Beta 300 Xtrainer Vs KTM 300 XCW Ride Review 1080p Version

Ride Review of the 2018 Beta 300 Xtrainer vs the KTM 300 xcw 2 stroke 1080P Version!

[@GladiusJon]

1080p Is so nice..

[@bikesnguns1616]

Gladius Jon if your phone can handle it, rip me

[@GladiusJon]

Mine does up to 720, but I watch most of the riding vids on Home Entertainment system. 360p Was Unwatchable on the flat screen.

[@bikesnguns1616]

Gladius Jon I can watch in 720 for a couple of minutes before my screen turns black.

[@bikesnguns1616]

Gladius Jon what's the price range of the Beta, can't seem to find it online.

[@GladiusJon]

$7,500 For the Xtrainer. $8,500 for the 300 RR.

[@brentking283]

I bought a 300 race edition, my daughter bought the xtrainer. I also own a KTM, I absolutely love my race edition in the tight tech riding. My KTM I love in the desert where high speed and Volkswagen size whoops live! That said I also love riding the xtrainer for practicing my pivot turns and just plain having fun. My thoughts are to buy a bike and ride! It's about 99% rider skill and 1% bike in every case I've been able to see.

[@GladiusJon]

Very nice! Like you said, I can definitely see the Xtrainer helping with pivot turn learning. The KTM seems too tall for me, I just keep looping hahaha

[@shawnkeene3370]

The number one reason why I bought a beta is because everyone has KTM. I hate doing what everyone else is doing. My Beta kicks ass!

[@rockyrobin24]

Yeah yeah 😂😂

[@Aacula]

The exact reason why I loved riding ktm in 06 when nobody else did

[@garthlundquist8316]

It will kick yours when the main bearings fail!

[@babar69110]

@@garthlundquist8316 I should have record all the bashing I had when I rode Triumph produced in the 2001... ( which had nothing to do with past production) :) BTW Ktm and all others have problems too... Good news, even out of warranty, Beta will take all costs.

[@babar69110]

A factory which put online freely all the maintenance books has my respect !

[@supergarball]

I really loved this video. You really kept it real. I’ve been with my TE150 now for 2 years amd absolutely love the bike. I’ve ridden my buddies 250, 300, Freerides, xTrainers etc and they’re all great bikes. My buddy who rode my 150 today (I swapped with his LTM 300) said my bike was more fun and had plenty of power for slow technical riding. That’s the kind of rider I am.

[@southwestenduro1714]

You can make a lot of adjustments by changing power valve springs to suit the type of power delivery you are looking for

[@cbull316]

Great little review definitely appreciate you taking the time to do that. The only real complaint was soft suspension it seems, but for me being about 140 lb I think it would be great. Couple years ago I had a beta RR race Edition and I felt it was way too stiff and way too hard even after changing the springs for my weight. I think the cross trainer with a softer suspension would be more suited for the type of riding I like to do. I'm sure the weight of the rider has a lot to do with how the suspension feels.

[@captainamerica9353]

Curtis Bull , were you surprised a race bike has stiff springs? I have a 2022 X Trainer on order and I hope it will be just right.

[@zmt3464]

Love the review; very thorough, but succinct. Provided what I needed to know. One issue: "heighth" is not a word. It's "height," damnit. All y'all are on notice.

[@sam-ww1wk]

2.5 years on an xtrainer. Super fun bike and great in the slow tech, and low seat is a blast for pivot turns, etc. Very reliable. Suspension, even modded out, blows nuts, and top speed is too low. The bike will make your brain rattle in your skull trying to keep up with your kyb and wp suspended buddies in the chunk causing long term brain damage. Will keep to still ride in the tech, and save for my growing son. Can't justify the $3K it'll take to upgrade suspension this late in the game. Trying to decide between an RR, TPI, or Sherco for riding over 20mph in anything but flat. All great bikes.

[@captainamerica9353]

sam, wow, with your riding ability, you'd better get an RR RE or pull some strings and get a Factory Works model.

[@2loulucas]

The xtrainer is kind of in a class by itself. The rr is more classified with the kato. I have the xt and I should have got the rr. Still not disappointed with it. Like you said about the front suspension is soft even with the upgrade.

[@TheDirtyBirchTrails]

Still a good comparo after 4 years !! I'm still running my 2018 Xtrainer but I have a KTM WP fork mounted on it. What a difference !!

[@mw5961]

What a great idea 👍Which KTM year and model fork fitted straight on the xtrainer ?

