BIG DEBATE: Whiteness (Season 7 Ep 2)

[@njabuloqumbisa7601]

7 years from this debate, things are worse instead of better💔

[@tshepangrakalemakou7884]

True and sad reality

[@missedinfo4623]

Coz its all talk. White people love this.

[@kadyjee]

Look white people are made by Demonic satanic Evils they should leave black people aline we honestly don't want them go white people so we black can live our lives in peace I rest my Case!

[@kadyjee]

Monique is a liar she's hiding the truth of who she is of course white people are racist all of them!

[@Ziggy_Poitier]

White ppl need to leave Africa 🤞🏾💯💯 they’ve raped the continent for more than a millennium..we can only heal if we have the chance to govern ourselves and benefit from our own continent

[@13BeatKing]

I'm a Black Man in America and I just have to say, debates like this still HAVE NOT happened in America and that's horrible. I commend the SA people as a whole for taking up these discussions honestly because it shows that you've recognized the problem and are actively working toward a solution, no matter how painful that may be. We, in America, have yet to make it that far in our racial evolution and the same problems are wreaking havoc on our country to this day....

[@tiffanymorris5588]

Not true. we've had/have these types of meetings/rallies in black America since we've gotten here...

[@13BeatKing]

@@tiffanymorris5588 In Black America, no doubt. But I mean America as a whole. America itself has yet to confront the truth of what they did to us or Native Americans. That's what I think gives cover to all those who deny the atrocities this country is built and still thrives on.

[@tiffanymorris5588]

The natives have been compensated handsomly for what happened to them...they won't address us because of what you just did, you involved and spoke for a different group of formally oppressed people that don't care about speaking up for you.

[@13BeatKing]

@tiffanymorris5588 That's absolutely not why THEY don't address us. And speaking up for other oppressed groups have nothing to do with the oppressors and why they do what they do. Speaking up for other groups means we have compassion for our fellow human beings. We aren't them.

[@tiffanymorris5588]

@@13BeatKing did you know the natives don't want us here??? have you ever been to a native American festival, sure you haven't...my point is black America doesn't even know their enemies...do you know how silly we sound speaking up for wealthy natives when our own children are suffering....as long as we seek refuge within other groups we can be exploited

[@SA-su7kq]

I'm not south African but I keep watching these debates! It's just interesting.

[@SA-su7kq]

@breezy East Africa, living in North America.

[@mampoestimosala9048]

Welkom bro

[@joe_lubinda]

Same here.

[@realworld2494]

Some here

[@realworld2494]

This is a much bigger issue than just South Africa and why I don't know we all come from the same God and I think he would be ashamed of us all

[@joshuataylor3550]

Amazing that they think the signing of a paper immediately resolves racism overnight.

[@minorabladeofficial4071]

The question of "Who is Oppressed by who?" Was left unanswered. I wanted to hear that.

[@9175rock]

🙄😒

[@lettahsenoelo2604]

i think that is the biggest question , and finding an answer may help solve majority o four issues

[@masitanetv4181]

Indeed it was left unanswered

[@justleon721]

Because an honest answer would shut down the debate since it's really not about white vs black.

[@michellechituku5685]

@Nanda Das that's a shallow view, if someone gets raped, and the rapist dies, dealing with the effects of the rapist do not end just because the rapist has died. Apartheid ended in 1994, it's more recent than you think.

[@GoogleUser-wy2vv]

I enjoyed the intelligent comic that spoke of being left at home with a black women to raise him while being taught to hate...then "African time". Why would one expect blacks to run to make others rich? Good thinking from an evolved man that understands. I would like to see and hear more of him.

[@belindatamukedde5817]

Yesss, we don't want an equality of poverty. We want an equality of wealth

[@mariussielcken]

How can you expect equality of wealth when black countries are historically less developed?

[@trentbusta1]

The country has been subverted, Marxism is rampant get out!!!

[@mariussielcken]

@@wandiledlamini4916 compare Nigeria with England, Germany or France and the underdevelopment becomes obvious.

[@mariussielcken]

@@wandiledlamini4916 developing resources is not theft

[@mariussielcken]

@@wandiledlamini4916 the difference between richer and poorer African nations is that the poorer ones didn't get colonized.

[@9175rock]

People weren't capable of understanding what the sista Wanelise said. It's about pride, honor, self esteem, etc. Its about consciousness, image, self respect. Not about someone feeling sorry and giving it back to you.

[@lwazimkhwanazi3794]

She is stupid and toxic 🤞🏾

[@desertchild3550]

There is a serious need for these debates to take place daily.

[@phumulanipehlongwane8048]

Poor Sarah my sister you can't blame your self as an individual I respect what you are doing but you don't have to be emotionally destroyed like this...Yes you are white part of the problem but you my sister you don't have to suffer alone.

[@turquoisepurple7sky151]

Stop the cap

[@robbin-wt8kr]

1. Rebecca is the most honest white person. Most people equate racism with hatred, but it is a racial view and judgment of others, i.e. white supremacy. 2. The singer performing before such an important discussion was insensitive. 3. Holding a racist government accountable is like holding the fox accountable for the henhouse. 4. Affluent Black oppressing the indigent indigenous people poorly is typical of the trauma of racism and is a sign of self-hatred.

[@razoredge6130]

It's just true. Most white people just have a higher level of education. It's just a honest view of reality , nothing to do with racism.

