over again.

[@benjameetsworld]

I just replaced the AGM in my bike with a lithium of the same physical size. Got me 4 times the capacity, half the weight, and 2x the cranking amps. Pretty satisfied so far, especially since lithium prices have gone down since this video came out.

[@2667ooo]

When I went to lithium seller said hey this other battery has twice cca of one in your cart and still fits the space in your bike. I appreciated the suggestion as that seems like the shortfall of lithium. Still half the weight of previous agm. Thanks for reminding me to take off charger for winter(honestly didn't know that cold charging was an issue)

[@DanielFreakinAwesome2]

Have fun in winter lmfao

[@benjameetsworld]

@@DanielFreakinAwesome2 luckily I don't store my bike outside in the snow

[@yourwifesboyfriend6081]

@@DanielFreakinAwesome2Mine did pretty well over the winter. I store it outside and in the mornings I’d get my base layers on, go out and uncover it while turning the lights on and hazards, come back out a few minutes later and she would crank 2-4 times and fire up. Only tried down to 17F though

[@KuntalGhosh]

i have not used a lithium in my bike yet but i did replace the battery in my ups with a home made 12ah 25.6v lifepo4 , i bought the cells and parts for 50$ and it has been 5 years it still holds 100% capacity not even a minute down. under a 300w load my ups would run for 45mins with it , that is similar runtime of 27ah leadacid battery that would cost 3x more . the only issue with cheap lifepo4 cells is that they are not made for high current pulse discharge , so not all cell types can be used as starter battery. for a starter battery the only lifepo4 that i would trust is the lithiumwerks anr26650m1b cells , these are 2.6ah cells but they can deliver 120amp for 10 seconds .. a pack with 4s2p of these cells would easily start a car. a bike is nothing for them but i would put 2 or 3 in parallel to get higher amp hour and watt hour. the leadacid 9ah is measured at a 20 hour discharge down to 10v with very low current. in reality they are more like 4-5ah . in the video the lithium shut off earlier because it has a bms that would prevent the battery from deep discharge and shut off the output if the voltage falls below 2.7v per call or 10.8v while the leadacid has no such protection so it will be discharged deep down to few volts and doing this 3 4 times will kill the battery , in my bike i use 7ah ups battery because they are like 9$ each and work fine for 4-5 years. much cheaper than 25$ "bike battery" , my 220cc bajaj pulsar takes around 18-20amps while cranking and the 7ah leadacid can deliver well above 40amps for few minutes.

[@drfamiliar]

This was great. May I suggest an air filter comparison next? For example OEM vs K&N vs Sprint P-08 vs MWR.

[@balzarini51]

PG 19 uni

[@HalfdeadRider]

Engineering Explained, but I'll tell you, they are better for performance, and still filter well enough. There are many different ones on the market but K&N have always been great, I now have a DNA filter and it is just as well made, pretty much the same.

[@maximilianhoch2508]

May I suggest a general comparison of air filter types?

[@HalfdeadRider]

@@maximilianhoch2508 Again Engineering Explained done a pretty decent vid on it, Ryan saw it too.

[@imbackinthegame3611]

BMC

[@jpgiebl]

Slight flaw in the charging test: As any electric bike/car owner will tell you, Li-ion is fast to charge from 0 to 80%. Above that they charge a lot slower.

[@HandSolitude]

Why would you need it above 80%?

[@okcmoparguy724]

He didnt use Li-ion, that's a lithium iron phosphate cell (LiFePO4). Less energy density than Li-ion but no danger of thermal events and 4000+ charge cycles.

[@ThomMurphy]

That charger charges Lithium with more Volts, less amps. Crappy test.

[@Papparratzi]

@@ThomMurphy yes, that’s just one of the huge flaws. Lithium’s charge the opposite of acid. Start high then low. The test also failed because it’s irrelevant to show the amp hours since the others weren’t likely to actually start a bike. Also, that’s a pathetically small lithium. The lfx 14 with 210 cca and 14 pbq or 4ah is superior. Additionally, the lithium’s will crank harder with a low battery and start better. The problem with the methodology is that it’s not based on reality, it’s based on things that don’t or are unlikely to apply.

[@ThomMurphy]

@@Papparratzi You're correct. Hopefully others will see the points you've made.

[@ctm9191]

Fortnine notification? Why yes, I will drop what I'm doing!

[@thomasbooska1448]

just like we drop our bikes!

[@davidstuck2866]

i was a professional motorcycle mechanic for over 35 years. i lived, eat, breathed etc.etc. motorcycles my entire life. i enjoy your videos very much. they are informative, for the most part no nonsense, and at times hilarious. i especially enjoyed (and side with you) on the Snell vs. DOT (garbage) helmet video, and this is another top quality informative video as well. keep up the good work!

[@rocketsmall4547]

you eat motocycles? how u cook it? deep fry. stir fry steam. pressure cooker. slow cooker. on the grill? i want to eat some

[@seanseoltoir]

Unfortunately, if you have a large head and want a full coverage helmet, your helmet choices are quite limited and even if the helmet is rated to Snell in the smaller sizes, it is only rated to DOT in the larger sizes... I need a 8-3/4 to 8-7/8 size helmet... That usually equates to a 5X if the manufacturer even produces one that large... DOT is better than nothing though...

[@axipher]

I'd actually recommend the Gel over the FLA in a motorcycle due to the slightly safer nature in the event of a crash or dropping a bike.

[@waltermh111]

I was thinking that the AGM was the best when you consider all of the points, but only because of price. It sounds like he said it was $45 while the Gel was over $100, and the AGM wasnt that much worse than the Gel if I remember correctly. Bang for the buck seems to go to AGM and it should be safe in case of a crash or drop also.

