Trash Disney Remakes

[@BigJoel]

Go to my patreon if you want! www.patreon.com/bigjoel.

[@jmarch_503]

Bruh I missed ya

[@Liliputian07]

so have you officially come out of the closet

[@MarbleCellar]

how many patrons until you get a mic stand

[@TheScarletSlayer]

13:19 wait they made last and the tramp? When?

[@loregoblin3854]

I actually really love that Mulan chose to go home at the end of the original movie... because like. idk, I think Mulan is a wonderful example of goals over roles. and I think it only makes sense to talk about this in terms of how Mulan relates to her character foil, Shang. basically, Mulan is a woman raised under feminine standards, and she finds her situation challenging. she faces the matchmaker and is declared unfit as a woman. but she is trying her best to fit in, as a way to do right by her family, because she loves them. she mostly seems frustrated by her inability to naturally do what they would prefer, right up until her father is called upon to serve in the army. Mulan will put up with a lot of things, but not the threat of losing her father, who she loves. so, in the face of an unbearable alternative, she takes his place. given this, it makes total sense that she would go through the entire rest of the movie, looking for a way to secure her family's safety, but also return home, and make them happy. her focus always stays squarely on what she loves, how she's going to protect it, and what she needs to accomplish to that end. and this creates the trend, throughout the movie, of Mulan looking past the pageantry of how things are supposed to be done, and doing what makes sense in order to accomplish the end result that she's really after. you see it in the scene where she climbs the pole with the weights, and when she causes the avalanche in the mountains. what's interesting is that both Mulan's father and Shang's father are military men, and both feel compelled to serve as soldiers by masculine expectations. Shang is raised in these same expectations, and he carries a lot of anxiety over whether or not he can measure up to them. he is constantly watched by the emperor's attendant, who questions whether he is competent as a man. and this pressure to perform actually blinds Shang to the situation that will eventually bring him grief later on. he tries so hard to please his father by training his soldiers well, but then they come upon that village and find his father dead. this is exactly where masculine expectations were always leading his father, and Shang followed along, trusting that this is how it's supposed to be, until he lost him. and it nearly gets Shang too. he nearly dies in the mountains, in battle... but he is saved by Mulan. once again, she has a goal in mind: the safety and protection of the people she cares about. and when she's found to be a woman, and she explains why she's there, it makes perfect sense that Shang won't kill her. Mulan's father is alive, and Shang can't say the same for himself. Shang is alive, and he wouldn't be if she hadn't been there. all of his soldiers are alive, and that was her doing as well. Mulan has gotten everything she wanted because she was thinking about her goals first and foremost, and was willing to break away from her given role in order to accomplish the things she's achieved. how can Shang critique that? she's done everything he couldn't. I also think it's interesting how Mulan and Shang reverse the gender roles of traditional spousal arrangements at the end of the movie. not only does Mulan get to come home from war with honors, the way a successful male soldier would, but her family gives her total affirmation that she is loved independent of any of this. she is the same imperfect daughter they always loved, and no amount of accolades were ever needed to prove that she was worthy of that love. and for as much as her love compelled her to keep her family safe from harm... they only ever wanted that for her as well. it's reciprocal. and then, Shang shows up. and traditionally speaking, when a man and a woman were married, the bride would typically become part of the groom's family, and go to live with him. but at this point, we've heard no mention of Shang having any surviving family... it's possible that he may not have a home that he feels particularly pulled to return to. and when Mulan asks if he'd like to stay for dinner, her grandmother asks if he'd like to stay forever. it's Shang who presents himself to Mulan and her family for appraisal, rather than Mulan who must subject herself to judgement as a bride. and the remake is barely worth mentioning when it comes to any of this, because Shang isn't even there.

[@QueenSoledad]

I feel like Mulan becoming a general or whatever is actually a sadder ending weirdly. Mulan’s reason for leaving home was to save her father, and in the original she goes back home to be with that family she left to save. In the remake she presumably spends the rest of her father’s life away from her family serving the government that threatened to tear them apart in the first place. It’s a girl boss distopia for sure.

[@ashikjaman1940]

But now she gets to tell a bunch of guys -(but not girls since they're not magic like her)- to go die in the desert! That's totally feminism!

[@st0rmyTrash]

I thought the same! Her going back home and hopefully being bale to live a free life there would have been a much better ending. Maybe using her new found confidence to take over leading the family to help her dad some more or something. But becoming a general seems so out of chracter

[@PauLtus_B]

Original was: Mulan saves the world and the emperor bows down to her, her father fully accepts her and is in a sense proud of her disobedience. Remake is: Mulan has special magic powers and saves the world and that's what it takes to be allowed to be among the boys.

[@PersephoneDarling28]

Rather be a Girlboss than a Dad Girl

[@Rusty_Spy]

The whole thing is a twisted subversion of the originals thesis. Mulan in the original actively rejects and goes against the societal norms and power structure and by doing so saves the day, in the remake Mulan saves the day by better CONFORMING to said societal norms and power structure. She's more hung up about not being able to live up to the military's code of honor than she is about actually surviving the war or stopping the enemy.

[@bebo2629]

22:15 I like how they pretend that Geppetto selling his clocks is a great tragedy when Geppetoo's job is litteraly selling clocks.

[@shazzy544]

You dont understand, he had to sell his private collection of giant clocks featuring beloved disney properties, they meant the world to him.

[@Tzumaoable]

Can you believe it? The baker had to sell all his bread just to make ends meet

[@DriverHenryWho3245]

LMAO

[@jennayisartsay]

Joel took more artistic risks in this video than Disney did in all these movies combined

[@reid.7680]

This isn't necessarily a scathing critique of the video, I liked it. I like the strange visual gags, and I liked the nice cohesion in the jaded delivery and the attitude towards Disney remakes. But the video wasn't risky or challenging, Joel's expressed this before but in greater detail. This one is just rehashed in list format. It's not necessarily an artistic risk, it's safe content and easier for Joel to write than tackle other subject matter. Which all-in-all adds to the entire meta of the video, and I like that a lot, I'm just being pedantic

[@jennayisartsay]

@@reid.7680 Still more than Disney

[@aazhie]

@@reid.7680 still more interesting, creative, and new than the Disney remakes, though... XD

[@epeeypen]

this is the comment i thought at 9mins and 45 seconds into this video.. lmao.

