AoE Festering Strike!! | Unholy + Frost TWW Alpha Update

[@Kurnhelios]

Festering Scythe is going to make us feel like Mortarion cosplayers and I’m all for it

[@Dene181]

Unholy will be even more insane in M+ and I will for sure love it!

[@andrewmiller5690]

Would be curious to know what the single target build will look like on alpha, and how much of any of this awesome AoE kit we'd be able to bring along. It has for certain sucked this expansion to be so wholly locked into ST or AoE, while other specs have a solid blend with little downside. Also hoping we can get away from Gargoyle in raid in favor of magi. Those times when the timing doesn't work well for our kit are so painful.

[@Anddrew92]

Every change that I've seen they have done with Unholy is always a win and seems to have a good direction. Meanwhile, for frost, I have yet to see the point of why even the spec is still in game at this point. Forcing cleaving strikes without interaction in the tree with Death and Decay and being literally the ONLY dps spec in the game that has to sit in one specific zone to deal meaningful AOE damage that it's always capped. What's the point of even choose Frost at this point when Unholy is the best spec for PVP, AOE and Single target? (btw I have been a main Frost DK main since the spec was released back in LK and being the tank spec focus in armor and physical resistance)

[@Uputz]

Sad we didn't get the ability from shadowlands Torghast, Tower of the Damned. When you use lich born you radiate death coils AOE including yourself they could have had this consume runic power, similar to breath. Probably would be another OP ability and hard to manage spell.

[@brianhoffmann1481]

This is nuts, i do agree this is kinda solidifying the whole ST spec or AOE Spec. I wonder how this will affect the Fortified and Tyrannical Weeks. That much AOE may not be needed on Tyrannical weeks.

[@brandoncomer6492]

i came to a similar conclusion on unholy. The way the tree is constructed pushes you into either being hyper focuses on AoE or hyper focused on ST. There are simply too many nodes. They need to prune all the 2pt nodes down to 1 pt nodes, and they need to prune some of the talents. As an example, we have to spend 3 points purely on AoE Magus.... that's absurd. We'd get about 4 pts pack just by pruning the 2 point nodes which would let your flush out your ST/AOE kit, which would make the builds much more balanced in that you could focus on ST or AoE but not be completely ass at the other... like most specs.

[@shadowdragon8168]

I really like the Festering Scythe idea, I just personally think it should be active all the time, not a proc, then if its active all the time, they can remove Vile Contagion and maybe pestilence, and then have Scythe be the main AoE wound generator. This would be it a lot more straight forward for generating wounds in aoe, remove something people might have to track, and helps reduce Unholy's CDs for at least AoE. I find it extremely redundant to have a CD ability, a proc ability, and a random proc passive all solely dedicated to spreading wounds, when they could have one always active AoE ability that does the job of all 3 better then all 3 combined.

[@voidgrim9465]

So u want apply and pop wounds on a same button... And make festering strike useless...

[@shadowdragon8168]

@@voidgrim9465 No...? Did you not read the tool tip for Festering Scythe? You don't pop wounds with Festering Strike/Scythe, you do that with Scourge Strike. And the change I would want would essentially just turn Festering Strike into an AoE ability, since Festering Scythe would just replace Festering Strike when talented. It would also allow them to remove Vile Contagion to reduce CDs Unholy has in AoE since Vile Contagion's only purpose is to spread wounds.

[@voidgrim9465]

@@shadowdragon8168 my bad, thought it was scourge strike

[@theolichty6343]

Brother the fact we still have runic mastery and Improved festering strike (not even to mention theyre 2 point nodes) is SOO fucking ilegal man

[@haphapablap9273]

Ya those 2 talents piss me off every time i look at the tree. 2 talent points for 0.2% more damage, wew.

[@haphapablap9273]

So how does the AOE AMS work? does it block debuffs on party members? How often is the rider AMS going out and how much is it absorbing? And how much is the leech aura from Sanlayn lichborne?

