Betty X Simon: TRUE LOVE Gone WRONG

[@SarcasticChorus]

What’s your favorite Adventure Time Ship? And for the love of Glob pls don’t say Fionna X Simon😭

[@logandelacruz2152]

Marceline x Bubblegum. Even in the vampire world, they fit together so well lol.

[@louaidz1929]

I am vibing currently with Gary/Gumball x Marshall Lee

[@noahmpinto14]

Can u make a video on Goku and Chi-Chi or any Hunter x Hunter relationships ?

[@deadcool3227]

I love Finn x HW. Also why? I think it's a cute ship

[@noahmpinto14]

Or many Doctor who ships?

[@valentinkambushev4968]

What I find the most tragic is the fact that it all happened in one second. Simon wanted to put the crown on his head as a joke and in the second he did so, his and Betty's lives were over. It wasn't a sacrifice or a heroic act, it was just a harmless joke that went wrong in every possible way.

[@philly_sports1558]

It’s so wild how a joke gone wrong impacted SO MUCH in this universe. Think about it. Had Simon not put the crown on, he never would have become immortal and Betty would have never travelled 1000 years into the future. They most likely would have just died during the Mushroom War. It’s a ton to think about.

[@Manimanocas]

​@@philly_sports1558also every human prob would have died by the hands of vampires too

[@Deeznootsgotteem]

Wait, where does it says he wear it for gigs, that's fuckin sad :(

[@raffaeledangelo5535]

​​@@Deeznootsgotteemduring the tapes he says smth about we found this crown and for a joke he put it on and then it all went BAD

[@greekcommie621]

​@@orbboom6119I don't think that Simon not finding or putting on the crown is a guarantee of vampires taking over. Sure it would make the apocalypse harder to survive but the star universe is only one of the possibilities, it's not impossible for a human Simon to survive for a while, we saw how humans were managing to survive in stakes so maybe Simon and Betty could too. The multiverse is a big place, anything can happen in it

[@thewerdna]

I love the maturity here to have their relationship be ultimately a toxic relationship but not due to any maliciousness on either's part

[@Im-BAD-at-satire]

Seeing how toxic positivity is a thing, it's reasonable to see toxicity to be not solely of ill or malicious intentions. The emotion of love can make even a genius lose sense of rationality.

[@errorx_x1063]

@@Im-BAD-at-satire That sums up the ship in a nutshell for both characters

[@nandotnt5678]

Unhealthy is the better word for it

[@grapesauce5091]

Fr there toxic but its not there fault

[@ap7635]

I wouldn't call it toxic. It was honestly an almost ideal relationship with one flaw that neither of them really noticed. That's better than what most people have. If they had more time together I feel like they probably would've noticed it and worked to fix it. It would probably only take one instance of Betty being more assertive about her desires, or Simon being more aware about how often she went along with him. Once they noticed the problem I can't imagine they wouldn't be able to fix it.

[@Wormpole]

I'm so glad they managed to show a relationship with problematic elements without villainifying one of the characters in it or ramping it up to cartoonish levels of toxic like many shows do. Most relationships don't have someone purposely manipulating the other person or taking advantage of them, they genuinely don't realize they're doing it most of the time.

[@Aazdremzul]

Honestly, this is why it's kind of hard to wrap my head around the idea that this relationship was truly toxic. It just seemed very unfortunate because both loved each other so deeply, but clearly they could've done more to protect that relationship. Simon could've chosen her interests more, but Betty could've asserted herself more as well. They both just needed to practice what the other had an abundance of and learn from each other. This reminds me of an early kind of love, one that just has a burning passion and commitment to each other with no other connections. It doesn't last long, but it burns hot and usually ends up with some mistakes that lead to developing their person and character and a pretty mutual break up. The story of Fiona and Cake let's Simon and Betty fully cope with their relationship, and the break up is kinda finalized. They aren't meant to be together anymore, even though they loved each other very much.

[@ArcDragoon]

@@Aazdremzul Sometimes, people you love become "people you used to know". And that's okay. People need to learn that it is okay for people to go their separate ways and to move on.

[@Aazdremzul]

@ArcDragoon Yeah, I see that in Simon and Betty's relationship. I think it's also about how they changed as people and grew into people who loved each other but weren't right for each other. This is one of the most unfortunate things with relationships. Sometimes, they don't end with any satisfying or meaningful reason immediately apparent. Sometimes, they end because a relationship has gone on for too long, and both parties aren't the same people who started the relationship and now aren't compatible with each other in the same way. Usually, the way around this is to change as people with each other in a shared goal or idea. Love can't be the sole goal or idea. It's the reason you start trying, not the reason you continue trying.

[@madman7544]

And they were so unlucky as well on top of that.

[@tsunertoo9149]

Thhere's a popular show called in the Criminal Minds that actually has another relationship that is almost exactly like that too. The couple themselves are super happy and its a delight when they are on screen, but they are in fact devorced and you learn the reasons why throughout the show and realize that even though they clearly have a powerful adoration for one another, their divorce was probably one of the best things they could have done. In the end, it's not always some huge mistake or one person doing something terrible. @@Aazdremzul

[@bad-girl-coventhe-owl-club1119]

It is impossible to deny that these two really loved each other, but to a point that reaches the toxic point, since both are willing to consciously leave their own being in order to do something for the other, both cannot or do not want to be without each other. It is very romantic and tragic. These two really can't catch a break from the craziness. Best couple in Cartoon Network.

[@abhikergaming7783]

@oddrevolver9026 Nah man they embody that even death won't do us part

[@Skippy2603]

i won't lie, i'm really bored of the word 'toxic' being applied to any perceived flaw in a relationship or even just negative consequence of a relationship

[@katt-katt2606]

I think they're more codependent than toxic, toxic usually implies harm, and while they weren't exactly healthy together I wouldn't say they were harmful to each other.

[@Zorae42]

@@katt-katt2606 You think Betty being so obsessed that she doesn't think there's anything to her but Simon isn't harmful? Yes the video game was a metaphor, but the Betty proxy having to constantly swallow her ideas and not be heard was definitely harmful. And finally, you think sacrificing yourself to a chaos demon for the other person isn't harmful? She literally threw away everything - including her life for him - and you think that's not harmful??

[@henritaas9997]

​@@Zorae42I believe they meant that they weren't harmful to the other, because technically both were at fault, Simon for being oblivious to Betty's over-commitment and Betty for not realizing how far she was going just for Simon without considering her own life Simon didn't harm her and she didn't harm him, but their actions still ended up ruining their lives

[@philly_sports1558]

What I find so interesting about Simon is that his heart is so big that it kind of blocks out his ability to think rationally. He loved Betty so much to the point where he wasn’t aware of how much she had to sacrifice to be with him. Even when he was losing his mind, he still chose to look after a little girl in the apocalypse but decided to amplify his insanity in order to protect her. He’s a very intelligent person but his heart always overtook his mind in terms of dealing with other people. He’s a great person who still happens to be flawed at the same time. I’m just happy he finally seems to be happy,

[@dazzlingdexter5060]

Simon was such a tragic character. He eventually went insane but he did try to keep the people he loved.

[@horushyperion76]

Is that really a flaw? Should we rebuke the ideal of putting people we care about above our sanity and health?

[@Latency345]

@@horushyperion76sacrificing yourself may sound heroic, but what of the people around them?

[@sheepketchup9059]

That's not character flaw, that's selflessness, that's a virtue

[@sheepketchup9059]

​@@Latency345other people around them should take that as an example to aspire to be

[@abubakrakram6208]

I liked how Simon was made to realize that he could have intervened and bent his own life to what Betty wanted to do, but ultimately Betty's the one who obsessed over him and gave up her life to save him. She chose that. Simon begged her to just leave Golb's stomach with him, but she didn't want to. I read that a lot of people thought Golb and ridding away on the bus was funny, but I thought it was horrifying. It reminded me that there can't be any true catharsis from that; nothing can make that situation OK, but Simon should remember that she chose to get on the bus. He could have tried to stop her, but it was her choice.

