Better BASS WITHOUT miniDSP? | Subwoofer and bass OPTIMIZATION GUIDE (basic)

[@HomeTheaterGamer]

Thanks to SVS for sending me the PB2000 Pro to help make these videos (plus some other ones as well, so stay tuned). And sorry for the somewhat funky audio in this one. My laptop’s fan kicked into overdrive during recording. Might be time to repaste it!

[@Dingus00769]

I just wanted to let you know that your channel is criminally underrated, you deserve many more subscribers. You are appreciated.

[@bmwberto8055]

Dude you are so underrated. I don't know how you don't have a couple hundred thousand subscribers, because your content is on point, by far the best I've seen on this subject matter. Keep doing what you do they will come. Everyone needs to spread the word I think we've found the chosen one. The force is strong with this one

[@trishpipkins]

Your comment made my day. I've been telling him he has a real gift for teaching. (It's how we met, actually. He trained me at work. Haha) I'm so glad you liked the video. I do think his Midi-chlorian count is off the charts. 😁

[@bmwberto8055]

Thank you so much, I couldn't agree more. It's so nice that you guys actually take the time to reply. Thanks for supporting him and allowing him the time to do this. It will pay off in the end

[@shawnmia2190]

I don't have a mini dsp yet, so I followed your video. It took a while to play around with the sub settings and take measurements with REW, but it was totally worth it. I ended up getting my sub curve pretty flat. I couldn't believe how much bass I had been missing out on.

[@dannyr2272]

What equipment did u use ?

[@brnmaull]

This was an absolute awsome video! I really understood everything that you were doing which is great because I'm a little slow. Thanks for making this video man. Keep up the great work

[@HomeTheaterGamer]

Thanks man. I truly appreciate it.

[@johncameron4172]

I’m pretty new at this too. I simply cannot spend several hundred dollars on a good surround sound system right now. So, my wife got me an old Pioneer VSX-D514 and a set 5 Sony surround sound speakers off EBay for $50 w/o a subwoofer. My Pioneer is a 5.1 speaker surround system requiring a powered subwoofer. I had a Pyramid 12” sub, built a box and ordered a subwoofer amplifier board off Amazon($16). I noticed a gap in the very lows from the 12” sub. and the highs from the 3” speakers in my Sony surround speakers especially listening to music. By watching KZbin videos like this guy I have learned a ton. Like how to build, port and tune a speaker box. I ordered two 6.5” Pyramid mid subwoofers and ordered another amp board, a splitter cable to share headphone and an extension for the cable. I got this because my amp boards use a 3.5mm audio input.

[@danmaier2077]

Hello, Greetings from Austria (Europe)! Another great video of you, super well explained, I can't wait for your next video. You are the best, thanks for your time!

[@HomeTheaterGamer]

Thanks for the comment. So glad you enjoyed the video.

[@delali2631]

Loving the crossover dance ! 😆

[@ProjectSOG]

@home theater gamer Thank you so much for making this content. I followed your REW guideline videos and I've seen this one over 10 times. Dissecting and really trying to follow along and understand step by step. After implementing all the steps, my home theater sounds like I upgraded equipment. That's how drastic the change has been. I sent Ed Mullen the graph of the bass alignment with the fronts and he said it's rare to have an in-room response like that and that it couldn't get any better than that. Anyways, I thought I would let you know that your content makes a huge impact. Because of you I can now enjoy my home theater and never have to mess around with my settings again, enjoy it and know that it can't get better than what I have for my room. Thanks again!

[@Diwakarvlg]

I followed your video for my 7.2.4 Dali opticon 6 and Vokal and LCR with alteco heights paradigm 2 seismic 110 subs. Marantz sr8012 AVR. I don't have to turn on audessey any more. Remarkable improvement of sonic sound image. Thank you

[@ZeonStar77]

Great guide and I appreciate all your work put into these videos. I’m struggling to understand something though. (I’m new to both REW AND having Dual Subs so bear that in mind.) I don’t quite get the point of level matching the subs at the beginning if you’re going to end up running room correction anyway which handles all that. I feel like I’m missing something…

[@SirChiefUK]

Hi Brad, thank you for the tutorial. I have no DSP, can you please clarify when you mentioned turn off each sub when measuring, did you mean physically turning off the sub by the switch?