[@lucasbetarello2592]

Nice Pump day for the Pumpers

[@cc66bb44]

hows dk feel compared to ret

[@snozzmcberry2366]

Brew getting major defensive buffs, demo lock getting big tyrant back on the menu, UH dk getting wounds builds?! My altoholism is going to go crazy in TWW.

[@GUTAMAYAx]

And then there’s survival hunter.

[@snozzmcberry2366]

@@GUTAMAYAx The SV dev(s) need TWW launch to be a redemption arc or they need to be fired. I played and LOVED my SV hunter in DF S3 ... then the brainless masses voted through the dogshit tier for S4 and Blizz didn't fix it, so now the spec is basically dead in keys because 489 S3 tier beats I don't know how high ilvl S4 tier. Pisses me off.

[@Craftee6]

@@snozzmcberry2366 I think the real person who needs to be fired for it is the guy who reworked it in legion. They havent been able to make it worse since then, with exception of one season in shadowlands where it was just overtuned. I get that some people enjoy the playstyle it has currently, but ever since rework its been iterated on many times, and fighting with monk for popularity, despite being attached to historically by far the most popular class. Just give old survi back, big magic dmg, black arrow, explosive shot, big traps, cool effects with them, then work from there. Can keep grenades cuz why not, they're ranged ability either way.

[@edgardhenrique4113]

I don't have the Alpha so that makes me wonder, was the 4 horsemen damage really that low to get that many buffs? Are they good/better now?

[@tatemessmer4936]

Festering scythe is ass for our gameplay sadly. I just wish they would replace festering wounds with some disease version of the mechanic already....

[@Nevwermore]

Im happy to see theese changes in our tree. There are only couple of things that i would change, festering scythe this could be an choice node with vile contagion and maybe do something about morbdity and superstrain since now it probably wont be picked since there are much better options. New talent decomposition, im super happy about this one, it brings back old virulent plague that flared up and now its even more powerful and also usefull for our raid build. Im only a little concerned for theese talents on right side, all will serve unholy pact and ruptured vicera, there is proably no situations for theese talents to be picked.

[@JustinTheDev]

With all the additional wounds from Festering Scythe, couldn't you drop Vile Contagion and Infected Claws, and them maybe go Garg/Unholy Aura/Commander and still be very solid in AOE while dealing good ST?

[@voidgrim9465]

Gargoyle is shit without commander. But it requires 3 points into it. So you need to drop all wounds builders. Still can't get it at that point, it's like on retail. U can just play defile/gargoyle, but it's far from AoE that brings disease build.

[@JustinTheDev]

@@voidgrim9465 Ahh, you're right you would need to drop one point of decomposition. Still think its worth a look though as a good middle ground for ST/AOE.

[@voidgrim9465]

@@JustinTheDev maybe it will, i really hope on it bro. Gargoyle is so dead talent outside of raid. It should be one of the main CDs.

[@thegrim_1]

Can other people see Defile yet?

[@Wakener00]

I think Decomp and Festermight need to become 1 point nodes so we have a chance of getting either the left or the right capstones tbh.

[@efyuar]

on top of that, hav,ng 15+ stacks of festermight always up is awesome

[@Guatdefook]

Why not just have Scythe replace festering strike entirely when talented and remove vile contagion? Also, coil of dev should swap with garg/doomed bidding and harbinger of doom should swap with improved death coil.

[@Bicepspump]

AoE FS always would probably be too powerful

[@MPHIY17]

I don't like the hard, obvious push towards wounds. I really hope they give us an alternate option that's close for damage.

[@jeffrey3837]

Yes there is a large push to make wounds viable again. The issue being right now is that the disease build is so good that bursting sores is never viable. They have plenty of focus in disease for aoe and then the primary single target builds.

[@bill7302]

I think they should have pet build for ST, wound for AOE, and disease as an in between. Add a talent called concentrated virulence or something where diseases deal more damage the less targets they are on. Also, I am concerned abom will be the go to pick for rider because of more uptime on the horsemen. Hopefully they can balance army to still be competitive

[@zak8991]

Honestly I agree, but soley because i despise the abom model lol. Having an entire updated badass undead army compared to a nasty creation from 14 years ago...idk. I feel like if it summoned another cool looking undead creature I'd be down with it.