[@TheDirtyBirchTrails]

@@mw5961 Anything from 2005 and up. Just use the stock Beta stem, use the KTM upper and lower clamp and slide in the new forks. Mine are from a 2005 400EXC that I just rebuilt.

[@mw5961]

@@TheDirtyBirchTrails Ok thanks , so the beta wheel and axle , spacers and brake caliper just bolt up to the KTM forks

[@TheDirtyBirchTrails]

@@mw5961 You'll need the KTM caliper at the very least. It bolts to the fork. The Beta one dont fit.

[@blackr0se]

ANTHRAX AS THE OPENING SONG! instant like.

[@ow-my-achilles1106]

No one buys the Xtrainer for the suspension , so there really isn't a fair comparison between it and the 300 RR, or any other $8000+ bike. Most people will buy it because it is smaller, lower, and handles at low "trials like" speeds better than the RR. It's easier to dab a foot because of it's lower height too. With about $1000 in suspension work, it is much better at higher speeds, BUT a complete fork swap forks-triples-axle-caliper, would then put it into the price range of the more costly bikes. Again, most people buy it for the lower height and tight hard trail work. I really like my Xtrainer, and have done the improvements so I can ride it. I'll never race competitively, so it works for me.

[@STR8SHOOTER1000]

right on, I'm short I love to have lower seat height but I bought a 300xc because its a better bike all around. The X Train is a great bike but the KTM is in a class of its own. they are all good theese days much better than a 1980 xr80

[@adamnewsom6782]

EnduroSportCT I couldn’t agree with you more. I’m on the bottom end of the short person spectrum at 5’4”. Before I picked up my 2017, I owned a WR450 and spent a lot of money on suspension mods along with a bunch of other stuff too. Beta gives you the option to BYOB that really enhances the purchasing experience. I added the lowering kit and some other accessories that Beta offers for this bike, it was a great purchase.

[@MrRopcean]

Having ridden both, spot on review in my opinion. Both bikes bring an element of satisfaction depending on your wants as a rider. Kato is a beast, plain and simple and keeps a permanent grin on your face. Betas are a niche in the enduro world and coming for a piece of the North American market for bush bike riders like us, but have some considerable ground to make up. I rode a Beta and I had my old husky for sale immediately. Very happy with it and won’t need a new bike for a while. Great review and great message at the end about the investment made about what type of rider you are the path you take to figure that out.

[@maico125]

X Trainer is the modern Bultaco Alpina. Best deep woods bike in the word right now. Bonus ++ is that it is affordable.

[@mmaaddict78]

It's in the name, yet people fail to realize what it says. XTrainer, cross trainer. It's a bike made to build skills in trials like conditions as well as hard enduro type conditions. It's not a do everything bike and was not made for that purpose. It's not for fast hairscrables or motocross. Hell, it's not even meant for fast trail riding/fire roads. It's made for the slow stuff, and in that, it does well.

[@jsimsgt96]

I have a 19 300rr and it’s great. The tractor factor is indeed the best

[@rochellestanley9532]

Loving my 23’ Beta Xtrainer, great bike..

[@phillipcollins5268]

I love mine also

[@ozziejim8472]

Here in Australia the price difference is huge, thousands! You could do suspension mods on the beta and still be way in front.

[@randymarsh-Tegridy420]

Between the KTM and Beta, I’ve like the KTM 300 XCW and Husky 300TE much better. It feels like a more refined bike. I have had a GasGas EC300, Beta 300r Race Edition and the XT. I’ve ridden friends 300RR’s. Don’t get wrong the Beta and GasGas are great bikes that I think will add much needed competition to the 2 stroke off road market, which is obviously a win for all of us, when manufacturers build to compete. The things I really didn’t like on the Beta, plastics, brakes and a general lack of overall refinement. Same with the GasGas. Those Europeans spec handlebar controls. Things I like, the price and suspension, expect in the XT. But that is a give in. They came with oem fans installed. KTM is a leading Innovator and obviously a larger company that can invest more in R&D. But that comes at a much higher price. It’s painful to say the least, Especially so when you add the 6 days option.

[@itsthebike6672]

I think it would be useful to know your your inseam length. For example, there are two guys of equal height, one with long torso & short legs versus one with short torso and long legs. Great Video, keep em coming!

[@GladiusJon]

Good point! I will have the wife measure it and get back to you.