[@cockoffgewgle4993]

A racist government? Blacks have been in power in South Africa for 30 years now, and have instituted openly racist policies-- against whites. Is this the racism you're against? Whites are supreme because they're more intelligent, developed and work harder than blacks. Whites built South Africa from the ground up, before they arrived it was nothing but primitive tribes and mud huts. Why would blacks think they're entitled to what whites built? If a white woman singing "black" African music is "cultural appropriation", then black Africans using electricity is cultural appropriation of white European culture. Guess which group "appropriates" more? Most blacks in South Africa are not "indigenous", they immigrated there. Whites have been there longer than most blacks. And they immigrated there because of the wealth whites built. So the idea that you can "return" the land to blacks is absurd, most aren't even native to the land. The sad fact is that the mean IQ in Africa is around 73. The country is successful and evolved because of whites. And blacks should be grateful they get to share in the wealth and civilisation whites built, not be resentful of it.

[@lansmgroup6540]

You are stupid

[@menzimkiva586]

The most disheartening thing, not surprising though, is that every argument raised in these comments has been addressed in the video above. The comments are just a display of what we already knew; Internalized racism is very thick. White people are not interested in having the change of the social climate explained to them, they are comfortable in their privilege. Who wouldn't ? When everything in South Africa and the world was designed to work in your favor. White people made the environment impossible for black people to succeed, then they turn around and say we don't want to take responsibility for the conditions we find ourselves in, insinuating that we are lazy, while they conveniently forget that it's not good enough to say we can share toilets and beaches and seats which is all 1994 was about, when you haven't dealt with the question of the land. To say black people can live wherever they want to and do whatever they want to, but deprive them of the means to live and do whatever they want , is to maintain segregation, but under the guise that you have dismantled it.

[@jasmynelee1617]

In America we call it red lining and it’s just recently became illegal the diaspora is crazy how are we on 2 different continents experiencing the same problem at different stages at this point what are we supposed to do these ppl won’t listen nor care we’re seriously fighting for control over our own bodies right now

[@Axz92Axz]

I have never seen racism and self hate on this scale before during my lifetime, and when hearing that girl talk openly and proudly about a race war is rather worrying. You only need to ask any Tutsi or Hutu so see what the consequences of such would be.

[@themburoyalty2179]

lucky you, i have experienced racism all my life. join the club

[@fragilehandlewithcare3967]

@@themburoyalty2179 since white people refuse to put themselves in our shoes and hear us out force will have to be considered. So we can replace capitalism with socialism and subsequent communism. People are starving and crime won't go anywhere until people feel equal.

[@khumomatlakane2009]

@@fragilehandlewithcare3967 you want to people to be even more reliant on government social security policies which have failed to even give the smallest amount of dignity by stealing food parcels? No Capitalism should be the thank you

[@dandanlovesdisblock]

Not fond of violence as a black person the ladies comments were dangerous but of course if you push a set of ppl into a corner it’s only so much they can take. Stop saying doing and do.

[@ZomziWeAfrika]

Join the club a white nit spat on my face I was 6

[@wonjubhoy]

A fantastic show. What I like about this is that race related issues are debated frankly and often passionately. There's no political correctness or cancel culture here which makes the debate compelling viewing.

[@user-wk8bq1ib5x]

I think one of the methods south Africans can employ to resolve this issue is to work together, blacks and whites who think the same against injustice. Working together for the truth and recognizing each other based on that will bring blacks and whites as brothers and sisters because you'll realize that some people honestly care. And one should not be judged based another's ideas and actions.

[@davidnfila1316]

Too much hate and anger that clouds judgement. No compromise. There are people who are willing to regenerate SA society.

[@adminRQ]

You are quite obviously not Black. The goal is freedom, not keeping the oppressors as "brothers".

[@thandolwethusithole4706]

i hear you but sadly i don't see that happening. at least not in this generation...

[@elbiedorman1266]

@@adminRQwhat does that mean-hatred taught by your so-called parliamentary saviours to get your votes to fill their pockets with money?

[@SiyabongaMbanjwa]

Dankie Masechaba but i think this show should be two hours because you end up shutting down people while they still have interesting points to say

[@lulamazibi9430]

There was a lot to cover nyani.

[@lizawalker2345]

😂Why do I feel for Sara …she was attacked

[@Chidds]

I don't know much about the realities of living in South Africa, but I do know racism when I see it, and it has no racial boundaries. I'm always astonished how those who are complete racists, themselves can complain about the racism of others and systems around them.

[@cgortz89]

Exactly. This is definitly on a problematic and dangerous level. I also don't see it as connecting together with creating a good development, as they seem to have social norms that push against "working like a white" by coming in time for the job, etc. I could understand only the black woman that come from a clear poverty area, but most of the rest seemed so racist that I don't see them coming with reasonable longterm solutions.

[@justleon721]

Projection is a major problem these days.

[@jasmynelee1617]

Racism =prejudice +power …educate yourselves

[@Chidds]

@@jasmynelee1617 Racism itself refers to an attitude, belief, and/or action. What you are alluding to is a sociological concept known as institutional racism. Perhaps sort out your own education, before demanding for others to educate themselves.

[@krunoslavkovacec1842]

100 percent. SOme people feel entitled to be openly racist while others are booed for saying facts...

[@mike-waynedjangoii6971]

When someone says PJ Powers is not a defender of black people's rights you know that person is ignorant

[@makungumathonsi333]

Hennie van Vureen,he's a man,am a black young south African but i have much respect to this man he's knowledgeable and wise..big up man,you should be a leader of imapctful portfolio

[@evettemadlala6697]

Definitely

[@ireneb.wallace8271]

I believe the TRC in any country is a sorry excuse to not prosecute criminals.