[@Therealrime]

Curious if you’ve tested at all but. For hyperpyrexia… let’s say you get two procs within 4 seconds. Does it overwrite or add to the remaining damage and refresh the duration

[@Bicepspump]

I expect it to work like Ignite, so no playing around really

[@teaganwalsh7011]

I'm curious if hyperpyrexia will work with the glacial advance from artic assault. Would be pretty solid if it does.

[@TheArmouryOfficial]

It does

[@Cyl444444]

unholy numbers are really good on beta at the moment playing this exact tree/hero setup , but in dungeons we still have a bloated rotation . Unholy Blight > fester > dark transformation > abomination > abom limb > unholy assault > Vile contagion > maybe apoc > dnd > spam scourge strikes and epidemic when proced . now obviously im testing in heroic dungeons and shit dies very fast , it just feels poop when you don't have the full line up . dont get me wrong unholy is still a pumper when you aoe anything regardless of cooldowns , but i would love to see some more testing done and more builds pop up that can compete with my 4m dps aoe on 8 mobs . also i changed out i think Infected Claws and Pestilence for Reaping and Harbinger or Doom to get some extra execute damage for higher keys , along with way more procs of magus of the dead , which does some pretty good damage in both aoe and st .

[@leonnolkemper7944]

love to play more with wounds, idk how the new festermight will be thou...and i love 3 sec more gargoyle xD

[@final.1270]

I tought, they would change BoS, so that you can use it 30 seconds and thats it :( Oh man :I

[@ArthurPessoadeSouza]

Does the scythe count works with wounds popped from dead mobs (bursting sores snap)?

[@Bicepspump]

Not sure exactly, I expect it does

[@James_Johnson79]

Kinda seeing the problem all DK specs have, including the general tree. Just really bottom heavy. With lots of our big throughput locked at the bottom of the tree behind 2 point nodes.

[@nisx2012]

Vile Contagion will be a dead talent once again. IMO they should axe it and replace it with something passive.

[@Bicepspump]

It has such great potential but also kinda sucks it does nothing in Single target

[@sarus-x1422]

That 300% bonus damage from vampiric strike is actually a 20% more damage. Not a big difference from 15%, but still a nice bump.

[@sarus-x1422]

I am loving the sustained increase that unholy is getting. The bursty profile is fun, and I do like having 1M+ bursts, but it's brutally punishing if those bursts get messed up for one reason or another.

[@duckbread6496]

I wish pets would burst wounds for us instead of generate, though not sure if that fixes anything aha

[@ShiveringSwe]

Still hope for more changes for frost. Why aren't they removing DnD or at least make it an aura. That one horseman got it as an aura is just a kick in the balls. Also we still need to move some damage from KM into normal oblitirates, then the specc would feel so much better. Also just remove the ramping strenght from pillar, so you can blast at the beginning. Then I would be happy

[@barneysoldierson54]

Make abom a choice node of army

[@vitorteixeira891]

If UB burst wounds while active...

[@shindigidy2286]

sorry im a real unholly noob, is the button bloat and overal rotation gonna feel about the same worse of better so far in the next expansion? im liking it but not at all a pro player so wondering how much ill struggle with the possibility of more buttons

[@Bicepspump]

Samey

[@brandoncomer6492]

Buttons are the same, but if anything it adds more complexity because festering strike becomes a bigger part of your rotation

[@jeffreysyre6981]

Biceps, which are you liking more in TWW? Frost or Unholy!?

[@codycurtin2295]

yesss i wnat to know too!

[@Bicepspump]

Unholy looks more exciting currently

[@jeffreysyre6981]

@@Bicepspump awesome, thanks for the reply kind sir.

[@Dumbmelee]

🐐

[@sickduck3268]

maybe with more haste you will be able to spend more wounds and wont be overcapped with em

[@TheAsmodianleader]

wats dat sword?