[@jeromealday614]

​@@reid.7680 umm climbing out the closet is not an artistic risk? 🤔

[@averynelson1186]

What's funny about the Lion King remake is that real life animals are actually more expressive than in the film

[@loturzelrestaurant]

B-Joel-Fans, want Recommendations? For no particular reason, i wanna recommend Stuff. Its just Fun for me. It genuinly is.

[@explodingdynamite7319]

Prehistoric Planet Did These Animals Better!

[@fabtrash]

And night sky are really colorful too ! They could've had starry skies, and a red sky during "Be Prepared"

[@theaveragecomment1014]

@@loturzelrestaurant Sure

[@starchaser777]

@@fabtrash and if they're so concerned with looking real, my guy they're in the middle of a savannah, not much trees or clouds to close the view of the sky, it would've made so much sense.

[@Moeller750]

the greatest moment in Disney history is the reprise of "Be a man" from the original Mulan, when the other soldiers dress up as women to get to the emperor. Those 60 seconds makes the entire movie come full circle. It completes the theme of gender as a performance, and at the same time, it shows Mulan's friends accepting her as a woman and a soldier. it's perfection, and that's a rock I'll die on

[@crosseyedcat1183]

This scene alone made the original Mulan far more progressive than any movie that Disney has made in a long while. The point of this scene was to show how feminism isn't just about allowing women to do masculine things, but also about showing how masculinity itself is overvalued and isn't a dominant mode of expression. It's not like "Masculinity good. Everyone should be masculine!" (I'm looking at you Mulan 2020)... Can you even imagine Disney in 2022 having a positive portrayal of crossdressing that doesn't emasculate the men involved?

[@Moeller750]

@@crosseyedcat1183 of all the classic Disney movies, Mulan is by far, the one that has aged the best

[@gwencere9383]

@@crosseyedcat1183 With Disney's growing queerphobia I'm not very surprised tbh

[@crosseyedcat1183]

@@gwencere9383 I think in general Disney has a problem where the people there in the recent years are increasingly conservative and are struggling to adapt the historically progressive takes they used to have. They just don't understand themselves.

[@marocat4749]

And it shows that they are manly enough to not be over crossdressing to do what they have to. And have healthy masculinity.

[@m.f.3347]

I would rather Disney just straight up re-released their old movies in theaters instead of these shitty remakes. I think it would actually be kinda sweet if kids had the chance to watch the original movies in theaters like their parents did

[@mimi-fm7hz]

That’s actually such a good idea

[@kendomyers]

I miss the days of re-releases. Now that I live in LA Ive gotten to see some re-releases, but outside of a city like this its just not a thing anymore.

[@jits8767]

they used to do that with the disney vault (you could only buy the dvds for a limited time and then that allowed disney to draw crowds to rereleases of their films in cinema) but then disneyplus totally changed that strategy. but i feel like you know this

[@EidoEndy]

They used to do that all the time. Haven’t done it in a long while though.

[@Cruizinelli12]

That, and they should focus on new stories that haven’t been told yet.

[@EmissaryofWind]

One thing to add about Mulan and the songs in the original: they actually give the story more gravity than it would have without them. The very joyous "A girl worth fighting for" is abruptly ended when they stumble upon the ruined village, and after that point the movie stops being a musical. It creates a much greater contrast in tone and really makes the scene more intense than it would be if it was preceded by another serious and grim scene.

[@silverblue73]

Right the songs aren’t just music breaks, they’re doing a lot of narrative lifting

[@msjkramey]

You made me just *hear* and *feel* that moment just by bringing it up. That's the power of good story telling

[@SoicAngellis]

PLUS it essentially being a 'marching song'

[@melissaf4712]

Wow I never realized that. I always thought that scene was brilliant and as a child it was haunting.

[@ameerhamid89]

Thanks for the goosebumps

[@masterplusmargarita]

Saying the phrase "Stop gaslighting your cat, you dark triad freak" to Gepetto Disneypinocchio is one of the most delightful things one could possibly do.

[@Graphomite]

Agreed. That line made me laugh out loud at my screen.

[@topphatt1312]

Personally I think the line about him being a soulless, conscienceless freak to be as funny if not funnier

[@dilanrajapaksha]

He hated the Pinocchio remake so much more than I was expecting like goddamn

[@coatimundi69]

his name is Gepetto Liveactiondisneypinocchio actually.

[@garth4712]

This line has lived rent free in my mind for months

[@mordecai5225]

I did not realize Disney remade so many movies so every time he said "let's talk about..." it got funnier to me

[@chuckbatman5]

Seeing a video that goes into each one in depth just made me realize how fucking many of these there are like Disney STOP

[@rickardkaufman3988]

The first few remakes weren't bad. And then it got worse.

[@Chillaxes]

Disney is planning to remake every one of their animated films. They've already been budgeted for for I think the next 3 years or so

[@allanromeo360]

yo it’s mordecai the bird from reguler show

[@Doctor_Straing_Strange]

Bro I thought we were done after Maleficient and then I realized we were at the HALFWAY POINT

[@dillononeill9379]

About the ending of Mulan-I never thought it was strange that she did not continue her military career only because I never saw her as a character that wanted to join the military in the first place. She joined out of necessity to protect her family, but it was not her ultimate goal for her future.

[@Gloomdrake]

Most people in real life also only join out of necessity, so it's not that hard to believe

[@caremiccats]

i completely agree, not only do i think its in line with her character & important for the resolution but also like...i relate on a personal level bc if i just saved my entire nation i would want nothing more than to go home and hug my parents😭

[@justalostlocal]

I actually thought it would be weird if she joined on the spot. The remake made her a girl boss born with superhuman martial talent. As a normal person like the og Mulan, if you were drafted and facing possible injury/death for months on end, you would want to go home to safety for a while.

[@jaynestrange]

I think the changes made in the Mulan remake kinda show that whoever made it didn't really *get* the original movie. Sure, it's a movie about feminism, but equally importantly it's about family, parental expectations, and queerness. Mulan doesn't go to war because she wants to fight, but because she wants to protect her father & sees proving herself as a son as a way to make up for her failure to fill the role expected of a daughter. And she doesn't go home because she wants traditional woman's life, she goes home because she loves her family, and she's able to go back to her family happily now that she doesn't feel torn between the different aspects of herself.