[@russelld2925]

So when a black person assumes some personal responsibility, recognizes their agency, and does what it takes to thrive they are accused of selling out?

[@OJOdin]

This is why black communities tend to be poorer in South Africa.

[@jsinvictim5063]

acting White lol

[@cgortz89]

Yup, it seems like it. Yet they exepect that everything will change eventhough that is the logical change in order for things to turn better for everyone. Obviously they need support, but if everyone only sees themselves as victims with "no chances", that support will reach to basically nothing. A well working society is tough to build.

[@greenhornet8262]

Caroline Görtz first of all, it’s spelled “expect”. Second, calling out Injustice and wrong doings done to their demographic and asking for better is not calling yourself a victim. The country would improve much faster on the world stage if ideas, skills and trade were taken into account from everybody, not just white people and If there was a effort to decrease poverty among people of color.

[@komlat253]

It depends how one says it .no one has 100% present control over they life .it makes literally no sense. We all are born in a society and depending where u were born dictates your options and how much or little u must try. Im not saying theres no hope but u have understand the economic disparity and also individual agency.

[@leightondawson5447]

The ideal South Africa is one in which NOBODY lives in an informal settlement.

[@zungunjabulo3389]

You will never be free if you wake up everyday and tell yourself that you are a victim.

[@themburoyalty2179]

SHUT UP

[@lettahsenoelo2604]

true , that activist lady seem very angry , in her state i really dont understand how she can represent other , mr zungu i agree with you, actually we the poor majority are the reason why growth is delayed, we spend 85% of our time in telling our selves e are victims and 15% blaming ......while we hv the power to change all this

[@cebongwetsheni2274]

I think such debates will only be effective when these wealthy families like Oppenheimer's mentioned, are involved in the debates. We need to hear their side of the story. In these panels I see average black and white South Africans.

[@lettahsenoelo2604]

your correct , is pointless to listen to ppl who have no idea what they are talking about . plus wanting impossible things show lack of maturity

[@dietlindvonhohenwald448]

They do not care about any of this. They are rich enough to have several estates in several countries, their money is safely invested off shore and they have their private gated communities and personal body guards. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@cockoffgewgle4993]

This is true. But also people, I believe, are under the misapprehension that anyone with a piece of land or a farm is "wealthy". This isn't the case. Especially when the government are debating stripping them of that land-- it devalues the land completely. And these farmers work hard and are the ones providing the country with food. Hand them over to poor blacks and they won't produce food anymore, as happened in Zimbabwe. @@dietlindvonhohenwald448

[@theguynamed_collins4152]

As a young black man regarded as and sold the dream from an early age of being a "born free" I stand today saying nothing has changed from the time of recording this debate and the year we in now instead things have gotten worse because of the leadership we have in government and cadre deployment which enables corruption in this country, we sit in darkness due to the so called "loadshedding crisis" as it is because of rogue individual in government office profiting from our suffering. South Africa must burn to ashes to see itself reborn if we are ever going to see glory as a country

[@KornFlace]

Same for all countries in Africa.

[@thomasclark166]

I am so privileged to not have been born in South Africa.

[@joe_lubinda]

I'm sure the people of South Africa don't give a fuck.

[@thomasclark166]

@@joe_lubinda likewise Joe

[@am-qd5xb]

Exactly.... People don't realize how lucky they are today that their ancestors sacrificed for their privilege today....

[@BeenGucciMaximus]

They will never understand

[@teem5642]

The girl with the black jacket is insightin shit. She knows she wouldn't even set foot on the war front

[@silverskiold7869]

It’s always tha ugly, fatty ones…

[@cognitivedissonance9737]

This wasn't a debate, it is a collection of people wining and complaining rather than doing.

[@lauriebrown1571]

I think debates are a place to discuss ideas not to commit to action. We need to know where we are before we commit to action. All action has some degree of consideration beforehand no?

[@katvogue2871]

@@lauriebrown1571 yessssss

[@712anastasia]

If we want to do something WE NEED to discuss about what to do

[@rockpoppets6182]

Yes agree, whining and complaining it’s easier than actually getting up and doing something to uplift yourself and others.

[@DocRealTalk]

That guy who spoke up about white monopoly capital and how the black elites are maintining it while feeding off the crumbs is the most valid point I heard here. Also the guy who spoke about capitalism and not wanting equality of poverty where black billionaires take the place of the whites.

[@jacquiosz6592]

that is who is oppressing the majority of south Africans now. the black elites. they have power over the economy, not whites.

[@DocRealTalk]

Jacqui Osz The first guy who said was white. The second guy was black. And he's not the one in power to oppress. Also whites do have power over the economy. They still own much of the good land and still control most of the big business' that were setup back in the day. This is true for most nations where whites invaded. They left and gave political power to the natives. BUT they setup their business' and forced everyone in to their economic system. Which means they control the resources and labour without even having to occupy those nations. Politicians are just tools for the interests of capital. And much of the capital in this world is still controlled by whites.

[@jacquiosz6592]

ok. please put together a map of land that white people own. if the rest isn't owned by blacks its owned by government. you will be surprised how much good land there is available. tribal chiefs also have land after being given back to them for their tribes. they refuse to divide the land with the tribe. so they are sitting on 100s of acres each and not farming it.

