Big Updates from Blizzard - New M+ cache and Soulbind Changes

[@benoitrousseau4137]

5:30 Actually, the % sign here is just a marker to tell the computer that this is a placeholder to be replaced with something, and the d tells it that it should fit an integer number there. So it's just "your top N runs" , not a top percentage of your runs. So basically as soon as you've done your N mythic +10s, you can do any mythic+ key you want and it won't affect your rewards. I'm not sure how comprehensible the doc would be to someone who is not a programmer, but you can lookup "printf format" to understand what those placeholders mean.

[@155heyman]

From what i understand you may boost your friend anytime, it's just that for your 1st choice it will bet at your highest m+, 2nd choice it will look at your top X (5 if i remember correctly) and 3rd your top 15 dungeons

[@kat-rau.]

So wait, we could do one mythic plus dungeon at the reward cap then 14 Mythic +0 or Mythic +1-2 dungeons and get the reward cap piece of loot? That would be much more reasonable than what Preach preposed. 15 reward cap dungeons is SO many keys...

[@wilhelmjohansson1643]

@@kat-rau. No, if you do 1 M+15 and then 14m0 your 1st reward would be reward cap and the other 2 the lowest tier possible. If you do 5x m+15 your first 2 rewards are capped and the last one lowest tier.

[@fridge2087]

@@wilhelmjohansson1643 That assumes that the number that gets put in is the number of runs you do. It could be, top 1/1 for the first slot, top 3/5 for the second and top 5/15 for the last slot for all we know.

[@aureliabackup7313]

@@kat-rau. Nope, the amount of dungeons needed for each reward tier is different. It could be top 1 dungeon for the first reward, top 5 dungeons for the 2nd reward, and top 15 dungeons for the 3rd reward. Which means if you do 14 runs of a +10 dungeon, then one +2 dungeon, the first and 2nd reward will be of the +10 reward level, but the 3rd reward will be of a +2 level. If you then also do another dungeon at +10 the 3rd reward gets upgraded to +10 level.

[@fakeskuH]

It's not a percentage of your highest M+ runs for the reward. It's a flat number: %2 indicates the second parameter $d indicates its a decimal type.

[@LPerro_]

Exactly this and this can't be stressed enough because people are already freaking out about this.

[@Jon0007723]

I don't know anything about code and I KNEW this would be the case. People are freaking out over a % sign that doesn't even mean what they think it means in an unannounced feature that isn't even on the beta servers yet. People are dumb xD

[@richardjones8846]

people are also for the most part doomsayers and dumb when it comes to this shit. do a +10 once... you get a piece of gear at +10 level. do 5 +10's and you get 2 options of +10 loot. do 5 +10's and 47 2-6's you're still getting your god damn 2 options of +10 loot. do 15 +10's and 47 2-6's and you're still getting your god damn 3 options of +10 loot.

[@MrDamnlolSenior]

@@richardjones8846 it's a bit nitpicky but you will get 2 pieces of +10 loot and a lower one to choose from as 15 keys unlocks a third option

[@richardjones8846]

@@MrDamnlolSenior i added the "do 15" just for you. if all you do is mythic+... it's not a big deal. if all you do is pvp... easy as. if all you do is raid... well you're still going to have to do mythic+ unless the raid options give raid gear, and or everyone has to everything like it is currently. currently in bfa... and i really really do fear this in shadowlands... you're pretty much forced to do A FUCKING LOT of mythic+ for loot that's considerably better than raid loot. so just like asmongold.. i think if you do mythic raiding... your gear should be coming from THE HARDEST CONTENT IN THE GAME... not piss easy 14/15's dungeons, and everything in the raid is useless besides a weapon off skitra, and last 2 bosses for 2 pieces of azerite gear.

[@TheMiguiX]

I can't wait to choose between 6 diferent capes

[@Markus-zb5zd]

I'll get 6 capes and 3 trousers

[@rishi1299]

Get your super hero pants on buddy. Time to fly high.

[@endocry]

I am WoW's toxic playerbase that is never happy.

[@TrazelLoL]

@@endocry the joke ----/ you

[@endocry]

@@TrazelLoL you sure?

[@thecamodo]

“Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game.” - Soren Johnson (gamedev on Civilisation) Blizzard is in a difficult spot with this idea, which as I understand from Ion is essentially what they're trying to tackle. If there is no barrier to respeccing your talents, covenant, soulbinds, etc. then you will be expected to do so before each pull in a raid or before each dungeon *in a high-level environment*. This goes against certain psychographics' definitions of fun, especially those who want to make their own viable build around an interesting ability. Blizz trying to restrict this is bound to make people who actually do play at a high level frustrated, because to them (psychographic: spikes), optimization is an essential part of the fun. The main frustration I see is that these restrictive systems are in place because there is an expectation in public groups that people will always use optimal builds. Public groups are more likely to have the people who aren't as interested in optimization, hence the tension. The result, however, is not that the community will change overnight and suddenly everyone will stop expecting people to optimize, it will probably be that people are hard locked (instead of soft locked by gold) into making optimal choices if they want to join those groups. It may stratify people and allow similar-minded people to join guilds, but that's hopeful.

[@TheDeiphoboz]

Well put, this is what they are trying to combat.

[@jonathanthomas4498]

Using the rpg flag for it and it turns out to be a glorified azerite. Also what we do today for me isn't a problem if I don't want to play with certain specs or servers based on the general view of the community its ok and I think that everyone have their own restrictions beside the ones set by the community for instance I just don't pug hunters not even to a +2 but I disagree with the way the community sees enhance and resto shaman for m+ and I pug them all the time.

[@richardjones8846]

"who cares? " people who don't want to be forced to change specs every fucking boss fight because "you should be this for this fight" for the majority of players (even at mythic top 50 level as i was) i don't want to fucking change my spec every other god damn fight just to get a 1% increase... if i play a class, it's usually a SPEC for a tier... these systems help protect the players from themselves with what you THINK is fine for everyone else to do with changing your spec, talents, and gear every fight, and even for fucking trash. "then you just want to perform worse" we're not all playing in limit (even if i had the option to back in legion).

[@AdrasAdraki]

Shouldnt the solution be to promote players looking for likeminded ppl to play with instead of hurting the fun aspect for other?

[@secbro16]

@@richardjones8846 it's a lot more than 1% between specs of the same class on any given fight. That number is just flat wrong. Also, just because you aren't in limit doesn't mean you can't care about optimizing. That's such an extreme point of view

[@olisifer1266]

Thought I'd heard someone say that soulbinds were going to be spec specific. If not then isn't that the simplest way to fix it

[@daniellucas5522]

The conduits are spec specific, but at this time they've released a post saying that they will be the same across your specs. You're absolutely right though, if they make ONE change to the system this is the most important one.

[@wintera138]

this doesn't quite solve my specific problem of needing an AoE soulbind and a single target soulbind as an MM hunter while only one soulbind per covenant seems made with dps in mind, but it would be a step in the right direction. I think ultimately the real answer is just to let us change soulbinds freely. Any other solution is just a solution to a problem that not being able to do this creates.

[@daniellucas5522]

@@wintera138 They already changed it so that all 3 soulbinds have 3 potency slots, which significantly improves that aspect. And seriously, no. I don't want to have to change my soulbind, path, and slot conduits between everything I do. That isn't fun, it's obnoxious busywork, but I have to do it if I want to contribute properly to my groups.

[@wintera138]

@@daniellucas5522 It's an improvement but it doesn't fix it. The Pelagos soulbind contributes nearly 5% vers at nearly all times and 5% mastery when I use my conduit ability. Those are large benefits with no real equivalents in other kyrian soulbind trees. Lots of people do find optimizing their build for every fight fun. I do. Preach has said he does. If it's obnoxious for you then don't do it. Or download an addon that'll swap them all for you with one button. It's better to have the choice. Why would you rather be stuck being unable to properly contribute to your group than have the option to take a few seconds to make some changes so that you can contribute better? Can't relate.

[@daniellucas5522]

@@wintera138 judging balance based on the second week of beta is hardly realistic. And no, switching talents, trinkets, soulbind, changing which paths are active, and socketing all conduits isn't a few seconds, even if you know every choice in advance. Don't be dishonest. If I can swap it and can't be bothered, that feels bad. If I can swap it, pugs will expect me to swap it. This whole 'if you don't like optimising then just don't do it' is dishonest as fuck, you know full well that isn't an option for anyone who isn't a complete and utter casual. I'm not going to pass up on a 2% increase when progressing if it's available to me, even if it means spending hours over the course of progress fiddling with my loadout. That doesn't mean I enjoy fiddling with it. Wow players have proven that we will do what is optimal whether or not it is fun, because knowing we're weak and could change that feels worse than doing something we don't enjoy. Just look at how many people ground islands in 8.0 and 8.1 and hated every second of the experience. Forcing me to choose between dealing with fiddly, excessively complex loadouts and knowing that I'm less effective than I could be is a really shitty choice. This is the kind of bullshit system that reforging was, where you look up what you have to reforge in some calculator every time you get a new item. It's just not fun for the vast majority of people, it's an annoyance.

[@zegetable]

i just hate how it feels like they confuse rpg with "I spec into 1 type of content". Sometimes sin is good for raid and outlaw is for +s. Why should i choose to lock myself out of content. It doesn't feel like a meaningful choice because I can't spec into mythic plus until we clear the raid. Also it's not always selfish I want to parse the best or w/e. Sometimes you just don't want to make everyone's life harder in the content you are doing TOGETHER. It's a group activity and I don't want to waste the time of the other people in the group and they feel the same way

[@thetruekakokun865]

While choice is a very big thing in RPGs what Blizzard doesn't seem to get is that it is a choice of story path not power. Most modern RPGs also lets you either maximize your character basically becoming a god, or makes it very easy for you to respec at almost no hassle. For me the sad reality is that while I was excited for covenants and experiencing the story there at the end of the day I'm probably just gonna have to go with what is considered the most useful toolkit for raiding, making the whole thing kind of meaningless because there will be no thought behind what I pick. If all I had to choose from where covenant story and cosmetics I would probably actually have to think quite a lot on what I would want to choose because it would only be a choice that mattered to me from a kind of roleplaying perspective.