[@PanAndScanBuddy]

And further, she accomplished all her goals, so like many a male hero, she goes home and such. It's gonna be a weird fit for a while but the desire to return to a place of comfort is very human.

[@CrashBoomson]

" I'm not saying I don't like Pinocchio as Christ, but I am saying I don't understand it" may have been the funniest thing I've seen all week

[@silverish9081]

"Stop gaslighting your cat, you dark triad freak" takes the cake for me

[@dingus2k]

that one freaking killed me

[@adrien9918]

Wouldn’t it rule if live action Jiminy cricket was just a real half inch cricket? Like Pinocchio would be doin bad shit and then id just cut to footage of a real cricket.

[@vlad5042]

that would definitely fit the surreal vibes of live action pinocchio

[@jakethedragonymaster1235]

They do it for The Little Mermaid when they shouldn't have...and they didn't for Pinocchio when they should have. Odd. Does remind me of that being a joke in one of the Halloween Shrek specials tho

[@MizterMissile]

Hahahah I like that

[@metaknight3116]

Then Pinocchio just steps on him

[@splendidpheasant9192]

You would love the Shrek Halloween special

[@TheJasonmanguy]

Another big problem with the Mulan remake is that she was born with magical chi powers that make her badass without even trying. In the 1998 version we see from the get-go Mulan is smart and crafty. She feeds the chickens in interesting ways and uses cheats to get through the tea ceremony. She uses this craftiness throughout the movie to get the advantage on enemies and challenges in her path. She thinks outside the box and inspires others to do so as well. The new Mulan is just magical girl strong and has plot armor for days so she gets away with whatever bullshit they contrive for her. It’s honestly pathetic and makes her character arc trivial.

[@erniefofernie]

Yesss I was looking for this comment! It completely erased the feminist message of the movie. She’s not clever or strong, she can just do magic.

[@jspaingreene6350]

Yes....they might as well have said she has midi-chlorians in her body. She's got the Force. Why not? They own both properties...LoL

[@madsgrams2069]

I mean...there's an entire subgenre of Chinese movies where everyone basically has magical powers from...doing kung-fu really well, apparently. But that is obivously not what Mulan should be about. They tried to turn it into Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon...and it DOES NOT WORK.

[@ripvanwinkle6449]

Dude no doubt. Like the scene that comes to mind is when she uses the last fire-work launcher and hits the mountain, and mushu is like "He was 2 feet in front of you, and YOU MISSED" while the avalanche sweeps over the ENTIRE MONGOL ARMY. She wasn't aiming for the big bad, she was thinking ahead. She was a very crafty, albeit weaker (like the water bucket scene where the boss dude, forgot his name, had to carry her weight) but consistently pulls through because of her intellect, rather than her super powers. Look at how they massacred my girl...

[@Tirgo69]

I don't necessarily have a problem with concepts like chi/ki being included in a work, it's all over battle shounen anime and they generally make it work well enough, I just don't think it was really necessary to introduce these elements into the remake.

[@Genevievealicex]

I'd like to add that the music in mulan actually highlights the horror of war. Its only a musical for the first half. The last song being a girl worth fighting for, which is honestly just a fun song where we get the guys making jokes and having a good time but the song is suddenly cut short by them coming across the ransacked village. And there are no more songs in the film.

[@ItsmeInternetStranger]

I like that Girl Worth Fighting For is a counterpoint to Honor to Us All. In Honor to Us All, a bunch of women sing "Men want girls with good taste. Calm, obedient, who work fast paced. With good breeding and a tiny waist." Reversely, girl worth fighting for has actual men singing about what they want in a woman, and it's things like "I couldn't care less what she wears or what she looks like" and "my girl will think I have no faults. That I'm a major find." It's an often overlooked point about the society in the film, that not only does Mulan not fit into it, but that the society is itself fundamentally flawed. It trains women to live up to a standard for men that the men themselves don't actually like or care about. The men, while not perfect, mostly just want someone who likes them and will cook for them, that's kind of it. So while yes, Girl Worth Fighting For is a fun song about guys having a good time before being crushed by the horrors of war, I think it also has thematic weight and importance and serves as a counterpoint to the first song, much in the way I feel Make a Man Out of You is the counterpoint to Reflection.

[@camipco]

That moment is artistically maybe the best thing Disney has ever done. It's just plain brilliant.

[@NotoriousLightning]

I don't think you're the real king of Sweden.

[@ramonadalsalan5759]

In my opinion the meaning of the phrase Girl Worth Fighting For instantly changed as soon as they saw the carnage of the war, Like at first they were singing about wanting a partner a girl to fight for, but when they saw the devastating sight left from the war, I like to think that the girl that's worth fighting for is the girl who used to own the doll that Mulan placed next to the sword. Just a little detail I like to believe.

[@justineberlein5916]

Only mostly true, actually. There's also a brief reprise of Be A Man toward the end while they're breaking into the castle dressed as courtesans

[@diegosanchez894]

There is a quote by Georgia O'Keeffe "Nothing is less real than realism", and it definitely reinforced by the live action disney remakes. They should also have applied the "if I had more time I would've made a shorter book" philosophy.

[@Gloomdrake]

You really feel it with the Lion King remake. The "live action" CG animals are so devoid of emotionality

[@Cruizinelli12]

Absolutely. I don’t know who at the studio thought those of us who grew up with the Lion King wanted or needed to see this story through a hyper realistic filter. The original was damn near perfect, with the perfect villain- Scar.

[@yuu34567]

@@Gloomdrake they could've stayed within realism and given them more emotion too. Like I saw it in theatres and was really confused by how they almost never made the lion's ears move. Simba barely reacts to Mufasa's death and I'm pretty sure they could've done a better job than that even within their stupid constraints

[@eagleleft]

@@Gloomdrake plus why do some things have to be realistic about the lions but not other things? And when do we know simba is afraid or angry or sad or happy?

[@eagleleft]

"Realism" sucks ass

[@jaimayy]

Seeing Del Toro’s masterful interpretation of Pinocchio and all the work put into it, then seeing Disney’s remake really makes you appreciate del toro even more.

[@sanguillotine]

Del Toro saw Disney’s remake and was like “Pinocchio as a Christ figure? I like it!” And then instead of walking on water he had Pinocchio crucified.