[@DocRealTalk]

Jacqui Osz Yes it's easy to point the finger at someone else to divert attention away. But in reality whites run the economy of most of their previous colonies. As far as I'm concerned Mandela and Tutu were pawns. All the land, resources and business' should have been nationalized. And whites should have been given some type of cheap accomodation like what blacks have in white nations lol Then over several generations they can show everyone how you pull youself up by the bootstraps when you start with no bootstraps.

[@jacquiosz6592]

still waiting for FACTS so that we know you are actually crying about something valid.

[@nigelmadzima2169]

this debate is pointless, the adjudicator is compromised.

[@gdm1577]

I agree with you , she a very bias presenter.

[@ladyk7317]

That structure reaches all the way to America California and when Black Afrikan people refuse to acknowledge it and stand together against it this breaks my heart for us as a people 💪🏾💋

[@lebohangkhutsoane696]

on a point of correction, Rock music also evolved from black people, haha

[@cynicalrealist9170]

ITS WAS BLUES TO BE EXACT......NOT STUPID DREAM BEATING NATIVES!!!! ROCK AND METAL ALSO HAS ARABIC, ARMENIAN, LATIN, ETC ETC ETC ETC TO THANK FOR MY FAVOURITE SATAN MUSIC GENRE.... SO PLEASE STOP PATTING YOURSELF ON YOUR SHOULDER...ITS SICKENING AND DASTARDLY STUPID!!!

[@bennoumstatter490]

Devon brought me here.

[@daniellakandundu1650]

I think the main problem here is the big inequality gap. Of course, there are a number of black wealthy people who most probably worked their way up and their children get to grow up in that luxury. On the other hand, white people are born with a silver spoon, they do not know and relate with the struggles that black people went through, and it's really sad. Most of the black people are living in extreme poverty because of the past. Now the question is, moving forward how do we solve these issues, what could the government and the community as a whole do about these issues? Another problem, that I believe is perpetuating poverty is capitalism, the control of resources that the greedy people hold and mistreat the poor.

[@oggravman]

Rhodesia 2.0 here it comes

[@southyentertainment3350]

In your dreams

[@tfmkhonza5084]

Rather be than eating on your scrabs

[@The_Vuka_Experience]

You are stuck in the colonial era baba. Heal 😂

[@ZomziWeAfrika]

@@tfmkhonza5084 Real Talk

[@M1ke22]

Land Land Land.... For a people that 'stole land' us whites didn't really do a good job. Of my broad circle of family and friends , 90% don't even own their own house - the bank does. On farmland - We have 80 000 farmers in South Africa. Will the land of 80 000 farmers house 50 million people? Its amazing that these 'activists' just want quick fixes to all our social problems. Want solutions to eradicate poverty? Look at South Korea, Singapore, Malaysia. These are examples to follow. Not zimbabwe revenge politics 2.0

[@jimbobjones3391]

Please enlighten us - what is your point?

[@ndolisabi4070]

+Jimbo Jones the point is many of those white people have thousands of hectors each, some of them have each large land bigger than our neighbour countries

[@M1ke22]

Bigger than our neighboring countries? Citation required please. And 'because king juju said so' doesn't make it credible

[@celiacruzazucar6630]

Land and properties not the same thing. Stole the land not the home.

[@kg356]

​@@ndolisabi4070And what are they doing with the land? Just sitting on it?

[@bulelanibotman]

35:53 what this guy is saying is true, if we resort to violence then we're not progressing as a country & it means we're living in dangerous times

[@vincentestinson896]

It seems to me, that dangerous times have never ended because just as recent as 30yrs ago African were being murdered in a country stolen from them

[@CausingChaosnam]

The mediator is not even neutral.

[@art_by_darney]

exactly

[@xdoublet96x]

The way she’s not even trying to hide it is so unprofessional. But that just shows how dire the situation is. With love form 🇧🇼

[@justleon721]

They never are. But sadly, she's doing much better than a lot of others.

[@yansideabacoa6257]

because she is black, why would you expect her to be neutral? to benefit whiteness? “neutrality” does not exist

[@alsoknownasleena]

Really? This is your take from this? 😂😂😂 yoh!

[@seriamvazmendes5882]

I love watch this program ❤️ I’m from Guinea-Bissau 🇬🇼

[@NzappaZap]

I was hoping someone would take the question seriously about what the mechanics are behind the oppression. Who's oppressed and by whom? I understand the low resolution answer, but I want to know some real world specifics instead of this generalization that it's simply blacks being oppressed by corporate white monopolies. How does that work? I want something that isn't highly emotional and intellectually shallow. I want to know the mechanics. SA has a completely messed up economic structure that would be well worth sorting out. Housing is a human right and yet no-one can afford housing. I don't think anyone on the show could tell you why that's ridiculous.

[@Black_unity597]

I can tell you this is whites own all the resources and didn’t earn none of it and have blocked all the black people out of obtaining any wealth on their land they are the oppression class or group they should go back to Europe to be honest give back what isn’t yours! No more oppression! Problem solved!

[@d3mvr]

just do some more individual research and you'll find plenty of evidence of such mechanics 👍

[@biharcourt]

In a capitalist society, the owners of capital have the power and create heirachial structures. In S. Africa, capital have been accumulated by the whites over time through colonisation and apartheid. So the whites still have control and still use their own systems with the help of the black neo-elites in power who serve and protect capitalism and capital owners.