[@clarisacalderon9555]

honesly I wish they had adressed that her trip orginally wasnt meant to last forever....she was going to come back...even if he had gotten on that bus ride with her...he wouldnt have been able to go with her on the plane because he didn't have a ticket. he could have joined her on her trip later afte rpreparing to or even jst said that he'll contact her when she gets back if she's still interested....like I understood the two choices aspect and what it meant but there could have been work arounds you know. and I think its also kindof the difference becuase betty jumps in without thinking through alot of the practical aspects...like runing forward to scare off the dangers without realizing what if she gets bit compared to simon who was more careful...she jumped at the opportnuity to join him on his trip even when he hadnt fully meant his invitation at first while simon is more practical....and he took what she said in her letter verbatum mixed with how he didnt have a ticket so wouldnt have been able to joing her anyway even if he did get on that bus since she didnt give him time to prepare to go since he only found out through the letter at the last minute

[@DrawciaGleam02]

"Simon begged her to just leave Golb's stomach with him, but she didn't want to. " It wasn't JUST that..... All of Ooo would have been in danger if Betty had just left with Simon then. Besides, Golb showing up was HER fault, so Betty must've felt some responsibility to stop Golb.

[@frauleinzuckerguss1906]

Ironic that the one time she chose to not go with him was the time she would ultimately meet her end

[@clarisacalderon9555]

though it could be said her choice was tied with her deciding to include herself on his adventure by refusing to let him die...and if he hd just stuck to his guns and not given in to agreeing to let her try to save him because thats what he thought she wanted because she said so...like when she said she wanted him to have his moment and not be inclued with the book or when she said she wanted to be with him all the time. where his first istincts were to think about her but he'd give in because she would tell him what she'd want desite him feeling like something was off.... like even if she had still forced him to put on the crown regardless...maybe if he had been more firm about it she might have been more willing to either work with other people or let him go when the time came. like how when she said she wanted to be with him always but that wasnt wat she needed at that time. but damn it does hurt....the time he needed to actively stop her from getting on that bus he wasnt able to do it and bam...god betty@@frauleinzuckerguss1906

[@Marqrk]

I kind of disagree on the Golb riding the bus thing. Simon and Betty were reliving that critical moment in their lives, and reconciling everything that happened with them. Simon finally understood that Betty was gone, and that his own inability to recognize that she had to go on her own path and not just follow him was part of what lead to everything, hence why he let her go in this recreation while still telling her how much he loved her and how much she meant to him. It was also Betty, as part of Golb, accepting that she was in fact wrong to constantly idolize Simon and sacrifice everything for him. She in this recreation finally realized that her unhealthy devotion to Simon brought untold suffering not just to herself but to many others, and that while she was happy she was also leading to the ruin of her happily ever after, hence why she said he was an “experience” rather than anything else. I feel like it was the closure both were seeking, with Betty and Simon finally parting on their own terms and accepting their lots in life, with Betty living as a part of Golb and Simon moving on and living for himself and the people he loves and loved.

[@tacticalkyuubi3814]

Betty is the equivalent of "mama didn't raise no bitch" and gave birth to the most loving and "ride or die" women POSSIBLE

[@heatherramirez6141]

We love her for it, through all of the insanity of the ships.

[@joganesha4151]

She's also a "fuck around and find out" woman and boy did she fuck around with magic and found... a lot...

[@Madder-bj5mk]

Like 999

[@sunphoenix1231]

The video was more about obsession and not genuine love. Simon and Betty obsessed more than a healthy love.

[@tacticalkyuubi3814]

@@sunphoenix1231 I will not take this harassment in my slash fanfic

[@genkoti]

For a guy that as far as we know isnt a catalyst comet, this guy impacted literally EVERYTHING in the series.

[@Izanami037]

Yeah, are we sure he isn’t? Him finding the crown was literally the best case scenario for Ooo it seems.

[@a.n.9800]

@@Izanami037and to think, he was introduced as the main reoccurring villain.

[@shiny_teddiursa]

@@Izanami037i think its cool that he doesn’t have to be some sort of grandiose comet-incarnate to have that much of an effect on the world, he was just a regular human who happened to find the most powerful magic artifact in the world

[@SpectreCarli]

​@@Izanami037he really isn't. There's 4 Catalyst comets and 2 of them are in Ooo and the other 2 are just minding their own business

[@fist-of-doom487]

@@Izanami037 Simon is low key the most important person in this series. Without him Ooo wouldn’t exist how it is, it probably wouldn’t exist at all. Simon has saved the world and in some cases the Universe itself several times and it’s all because he put that crown on as a joke only once

[@nathanblackburn1193]

You know what's weird? Betty and Marceline never interact, aside from the extremely brief moment when she jumps into Ooo she never once interacts with who is essentially Simon's adopted daughter and I'm not sure if that was intentional or not

[@thedarknessofmandy]

I hadn’t even thought of this but it’s so right. Not only that, she just pretty much sidelines everyone close in Simon’s life

[@BasilBeesLair]

Maybe it is a way to represent how much obsessed she was in returning simon back? Like, all other important characters for him except for betty just happened because of the crown and the consequences of it, of all the time he lived because of it, the context. So, like how she is ignoring all that happened it would make sense for her to ignore the others that lived it. If this make sense

[@PaintraSeaPea]

@@BasilBeesLair This definitely. She was fully willing to erase everyone in Ooo from existence because she wanted to return to the life she and Simon had. I wouldn't be surprised if she never really internalized the crazy fantasy world as reality, for her she was just suddenly warped there one day and lost all connection to the world she knew.

[@noremac7216]

Always felt like in the original series Betty and Marcy were supposed to be Parallels for unhealthy versus healthy ways of coping with a loved one with dementia. Marcy went off and lived her own life and eventually accepted Ice King for how he was then and wanted to be as good a friend as she could to him in the present, quirks and all. Betty could never see Simon inside Ice King so she just kept trying to cure him even to the point where she put him in danger and almost got him killed by Golb. Marcy respected what autonomy Ice King had left but Betty was willing to type what little of that he had remaining in order to try to make him what she needed him to be. It's basically the same principal as in The Owl House whenever Gwendolyn told the healing coven to cut Eda's curse out if they had to

[@ImDoneArguingOnYTComments]

Holy shit that makes a lot of sense actually- I have already heard about people comparing Ice King to a person struggling with alzheimers, dementia or even a very severe case or manic disorder or bipolar. But now that I think about it, Betty and Marceline really coped with the situation very differently. One of them being much harmful though. That is pretty sad to think about.

[@noremac7216]

@@ImDoneArguingOnYTComments my grandfather struggled with seizures and during the last year-and-a-half of his life pretty much lost most of his lucidity. I Remember You is so relatable because of that and one of my favorite episode. In my opinion it's one of the best representations of what it's like to have a parent figure suffering from some form of dementia

[@ImDoneArguingOnYTComments]

@@noremac7216 I'm so sorry to hear that. I feel like coping with someone struggling with such issues (alzheimers/dementia/severe case of other mental disorders/neurological disorders etc...) isn't being talked enough in media. It is actually a much more common issue than many people think. Everyone probably had met an Ice King once in their life. The type of person you love so much, and you just know they will forever love you deep down in there, and you feel grateful for those sweet memories you made in the past with them. Acceptance is a beautiful thing too, it may be depressing at first, but it just sets people free. I suggest everyone who currently has a loved one struggling with such issues to spend as much time with them as possible. Cherish them and those times. But also try not take everything too seriously, and try to come to accept their fate. Try to enjoy different aspects of your life too; maybe spend time with some other people too, maybe focus on education, work or other hobbies... I know it sounds hard and cruel, but it just is. Also, never completely forget about that loved one, try to spend time with them regularly too, they may enjoy it too :] Anyways, hope everyone reading this comment is having a nice day/night.