[@ElitistReviews]

god damn, this was the most useful video I ever saw for REW. thanks Brad.. I will definitely try it out in my room, just for my new Polk setup.

[@HomeTheaterGamer]

Thank you so much! Let me know how it works out for you!

[@MrSuperman258401]

Check out home theater Guru's on youtube for some some great informative videos and his FB page too , should help you Elitist Reviews

[@ElitistReviews]

@@MrSuperman258401 thanks, I will definitely check it out.

[@jim586]

Hi Brad. Great video. I know it’s 3 years old now but my question is. I have an NAD 578 v3 receiver with Dirac live. When Dirac is enabled you cannot adjust any distances or anything else. Can this still be done? If you do it before Dirac won’t Dirac just alter it back? All the best.

[@andrewmcmillan8110]

Great content! Subbed

[@ProjectSOG]

Awesome video! One quick question, I have the PB2000 Pros, where should I have the subwoofer volume on the subs app?

[@av8rbri473]

Only question I have is: did the optimized measurements = better sound to your ears??? Thx

[@HomeTheaterGamer]

Absolutely. Especially across multiple seats.

[@scottnagle6531]

How did you increase sub volume to reach 77-78db? You were flat (0) in the AVR so did you use the svs app to increase the subs volume?

[@rushgush]

i just put my sub in one spot, no eq, 2 channel. no rew. sounds great to my ears. 😅

[@MrNinjaHub]

Hi Brad Thanks for the great videos. Im new to Rew but one thing I’m unsure of is how to test 2 subs with independent outputs. Could you refer me to one of your videos which covers this or some additional information please? Thanks

[@JoshM7]

Very nice guide! I myself found running my receiver highpass at 150-200Hz to work best in my room. Wish I had DSP on my speakers but I'm not sure how to since my receiver is using HDMI.

[@Confileus]

9:17 - By adjusting phase on each subwoofer, that's means in other word that you adjust delays to time align two subwoofers together?

[@pooter4e552]

Question! Shouldn't Z Weight be selected, since it's a USB mic? And C Weight if you are using something like Radio Shack. I read conflicting information.

[@TylerStout]

Do you think there's any changes you could make in the audyssey editor app that would improve things further. Like manually adjusting the target curve on a speaker channel to flatten it out?

[@harrytej]

Was thinking the exact same

[@fotophotographer]

This video answered my question about how to set distances for two ind. subs! Hazahh! :D

[@PixelGolf]

Love the videos, it makes all of this easier to comprehend! I did your steps to level match my two subs(PB1000-Pro) by setting my left speaker at 75db and both subs to 78db per your instructions. I then did the Phase and Polarity measurements for the smoothest response, which in my case was 0 and Positive. I also used SVS Parametric EQ to smooth it out further… So now I’m on the run Audyssey step, however since I have a newer Denon X3800h, it has me adjust the gain on each sub individually to land in their green zone before moving forward with calibration… Wouldn’t this undo the level matching thing, or was that just to initially calibrate the subs for phase and polarity optimization so it won’t matter that the gains will be altered before calibration? Sorry, I’m a noob😂 just bought the equipment you use from your links and am eager to learn!

[@PixelGolf]

Anyone know the answer to this?

[@FuSoYa89]

Great video. The question I have is leveling each sub to 77 dB. When both are on, isn't it overkill on the volume? Should they combine to be 77 or it doesn't matter/personal preference?

[@drewsmith1566]

Was wondering why my results didnt change with running sweeps when changing the distances i needed to back out of the screen after changing the distances!.

[@HomeTheaterGamer]

Yeah. That’s always bothered me about Denon and Marantz, but it’s more of a nuisance than anything else. First world problems and all of that haha.

[@PixelGolf]

Wait, I see on your older Denon you only have sun show up as one for running dual. My newer Denon X3800h does both of my subs separately. Do I need to be doing this?

[@jlocstl231]

Great video man. Hey I have a question. My only outputs that work are the front left and right and subs. Center and the rest no sound when I try to measure. Receiver is a Yamaha rx-a3060. It's set to straight mode.