[@traviscunningham7062]

VeggieTales also did a better job on making a parody of Pinocchio then the live action Disney remake.

[@thedeepfriar745]

The original Pink Elephants on parade sequence was an incredible technical showcase of the talent of the Disney animators. It absolutely kicks ass.

[@nueroptera]

Really weird to watch as a kid, though.

[@lapislazarus8899]

@@nueroptera I never thought so. But I was raised by different generations who didn't feel they had to hide the world from me. My dad was nearly 57 when I was born; he was a WWII vet.

[@nueroptera]

@@lapislazarus8899 he perhaps should have tried to hide the psychedelics a bit better

[@sidhackney8831]

@@lapislazarus8899 Interesting take on why psychedelic bipedal elephants would be a strange sight for a small child

[@scootie_scoot]

it’s super cool to see how small the team for that section is too. On Wikipedia it tells who laid it out and animated it, it’s about 6 people!!

[@acastanza]

"They are fundamentally terrified of making interesting artistic choices. These movies can't be pretty or clever or weird..." Proceeds to cram as much weird artistry as possible into a 50 minute video. Iconic.

[@blarg2429]

It's like he's compensating for all the movie footage, or perhaps for his own experience of watching the remakes.

[@arandomguy4478]

I mean, 50 minutes of 10 hours isn't that good

[@harrylane4]

@@arandomguy4478 they’re talking about all the weird camera choices and scenery nonsense in the shots of Joel himself around his house, not any of the shots from the films themselves.

[@Methus3lah]

“Maybe you should stop gaslighting your cat you dark triad freak” you absolutely destroyed him

[@somewhereinoregon541]

Need to embroider this on a pillow!

[@kourtenayt1927]

😂

[@glitchedoom]

They should put that on the Blu-ray box.

[@drawingbreathes3436]

Mourning father gets wrecked by Big Joel

[@ali3nfr3ak83]

I just love that the critique of the Lady and The Tramp remake is just "They made him a loner. he's no longer a big filthy SLUT"

[@MizterMissile]

Hella hahahaha

[@Crackpot_Astronaut]

Are you guys all joking? Am I missing the joke? I feel either stupid or 1000 years old, because "tramp" didn't mean "slut" in the movie.. it means, like, a vagrant.

[@ZeranZeran]

@@Crackpot_Astronaut Tramp was sleeping around but they didn't show it. This is implied by the scene where he gets ecstatic after getting his STD results back. I'm sorry I have no idea what im talking about

[@gregjayonnaise8314]

@@Crackpot_Astronauta tramp is slang term for someone who sleeps around a lot. Slut is a bit of a harsher way of putting it, but it’s not a far off thing to say. At least in the states it’s a common, if old fashioned, term.

[@donqueshot2217]

​@@Crackpot_Astronaut he "breaks a new heart every day" is kinda suggestive

[@fourcatsandagarden]

I didn't even realize there was a Lady and the Tramp one cos I don't remember seeing it get any attention at all. Which is probably the greatest praise these movies can get. It wasn't bad enough to get attention.

[@liviwaslost]

I haven’t heard of it either lol

[@LikaLaruku]

Same. This is the first time I've seen clips of it or heard anyone talk about it. Talk about flying under the radar.

[@lapislazarus8899]

I think I saw another review of it; the part with the "pound" is totally changed. It's not like I was emotionally scarred by the original. I think I hated the bad taste "oriental"-stereotype Siamese cats scene upset me more.

[@jacob.c3326]

It was Disney+ exclusive so they only advertised it for like a week

[@AHHHHHHHHHHHHl]

I read about in 2018, but by the next year, thought they just canceled the production

[@doughnuthead8757]

These remakes market themselves as darker than their 'cutesy' animated counterparts, but at the same time they're softer and more tame.

[@Thomasmemoryscentral]

@@makeitthrough_ anytime someone thinks that about animation, ask them.if say The Simpsons and Futurama then have to be passed up because they're animation too?

[@Nocturnalux]

@@Thomasmemoryscentral I say, Neon Genesis Evangelion.

[@kaitlyn__L]

@@Nocturnalux it’s Bojack Horseman for me now, which I was surprised by compared to when only the first season existed

[@Omnywrench]

The only way they're "darker" is that they're all so poorly lit. Every other shot looks like it was filmed in my grandma's attic.

[@ts4gv]

Darker is poor word choice but I get the point. Lol

[@ingeniousclown]

I genuinely love how unhinged the cinematography is for this video. More bravery in each shot than in the entirety of the live action Disney remake catalogue.

[@andyghkfilm2287]

Simba looking up at the sky and seeing just clouds is such a perfect metaphor for the creatively bankrupt and miserable experience that is the Lion King remake

[@thegreen2504]

I think ending of the cartoon Mulan and the ballad make plenty of sense. Her primary driving force is her love for her family, she wants more degrees of freedom in filling a traditional role not to drop it all together. At no point in the cartoon does she express masculine ambition to attain some high role, she wants freedom to be the most authentic version of herself

[@jessicatatum7769]

EXACTLY the whole point is that you should be able to choose your own life without being forced into hyperfemininity or hypermasculinity. I always felt like her choice made a ton of sense and kept her from falling into the "strong female character" stereotype where they're basically the exact same as Male characters.

[@ExhaustedWombat]

Yes! She is returning to her village with the new found knowledge and confidence from her experiences that steel her with the understanding that she can take on life on her terms and succeed.

[@camipco]

The biggest problem with the Mulan remake is that she wants to fight and she's good at it. Both in the epic poem and the original movie, the reason Mulan as a character is admirable is she does something she doesn't want to do, something she expects will be hard and unpleasant and dangerous, because it is the right thing to do. She is doing her duty - acting ethically in the face of that being hard for her. In the remake, she's just achieving her personal goals in the face of some unreasonable barriers.

[@adversary22]

The Chosen One rework serves the interests of entrenched money. Old Mulan gave the message that anyone can work hard and become powerful and successful. New Mulan sends the message that one can succeed if they're *born with powers*. I think this negatively affects how young girls view themselves. They were not born with powers, and therefore they cannot hope to challenge those who want to keep them powerless.

[@PersephoneDarling28]

She's a Girlboss in this new one and it's better for it

[@grylltheonion]

@@PersephoneDarling28 A girlboss? Maybe, but only because of the magical powers. I would say the original is far superior in telling a more relatable story, and Mulan's wit and smarts makes for a better message.