[@zegetable]

@@thetruekakokun865 yea I agree. Also peoples' choices don't feel very unique if everyone for that class and/or spec picks the same one for raid lol. However, if it was cosmetic stuff could be purely what that person wants for their own reasons

[@thetruekakokun865]

@@zegetable If they wanted to be really out there they could add choice between cosmetics within the covenant so you'd for example have to choose between different armor sets or mounts, truly making one character of a class look different to another of the same class. You could also make the covenant change the way your spells look depending on covenant choice almost like green fire for warlocks, and make you aesthetically different from others of the same class and maybe even empower you to feel like you are a class representing your covenant.

[@zegetable]

@@thetruekakokun865 yea that would be pretty badass

[@kloaf1131]

I think most people misunderstand a lot of things. you aren't locking yourself into content. and the balance of things is only week 2 of beta. his almost over is an exxageration to the highest level.

[@Kindarya]

The one and only complaint I've seen that's justified would be that 15 mythic+ dungeons take a lot longer than the other 2 last options and 5->15 is a much bigger jump than the other 2 have for their last slot. That being said: I think the new cache system looks fantastic and the number of dungeons is a small tweak blizzard can easily do

[@blackbeard5588]

5 15s in a week is a lot

[@tjestelle4886]

Are we assuming that they will tune the raid where everyone can clear normal week one?

[@Drake9w1]

Mythic +15 is mythic raid level loot. Are you saying its easier or better or faster to do a full mythic raid clear for the raid option?

[@tjestelle4886]

Sricharan Rao the goal is not a mythic15 but 15 different mythic dungeons

[@Valkaneer]

"Soul Binds are Azerite Armor and Conduits are your Hear of Azeroth" Yes, how many times do I have to say it, Blizzard just keeps trying to repackage the same systems in a different form that you will be happy with and hoping you won't realize they never really listened and nothing has changed. It's still all Artifact Power, Artifact Knowlege, and still the Netherlight Crucible, they just look different but basically still the same thing. I just don't think I can do another 2 years of this crap.

[@Gromst3rr]

The problem aren't the systems, the problem that blizz is a cocky american business that thinks they know better when they dont even play their own game because that would be "bad"

[@MrT2daTgoogleplus]

@@Gromst3rr blizzard the puppet Activision is the master

[@nalazala7387]

this conduit/soulbind change has really opened my eyes to the issues with the system. this needs to change, bare minimum different specs need to have their own tree to build instead of the character sharing the whole thing so you are forced to change whenever you want to just tank a dungeon for your guild

[@ispear6337]

@@GrappIer you can swap them once a week, yeah. So if you wanna tank a dungeon for your guildies once you either have to do it with a shit soulbind or deal with being stuck in a tanking soulbind setup for the rest of the week.

[@atty7181]

@@ispear6337 so youre assuming the best dps and the best tank soulbind is the same soulbind and you dont have two other full options to figure out? from looking over them this doesnt seem to be a realistic case even in the current status.

[@blurpleshark]

@@atty7181 and as preach said typically 2 out of the 3 soulbinds are meh while that last remaining one completely outperforms the other two

[@craigtrish2011]

" And if you have a different Soulbind per spec, or a different active trait path within a given Soulbind, that will be saved on a per-specialization basis, and will automatically change whenever and wherever you change specializations." - Said by Blizz themselves. Do you own reading instead of being a pathetic child and taking a KZbinrs word as gospel.

[@maxw565]

@@atty7181 but why take that chance? Why not make it change for each spec??

[@blueshoals]

18:48 I'm having a very hard time putting myself in the shoes of someone for whom 60 (!!!) different loadouts to choose from isn't enough. 3 Soulbinds, each with approximately 20 different configurations for how you can adjust your anima flow. Each can have the anima flow changed without restriction and saved on a per-specialization basis. I think that if you cannot utilize the potential to create 60 different loadouts per week to SOMEHOW have an optimal loadout for every type of content you want to do on each spec, then you simply cannot be pleased, and you should leave us casual players out of your madness. 21:12 Why? Because I'm already sweating bullets that I might be pressured into optimizing with JUST the choices I listed above! The idea of having to choose my 9 loadouts (3 specs times 3 soulbinds) out of a selection of 60 (20 anima paths times 3 soulbinds) every week is dreadful! I DREAD it. And you want to multiply all of those choices by the number of conduits in the game on TOP of that?!? Hell no. Hell. No.

[@daniellucas5522]

While I agree fully that they should not be swappable always, potency conduits are spec specific and often in the middle of the tree in a node that can't be skipped. Put a conduit for a spec in that slot and your other specs cannot use that soulbind. Full stop. The only change needed is to stop them being shared across specs. There's no reason that a system with spec-specific upgrades should persist when you change specs, and it's gonna suck hard to feel like you're making your main spec worse by setting up a soulbind for your off-spec.

[@atty7181]

@@daniellucas5522 not all potency are spec specific. If you know that multiple paths may be in use for that certain soulind.. throw in a potency that modifies the covenant ability. Sure it may be .00001% not as optimal, but it does benefit. I agree with this post, not sure how much more blizzard can bend without just saying fuck it.. raiders raid for gear and every one else gets nothing to play with.

[@benp9793]

You'll learn. You'll be affected by the change too.

[@daniellucas5522]

@@benp9793 good job on the condescension and dismissal. Dick.

[@RicksonGM]

@@atty7181 I found that while this is the case, there's very few class-wide potency conduits that seem impactful in the same way spec-specific ones are. I'm not against the current system (aside from the 1 week lockout, I think they should reduce it to maybe 24 hours instead), but they defintley need to sort out the current inequalities between soulbinds with these pinch points and lack of good class-wide conduits to fill the gap.

[@m.h.w.weckseler]

As someone that has played SWTOR, and loved the follower system there, i really wish Blizzard bid something like that. Not just have them stay in your Garrison... i mean, sanctum, but actually travel with you. More, that the same follower is at your side from expansion to expansion. Can you imagine, having met Soulbinder Tuulani in WOD, and that she would still be at your side, tossing you a heal or two when you get in over your head, having had special quests when your influence with her grew. Blizzard has chosen several times that they can do it. Pretty much every expansion there is a patch where someone travels with you and fights with you, only to be totally ignored again as soon as new content comes out. They are so proud of their Advanced AI. How about a follower that has it?

[@luuxii]

I absolutely hate any zombie npc tagging along, getting in combat, keeping me in combat and just looking dumb.

[@birch1995]

well if they don't overtune it like they did in SWTOR that'd be nice. right now it's like they're all spamming lay on hands

[@harrymartin6517]

Legion expansions already have this

[@m.h.w.weckseler]

@@luuxii The SWTOR followers do none of this... alright, they do look a bit dumb at times. They only start fighting when you do, and they get out of combat when you do. If a WoW rogue would use vanish, the follower would vanish as well. The biggest problem with SWTOR followers is their pathing. If there is a table or a box, bet money on it that soon they will be standing on it.

[@m.h.w.weckseler]

@@harrymartin6517 True, and my point is, when have you hung with your Legion follower the last time? Hell, when have you hing with your Nazjatar followers the last time? In SWTOR you get your first follower at around lvl 10 (i think), and you can choose to have them with you right into endgame. Can you imagine meeting this 'fellow adventurer' in a Barrens quest, and have him/her still be there doing world quests with you today?

[@Spika94]

I kind of get why they don't want you to keep switching. They want to give you a choice where they otherwise wouldn't give you a choice. Like, even with Azerite armor, in the past, if a piece of gear dropped, it would just be a dps piece, and you wouldn't have a choice at all, but they gave you the choice of having that piece of gear be for whatever you wanted when they otherwise wouldn't give you that choice. So having the option to change a shoulder piece from a DPS one to a Healer one is pretty huge actually. In the past, you would just have to find a different one that might have taken a couple weeks. People see that there are options, which leads people to wanting to keep switching around those options, but really, Blizzard could just go back and not give you the choice at all, but people then would just suddenly agree to that change, because people can't see any option, "out of sight, out of mind". Even though that would just be worse for everybody.

[@galadinwow]

What are you talking about? It's not different. Everyone in the game now just has multiple Azerite gear sets because it's so cost prohibitive to swap Azerite traits, and every class has BiS traits so there's not even a "meaningful choice" to be made. It might as well be static gear.

[@Spika94]

@@galadinwow I just said I understand Blizzard's reasoning for it. Also, yes, BiS is a thing, but imagine if you want to play healer and then find an Azerite shoulder piece. Even if it isn't BiS, you can pick the healing trait and make do with that. But in the past, you might have just found something that was good for DPS, but not really that great for Healer. You find a piece of gear, decide you want it to be for your healer spec, and there you have a piece of gear tailored for healer. The simple fact that they let you change that healing piece to a dps piece is huge. And I am not saying I agree with anything of what I have said, I simply just understand the reasoning for why they made it the way they did.

[@DirtyDooney22]

i understand it sounds good on paper but its definitely not going to work how they want it to just sharing my thoughts nothing negative implied:)

[@Impale64]

Make conduits per spec, just like essences are. The system is already there to utilise. You swap spec and your conduits swap to whatever you've set them for in that soulbind.

[@Assywalker]

( They are. Preach fucked up. ) Edit: I was wrong. Ion apparently clarified, that condiuts DONT change with spec, which is totally retarded.

[@MA-ox1tv]

that's already the case i believe .

[@Drager00]

Right, it instantly fixes a lot of the locked/lockout issues with the soulbind system. The one week lockout sucks, but the only other option would be having to do weird things with raid lockouts locking you to a specific set of conduits. Since the main reason is so that players aren't swapping conduits every raid encounter.