[@fkbf161]

So unholy gets love and frost is forgotten? What is this ga for free and some rw and rp spender buff? Where is the big breath rework? I thought something would come up like a end choice node for long breath vs short. That we can play it in m+ and raid. Atleast it looks like they go to one weapon type. Remove this 2 different playstyles its transmog in the end nothing more. Idc if they choose 2h or 1h but pls stick to one. I am tiered of gearing 2 different weapon Sets in a competetive area.

[@themobster7284]

The blizz scumbags, forgot about Frost after Legion obviously... Tho UH is also a DK, and is also garbage, since is so weak to mele dmg, and their DS dont heal as well, and their AMS also drop in 2 sec.. But they at least have crap MS, but they at least have one, and their burst is stronger.. Hell even Blood DK is weak in pvp, compared to what menace used to be back in the day...

[@michalnovotny6716]

Nice, i like the DK more And more 😀 btw, how do you like new Tier set look? 🙂

[@vlaad5512]

looks sh!t sadly

[@Kaslive1]

after Necrolord plate armor set or nighthold DK set, no other set will come close in the future. At least imo ...

[@michalnovotny6716]

@@Kaslive1 the amirdrasil one (risen nightmare) Is So cool too. But unholy will have the best animations And visuals i think 😀

[@themobster7284]

What is there to like... Compare this crap to WOD, MOP, Wrath, hell even Legion, and u will see DKs back then was scary in pvp... Today DKs are joke...

[@superplatinum]

i hate that in the first talent row we have to pay one extra talent point to be able to open all the talent locations in the mid talent row for UH, also Vile Contagion at this point should be replaced for Necrotic Plague, wounds increase it's damage, and Sudden Doom Death Coil extends it's duration, simple as that.

[@phoenixraith4377]

So dk will be the next dh in pvp cool, sounds like another season were u cant rly play any casters thx blizz

[@arcane3419]

just need to combine dark trans and plague into 1 button, and maybe extend the dnd stuff a but more. Also I want to not play apoc, but thats my opinion i guess. lookin good so far im excited.

[@SlayerDK]

At the moment, the developers have not solved any basic problems. However, I feel that our problems will get even worse. Actually they could remove DND and in this situation Scourge Strike should get a change to Scourge Scythe to hit targets in front of us without using DND

[@frenzr4107]

Personally I hope they can focus on single target more than AOE for unholy

[@Heypplchill]

Hyperpyrexia is the term for exceptionally high fever, usually any fever above 41 celcius. So a bit curious to see that name in a frost dk :P

[@Brainth_1780]

Yeah, I didn't know the medical term but I did know enough latin to recognize the terms "hyper-" (many) and "pyre" (relative to fire?). Probably should have gone for Hypopyrexia which, albeit somewhat meaningless in medical terms, could be interpreted to mean a cold fever.

[@haphapablap9273]

Hypopyrexia would make more sense

[@Heypplchill]

@@haphapablap9273 agreed

[@themobster7284]

FFS.. I want the WOD version of Frost DK, back when the class, and spec was so solid, and ppl did run for their life... These days i need to run, and i still die, since DK was never meant to be so weak, but to be slow moving armored menace..

[@Damingo54]

Remove breath from the game

[@Bman24641]

Eh… can’t do that. People enjoy it 🤷🏼‍♂️ thaaaaat being said- screw breath, it should only ever be “competitive”, not dominant 😅

[@neziaojuara1768]

Frost tree would instantly become 50% better if they just removed breath or massively reworked it, such a parasitic talent.

[@Majoramaster]

Breath is pretty fun 🤷‍♂️ It's what got me into DK in the first place

[@thunder9236]

Breath needs reworked or removed. I rarely ever see it and hate when it HAS to be played.

[@Majoramaster]

@@thunder9236 I can get behind that!