[@XxseaboyxX]

As someone with a narcoleptic bike, I went AGM. And watching this video, it was the correct choice. Don't need to worry about a spill when I take a spill and still pretty cheap. Plus I save 200g. Major difference with my DR650 (/s)

[@kwakman99]

Plus... no ugly drain tube poking out the bottom of the bike.

[@ToolkiT73UK]

Especially on an offroader like Ryan rides..

[@rockarola55]

@vic vapor Yeah, and my pappy had the burn scars to prove it.

[@nsr50rst]

This is the most geeky motorcycle channel I've ever seen,and i love it.

[@Lancaster604]

Oh god damn it. I JUST BOUGHT A BATTERY YESTERDAY AND THIS COMES OUT. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[@Pflanzenturio]

Bute the real question is .... how much?

[@MisterCheemf]

Ehh I've never had issues with lead or lithium pick a flavor and go with it

[@revhead9897]

Same, I got a massive gel battery

[@amalkallarackal9293]

Same story here....

[@kilroyishere6190]

Its the same with cleaning out the garage or attic....

[@tadecker82]

I used a 3D printer to build a ventilated "box", in which I was able to place TWO Lithium batteries, which were tied together. Then, I made a tray that drops inside it (over the tops of the batteries), where I can store stuff. The whole package perfectly fits in the space my stock battery occupied, while STILL weighing less.

[@collinyan7467]

why two batteries instead of a bigger one?

[@feloniousmonk3049]

Bad Idea to tie two lithium batteries together, especially during recharging.

[@jborcz1014]

I’m wanting to know more about this. I’ve looked at brands such as NOCO and they give an equivalent to say an EXT14, but I’m guessing most of its empty space. Keep wondering if you could hack them to make a battery that uses all of the space and has far more energy.

[@6Twisted]

I like my Lithium's for the 2.5kg saved from high in the chassis. They also last a lot longer than acid batteries that typically only last a few years. You just have to be mindful of their small capacity and warm them up in really cold weather.

[@timconnors]

I got 10 years out of my last AGM battery. For my use case, this video has helped confirm my last choice not to go LiIon. I did initially consider the total cost of ownership, but part of that cost calculation was knowing that my battery is not going to cause my bike to catch on fire.

[@gbner9991]

@@timconnors enjoy the 3,5kg brick high up inside your bike

[@thewatcher5271]

Lithium Iron Or Lithium Ion? I Think He Was Talking About Lithium Iron. There Is A Difference.@@timconnors

[@kaptein1247]

@@gbner9991 ohh nooo 3,5kg. You must crash and die if you ride after just having eaten your lunch and doing a grocery haul.

[@gbner9991]

@@kaptein1247 it adds up quickly, ofc to each their own, I like my bikes light

[@Enonymouse_]

Never had an issue with Li-ion batteries and i've used them in winter where outside temps can drop to the 10's or less. I also didn't use Shorai which was often commented on as being the most susceptible to parasitic drains and dodgy warranty service. Feedback was from purchasers of the battery.

[@anidiotinaracingcar]

Capacity test: I would have liked to see how many times each can *crank or start* an engine (take more electrons than lighting a bulb)

[@JayJay-tr3ks]

Because amount of energy it draws from the battery varies a lot which makes the test even more pointless than light bulb test.

[@anidiotinaracingcar]

​ Jay Jay No. Cranking an engine is a high amperage scenario and the Lithium battery could very well be able to deliver the same amount of energy as the others if the load was high enough. In other terms, the Li-ion isn't 9 Ah at all like they advertise but one might find the Pb batteries can deliver about 3 Ah when the load is substantial...making them pretty even

[@imadecoy.]

@@anidiotinaracingcar Yes, but it's harder to test that accurately.

[@bunbunson27]

most motorcycle starters draw 70-100 amps. Best way to continously pull those amperage for consistent numbers is the same way Ebikes users do to test their battery capacity. They use a power inverter like a 1000w pure sine wave inverter and hook it up to something like a heat gun in the 900+w range. A 1000w inverter will draw up to 83 amps constant.

[@sniglom]

Yes, I was thinking the same thing. Perhaps running the starter varies a lot, but having another big load, ~1kw @ 12v, and see how that changes with discharge would be really interesting. I've never forgot to turn my lights off, on the other hand, I've had batteries that didn't have the juice to crank the engine.

[@MOTOTREK]

Thanks again, Ryan

[@as242006]

I go with lithium ion now. I have a an 09 Speed triple. These bikes are notorious for charging/ starting issues. I store my bike outside. I go through a battery a year normally, prior to using a lithium ion. Even though the lithium is more pricey it should last me much longer with prolonged periods of “storage”. So far the battery works great and my bike always starts up. Better than ever actually.

[@LukePighetti]

Really great video. Just wanted to mention that Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePo4) batteries have a unique chemistry compared to the average Lithium Polymer (LiPo) batteries and this typically results in failures not being explosive. I'm not sure if it changes the low temperature charging issue, but my recollection is that it improves it compared to common lithium chemistries.

[@skyusable]

As a former ZLA employee I will say it again.(this time publically lol). You guys just keep taking this to another level. Great way to educate your customers, build loyalty and create community. high five!

[@ericshaw7859]

I went from lead acid to Lithium in my previous motorcycle (I never should have sold it with that battery in it). The best advantage was weight and size. I ended up with over half of my battery tray for space for extra tools. I felt extra tools or supplies was by far worth the extra money, especially when on the side of a low traffic road.

[@FARLANDER762]

I accidentally started a turbo-prop engine once with a wrench across the start leads. Smoked (literally) both massive 24V batteries and the aux cart. Caution is advised...

[@DarkIzo]

ryan "batteryboi" f9 uploaded alriiiiight

[@jakelong7756]

"as in puberty some drop is normal" This may be the best youtube channel out there. Thanks for everything Ryan!