[@mika4moon]

I definitely agree. But its also, very different. A parental figure having dementia versus the love of your life having it are kind of incomparable. I believe most people would fare it better if its not a partner. But it still doesn't change the fact IK had the situation and betty handled it very badly. Marcy was able to still have her connection in, a healthy way. But Marcy also got used to not having him around at all and him coming back at some point, even if just the shadow of his past self. Betty's memories were fresh and she was still quite a bit younger than all of them too. Her first problem was seeing her dedication to her cause wasn't enough to fix him. Second was she was never going to have her "lover" back. Its not like she could just visit him once in a while or live with a person with dementia as their spouse like that. People have it easier at old age to be with their spouse with dementia but betty was young and had so little time with him... I just want to point out it was harder for Betty and its quite humane... But it just doesn't change what you said. Just adds to it.

[@noremac7216]

@@mika4moon oh I agree they did a good job of writing their circumstances where even if the way they handled the situation can be objectively labeled as healthy or toxic it doesn't assassinate the integrity of the character exhibiting those traits. Betty is being controlling and manipulative towards Simon, but it's not because she wants to hurt him it's because she can't process the situation in a healthy way. And I love that in the Fionna and Cake spin-off we get to see that Simon is guilty of similar behavior. Their relationship wasn't perfect but it could have been and it makes it all the more sad that it got cut short the way that it did but I'm glad that they both eventually were able to find closure in one way or another

[@hattoripool1533]

The Simon and Betty romance was always the most interesting part of the show. Like you could tell there could be multiple different universes where they get their happy ending together but the versions of them we watch and follow are unfortunately not those versions and will never get that ending no matter what even if they attempt to hook up with alternate versions of each other

[@valentinkambushev4968]

Even in these "happy universes" they most likely died in the mushroom war. There is no happy ending for them.

[@shawnbay2211]

Not 2 me & I don’t think so. I think their relationship can b contrasted with Pb&Marcy’s as 1 that’s actually destined 2 almost always fail rather than succeed. That’s a cool concept but most relationships in the show just aren’t interesting. Idc about the show’s attempts at romance except Pb&Marcy’s … but nothing can compare 2 it anyway & I argue that’s the best thing adventure time’s done. Okay sorry but I can so argue about this bc there’s undoubtedly way more interesting things from the show than this romance. Not saying the writers did bad - actually what happened in the spin-off was fantastic. But most relationship stories in shows r fundamentally generic & unsurprising.

[@shadowgear7032]

​@@shawnbay2211I honestly didnt really like the pb and marcy ship either honestly. Mostly because I just dont like pb in general in the later seasons so marcy my favorite side character and one of my least favorite character getting together was not sonething I really liked. I did like the male versions in fiona and cake alot more though

[@Zorae42]

@@shadowgear7032 Probably because Gary wasn't a literal war criminal pretending to be a sugary sweet princess

[@aerickmon3350]

Interesting take For me it was always marceline and Simon and their relationship being built off loss, growing up and moving on, all of course in both a very wholesome and painful way

[@Kevin-jb2pv]

31:47 Simon was _NOT_ Betty's teacher! Simon was giving a lecture, and Betty was in the crowd, but this looks like it was a professional/ scientific presentation of his findings that he was giving to his _peers,_ not to his _students._ Betty _was_ still a student at this point, but I think the implication is that she was a PhD student attending a lecture that was happening at a conference. Simon, meanwhile, seems to have only fairly recently attained _his own_ PhD, and has spent his time since researching these artifacts and was still trying to prove his ideas to the rest of the community. What we see here is that he is still young (for academia) and not taken seriously, which is why the crowd was heckling him. Which, the fact that literally everyone else in that crowd was heckling Simon is an important point that mitigates some of the imbalance going on, here. Yes, Betty was still enamored with him from the start, but Simon was not a rock star academic at this time, that wouldn't happen until later. If anything, he was a joke. There's a big difference that is important. For instance, if someone plays a show at something like an open mic night and they get booed off the stage, but one person comes up afterward to tell them that they really liked their music, then that's a totally different situation than if a big, famous rock star played a show and then started letting groupies line up outside their dressing room, afterward. Simon _was not_ a famous scholar at this point. He was simply someone who had managed to get at least one academic paper published that Betty had read and really liked. It seems to me like what happened is that Betty read his research, really liked it and so decided to go see his presentation, _and then got a crush on him while she was watching him in the crowd and decided to go up and talk to him._ And, remember, she went up to talk to him after Simon got pretty viciously heckled and laughed at by the crowd, so this could _hardly_ be her being star struck. I think the bigger message, here, is that Betty and Simon _both_ had research that they both could have pursued, and Betty made the decision to follow Simon's path while Simon didn't even register how much she gave up to do that. The implication, especially with the context of the choose your own adventure story from the 9th episode, is that if Simon had, instead, followed _Betty_ on her path, then they might have been able to have a happy ending together, but that's not what happened. I imagine that Betty's research was just as exciting and had just as much potential to be a big breakthrough as Simon's. After all, her research _also_ required her to travel to remote places of the world and probably would have been just as much of an adventure for them as the hunt for the Enchiridion. But, instead, Betty constantly gave up her own dreams for Simon's, and Simon took it for granted. He never even noticed what she was doing for him. He wasn't manipulative about it. He never asked her to give up on her own path. But he also never considered that this is what she was doing for him, either. It was just a case of two good people having toxic elements of their relationship spiral out of control. Simon was singularly focused, and Betty was willing to follow him at her own expense and without complaint. If Simon had thought about Betty's perspective more, then he _probably_ would have at least talked to her about what she wanted, and if Betty had just told Simon how she felt, then Simon _probably_ would have either been willing to compromise, or to take turns on their adventures, or _whatever_ the solution may have been. I don't think that the point being made here is that there was a power imbalance. I think the message here is much more, "You need to be considerate of what others around you need, but you also need to value your own wants and needs in life." AKA "Relationships are about compromise, communication, and balance."

[@beatofromuminekorealnotcli4574]

The fact that other people didn't respect Simon is completely irrelevant when Betty herself clearly did to a celebrity worship extent, viewing him as superior to her and positioning herself as his assistant and number 2. That's an inherently unhealthy and imbalanced relationship that could never work. Don't fuck your groupies, it's gross.

[@detectivebrown6211]

Wether or not simon was super famous and beloved in the scientific community, she still idolized him to an unhealthy amount

[@Takejiro24]

I mean, about 5 seconds later, Sarcastic Chorus goes onto say that Simon was probably just a guest lecturer and not her full time teacher.

[@Replied_ByMeatr1der5]

​@@beatofromuminekorealnotcli4574Perhaps being imbalanced is what made it work (?) I mean they were happy about it, no matter who gave the most, they were fine with it. Simon was being more proactive while Betty chose to be more supportive than self focuses. Maybe y'all should start bitching less about someone else being generous and giving specially when that is their own will

[@Andrews13channel]

Yappington city heights over here

[@Mr_Muda_Himself]

You know when you put it all together like this, I just realized our Simon is literally the best possible ending.

[@JakurtyKulgin]

Yes,He finally gets therapy! I think finn also should have therapy but looking at him im together again special,he's really obsessed to see jake again no matter how much it costs

[@badumba5511]

@@JakurtyKulgin Maybe Finn should on an adventure with his genderbend and cake to find closure like Simon did lel.

