TBS Westminster Reference Bible KJV

The Westminster Reference Bible was the Trinitarian Bible Society's replacement for their version of the Concord. It expanded on the Concord's references to provide 200,000 contextual cross-references, making it one the best reference Bibles on the market. I reviewed the original soon after it was released. It was previously made by Royal Jongbloed but has now moved to PrintCorp to reduce production costs. The Westminster is available in hardcover and calfskin. I'm reviewing model 90/UBK, black calfskin ISBN: 9781862281684, made in Belarus by PrintCorp.
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Trinitarian Bible Society provided this Bible in exchange for an honest review.

[@SoldierofChrist9]

Now, if there could be a Ruckman Reference Bible with the four column layout and 10-12pt comfort print... oh how glorious!

[@Afellowsheep92]

Just ordered this Bible and excited to use it! Thank you bible buying guide for posting this

[@BibleBuyingGuide]

Thanks Martin. Please let us know how you like it.

[@koc118]

Hi Randy, Great review! The large print edition also doesn't contain The Translators To The Reader. I recently replaced my older Jongbloed edition with the newer, Printcorp edition. I like the whiter paper a lot but I (like you) wish the font was slightly darker and it would be good if the cover was reinforced. Other than that, I love the new edition. I hope they stay with Printcorp so they can keep the price down and more people can afford it. Better yet, I wish they would start offering their Bibles in something like the "Leathersoft" that Thomas Nelson uses. It holds up REALLY well and looks great.

[@magicsysrq8453]

I have a copy of this Westminster printed in Belarus. The quality of the paper and the binding could be better but it is not bad. It's trying to strike a balance. The layout of the text block is wonderful. All reference Bibles should use a 4-column design in a verse-by-verse layout to help you find references quicker. Having them at the bottom like many other publishers do and trying to find verses in a paragraph format is much harder. I wouldn't mind if the the old-fashioned chapter summaries were replaced with subject headings instead. Those have the benefit of breaking up long-running text. Then there wouldn't be a need for running titles at the top of the page either. The table of weights and measures in the back is really detailed. Every Bible should include one of these. The pronunciation guide is also nice. The maps are good. I'm skeptical about the need to bundle any other tools in Bibles these days. I'd rather have thicker paper instead of this 130-page concordance for example.

[@eclipsesonic]

Even though I have the large print Calfskin edition (which I love), I ended up ordering this medium-sized edition, because not only is it easier to take to church (due to its lighter weight), it also has the concordance and the translators to the readers, both of which are lacking in the large print edition, so if I need to make reference to any of those two things in Church, then I'm all equipped!

[@faithtowalkministries132]

Another great review brother! I was wondering if it had the quality that Royal Jongbloed did.

[@BibleBuyingGuide]

Thanks brother!

[@einarengemoen2486]

Wonderful Bible, and good review as always.

[@BibleBuyingGuide]

Thank you!

[@llewellynbehrens8505]

Hi Randy, thanks for this video. I actually have one of these (Netherlands) produced, but over time I've found the layout too busy when just reading and not studying. Could you recommend a more modern layout KJV (premium) and perhaps still has archaic word translations w/out references or references at the bottom?

[@BibleBuyingGuide]

Hi! My favorites are the Treveris by Schuyler, and the Personal Size New Cambridge Paragraph Bible and Clarion from Cambridge. All three are paragraph editions. The Clarion has references, but I find them easy to ignore.

[@llewellynbehrens8505]

@@BibleBuyingGuide Thanks for those recommendations Randy, I think I'll be leaning more towards the New Cambridge Paragraph as its already one in my wishlist and I like story behind it.

[@super60sand70s]

Another great review!

[@BibleBuyingGuide]

Thank you!

[@DrGero15]

My favorite bible. What is the Thomas Nelson with more word updates you were talking about?

[@BibleBuyingGuide]

The reference editions. For example, the Maclaren, Sovereign, and Giant Print Center Column Reference Premier Collection.