[@mikecordeiro2602]

It would be interesting to also know the expected longevity of each type of battery. Great video.

[@halnwheels]

I found this pretty interesting. I have always been partial to AGM batteries, but I got a $38 conventional battery for my 1998 H-D Sportster and I'm into my second season with it and it's holding up great. It stayed in the unheated garage this winter in the New York City area with a ride on it whenever there was a descent day with no salt residue on the road. It's carbureted so sometimes it takes a bit of cranking if it's sat for awhile. I don't take the battery out (a royal pain) and there's no electricity in the garage. The battery takes the cranking no problem and starts up. On the other hand, an old simple bike like this has no parasitic drain either. I was looking into Lithium batteries for my 2003 H-D Ultra Classic and found 14AH batteries for (gasp) $300! These are the ones listed for the bike which comes stock with a 28AH conventional battery. Being Fuel Injected, it starts virtually on the first compression stroke. However there's a good amount of parasitic drain like any modern vehicle. There's the security system, memory for the audio and trip functions. Now, here's the thing about how a 14AH Lithium battery would work. The bike starts instantly, and the battery is capable of taking as high current load. This is how those car jumpers work. But if you leave your radio on and you have those colorful show-off lights, that 14AH is going to go fast. And on an older bike it's not going to take too much cranking. For $300, I don't get it. Now for the guys and gals who zip around on bikes with sliders and such, I get that you're concerned about going down and what a mess conventional battery might make. AGM takes care of that. But the thing that bothers me most about Lithium is the fire potential. I have experience with LiPo batteries and I know that a lot of people charge them in Ammo Boxes because of the fire hazard. I know the chemistry of Lithium Iron is different than Lithium Ion or Lithium Polymer, but it has very similar fire potential. By the way, early Lithium batteries had a 1C rating which means that you don't want to pump more than the rated AH into it per hour. But a lot of advances have been made in that regard and I've seen 10C charge rating on some batteries. That means you can charge at 140 Amps (at 12v) into these. That little battery tender charger is not going to cut it. Also, why do you need a special charger for Lithium? I ask this because the vehicle it's in is not designed for it. I thought there is special circuitry buried in the case that manages the peculiarities of Lithium charging.

[@dcyphyr]

TLDR

[@Faetter-Blobs-Filmbiks]

Cool story bro

[@halnwheels]

@@Faetter-Blobs-Filmbiks Thanks. By the way, I just came back from a ride on my Sportster. The bike started right up after sitting for weeks. And it has the same battery I wrote about 2 years ago. I have electric in the garage now so it’s been on a tender and I’m sure that helps. Have a great riding season!

[@davnape14]

The production value and the dedication put into these videos are the reason I watch these even though I don’t own a bike. Good job, keep it up :)

[@humbertorequenadelarosa726]

Not the first time I find a comment like this in this guy's videos. It's really funny how people who don't own motorcycles watch him for his, lest's say "cinematic quality" xD

[@davnape14]

@@humbertorequenadelarosa726 okay, instead of "cinematic quality", call it "i find it really entertaining"

[@ДмитрийМолчанов-о9с]

Man, this is the best channel on KZbin about motorcycles ever!!! Thank you for the great job👍👍👍

[@TheUTVAdventureRider]

This is spot on from a principal standpoint and great info. Having been in the battery industry 20 years I’d just impress upon you that there are good options (better than what was tested) in all categories but gel. There’s solid flooded, a little better lithium, and light years better agm out there. Such a great vid.

[@MarcGXE95]

4 years back I replaced my 2009 R1200GSA battery for a Antygravity ATX 12-24 (what they claim 720CCA), the largest they had I could fit in the space! (Replacing also the legacy relays that were draining) Love it and even boosted a freinds F250 diesel on a cold spring evening!

[@Hornet.919]

Just last night I was looking into batteries and now I see this. God bless you F9

[@hawgietonight]

Hi, maybe I can explain the slow charge for Lithium bateries. Was many years ago an electronic designer and was tasked with designing a charger for the batteries used in those fancy hospital beds. Short story is that lead batteries are charged with a constant current system, while Ni-Cd for example (probably Lithium too) used a constant voltage approach. A constant voltage approach means that there is gradually less current suplied when the target charge level is reached. With constant current it is giving it all the beans untill it tops off, which is faster but only the tough lead acid batteries could take reliably. I didn't get any of the prototypes sent back so they must have worked ok.

[@BigUriel]

In a car or motorcycle the battery ends up being charged at constant voltage anyway doesn't it? The alternator/regulator maintains a pretty constant voltage and it will just throw as many amps at the battery as it can take, which will be a lot right after cranking but it will only take a few seconds to drop off as it shouldn't take more than some 30 seconds to charge it back up to full capacity from one crank.

[@hawgietonight]

@@BigUriel Depends on each vehicle and it's designed system but the alternator is going to be the limit on how many amps are fed into the regulator and the battery. On ex VFR750 it used a basic zener shunt from a three fase ac alternator, and the rating for the zeners where about 2v over the nominal battery voltage... that meant the the battery was given no current limit while under its nominal voltage. The regulator design is quite crappy and didn't maintain a very stable voltage, but for an old school carbed engine it was good enough. And it was ok for lead acid that could take that beating. I don't know how a lithium battery would fair in that system. Modern bikes are another story, but in the end are designed for a given battery type and charging scheme.