[@decaf77]

@hometheatergamer Hey Brad, just wondering would you recommend calibrating the subs with REW first or running Audyssey first? Thanks as always for the help 😊

[@mmatthews90]

Thank you so much for the video. I do have a question in how this video works specifically with Dirac. After running Dirac the AVR locks the distance/delay setting, thus preventing from making any post adjustments. Do you think that Dirac would set the delay correct so that post adjustment is unnecessary? Thank you in advance!

[@TeeCamp10]

I have a question, those that have subs like the SVS Pro series with the built in DSP, can we use REW as a tool to make adjustment with the PEQ settings in the amp on the subs? So if we have peaks and valleys in certain areas, we use REW to show the result and make the adjustment on the SVS app?

[@jtjumpshot]

I would love an answer for this as well since I'm shopping for a single sub and will not be getting a minidsp.

[@bric7244]

Should I get the umik 2 now that it just came out or stick with the 1 still ?! Great video man I m loving them all ,super informative 👍

[@1165mac]

Maybe I’m just showing my ignorance on this topic, but is all this work worth getting the sound correct for only the sweet listening spot? If you move 10, 20, or 30 degrees off axis you’re going to hear something different regardless of how great the main listening spot sounds. There are times when multiple people are watching a movie at my house and no one is sitting in this exact spot. Therefore, is there a way to do all these calibrations to get generally good consistent sound over a wider viewing area, perhaps up to 40 degrees off axis?

[@HiFinest343]

Great video - I was actually emailing with Ed Mullen back and forth, about exactly this! Couple comments/questions, and looking for feedback. 1.) thanks for pointing out that BOTH subs need to be adjusted together by the distance amounts - the other day I was ONLY adjusting the second sub, and it made zero difference on the FR. 2.) did you have DEQ off post-Audyssey? There appears to be a slight house curve in your measurements, so wondering if DEQ was on? 3.) do you have any recommendations for applying a house curve without MiniDSP, but with the Audyssey App AND subwoofer PEQ on the plate amp? Awesome video - would love to see a part 2 with the inclusion of the MultiEQ editor app, and further optimizing!! Great job!!!

[@HomeTheaterGamer]

Thanks for the comment! Ed Mullen is an awesome guy and has what seems to be endless information regarding home theater and audio. To answer your questions: I actually didn’t run Audyssey when doing this video which I completely failed to mention. I should have been more clear on that. There’s actually no EQ on the subs at all, which you can see by referencing the frequency response before I talk about running Audyssey and when I start the next step. The process for time aligning subs to mains remains the same though, so either way it won’t change much. You just may have different distance settings if you run Audyssey as any type of EQ can have an effect on alignment. In regards to using the MultiEQ Editor App and the subs PEQ to optimize things further and to apply a house curve, those videos are in the works (or a single video, haven’t decided yet). I have a few time sensitive review videos I need to get done first, but I’ll rest assured you’ll do some more advanced sub optimization videos soon.

[@HiFinest343]

@@HomeTheaterGamer very much looking forward to your further instructions. This has all been very handy so far. I have dual SB16’s, and a great B&W mishmash of a 5.2.2 setup - and while I’ll never really stop tinkering, I haven’t yet found a reason to with achieving just the right performance. I would also love to hear your feedback on the following instruction: www.stereonet.asia/forums/topic/147529-audyssey-house-curve-revisited/ I haven’t tried this, but there’s some pretty insightful tips on applying Audyssey app curve editor adjustments, and ensuring they actually show up. I noticed via REW measurements that my aggressive house curve via the app didn’t actually seem to enlist in the processor after uploading - which was disappointing. Can’t wait for your future vids on this because surely I was doing something wrong!! Keep it up! Btw - are you available via email for q/a?

[@rynev3392]

Is it possible to run a full range signal to let’s say a 5.1 system and integrate a subwoofer in line to each of the speakers level matching them. Wouldn’t it give you a sense of location for something like an explosion in a action movie?

[@HomeTheaterGamer]

That’s a very interesting idea, but technically speaking, it’s not possible. Anything below about 120Hz, which is where most subs do their work, is not localizable. You wouldn’t be able to tell where it’s coming from. It is possible that vibrations within the sub housing of a sub or the adjoining walls vibrating could cause a sense of localization, but for the most part all bass under a certain frequency would not be localized due to our own ears.