[@needsanameedit4982]

@@MA-ox1tv The path of the soulbind abilities change per spec but the conduits (most of which are spec specific) can only be changed once per week on a soulbind.

[@tnexus13]

@@needsanameedit4982 So for example on a shaman, you have your soulbind tree, one path is elemental and another is restoration, with you able to tune your conduits within those paths?

[@Brigadune]

I mean if soulbinds are azerite armor where you unlock the abilities once, and it's not a random drop, then I'm cool with it. The only thing I hated about azerite armor was that I would be farming azerite to unlock the exact same azerite traits but on higher ilvl gear. I didn't have a problem with the locking in the traits on the gear

[@Brigadune]

and to be fair the idea of going back to only having just gear and talents to customize your character sounds boring at this point, especially when they are all easily swappable

[@dark666105]

technically with the pvp box you get 2, putting pvp in there also lowers the amount of loot you get.

[@the1andonlyabz]

not to mention now who like to do all content is forced to choose what he wants to play ...

[@MrDamnlolSenior]

the %2$d is a replacement string for a number. so it will probably not be precentage based. rather it will be based of the xth key level from your top runs. So say the number would be 10 then and you do 9 mythic +10s and 1 mythic +2 your reward will be based of the +2

[@dzonc]

This. Ignore the % unless other code references calculated values. E.g. Complete mythic level 10 dungeons. The reward is based on the lowest level of your top 3 runs.

[@Grimmay]

what i hear is if i do a M +15 and then want to help people doing Mythic runs i will get Screwed out of the M+15 so i will literally do a single M+15 and if people ask for help on lower keys or even normal Myhics i cant help cuz it will most likely change the reward to something lower

[@richardommundsen2417]

@@Grimmay this is my worry. I worry about feeling penalised for playing with lower geared friends and helping guilder gear alt. Or needing to have a "boost alt" that I dont actually want to gear that I just dont care what I get from the box. At the very least I hope I'm right in thinking M0 doesn't count

[@MrDamnlolSenior]

@@Grimmay depends on how big the number is. if its like 3 there is a consideration for just doing the 3 mythic 15s then helping your friends

[@George-vb1yr]

Master Grim no, it wont. You will still have an option for +15 pieces, but one of the pieces will also be a +4 piece that you carried in, to choose from. It just adds more choices. As long as you finish multiple +15s in a majority, the majority of pieces will be +15.

[@dylanfarris7647]

I cant wait to see the threads from people who run 15 M+ for the week and get 3 shit choices instead of 1 lol

[@ZeroKOR1]

i will be one right there with the sad face. I would never run 15 tho for items i kind of enjoy doing mythic+ and key pushing myself

[@Xsetsu]

That's what is gonna be baffling. You have more choice. You didn't get what you want, but you have more choice and are going to closer to tuning it to what you want.

[@Mech1000]

Its probably going to happen, but hopefully there is less of that early on while progressing. I'm hoping the currency option will have a vendor that sells everything and you can upgrade those items like the benthic system. Pick your item, do a +15, get 12000 currency. Purchase a 420, and maybe get it up to 450 in one week, then next week upgrade it to 460 or until cap.

[@oplawlz]

3 pairs of bracers inc xD

[@Mech1000]

@@oplawlz Toss in a back upgrade when you have a legendary cloak

[@tiagop.6492]

I've seen footage from beta showing that soulbinds change according to your spec. Considering this, you'd have three choices of soulbinds per spec. For a class like mages, you'd have 9 different choices of trees in total, being able to reespec them once a week if you need to. I can't see how this is not enough.

[@Thunderstruck324]

Well lets say you want to do pvp, raiding and m+ like a friend of mine who plays warrior, he had his azerite gear respecs go up to ridiculous amounts of gold because he played fury in both pve and pvp. He wanted to push both m+ and pvp rating as far as he could so he kept respecing one piece instead of using another which would give him maybe a 2-3% lower performance, small i admit, but noticeable when you’re pushing for the best you possibly can. Now imagine one soulbind route giving a 2-3% preformance boost over all others for two different things (say pvp and pve). That’s the problem we have with the system, without it being balanced absolutely flawlessly for every single spec in the game, which is an impossible task by default, it locks you into only one type of endgame for any one given spec if you want to gain maximum performance from it.

[@galadinwow]

Is it because you're blind? One soulbind will not be good for every type of content. If I spec my soulbind for PvE and then my mate asks me to go do some arena with him I'll have to say "Sorry I can't, I have a gimped soulbind. Maybe next week."

[@tiagop.6492]

@@galadinwow This is a simple discussion. I don't get why you need to start your answer with "are you blind?". Anyway, my point is, if you have one of your soulbinds pvp oriented and want to do some pve, just make your other soulbind pve oriented, you have 3 per spec. I do get the point of Thunderstruck, that if one of the soulbinds is much more powerful in more than one type of content, it might be a problem. But I think it's not a very hard task for blizzard to have one soulbind tree to be better for raids, another for m+ and another for pvp. Or have all soulbinds with similar efficiency, making it so your conducts is what actually dictates the type of content the soulbind will be better at. Honestly, I don't think it's a problem, and I also don't think it's the type of content that needs friction, so, if so many people are concerned, they should just let you reset the soulbind whenever you want.

[@sk3ddi]

What if my best soul binds for pvp are different than my soul binds for pve on my arms warrior the same way I need to change my essences for m+ that means I’m locked in every week anyway because I prioritize pvp but now my damage is actually crap in m+ and it’s hard to get inv to groups am I wrong about this?

[@HaEngelmann]

@@Consumer0001 From what I've read you can use the conduits multiple times, so you wouldn't loose out on anything in that scenario.

[@Sidneyallenwaterman]

@@barick4183 I think the best way to do it is too reintroduce or rework talents and give more paths to players on how they want to play their class. Yes, there will always be people that want to choose the "best" but if you make the gaps not that big, most people will end up choosing fun and build an identity around it. The thing is most classes lack deepness in how they work and meaningful talent choices. Imagine being a survival hunter more oriented in a range chrakram build ? It's simply not good enough atm to build a gameplay and an identity around it, but this is how rpgs are made of.

[@DirtyDooney22]

@@barick4183 they need to stop treating it as an RPG in an MMORPG

[@richardjones8846]

who cares? people who don't want to be forced to change specs every fucking boss fight because "you should be this for this fight" for the majority of players (even at mythic top 50 level as i was) i don't want to fucking change my spec every other god damn fight just to get a 1% increase... if i play a class, it's usually a SPEC for a tier... these systems help protect the players from themselves with what you THINK is fine for everyone else to do with changing your spec, talents, and gear every fight, and even for fucking trash. "then you just want to perform worse" we're not all playing in limit (even if i had the option to back in legion).

[@kalaidoskop9962]

At the moment I'm playing monk, before that i played paladin, before that i was Druid. What have all of those in common: Speccs for every role. That's what i like about them. I switch regularly between the roles, sometimes every other mythic+ run. i also like to try things out. Rearanging every aspect of the style i wanna play (especially as a healer). Choosing a covenant will suck, because i have to either compromise or give one role priority. One week Lockout will suck the most. You wanna mess around with your conduits? Beware, mate, if you don't like it you will suffer this reset. :( Just let me goof around Blizzard.

[@fragiquerence]

I feel the same, mate. Last tier I was healing raid and tanking m+ for weekly/farming. So blizzard basically tell us to commit to one role being a hybrid class. Freaking nice, that is why we love hybrids - for playing only one spec. And let us have more shit like horrific visions, I think we had so much fun doing it having my heal spec most geared.

[@rosco3]

I'm waiting on more info but if this is the reality on launch I will probably main a pure DPS class. I love switching roles but it's already painful enough with Azerite /Corruption/Essences

[@RoboBongoCuckooCop]

I also hope that if you target a specific dungeon for a specific item that you will get to choose an item from that dungeon, which will help those who are targeting specific pieces

[@itskhro]

6:55 Shoutout to that Lay on Hands, jesus christ

[@J0In94]

I play Healer in my raid but currently Tank in mythic+ since you have only 2 tanks in the guild, but 5 healers and 18 dps. With that you gonna have a hard time forming dungeon groups consistently. And im sure as hell not gonna play Tank with my Healer conduits, but now i can't even switch them because they have 1 week cooldown. Who comes up with these ideas and why do they hate people playing more than one specc of a class so much?

[@joelazaro461]

I want to main a Paladin and I'm interested in all three specs, and it feels great to be able to step in to fill any role that is needed, but I'm concerned that there are going to be some choices that lock me more into one role than another. I'm sure that some classes are going to be worse off than others. I'm just going to pray that it works out okay.

[@J0In94]

@@joelazaro461 I play a druid and currently i play all 4 speccs (some more successful than other...feral...). It took time to have gear for all four of them but at least now i can switch them freely whenever I want to. If this goes live as it is now, I will never be able to play more than one specc on a competitive level - which completely ruins shadowlands for me.

[@d0gM3at]

I'm getting tired of all these systems being pushed each expansion that basically reworks how I play my character but then ends up getting thrown out for the next expansion of game altering systems.

[@seventus]

Same here man. Borrowed power is cancer. I wish they'd just combine old talent trees with new ones for passives/actives and stop re-inventing the game every expansion.

[@seventus]

@maccajoe No one said we had to retain everything from all past expansions you 1head.

[@TacBlades]

Would it be dull if every expansion was the same bringing nothing new or trying anything different ?

[@seventus]

@@TacBlades Of course, but the problem is that they throw the baby out with the bathwater every expansion. For example, in Bfa they missed the opportunity to integrate all the good stuff from artifact weapons into the base toolkits and instead scrapped it all. There are many other examples, but that one will suffice.

[@TacBlades]

@@seventus but they keep the M+ system

[@Mech1000]

If they are going to do a percentage base, they should have a slider on the left side showing what gear level you will be unlocking. So if you do 4 Mythic 8 dungeons, the slider would show an item level based on your averages. If you started to do some low mythic (+2), the slider would start to go down showing that you're trying to cheese the system and need to keep progressing harder dungeons to get the reward value you're looking for. Similar to raid bosses. But they also should have some indicator if you "Want" this run to count toward your max percentage. If you're in a guild with people trying to help push other players along, turn off the tracker and don't count a Mythic+3 to hurt your higher end percentages... if that makes any sense.

