BETTER than Terraforming Mars? - Overrated vs Underrated Board Games

Terraforming Mars, on paper, has everything to make it a game I should be crazy about: painstaking attention to detail in a scientifically accurate board game themed around terraforming the red planet. So why isn’t it a hit with me or the friends at my gaming table? In this video, I discuss the glaring issue with Terraforming Mars and what I suggest is a superior alternative: Cryo (2021)
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BUY TERRAFORMING MARS:
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View Cryo on The Perfect Boardgame:
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TABLE OF CONTENTS
0:00 - Intro
1:33 - How these games are rated
1:57 - The best thing about Terraforming Mars
2:46 - What is Cryo?
4:27 - The WORST thing about Terraforming Mars
7:20 - The BEST thing about Cryo
9:54 - Comparing Luck between Terraforming Mars and Cryo
10:30 - Comparing Strategy between Terraforming Mars and Cryo
11:46 - Comparing Complexity between Terraforming Mars and Cryo
13:00 - Conclusion - Is Cryo better than Terraforming Mars ?

[@hmmmstvethebaffled7720]

I think TMs themes are much better than you described honestly. On the surface level, yes, the game is scientifically and even geographically accurate in a lot of areas. The game does that excellently, like when an ocean forms when temperature hits 0 Celsius, or when the temperature increases cause theres more oxygen in the atmosphere. great stuff, and the cards add a lot to that too. Deeper down though, youll find a much more compelling theme of corporate greed. The game advertises itself as "you need to save humanity! Mars needs to be terraformed before earth becomes uninhabitable!" However, the more you play and the better you get at this game, the more you realize that in order to beat other players corporations, youll need to extend the game, hold off on terraforming, find ways to harm other players (which harms the goal of terraforming in the long term) and just generally go against the mission. I really love that. Many cards are savage and give you greater resources, but punish your final point total because they are scummy corporate greed actions. Its so subtle, like, screw terraforming mars, I want to be the richest corporation there is. You completely forget the main goal and become obsessed with greed. I also love the way you can appreciate your legacy at the end. All of the cards you laid out over the course of the game, all your forests and cities on the map, its beautiful to look at. I know you say a higher theme usually takes away from mechanics, but I think you misjudged it a little. I dont think its overrated at all, I think its just a good game. I know how you feel when you talked about getting cards you may not need, and hoping to get the stuff you need in the future to use them, basically relying on luck. However, its really a beginners mistake. It turns out if you find yourself in a situation with a card that you cant play, but MIGHT be able to play in the future with lucky card draws, you are planning for failure. Youll waste resources that could have been spent just raising your TR. Your idea of age cards is interesting, but i really think its unnecessary. Cards aren't everything in this game; there are so many options other than playing cards, especially with expansions. I will say this game is much better with expansions, which is good and bad (a game should be good with or without expansions). Anyways, sorry to rant. I like TM a lot, I dont like when people call it overrated. I think its well deserving of its popularity. Its hard to find a game with great themes and mechanics like this. Btw, found your channel recently, love your vids. Great stuff, will subscribe.

[@theperfectboardgame]

Love this comment. This is up there as one of the best defenses of TM that I’ve heard, and I’ve heard a few!

[@hmmmstvethebaffled7720]

@@theperfectboardgame Thanks man, I appreciate that a lot. By the way, I absolutely love your website. I'm trying to get more into board games and your website is so helpful. You're awesome man!

[@nigelgraves174]

Nice vid! I have been looking at Cryo for a while and definitely want to try it at some point. Fair comments re TM -- if it doesn't float your boat then no big deal I guess. I think your comment re separating the cards out into Ages is an interesting one. I think the Ages mechanism works well in Underwater Cities -- though I don't feel that UC is as close to TM as some might say (I'd say UC is closer to Agricola TBF). However I have found the cards in UC to be somewhat generic and lacking in any real character: they all have names but I don't find any of them particularly memorable. It's interesting that you mention TTA which is also essentially a card-drafting game: of course, the biggest problem some people have with the Ages system in TTA is that in order to implement the kind of long-term strategy that you would like to see in TM, all of the cards in the deck(s) have to come down the river at some point (whether they are played or not) and so games of TTA for inexperienced players can go on for several hours. I think the tactical make-the-best-of-what-is-in-your-hand approach of TM is what most of its fans like about it: like Race for the Galaxy, it forces you to make tough decisions on the spot while focussing on a longer strategy (as well as common goals) and I think it fits the theme quite nicely. If one were to actually try to terraform Mars there would no doubt be countless examples of technologies that would be great to have right now but you just can't afford them at the moment or even contractors trying to get in on the act but their services are no longer required as we already have all the water we need etc. These are all represented by the cards that are sometimes no use at the specific time when they are drawn and sometimes are absolutely perfect. But of course if you don't have fun playing TM then none of that matters :) Thanks for sharing!