[@RidewithJD]

Orange Crush good question! JD

[@brennanjones1799]

There is a beta dealership 1 minute from me. My dad had a 2017 beta 300 rr race edition and it has $1000 wort of accessories. One of 3 in canada

[@dirtpirateracing1629]

I started out a couple years ago on a 95 honda cr250 and last year bought a 2013 Beta 250rr. It has the low down grunt and mid i like for racing hare scrambles. The Xtrainer is a great bike, but by the time you redo the suspension, your better off buying the rr. Its all in what you want to do with it though. Keep up the great vids man!

[@GladiusJon]

Thanks bro! I feel the same about the xtrainer.

[@adskiygamer]

Bought my XT '22 just because of it's low weight (having a spine injury). And wow I do love it. Has enough of power (with some tuning and adjustments), handles much better than other "big" bikes. I am tall and I can really do things on that bike in tight situations! It also leaves me fresh enough after long riding day comparing to my buddies =) It you are not into fast racing or you are somewhat old or small, then Xtrainer is definitely worth trying.

[@ScaleCrawling]

What if you're 6'3" and 300 lbs, and haven't sat on a bike in decades? Is the X-Trainer still the way to go, or is the regular 300 a better bet? I'm not an excellent rider and will likely be a bit intimidated at first. Never did wheelies or jumping, and any large obstacles and steep inclines were always scary. Looking to do some single trail for fun and exercise. Not sure if there will be any difficult parts, but if there are I think good low RPM torque would be beneficial. Since I did have dirt bike once, clutch work and balance etx, i.e. the basics, shouldn't be a problem though.

[@markkus1134]

And I believe the Beta is oil injected nice feature!

[@brianrichard1768]

Had a ktm 200 exc and it didn't like the faster stuff either, needed a steering stabilizer

[@dakotanewman4443]

You should try messing with the power valve. It makes a huge difference in power delivery.

[@GladiusJon]

That's a good idea, great video topic for the future.

[@ExpatonTwoWheels]

Great video. I would love to own either of those bikes. Unfortunately, where I am, I can't get them street legal and at the moment I ride to the trails. I ride a supermoto with TKC80s. It's compromised, but I enjoy it

[@michaelsteven1090]

Dude, you like every bike you ride..I would own everything If i followed you.

[@i_dodge_trees]

Don't lie, you like all motorcycles. We all like all motorcycles.

[@leom5028]

I dont have a bike, i would be happy with any bike.

[@HippoDrones]

If the main thing that wins is colour, then they must be bloomin close! :-)

[@badgumby9544]

Uh. $7700 for the 2020 XTrainer. $10K or more for the KTM 300. Newer Euro dirtbikes are ridiculously priced in my opinion. I like my $1300 95 KDX200. 90% rider, 10% motorcycle.

[@raizt1596]

The KDX is a unicorn that hasnt been repeated. An amazing bike way ahead of its time, but the new beta Xtrainer with a suspension mod is better in every way except price.

[@Braselton21]

That intro song gave me Tony Hawk Pro Skater Flashbacks

[@ozbiker5311]

Man try the Beta 300 rr you will love it I can say hand down I rode the 2020 ktm 300 and the Beta 300 rr me being 5' 10" like yourself I hated the ktm 's, seat height and the 300rr is lower and the power is insane and suspension I think its better than KTM do yourself a favour and test ride the 300rr power is like if not better than the KTM

[@rassieerasmus2564]

Just asking does your ktm have a rekluse?

[@GladiusJon]

Not yet. Soon!

[@jackw6045]

More bikes should be made for smaller gentlemen!!! Great review of both!!!

[@chuckdiego719]

Jack W I’m 5’3 agreed. I got the 390 RRS 2 in. Lower. It is good for me. Wish I would have gone 3 inches lower.

[@jackw6045]

Chuck Diego thanks mate

[@freddeford5543]

I think each particular dealer decides which parts to carry. Most every shop will stock only the things they can sell.

[@HippoDrones]

nice vid :-)

[@sanderjavant-36]

I love my Beta Xtrainer and my GASGAS EC 300.

[@Keegan_Lynch]

I have kind of an aggressive riding style like you but there’s a good deal on a beta and I’m really pushing for it but the suspension thing has me worried

[@BrianLampright913]

Keegan Lynch I’ve ridden both of these bikes I own the 300XC and my dad has an xtrainer. Suspension on xtrainer is very soft if you ride desert with any speed you’ll be taking dirt naps. It has zero power on the top end it’s all bottom. It’s the perfect bike for non-aggressive riders.

