Best Practices: Integrating MIDI Pedals on Your Rig

Today, the Rig Doctor is showing you his best practices for harnessing the power of MIDI on your pedalboard!
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#RigDoctor #MIDICables #Pedalboards

[@sqlb3rn]

This cable info is so useful... in a world of plugin demos and amp sims, had a hard time finding any guitar rig wiring info outside of basic 1/4 TS cables. Putting together a two amp stereo rig, utilizing both FX loops and keeping the signals separated after I duplicate the mono signal... and controlling it all with a loop switcher amp switchers and midi foot controller, has been a real exercise and learning experience in everything from configuring the midi foot controller, to soldering custom TRS/TS adapter cables, to dealing with ground loops. Not the flashiest stuff for youtube videos. I have the full stereo RJM Effects Gizmo, and since the switcher is rack mounted and there are two amps, all my pedals are on a couple of rack shelves for short cable runs to to the switcher. So something normally simple like a $40 volume pedal in the FX loop, suddenly turns into two midi controllable volume modules that can sit on a rack shelf for $275 a pop, plus the expression pedal. I'm deep into it now but sometimes wonder why I didn't just get a multifx processor.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching!

[@_anthsucks7186]

This covered so much of what I vaguely asked the other day. Thank you so much Uncle Mason

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glad it was helpful!

[@Souldoubtrocks]

Thank you mason.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

You're welcome

[@kristenrocksfrags8584]

Lots of great info! Can you recommend a builder in NY? I’m currently rebuilding my rig so I have the G3 on the way, and I have a bunch of new pedals coming too! I’m totally new to MIDI so I might need some assistance getting that all together. That Disaster Area MIDI out looks really useful because I just got the Blooper Kernom Ridge so I’ll need TRS just for those. The other MIDI pedals I got are 5 pin so that’s not so bad! I wonder if it would be easier to just put the Kernom and Blooper last and use TRS cables for those, but I would have to have an adapter to go from the last 5 pin pedal to the Blooper or Kernom. Just saw the Lex V2 from Strymon needs TRS also so maybe that Disaster Area would make sense to get.

[@Souldoubtrocks]

On the musicomlab mk vi you can run three stereo pedals. You relocate loop 12 before loop 10 and then you can use 10,11 and 12 as mono send stereo return each.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Yes!

[@t3r080]

Ohh... this comes handy since I just bought Boss ES-8 and will be using MIDI at least with HX Stomp.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Nice!

[@geo5772]

@vertex effects lol, Mason I’m beginning to think that watching all of the Vertex videos has developed a truly fine sense of synchronicity. Raining like hell up here in Healdsburg the other day and I’m thinking, “Damn I wish Mason would do a MIDI Integration and Cable presentation”…Little did I know, (and on the same day!) Once again, gracias Hermano…can’t believe you’re nailing an answer for every question I come up with. A comment: I really wish Brad would hire an intern studying SQL and really sort out and keyword his product line so searching the BTPA was easier/more accurate, your session with Redco reminded me about searching components and how you really need to come at searching electronics supply house with a thesaurus of keywords. Mouser = McMaster Carr in my opinion… Oh yeah, what’s Type A vs Type B, this variation came up with a Ramble FX Kismet…and what is the cylindrical dealie in the middle of the Strymon MIDI Exp Cable?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

These are different designations on the tip, ring, sleeve and what's connected to where. Disaster Area has a nice look up table for this and cables to meet each type.

[@geo5772]

@@VertexEffectsInc Land O' Goshen! He's done it again! Thanks, George

[@geo5772]

Except I'm still wondering about the "thing" in the middle of the Strymon cables...RF blocker?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@geo5772 send me a link?