[@theperfectboardgame]

Your comment: "If one were to actually try to terraform Mars there would no doubt be countless examples of technologies that would be great to have right now but you just can't afford them at the moment or even contractors trying to get in on the act but their services are no longer required as we already have all the water we need etc" ...the best argument I've heard against my claims. Thank you so much for sharing your detailed thoughts. I actually played TM one more time on my phone so I could get the screen capture in this video (but I filmed the video first) and the experience re-validated everything I said, but it also reminded me of some of your points too: the crisis of "I have this card I really want for later but, can I actually afford it?" is interesting every round. I also shared Cryo a few weeks ago with my core gaming group, none of whom had even heard of the game. While there were a few criticisms of the card text (at times they are less specific when they could just as easily specify the exact effect of a card) the most common exclamation was, "Wow!" It truly is a thematically and mechanically cohesive game.

[@Vizinho_FGC]

Great review! Though my feelings about TM might not be on the same page as yours, I really liked the structure of it. The parallels between the games mechanics and themes makes this review feel like a great introduction to Cryo, it got me really interested in getting to know it better!

[@theperfectboardgame]

Wow, thank you! That is such a thoughtful compliment!

[@cabalpaxiarch7239]

And as to your theme vs mechanic objection which, from what I understand is your main argument, one can easily argue that there's plenty of long term strategy in TM. Between selecting from the 4 preludes, two company abilities and 10 project cards you have a pretty clear strategy forming very early. And the key to the drafting process is to consider that these cards are just designs. All major technology companies receive pitches for ambitious designs and gradually choose where to invest. That's all it's simulating. So it's pretty thematic. But more than that, theme isn't necessarily a key factor to considering a game great. My favorite designer is Stefan Feld and the theme in his games is just decorative. I'm glad you appreciate theme and that it's important to you but not everyone has the same priorities in evaluating games.

[@theperfectboardgame]

I’m loving the counterpoints. I can’t tell if you are enjoying this and will be back for more or if you will never watch another of my videos, but I would love to hear your thoughts on my Ark Nova review. If you aren’t familiar, I think Ark Nova effectively captures what T.M. does well but in a more streamlined and fun way.

[@cabalpaxiarch7239]

@@theperfectboardgame "Never watch another video of yours" is a little dramatic. I just had a couple objections. Actually it was the Arc Nova video that led me down this TM rabbit hole and I found your passionate distaste interesting so I guess you're right on that front. Passion is entertaining. I enjoy Arc Nova a lot but between TM, Wingspan and underwater cities I feel like I'm drowning in card driven engine builders. Thank goodness I escaped everdell. I mean, it's cute but I can't handle yet another one of those. Wingspan is definitely my favorite, but it's so light and fast that in reality you can't really compare them. My group has played dozens of games of TM at this point so Arc Nova has been a really nice pallet cleanser for the genre. I can honestly say that if I don't play another game of TM this year I'm totally fine with it. I like it but it's not worth playing twice a month. But you have to keep the group happy right? However I think Arc Nova gets a lot of "shiny new toy" points and in the long run TM will remain our staple game in that field.

[@theperfectboardgame]

Those are solid games. If you keep watching my videos, you'll encounter my criticisms of Wingspan, but I'm definitely harder on T.M. than anything else (that I've published, at least.) If you are drowning in card-based engine builders and you'd like something fresh, might I recommend a few games that have card-based worker placement? It provides variability that I know you like but the cards are common to all players. I love Beyond the Sun and Troyes.

[@cabalpaxiarch7239]

@@theperfectboardgame Have them, love them, they're amazing. I just meant I have a lot of games of this specific genre but I also have many others which I love. But one has to cull their collections, we can't have everything, it's simply not efficient and it's kind of pointless. I want to keep games I play semi-regularly. Terra Mystica, Concordia, Dune Imperium and everything Feld are the games I play most often.

[@theperfectboardgame]

Oh man, at least we can agree on something: Concordia never gets old and I will never get rid of Terra Mystica.

[@Alonso692]

Have you played Terraforming Mars:Ares Expedition? Many people says it fixes a lot of thing from the original and I would like to hear your opinion on it

[@anasriyal7595]

when you play terraforming mars with prelude, you start with prelude cards, cooperation and 10 project cards you can really do all the plan you want to play with mostly there are similar cards for every plan so its hard to miss out all the cards you need.