[@DrGero15]

@@BibleBuyingGuide Are there any differences in the content of those?

[@BibleBuyingGuide]

@@DrGero15 the Maclaren has 60k references and maps in the back. The Sovereign and giant print have a lot fewer references, with the Sovereign having slightly fewer than the giant print. The Sovereign's concordance is slightly larger. Both have the same book introductions. They all have the same maps. All three have the same footnotes. The giant print doesn't include section headings, while the other two have the same section headings.

[@BibleBuyingGuide]

@@DrGero15 only what I mentioned here.

[@DrGero15]

@@BibleBuyingGuide Do the compact and large print Maclarens have the same content inside?

[@traydex369]

reminds me of the Thompson chain. Does this bible have the most refences out there? Besides the Thompson chain Randy?

[@BibleBuyingGuide]

Yes, it does. It has 200,000. The Thompson is next with 100,000.

[@farlowalexify]

I have the original version both regular and the other one with metric psalms from Netherlands by Jongbloed

[@BibleBuyingGuide]

I've wanted the Metrical Psalms since it was released, but I never got it. Now it's discontinued. Maybe one day.

[@farlowalexify]

@@BibleBuyingGuide Didn’t know that it was discontinued interesting I’m surprised that it was not popular enough to be considered as a good one to have like the original version with the metrical psalms it’s considered a collection edition

[@farlowalexify]

One thing that I would like to see is the Thomson chain should have gone with this design as I like this style better than the Thompson chain that zondervan went with otherwise it looks great

[@ymshao]

Overall, do you find the new WRB (printed in Belarus) or the old WRB (printed in Netherlands) better?

[@farlowalexify]

I do have a compact as well but it is made in Balaruse not the Netherlands

[@sdhute]

I prefer the previous UK printed version when it comes to the cover material. I've had both and I currently have the new printing and wish I kept the older one.

[@edwardlweirs]

Format looks similar to the Thompson Chain Reference Bible

[@christopherlawson3380]

The cross refrence in this bible is brilliant

[@jayandrew87]

Randy is their ANY chance you’ve got a Schuyler Westminster you’ll sell? I’ve not been quick enough to snag one when they pop up.

[@BibleBuyingGuide]

Hi Jay. I don't have one to sell. Sorry about that.

[@jayandrew87]

@@BibleBuyingGuide thanks for the reply, I actually found one through the comment section on another reviewers video! 😊

[@JC-bm9so]

@@jayandrew87 any chance you know of someone selling one?

[@cliftonjr]

🕎

[@quietedbyHISlove_Zeph3.17]

If you can choose only one, would it be a Westminster or a Thompson chain? I know they are a bit different. But in terms of a good reference tool. Thx!

[@BibleBuyingGuide]

That's a tough one. I didn't include the TCR in the comparisons because I'm planning a video to compare them, but as you pointed out, they're so different it's really hard to choose. I'm not sure I could choose between them, but I have a harder time making decisions anyway, so that's no surprise for me. Thinking through them... the Westminster focuses more on contextual references while the TCR focuses on topics. Both are helpful in different ways. I can't choose.

[@quietedbyHISlove_Zeph3.17]

Fair enough!! That’s very helpful to know. Thank you again! (You do a great job with these reviews!)

[@BibleBuyingGuide]

@@quietedbyHISlove_Zeph3.17 thank you! I appreciate it!