[@JakurtyKulgin]

@@badumba5511 um..do you think this actually good idea?especially for him who obsessed to see his beloved brother in dead world?

[@redactedunknownclowngod2875]

nahh, he's fine. he'll eventually get his closure and reincarnate into that chick from the comics

[@YikYakTikTak]

They really are the embodiment that relationships need more than just love to work. No matter how much Betty and Simon loved each other - and they REALLY did - it takes more than that to make a relationship work and last. And for them, it didn’t.

[@tarragoncake1556]

Agreed! It’s easy to idolize love as an all encompassing, world saving power, but it’s one piece to a whole. It may be the piece that glues all the other pieces together, but you need those other pieces to nurture and grow the relationship. That’s why when we get married we get the whole “in sickness and in health, for richer or poorer, in good times and bad” spiel. As soon as Simon and Betty’s love was put to the test cracks appeared. Betty’s inability to accept Simon’s altered self as the Ice King ultimately led to her summoning what would be her own demise. It’s difficult though, especially with how many different outlets push love being enough, to convey that true, healthy love is actually complex and in flux like an ocean, rather than simple and resolute like a statue.

[@junelaananke7138]

I would disagree with the notion that Betty folded. Often she volunteered to do things for Simon despite him either not being the one to suggest it, warning her against it or even just outright telling her no. When she came into the future and wanted to save him from death, she basically strongarmed him back into being Ice King. When he jokingly suggested she come on the expidition, she immediately took him seriously and offered to go. On that expedition, he told her to take the slow and steady path around the snakes and she immediately went against his advice and ran through. When she sacrificed herself in Golb, Simon actively tried to stop her but she pushed him out of Golb before he had the chance to. She left the note confessing her feelings right before she had to go. Despite him *wanting* to share credit for the Enchiridion and even insisting on it, she refuses. This is not to "blame" her, no one is at fault, but I think describing her as some lovesick puppy who went along with anything her celebrity crush said kind of dismisses a lot of her agency in the story and that a lot of what happened was a result of her action and his inaction. Their relationship wasn't healthy for either of them, and it's neither of their faults.

[@detectivebrown6211]

More like the relationship wasn't healthy for either of them and it's both their faults

[@arianacs1467]

Exactly my thoughts.

[@logicaloverdrive8197]

I know it's not the most important thing, but I still can't get over them revealing Simon and redefining the ice king as a character IN A FUCKING CHRISTMAS SPECIAL. That fucked with me as a kid and it still does now. Like imagine being the kid that missed that episode and then getting confused as the rest of the cast starts calling him Simon.

[@puzzledillusionist]

i grew up outside the US, we only had 3 episodes of adventure time airing and i loved them. i visited the US and stayed over at my cousin's for winter break, and had my mind blown by all the episodes i never saw and finally a commercial preview of the christmas special showing simon's reveal. it was many years later i got to see the episode, but at least i wasn't that kid by luck!

[@lillysteam187]

Likewise, I love how Simons entire relationship with Marceline came about because they threw in a silly clip of Ice King singing Marcie's fries song. After that, they had to think about HOW Ice King knew the song.

[@logicaloverdrive8197]

@@lillysteam187 You just think at first, "oh the goofy character is singing a goofy version of marcy's song! So funny!" But then you look at the greater lore and Stakes and realize he probably heard her sing that whenever they met up again while Marcy was vamp hunting

[@Jonathan_Collins]

Through all they went through in the main series + the fact I havent rewatched it in so long in a way I forgot they were actually in love once, and weren't always going through something crazy to get eachother back. It's good to see a genuine moment of their relationship.

[@SAMSung-fr4wd]

This show is so amazing

[@xavierjohnson2321]

They did better with Simon and Betty's relationship then I ever thought they would honestly.

[@tytheaniman497]

Literally the most tragic and saddening love story ever. I wish Simon could’ve been with Betty again, but it’s like she told him; Every decision he made led to that inevitability. If he had chose differently things would’ve been better for the both of them. But what’s most important now is that they both accept what has happened and lived their lives the best they can. Simon had to move on.

[@Outcastic]

I don't know about better. I'm pretty sure the vampire world is basically what would have happened had we gone the betty route.

[@prettyspectrum6371]

I think that's what's more tragic, maybe they would have a happy life ? Sure. But a lot of bad things would happen, there is no such a thing as a " true gold ending "

[@leoultimaupgraded9914]

I still think, in the after life, the two can be together again But I’m glad they get to live their lives apart for now, and experience new things

[@geardog24]

Let’s just hope that there is a alternate universe where Simon and Betty can be happy together.

[@MoonMoon-cl4co]

Got great news for you! In the comics Simon and Betty do get their happy ending! It’s not apart of the main timeline but it’s nice knowing In at least that universe it worked out! :D

[@pipino7240]

​@@MoonMoon-cl4cowhat title of the comic?

[@repulser93]

@@pipino7240Simon and Marcy

[@pipino7240]

@@repulser93 i dont see anywhere in google or youtube? just fanfics?

[@pipino7240]

@@beatofromuminekorealnotcli4574 I agree it's better for simon not to get what he wants it's better for him to move on. it's funny for me because he is the only main character of the show that never had what he wanted, well atleast maybe he is still happy withour her 😂

[@angrymushroom26]

The tragic thing, if Betty stayed with Ice king, worked with PB, Marcy, and Finn to look for a solution she might have actually succeeded. PB is a brilliant scientist, just like Simon and Betty were. They all looked in the wrong places. Sure PB has her own goals, but she is also a pretty good person and Simon is very important to Marcy. It could have been entirely possible for her to have found a way to keep the magic but not the madness like the Winter King but in a less morally gray way.

[@alexgroot2508]

Great breakdown! Another minor point in Simon's story in Fionna and Cake is that his time as Ice King is treated like an addiction/drug that he broke free of, but people around him don't see it that way. People say that he 'used to be awesome' as the Ice King. Cake's gut impression of Ice King is 'Fun guy' as opposed to the 'sad loser' Simon is now. Ice King was doing well in Ooo before he got his sanity back. He was, if not lucid, at least more or less a known - and often fun - factor of Ooo's social scape. And this kind of pushes Simon to think that maybe being the Ice King isn't just a 'noble sacrifice' for Fionna's world, but also something that a lot of people in Ooo might prefer. He could again be 'part of the madness' and isn't that better for everyone? Its a pretty compelling allegory to the struggle of recovering from addiction and/or the difference between you 'on your meds' or off them.

[@r.coachman3499]

THIS!!!👆 The parallels you made are DEFINITELY add another layer of a n g s t. The comments about Simon being “Fun and Awesome” AS Ice King-While Innocently Insensitive-make sense for Fionna and Cake to say, cos they have NO context for how deeply problematic that identity/time was for him. To have that from other people in Ooo? That was kind of a surprise to me! I dunno, to have someone say your past self, Under the Influence and Miserable, was BETTER to know than the Safer and Sober (but miserable in a different way) you now??? OOOF.

[@freddie7988]

“You were a wonderful experience.” “You were, everything.” I will never recover from this😭

[@mx9226]

I never would’ve thought true love could evolve into something that was toxic to the couple. I had forgotten about Betty’s moment with her past self during the Mars test, so the realization that her love for Simon was actually very unhealthy, even before the Ice Crown, hit me hard when watching Fionna and Cake.