[@theperfectboardgame]

Okay. That’s admittedly very cool.

[@nebwatts3425]

Great video with compelling case for cryo, paper tales with the expansion is a underrated game for me and my family, I would compare it to 7 wonders

[@branislaverken9293]

Discovered your channel. First I hear: "terraforming mars is overrated"... Subscribed

[@theperfectboardgame]

Haha! That’s great. I’ve received a little push back for videos like this one, but that’s exactly why I made this video: to be up front about the types of games I like so viewers will know what kind of recommendations they can expect from me. Be sure to let me know if you find any underrated games that deserve more attention.

[@ChanseHungerford]

100% agree. Cryo is amazing and the drafting for terraforming made no sense to me for the reasons that you mentioned.

[@Jy3pr6]

Thank you for this comparison video. Do you think that Cryo has a replayability problem with the limited amount of cards and tiles?

[@theperfectboardgame]

That’s a good question. When I think of replayability, I don’t necessarily think of “variety of setup”, I simply think: “do I like playing it multiple times”? This game has variety because you can use the cards in different ways and pursue different strategies. There is also variation in how the spaces are setup, making some types of actions more rate than others. Ultimately, I just like playing this game whenever it comes out!

[@goran2608]

Thank you for this video, this game is so under the radar I probably wouldn't even know it existed if not for this, and now it is one of my favourites. Never understood the hype around Terraforming Mars, I tried it a couple of times and have no interest in playing it again. To each their own I guess. Thank you once again, I love the channel and this video format.

[@theperfectboardgame]

Thank you so much. The best compliment I can receive is to hear from someone who actually took the risk on one of my recommendations for an "under-the-radar" game and came back to say they love it.

[@javierdarkona7612]

You are so spot on that it's amazing. Great minds think alike they say. I arrived at the exact same conclusions after some 10 games. I'd like to try Cryo now. Great video, good job!

[@theperfectboardgame]

Thank you! As you might imagine, plenty of people disagree with me, but it’s always a pleasure to find other “great minds”!

[@peterjames2580]

More shows like this! Thanks!

[@neverbenbetter8225]

Thank you! I’m working on a list of games comparable to The Crew for my next video.

[@theperfectboardgame]

Oh, whoops. Was logged into my other account when I sent that. Thank you!

[@tas1624]

I have to agree, TM really needs to have the cards separated into ages or some sort of Tech tree groups, which would be really hard to do (or setup) given the number of cards.

[@Jmans247massathon]

Terraforming Mars is a Mess. Thanks for offering an alternative.

[@theperfectboardgame]

Thanks for watching this video! Man, I just rewatched it. So dark in that old room, it was almost depressing. But Cryo has been a lasting favorite for me.

[@uziekiele]

Have you played Dwellings of Eldervale? That's another Luke Laurie design that has very similar mechanics to Cryo but is a better game than Cryo imo.

[@theperfectboardgame]

No, I haven’t. It looks a lot heavier, which I would be into. I will definitely take a look. Cryo is actually the first game I’ve played by Laurie.

[@SkyMurphy77]

These games look way complicated. Have you played Polytopia (phone game)? I think it has a world building tree you’d like. Please get yourself some soft box lighting.

[@theperfectboardgame]

Downloading now! And YES! I actually just moved (from Japan) and many of our things are still on their way (including my lights). It’s been months since I made a video with my face in it, but I finally decided it “didn’t have to be perfect” and I filmed this as is. Light quality will improve for sure!

[@raynlim]

My Father's Work, for sure. Underrated

[@cordtiley8017]

Your link for Terraforming Mars sends you to buy from Cryo. Idk if that's part of the joke or not lol.

[@theperfectboardgame]

Dude. I wish. That was an oversight. Thanks!

[@garettruesch2294]

I totally agree with your analysis of Terraforming Mars. It was fun when first played it, but now it just seems mechanically off. On another note, you ever played Jurassic Park: Danger? It's a thematic game that I find satisfying, but is generally underrated.

[@theperfectboardgame]

Ooh! Thank you! No, I haven’t. I will definitely take a look. I will add, however, that I am generally interested in games that have their own universe. I don’t get into Star Wars games or anything like that. Nevertheless, a personal recommendation is never something I take lightly, regardless of the genre or style.

[@garettruesch2294]

@@theperfectboardgame I've actually never seen Jurassic Park. I'm familiar with the idea, but I was given the game as a gift and was pleasantly surprised given my lack of background.