[@Thomasmemoryscentral]

Not to mention the original 1998 version contained an entire training montage of Mulan and her 3 soon to be fighting partners failing with the other men as they began training. They all sucked and each of the 3 partners got their own verses in the song that are short and showed them specifically messing up at certain tasks. Remember that the song is sung by a now grown up Donny Osmond of all people! During the key change of the song, Mulan figures out a trick to get the arrow at the top of the tall pole and then everyone starts to get better with the montage of everyone impressing Shen. The song and visuals compliment each other building on another until it ends on that satisfying shot of them all kicking in the air holding their staffs. There is a start, buildup and payoff. What do they replace te songs with in their remake?

[@MsLilly200]

@@Thomasmemoryscentral The only comparing scene I remember is the one where originally Mulan couldn't carry 2 buckets of water up the mountain/stairs during training, so Shang gave her a condescending look and took hers so he easily carried 4. In the remake, Mulan is pretending to struggle, until she decided that, actually she's just gonna stop doing that. And easily girlbosses her way to success using her magic chi martial arts super strength she had since childhood.

[@malcolm32]

I think the confusion about Mulan's choice to return home rather than accept the Emperor's offer in the original story and movie stems from a misunderstanding of Mulan's motivations. Mulan doesn't join the army to fight the patriarchy or because she has military ambitions. She has to navigate these complications to achieve her goal, but that goal is to spare her father from returning to service in a war that will almost certainly kill him given his age and old injuries. She takes her father's place because she can and because she has to, not because she wants to. Once she accomplishes that task she has no reservations about returning home. The film's feminist message has more to do with how her actions change the expectations of the people around her. She has proven to her society that women are capable of being warriors, and when she returns home there is no pressure on her from her family to pursue a marriage or slip back seamlessly into established gender roles. Her agency is acknowledged and respected. There's nothing wrong with rewriting the film so that Mulan DOES genuinely want to be a warrior, but to suggest that the original film sacrifices its strong feminist message by showing that Mulan doesn't want a military life just misses the point of the story.

[@JumpTossCatch]

I literally paused the movie to rant about that when he said it and lo and behold, I scroll to see that you've summed up my sentiments quite nicely! Well said! 👏🏽

[@benlewis4241]

Well said!

[@superclarendon8648]

I haven’t seen the ‘98 Mulan in years so I’d have to view it again to confirm for myself what you’ve said; but just based on what I *can* remember I’d say this is a pretty good analysis of the story and character.

[@GwyndolinOwO]

I think part of why they might have changed it is because in a lot of chinese adaptations of the mulan story she doesn't really have a goal to "be a woman at war" but she feels a reason to keep fighting for her country. I do like the original Disney adaptation though. Its not the best at keeping things totally authentic to a Chinese story, so its not 100% perfect if that something that matters to you, but it tells a good story. So if you wanna ignore all of the Chinese stories of Mulan and treat it like its own thing then yeah- having Mulan stay is a bit of an odd choice. I just wouldn't say the change came out of left field if we want to assume that Disney looked into the other Mulan stories that already exist and wanted to add in elements from those stories. If they wanted it to work they could have given more reason in the new movie that helped sell why she really wants to stay other than she's good at what she does, or revenge. But yeah overall i agree, even if other adaptations of Mulan have her stay, in the 1998 animated movie it made sense for her to go home. The movie is already different enough from chinese culture that having someone be able to leave like that doesn't break everything, and she didn't NEED to stay.

[@spicy_seagull]

YEAH, the whole point is she cares about her family the intro to the movie keeps hammering that in that she really cares about her family and wants to make them happy and feels like she’s not living up to their expectations even if they just love her unconditionally. She returns home because her goal was for her dad to get to see her and his family again. New Mulan has a different story and some may prefer it but it shouldn’t steal the name of old Mulan

[@sethdahoodedbandit]

I would argue that the original "He's a Tramp" song, about him being a manwhore, is pretty integral to part of the movie and comes back up, since the movie is essentially an allegory for an upper-class young woman being taken in by a lower-class somewhat older man, and knocking her up! She kicks him to the curb after hearing from the pound dogs that he has this reputation that he never told her, loving and leaving. Even her friends are essentially acting as bodyguards against a "bad man" who shouldn't have been involved with a "high-bred woman" in the first place, only accepting him when he proves he doesn't have crooked motives. Not a Lady and the Tramp stan or anything, but I feel like this point isn't really focused on when anyone talks about it lol.

[@Sam_on_YouTube]

The problem I heard most about Mulan, which I also agreed with, was that it made her magical. It was a chosen one narrative. The original was explicitly and intentionally NOT a chosen one narrative. She got the buckets to the top of the pole with her brains, not with magic. It was one criticism in Xiran Jay Zhao's career launching video on it... among many others.

[@jaynestrange]

It kinda feels like making her into a magical chosen one is *less* feminist? Like saying that a strong woman must be magic cause there's no way she could do it on her own.

[@delusion5867]

@@jaynestrange Live action Mulan says "women can only stand up to and compete with men when given artificial advantages" Animated Mulan says "women are capable of standing up to and competing with (and can even surpass) men by using their natural wit and skills" I don't think I have to say which is the more feminist and empowering movie

[@wildfire9280]

@@delusion5867 some people think the latter is also bad for some reason

[@crosseyedcat1183]

@@jaynestrange Consequently making her love interest not General Shang make her less... strong. Think about it. Mulan was such a strong woman in the original that General Shang had to be the one to come to *her* instead of the other way around as is typically done with a matchmaker (in the beginning). This is a fact that startles both her parents in a shocked silence at the end of the movie that is profoundly hilarious and sobering. There wasn't anything problematic with General Shang and Mulan's relationship because they didn't have one until after Mulan was no longer in the military and she was a decorated war hero that the emperor himself (and her commanding officer) both bowed down to. If anything Mulan was the one in a position of power at the end.