[@harekrishnasupremegod6654]

they are also good at sweet talking and calming down a angry mob until they have control of your mind to keep pushing to take over, we already witness it here in america and still its going on and exists but they media cuts of this so the rest of the world does not see.

[@fatimalobi6382]

And then, the mind sleeps again while the gatekeepers of elites assist on systemic cohesion of hypnotizing the downtrodden. Before you know it, poverty doubles down. The sad part is that both white and black elites instead of curbing the issue of Racism which leads to social and economic injustice (One is not suitable for the position because of skin color or has less experience) for the most part, will also be affected.

[@devilak74]

Aiu!!!! Devon, I still need you to do a video on this.

[@illsam_za]

I saw a small clip of this on Twitter and I love how everyone expressed themselves within the anger, confusion and empathy. If we have more topics around this we’ll be able to heal people more. We have to tackle the issue head on whether it angers us, saddens us but that’s the only way to go forwadd

[@TeenNewsLive]

Speaker: Rebecca are all white people racist? Rebecca: Absolutely 100%, how can you be a white person in South Africa and not be a racist? holy shit I just died

[@firestriderandros]

No one tell about the Bantu expansion and how the Zulu branch of bantu peoples massacred other tribes in their way to South Africa

[@wernerschneider4460]

This is complete nonsense. It would imply that the wife of Siya Kolisi, who is a white woman without doubt, would be a racist too. And Denis Goldberg would have been one too. And Johnny Clegg as well. And André Brink. And every white South African (man or woman) married to a non-white South African would be one too. Hardly ever heard such a stupid remark.

[@africanandproud6792]

@@firestriderandros Zulus were not Zulus on their way to South Africa. So according to you, Zulus arrived here in the 1800s. Dumb.

[@phumulanipehlongwane8048]

You know please people if you don't know the actual history just take a back seat - white people have big opinions about our history just shut up @Andros cos clearly the history you know is not our history, and the stupid claim made by white people that Khoisan are South Africans as if Bantu people are not Africans is stupid - Bantu and Khoisan are Africans and other unknown African tribes (black or brown) - we didn't have these buffers before whites came with them so our debate will always remove even the boundaries. You know it makes me sick to see white people who don't see what the sins of their forefathers have done to black people when I say black I mean black including those who distance themselves like coloureds.

[@africanandproud6792]

@Vlad the Inhaler Thank you 😊. You too.

[@Thembimkhabela]

I think this is interesting. I want to understand taking back the land can someone explain?

[@rendanipeace7508]

It means go where there is land take it and put it in your pocket, or take it home with you.

[@fancyleelee1992]

😂😂😂

[@Akhona3]

Lol In the closing statements...the guy behind the FW De Klerk foundation representative was hilarious :D :D

[@amosyankey2059]

The important thing is what the panelists and audiences do from here. What is the action plan? What are the specific tasks for everyone?

[@teem5642]

We can never unite if we hate others, us blacks involved.. This is the problem with people like that girl who called that music mediocre. We can never move forward with that mentality. We are targeting the wrong things.

[@turquoisepurple7sky151]

You all are too forgiving to white folks

[@stevemaye2808]

That comes out quite Christian! Who told you you can't hate others? That's our problem! Always following MLK shit! We need to unite and realize that we have no friends! So me! I'm going with hate! It don't hurt and it's not time consuming!

[@meshackmagagula1093]

The ANC made the biggest mistake before 1994, they adopted the neoliberal policy imposed by the Americans. The Washington consensus is a in an instrument that preserve, protect and sustain capitalism and most of the power is vested on corporates, not in the hands of civil society.

[@olamsoevik]

Capitalism is good.

[@thandolwethusithole4706]

​​@@olamsoevik do you still stand by that statement 6 years later?

[@prettisibbs2176]

@@thandolwethusithole4706😂😂😂

[@stanbily9416]

What is the song name at the start?

[@galikate9656]

Jabulani by PJ powers

[@hlengymoyo1931]

South Africa needs to be careful not to fall in the same pit as Zimbabwe, it's one thing to have the land, it's something else to be productive after acquiring the land. Black Zimbabweans took back the land and are not half as productive with it because they didn't acquire the necessary skills to keep it going. So as you fight for land and equal opportunity, ensure you have what's necessary to sustain it.

[@ndolisabi4070]

+hlengiwe moyo zimbabwe had serious political issues and the country came under sanctions by western countries! i guess you not suggesting that africans can't be able to farm at all because they are africans

[@hlengymoyo1931]

No I'm suggesting that regardless of race, if you don't have the necessary tools to maintain and sustain what you have it will fail as a result of mismanagement. Just as with any skill or profession, in order to be fully productive and lucrative, one needs to be fully equipped to manage resources. Sanctions have nothing to do with mismanagement and lack of accountability of resources. Even in the transfer of land, it is necessary to have a transition plan that is well laid out and the effects are fully analysed before implementation.

[@prettisibbs2176]

At least we don’t live in shacks

[@MrFiddleedee]

this feels like a key and peele sketch

[@chriskeystuber]

the format here restricts follow through on nearly every point made. it creates a situation where each speaker is forced to make reductive sound bytes out of years of experience and thought. its also clear that many involved here enter into this 'debate' only to speak their minds and not to actually try to hear what opposing thoughts exist outside of their world views. people can change their minds and the way they act, all people grow, but personal transformation isnt possible in a discussion like this one, i dont think. the host actually has a very difficult job as a debate like this (or any other really) requires her to set aside personal bias, which im not sure is possible. too many important threads of thought go unexplored... if it really is such a big important debate (and it is!!!) then this topic should be discussed nightly/daily over the next year/s, making sure that individuals ideas are fully explored... but how likely is that given the idea of tv ratings and sponsorship??? sad really

[@youngafriqeen8737]

I actually think this is a difficult but necessary conversation and obviously prone to personal bias. However it does give the the two race groups a platform to hear each other, understand and move towards a solution. It's obviously not a one episode or one hour conversation but should probably be ongoing. I'm not south African but having been there, became aware of the racial microaggressions and social injustices that exist there.