[@Clodas13]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t this system reward players who, instead of having one character who plays multiple specs, has multiple characters of the same class and keeps them locked into spec/roll? Meaning right now I play prot/fury/arms in M+, arms in pvp, fury/arms in raids. Often switching around into all three specs within a single evening of play... It seems to me that with this system there’s very real value to me just having 3 different warriors...even considering that triples my loot needs but ultimately frees me to min/max That’s insane...this is early d3 days when you just rolled another barbarian to play a different setup, instead of swapping setups manually because it was so inconvenient and frustrating

[@TheDescender4]

This is currently the case yes. Not only for soulbinds, but for covenants as well for some classes.

[@ragerblade82]

Because group finder follows the end game meta, and pugging life forces them to follow meta and to follow these people.

[@mortenjusk]

cant wait to do all this and still get nothing :D

[@Red1Green2Blue3]

You will always get at the very least currency

[@Karashote]

Why do they want us to only play 1 spec so damn hard. It's insane, let us play all of our specs freely god damnit.

[@BogzySama]

Because some people bitch about cHoIcE every ocasion they get and this is what blizzard comes up with.

[@adderalljunkie6144]

@@BogzySama Nah they complaining about choices because they are always gated everything is gated all the time. The age of blaming the players is long gone. No one asks for any of this crap, it's all designed around "engagement metrics" it has nothing to do with the community.

[@zechsblack5891]

I have the most fun doing guild m+ and mostly-solo world content. Both involve swapping between dps and tank based on whether or not there is a big boss involved or a shortage of guildies. That's fun to me. If I rock up to an elite WQ boss and there's no one around or a healer and dps waiting on the side, I'm thrilled to swap to tank and knock it out. Or if I'm alone I like being able to say "ok I can solo this as a tank, it might just take 8min to do so" If our guild happens to have 7-9 people wanting to do m+, I'm happy to swap to tank, split into two groups, and lead the dungeon I'm more familiar with. Thinking back to pre 8.3, I didn't mind running to swap Az traits at all. What I did mind was spending 200k gold doing it over the course of a weekend because I happened to be yoyoing around with my guild. Tbh I kind of enjoyed the short trip into zuldazar to maximize my output when the guild needed me to tank or I felt like practicing. So I ended up doing that blizz wanted, I stopped trying to meta each spec. I just left my Az traits as dps since that's what I played more often thru the expansion, and was always slightly weaker than max when I played a tank. That's what they wanted right? 3 greyed out dps traits to punish me for wanting to have a good time with friends or take on challenge solo content? All this shit should 100% be spec based. The essences are and I had absolutely no problem or stress about them. I even got to make fun little trips to swap between aoe and single target offensive essences based on whether I was doing group/solo content.

[@zechsblack5891]

I mean I guess maybe I play the game wrong... Low pop server, low pop dead relic of a guild where we are just nice and helpful to each other. I guess I should avoid variety of play and just do exactly one thing all the time. To me meta swapping has never been a chore because I'm not playing competitive high end shit all the time. It's something I like to do because it adds a layer of simple complexity to the game. Sure I'll skip maxing myself if I'm just doing easy shit, but I love being able to take a moment and fine tune my character if the content or activity makes it worthwhile. That's fun to me.

[@daniellucas5522]

I like the soulbind system for playing one spec. It's like having 3 sets of azerite armor with significantly more control over what traits are in each. Them persisting across specs is utterly absurd. It's really really unpleasant to have to actively nerf your main spec in order to have a soulbind that's usable for your offspec. That one simple fix would alleviate a lot of my concerns with the soulbind system. I know players like Preach enjoy optimising in detail between every encounter - I think being able to switch conduits between every encounter is way too far. I will feel obligated to switch them based on the boss, and I will very much not enjoy doing so. Switching soulbinds between each encounter is fine - happy with that being part of our 'loadout', and I think the amount of options within the soulbinds and being able to switch paths will be plenty enough to do all reasonable optimisation at that level. But for god's sake, don't make me nerf my main to play an offspec. That's just utterly horrendous. I don't even think this is 'fine for most people', I think this sucks for anyone who plays more than one spec in their class. It feels really bad to make a decision that actively harms your main spec.

[@Clodas13]

I just commented about this as well. It’s not even an xpack killer, might be a wow killer. It incentivizes having multiple characters of the same class in order to multi spec / multi role / pve-pvp. And if that’s the case, high end players will have a pvp warrior and a pve warrior minimum, instead of letting themselves be gimped. And if THAT’S the case it’ll become meta, and everyone will feel obligated to do that or drop aspects of the game, or worse, quit for good Having said that it’s an easy fix like you said, just let each spec have 3 soulbind loadouts that stay tied to the spec

[@Rich-in6ds]

Completely agree with you. Soulbinds are a really brutal hybrid tax. Easily avoided by them linking Soulbinds to specs. I don’t want to have to level two druids so my feral and resto can both have their best Soulbinds. Bad system.

[@elcanaldelargan8575]

In Blizzard's post, it literaly say this " And if you have a different Soulbind per spec, or a different active trait path within a given Soulbind, that will be saved on a per-specialization basis, and will automatically change whenever and wherever you change specializations." which means they will be saved for each spec, idk how Preach skipped to see this, really.

[@daniellucas5522]

@@elcanaldelargan8575 That does not include conduits, which have been confirmed to not change based on spec. Doesn't help to have a different path saved when you have 3 potency conduits for one spec locked into that soulbind - it's going to suck for the other specs no matter which paths you take.

[@sinistergazII]

Your first worry is something I agree with. Changing every fight is kinda fucked for conduits, when switching soulbinds should be enough non-talent/gear switching decision making. Having to change conduits, soulbinds, talents and gear (imagine if covenants could be hot swapped) might be interesting in a game like PoE but no WoW for me. Regarding your offspec concern, information directly from wowhead under their soulbinds breakdown and specifically under conduits: Your Conduit choices are spec specific and will automatically change when you switch specs. I would say you won't need to worry about that. The problem will lie in collecting or how we rank up these conduits but maybe that's a design decision we may think is fair. If the wowhead info is correct then your offspec will not actively harm your main spec conduit choices.

[@tjkx1]

Maybe I read it completely wrong, but I was under the impression that you can have different conduits in the same slots for different specs. Also you can use the same conduit for multiple specs if you want. If you changed from Fire to Frost on mage it sounded like the routing of the tree and the conduits would change to whatever set up you put in place for that spec.

[@JamesMusicus]

Preach I'm not sure your information at 5:35 is accurate. I'm pretty sure the "%" symbol is part of a pointer to a database entry, not a reference to some percentage weighting calculation. MY reading of that string was that it would give you a reward based on your (for example) 2nd or 3rd highest run of the week. This seemed like it was intended to prevent people from running 9 +2 keys and 1 +10 key.

[@George-vb1yr]

It’s essentially what he said though. “So you don’t run 9 +1 and 1 +10”.

[@Rich-in6ds]

One thing you overlooked is it’s max 1 weekly item. Right now we can get two (M+ and PvP). So if you’re someone who does one key and caps conquest, you’ll actually be worse off because you’ll get 2 options for 1 item, rather than 2 items. It’s also going to be much slower to gear alts with m+ dropping 1/4th as much gear. In 8.3 I could get an alt to 460 ilvl within days of dinging. Not much chance of that in SL.

[@mattarium9408]

it bothers me when blizzard complains about their systems when players use it the way they actually want to use it. and then for example tier sets, removed them because they were boring, but then later they add them in as legendary effects in shadowlands

[@mathisrodriguez3461]

If I remember correctly they said : sets were boring because it was locking some slots of gear. But in fact azerit was not really different in term of constrain lol.

[@ralfrudi3963]

@@mathisrodriguez3461 Nah think about it again, azerith gave you dozens of different items for a slot while a set piece is literally 1 single item for a slot. Sure there is a bis azerith item but most specs don't need a very specific one but allow you to choose from a couple of items which all feature your most important trait or you can mix and match different azerith pieces if you only need a specific trait once. Set pieces literally were use 4 out of specific 5/6 items or lose 20-30% dps. 6 Only during legion and when your spec had to use a legendary on a set slot you are back to 5. Only hard constrain came in 8.3 in form of cara+nzoth azerith items for some classes. But if you cleared mythic during the last patch then you are done with the expansion anyway. Not saying azerith is great or not at all restrictive, but still much less than t-sets were when talking about locked slots.

[@snownight7]

I miss tier sets. Back when raiding was worthwhile

[@kallmannkallmann]

Sets coming back tho

[@mattarium9408]

@@mathisrodriguez3461 thats exactly what they said, and then they proceeded to lock out the same slots again, well besides legs.

[@HoneyChonker]

My problem: After Ilgynoth we decided (like most guilds at our level) to extend each week until we killed Cara and Nzoth - meaning no mythic raid bosses killed for a couple of months. Would this mean we wouldn't get the highest reward from the vault?

[@PandaArchaedas]

Why not like a 2 to 4 hour cooldown for respeccing conduits? Then you couldn't change it per fight or per key but you still have the option to swap over to other content in the same day. Just my thoughts. Great vid Preach! Love ur content

[@Nagassh]

Why not just not have a lockout and let people change their 3 dps conduits at will. Realistically you're probably swapping 1-2 at most and not even on every fight. It's not that big of a hassle. It honestly might fuck over casuals wanting to just play around with the system more than it fucks with high end raiders - I know for warlocks some of the conduits are really niche so opting out of them won't be THAT bad, but it irks me that I can't just play around with things at all if I want a SB for each spec.