[@crosseyedcat1183]

@@delusion5867 Not only that but in the live action Mulan, Mulan, despite her magical powers, still ended up fighting for the emperor, who they *also gave even more magical powers*. So what... a woman has magical powers so we should respect her, but don't forget that the emperor, a man, has *even more magical powers*.... because..... why? In the original the emperor was a wise ruler who didn't need to be strong, because he could use his brain. Mulan was shown in the movie to be like the emperor and even surpassed him when she defended his life. The original movie was about how the central core of society was formed from wisdom and how wisdom can come from anywhere. True wisdom is about how people see beyond simple appearances. The new movie is about how a woman is allowed to be a soldier because she's an exception to the rule and she does it to uphold "family values". What's the message here? You can be a girlboss only if you were born like that and only if you do it for conservative reasons? That's a pretty shitty message if you ask me.

[@congreve_cap]

“Did you not have the budget for wood?” TOOK ME OUT I CANNOT 💀💀💀

[@junkyvale]

Yeah like wtf they had to model, texture, rig, animate, simulate, light, render, foley, and composite all that for that?

[@Skallva]

Considering that Disney would have to go to practical effect designers, who have been under union for ages by now, that's probably not too far from truth.

[@kristenyarbrough4287]

Well they had the budget for wood in the Mulan movie lol

[@malum9478]

@@Skallva same reason for no practical she-hulk, and really the reason for excess cgi in general: digital effects artists ain't unionized and thus are easily and routinely exploited.

[@Gromper7878]

@@malum9478I know it’s stupid to say, “just unionize” but it actually really needs to happen bc digital artists and animators are so ridiculously overworked. Hopefully this would help people working on video games too

[@spiralfairy]

I cannot stop laughing at the phrase "Pinocchio's nasty sins" whenever I think about it please save me

[@starfall179]

I guess his nose won't be the only thing that gets longer... I need help

[@matthewv9169]

Stop gaslighting your cat you dark triad freak is going to be stuck in my head forever now

[@joyceshiver6622]

I think the original pink elephants was just an excuse for the animators to go off and have a great time in the drawing room! And you can really tell

[@RiverRoestdeKunstenaar]

This is every scene where a character trips in some way ever.

[@chuckbatman5]

The conclusion being "I hate all movies now but I love plugging my streaming service" is the most perfectly dystopian way to end a video on Disney live-action remakes

[@mussarela2d]

Something that really bothers me is how they changed Mulan in the remake. In the original, she's a normal woman who is struggling to find her place in the world. She's isn't the strongest in the beginning, or even in the end. But she has a lot of will power and gets physically stronger during the training. She's is also very smart, and the movie wants us to know that. She solves a lot of problems because of her intelligence, and it is how she wins at the end. I think this is a very interesting message: women can also performance "masculine" tasks that envolve strength, but that isn't the most important thing. Being smart and creative also means a lot. In the remake, however, Mulan is very special from birth. She doesn't learn or makes a lot of effort to get stronger. She's the strongest simply because. I don't think that is feminism, it's the opposite: women can occupy the same spaces as men, ONLY IF they're somehow special or different.

[@kkurova9345]

It's not about feminism, it's about appealing to a Chinese audience and the expectations of that culture

[@wrestlinganime4life288]

​@@kkurova9345 well they failed the Chinese hated the movie

[@MiloKuroshiro]

@@kkurova9345 that's why all the screenwriters and the director aren't Chinese or even remotely related to China.

[@vlad5042]

@@kkurova9345literally what singular aspect of mulan's character in the remake appeals to chinese cultural expectations? her magic qi powers that women arent allowed to use?

[@Polygraphice]

Americans believe that if you (anyone) work hard you can achieve big things and change the world. Chinese culture does not really follow that same idea -- it's something more like, only exceptional people are worthy of exceptions to the rules of society, thus Mulan has to be shown exceptional from the start. @@vlad5042

[@dunsparce4prez560]

In 5 years i want a remake of this video, but with an actor doing a rather wooden impression of Joel.

[@luccaladinig2783]

I nominate Chris Pine, just to bring things full circle

[@alanbareiro6806]

Also decrease the saturation to a minimum so there are no bright colors and all looks drab

[@amberhernandez]

@@alanbareiro6806 FUR GLOW

[@MrDohers]

With lots of needless exposition explaining why he is in a different room for each part.

[@kata1261]

The only thing I could think of upon reading this was Abby over at Philosophy Tube doing the maximum effort version of that exact thing, and remembering it made me happy, thank you :)

[@goose1120]

the "when you wish upon a star" pinocchio cry was the most joyless passionless emotionless thing ive ever seen

[@NosebleeddeGroselha]

It even breaks some unwritten rules about musicals, doesn’t it? I’m not an expert. But I’ve never seen a song in a musical being delivered in full ugly crying, it feels terrible to watch. Take Coco for example, when Miguel sings with Mama Coco, he’s on the verge of tears and his voice falters a bit in a few parts, but he’s still singing. I’ve seen broadway musicals where the character is full crying before and after the song, but they still sing normally, just in a saddened tone. This happens in Moana when she meets her grandma’s spirit and in Frozen at the end of Do You Wanna Build a Snowman, and they were literally grieving in those scenes yet sang normally. The closest I can think is in Tangled, Rapunzel has Eugene dying in her arms and tries singing to heal him, but she’s so broken she chokes and doesn’t even keep trying, it’s much more emotional

[@sirvalhart7464]

@@NosebleeddeGroselha I hope you don't watch the Les Mis movie then, cus MANNN...

[@WrexsolToob]

"It hates fun and is bad" seems to be Disney's ethos nowadays.

[@jaywhangmakes]

Disney is Neil Druckmann of media company.

[@justineberlein5916]

I still like Lindsay Ellis' take from her Beauty and the Beast review, that they seem to be trying to make their videos CinemaSins-proof, as if Jeremy's a good-faith reviewer

[@crypticcomms]

i'm not going to be able to sleep now without imagining you climbing out of my closet to aggressively talk to me about disney movies

[@GuyNamedSean]

I think that might help me sleep.

[@crypticcomms]

@@GuyNamedSean absolutely fair

[@Magmagan]

What a dream that would be 🥰

[@thewizard1]

@don't be surprised your end is coming

[@TayTayMakesBeats]

I love Large Joel's style of delivery, he seems sweet, polite and docile but also highly neurotic and on the verge of snapping. I feel like he's talking to a very confused person tied to a chair behind the camera.