[@siddharthkallam6118]

Nice video, I would like to have some inputs. While doing gain matching on SUBS do we need to keep the subs at same place at one of time or can it be place at different locations while performing the gain match.

[@Shadow-dn1kz]

Hi, I can’t find my avr on output device? I am using yamaha RXA3040. My outpu device only have primary sound, internal AUX Jack, Speaker/headphone, speakers (7,1 surround sound). Please help me

[@Jens3304]

Which sound mode should I use? Multi Ch stereo? I'm new to this and wondered if it's normal that when doing mesurements and lvl matching that all speakers are playing?

[@BoredSilly666]

Hi, what do I do if Audyssey sets the subwoofer distance wrong as it is prone to getting one of the distances incorrect? Do I leave it or adjust it manually to the correct distance? Thanks

[@avsolutions212]

How to do sub alignment and distance is there any formula for this? Without rew

[@jonathanyoung7050]

I just got REW with UMIK1. How do I get JAVA? I opened preferences & don’t show JAVA. I am using a MAC book Pro & 2X PB2Kpro. Also what volume setting did you set PB2KPro at?

[@shan5]

Hi. I have few questions for you. Is it the mic. taking all the measurements?. I tried REW last night, the Nvidia didn't show up in the list of preferences, may be I need to change my laptop sound settings, I haven't tried that. Second question is, pink noise generated from REW, I couldn't hear it from speakers until I change the HDMI where the laptop was connected and the laptop screen displayed on the TV, the TV is connected to eArc of Denon S750H. Can you please guide me....thank you

[@bigk7788]

Would it be best to move the subs around to different locations to find the best spot curve in REW, then level match the subs, then run auto eq on my receiver?

[@HomeTheaterGamer]

Ideally that would be a great place to start, but depending on room, sub size, amount of subs, etc., sometimes that just isn’t possible.

[@bigk7788]

@@HomeTheaterGamer right. I was just trying to figure out if there was technically a best practice "order" to go in.

[@kerryowens9493]

How are you getting the Center and Surrounds to show frequencies down to 20Hz? Also, if you are crossing over at 80Hz and above, aren't frequencies below the crossover point directed to the subwoofer/LFE channel? I am either missing something or.........

[@HomeTheaterGamer]

The center and surround results also include the subwoofer, so any frequencies below the crossover point is handled by the subwoofer. And yes, you’re correct that anything below the crossover point is directed to the subwoofer/LFE channel, even if set to something lower than 80Hz.

[@kiptanoi4422]

One question about subs and mainspeakers.... If I have speakers that are good in lower frequency, lets say that I am happy about have my right and left speakers frequency down to 60 Hz And put my AVR crossover to 60 Hz. How do I do with my sub then? Do turn down the frequency to 60 Hz on my sub, so it will play 20-60 Hz? Or do I put the frequency to max (250 Hz) on the sub?

[@HomeTheaterGamer]

That’s an excellent question. Typically with this type of setup where you have the subwoofer plugged into the “subwoofer out” on the receiver, you’ll want the crossover frequency on the subwoofer itself set to the max (sounds like 250Hz in your case). The reason for this is because your receiver is handling all the bass routing between your speakers and subs, often what many folks call bass management.

[@kiptanoi4422]

@@HomeTheaterGamer So, if I use a minidsp, there is no reason to use range below my crossover in REW when I am doing a room curve for my mains and no reason for me to measure my sub/s higher than my crossover settings in my AVR?

[@HomeTheaterGamer]

I would still recommend measuring slightly above and below your crossover point, mainly because crossovers aren’t hard cutoffs at a specific frequency. They roll off the sound instead, so it’s always good idea to see exactly what’s going on.

[@sjsphotog]

great stuff. sadly can only do all of this hours of tweaking when / IF the wife is away at work :)

[@jjlnguess7354]

I have the Dayton UMM-6 mic. Is that a good one to use? Thanks.

[@jovidec6274]

Yes, it is.

