Beyond Solitaire Podcast 180: Paul Wright and Liz Davidson on Foxes & Lions

[@kristoforogledhill7537]

I am definitely in the market for Foxes & Lions. I was wary of the early COIN games; but Vijayanagara has convinced me that it is possible to do deep historical narrative with a light touch! I am an old-timer who remembers Avalon Hill's Machiavelli (1977) I used to get excited about role--playing a petty potentate and seeing the different coats of arms macrh across the boot of Italy ; I do hope we'll have that visual reference again (as with Kingmaker / Plantagenet).

[@PaulusPol5]

We definitely are looking to be more on the ICS side of things. In COIN terms, our complexity is somewhere between Cuba Libre and Fire in the Lake (or Pendragon). More on the lighter end of that spectrum. I too remember (and still own) the Machiavelli of yore. It was definitely an inspiration. That old classic had larger games with some players taking on the European great powers as opposed to the Italian states. We put the emphasis on the five Italian states that Machiavelli and others highlighted (Florence, Venice, Milan, Naples, and the Papal States). The great powers will be there, and the players' temptation will be to invite them in with thoughts of manipulating the great powers to their own ends. Of course, the risk is that you bring disaster to Italy. I can't recall if I emphasized this in the podcast, but there is a collective defeat option (à la another classic, Republic of Rome). Too many outside powers dominating the peninsula and everyone can lose. We're still figuring out the metrics of that.

[@kevinbertram4828]

This game sounds amazing!

[@PaulusPol5]

Thanks so much, Kevin. Look forward to you seeing it at Circle DC (my favorite con of late). Love your company's games too.

[@cardboardconflicts]

Oh man armies that refuse to fight without pay!!! “Point d'argent, point de Suisse”. Part of this especially in the later part you had leaders refusing to pay and armies looting to survive. Really REALLY looking forward to this!!!!

[@PaulusPol5]

Thank you for mentioning looting (what we call sacking in the game terms). That will occasionally be a problem too. More regularly keeping your condottieri captains happy and well-paid will be the headache, especially when others can bid them to stand down or switch sides.

[@ArnoVdVelde]

Been keen to hear more about this. I do hope it will be coin inspired, and not straight up a coin game. Oh no! I heard ops sheets!

[@PaulusPol5]

It has menus for actions, so in that sense has COIN/ICS DNA (is that enough acronyms?). That said, we want the menus (which include Orders and Deceits) to be easy enough to use. I wouldn't call it a COIN per se. More in the ICS vein or something comparable.