[@Mystemo]

I hate that the entire discourse about the Little Mermaid remake has become "the movie will be awful because Ariel is black now" or "the movie will be amazing because Ariel is black now". The movie IS probably going to be awful but Ariel's skin color will have nothing to do with it.

[@robofistsrevenge3288]

Yes, but when it fails, Disney will _insist_ it was because of racism and/or sexism. It's a very easy "get out of criticism free" card they've been using for years, why stop now?

[@ElPayasoMalo]

I don't understand why anyone gives a fuck about the skin color of a type of creature that doesn't even exist. Not even sparkling vampires garnered this kind of hate.

[@belughlegosi]

Yes nothing makes me feel better as a black woman than hearing everyone berate the black mermaid for being black

[@morbidsearch]

They're like "but it's a Danish fairytale" when the original had flamingos and palm trees

[@mikemorro140]

Yeah that's my take as well like with almost every live action Disney film the internet would've spent a month crapping on it but now there'll be a massive discorse based more on having a black Little Mermaid

[@SolidSpadesIsANerd]

Another interpretation of the "I forgive you" scene in cinderella. Is that in a way it was a fuck you to her step mother. "You have no control now, you do not even have my hate" Which to someone controlling like that, is crushing.

[@chaseowen2998]

"There's just something cosmically horrifying about that, that I honestly have trouble articulating. Lion King 2019 almost feels like it shows us a world without art - a world where we are all dead and the AI are left generating purposeless content for no one and nothing." This ^ genuinely sent a cold shiver down my spine. Disney is just churning out dystopic drivel at this point.

[@WeatherInOrlando]

There Will Come Soft Rains by Ray Bradbury

[@ThEjOkErIsWiLd00]

Yeah, it's not often that a line from a KZbin video makes me gasp out "Holy shit!" and pause it to fully contemplate what was stated, but that was one of them.

[@angelsartandgaming]

That was powerful to me because as someone who adores zoology and can recognize a lot of animal body language and facial expression (yes, animals can have facial expressions) and who loves doing nature photography, it felt so lifeless. I have taken more lively and pretty pictures and videos on my 3 year old cracked android phone than the entire movie!! And this whole quote summarizes my feelings.

[@liviwaslost]

And gets mad at creators when they try to break the status quo.

[@wolfetteplays8894]

Absolutely! Never thought about it that way before

[@magnusengeseth5060]

I can't convey how much I love the Big Sassy Joel character we got to meet during the Cinema Sins parody section. "Was your dead son a freak just like you, old man?"

[@DMO-DMO-DMO]

Yes yes yes yes yessssss

[@invadernav3422]

I never took the ending to the original Mulan as her just embracing those traditional roles again, I just saw it as she made the decision to join the army to protect her father and her people, out of love, determination and confidence that grew. She's got nothing left to prove to anyone - she saved them, she made her family proud. Now she just wants to see them again. It's why she shows her father the trophies of her actions, and he tosses them aside just to embrace her. She never wanted to be general. She did what she set out to do, and just wanted to come home to her family.

[@joannamarieart]

Also, it's not like she didn't want to be a wife/mother, she just couldn't conform to society's strict rules about how to achieve that, and she wanted to have a say in it, not just be matched with some random stranger.

[@luiysia]

that's why it doesn't work with the movie. the movie adds the feminist element to the original story but still kept the ending which is obviously about filial piety and traditional confucian values which are at odds with the idea that mulan doesn't fit her family's expectations

[@HexyGoblin]

The theming of the original work feels more like a commentary about breaking tradition for the sake of those you love than a feminist tale. You can derive feminism from that theme but it's not as cut and dry as Mulan being a girlboss.

[@Ingestedbanjo]

I think it makes Mulan more powerful that her final choice was to keep doing what she wanted. She spent the whole movie up to that point rejecting the role that her society has placed upon her. The emperor - the ultimate patriarchal figure of her society - recognises that she has broken free of her role as a woman... but then immediately turns to his advisor and says, "see to it that this woman is made a member of my council", assigning her a new role. He doesn't even address her directly, and refers to her as "this woman". To concede to his wishes would be to go straight back to surrendering to conformity. By rejecting even the emperor's expectations, Mulan fully asserts her independence and free will far more strongly than if she'd submitted to his will and agreed to serve him as a council member.

[@Nuvizzle]

Yeah seriously it's not like Mulan's backstory was how cool she thought militarism was and how much she wanted to wage war. Why would she wanna be a general after experiencing the horrors of war first hand lol

[@PrincessNine]

I was generally under the impression Mulan acted out of love for her family, not out of defying gender. So her going home was her like "I really didn't do this for a lofty reason" she got what she wanted and is happy.

[@vlad5042]

well she explicitly states at one point that an additional part of her motivation was wanting to prove to herself and her family that she could be someone worthwhile. and then the ending is her going home and finding out that her father always thought of her as worthwhile, so its a perfectly satisfying ending moreso than her becoming a general and not even seeing her father again as far as i remember.

[@alexandercandicedad1355]

Thanks for writing this out so i don't have to!

[@kamuyking551]