[@geo5772]

@@VertexEffectsInc man I have left three replies and they’re all disappearing….grrr

[@jparty8599]

Greetings, I just started watching your streams and they have been very helpful. My question: I'm building a midi pedal board, hx stomp xl and most of the Jet pedals, though I have two non midi pedals (walrus Julianna, and tc electronics pitchfork). I don't know how to add them to my chain and get them to work with my midi controller (pirate bridge 6). I don't really want to get rid of them but use them if there is a way that I can still have them in the midi chain, and toggle them on command. I know that I won't be able to program presets on them since they are not midi, but to toggle is good enough with the controller. I know ypu talked about this in here i think but im still a little confused. Thank you very much :)

[@crifox16]

hey mason! not related to this vid but i have a question. say i run my time effects (all digital) in front of the amp and i have a boost before them to push the front end of the amp, wouldn't the boost risk to overload the pedals that come after it? or do they usually have enough range to accept a decent boost? does buffered vs true bypass have a difference or once a circuit is overloaded it's overloaded?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Typically these pedals can accept a lot of output hitting them without clipping. You can test it and see if you notice a difference.

[@M3dicinePYT]

Does anyone know if there is a box that has 1 MIDI in with multiple outs that in response to a midi signal will send independent MIDI signals out. The purpose would be to break the 16 channel cap. Essentially a point in the MIDI signal where the signal can split and have a new set of 16 channels per output?

[@luisalextorres]

any chance the conduit and the disaster area stuff could aslo work for amp switching relay commands? i know of the voodoolab control switcher

[@yurakolesnikov9725]

Hey Mason! Great video! Could you tell me, if I can mount Fix Pedalboards mounts on Temple Board? Are these compatible?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

You can drill them out I suppose, but I can't speak to how compatible they are. The holes make that style of board a bit less stable generally so drilling them out more could compromise them.

[@MAP448]

Do u have a running list of your favorite parts suppliers for diy'rs, like myself? To be able to access professional quality products, but at diy quantities?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Typically we list all of those materials in every description of every video.

[@adamandres23]

Hi, Mason, I've just bought the Boss ES-5 switcher and Strymon Mobius and Timeline. If I plug them via midi - Boss to Mobius to Timeline, am I able to control the change of only one of those Strymons (for example on boss preset 1 to set midi channel 1 one for Mobius and channel 2 for Timeline, so I activate only delay and not tremolo), or does activating (let's say) of preset 1 on Boss always have to create a change on both of them and activate the same bank preset on both (let's say bank 02A on both)? Also in which moment do I have to return the midi signal from strymons back to the Boss switcher...? Big thanks in advance, I'm a rookie in this...

[@VertexEffectsInc]

You can control them both on the same preset you just need to use different MIDI channels for each.

[@adamandres23]

@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks a lot!

[@chrishutchinson1150]

I love your videos! I’m running a Boss MS-3 as a midi controller for my Marshall JVM amp, Boss MD500, Boss DD500, and Boss RV 500. I am having problems with cc commands for the RV500. It changes patches correctly with program changes but using the cc27, cc28, and cc29 commands to turn effect A or B off dying patch changes doesn’t work. Effect turns on even when cc value set to 0. The Dd500 and MD500 midi commands work fine. Any suggestions?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Be sure you page all the way over to ensure that you have all the unused values at 0 and that you have your PC's set properly as well. Boss actually has a lot of good tutorials on this that are all visual.

[@Funkodelics]

Hi, Are there other options to the Morningstar ML5 Loop Switcher? I want to control other analog pedals with my Decibel Eleven Dr, but the ML5 Loop Switcher is expensive, thanks in advance

[@VertexEffectsInc]

They're good too for some applications.

[@3jfranch]

Wil the midi disaster area Extention work with a morning star midi control box to expand pedals. Midi is midi as far as the hardwiring. Correct?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

As a splitter, sure.

[@TheAlpineProject]

Hey Mason, do you know of a MIDI pedal loop switcher that can turn 2 left channels and 2 right channels into 1 left channel and 1 right channel, respectively? LIke two stereo effects mixed in parallel then brought back together. I think the ES-8 can do this but I think it might lose spillover ability if you do. It seems like it's that or the G3 unit but with either I may be better off with a stereo parallel mixer.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

MusicomLab Parallelizer

[@TheAlpineProject]

@@VertexEffectsInc thanks that may be what I go with. dpFX has one as well. RJM used to make a mixer that would've been perfect. Also that One Control MIDI Stereo Loop thing is awesome. Thanks a ton for mentioning that. Between that and the Disaster Area Smart Clock I think I can control my analog delay with a MIDI switcher that has tap tempo.