[@clarisacalderon9555]

I think it gets even more interesting because simon thinks maybe if he had gone on the bus with her instead things could have changed...but betty on mars felt the only way she wouldnt have made the decisions she did was to have not met him...which makes me think about how she kept putting off her trip instead of just asking him to come with her...which he honestly probably would have been happy to do.... like fiona asked him if he got on the bus which re responded no...but thats also from a logic perspective sice he didnt have a ticket..even if he had gotten on that bus he probably wouldnt have been able to go on that plan with her. though I wish they had brought up that he could have caught a ticket and joined her later or even just that when she returned that he would be waiting where they could call eachother on the phone or laters or something since her trip wasnt going to be forever...just like how yes she put off her trip...but she had always thought she'd have time to go on the trip at some other point which IS reasonable. though it also gets interesting because he didnt even really invite her on his trip. he semi joked a bit on a hypoethtical that SHE took and ran with to go on that trip with him which he just went along with. she had a impact on him definitly but he was going to keep things professional until he saw her note and gave her what he thought she wanted because thats what she said she wanted...uninteionally coping betty in not picking up the nuance of that not exactly being what she had meant in her offer. It also gets kindof interesting because what if she hadnt jumped through the time portal? would she have died in the mushroom war? would she have been able to stop him from continuing to wear the crown? helped raise betty together? arguably without the crown the vampires would have taken over without marceline who was raised by the simon who had been protected by the crown but we also don't know if betty was in that timeline... but I always thought it was interesting that yes betty went to see her normal simon in the future and tried to reasure him unaware he was dying...but she also left behind teh simon who went nuts and needed her in the past...leaving him alone to suffer alot due to her habit of not waiting for full context...though arguable her jumping for what she wanted without thinking things through that much had gotten her what she wanted...simon...but also unintentional she hadnt realized the stuff she missed out on by jumping so quickly at things...like her trip or her sanity.

[@mariotuber2866]

Jimmy and Kim's relationship from Better Call Saul is another decent example of that

[@fridalig7283]

I think the big reason Simon didn't clock Betty's obsession with him is that at their discussion, she showed investment in his book and a career in a topic that would greatly amplify his research like petroglyphs and ancient languages, so he sees her excitement and goes, "Ah! A fellow research enthusiast!" He sees her rabid enthusiasm as being for the discoveries they are making together and not exactly as being for himself. He thought they were both in love and just on the same brainwave that of course she would want to search for the enchiridion! She read my book and came up with theories for how to find things and jumped at the chance to join my expedition; Wow! She must love this stuff as much as I do! And then he put on his blinders to everything else and she never corrected his incorrect line of logic.

[@lyxandrast0ttr0n1x8]

Yeah that’s what I thought too. He never thought that she’d want to do anything other than help him in his goals because he assumed that she was as enthusiastic about those goals as he was.

[@clarisacalderon9555]

true..and everytime he felt something was off or tried to course correct or slow down SHE would insist saying what she wants. and she never sa it as a sacrifice at that time because it WAS what she wanted to some degree and she planned to make time for her other stuff later...which just..never got a chance due to iceking and the war getting in the way...and simon would assume she knows what she wants and gives it to her without understanding that betty could be wrong or be she might not be realizing what she might need.

[@prettyspectrum6371]

Their lovestory can only be summarized as tragic. Even if Simon decided to not search for the crown to appease Beth, the world would go to shit. Him putting the crown from a second, as a joke, settled his fate And Betty, i feel like her love to Simon blinded her. She saw there was problems but she was happy, so she let it slide. She didnt regret anything but just said " we could've made better choices ". She was too far gone, the finish line was more close than to go back and give up on Simon, she couldn't handle seeing her hardwork be useless. This shows that too much of a good thing becomes bad, even love

[@poenpotzu2865]

It also seems interesting that some people interpreted Ice King as a form of dementia, slowly watching someone you love age and turn into someone else who can barely remember who they even were. Especially scenes where marceline feels really conflicted seeing Ice King in that state.

[@jeremy1860]

This is just one of those couples that, once you first learn about, you just keep telling yourself you want to see them together. To try and overcome all the terrible things that come along the way to prevent it. And that need just sort of overrides the part of your brain that helps you recognise the problems there'd be with it. That's what makes the whole thing fascinating to me. There's genuine love, but also genuine flaws to all of it, and I'm struggling to think of another fictional relationship that struck that balance as well as this 😊

[@Lylactal]

Basically modern shakespear characters

[@mesiagamer5217]

Romeo and Juliet.

[@11mcglothlincr]

I also like the touch of the story he plays with the Casper character was inspired directly by himself. You can see the little girl at the end drawing the characters in her notepad, and we know that Beth and shermy are the future not another dimension. So Betty sent him to learn a lesson he taught himself in a circular loop.

[@con.x]

This reminds me too much of me and my late wife. This story of Simon and Betty and their codependency, and the last moment of ... "you were a great experience" ... its a sentiment that I feel so much in the Grief of losing her. I would do anything for her when she was alive, id sacrifice myself in an instant to get her back, but watching this... I have to think... isn't this end, isn't our story, exactly the contents of our choices. And... maybe its bad, maybe its good, maybe its both, but if nothing else ... it was ours. And I have to keep telling myself, "She was a great experience", I am so terribly alone now. And it feels so hopeless, and aimless. But, I have to think like Simon, I am worthy of my own life. And I should try to keep being, Betty would want it that way, and she would want me to see it that way. We had our moment. And that moment is over. I have to love that I got that, and see the next moment in my life.

[@logandelacruz2152]

I’ve heard people say that the part where Simon sees his mistakes to be irrelevant to an extent because we already saw Betty come to the conclusion of how flawed their relationship was, but Simon didn’t come to that realization yet. Now he got to do that, allowing him to let Betty go, like she let him go when she fused with Golb.

[@kat4665]

i never picked up on how passive-aggressive simon was at 7:27 i can’t stop laughing 😭😭

[@mesiagamer5217]

A truly loving cupule that got lost in that love without realizing it until it was way to late.

[@andyfranclark5295]

It’s very unfortunate what happen but I’m glad that Simon and Betty at least got to say goodbye to each other in a way and had some comfort. Also, I just realize some thing when I watched episode nine of Fiona and cake remember how the litch got into that weird tetris shape does that mean all of the tetris blocks are alternate versions of him? I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one thinking that. This was a great show, though either way in my opinion.

[@MissileGT]

I always find so heartbreaking how for a little while, it looked like there was the possibility of crazy Betty/Magic Woman accepting the Ice King and liking him, and both being together in their madness, but happy. But she refused it, because she can't just let go of Simon, which leads to her downfall. It makes me so sad, because the interactions between the Ice King and Magic Woman were pretty fun and kinda cute.

[@anthonybanjak1000]

"So she does what any good partner would do and ignore his wishes" 😂 That one made me laugh

[@pumkin610]

Aw I didn't realize that it was a joke lol, I was like yeah I guess saving him is the right thing

[@КатяКалинина-х6м]

This joke with double meaning to me. Because the second thought is that Betty really ignoring everyone, even her boyfriend.

[@matthewjanack1124]

What I love about it is Betty and Simon are both equally to blame, they’re both flawed and they portray it so well

[@ampersan3]

After Finn got his epiphany with Together Again, I'm glad that Simon and Betty now got theirs too. Finn and Simon both realized that there's still plenty of things to live for, not just with Jake and Betty respectively. I just wished that Marceline had a lot more screentime with Simon, and I just realized how Marcy and Betty never really had the chance to share a scene together in the original show.