[@PixelGolf]

When you are level matching your subs to 78db, are you adjusting the gain on the subs or the level in the receiver..? You don’t really say. I have two SVS PB1000 pros I am trying to set following this video.

[@HomeTheaterGamer]

Sorry... On the subs themselves.

[@FatFolksProductions]

@@HomeTheaterGamer I have the same question. For the gain on the amp (Crown XLS 2502) Would I start at the 12 o' clock position or higher...lower? Also On my AVR (Pioneer Elite SC-LX904) I don't have an option to turn off Room Correction. (MCACC) Would I Select Pure Direct sound mode? Thanks in advance for any advice!

[@danmaier2077]

Hello, I looked at parts 1, 2, 3, 4 ten times and did everything as you described. I succeeded in everything. Thank you for your great tutorial! Only one thing is not clear to me, if in the Audysey app under MultEQ filter frequency range and turn off the subwoofer limit, the subwoofer does not get enough signal and it does not turn on at minimum volume! What can I do there ??

[@HomeTheaterGamer]

That’s interesting. Is your sub level within the receiver set to 0dB? When you say minimum volume, what volume do you mean? I rarely listen at volumes below -20dB, so it may be an issue I never noticed.

[@danmaier2077]

@@HomeTheaterGamer Volumen at Night is -63db !!

[@danmaier2077]

@@HomeTheaterGamer Sub level do you mean the gain knob on the subwoofer? It is in the middle and the AVR is on "0"

[@danmaier2077]

@@HomeTheaterGamer So, for me it is set like this: On Marantz, Audysey (reference on), dynamics EQ off, volume EQ on, in the Audysey app MultEQ filter frequency range SUB (off) all other speakers are at 389Hz (limit ). Both SUB Gain Knob is set to middle, everything else I have set in the MiniDsp. When I watch a film on the Marantz at -63db at night, the SUB get too little signal from the AVR and they don't switch on. If I go to -40db, -30db on the AVR then there is no problem, the SUB switch on. Then if I switch on the dynamic EQ and limit the SUB to 250Hz again in the Audysey app, the SUBS switches on even at -63db volume on Marantz, but the bass is way too powerful and not so smooth anymore. Because the whole thing is boosted. I also tried dynamic EQ off, sub on at 250Hz (Audysey app) at -63db volume on AVR (SUB gets too little signal and does not switch on). The SUBS only switches on when there is more volume on the AVR. Then dynamic EQ on, SUB off (Audysey app) at -63db volume on AVR (SUB does not switch on). Can you understand how I mean it? Thanks and best regards from Austria (Europe)

[@ehall8929]

I've always been hesitant to go down this rabbit hole of chasing the perfect graph, but that said I learned a lot from your video. After watching it a couple of times, LOL. can you tell me, are these nulls and peaks at those certain frequencies really audible? And if I only have one place in my room where my sub can really go without being obtrusive, do you think it's really worth it to invest in a Umik and take measurements and try to smooth out the bass response even though I can't really move my sub? Thanks

[@ProjectSOG]

When trying to align the subs to the mains do I leave Audessey on and Dynamic EQ?

[@jovidec6274]

Yes.

[@pabsgabs]

I see that your left and right channels are at different db at the 2 minute mark. Is this normal? I also have to change mine, but more like 2 to 3 db. thank you.

[@HomeTheaterGamer]

It can be due to placement in the room. Adding 2-3dB isn’t really an issue when matching the front speakers, it’s when you have to boost them considerably that it points to an issue.

[@danmaier2077]

Hello, can you help me please? I don't get any sound when I'm taking measurements. From my laptop to Marantz. I do not know what I'm doing wrong . On the Marantz I set -17.5db but when I go to measure I don't get any sound. Thank you, greetings from Austria.

[@drewsmith1566]

Have to make sure umk1 is selected in your preferences top row under input device and you have the calibration file loaded.

[@danmaier2077]

@@drewsmith1566 And select Input Aux1 on the Marantz for the HDMI connection from the laptop to the Marantz. Is that right ?

[@drewsmith1566]

@@danmaier2077 Yes I do on my Denon but whatever it says on your Marantz should be labeled. Output under preference in Rew set to Marantz.