[@harley1450ification]

We need to revisit this debate now in 2024

[@FireMusicWorldwide]

How do people get on this show, so many of them have no idea what they're talking about.

[@lettahsenoelo2604]

85% of them

[@makeHimknown3]

Her hair is FIRE 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@kptfefe1]

that white poet chick is completely crazy

[@shinxb447]

I've just wet my bed I feel quite sorry for her. She is riddled with guilt and you can read it on her face. Poor girl.

[@jimbobjones3391]

Oslo syndrome.

[@leboganglucas6770]

She's still young......still confused

[@donovanarndt4606]

Not guilt....Fear. She though that she can fawn about and be excused until she realised it aint working. @@shinxb447

[@elbiedorman1266]

Don’t know where she crawled out from: completely bonkers.

[@DharmYogi]

What they should do is make education mandatory and free in the entire country and give everyone the same chance to learn and become skillful. There are great talents in every person. Key is to give people skills and opportunity.

[@drummer8491]

Dude who chimed in at the end about capitalism hit the nail on the head.

[@pmambongwe8640]

Why are people attacking PJ Powers?

[@presidentoneday6634]

That old guy is out of touch! It's sad because its probably the 1st time he's seen a little bit of freedom... those are the dangers...

[@ndabanekhaboz]

Very Very Constructive Debates l have watched, Keep it up !!!, l like the Introduction of PJ Powers song JABULANI (Be Happy) .. Acknowledge the need to Unite , Work together for a Better Nations...

[@redumetsebellz4524]

Still today we having the same conversations, yikes...the world is doomed. Ignorance will kill us all.

[@PoliticalAbstract]

It's only been 27 years since the Apartheid ended, I don't understand why you expect drastic changes when most of the audience is barely a generation away from it.

[@SabriyaYo]

You are white, aren’t you 😂

[@kg356]

It won't end until technology makes these conversations obsolete. Its possible the race conversation will not end until there's separation of the races.

[@jolisanne1384]

Why is everyone in the comments complaining about Masechaba and the audience's bias? They're Black South Africans, how could it be in any way desirable for them not to be biased in a debate about racism?? It'd be concerning, if they weren't

[@taqiyya3400]

@32:48 "I'm sitting as a poor black dispossessed woman"... I've never seen poor person riddled in so much jewelry and leather before.

[@themburoyalty2179]

Well now you have , its always a first time. We have gold in Africa , who should be wearing it .

[@keikei1943]

yeah only someone not from South Afrika would say this

[@9175rock]

What is wrong with you ppl. She had on 1 necklace and it didn't look gold. Why the lies. Mental Illness is what this is.

[@dougwilliams8274]

Anti-Blackness ever present in the Ummah! I pray you are in a better place than you where 3 years ago. God Bless.

[@taqiyya3400]

@@dougwilliams8274 What a rich comment on a video that was broadcast across multiple countries promoting anti-Whiteness...

[@DharmYogi]

Politicians are usually the problem and most people forget to think about them in discussions

[@nonhlanhlapreciousRadebe]

Yoh!!! This is hectic!

[@makeHimknown3]

U can sing black and colored songs and never experience what blacks and colored people experience

[@myexperience6813]

I find it crazy that the native people of a country is fight for rights within their own country.

[@sdays59]

Yes it’s almost like DUHHHH!

[@sdays59]

What were they doing, sleeping when whites took over and occupied?

[@cockoffgewgle4993]

Most of them aren't "native", they're 1st, 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants.

[@kg356]

Probably because people don't want to give up land they've been cultivating for generations just to see everything fall to ruins in the hands of incompetent people.

[@nomadictravelerfromTx]

When the pinks came to Africa they had the bible and the blacks had the land, the pinks said, "Close your eyes and pray". When the blacks opened their eyes they had the bible and the pinks had the land. Never trust your oppressor, even when they come with the bible....😮😮😮😮 by a black man living in Texas.

[@merinamasawa1180]

😂😂😂 the guy in 1:02 lookin at the singing lady like shit.

[@mahlahlana]

Yeses! we have got intellectuals in these ladies....

[@trentbusta1]

Who?

[@marktrollip5074]

And fire the host because she is bias when you look at her reactions and speech on alot of these debates.

[@restinpeaceholowka2555]

I agree and I am black

[@greenhornet8262]

Rest in peace Holowka Youre not.

[@user-cg4op3zx3w]

South of Africa is still Africa. East west north and south. All is African people land

[@churchtalkunlimited]

Thank you for this presentation!

[@6strings1pickup12]

So am I to assume that once the Whites have given their land over to the Bantu peoples due to the injustices oh aparteid, the Bantus will then in turn pass the land back to the Bushmen whom they took it from in the first place?

[@themburoyalty2179]

Dont worry what we do with our land, for your information, the Khoisans are Africans and black, they were fighti ng your ancestors , now they wont be marginalized. Dont worry yourself about our land .