[@BigUriel]

@@hawgietonight Yes older older bikes had some crappy electronics, I know Hondas used a very simple regulator circuit that actually didn't provide constant voltage at all but instead only put out like 12V at idle which climbed to around 15V at around 4-5000rpm then levelled out. Lithium batteries would not like this at all (even for lead acid ones it's a terrible charging method that guarantees your battery will be overcharged and have a shortened lifespan during normal road riding, but will not be properly charged and will go flat if you spend too much time in traffic with your lights on). But cars and modern bikes all put out a pretty constant 14-14.5V in all conditions, in which case except for cars with a battery controller (which needs to be programmed for the characteristics of the battery fitted) the charging circuit will just pump out as much current as it can deliver as soon as the engine fires up. Modern cars typically have alternators around 2KW so for a few seconds after starting the engine the battery is being charged with well over 100 amps, which decrease gradually as the battery voltage increases. I think modern bikes are around a quarter of that.

[@nickb9563]

1:59: "why would anyone do that?" Two words ryan, *cafe racers*

[@acvn-hg9gy]

first thing i thought!

[@cyriously_nick2191]

Nick B the scrambler I’m building will need it to be mounted upside down! Silly Ryan forgot about us

[@rockarola55]

@@cyriously_nick2191 Well, as a former Cafe Racer builder (XLCR 1000 and '75 CB 750) I don't blame Ryan for forgetting Caf' builds...taking a perfectly functional bike and making it less fuctional is an exercise in futility. I love the look of a Caf' but try doing 1500km in a weekend and you'll be ready to trade it for a beat-to-shit UJM :-)

[@jakeedgell591]

@@rockarola55 it's not less functional, just a different function. You compromise comfort for agility and speed.

[@rasulmalachidibirov7691]

Jake Edgell you don’t really build cafe racer for speed do you ? I would say it’s more about style .

[@dcxplant]

47 years of riding, never knew so much about batteries; This was great!

[@twotiretirade4624]

The science was beyond my limited brain capacity but I enjoyed it anyway. I cant compute how FortNine made this entertaining. I am a smarter two wheeled enthusiast for watching!!!

[@johneastman1905]

This kid is one clever well educated duck and knows how to get it across to us …

[@ChromeArty]

The fact you said "posthumously" with the trumpets... was amazing. I see someone else has watched too many war docs 😁

[@mattthomson1689]

Geez; so many critics out here....anyway, love your chalk board work, with terrific documentation. Irrevocably motivated me to check for written details at all times. But then, I am from the era of “wet-cell” batteries, purchased dry and in prime condition, supplied with a boxed bag of acid. Carefully add the acid, let it sit overnight and top off the level the next day (after a hearty down-town breakfast special). Then install it and go for a back-roads ride, feeling the battery for excessive warmth from time to time. Ah, so relaxing; no Li-Ion this or that accompanied by Marketing / Sales BS. Love Factory repair manuals, Machinery Handbook, and raw, first-hand stories from other riders. Thanks for the show!

[@mrfreddyfudpucker2185]

Greetings from Tasmania, Australia where the outro video came from (HEC=Hydro Electric Commission/Corporation). SLA/Gel seems most popular here.

[@patc9102]

Wow. First time watching one of your videos. Was looking for plain info and got so much more.

[@tasneemkhandaker]

One note about lithium batteries: The "emptier" they are, the faster they charge. As a Li battery charges it starts charging slower near the top of it's capacity. The slowdown is most noticeable after 80%. (If I am not mistaken)

[@lomasck]

I put a Lithium battery in my ATC 70 (125m motor ) bolted sideways up in the frame in 2013 & never looked at it since.2024 it still cranks fast & never gone flat.

[@rookpl7877]

Entertaining and informative as always, thumbs up! Could you make a temperature comparison between black and white helmets?

[@Briefcase217]

YES, Please do this!

[@angelocardoc]

And a comparison on helmet venting. Best vent, IMO, is opening the visor. Tiny vent holes do squat.

[@balzarini51]

About one degree either way blk vrs wht

[@rookpl7877]

@@balzarini51 Did you check that yourself in comparable environment and trustworthy thermometer? I know there are few videos on youtube about this, but I'm sceptical on parts of their metodology.

[@balzarini51]

Rook PL that’s just what I heard from my hjc rep at work who stock our helmets, Hess been doing it for 20 years

[@armyofshea7941]

Genius. Love the taps playing in the Suicide test

[@mcamodell]

Gel is a lot cheaper than you listed, matching AGM in most places I've looked. I think it's the clear winner from what you showed here.

[@viovillanueva7902]

Fortnine is a guilty pleasure. U wont share it one social media coz its dorky geeky, but u still watch it coz u are geeky at heart

[@michaelvachon1334]

"...because Canada..." Love it! Yet another insightful analysis. Thanks for confirming my disdain for expensive acronyms...

[@bandogbone3265]

Excellent info, excellent presentation! My solution, after experiencing several issues in this area, is: AGM in the bike, carry a Lithium jump starter (I have a Noco GB40, which can be charged on the bike via USB, but there are many others to choose from), practice push-starting in various settings (easier and safer than one might suppose, don't forget to change to a higher gear and turn on the key and run switch), frequently check your stator and rectifier/regulator (make sure voltage across the battery rises after you start the bike), and always plug in a trickle charger when the bike is parked at home (I have a Battery Tender). Also carry jumper cables on long trips (thinner wires with smaller clips suffice, make your own if necessary). Be aware that most bikes won't jump or push start if the battery has gone into deep discharge, so plan, prevent, and prepare accordingly.

[@dariostarsky8124]

AGM plus a jump starter/power bank - my thoughts exactly!

[@chriswilliams1914]

What about high temp performance for your friends to the south? It's going to be 113F (45C) today.

[@Zerzil1974]

I absolutely love that these videos have a Canadian component rather than just catering to the most important country in the world.

[@christophersparkman]

I have a couple Shorai batteries. Love them!

[@antnyneveruploads]

This is one of the best channels on KZbin, not just for motorcycle stuff but in general

[@ZaeroS182]

YES!! FortNine's content keeps getting better each video, keep it up guys!