[@craigbielsky115]

@@BrianLampright913 ITS NOT A DESERT BIKE DUH..... ITS A DEEP WOODS BIKE FOR TECHNICAL RIDING AT AN INTERMEDIATE LEVEL....YOU WANT A FULL ON RACE BIKE THEN WE TALKING 300RR BETA ...

[@captainamerica9353]

Keegan Lynch, then get a 300 RR. Problem solved.

[@mobgma]

WHAT CAMERA DO YOU USE?

[@GladiusJon]

GoPro hero 4 silver.

[@tonychambers4302]

Gladius Jon hi where do mount your camera

[@6226superhurricane]

so the difference between the beta xtrainer and the beta rr is the xtrainer is lower,has softer suspension and and a tamer power delivery. so by the sound of it if you compared apples to apples the beta would be just as good or better. and then you have the beta rr racing.

[@captainamerica9353]

Right, a better comparison would be a 300RR vs a KTM.

[@davidgeerling9871]

@Gladius Jon...Hi...Sine you are a motorcycle tech, Is the 250 sx, quicker on trails ( Not less than 20mph, lugging down, low rpm type trails ), than the 300 xc/xcw/exc, If all 4 had the red spring inserted, cuz the power band hits harder on the sx ?? I hear it does ?? Also, if it hits harder, cuz I weigh 235, would it be better, cuz the extra hit will accelerate it quicker ?? But, I guess it has a few less, ( 4 ?) horsepower than all of the 300 bikes, so maybe they're 90-95 ish% the same, so kind of like a wash ?? Also, since it's a 250 motocross bike, is that why it hits harder, if it does ?? I have learned a lot from your Very, Informational videos...Thank You Gladius Jon, for any and all Info. you address :) Much appreciated :)

[@GladiusJon]

For Lugged down, low RPM. The 300 has more Way more Torque. You can Watch how Low down the Grunt is in this video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bma2h3meopWbeZo The First hill I started in 3rd from 2mph. And it still pulled me up the hill. The 250 Revs more quicker, which makes the Hit feel stronger. But when you Put the Red spring in the 300. You get about the same hit. Honestly, if you are not doing MX. I would get the 300 hands down.

[@davidgeerling9871]

@@GladiusJon OK...Thanks, especially for addressing the RED spring...I typed out a few questions for you, but I read your reply again and realized, I was pretty much asking U the same thing, so I will watch the Link U sent, cuz that looks interesting...I'll most likely go w/ the 300 XC -W because of the front and rear lights, in case it gets dark on me and an electric start, of course if the kick start fails for some odd reason...So, Thanks again Gladius Jon :):) Take it E-Z and be safe out there !!

[@mboyer68]

Most bikes are shipped in crates and assembled at the dealer. Can't blame the factory for stripped axle nut!

[@rtbt8185]

The rear wheel is installed b4 it is crated and shipped. Only front wheel is installed by dealer

[@utahdesertrider1806]

No problem getting parts..

[@throttlebuff]

Dirtbike says about the same thingd you did. Nice job. Sticker price is nice $7499 new

[@throttlebuff]

Seat height is why i am even considering this

[@throttlebuff]

Would steering stabilizer fix the front?

[@quintonfoust7794]

you're a short guy....... lol. I'm a whopping 5'7" and just impulse bought a 2023 kx450x after being off dirt bikes for 6 years. I don't regret the purchase, I absolutely love the 450x and definitely plan to keep it for more open and dune riding. I'm definitely considering an xtrainer for my next purchase after my 450x is paid off more for enduro type technical riding.

[@justaghost3285]

Bro I got a 23 Xtrainer, it is amazing, you wont regret it. supensions are great if u do hard Enduro and weight around 70 kg

[@jaybird99100]

The Keihin 36mm will give that bike quite a bit more low end torque, noticeably more. The Mikuni 38mm or even the 38mm Keihin on the KTM doesn't give the same results as the 36mm. If you put the 36mm Keihin on the KTM I bet you'd get that same low end grunt and torque that you refer to on the Beta.

[@craigbielsky115]

NOT SURE ABOUT ALL THAT BUT MAYBE ......PORTING IN THE CYL IS KEY FACTOR AND THE EX VALVE TUNING SO IDK ......

[@rokbottom999]

What's the top end speed on them 2 ?...great vid,thx

[@GladiusJon]

My KTM has a Top speed of around 90 mph. But its geared high in 5th and 6th. Im unsure what the Betas top speed is.