[@danmaier2077]

@@drewsmith1566 oK thanks 🙏

[@danmaier2077]

Sorry, I forgot something. The volume on the laptop must be 100%, is that correct? Audio Output Marantz Volume 100%

[@victorpulos823]

If you can get a straight line what does that mean for subs?

[@JASONXMARIELA]

Why doesn't anyone share how to hook everything up? Like you need to connect your PC to your receiver? How? Aux cord? HDMI? Does rew play thru only left or right or can you actually select what channels to play?

[@chiefrushhh]

Laptop/computer > AVR via HDMI. Yes REW has Chanel selections to play tones.

[@BabyDiego10599]

What is REW?

[@JurajHatina]

Thanks man!

[@pabsgabs]

So... when can you come over and hang out? lol So much work! but fun.

[@HomeTheaterGamer]

Haha. Just supply the food and drinks and I’m there.

[@MrSuperman258401]

So you didn't use you svs app PEQ setting to better setup your 2000 pro, and you haven't even touched the Audyssey multi EQ app editor. Both of these will help your setup even better still without a mini dsp 2x4HD.

[@HomeTheaterGamer]

I know. That would have made for an hour long video. Haha. Those videos are coming, but I didn’t want to over-complicate this video by including that stuff just yet and honestly, not many people have access to either a sub with built-in PEQ or the Audyssey editor app. I wanted to cover the basics first with stuff people have access to and that don’t need to purchase anything outside of a measurement mic.

[@MrNickster12345]

Hey, home theater gamer! I am looking for advice. I am looking to get my first serious home theater system. I’m looking to get a denon x4700h, klipsch rp280f’s, 450c’s and rp150m’s for surrounds. And I was looking to get two svs pb3000. Would audyssey be good enough if that’s all I do with speaker calibration? I’m not really looking to do all these other calibrations minidsp/ REW. And I heard based on room I would need a lot of room treatment. It is on a second floor of a two story house. The room has carpet. The only issues are that it’s F shaped( bottom of the F is where the room starts after going to the fight of stairs. And the other issue is low vaulted ceilings( lowest point of the ceiling is 44 inches from the floor). Would that setup be good enough with just audyessey calibration and no room treatment? I really do not want to go the sound bar route. Any advice would be much appreciated. Thank you.

[@drewsmith1566]

You could try some heavy curtains to block the stairs off . I used some from amazon in my situation. Having carpet is a big plus and adding seating couches etc help . Once you get REW its like a rabbit hole and even worse a mini dsp. Dont let any of this discourage you from going the route you want . I would get REW and a UMK1 MIC after getting familiar and setup with your gear. The thing is you end up spending more time doing measurement's than enjoying your system lol. At the end of the day go by your ears but REW and a mic is a useful tools to tweak like what's stated in this video. I have better results with REW with my LCR crossed over at 110 than at 80 but my ears cant hear the difference set at 80 or 110 .

[@MrSuperman258401]

Also download the Audyssey multi EQ app editor and the SVS app. But umik-1 and REW are definitely worth the investment to tune your system. It's easy and anyone can learn it... With practice

[@MrNickster12345]

@@drewsmith1566 thank you so much for the advice. Much appreciated.

[@MrNickster12345]

@@MrSuperman258401 thank you so much for the reply

[@MrSuperman258401]

@@MrNickster12345 yep, deal with this all the time in my FB HT group and other groups I help in... Also check out Home theater Guru's youtube channel.... Lot of good info there....

[@Snoopi.7]

Seems overwhelming I want to try this but feell I’ll be in over my head

[@simonpercivall]

This seems like a really nice way to really nail this process. Also with REW, but much of the guess work removed: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nZKVloKtf7enjtE

[@shaolin95]

Better bass...start by getting a PSA, Rythmik or JTR instead of an SVS

[@HomeTheaterGamer]

Nothing wrong with an SVS sub. But you do you. The steps and methods in the video apply to many subwoofers. The brand is irrelevant. Now if you’re looking for subs going below 10Hz, then yeah, you’ll need to look elsewhere.

[@marksmith-kl4nk]

Good video but your hand movement is very disstracting

[@HomeTheaterGamer]

My hands have a mind of their own sometimes.