[@RaymondMillbrae]

Interesting.

[@theperfectboardgame]

The rating system? The contrast between the games? The video overall? Would love to hear your thoughts.

[@diamondmeeple]

I love bashing of TM

[@theperfectboardgame]

What can I say? I love calling out overrated games when I see them.

[@ROOKTABULA]

You lost me: Theme and Mechanics are better in Cryo so there's a higher numeric value. Wrt Luck, Cryo is better because there's less of it, so you rate it a 3 for having less (undesirable) luck in the game play and give a 5 to the game with more luck?

[@theperfectboardgame]

The rating is not how great it is but how much there is. Some people like games with luck, so for them, a game with a low luck profile would be bad, but for me it is good. The idea is to have your own “formula” and to find games that match.

[@theperfectboardgame]

I just published a quiz on my site that will help you understand the terms I use and how you can make your own custom formula. It’s on theperfectboardgame.com

[@cabalpaxiarch7239]

Jeez man tell us how you really feel. I mean, it's your right to like whatever you like but just because YOU don't like TM doesn't mean it's overrated. All it means is that you have different tastes. I enjoy cryo. I love engine building euros so it's right up my alley, but again, that doesn't mean it's underrated, it just means that people have different tastes. The bgg ranking isn't indicative of worth, just of average taste. People are not obligated to like the same things you do and it's not a personal affront to all things just and righteous if something you don't like is considered amazing by most people. Just as it isn't a sign that it's actually amazing just because it's considered by many to be so. There's no such thing as an objectively good board game. It's just a matter of taste.

[@theperfectboardgame]

Couldn’t agree more. As a reviewer, I do think it’s valuable to “tell people how I really feel” because it helps people understand MY taste and identify whether or not they like what I like. I think it is more valuable to offer highly opinionated reviews, but you don’t have to identify with them. Secondly, I think it offers some degree of entertainment. Thanks for stopping by!

[@stepandurov1592]

Sorry but several points you make don't make sense to me. 1) You critique TM for having no progression, and therefore the theme is not well alligned with the mechanics. Huh? Did you really play TM I wonder then, because TM is all about progression. Many cards can only be played once certain thresholds are reached, some way far off into the future, so everything is about long-term planning and progression, exactly as the rulebook you quoted. And everything makes scientifically-thematically sense: animals come into play once TM is terraformed to a sufficient degree. When it is warm enough, liquid water exists etc... it is exactly the opposite of what you claim TM to be (only card drafting is relevant to the current moment without progression). 2) Drafting game? Only at the beginning of the game. Choosing which cards to keep during the game is very important, but playing a good combo of cards that grows over the course of the game is the crux of TM... card-based engine-builder would be on point, "drafting game" is misleading. 3) A 3 for mechanics, 9 for theme, because you think the mechanics don't fit the theme, huh, shouldn't you judge mechanics based on the mechanics (do you like it despite theme), and theme for the overall integration of the theme. 4) Cryo is a completely different game, therefore this comparison makes little sense. Underrated, overrated, it shouldn't matter what others peope think about a game whether you personally like it or not; otherwise, being "unique" or "niche" is the goal, and not simply to enjoy playing boardgames.

[@theperfectboardgame]

Yeah. You are probably right. It’s been a while since I’ve played TM. I really didn’t like it at the time, but you make good points. My whole critique about progression is that you can keep cards you think will be valuable but later your plans might not pan out due to luck with cards later in the game. I wish there was a technology tree, that’s all. Thanks for the thoughtful comment!

[@stepandurov1592]

@@theperfectboardgame Thanks for your reply. When I read my comment back, it might have come across as a bit harsh. Sorry about that. Fair enough, there is indeed no straightforward tech tree (though as I argued there might be a hidden one). Maybe it could help to look at it like this: as a terraformer, you know of course that later in the project, you plan birds and herbivores to exist on Mars. I agree on the luck part, although you can reduce it to an extent, by ensuring you get many new cards through various abilities (and doing the research phase plenty enough). I never had my strategy not work out that way (especially when you draft the first cards you get), and there is also a degree of adaptability to the cards you are dealth with. Even so, there is the unfortunate, odd lucky card at the end that suddenly gives you +6 points for example out of the blue; this seems unavoidable the way the game plays. It happened rarely in my games though - nearly all points earned are planned from early on.

[@theperfectboardgame]

If I thought you were too harsh, I wouldn’t even respond. I’m not interested is feeding trolls but I will always invite a discussion of a game’s merits and I like your take on it.

[@keith2570]

I didn't care for Cryo.