[@nomnom137]

Betty: We couldve made better choices, but…I don’t have any regrets. When you think about it, an alternative that could’ve happened, had Betty let Simon die as he wanted after Bella Noche absorbed his magic, Betty couldve lived her normal life and then potentially reunite with Simon in the dead world, similar to Tree Trunks and Mr Pig in together again. (She had no idea this was a possibility though) That’s just one alternative that couldve happened. But now Betty is seemingly trapped being a multiversal god with almost no chance of being with Simon. And Simon basically has no choice but to accept the situation and move on. This story is just so tragic, in a beautiful way, don’t get me wrong. 😢

[@Andrea-rc1gz]

Also correct me if I’m wrong but because Betty is a god now the line “you were an amazing experience” and Simon saying “you were everything” shows that because Betty is a god now Simon is just an experience to her even though she still cares about him as Golb she isn’t really Betty anymore

[@SilverSieg]

a few corrections that dont mean much The Hunters soup that Farmworld finn makes isnt actually filthy by any means. Its a very commonplace thing to have a forever stew running and as long as its sufficiently cleared out by patrons and the broth stays boiling itll stay fairly clean, at least for an apocolypse, Simon was a Graduate student! Not a teacher! Still referred to by their docterate, Still able to give lectures and much closer in age to betty as she was also going on expeditions! This is also obvious as they both have a professor in the room- and the class clearly dismesses his work... something you obviously wouldnt do to somebody youre actively learning from.

[@Wud-f2r]

I presumed he was a professor - he is published after all - giving a guest lecture. Young but no longer a student. He would be going on expeditions that he would define and set up, with his own goals, whereas Betty as a grad student was accepted to go along on a different expedition, but was not in charge of it.

[@0PlaylistMaker0]

An absolutely excellent analysis! Seriously I agree with everything you wrote, I think this is why Simon X Betty is such a FASCINATING pairing with a great resolution. One interpretation which I think lends a lot to this... Is it's implied that the book/game Simon played was one he wrote *to himself* in a stable time loop situation. showing he really did internalize the message.

[@WatcherXel]

The scary thing about love, from what I have noticed thanks to both my own experience and the media, is that more often than not it’s a path filled with bumps and a lot of red flags that people choose to ignore. More often than not it’s also really problematic, if you look at it under a microscope. But once you realize that not everything needs to be put apart and deciphered, it works. Sometimes things just work, even through pain and problems.

[@Blank-vp6ep]

I haven't seen anyone mention it, but when Simon and Betty first get together in the actual flashback, Simon places Betty on the step below that one he's standing on after they hug. But during the Golbetty vision version of the flashback, after Simon says they should go to the outback together and they hug again, Betty is placed on the same step as Simon, the same level. I'm not entirely sure that it's intentional but it feels intentional regardless, one because of how fitting it is and two because Adventure Time has always done small details like this.

[@Cth-kn9]

I believe they’re relationship is a metaphor on how strong true love is and how much it takes to stop it. It takes apocalypse after apocalypse, chaos gods and beings of pure evil, gods that manage gods, vampires crowns of ice and terror. But still deep within golb there is Betty who still loves Simon. It’s honestly beautiful

[@TheOddityFair]

These 2 are in love. Deeply. However, that love is not healthy. They have no identity outside of each other, but in very different ways. Betty is living every fangirls dream of dating her idol, while Simon is the average joe basking in the glow of dating a genius. Both put themselves down & raise the other up on a 1000 meter high pedestal. To use a Steven Universe analogy, Simon & Betty would be the type of fusion that would straight up deny they were ever separate individuals. They wouldn’t even care to remember their individual names. The idea of being separated would be horrifying to them. That. Is. Bad.

[@seokbam]

I NOTICE THIS SAME THING TOO aaaaa as I was watching the video, Betty & Simon reminded me a lot to ruby & sapphire as Garnet but in a more realistic context. I really love how the writers were so brilliant to both show all the love they have for each other but also to show their biggest flaws: being 2 dorks who are completely in love to the point it blind both of them in being willing to sacrifice anything to be with one another. Even if it sounds romantic in paper, in real life this is unconsciously super toxic to both of them so the tragically best thing to do for both, was moving on. It hurt me to the core watching these two really being truly in love but then fall apart, but when I process it the most, indeed it was too much needed for them so they could finally get their own identities & individual paths back. This in parallel to Ruby and Sapphire's relationship as Garnet, was the most sane choice to go for. Ruby & Sapphire are an idealization that could only work in their own world. The Rose' background breakdown was a really wasted opportunity to have them having a serious conversation on how their relationship has REALLY been in all these years instead of the fantasy they have been living to that point. In short, If the writers would have put Simon and Betty back together, it would have been an awful ending to the construction of the lesson they tried to left on the viewer (just how Rebecca unconsciously did with Garnet) so they REALLY did an amazing artistic decision. Garnet it's a Fantasy, Simon & Betty's ending was HORRIBLY TRAGIC but real, and I appreciate that a lot.

[@TheOddityFair]

@@seokbam I also like how their song reflects this. “You got your dreams, I got everything in you… I believe in you more than I ever believed in me… Maybe this is killin part of me, but it ain’t called ‘love’ w/o a little tragedy…” While the lyrics fit Betty to a T, they also suite Simon. He believed that they shared the same dream in every way. (While this wasn’t true, what matters is that Simon thought it was.) Betty saw herself as a supporting character in Simon’s life. While Simon did see them as equals, he also saw Betty as the really special genius between the 2. In his mind, he was just a normal guy who was lucky to bask in her greatness. Tragic. Betty put it best. In the end, they “made their choices… They could’ve made better ones.” Still, they both never stopped viewing each other as anything less than marvelous. Tragic.

[@seokbam]

@@TheOddityFair Betty you'll always be remembered as the best ride or die ever :ccc Simon and you were too perfect together that world just couldn't handle it at all and made stuff happen,,,

[@detectivebrown6211]

The parasocial relationship she had with simon was foreshadowing 😬

[@GiulianaBruna]

Being in a relationship, is so easy to stop improving as a person. It's not that you love someone too much, is that love can distract you from life when you can spend a whole week staring into each other's mind. Your identity starts merging and you see yourself as "this person's partner" instead of a whole person.

[@3k0o_x]

Seeing the impact of simon existence on the world makes me believe that he's a catalyst comet, also i really loved this video, it's very well written and was fun to watch :)

[@JohnathanFallSeasonGuy]

34:08 not gonna lie, I laughed at the image of Smiling Simon with several Red Flags literally going over his head 😂

[@TikaaniSpirit]

I was worried that they would get the "happy ending" with Betty returning to normal. Glad they didn't cause it would just undermine the lesson they wanted to show. Also it was interesting to show an unintentional toxic relationship or how two good people can fall into toxic dynamic. It doesn't mean they're bad people, just human with faults that lead to a bad dynamic but could've changed for the better if they made different choices. In the end of the day we are just the sum of our choices. Nothing more, nothing less.

[@ap7635]

Honestly if the worst part of a relationship is one person being a bit too willing to go along with the other's choices while the other doesn't notice, that's still a pretty great relationship. We've seen how toxic PB and Marcy's relationship got at one point and they still ended up a perfect couple after they both had some character growth. Compared to that the problems with this relationship seem trivial. It's something that they could, and I think would have resolved if they had more time together. All that really needed to happen was for Betty to be more assertive at least once or for Simon to notice her lack of assertiveness at least once. They both care about each other enough that I think if they'd realized the problem they both would've actively tried to fix it.

[@featherguardian6023]

This Truly is One of the Most Tragic Romances in Many Media, it’s not that they’re Toxic, Far From It, It’s One of those Relationships that maybe it was for the Best to Left Each Other Go before it was Too Late, but Sadly That’s Not how the Story Go or how Life Goes, Sometimes when you Love Something So Much You have to Let Go.

[@detectivebrown6211]

It doesn't need to be abusive to be toxic. And it was definitely toxic

[@TheLordmep]

To support the comet theory, Betty called Simon an experience. Let's not pretend that she's Betty anymore. She's Golbetty, an entity that even gods are wary of. Simon is her last connection to humanity, and once she moves on from him, she's ready to become something entirely new. Although, my idea is that Golb is the source of the catalyst comets. He's not simply evil, but chaos, which is neutral. He exits to make change, and now that he is Golbetty, she is ready to take that to the next level.