[@karlzone2]

@@Nagassh Exactly. If Blizzard had any faith at all in their balancing team, they would allow this to be swappable at will. Even still, there are so many options and combinations of soulbind traits + conduits + legendaries + trinkets + gear + specs that you will want to swap it around based on different situations, and you will want to experiment with different options. I just don't see the harm in making them swappable. Most people won't bother swapping them anyway. And those that do, they do it because they want to be optimal. And for them, just removing the option of being optimal, just feels like shit.

[@Mitzoplick]

I would like the m+ rewards to be based on the loot tables of the dungeons you run, so that you can more effectively target items.

[@rosco3]

I wouldn't... it would make you need to skip even more keys and target farm specific dungeons even more.

[@HOCScott]

I've been having a tough time figuring out a main for Shadowlands. Can you give us an update on classes with Legendaries?

[@evanthibodeaux7834]

Slox a lot of those are incomplete or are being changed soon, if you want to get a feel for what it’s like now the wowhead class roundups are great

[@vidgetgaming]

Didn't they say that the soulbinds were changed to be spec specific?

[@Markus-zb5zd]

They did, I think he missed it

[@karlzone2]

Soulbinds, yes. Conduits, no. So you'll have a different anima flow through your soulbind per spec (so you can get the most optimal soulbind traits for each spec), but you'll still have a fireball damage increase conduit stuck in your "second row, middle column throughput conduit slot", even if you spec into frost. The point of the design is so that you'll go a different route through your soulbinds for your different specs. They want people to have different loadouts to each other. The reality of it is, that it makes it impossible to optimize more than one spec and one damage profile (single target vs multi target) at a time (each week).

[@Markus-zb5zd]

@@karlzone2 not sure, I understood it differently

[@ThisMoustache]

Just scrap conduits and covenant abilities and give everybody a new talent row and some nice setbonuses...

[@Duffy21290]

That fixes so much bullshit! Unfortunately I can't see them doing that. Even though it would be miracle.

[@richardjones8846]

they're doing tier sets for the 2nd or 3rd tier of the expansion. why would they just scrap their entire concept of the shadowlands and core feature just because people can't change it on demand and a really few people get fucked? there is dramatic differences in class to class abilities for each cov atm, sure... but that's a tuning thing. the signature abilities are being tuned currently.. am i hopeful? lol no, but it'll be fine for the vast majority even at top 100 (speaking from that place).

[@thenjry]

I like this system overall, very nice. It could use some refinement, but solid foundation. I imagine some of these completion numbers are in place with the intention for them to be paired down from feedback. I would like the completion threshold numbers to stay the same and to have the top threshold level of a content's choice to have an additional incentive for completing it. Example: If you're able to complete 15 +10s that week, you get guarentee one of your choices you earned is from a specific dungeon, if you're hunting a weapon or trinket, for example. Just an idea.

[@tiredtyrant370]

Blizzard sure thinks hard on how to delay our rewards.

[@wintera138]

yeah like im hoping to play a Kyrian Marksmanship Hunter in shadowlands and the problem is the Kyrian have exactly one good dps soulbind, Pelagos, and all the others are basically worthless on that front. And, Marksmanship has exactly three conduits that benefit single target damage and one that is exclusively for AoE. so do I use this one good soulbind for the 3 conduits which are obviously optimal for single target, and then have to use a less valuable soulbind to include the AoE conduit in?

[@a40989d1]

Anyone else miss Ghostcrawler?

[@Drake9w1]

For a very long time now

[@nedbear1970]

So basically you can get to choose between up to 9 items per week but its still only ONE weekly item instead of 1 for pvp and 1 for m+?

[@andrewshandle]

In PvP you get conquest and can spend it at the vendor now plus you can get items after matches/BGs. You'll still get lots of gear.

[@lily_evildm2317]

For me one of the funnest aspects of dungeons and raids is adapting to the situation I am facing as perfectly as possible. I am sad Blizzard wants me to not do this.

[@gHGhej]

With respect, even you said as perfectly as possible so I cannot see why a few aspects need forward planning and having some in built limitations? I am not a raider but just curious.

[@BeepBoop335]

Same. What you describe is player agency. The term Blizzard claims they want, but do everything to prevent.

[@Tobizard1]

i dont understand why they dont just make one soulbind for each role. that way they can focus on using the souldbinds to spice up each role. that sounds way more fun and focused to me. like yeah there are still going to be people that min max those soulbinds but its literally a difference between "which of the 2 branches are you picking"

[@hotramen5952]

i thought blizz said each spec was going to get its own conduit loadout, that would switch automatically when you switched spec, for all 3 conduits.

[@Azevin]

Blizzard said each spec will have its own "anima flow" (ie: pathway) within the soulbinds. Even though many of the conduits provide spec-specific benefits, the selected conduits within the soulbinds do not change when you respec at this time. The only way to change your frost conduits within a soulbind to fire conduits is with the weekly reforge system Blizzard added.

[@maxw565]

Nah man that would be not enough of a choice. Now even if youre playing a hybrid class, your role is a choice now

[@Nuuboat]

their reasoning is most likely, they dont want you to just run around with the same soulbind all the time for every content. They want you to think, "oh im doing this now, ill use that soul bind, and for what comes next ill use another soul bind." Basicaly the way you are using conduits they want you to use soul binds.

[@xX0BlackCloud0Xx]

But why? I don't want to think I want to play the game. I don't need more unecessary thinkering before enjoying my game.

[@SupachargedGaming]

That's like.. the exact opposite of their 'most likely' reasoning.

[@Nuuboat]

@@SupachargedGaming Why do you think that? To me it seems obvious they want us to NOT switch the conduits out all the time. And wants us to switch the soul binds so that the "rpg ellement" they made is being used. The way it is now, if you want to change spec, playstyle or role, you would have to switch your soul binds, thanks to the 1 week CD on switching conduits. Lets do it from the top. Of the 3 soulbinds available at launch 1 will in most cases be superior to the other 2. Meaning you want to use that for most content. But the conduits will be vastly different depending on spec, singletarget/aoe, role, and pve/pvp. So you would want 1 set of conduits for each of these categories, but you only want the one superior soulbind, meaning you would have to switch all your conduits betwen doing these different things. But there is a one week CD on switching conduits, wich forces you to spec your 3 soulbinds with different conduits for doing different things even if that means you cant optimize your performance for everything. I base this on my observation that a sub par soulbind with optimal conduits is better than an optimal soulbind with sub optimal conduits (for the content being played). Conduits are also more spell specific than the actual soulbinds so specing healer with only dps conduits sloted will mean you HAVE to change soulbind for other conduits.

[@SupachargedGaming]

@@Nuuboat ohhh i misread you i missed the dont. My bad nuuboat.

[@Nuuboat]

@rick melethron rick Exactly! But Blizz dont care. Or just dont know how to fix it. It's all kinda silly if you think about it, all these artefact knowledge, azerite, soulbinds are there to add content that in other games (RPGs in general) are being added by leveling. Its the same thing, but they trivialized leveling so now they have to replace it with something else. Something that gives a sense of slow and steady progression. they dug a hole by trying to be avant garde and now they dont know how to get out of it.

[@wulfson]

The usefulness of the weekly chest change is gonna be really dependent on where those numbers settle. Speaking for myself, I don't like raiding, don't like PvP, and my group doesn't have enough time to squeeze in more than maybe 3 M+/week. With the current targets, that means it's no different for me than before, 'cause I'll never get more than 1 option. I'd really prefer to just get meaningful loot from the dungeon runs themselves, in my case. It was great being able to target what I wanted and work to get it, back before the whole weekly chest thing started, as opposed to whatever random crap the chest decides to give me. As for conduits, why not make one slot a wildcard instead of forcing 3 DPS on everything? Maybe I really did want 3 tanking conduits.

[@finneas9894]

It will be better than then current system even if you can only do 3 dungeons a week because you can pick an end game currency instead if your reward isnt an upgrade. And if you can only do 3 dungeons a week thats your own problem, thats 1 hour 30 minutes of end game content a week, your barely playing the game. Dont you think the people who spend the most effort on their characters should get far bigger rewards? Raiders who complete all 9 checkmarks despite not enjoying pvp or mythic plus should be rewarded for it. And I dont get your point about 'back before the weekly chest I could work towards my rewards from dungeons'. Before the weekly chest there were no rewards from dungeons that were anywhere near raiding or pvp gears level, it was irrelevant gear anyway. In legion and BfA, you can literally get gear from weekly m+ thats stronger than any gear from the current raid tier (trinkets/weapons/bis stats gear), that was never the case before in wow so Im not sure what your argument about.

[@benjaminjacobs5382]

Definitely love getting a choice at the end of the week; I have hated the BfA weekly chest so much. But if I run like 4 +2-5's in a week, then push hard at the end of the week and complete like a +10 for the first time, I would like my reward to reflect my new achievement (I know those numbers are low; I'm a casual, unfortunately)

[@George-vb1yr]

It will. You will always have at least one choice of gear from your highest completed key.

[@benjaminjacobs5382]

@@George-vb1yr which is not very different than BfA. It'll be one piece at way higher ilvl than the other two, which will always have potential to be the best gear in the set. So it'll be another pair of bracers (I got downgrade bracers 6 weeks in a row recently) in the 'best' slot or 1-2 consolation side-grade pieces. I guess that's better, but still not great. It sets you up for disappointment when your one good piece is shit Seems pretty silly to not just use the current system where your highest key determines the ilvl of your choices, then just give 2-3 choices

[@ignispurgatorius5297]

@@benjaminjacobs5382 The problem is simply that people would just fill with low trash tier instances othertwise, as preach also pointed out. Which imho kills the whole thing, as I don't think the effort for 1, let alone 2 more options in m+ is worth it. With that time investment I might as well just go and grab myself a raid that raids 2-3 more days a week to increase my chance of clearing mythic in the first place.