[@bonafideguitar]

Can midi pedals simply be turned on and off By midi controller?

[@sqlb3rn]

I got burned buying some midi cables that only had 3 wires internally, wasn't advertised that way, didn't even know they made them like that, and does not work with my RJM Mini Amp Gizmos. That ended up being a lot of time wasted troubleshooting why my rig wasn't working and contacting RJM support. I didn't know that was standard for guitar pedals though, I might try those 3 wire midi cables with my Digitech Whammy and Ditto Looper... they were the perfect length but just been sitting in a box collecting dust.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

For stuff that is doing guitar pedals, three leads is all that's needed. If it's used to switch other things like relays those pin assignments can be different than the MIDI standard and are really more accurately called 5-pin DIN cables.

[@Souldoubtrocks]

Question. I have my time based effects after my switcher and they run in series. I send a pc to my h9 which works great. Now I want it bypassed when I switch and click it to on. Is the command to put it in bypass another pc or is it a cc message with a value of 0?

[@Souldoubtrocks]

Oops I should have read through the comments. Sorry.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

CC for on/off functions for the pedal.

[@DMan-si4de]

Hey Mason. My Boost just arrived. I hooked up a Dunlop DVP3 as an expression pedal & I can still hear the guitar when the volume is all the way down. I looked inside the DVP3 & the internal volume pot is all the way down. Any ideas?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

D Man...it's not the boost it's the 10K expression pot. Some of the linear pots on EXP pedals I've found won't go all the way to 0 in the off position because of tolerance reasons and in digital pedals you controlling a parameter you won't hear anything. The only other issue could be the polarity if somehow it was inverted between the TIP and RING positions. Have you tried using it as a volume pedal instead with a insert cable?

[@DMan-si4de]

@@VertexEffectsInc Dude... it was totally the polarity! I forgot that I had changed it a while back for my HX Effects! Thanks! hahaha!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@DMan-si4de there you go :)

[@smellytele9629]

Not so much pedalboard related, but I'd love to be able to control my Bogner Goldfinger 45 from my midi controller. The GF foot switch has five buttons, I've looked for a midi breakout box but haven't found anything that is currently being made. How hard would it be to build something like that?

[@mattelder9147]

Disaster Area

[@smellytele9629]

@@mattelder9147 I'll give them a shout.

[@smellytele9629]

@@mattelder9147 I actually had checked with them a while back, but maybe they have something that will work now.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

RJM also makes some products for this as well and cables.

[@geo5772]

With respect Jeffreys comment “running midi from one to another pedal” could he be talking about soldering a daisy chain style connector? It would seem to me that could work, each pedal has its own MIDI channel number and the pedals not affected by the command would ignore not intended for them.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Daisy chains/splitters off of one cable won't work reliably. You really should be using a MIDI splitter.

[@Firstinversion899]

Pedal recommendations requested: I’m looking for a pedal that is pretty much exactly like the MXR Studio Compressor (or Bass Compressor - same thing), but with midi, preferably running at under 100 mA, and not larger than a standard boss pedal. It’s OK if it is boutique; I’m willing to spend some money for the right unit. Thanks!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Can't think of any off the top of my head...isn't this supposed to be 1176 ish?

[@Firstinversion899]

@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks Mason! Yes, likely 1176. I did find the Jackson audio Bloom V.2, which is Midi, but it is heavily voiced for guitar, including its EQ curves. I play fiddle and mandolin into a Grace design Bix, and I am guessing that the tight integration of this unit’s EQ would not be a great fit for my instruments. I do think an 1176 style pedal with midi implementation would allow me too incorporate different Compressor settings into my Morningstar MC8’s presets for different uses. For example: fiddle chop, fiddle bowing, fiddle strumming, & fiddle as bass through my EH Bass9 pedal - all of these want different dynamics, so using midi to create presets seems like the Way to go.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@Firstinversion899 there are some that do MIDI, but not 1176 and MIDI...are there really a 128 good sounds on an 1176 tough?

[@Firstinversion899]

@@VertexEffectsInc not 128, but 4-8 midi settings would make the difference. Still, I appreciate your point. The MXR studio compressor is a good pedal and I might be able to make it do the job. Again, thx!