[@lwandomadikizela2213]

Simon's and Betty's love story was beautiful and yet brutal in the end. Two lovers who wants to put each other over while losing their dignity. Simon in the end had to let her go to find happiness for himself while enjoying the time he had with her. It's about letting go of the past just to have a better future and yes it hurts however it helps to build a better character in the future.

[@thatguy2920]

I think I figured out what happened to Betty with that end credit scene. With it being a apple, we’ve seen apples being a significance a couple times in the series. Off the top of my head: 1-crystal apple, which sent tree trucks to another dimension 2-Finn’s perfect cut, when he cut a apple with his cursed sword for treetrucks 3-when Finn manifested his psychic arm, a apple was cut and picked up when he was using his arm to summon things to build his tower. I think what the writers were going for, was that simons and Betty’s story is finally wrapped up. She has been sent to a new dimension, or in this case, has let go and passed away. Having a cursed fate being fused with the being of chaos, she went through hell for Simon. I think she reincarnated as that butterfly, just like Finn did when he first landed on earth as the comet. It makes sense why she didn’t wait for Simon like Finn wanted Jake to when he died. As she said “Simon was a experience” and that experience is over.

[@fka_sophrosyne]

I’m so happy we got to spend as much time with Simon as we did in Fionna and Cake. It makes it just a little tougher to watch Ice King be…Ice King…

[@sethmccutcheon9296]

anybody ever thought about the fact that Ice King is especially obsessed with PB because she’s the closest thing to Betty in Ooo

[@Connie_TinuityError]

yes I have, it's always resonated with me

[@Diamond_Squid]

"I cannot live with you, or without you. A Mutual Co-dependency. In other words, a Paradox. In other words, Nonsense."

[@faeisart]

Their relationship is the embodiment of that meme: "I can fix him!" *Says woman who's worse*

[@holysnowman2126]

Between me finishing Fionna and Cake and discovering this channel about an hour ago, this upload has the most perfect timing

[@ch1ppychipp]

(19:41) "This man was never gonna give her up-" That sent shivers down my spine.

[@pankreas2195]

I don't get why some fans interpret Betty as Simon's "victim" when everything that happened to her was because of her choices. She jumped in the portal, she sought the madness of magic, she summoned golb, she sacrificed herself and fused with him. Granted, she didn't know the awful consequences each of these actions would lead to, but she never really stopped to ponder. She was the antagonist in her own story. That's why Fionna and Cake's ending is so great. They finally understood how their relationship derailed, and it wasn't because of a magic crown. As she herself says: "We both made our choices, but I don't have any regrets."

[@pumkin610]

They probably see her as some sort of victim because 1. People think the power dynamic is unbalanced in Simon's favor due to him giving a lecture. 2. Her commitment seems like an obsession since she's the one who takes actions quickly, by comparisson this makes simon look less emotionally attached. If her attachment is seen as an obsession by the audience then it brings into question if she even has a choice. 3. She is a woman and he is a man. It may seem like a shallow point but people have learned stuff over time that makes them think about men and women differently. Solely based on gender, who is more likely to be seen as a helpless victim? Who is the one more likely to be seen as in control? And the "she sacrificed her plans" thing I guess. He didn't sacrifice his plans.

[@КатяКалинина-х6м]

Humor me, but i see Simon as Betty's victim.

[@Pokepants]

Another thing to note with the bus scene is that the first time when Betty stays with Simon, their spin hug lands Betty on the step under Simon. The second time when he goes with her, she lands on equal ground. It's such a small thing to differentiate the two scenes and it makes me happy.

[@nextombz]

The fact Betty just fucking punched a strong anti magic creature after all the wizards struggled to defeat her😭

[@hungcuong606]

Anti magic not anti fist

[@DrawciaGleam02]

Yeah, same here! I was laughing and going "You go girl!"

[@nickick8498]

18:30 A Tom Kenny-voiced character perfectly portraying the state of another Tom Kenny character.

[@meteor9573]

Something I noticed and I don't know if it is an intentional parallel or not is how Gary and Marshall Lee have a "balanced version" of the sacrifical trait of Simon x Betty. Like, Marshall sacrificed his freedom for Gary, and then Gary sacrificed his opportunity to boost his career for Marshall. Both of them sacrificed something for each other, instead of only one of them giving their whole life to the other. And then, they were able to find a middle ground where both of them got what they wanted in the end, as we see in the ending. Just an interesting detail that's been on my mind for a while.

[@ionlycreatedthissothatican6859]

Between Simon and Betty's extremely loving yet ultimately unhealthy relationship and Finn and HW's mature and respectful non-label relationship, AT really proving itself as the goat of non conventional relationships

[@misterzygarde6431]

Given that Simon eventually realized that his and Betty’s relationship wasn’t the most healthy, it makes me wonder what he’d do if he did manage to undo GOLBetty like in the now non-canon Marcy and Simon comic.

[@SarahSchreck]

Their relationship is such an incredible lesson for grownup viewers, as we all encounter/have encountered long-term relationships where we've had to make sacrifices for our significant others. It's so important to make sacrifices consciously, and to always identify when your SO is making sacrifices as well, no matter how willingly. What an amazing message (among the many) to weave into this show!!

[@MariAnimates]

My heart breaks for Simon and Betty. They gave up everything for each other, sanity, mind, body, freedom, and it wasn't enough. True love wasn't enough to save them. At least now they are free, apart but free. Betty can do any and everything she wants. Simon finally has his peace and his sanity. Betty knowing of and idolizing Simon made me insane

[@DeathKitta]

I keep seeing the 'they loved each other but werent good for each other' and like. No? I am sure they would have figured it out eventually. But then they had to do all these crazy life changing magical decisions, so it went out of control.

[@flawedandnotperfect]

Simon really needed love in his life

[@auburneytuckerson2959]

People in F&C forget that without Betty, Simon doesn't know who he is, either. They were each other's halves. They are, as they say, "two halves of a whole idiot."

[@thenerdbeast7375]

Actually the soup thing used to be a real thing some people would do, like on ships and such. Keep the pot going and drop new ingredients every day to always have enough to feed the crew. Catch a fish? Caught a sea gull? Found an extra bag of potatoes in the hold? All go in the pot!

[@shadowprincess3724]

Apparently there are a few perpetual stews still kicking around out there.

[@zombie100395]

Great explanation! Their love is bittersweet but as they said a good experience. Betty and Simon's song was especially true to their relationship.

[@greeninferno1339]

This is an amazing narrative breakdown essay! Be proud!

[@CallMeSaltyScorpion]

Simon went insane protecting Betty, once he got his sanity back he was forced back into insanity that drove Betty into insanity trying to save him, she succeeded of course, eventually, but that was by dooming herself to eternal damnation. And that drove Simon to near insanity trying to bring her back like she once did for him, but she's tired, she doesn't care about her own existence anymore, as long as Simon is free she is content. But he isn't, not until the end where GOLBetty says NOTHING to him, where she barely acknowledges his existence. He can finally let go. Madness & Sadness baby, Madness & Sadness.

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

They both deserved better 😢😢😢😢😢

[@joganesha4151]

This is on of, if not THE most emotional performance TOM KENNY has ever done. Idk if I want more cuz it makes me cry

[@DrawciaGleam02]

Tom Kenny himself said as such. 🙂

[@thehistoryandbooknerd8979]

At the time this episode came out, I wondered why Marcy didn’t just turn the two of them into vampires after Betty leapt through the portal…. though we wouldn’t have the utter tragedy or the moving story if she had, though I really like fluff and seeing everyone happily drinking red together (she could teach them to be like her and not drink blood - vamps in Adventure Time can just drink the color red out of things and they’re good) in a fanfic setting makes me happy - plus with all of the multiverses, maybe in one of them it did happen ❤

[@Andrea-rc1gz]

Well Betty did rush in without acknowledging anyone so she didn’t have time to think about it before she left. Also the stakes mini series talks about how being a immortal is it’s own existential crisis. Marceline probably didn’t want to subject Simon to that without him asking first.