[@galadinwow]

​@@benjaminjacobs5382 What are you talking about? No information anywhere even remotely suggests that is the case. All your options from mythic dungeons will be based on the highest percentage difficulty level of m+ you do

[@benjaminjacobs5382]

@@ignispurgatorius5297 I'm talking about the video? He says the second option rewards will be based on the difficulty level of the highest % of dungeons you did for the week. So, if he's correct, someone who does 10 m+5's but completes one single m+10 will have one gear option at a +10 reward level and one at a +5 reward level. Watch the vid

[@AlpiEscapes]

Will you cover how the new raid has the same mechanics on every boss to "balance out" covenants?

[@Oriontrollsftw2]

that’s likely for balancing their damage and performance in the right now, they will have different mechanics in the future, obviously.

[@AlpiEscapes]

@@Oriontrollsftw2 thats maybe true, but I can't figure out how to balance the signiture abilities without giving at least 2 bosses every tier a bleed just to make the kyrian choice "feel good".

[@Mr91Jmay]

Should probably just wait and test the bosses rather than do a pointless video guessing something we are about to know in a weeks time.

[@elcanaldelargan8575]

Preach, I think you messed it up with the conduits, man. In Blizzard's post, they say, literaly, this "And if you have a different Soulbind per spec, or a different active trait path within a given Soulbind, that will be saved on a per-specialization basis, and will automatically change whenever and wherever you change specializations" which means there is not 'one soulbind for all your specs whatever conduits you put on them', it means, if you are in a spec, you can put the conduits u want (and will be that way for at least a week), and when you change your spec, that second spec will have that soulbind with the conduits for that second spec, not for the previous one.

[@treerover5376]

These youtubers just wanna get their clickbait content out as fast as possible.

[@kloaf1131]

that is incorrect from the way I read it. all conduits stay but the paths will be locked in on the a spec bases. meaning you can have each soulbind contain different spec conduits and it will change to the path your using.

[@elcanaldelargan8575]

@@kloaf1131 I might have understood it wrong, someone said Bizz confirmed that conduits would not change, but I have seen nothing about it, just like the opposite when I checked the post in my mother tongue, and when asked about a link to the info, the answer has been total silence. If I'm wrong and conduits do not change with spec, then I agree it still can improve... like a lot.

[@buscava]

I just feel bad for the druid players who like playing all 4 specs. You get 3 soulbinds for their 4 specs. So good. Luckily, feral is in a bad spot and guardian is super boring so maybe they're fine with dropping a spec for the next 2 years lol

[@vidgetgaming]

I'm pretty sure that they said that the soulbinds would be spec specific.

[@buscava]

@@vidgetgaming not sure where you saw that as they for sure aren't. Conduits are spec specific. If soulbinds were then thered be 4 for druids, which there isnt. Conduits are spec specific so if you want to change conduits in a soulbind to another spec you'll be on cooldown for a week.

[@ParallelsGaming]

so if im understanding this right, we lose the weekly PvP chest? so instead of choosing a targeted PvP peice AND a targeted PvE peice from seperate chests, it goes down the route of i either have to choose if i want to progress PvE *OR* PvP? as someone who plays arena at 2.3k and does mythic raiding at a 10/12 level....that seems extremely scuffed for one of my routes of progression

[@Xatox262]

Great change! In my opinion its a pretty great change to keep the amount of loot the same but keeping the option of giving you a variety of items to chose from by playing more (which probably the majority of pve do anyways) so in either case your pretty much ALWAYS ahead of the old system.... ALSO gives you a greater chance to get a Weapon/Trinket which is probably the most important and hard to come by item. Thank you for the information and the great video, i appreciate it!

[@nickmessner700]

So can someone who knows a little more clarify something for me? The screen says Mythic Dungeons. It doesn't specify Mythic Plus. So if for example I did a Mythic Sanguine Depths then 4 M+ would I have 5 dungeons done or am I misunderstanding something?

[@superplatinum]

i give blizzard 1 year before they have to add yet another wheel to this 3 wheel car they call soul conduit gonna be fun to se them be pissy about the negative feedback they will get they can only lose it all going whit this system over working on class talent's and making sure all class spec's work as they should do but i dont take them for morons they likely know this already but have someone telling them not to do it :-/

[@Fleato]

I'm a 12/12m raider. 3400 io...... I'm still rocking a 430 shield I m+ because the shield from ilg hasn't dropped and I have gotten no better shield from my 100s of m+ runs and chest. I also haven't gotten my lock jaw shoulders in 8 months of rolling.

[@Boxedwaffle]

the currency better be at least 80% the value of an item. i really don't want another residuum situation where i have to scrap a slew of items to finally get some random piece that i end up scrapping because it's bad. also, the vendor needs to allow us to pick a specific item, no more rng pleeeeeeeease

[@danntheman865]

Could it not just have points attached to it so. Normal raid and mythic+ 1-10 1point per boss/run Heroic and m+10-15 is 2 points and Mythic and m+15 is 3 points attributed.

[@rosco3]

That would suck. This system wants to encourage you to dip in every system without punishing you too heavily for specializing.

[@matthewsaustin88]

Great point, I really miss just getting tier gear and the other bis pieces.

[@Unstocable]

"Universally better for everybody" - not really. I currently cap on Conquest and do a +15 every week, this system means 1 less item per week for me. Granted, it's a choice rather than 2 random items, I'm actually hyped for the new system, just thought I'd clarify it's not "universally better".

[@licketysplit2575]

Defo fairer. I like doing and only have time for mythic+ and raiding. I get one box , you enjoy mythic+ and arena. You get two boxes. We both do two types of time consuming content.

[@HigakiRinne]

I imagine this might be mitigated somewhat by PVP vendors

[@thetruekakokun865]

Well in shadowlands there will be no titanforging, no rng sockets, no chance at a corruption. So the trade-off is that you get less gear, but the gear you get will be as good as it can be outside of getting a low ilvl if you only did low level content.

[@positivepatrolleader4914]

Waaaaait a minuit... aren't the conduits reset when you change specs? So that I can have 3 Fire, 3 Frost, and 3 Arcane? .-. The chest reward structure seems solid though. 10/10

[@Nagassh]

That's the way I thought it worked at first when they made the Blue post and I thought I could probably stomach that. Then Ion clarified that no, the conduits are hard locked in between all specs unless you use your once a week respec. The only thing that swapping specs does is it will remember your favorite SB / path for that spec. Doesn't really work when many SBs have a throughput conduit that is shared between all paths, so if you put an arcane conduit into it that SB is dead for frost / fire. Oh, and fuck druids. It needs to change to be spec specific or not have a timer.

[@Giliver]

@@Nagassh spec specific seems like a fair compromise if the system absolutely has to stay in blizzards eyes.

[@The_Yukki]

Nope, that would be optimizing and we can't have that

[@Assywalker]

@@Nagassh thanks for clarification. big bummer

[@Forbizz]

As someone else said, the % is just part of the variable. My guess is this string is for the “run 3 mythics” quest. Which will look at the top 3 dungeons. Which is fair

[@Alithia451]

Make Covenants and Soulbunds purely lore and cosmetic and go back to classic gearing. I just want my bis list!

[@MrMrTravman]

Yeah. I agree. Grind dungeons to get pre raid bis, and then raid for your bis items. I miss this progression path. It also made playing alts actually feasible.

[@Netsuko]

I think Conduits are literally the vanilla talent system revived with a little bit of extra choice influenced by the essence system. +1/2/3/4/5% extra damage or crit chance? Sounds familiar? Yeah.

[@Kai_soze]

yeah its all about "memeingful choice," meanwhile we're getting locked into covenants + their abilities as well as soulbinds on a weekly lockout. ?????? blizz is so out of touch with their playerbase and SL could definitely be a big time flop.

[@abdelkarimouzzine5671]

i'd rather just have one choice than just constantly swapping which is a pain in the ass

[@TheGrey08]

If each spec has its own soul-blind loadouts, like the blue post made it sound, then I can live with a week lockout on completely resetting soul-binds. It would be better if it was only a few days though.

[@ifeanychukwu2412]

The week long lockout on conduits has me feeling really down about SL as a druid player that enjoys all of the druid specs. I really, REALLY hope they change this.

[@caffeinefuelled9186]

As someone who often plays a healer I dont like it either but who knows maybe they will do something like make it spec specific.. maybe.. crosses fingers x.x

[@12stigga]

People want to know what ilvl they are getting in the weekly chest., say you do one +10 and and then a mixed range of keys after that., how would you know what ilvl your getting in the weekly chest?...

[@martinwild1929]

why cant we have the freedom to play our class our way. does it matter if someone min maxs and someone else picks whats fun to them?

[@Assywalker]

You can. All you have to do is join a guild and be a good person. Then they'll let you do reasonable experiments, maybe even some crazy ones :)

[@martinwild1929]

@@Assywalker i agree that is away to avoid the 'elitist/ perception' you have to min max to do a +3 key and be kicked for it but the problem i have is the barriers and restrictions blizzard are putting in place. I have to wait a whole week to change things ups to figure out what i find fun/ what i don't/ what can be useful to me. yet alone have the fun of figuring out synergies with legendries for example. Lets hope i don't miss click either cos that could suck for a whole week. Does it really matter if someone takes the 'best' for each fight if stupid restrictions put in place to stop this means we don't have the freedom to play explore and enjoy our characters? These restriction will not stop the perception of a meta, it will just make the meta harder to achieve so why give us bad feeling systems to stop something they cannot. the reality is unless you are in a friendly non progress guild you will not have to deal with the 'meta'. Not many will be this fortunate so why make it so hard for players to just enjoy the game.

[@Assywalker]

@@martinwild1929 totally agree. the "friction" Ion is talking about causes the "degenerate" gameplay they try to prevent. The game never needed more than: 1) baseline version of the spec 2) talents 3) gear And if they insist on putting more systems in, they better be as flexible as gear/talents. Restricting players so that other players judge them less harshly for their decisions just wont work. If they care, they just choose another random goon. And if they dont care, you just lost freedom for no reason.