[@cisium1184]

Interesting video. If I lived in Canada or back in the northern USA, I would choose a different battery.

[@DonnDIY]

Very scientific and informative. Thoroughly enjoyed it and learned a lot. Cheers for the videos!

[@matiasedward507]

sorry to be so offtopic but does anyone know a method to log back into an Instagram account? I somehow lost my login password. I appreciate any assistance you can give me!

[@abramdrake4510]

@Matias Edward Instablaster :)

[@matiasedward507]

@Abram Drake Thanks for your reply. I found the site thru google and I'm waiting for the hacking stuff atm. Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will reply here later with my results.

[@matiasedward507]

@Abram Drake it did the trick and I finally got access to my account again. Im so happy:D Thanks so much, you saved my account !

[@abramdrake4510]

@Matias Edward Happy to help =)

[@bruceparr1678]

I bought a 1984 MZ 250 brand new. I used it as a commuter until 1994. It was then retired to the shed. When I retired in 2016 I decided to get it running. The original FLA battery was nearly dry. I topped it up with tapwater and charged it up. I am still using that battery today.

[@WestSussexBiker]

informative and interesting yet again. Ryan, you have just saved me pounds again not buying a Lithium battery. Sticking to the AGM.

[@bailey9r]

But that will cost you lbs ;

[@Fekillix]

@@bailey9r Take a shit before you ride and it equals out.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

@@Fekillix 5 pounds of it? That's not healthy.

[@wobblysauce]

@@exothermal.sprocket Might need more fibre in their diet.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

@@wobblysauce Too compacted. Get some celery, carrot, kale, and other fibrous stuff moving it through.

[@riceburnerbiker1483]

I got a Suzuki Boulevard C90T 1500cc Been using 230 cold cranking amps. I’m moving up to 260 CCAmps. Starts an1800 cc bike..! I cruise with an extra battery and a jump start battery, fix a flat, fire extinguisher(small cans) Tools.. everything fits in one saddle bag. In case the battery quits. Plus I’ll share if I happen upon you with mechanical problems. Got a cheap volt AC/DC meter to quick check. I can jump a V-8 Had two wiring burns.. a battery got me home. Now I got extra.. and no more problems. A stronger CCA seems to be the trick. I cruise about 600 miles a week in fair weather... The cold is ok.. the rain , not so much🤩

[@arghyl]

3:05 because Canada 😂🤣😂😭😂😂 need more one liners Ryan. Awesome video

[@danielrobey1759]

The shorai battery in my klr is going on 6 years old. Most winters I leave it installed (Iowa winters) and it never misses a beat! The light weight is a huge plus too!!

[@ThisTall]

I LOVE these. 1 thing to consider when testing lithium against the rest is that your machine will always be built with a battery holster the size of the bigger battery. And you can rarely use the extra space so it’s almost fare to compare a lithium of the same size as the others. In that case it will certainly beat them all at everything.

[@tylerhall6455]

was thinking the same thing. Test a lithium battery the same dimensions of the others...

[@thorin1045]

@@tylerhall6455 and pay triple or more price

[@UnimpressedAussie]

would have been a more fair test :)@@tylerhall6455

[@diycarguy6241]

Several flaws in this guy's tests. Ultimately, all of these formats are designed to produce the necessary amps/current to crank the application. The difference comes down really to all of the other features/benefits you may or may not value in your particular use case - things like ease of maintenance, sealed/spill-proof and non-gassing design, vibration resistance, cycle life, ability to withstand/rebound from deep discharge, self-discharge rate, recharge rate, versatile orientation options, reduced terminal corrosion and, of course, price.

[@motoryzen]

revzilla uploads the last Highside/lowside video until September 2019 and I get a notification for a Fortnine video. xD Good day today.

[@STho205]

This is the most universal to modern life review you've ever done. Rock solid analysis and spot on physics math. Consumers, consider this not only for a small starter battery in a bike or car, but the real life physics of EVs and grid or solar storage batteries. A certain big player is counting on your ignorance to physics. Lithium is chosen for expensive EVs today: 1. because it stays steady a long time and discharges all at once toward the end. So a car will act normal until the last 10% of capacity. 2. Lithium batteries are much smaller and lighter for the capacity and voltage 3. You can cheat the math and use a battery with 1/3 the actual capacity and call it a lead acid equivalent, PLUS charge three times as much for a battery 1/3 the capacity. The LED lightbulb scam. 4. They are relatively solid state like flashlight drycells. However, charging a frozen battery damages Li much more than Lead Acid and her twin sisters. Consider that oh people of the frozen North without heated garages. Running a battery to fully dead will kill it forever. Lead Acids will stop doing their job long before they are chemically dead and you remedy it. Li will keep acting like a full battery until you are on a dark lonely road and then die quickly and fully, ... That is w/o protective software that would rather strand you two miles from the station with power still in the cells, requiring a lengthy and expensive tow, than allow the precious and expensive Li batteries *under factory warranty* to be permanently damaged. There is no free lunch with chemistry. No magic box. Li is a bad idea, except if you used Lead Acid your EVcar would weigh 12,000lbs instead of 4,000 to go 300 miles, and the last 130 of those miles would be on ever dropping voltage.

[@savejeff15]

Usually, i find your videos very well researched but here i have some point of criticism: - cranking happens at a rate of 50A and more. at these high currents, there is a significant difference between lithium and lead batteries - lithium batteries have around 10 times more charge/discharge cycles. - considering that you do not need a charge for your lithium batteries, you can save that money buying one instead of a charger and a lead batterie the right conclusion IMHO would be: for offroad and cold climate riding lithium has disadvantages. if you are living in Europe or middle America there are some notable advantages to lithium. lithium batteries might last much longer before needing replacement in these milder climates. last but not least in race applications weight reduction is very important. reducing the weight of your bike by 2-3kg is a no-brainer for around 50-100$ more.