[@rokbottom999]

thx bro. reason why I ask, thinking about ordering one and making it street legal (TX)

[@ow-my-achilles1106]

@@GladiusJon About 70 mph on the road, flat terrain. With stock gearing. It peaks out.

[@TR--ul6ve]

@@GladiusJon I topped my 300rr out at 90mph

[@craigbielsky115]

@@TR--ul6ve MY 2021 500RR-S WILL DO 100 EASY I DID 91 IN 5TH GEAR AND SHIFTED TO 6TH AND LET OFF

[@claudioteixeira5917]

The xtrainer 300 2020 is blue!

[@fotikaratasakis9248]

I like observing spiders, but i HATE spiders while riding. I had 3 different bananna spiders crawling on me at croom last week, and they were all the size of my palm!

[@GladiusJon]

That's insane haha I would have a stroke!

[@jamesderoc6717]

i can handle spiders im afraid of ticks . .fucking disease vectors

[@Zen-525]

i want the beta. need to sell my bike.

[@OKFrax-ys2op]

A trail bike in the 180 pound range, sitting with both feet on the ground. Don’t need to jump mx stuff, make it easier to pickup after that wipeout, sure air cooled, stripped down like a Hodaka 🤔

[@nev357]

I prefer orange.

[@crazybob1954mo]

The Xtrainer only has 10.6" Travel, But still has good ground clearance due to a lower frame build height. I'm REALLY Considering getting one.!!!!

[@utahdesertrider1806]

Bob Duvall the reviews kinda don’t do the Xtrainer justice. I rode one and it really excels in the tight stuff

[@jamesderoc6717]

it has 12 .5 , same as rr despite the smaller frame. my crf250l had about 10 . .hit everything

[@Gdad-20]

Listen up guys. If bikes made champions. KTM would make every rider in the world, factory sponsored riders! Bikes don't make champions. Champions make bikes.

[@allenmbwilo3416]

I hate snakes and don't care about spiders. In Tanzania where I grew up there are tons of spiders that aren't harmful. But every single snake is deadly over there. So, when I see a snake here in USA, big or small, and someone is playing with it, the hair on my skin starts to move on me. I freaking hate it. But even giant spiders here in USA don't scare me, maybe they will one day after one takes a piece of me lol

[@STR8SHOOTER1000]

shorter rider 5'10",Gimme a break I'm 5'3", 5'4" in boots I would give my left testi for 7 more inches. I ride a 2015 KTM 300XC, Thinking of getting a new XTrainer for the seat height

[@h_alhashmi]

Did you bought the beat x

[@ngzcaz]

Would help of you define " wobbly at high speed " Exactly what is thaT ? 35 45 55 MORE ?

[@craigbielsky115]

HIGH SPEED IS NOT 35 OR 45 THATS JUST COMMON SENSE ....LOL BIKE DOES 70 ISH SOOOOO----HIGH SPEED IS LETS SAY 60-70....? THEY ALL BENEFIT FROM STEERING STABILIZERS

[@markgunnison]

I hate spiders too

[@GladiusJon]

Fuck them things! hehe

[@A1soldiersaint]

It's amazing that KTM has not produced a more compact bike like the x trainer. I don't want any compromises like having to live with bad suspension, or a bike that doesn't have a full frame like the freeride.

[@pcvintage]

KTM's answer to an enduroized trials bike is their Freeride.

[@A1soldiersaint]

​@@pcvintage , yep I know, but the free ride sales in North America were dismal for a reason. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind having one, but it looks like there are better options. I mean, a yz125 weighs 197 lbs, and a KTM 150sx weighs 192 why the heck can't they make a smaller frame, shorter travel enduro/woods bike under 200 lbs??

[@gearhigher2027]

@Suzukisan Why do you believe the KTM Freeride is crap?

[@A1soldiersaint]

@@aaronolmstead8664 Dude, can you not read?

[@oldfellafpv7770]

im the same im orange loyal to

[@petergrabsch3736]

Italians & quality control! hmm still not convinced especially when you tell me an axle shaft thread stripped from factory when the worker should've made sure it was sorted! I think that is a big issue personally & a real consideration when parting with new bike money. I've heard many other quality control issues with Beta especially front forks coatings failing prematurely very ordinary if this happens to you!

[@TR--ul6ve]

A friend bought a new Husky TE300, it had no front axle nut... every brand has it's occasional mistake. Beta makes a great bike, they all do.