[@martinwild1929]

@@Assywalker couldn't agree more, i get so worked up at how blind they are about it so sorry if i came off aggressive etc didn't mean it just so frustrated. It causes issues with what could be a great expansion from the theme and lore i have seen so far.

[@Assywalker]

@@martinwild1929 No offence taken, mate. So we suffer together, I guess. Luckily I'm in the "doesnt-affect-my-much" camp, though I wont argue from that postion, since that's of little help to anyone. Actually my only reason to care about this stuff, is that I see so much more potential in the systems of the game. Build my own gear progression spreadsheet, desgined a better integrated crafting system and multiple redesigns of specs just for the fun of it :)

[@TheamazingHotdots]

The numbers currently displayed are also a bit concerning when you think about the possible investment you may need to keep 2-3 characters up to to a relatively equal power level with all the systems and weekly rewards vault. However, the amount of options for rewards will be significantly better than BFA.

[@Stiflex]

How does one provide feedback on the systems of shadowlands? I keep hearing Ian saying "we're taking in feedback", where? How do I, a non beta/alpha participant, express my opinion on the issues I see with shadowlands? Just bitch on the forums/mmochampion/twitter and hope someone from the devs reads it?

[@daniellucas5522]

Pretty much - only people who can actually play the beta get to give feedback on it directly, for really quite obvious reasons. They're taking in feedback primarily from people who've played the systems, not from fans of content creators who seem to be fairly heavily pushing an agenda.

[@blurpleshark]

@@daniellucas5522 and what agenda is that

[@minimcune]

@@daniellucas5522 and thank god not everyone CAN provide their feedback because some of it, most of it in fact, is downright brain-dead. Id actually really love to hear blizzard give some feedback on how they feel about the community. Now THAT id listen to. With popcorn.

[@TacBlades]

It would be crazy for someone to give feedback only based on the information through the lenses of other people.

[@minimcune]

@@TacBlades doesn't stop the members of this particular KZbin channel...youtubers speak for and think for them, apparently. Whenever I enter into an argument with anyone all they do is parrot what preach says it's quite the sight to behold!

[@heatherwhipple8514]

So those of us who dual spec are kind of screwed am I understanding that correctly? I play WW monk but often go MW when we are short on heals or if we need another healer for M+ runs. I also main MW in PvP but am WW for raids. Am I going to need 2 different monks?

[@hdmoviesource]

This new mythic+ cache looks terrible. So when you're limited to mythic +5's in the first week, I'll farm 15 dungeons or so to get my BIS +5 gear. After that, I'll weekly no-leave my +10. However, because I did 15 or more +5's I'll only get +5 equivalent loot from chest. This has to be the worst designed system I've ever seen, and the ability to play with friends has been removed. Also, if I wanted to do my +10 for the week, (only 1) and then help my friends farm four mythic +5 dungeons, I'll get all my rewards pushed down to a +5. This design is the worst thing I've ever seen, and if I can't play with friends I will not play this game.

[@daniellucas5522]

That is completely wrong. Each item has its level determined separately. The first item is based on the lowest of your top 1 dungeons, the second is based on the lowest of your top 5 dungeons, and the third on the lowest of your top 15. If you did one +10, 4 +8s, and 10 +5s , you'd have a choice between a +10 item, a +8 item, and a +5 item on that row of the vault. Playing additional content with your friends can NEVER reduce the ilevel of a reward in your vault. It can unlock another option of a lower ilevel, but it can never reduce something you already unlocked.

[@hdmoviesource]

@@daniellucas5522 That sound s awedul though. If I did 15 fives with friends, I'd only get +5 loot at the end of the week? So that means I 'd need to run 15 15's to counterbalance it? Am I missing something or is this absolutely awful?

[@daniellucas5522]

@@hdmoviesource No, you'd have to run 1 15 to get one option for 15 loot. Every single one of these slots is an OPTION you pick from. You pick one and only one item out of all of the slots you unlocked. You get one option from doing 1 dungeon, a second option from doing 5, and a third from doing 15. If you did 15 5s and 1 15, you'd choose from 1 +15 item and 2 +5 items. Probably going to be an obvious choice. If you want 3 +15 options you'd have to run 15 +15s. Doesn't matter how many other runs you do with friends, the requirements for your loot are identical. If you do 5 +15s, you have 2 options unlocked. Running dungeons with your friends will never downgrade those items. Ever. The only thing running dungeons with your friends might do is unlock the final slot at a lower ilevel - but that's only an option, you do not have to pick it, and if you want to upgrade it later you can finish off those 15 +15s. This is strictly an upgrade to the live system. The absolute worst case is that you only have one viable option and it's the same as the random item you were getting from your chest for doing one dungeon.

[@Markus-zb5zd]

I think you missed something here....the soul binds are force specific they said... And from what I've read you can swap your soulbinds and the lines inside the soulbinds. The only thing you can only change once per week seems to be the slotted conduits

[@Paul-zh2jp]

i'm 100% with you that they're creating their own problems by adding more systems, especially if we're not allowed to optimize. literally delete soulbinds and conduits. take the best buffs from that system, that change gameplay in interesting ways, and make them talents. instead of focusing their time on things that will actually stay with us, like better class gameplay (which is mostly shit compared to what it could be) and new spec abilities, they focus on new borrowed power systems that we don't need, are impossible to implement well, and that will be gone next expansion anyway. revert to mop, wod, or legion pls

[@johnathanbowers5433]

Wrath or bust. MoP was homogenized and WoD was pruned so bad it homogenized every dps spec into a rotation of about 4 buttons and the utility and flavor be damned. Never bring WoD back.

[@thanyou]

They don't like the idea of players being able to min-max because if its easily available, then they're pressured heavily into doing so by others just so they can perform well. It takes away from what they might find fun or interesting and instead are pushed into something dull but performs well. I understand their mindset here, but the reality is that they introduce these mechanics with these problems, and at the end of the day, many players do just want to perform. Many do like to play multiple specs in their class. Making it arbitrarily harder to customize the way your character performs just to prevent the social pressures of min-maxing for the average player is just in the interests of nobody. Hopefully Blizzard finds a way to remedy this, or it'll be the one sore spot for this whole expansion. All the other content looks stellar so far, but them sticking to their guns on conduits/soulbinds/covenants will drag this expansion back to bfa levels of player discontent.

[@TyCzarify]

I completely understand people being frustrated by these systems. However, you see a lot of "they don't think about what it's like for other players" sentiment and honestly that goes both ways. If someone likes the way the system is panning out, does it make it better than you think it should change for you? We all know they'll end up giving everyone the ability to change all conduits/soulbinds/covenant abilities eventually just to appease the loudest folks.

[@CosmicCleric]

1) You are making allot of assumptions that may or may not be true. 2) Blizzard is a company. We are customers. They sell products. Judge them on what they sell and how they sell it. Don't worry about hurting their feelings. Just be fair on any criticisms.

[@TyCzarify]

@@CosmicCleric I was referring to players that may like the way the system is, not Blizzard. Sorry if that was unclear.

[@bestmonk6606]

@@TyCzarify not gonna lie I havent heard one person say they are liking how blizzards systems work out lol

[@Nightstalker314]

17:25 No: Blizzard really dislikes the idea of optimizing down to every trashpull. You either don't get that or you don't want to accept it hence using lousy strawmen.

[@HeyItsJudas]

you keep saying legion

[@Nullsparta2]

He is saying "Like it is now and like it was in legion"

[@luone5832]

that does not makes sense, i play prot warrior for dungeons and arms for arenas, so its like i have to do 1 week full arena, and 1 week full dungeons, hello? who have allowed that to even be designed

[@cirian6485]

I have to be blunt here Preach, your arguments about Blizzards design decisions to include multiple choices without the ability to easily change them is like a child having a tantrum because its not perfectly their way. I will preface by saying that I do wish that they unlinked the player power aspects of covenants from the lore and cosmetic aspects, so you could pick any of the abilities from any of the covenants, because that is making players make a choice between power or theme which is where I think the problem here is. But just merely having systems that are complex and relatively immutable does not intrinsically make them bad systems, nor are they WORSE than nothing at all. You DO have the choice to pursue the optimum choice - its just that that choice will not be the best choice in every situation. As a competitive player one will have to decide which aspect of the game or role is most important to them and make that choice. Its not like this system is going to obfuscate everything and give you random abilities with no ability to predict what you are getting - players are STILL going to pick the best choice for themselves - its just not going to be an absolute universal best choice in every situation. You have been very clear on the fact that you really enjoy adjusting your loadouts at every opportunity, optimize for trash, optimize for this boss, optimize for that boss, etc. And you seem to think that this feeling is universal amongst everyone who wants to perform as well as they can on their characters. This is just frankly not true. You may truly enjoy the tedium of minutia like that, but many people do it explicitly BECAUSE its the optimum way to play. That is to say, since I play with the goal of optimum performance I WILL turn all the nobs Blizzard gives me for absolutely minute optimizations, but that doesnt mean turning those nobs is any less tedious. As a metaphor, it would be ridiculous to assume that everyone who shows up at a gym does so because they LOVE working out and its their past time of choice. Many, probably MOST, people who go to the gym do so for health or fitness goals. Similarly, just because a player DOES make those optimization adjustments fight to fight, boss to boss, doesnt mean they are doing it because they enjoy it, but rather its very likely they are doing it because its the proper means to their ends of peak performance. WoW is a game that is many things to try and cater to many different players, I wouldnt suggest that Blizzard makes every single player power decision relatively unchangeable so that you have no choice but to figure out what is best once and then can rarely ever change it again despite the fact that maybe that would be my preference because I don't think WoW would be better of exclusively catering to me. But there are already a LOT of these sorts of changeable optimizations and Blizzard inserting systems that are less changeable does not intrinsically make them worse than having no system at all.