[@akcenat]

This is not a chain reference, but more or just a scripture reference to the Bible. Basically, chain references and references here are not the same as a scripture reference type

[@File001]

I don't own any premium Bible, so I don't have much experience in different materials they use for printing and binding, but I do own a few Trinitarian Bible Society's editions - Windsor in calfskin leather (bonded leather though...), Westminster in hardback and The Textus Receptus made by Royal Jongbloed in 2016 - and they most definitely feel premium to me, but are super affordable. The paper is just the best. Smooth, nice cream color, very pleasant to read. But I also have a couple of Royal Rubies made by PrintCorp in Belarus from the same year and you definitely see the quality difference. The paper is not as premium, a bit thinner and rougher. Perhaps it is only for those "pocket size" Bibles that they used lower quality materials, and they have a bit higher standard for the major editions, such as Windsor and Westminster. Hopefully the paper quality is comparable in this new edition to the old one. That smoothness is what really stood out to me when I first opened it, and it is just a pleasure to hold it in my hand and turn the pages. Kind of sad to see TBS moving away from Royal Jongbloed... By the way, I love those cross references. I would highly recommend anyone - even if you're not King James only or speak English only as a second language (such as myself) - to get this wonderful Bible. It's gold.

[@xael]

I understand the dislike of Printcorp as they have (with their poor quality control) ruined a lot of bibles that would have been better printed and bound elsewhere. HOWEVER, I do own a Jongbloed (a company whose work I adore) and the paper/ghosting is almost the same as the Printcorp. A lot of people seem to think just because it's a Jongbloed print, that it's going to have the highest quality paper and minimal ghosting. TBS has the final say so in the paper used because they're paying for it. This is why you see a difference in say an RL Allan and a Westminster even though they're both printed by Jongbloed. I will say that the compact I got that's Printcorp had "quality" issues to be expected right out of the box. But thankfully Darci from TBS USA is a real gem and sent me a replacement and a shipping label immediately. I wish TBS would use better paper and a higher gsm 36 or higher. For this type of bible ghosting should be anticipated and designed accordingly. Unfortunately paper costs (from what I am being told) is the reason behind these choices. I know something is likely going on with paper prices as companies like Star Bible have told me projects they had planned have been cancelled indefinitely due to the cost of paper. So some companies are skimping and others are not able to print at all. This message wasn't for you Randy (as I am positive you know all this), but rather for those reading the comments. I think this is still one of my favorite blocks. Though in the end I might end up choosing a vintage Cambridge with India paper (Concord, Turquoise, or Cameo) because I dislike ghosting so much. All in all though the Westminster is an absolute powerhouse and I am glad I own them both.

[@jkdbuck7670]

I can't afford a Longprimer, but I have a Darby printed and bound in the Netherlands in 2000 and it has the greatest paper of any bible I own. Like you, ghosting is bad.

[@rainstormr7650]

Hi xael; what quality issues, just out of the box ?

[@rainstormr7650]

xael: - Are these 'paper costs' problems temporary ? could we hope for this condition to change with TBS ?

[@xael]

@@rainstormr7650 The gilding was marked up. The leather was marked up and if I remember correctly was coming apart from the block. This I don't blame TBS (particularly the USA office) for but rather Printcorp. As I stated above, I and many others have had very bad experience with them and at this point is expected.

[@xael]

@@rainstormr7650 No idea. When I spoke to the USA office they told me it's unlikely. Even when Schuyler did their Westminster they kept the text block as is, paper included, and just changed the binding, gilding, ribbons, etc. I think the only chance is for someone to make a proposal to TBS and get the print files and foot the bill for a premium print. In my opinion it's worth it.

[@geoffreyverkade8760]

How does this compare reference wise to the KJV Open Bible?

[@tiptupjr.9073]

Geez, I wish the large print edition had all this content. This would basically be my perfect Bible if not for the font size... I might take a gamble and get one just to see if I can comfortably read it. I'm mainly interested in the footnotes. As far as I can tell they are the KJV notes carried over from the Concord, with additional verse references. The Thomas Nelson footnotes are nice but slightly biased and incorrect (for example, calling the "unicorn" a wild ox while the KJV translators correctly noted it was a rhinocerous.) Also Thomas Nelson uses Yahweh... ugh.

[@elizabethdaniel646]

I have the hard back copy

[@sherryperez7462]

Sorry Randy - had a fat thumb and didn’t mean to do a thumbs down 🤪

[@BibleBuyingGuide]

Hi Sherry. Thanks for letting me know. :-)