[@mimomuiruri1552]

You do realise the Khoisans are black Africans, right? ..oh and they aren't called bushmen. They have a name. Do your research :)

[@olwethukhumalo5816]

Lol...what land? Africans were nomadic people ...there was never any boarders before the colonizers came here...plus khoisans only occupied coastal lands only...so i don't know what you're talking about...

[@fanelemabaso2514]

Thats illogical. If we use your line of reasoning then no one would have land, caz even anglos found people living in britain, the Japanese found people living in that Island etc they are a germantic tribe etc. The argument of land is about letting people have what is rightfully theirs, in the continent that their maker put them in. The Khoi and San people are Africans like Bantu people. Stop trying to divide African people. Bantu, Khoi, San, Nilotic, Ethiopian we are all Africans and we all derserve to own a part of our continent. The point is not about who was first, the point is we are All Africans. As much as Bantu people displaced the Khoi and San, they didnt dehumanise, rape, steal their cattle and land. Pre colonisation those groups roamed freely in this continent without boarders.

[@whenwe9168]

Of course they wont lol. They also push the narrative that suits them

[@guyafrica7894]

Things about to get lit 🐸☕

[@whenwe9168]

Bring it

[@lydiathathaisa9319]

12:22 strong point, thank you

[@wisdomofthesages-or4sn]

I think we are forgiving people who didn't ask for forgiveness

[@Globalfaction]

Good to see some Lions and Lioness in there still. We see you. Salute.

[@whenwe9168]

14:20 well done sir the masses dont want to swallow that truth tablet

[@nigelriley70]

Never trust a politician

[@fragilehandlewithcare3967]

Mr Ebrahim and Ayabonga have a point but I think we can also discuss the covert and overt racism at the same time coz there is no single issue. Penny Sparrows must know what they say has consequences but the government must also know that people cannot be anymore patient than they have already been.

[@farukibrahim2519]

Acho que é um debate que vale a pena continuar, desde que dê frutos. E encorajo aos promotores a convidarem proeminentes figuras da governação do país e aos partidos da oposição a fazerem-se presentes também, para termos um debate mais inclusivo. Só assim, acredito que pode resultar em algo útil para todos, sem descriminação. Caminhar para a expropriação da terra aos brancos, não sei se será a definitiva solução para a maioria negra. Expropriar só por expropriar a terra aos brancos, duvido que será a melhor solução para todos. Que concordo que se deve pensar num mecanismo de redistribuição da terra que beneficie em alguma medida a todos, mas isso não pode por em causa a produção e a produtividade, que em última instância pode contribuir para o colapso da economia sul africana, e no fim teremos um país falhado como é o caso do vizinho Zimbabwe, que hoje em dia nem a sua própria moeda pode usar.

[@sazilurwengu8167]

Who is here in 2021 alert level 1 lockdown

[@tflking4916]

It's like a circle of radical UCT students

[@ZomziWeAfrika]

Nope we all feel it . It’s not your experience.

[@d3mvr]

it is so surprising how during this debate nobody mentioned how white people (or the foreign subjects in this case) should go back to the countries they came from as a solution to their problems like we always hear in European debates of these sorts....

[@kg356]

Probably because the Europeans have been living there for 100+ years, designed the country's infrastructure, institutions, etc.

[@redvelvet9876]

This was 10 years ago?

[@selfemancipation7967]

This is the Best show, and with the Best, classiest and most beautiful Hostess in the world. Lots of Love and shout out to you Sister Masechaba Ndvolu. You are doing a wonderful job. Please keep it up. Cheers

[@Nene-hl4bn]

Can we please remind meneer Hannie that indigenous peoples of Southern Africa are BLACK?!?!?!.

[@WilfChadwick]

Damn right, before whites arrived, South Africa was inhabited by the Khoe-San. They make up 1% of the modern population, everyone else should bugger off back to where they came from, whites back to Europe, non Khoe-San should run back to wherever they came from in africa, the indians back to asia and the coloureds, well, who cares about them? You tell 'em Nene, you go girl!

[@ferdykeyz4583]

@@WilfChadwick under whose name was the land when it was transferred to white people paperwise,and if the whites claim that they came with everyone else here how come the majority of the land and wealth is in the hands of the whites then and not equally devided amongst everyone because the reason why whites all of a sudden say the land belongs to the Khoisan people is because they don't want to share it equally which is why we're here in the first place.. Okay if you are saying that there were title deeds in the name of Khoisan people before the whites came here and took it then why are we debating give it all back to the Khoisan people then everyone else,colourd,black,white,indians and Asians will have to go back to where they came from or submit to the Khoisan people.....lol....wolla!! So come on let's stop the debate transfer back the land to the Khoisan people!

[@WilfChadwick]

@@ferdykeyz4583 why are you asking me? Your comment is just a long winded way of saying what I said. Except the Khoisan didn't actually inhabit the coastal regions where the Dutch settled, so I suppose Kaap Stadt should belong to the Boer and port Elizabeth and Durban British. The peace loving ANC and EFF I'm sure will bugger off, leaving Pretoria and Joburg for the Khoisan.

[@ferdykeyz4583]

@@WilfChadwick I'm asking you because you seem to know in whose name the title deed of South Africa was before white people came here. Are you saying Khoisan people are indigenous to Gauteng province what about the other parts of South Africa since white people said they found Khoisan people when they came here lol?

[@WilfChadwick]

@@ferdykeyz4583 not at the Cape, inland. Finders keepers.