[@swagger897]

Agreed. And I'd be interested to see a test comparison between different brands of Li batteries because of how maintenance free they are and performance they put out. If I'm paying as much as I am for an Li battery to not have to add acid/water/etc for other batteries, I'm fine with that so long as it's starting up every time with normal use. And even when it gets garaged for weeks/months, it's nice to know that I didn't need a tender on it and waste power when it stores it just fine.

[@folxam]

Well, "Europe" is a broad term. I live in a pretty cold climate in the winter, with temps dropping to -20 Celsius which is around zero of the freedom units. My AGM is a bit moody when it's that cold, I wonder how a lithium battery would feel?

[@Jin-Ro]

@@folxam Not had a problem with my Lithium and storage. Mind you, it only gets to around -6ish around here. Cranks the bike and starts it no problem when it finally gets up to 2c, my minimum riding temp

[@HalfdeadRider]

My lead acid and my lithium both have 180 cca, if you store your battery over winter and want to keep an alarm on on your bike for instance, you will need a charger. And a proper lithium one if you want the cores balanced correctly to prolong life, with Shorai they have an extra plug on their chargers/batteries, that means Shorai chargers only to balance the cores. I got a Shido, with these types you need a charger like the TecMate OptiMate Lithium 0.8A Battery Optimiser. They cost more than the battery itself, my battery cost around £45 for my ER6f (Ninja 650r). It's good to charge them with the correct charger occasionally to balance the cores as the bikes charging system will not, just as a normal trickle charger will not.

[@folxam]

@@Jin-Ro storage?! Nah, I ride all year round, rain sleet or snow.

[@charlesseymour1482]

I worked for a battery company designing manufacturing processes for lithium carbon anodes and I choose the same flooded lead

[@VX300]

Love the video, but I gotta say that with my bike going off road every so often, I'll stick with the more shock resistant AGM.

[@youtubeaccount5153]

Need a new battery. I remembered Ryan did this video. Had to watch it a number of times to fully digest it. Incredible amount of relevant, useful information in a 12 minute video. And entertaining as usual for Ryan and the crew. They are truly talented, intelligent, thoughtful, and ground-breaking. I wholeheartedly disagree with what seems to be his choice at the end. He is a bit cryptic. Which he likes to be. And I am sure he recognizes and respects that different people will come to different conclusions about which choice they would make. Since I am in “not Canada”, so the Li charging excitement is probably not relevant, and I want the weight savings, I think I’ll give the Li a shot. LOL. I see my post two years later. I bought the Li for my KTM Super Duke and my Yamaha WR250R. Extremely happy with both. Left the Yami at my daughters house. Admittedly “not Canada”. Midlands area of South Carolina. There were a few extreme temperatures in the winter. Extreme being mid-20’s for a few days. Maybe a week. Pulled the bike out of storage nine months later it fired right up. No problems with the KTM either.

[@GandalftheWh1te]

Man, I love these types of videos.

[@Caluma122]

Weight and storage were my two main points of contention. As someone who rides invariably on low power machines, it's good to cut the weight and have something that'll store for when I decide to ride.

[@ashleynunes9662]

A man was arrested last night for drinking battery acid, he was later charged

[@Buckarooskiczek]

Obviously a case of voltage fraud.

[@kkhalifah1019]

That's shocking. Watt was his name?

[@Texreo]

Gale Bolt.

[@temperspace]

Police reports that he offered some resistance during the arrest

[@Oilcruzer]

When asked where he was taught to drink battery acid, he said from his mom as he was Ohm Schooled.

[@chrisdowd1826]

Brilliant. Taught a complete know-nothing me, which type to choose for my bike for my needs for where I live. Thank you.

[@WALLPAP3R]

This video charged me up but then left me drained.

[@bailey9r]

At least he gave insight as to how to regen you!

[@dhrubabagchi5099]

Hope you are not in southern hemisphere winter, it will then take a while to tickle you up again.

[@johnalogue9832]

I'm shocked you got away with this joke

[@davidjames1684]

That is fine, as long as you don't get caught self discharging.

[@JohnErikjohansson]

TRUE

[@marksman303]

Best motorcycle channel on KZbin.

[@ttv2951]

You missed a pun Ryan (one charger to fit them all 🙄) great video once again to dig under the marketing blurb, best ever ?.😎👍

[@rodzilla134]

Great comparison!! Battery discussions are rampant on MC Forums. Almost as bad as tire and oil threads...Almost. I'll say this: My road bike has a standard and CHEAP lead-acid battery that's been going strong for 5.5 years. My dirtbike has a Shorai that's been in about that same amount of time. Our Jet ski burned the OEM lead-acid in 2 years. The AGM replacement lasted 4 years and was just replaced with another AGM. I thought about getting a Li battery, but they were around $240, compared to the AGM's $85. That battery would have to last 12 years to be worth the money. All this to say, I truly believe different batteries are useful in different applications. Either way, thanks again!

[@LalondeJonathan]

Good video, by the way. Happy to have learned that lithium batteries have actually less capacity. A bummer, considering the high premium.

[@savejeff15]

the high capacity of the old led acid batteries where only needed for the deficiencies of that type of batteries. led acid batteries with lower capacity have lower discharge current and while henceforth drop too much voltage to start your bike. lithium, on the other hand, can be only partly charged and they will have little problem putting out loads of current. last but not least: 2-3kg weight reduction is huge for racing bikes. also Lithium batteries have around 10 times more charge/discharge cycles. they should in theory last way longer than your standard batterie that has to be replaced every 4 or so years

[@charliethechaplin]

I'm now regretting my purchase because I needed a battery with the most capacity so I bought the most amp hours (AH) WTF are we doing here with "equivalents" ....some straight up bullshit. No wonder my heated grips killed my brand new battery

[@Stoney3K]

I think the major selling points for installing a Li battery is because they are considerably lighter and you can mount them wherever you want. Not a big concern if you want to replace a factory battery, but it can be a consideration for the custom bike crowd.