[@comatose68]

Bring back Horn of Winter party buff 😢

[@themobster7284]

FK that.. Id rather have presences back, necrotic strike, working / healing DS, real plate armor, not that paper crap, and scary dmg, and be slow as before.. Like DKs was in MOP, WOD, Legion..

[@Kspice9000]

​@@themobster7284I miss unholy presence

[@themobster7284]

@@Kspice9000 Not only, Blood presence was great too... UH aura/ presence made us faster in every way, and the moment we got in trouble, we dump all RP into DS and then shift to Blood aura, so we can be durable... Hell in MOP and specially WOD huntards were so broken, i did find myself in hard time vs them, many times they did kill me, cuz they run away and gg, u grip them they run again... Till i discovered that, the moment i see huntard i switch in Blood presence, and the DK becomes partly tank, and way more durable, then after that not a single huntard could kill me 1v1, not the bots, not the mid players, not the pros, or gladiators even... But DK back then was so strong, all the 3 specs were viable, not like today, is actually so sad, this class is a meme in pvp today... Even Blood DK today is way weaker, then what it used to be, and the worst part is, the spec is tank, and is weaker then prot paladins, druid, hell even prot warrior is more durable in pvp...

[@slugfest513]

i still think frost shouldnt be a "DnD based" spec and leave it to blood and unholy only. I really miss legion frost where we spammed frostscythe and had the aoe stun on RW. Cool and simple.

[@themobster7284]

FK Legion man, it was great exp... BUT i hate it so much for removing ton of spells, like presences, lichborne, DND, necrotic strike and more... Guess what in PVP DND is really needed, to brake stealth, interrupt casts/ drinks... In Legion i did feel like moron, rogue/ druid running infront of me 40 yards, and going stealth, usually most of the players are morons, and run straight to me, and if i had DND i drop it infront of me, and wait for them to become visible... Well in Legion i did suck it, could not do this, or drop DND behind me for protection.. Or when war, lock, prist do fear me, i had no lichborne in order to remove the damn fear... But yes i rather get Legion Frost DK, that was lacking on ton of spells, and 2H as well, over this current garbage... Ofc the ideal version was in MOP/ WOD..

[@Kspice9000]

​@themobster7284 as much as I hated the story of mop and wod, it was the frost 2h obliterate that made me stay, especially when I had it mastered and could take on 20 mobs by myself.

[@themobster7284]

@@Kspice9000 I dont remember back then what 2H was all about, sadly in Cata, MOP, WOD i did use what everyone said is better, that being 1H dual tooth picks, and Frost DK was insane with that too. But i bet 2H was very good as well, since the whole class and spec was so strong, and had itself presence, whatever it goes... Now in Legion the class lost its presences spell, and later on in BFA and SL, the class lost its game presence as well, being shadow of a shadow of a shadow, of what is was once upon a time... It is so disgusting to play PvP as Frost DK i prefer not to even bother, as i rage quit, cant deal with this crap, where other classes overpower me, not cuz of skill, but cuz their class is way more overtuned... Frost DK and the whole class itself these days is for tryhards, and ppl with stockholm syndrome....

[@coctailandy5864]

Petition to remove Death and decay to make dks great again. have every cleave abilities for free like all other classes

[@garuda313]

In M+… Too much AoE for unholy… 0 ST, 0 prio dmg, mediocre funnel… Maybe the funnel will be better with the Festermight change, but idk. Also, no raid buff. Gg, go next.

[@AsherrTheRed]

remov wounds remov bos

[@Shuja_R1M]

DnD/Defile gameplay? Fuck that

[@Bobby-XIII]

First!

[@shalage]

Bro its so difficult to understand what you are saying man.... can you speak more clearly or is it just me???

[@zak8991]

I understand him perfectly well. And he articulates very well. Maybe turn up your volume if you can't hear?

[@ShiveringSwe]

I have no problems. Try put on subtitles, maybe it will help

[@haphapablap9273]

Ya i dont have issues understanding

[@Kaslive1]

its probably just you, bro.

[@getoffendedwokeleftieweako]

Imagine pandemic would pop wounds 🎉😂