[@thehistoryandbooknerd8979]

@@Andrea-rc1gz that’s completely fair, thus AU and fanfic

[@jamzee_]

What i find interesting with simon is that he really is a depiction of dementia. A senile old man who lost something but still desires it, he’s a good representation of what happens when the mind loses itself. He still always wanted betty, he always held onto the simplest of memory. His fiancé. Though the memory diminished, the thoughts erratic, and his mannerisms brash and rude, he always was himself. And when he became simon again, it’s almost a character study on what someone who had dementia would feel about their prior situation.

[@jinnsaint1358]

Betty didn’t send Simon at the end to another dimension, she sent him in to the future. Future, where Astrid (girl obsessed with Fionna&Cake) made a story of Casper and Nova, which written after Simon shared their story with her at the end, so it was kinda in the loop. I didn’t get initially why Betty was so chill, saying her goodbye, but I guess existing outside of time and space and seeing your relationship unfold in every possible way with every mistake laid out in front of you does bring some perspective.

[@Nortrodamas]

In a weird way, Simon could have "hopped on the bus" and merged with glob as well and be with Betty together in soul and mind.

[@detectivebrown6211]

But that's not the right thing to do. That's beyond toxic to view that as romantic. No one should sacrifice themselves over a lost cause

[@Nortrodamas]

@@detectivebrown6211 Congratulations! You discovered that both Simon and Betty don’t give a shit about “that’s not the right thing to do”. And let’s not forget these two have ALWAYS been beyond toxic for each other in their relationship. Clearly you never watched the series before and most likely been only scrolling on 1 min lore vines on KZbin and TikTok because they both did the whole sacrifice themselves for a lost cause shtick.

[@detectivebrown6211]

@@Nortrodamas what are you talking about 💀 and why are you taking this as a personal attack 💀 all I'm saying is its not meant to be cute or something to aspire to. Their tale isn't a romantic one it's a cautionary one idk why you got so mad 💀

[@Nortrodamas]

@@detectivebrown6211 I misunderstood your comment and thought you were someone new to the series and wanted to be on some moral high horse on the character choices. I deeply care about the lore of series that I enjoy and I did take it as personal attack and I want to apologize for that.

[@detectivebrown6211]

@@Nortrodamas it's okay. I was just scrolling through comments and see people call what Betty did as wife goals when they shouldn't romanticize self destructive behaviors.

[@daralic2255]

Betty is a cautionary example of dating someone you idolize or a fan dating their parasocial person.

[@brianbarajas2948]

Nah they actually dated and had time to know and like each other. This assumes that their relationship is only based off her obsession with simon before they got together. She even mentions that she liked him as a scholar but knowing him personally is what led her to want more with him. I see what you were going with but i dont feel that's the theme of simpn and betty

[@detectivebrown6211]

Yes she always seemed more obsessed with him and it all fell from there.

[@mesiagamer5217]

@@brianbarajas2948 It doesn't exactly change the toxic issue at the heart of their relationships. Betty thought of Simon as her superior academically and was eager to make him happy at all costs. Simon never saw that and thought they were equals an doing what he thought making her happy reinforcing that dynamic. The first and likely most notable example is the Enchiridion. he wanted that to be their moment though when she pushed it to be his he went along with it and let it happen.

[@ReKuma11037]

The idea of Simon bathing in Betty's Dirty Girl Soup is now loving in my head rent free

[@connormclernon26]

It’s interesting to see the depiction of a relationship that’s unhealthy without it being abusive

[@aster1760]

Small tiny sub note, but it is real adorable that across the multiverse, HW and Fin tend to end up togeather in the end.

[@christinefarrell6438]

What gets me about them is that there's no real version of this relationship that ends well. If Simon never puts on the crown, they probably both die in the Mushroom War or the chaos that followed. If Simon went with Betty or they decided to pick up their relationship after she got back from her trip, the same thing. If she never jumps through time, SHE still dies in the Mushroom War and Simon is probably Ice King forever. Simon stops the bomb and we get Farm World. And so on and so on. They love each other, and they can never, ever make it work.

[@missing_name]

Wow, when it’s laid out like that, it’s so sad. Truly a tragedy

[@SonaLovesick]

every version of ooo we see in fionna and cake is exactly this "besides baby world" Simon never wears the crown Vampires take over with both of them dead, She never time travels Simon loses Marcy from guilt and gives madness and sadness to Bonnie. This is the only way they could exist. This is it. The whole show was basically the plot of A Christmas Carol. he sees what could have been, past present and future.

[@christinefarrell6438]

@@SonaLovesick I was under the impression that VK killed him (he's got vampire bite marks) and took the crown from him but your point still stands. And heck, even in baby world, there's a baby IK.

[@Frickll]

The thing for ma about the ice Marcy is that she has her axe bass. Something march didn’t receive until at least her teens. Meaning that winter kings Marcy didn’t die as a child. He just brought her back as one because that’s what he thought of when she came to mind, the little girl he raised. But she was likely already an adult when she passed in that universe.

[@randobrando]

you mean to tell me that all Simon had to do was tell Betty it was his turn to help and force her along with him out of Golb with that recharged crown (which iirc was still charged when it got out), make the wish right after getting out, and _then_ go on to live their lives?? lordy loo, no wonder everyone got attached to him, so much flew over his head

[@turtswing]

Simon and Betty were so in love with each other that it blinded them. A toxic relationship where neither partner was awful. They just wanted a happy life together, but completely missed their codependency that was leading the bond to ruin. And that's what makes their story beautifully tragic.

[@itsaUSBline]

I think it's actually kind of makes sense that he doesn't want to burden Marceline. He's basically her father figure and so he probably feels like that would be like trauma dumping onto his kid, which is a messed up thing to do. Of course, Marceline isn't a kid anymore, but still, they still kind of have that dynamic. I think it's ultimately healthier that he seeks actual therapy instead of leaning on her for support.

[@anastasia_852]

27:00 "He would bathe in it" Out of EVERYTHING ELSE in this video why on earth did that make me wheeze

[@turq99]

It’s a powerful love story that shows the strong potential in trying to fight the odd to be with someone and yet, what can happen when the risks of pursuing it get too great :(

[@rexbeisel2802]

This is quite literally the perfect video detailing these two. Every major point was hit, and explained so that anyone could see the importance of these targeted moments. Great job!

[@g00n742]

I think it’s implied Betty was just a fan of his work and had gone to his lecture instead of being her teacher. She did idolize him though ofc. Also it would be super super weird if Betty is a college student causeeee like….Simon was 40 when he met Betty. So yeah I think Betty is more than likely in her late 30s and just was a fan of Simon and decided to go to his lecture.

[@detectivebrown6211]

The way she was written supports she wasn't that old. Like how she flirts. It's too much like a young adult

[@Takejiro24]

And....I'm starting to realize AT's possible propensity to age gap relationships.

[@thahirshibu5042]

"all game and no-pull out brother" Has got to be the most out of pocket thing I've ever heard someone describe Jake

[@XoraNo13]

"The power of these hands." Ah yes, the only way to beat a being of pure anti magic is with non magic means.

[@Wooooooo123]

Idk if someone already pointed this out but in the spanish dub of fionna and cake, this part 37:45 actually says “nocheosfera” which translates to “nightosphere”

[@Squeam9750]

You know all this wouldn't happen if they just called Uncle Grandpa 😭😭😭