[@charliethechaplin]

@@Stoney3K I wanted the most electrical capacity that can fit in my battery box, so I can run lights and heated gear. I feel lied to

[@Angry-Lynx]

They are much more expensive because they are dedicsted for motorcycles. Check out lipo hardcase in rc hobby shops witu same or even better parameters for much less.

[@andrewrussell1678]

I've been reading for 2 hours then found this .Well done I was fooked with differing opinions

[@jedielder7970]

I like the lithium battery for smaller and lighter bikes, like my MX race bike. For a big cruiser, which I also have, I use gel. Thanks for the video!

[@chrishart8548]

The gel is worth the extra coin . I got a dynavolt gel battery it's blue and higher ah but the same size. Very happy so far. Feels like a solid block of plastic to handle its solid.

[@The77Game]

I love my gel battery. I just pulled out my bike after the winter and it had been stored away for about 5 months. I forgot to charge the battery before so i wanted to charge it before attempting to start the bike for the first time. To my surprise it took 5 minutes and then the charger showed that it was full. The bike even started up right away to prove that the battery was indeed full. 5 months with close to no discharge.

[@BOYVIRGO666]

Iv been thinking of buying one of these lithium batteries. In california they are fairly viable.

[@lemster101]

I have one in my Fireblade and am not going back to regular batteries ever again. I understand cost is an important factor for many, but the $80 or so difference between the batteries over its lifetime isn't that big of a deal to me. In return you get a shockingly light battery. Seriously, the first time I handled one, I thought it was a dummy. It's more than 4 times as light as a regular battery. You might not care about well over 2 kg weight savings of you ride a heavy, non sporty motorcycle, but if you have the latest supersport dressed up in carbon fiber, titanium and magnesium bits it's a bit silly to not go with the way lighter battery for not that much more.

[@kleinbottled79]

@@lemster101 Agreed. In the bicycle world weight weenies look at things in terms of grams saved per dollar. Don't have to go too far in upgrading a supersport before the weight savings of a lighter battery becomes the best upgrade for your dollar.

[@AlexxZhulin]

@@kleinbottled79 Yes. Even in R9 900gs battery is placed high and weight difference is noticeable. Try to strap 2 Coca-cola bottles to the top of your tank and see how it handles on low speed.

[@kfjfjfjewlsls]

I think you should've tested a fast and heavy load, like starting a motorcycle :P

[@GeneralElectricCNC]

Thank You! I would have never guessed that outcome. I just bought a new AGM for my bike.

[@6Twisted]

I found the opposite when I replaced my 3 year old lead acid with a lithium battery at not much more cost. No trouble with cold starts anymore (tested down to 1c so far) and it saved about 3kg from a 174kg (wet) bike.

[@chocolate_squiggle]

There are valid reasons for switching to lithium depending on your situation and usage. But I'll never understand peoples obsession with saving a couple kg. Jesus my weight can change that much from one day to the next depending when I eat or take a dump.

[@HungryTv13]

@@chocolate_squiggle he probably just wanted to lose the weight on the motorcycle to be able to gain some body fat by eating fast food.

[@collinyan7467]

what? I use an off brand lithium battery and its 3x the cost of a lead acid on amazon ($90 vs $30) It is a bit overspecced compared to what my bike needs but i wanted to be safe and give myself some cca headroom

[@collinyan7467]

@@chocolate_squiggle depends on the use case and the pounds add up. plus having the weight on the motorcycle vs the weight on you makes the bike handle different. if youre counter leaning then the bike turns in a lot faster if you move a few pounds from the bike to you.

[@jacksonwholeexperience409]

Just bought a new battery for my FZ-07 beginning of summer. I did a LOT of research and made a few phone calls, emailed RevZilla, etc. When I got the new Yuasa AGM shipped, I went to take out the old factory Yamaha battery to replace it and it was the EXACT same as I ordered. I take pride in my research. I'm as great as the Yamaha engineers!

[@nightdipper5178]

Lithium works best because as you mentioned it provides more amps when cranking, this should have been tested. More power cranking the motor will start the bike quicker->less cranking time. Weight advantage is huge. Cold temps are the biggest issue with Lithium but It doesn't get cold where I live.

[@yourwifesboyfriend6081]

It got down to 17F last winter where I am and my lithium battery did well. Just would go uncover it and turn the lights on, get the rest of my gear on then she’d fire up in a few cranks. Freed up space for a flat repair kit.

[@nightdipper5178]

@notexpatjoe Your nuts, a motor draws current based on torque. It does not draw the same current when under load compared to no-loaded. A lithium battery will provide more current because of the way it discharges compared to a lead acid. In the real world a lithium battery starts every bike I have quicker than a new lead acid battery.

[@nightdipper5178]

@notexpatjoe Unless you have a need I don't recommend a lithium battery. Due to the potential of a fire, another con would be bad performance in the cold. If your battery works very well you will likely not benefit from a lithium battery. Pro's would be weight and potentially higher cca. The slower the starter motor turns (underload) the more amps it will draw. I do run a Lithium in a sub 300 pound 650 SM thumper where I save pounds over the conventional battery, and it starts significantly better. I will occasionally use one to start a 2-stroke 1200 and other motors. I normally use a conventional batteries to start these. The lithium does a noticeably better job, but won't use them regularly on these motors because of the fire danger.

[@LVIS-a]

The weather is getting nicer, my battery needs replacing. First stop: free fortnine video. Awesome!

[@thereecious]

Can you do a video on trail braking and rev matching. Also tour thoughts on braking methods in respect to track and on road.