[@babar69110]

betas axle shaft and others parts are assembled by the retailer

[@davidbeauvais1364]

5’10 is not a somewhat shorter rider…. Jarvis is around 5’6

[@claudioteixeira5917]

O

[@crystalstanborough4053]

easy to lower an inch....

[@mixalis6168]

Why, im 5.7 and don't need to lower ~~

[@crazybob1954mo]

Lower an inch???? Which are you Talking about?? EXPLAIN Yourself.!!!

[@tonner987]

Im 5’8” I race my 250 exc (amateur), height is ok!!!

[@mathews0618]

My buddy has a 2020 betra trainer. Its dull. My yz250 with a 13oz fww and -2 on the rear is an animal compared to it. My 2020 ktm 300 xc is also a rocket compared to his beta. Thats my impression of the motor

[@SHx589]

Beta uses the same KTM engine.

[@ManicMotoAZ]

Lol what? Beta engines have been made in house since 2010

[@americandirtrider7662]

They used to when they first got into the enduro market, but now they have their own engine design.

[@jpdevilliers2783]

Beta is better you are biased . Its the ride height smaller frame works great nimble feel you can mive faster pull it out of dirt easier.

[@GladiusJon]

The wiring harness caught fire on the beta at 30 hours. But sure, the Italian bone fire is better 👍🏻

[@jpdevilliers2783]

​@@GladiusJon mine didnt . So ask youself isolated incident and wiring harness doesnt burn everywhere where did it start what was the cause buddy's gsxr also burnt out fuse box once . Its isolated like walking down the street and begin killed by a spaceX satellite. Ktm are cool bikes love to have a 200.beta cost like sherco are really good. And they win races for the guy that looks at that i strip and maintain anypart on the bike when i hear bullshit i have to call it,just like this the guy is biased he even mentioned it. I am a fan of any bike some just give more trouble like a landrover vurses toyota

[@rickriede2166]

Good quality video but rather than giving an other entirely subjective opinion on the two bikes,Bust out the stopwatch and lay down some lap times,wet and dry.You've got the means and it looks like the area to do it.Separate your videos from all the other fluff out there by providing something tangible and the subscribers will come.

[@GladiusJon]

I am Forwarding your comment to Jack, lets see if He will let me do a time trial on it.

[@throttlebuff]

Time? Who cares. The video starts by saying its for weekend warriors. Adventure rides and play rides. I don't think either of these bikes would be the best for racing harescrambles, closed course, or sprints. Both bikes went for low end power so you loose top power

[@rickriede2166]

@@throttlebuffThe point I was trying to make ,and I should have been more clear. Times can be revealing,In such.How often the rider stalls the bike or struggles to find traction in slick conditions.A bike doesn't necessarily have to be the fastest bike that can be exploited by a pro but rather the fastest,or more accurately,the most suitable for getting a novice rider to turn his fastest lap times.For some riders a wr 250 will be faster than a xc 300.For others not.

[@throttlebuff]

@@rickriede2166 i dig

[@babar69110]

in case of the xtrainer, it's not about time, it's about success to be on top of an hard climb without 5456454 foot down pedaling and 14540 stopped engine ;)

[@babar69110]

always strange, not to say funny : a bike made for techical is critized not to be good on fast trails, but a fast trail bike, even if it acts good won 't never be critized not to be better in this slow ride case.... I understand KTm is more polyvalent, but there is always a fun ratio to take in consideration. Lots of guys suffer with powerful and not so manoeuvrable bikes... Beta factory is taking the niche market of pleasure, not the ready to race one. Paradox is that they have great results in competition... Their marketing and R&D is very clever, helped by the trial background culture...It makes me think of Adv ride with big bikes , the " yes i did it with my GS". satisfaction, versus pleasure to ride with right tool. We can see all the process in a opposite way : xtrainer is a great polyvalent evolution of a trial bike...

[@GladiusJon]

sky watcher honestly it really does not matter anyway. Because nether you or I or anyone we know will ever be so good at riding that it makes a difference... It’s all based on personal preference, and everyone is different.

[@babar69110]

Of course, just point the " always more " of western civilisation... Valorization factor and social representation still play a lot... ;) Everytime people make a report of smaller CC, by example, , it comes the " for beginners it's perfect, etc...." I'm gonna buy a xtrainer, but i know ( and don't care) that buddies will make some comments in this way. I ride like shit my xr650r, but of course they are impressed by the BRP... funny world :) Not your case, your open comments were interesting