[@cirian6485]

To be clear however, I do think that there are issues with covenants and soulbinds, I just think that there are many solutions that fall between and are far superior to "scrap the system entirely, or open it up 100%". For example, the 1 week cooldown on swapping soulbinds? I think that is unnecessary, even just 1 day cooldown would mitigate a lot of those concerns, while still making it so its not a nob for players to turn between every fight. Or spec specific soulbinds. Or unbinding soulbinds from covenants so that there is a much larger selection of them available and thus more likely to be more balanced within a short variance of each other.

[@stonehenge313]

I admit I am quite concerned about the soulbind process. I play all three specs and need to be able to swap at a moments notice to fill specific roles - in BOTH raids and mythic + To me that could potentially be 6 separate soul binds depending on whats available or have to run sub-optimally

[@IceRoss]

I’ll tank your key mate, next week

[@lindkvist9588]

So if I wanna do like every other xpack ever and heal in raids but dps in dungeons this means what exactly ? (Eli5)

[@truefalcon6884]

you can probably manage it if you have 1 soulbind for healing and 1 for DPS, and then just hold your 3rd for if you need it?

[@war7iger]

So let me think logically for a moment... 9 sims every reset 😂

[@Omugaru]

Nah, since we won't have corruptions (no clue if WF/TF makes a return) it will be a lot easier. Especially if the raid chests only drop raid loot, the M+ chests only drop dungeon loot. You can just straight up sim for upgrades from those places and when you open your chests you check if 1 of those pieces is among them. You can have the entire sim done with a raid sim and a dungeon sim. Which also means you are done simming for the raiding for the week since you know which bosses drop what upgrades for you.

[@kloaf1131]

you could use top gear with 9 sets. once.

[@war7iger]

@@kloaf1131 true

[@lukeluckynblue1873]

but what if blizzard have 150 items in the pool and they let me choose just 6 of them it is still RNG have on weapons i don't like system where my class needs 2h weapon with the highest ilvl to do dmg but there are 3 in all m+ dungeons meanwhile 25 bracers 35 legs etc etc

[@ManDoggy]

Bit concerned that PvP is combined with PvE. As I get 2 pieces a week now. That's the only downside I can think of.

[@timokampwerth1996]

Well they said they want to reduce the amount of gear being handed out so that seems to be in line with that

[@kitrace7341]

considering the huge secondary stat swings some specs can have in pvp alone depending on 2v2 or 3v3 I am not looking forward to trying to put together sets past rival if that's gonna be the only option for gearing past the equivalent of 460 like it is now.

[@SkagulTV]

I've heard there is a pvp vendor, but I don't know how it works.

[@nikitojic9129]

Well my issue here is that when m+ is first released in the very first week you are obviusly trying to farm gear in lower m+ rather then push until you get going so if I do like 10 +7 keys for instance and then like 3 or 4 +10 do I get baboozled from my vault and get lower ilvl gear then I deserver realisticly and yeah you have to get your key going since you have to push it from a +2 aswell seems a bit odd to me

[@iulianhodorog9979]

Mike, Mike, Mike... How can you not get it why they won't let you swap sh1t all the time? You jabbed Ion H about this too in the interview. It's because that disrupts the idea of building and customizing a roleplaying character! Think the opposite way, what if you can swap race, gender, class on a whim? On the same character, mid raid. You're an undead rogue, press a button, boom you're a human paladin healer. Why not? Because it invalidates any meaning of a choice. And yes, changing specs on the spot is a bad idea from this point of view. Changing talents likewise. And i think changing covenants is a bad idea too. You ask what's the point for Blizzard to put there options if you can't swap them... I ask you what's the point of choosing anything if you CAN swap? For some people, me included, customizing and personalizing a character is way more important than efficiency in raids, pvp or dungeons. That's why, for example, i'm gonna choose covenants how I imagine my characters would choose, totally disregarding the spells i get. Same thing for soulbinds. Options aren't there to have them all, that's why you CHOOSE stuff. My 2 cents, cheers 😊

[@Danishdrums]

Precisely.

[@Ty-oe4dr]

(please correct me if im wrong because i dont quite fully grasp this sytem yet) this seems like it will fuck over druids the most. there are 3 soulbind "loadouts" you can have, so for almost every class in the game you could dedicate one loadout for each spec, i.e having one with frost conduits, one with fire conduits and one with arcane conduits. druids have 4 specs so you are NOT able to do that with them.

[@gametenor]

HAHAHAHA 7+ HOURS OF M+ a week 🤣

[@KoKo-sv7ru]

Well that’s the same time I spend now but I will get better rewards so ism happy :)

[@SunniestAutumn]

That"s how much it takes for some groups to clear through Tol Dagor +8.

[@gametenor]

@@SunniestAutumn 🤦‍♂️

[@SunniestAutumn]

@@gametenor Hey, you may think we're casual, but the full group stuck to it for 7+ hours. When did you last devote yourself to M+ for that kind of time? Yeah, I thought so.

[@Ztormrageheero]

Currency is nice. But why isn't it that way in the first place? For the longest time in bfa an ilvl 315 ring was outperforming an ilvl340 ring. Give players an actual choice instead of an illusion. You get a token for an ilvl based on what you did that week. You trade it in for what you want. Everyones a winner.

[@TheGuykilla]

Ztormrageheero then you’re finished gearing in a month, you go “well I’m done” and quit the game

[@DrunknBraindead]

Every new Shadowlands News gets me less excited for retail. I can't wait to farm the same shit over and over again multiple times because they won't just give me 3 things to choose from for my one weekly M+ that I begrudgingly have to do even tho I hate M+. But now to get the promised choice I have to do them even more. Fuck that. And their system over system over legendary bullshit is them trying to develop shit to keep me playing because almost everybody in the industry forgot that good games keep you playing automaticaly. No we can't do that we need the systems over systems because r&d says that's what gets you player retention. The 1 week cd for conduits is just Blizzard at it's finest again. We don't want you to do something like you want even tho we intruduced it and fucked it up ourselfs and the solution the community wants is bad because you think you do but you don't. Scrap the system overload, bring back tier sets and make legendaries legendary again or scrap them too (aka big questline and fuck of with legendaries for everyone).

[@DrunknBraindead]

1. At this time we don´t know what sets the itemlevel of those items so I´m assuming the content you did in that categorie sets the ilevel of the choice you unluck aka if you do high M+ but only raid heroic the choices you get will be inferior. 2. Why do I have to do more to get what was promised and not just get a choice regardless of what I did? All I want is my M+ chest to give me a choice of 3 Items regardless of how much content or other content I did. This "choice" they want to implement is just another system to keep you playing or play more because they just can´t give us 3 choices without anything attached to it. 3. And I have a feeling those Raiding and PvP choices will replace the PvP chest and raiding weekly. Because Blizzard just doesn´t give you things without taking 10 more from you.

[@DrunknBraindead]

In a perfect world I could choose beforehand what I want to farm for and go for that item and not have to choose between 3 items out of 100 possible. But since I have to live with a lootbox every week I want to choose out of 3 items every time I loot it without having to farm 10 or more M+, raidbosses or bgs. Why even have the weekly box give higher loot than you can get by doing the M+ itself? I love classic for the fact that when I want a specific Item I know exactly where to get it and get it at it´s most powerfull EVERYTIME IT DROPS. All this system does ist give a choice but locking it behind more shit I have to do on top of all the other shit I have to do. "Oh you want to choose between 3 items? Go ahead and farm M+ or raids or bgs." One M+ a week should be enough for me to have a choice between 3 items or get the next system currency. And my feelings and assumptions are based on 16 years of bs Blizzard has thrown at us. It´s not like they fuck shit up on the regular.

[@DrunknBraindead]

You are not reading what I am typing. I DON´T WANT TO DO EXTRA STUFF TO GET THE PROMISED CHOICE. I want to do 1 M+ a week tops and get the choice out of 3 items. If you can get more choices by doing way more stuff that´s fine. But I want the choice out of 3 to be BASELINE.

[@JustPeterSteel]

This is an issue for rerolling because when you reroll and your guildies help you do some M+ for gear, they're sacrificing the item level of the gear they'll be getting in next week's chest. Previously they could help you as much as they wanted without being penalized, because it didn't matter how many low level M+ they did as long as they had 1 above 15 for the week.

[@daniellucas5522]

"We know blizzard hates people speccing their character optimally" This is a pretty big strawman Preach. Not really impressed by this, it feels like you're actively ignoring the arguments they're putting forwards about this. I don't know if this is intentional to try and force the community perception against Blizzard on this, or just wilful ignorance because you don't agree with their position, but this is a highly dishonest argument. Blizzard do not hate people speccing their characters optimally. They are drawing a distinction between permanent and semi-permanent choices, and loadout choices. Wow has always had and will always have a major semi-permanent choice in the class system. It's not fundamentally wrong to add to that side of character customisation, and it doesn't suggest that they 'hate people speccing optimally'. Please stop feeding us this bullshit - it leaves me unsure if you're just being wilfully ignorant or actively manipulative, and neither is a good look.

[@benp9793]

No, it is not a strawman. There is no purpose to locking what people can use, nor any benefit. List a benefit. "Friction is good because it's good" is not a reason.

[@daniellucas5522]

@@benp9793 With zero friction, everyone is quickly expected to pick the best choices for every situation. The fact that you can't easily change class means that objectively bad classes for m+ (e.g. priest) still get to play m+. By comparison, sub rogues can't. They don't get accepted to groups, because they could easily switch to outlaw or assassination. The only reason you're allowed to pick a class that you enjoy playing and still play meaningful content is because you can't trivially switch classes. And yes, it's a complete strawman. They've given a ton of reasons why they want this to be a semi-permanent choice, and dismissing all those reasons and saying 'they just hate people playing optimally' is a textbook strawman.

[@daniellucas5522]

@rick melethron rick For plenty of reasons all of which have been given already. Just because you don't like the reasons doesn't mean they weren't the reasons, and it doesn't mean you or preach get to invent your own bullshit reasons why they did things.

[@shikatsu]

However, a nice thing of the cache is that you can do lowbie keys to help folks, not the best reward but at least giving a hand up is some good attempt to encourage working together at least.