[@nickboyce5850]

"we have to celebrate our diversity, together we can make a success of this country" - *presenter starts laughing* I guess we should not celebrate diversity, hate each other, and live separate and isolated lives? I'm glad that these intolerant views are being exposed but it's sad that people appear to learn nothing from the history of oppression and intolerance. We should all treat each other with respect while trying to find solutions for major issues in SA today.

[@Honest_and_Truthful]

'Multiculturalism' never works. Blacks will always hate and destroy whites. Homogeneous nations are normal and the only thing that can ever prevent 'racism.'

[@bonganimungwa7573]

@@Honest_and_Truthful. No the other way round is true...or do i need to remind you that its whites that created racism and destroyed the dignity of people...Their systems stole resources from Africans and now expect Africans to be quiet. It will one day work in Heaven Revelation 7:9 9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. The only reason why people never unite is sin and all of it comes from pride where one person esteems himself better than the other

[@bonganimungwa7573]

@mik rof. In the first place who created such a condition of things...isnt it the one who thinks they are creating value....you cant mistreat and dehumanise people and expect them to act otherwise...The system of Apartheid ensured or made sure blacks are dehumanized and their dignity stripped...the mental scourge it caused may never be effaced in our life time...You cant sow evil seed and expect to reap a good harvest...Slavery or oppression always results in a savageness.. Says one Christian writer about effects of slavery or oppression of blacks in America "Who is it that held these people in servitude? Who kept them in ignorance, and pursued a course to debase and brutalize them, forcing them to disregard the law of marriage, breaking up the family relation, tearing wife from husband, and husband from wife? If the race is degraded, if they are repulsive in habits and manners, who made them so? Is there not much due to them from the white people? (The Southern Work. 1898. Ellen G White page 14) The irony of this is that Apartheid was created by a people who regard themselves Christian...against all teachings in Bible about love towards one s neighbours ... This is the world whites created...every where your ancestors went people wept...Look at the destruction that has been wrought by white civilisation...talk of world wars...race wars etc..

[@siphokuhlesiyatoto3596]

@mik rof so you treat one with decency only when they're accomplished individuals?

[@siphokuhlesiyatoto3596]

@mik rof black people "slaughtered all white nobility"? It's clear to me that growing up in a system of enforced white dominance has made you oblivious. I'd love to know where you got that statement from.

[@ROBERTAGYEKUM-nw3cz]

Beautiful people, you're having a wonderful discourse, please let's not inflame passions. I pray it helps to achieve the longed-for goals. ❤🎉

[@stephennyalunga4855]

I'm like Ya the debate, but damn Masechaba I love her!

[@drewbranch7700]

I am afraid I a bit skeptical about this panel,you want to be transparent,then have each person representing their tribe and most importantly,insert some critical thinking and each tribe must ask themselves what they did to contribute to this thought provoking issue. Once everyone has recognized what they did to contribute to this problem then perhaps I hope all could come with a healthy resolution to this land distribution topic along with economic inequality.

[@DTMH25]

Great video and great topic

[@thabengmokgautsi2519]

I am a young black man from Botswana. I honestly empathize with the black community for the struggles that they have endured due to apartheid, but it is genuinely disheartening to watch how there is no self introspection within the black community and they are quick to point the fingers at apartheid or even foreigners because of their economic status. The government has been black run for years, why not point the fingers at the same people governing the country? The ANC during it's tenure has been entangled with countless corruption schemes and getting away with it in masses embezzling money that should be going towards refining the country's beggarly situation. I feel like it is purely unfair to crucify some of the white women who are there and are genuinely and earnestly there to promote equality especially Sarah why is she being attacked? she wasn't there during the time of oppression, she has a conscious and she knows what the right way of life is. Wanelisa my sister of color it is truly admirable of how you want to fight for land reform, but is that the right way of going about it? promoting violence? The blatant ignorance I see being displayed when you don't have a firm understanding of the basis of how things have been operating even when more older people are trying to get you to fathom is just a reflection on how ignorant we can be as a race. There is a certain way we should approach things and it should be in a progressive manner not with a closeted mindset because of the pain and suffering that has been endured for years and years.

[@OJOdin]

This has totally changed my view of South Africans negatively.

[@fragilehandlewithcare3967]

Australia is waiting.

[@mampoestimosala9048]

Sorry

[@Geritopia]

Note the format. "When we come back, we'll discuss whether we should go to war"... cut to commercial. The economic fundamentals of what enable this show to exist are "oppressive" structures of wealth. These are obviously serious topics to debate but the culture itself will never go back to pure South Africa. There is no way back to the way things were, whether imagined or real. Its amazing and good that this show didn't break down into a complete violence but, verbally, fires are being set left and right. This condition calls for vision beyond common human (predictable reactionary) ability.

[@azaddpersad7021]

What and which rainbow has a black bow.

[@smithchokwe8611]

Imagine S.A as a dairy cow that needs to be taken care of for it to produce enough milk to sustain the demands of one big family. 1. Would you rather have it in the black/white hands that don't take good care of it... 2. Have it in black/white hands that take good care of it? I think it should be in the BLACK ABLE HANDS that can take good care of it. South Africa is a black nation and it's wise to acknowledge that there has been white supremacy for far too long.....and sadly, black supremacy is also here and it's still not doing enough to make Blacks feel at home. Let's elect good black leadership that wont oppress fellow blacks AND make sure that every South African gets to enjoy the national cake.