[@shoobie]

MCRider does very good videos on trail braking on his channel!

[@DrTranofEvil]

Threw a Shorai Lithium into my old (carbureted) Vulcan and never had a day’s problem. That said, I used to carry a jump-starter battery in case of issues and did manage to leave my key dangling on the side of the bike when I walked away (not a fan of the side-mounted key, forgot the thing multiple times as I’d use the kill switch and nothing told you anything was on from the dash). Full discharge didn’t seem to hurt it. I ran it for four years (flawlessly) and traded the bike in later as I got tired of keeping up with the rust on the frame/exhaust and it was in need of having the carbs rebalanced (had a job with 100% travel, so I only had weekends to mess with my bikes and I wanted to ride, not wrench).

[@billerker]

It would be nice to know the condition of the batteries following the complete discharge.

[@USARAY1947]

My Ballistic battery wouldn't charge under any circumstances after completely discharging. Ballistic tech said it was junk now.

[@jasonputtock4428]

GEL - AGM will never recover. they lose 20 % each time they totally discharge. never let themdrain away. lead acid is only option.

[@axelbostrom3606]

Lithium, AGM and GEL are destroyed but the flooded one might be recoverable idk

[@Vessekx]

Bill Erker, the health of a ‘fully discharged’ Lithium-chemistry battery will depend on *one* factor. Does it have a protection circuit which prevents it from discharging below unsafe voltages? If it does, it’ll be fine. If it doesn’t, it’s trash.

[@wobblysauce]

Can trick the smart chargers to put power back in with putting another in parallel of a good battery. Gotten many back from the dead and are running quite fine... it is a marketing trick for most. Need to sell more product.

[@Cs4lifeNameless]

This guy is amazing, I dont even own a motorcycle but I wached every video. Keep up the good work !

[@alisterroquer2899]

Will I be responsible and watch the new fortnine video tomorrow instead of 6am? No, I don't think I will...

[@Theairguitarguy]

Thanks for this! I learned more in about batteries in 9 mins than I have in my whole life 😆

[@ajsmotolife5641]

AGM are super cheap on Ebay/Amazon. I've had really good luck with them, in fact they are usually cheaper than most lead acid. $25-35 for most bikes.

[@pinkpuffin187]

you got a good deal. I think my AGM that I got last year was about $120

[@Wooley689]

@@pinkpuffin187I just bought an AGM three months ago for my Road King, could not find a lead acid around here anymore in a pinch on a Saturday. It cost me $170 for the Duracell Ultra. Hope to find a Lead acid, last one lasted almost five years, the AGM wouldn't crank the bike after sitting a week. According to the MFG tag it was already 6 months on a shelf before I bought it.

[@sayuas4293]

Don't buy cheap chinese batteries, you are playing with fire, literally

[@tnorthy92]

Loving the deadpan "small short, big fire"

[@FRANK-cents]

For years and years I used the standard led acid battery in my 95 virago with the same results of dead battery = no riding 😭 . Finally gave up on buying what the dealer suggested and brought a lithium which was $50 more expensive and have had no problems in 3 years . Best purchase ever 👍

[@josephfraser-fitzsimons6177]

I just like every Fortnine Video before the video starts because I know it's going to be amazing

[@chrispaparcuri5039]

You seem to have left out the most important real-life test: how long will they last before you have to replace them?

[@tomdickharryjane]

How do you test that?

[@ungefeiert]

@@tomdickharryjane just use them daily for about 6 months and then predict the life span, not that much harder to do.

[@chrispaparcuri5039]

@mike h I dont doubt that. It's a question of whether they would have enough of a longer life span to justify the extra cost.

[@mustbescud]

@@chrispaparcuri5039 8 years, was the longest I've heard. kzbin.info/www/bejne/r3XKhoOJib6Mgpo I heard it here

[@johanz2460]

@@mustbescud mine lasted 7, just died today

[@andrewblahut6213]

I swear this is the best channel on KZbin

[@jeffbeasley8235]

Curious how a real 9Ah lithium would do (or even a 6Ah). It would cost more and be heavier, but should take the performance crown in every category.

[@wolfe1970]

Not charging time, was slower with just 3Ah going in

[@CraigPestell]

@@wolfe1970 Or price

[@davidjames1684]

Slower on that one charger, but not slower for ANY and ALL chargers. This was a biased test. For large heavy motorcycles, just get an oversized discounted AGM or gel battery. For crotch rockets, get a lithium with more CCAs than the stock non lithium battery.

[@Bubbles99718]

Bikes have alternators. That little tidbit was left out of this review.

[@johnklumpp7901]

@@Bubbles99718 - Ah yes, but motorcycles also have rectifiers; which fact YOU seemed to ignore?

[@cujoedaman]

I'm betting there's a few reasons why the lithium battery charged longer. 1: Modern lithium batteries quick charge up to 80%. Beyond that, they'll switch to a trickle charge, but we don't know if that charger is capable of quick charging either. 2: The charger doesn't "know" the battery, unlike your tool batteries with matching charger that can quick charge because the electronics are tuned to each other. The charger could be set to "play it safe" mode. 3: Who knows how the battery is constructed. A lot of cheap lithium batteries out of China are usually made cheaper (therefore, more dangerous) and are often rated lower than their stated capacity (and in some cases, higher).

[@lj516]

LiFePo4 WON'T COMBUST IF PIERCED. That's why it's used in this application :)

[@MrLobsterity]

Thats a boring battery

[@darthjump]

Perfect Balance of Humor and Knowledge. As all Videos should be.

[@stimpsonjcat26]

I have always wondered about these "special" chargers for different batteries. The thing is, you put the batteries in a vehicle that charges them all the same way regardless of what type they are.

[@bigjack5426]

Right??? My klr650 charges lead and lithium the same way.