every time I remember the Mulan remake, I always get so heated, because they also remove Li Shang as Mulan's character foil. at the beginning of the movie, we see everybody pressuring Mulan into being an ideal woman... a perfect bride, a perfect daughter. and there's even a character that's explicitly meant to judge her and find her lacking... the matchmaker. in terms of gender roles, Li Shang being assigned his first leadership role in the army is a similar test of his proficiency as a man. and he even has a character that's explicitly meant to judge him, and find him lacking... the emperor's advisor. but one of the things we can see about Mulan from the very beginning, is that she's a results-driven problem solver. as she's wandering the town, she solves a guy's chess game, gets a boy to stop bullying a girl by getting her doll back for her, and writes notes on her arm so she'll do well with the matchmaker. she's trying to take something non-functional, and make it work. and so, when her father is called away to serve in the army... she doesn't see the situation in terms of honor, duty, and social obligation. she has a problem. her father isn't going to survive if he serves as a soldier again. and even though she has failed at the honor, duty, and social obligation part of being a woman... she doesn't need that right now. she needs a solution. Mulan is willing to do anything to save her father... including things he wouldn't approve of. and that's when we introduce her to the army, and to the character of Li Shang. the important part about Li Shang, is that he still thinks that he can succeed at the demands of manhood. demands that are all the steeper for him specifically, because his father is a high ranking officer in the military, and Li Shang is supposed to honor his father's legacy, and prove to any doubters that he isn't just here because of nepotism. Li Shang feels a lot of pressure to do a good job here, and that's why he's originally such a hard ass. and at first, Mulan seriously struggles, and doubts her ability to conform to masculine standards either. honestly, she has every reason to sympathize with Li Shang's struggle here. she recognizes the difficulty of trying to conform to one's expected gender roles... and it's actually a very heartfelt moment when she tries to tell him that, regardless of what anyone else says, she sees his effort and thinks he's doing a good job. it's what she would've wanted to hear when that was her struggle. in a way, it still kind of is. already, we're being shown that both the standards for women _and_ the standards for men are very difficult for any person to truly achieve. things may be unfairly weighted, but neither side of the fence has greener grass. not as long as people are being forced into the roles they play, without being allowed any other option. but the real kicker, is what happens to Li Shang's father. when they come upon the burned out husk of a village, we learn that Li Shang's father died there. and when you think about it... here is a man who did all of the masculine things right. here is a man who joined the army, had an illustrious, enviable career, was a role model for his son, and then did what soldiers often do, and now he's gone. to the grief of many, but to the surprise of no one. it's eerie, knowing that Li Shang wants, so badly, to follow in his father's footsteps. and in the very next battle, he would've... if it weren't for Mulan. the fact that Mulan saves his life is not surprising either, nor is it an accident. she's our out-of-the-box thinker. she solves problems. we've been seeing it throughout the movie. the test with the weights and the pole. when she tries to stick tomatoes on the ends of her arrows. even just noticing that Li Shang is worried about his performance as their captain. and of course, her decision to join the army in the first place, so she could save her father from the exact same fate that Li Shang's father just met. and now she's saved Li Shang too. when Mulan is revealed to be a woman, this is why Li Shang can't kill her. Mulan has accomplished something important here, and Li Shang is very sympathetic to it. just by being there at all, Mulan calls into question what Li Shang has been doing this entire time. his father couldn't be intercepted on the path to his death, and Li Shang himself needed Mulan to intercept his own demise. honor, duty, and social obligation could've literally killed him. and yes, at the end of the movie, Mulan's main problem is solved. she has taken away the situation that would've threatened her father's life, and now she gets to go back home and see him. her reward at the end of the story is going to enjoy the benefits of everything she ever protected... which includes Li Shang. I love that he shows up at the end, because yeah, him being alive at all was another of her accomplishments. and it also handily puts to rest any lingering concerns about how Mulan will land a husband. it's purely incidental, but Mulan does better than just finding someone to marry... this is also a man who, past this point, won't leave her to go off and die in a war. if they learned anything from this movie, it's how to solve that sort of problem.

[@jace_d]

Dude... Your meta is so insanely good, I really enjoyed reading it

[@mammoneymelon]

​@@kamuyking551 i love youtube comment essays

[@mallninja9805]

Dude, did I miss it? I don't think you mentioned that Pinocchio 1940s lesson is that _lying is bad_ but the remake literally shows us that Pinocchio lies to get himself out of a tight spot _and it works_ - in my mind that it's worst sin.

[@thevioletbee5879]

I mean to some extent that’s valid. Like… yes, if it will get you out of a kidnapping, please lie. Probably the least of that film’s problems.

[@felixdaniels37]

@@thevioletbee5879 The point was that lying got him IN that situation in the first place, and it was only getting worse the more he tried to cover it up. He lied to Jimminy so he can join the puppet show, and he tried lying to the Blue Fairy out of fear. Only by finally trusting his guardians that cared for him and being transparent with them was he able to be freed.

[@SammEater]

Not only they completely broke the moral of the story by having Pinocch escape with his lies they stole that scene from Shrek. Lol

[@Im.A1ex]

I’m alright with the original Mulan ending with her returning to her family tbh. There’s something to be said about how she doesn’t fit the feminine role that’s expected of her at the start of the movie, but when she’s tossed into a situation where she has to pretend to be a man, she doesn’t fit that masculine mold exactly either. And at the end of the movie she’s done away with both gender typical roles she was forced into, and was just herself. Way more impactful tbh than her just going on to be a general. Also, she never showed any interest in fighting or war before learning her father would be leaving. She did it to protect him first, not for her own vanity. Wars over now and she doesn’t need to protect him anymore.

[@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343]

I think the most ironic part of Mulan that misses the point of Mulan's gender and the struggles she goes through but also the respect she earns is the omission of the scene where she reveals herself to Shang Yu as the one who caused the avalanche. The guy doesn't even care she's a woman. He just calls her "the solider from the mountain" before chasing after her and trying to kill her. Somehow the most evil guy in the entire movie is the one person who didn't judge Mulan for being a woman or show any mercy because she was one. He saw her as the soldier that was his equal and the one that took away his victory. That one scene held more weight on the entire issue than the remake had in nearly two hours of the movie. And it is actual female empowerment when your antagonist sees your heroine as an equal rather than just her gender. That was powerful. That was actually really beautiful and what I wish women were treated as instead of just these ridiculous insufferable leads with superpowers just because like whatever the hell they turned Mulan into.

[@featherfae2875]

Literally in SHOCK from the Pinocchio scene that’s literally a shot for shot remake of the climax of tangled,,,,,,,,, utterly incredible the tear on the cheek and everything exactly the same holy shit

[@altromonte15]

Pinocchio being heartbroken for his father is kinda weird when you realize that they've spent maybe a couple of hours together. He becomes alive, he gets sent to school, and that's all the time they've known each other for.

[@dingdongism]

Not if you accept that the actual little boy’s soul became embedded in Pinocchio. That’s the “real boy” lamenting his father. Not that I’m defending the film or even the scene, but I don’t think the hot take stands if you take the premise on its merits.

[@harrylane4]

@@dingdongism but the idea that the boy’s soul is in Pinocchio ignores all of the rest of the film. Like, if there is a real boy deep down in there, he shouldn’t NEED to learn how to be a real boy. He shouldn’t NEED to justify his own existence.

[@dingdongism]

@@harrylane4 I don’t know why I’m playing devil’s advocate here but isn’t it possible that this “soul transfer” has some unexpected and weird consequences? I mean we’re already suspending disbelief for _any_ version of Pinocchio in that we’re watching a marionette come to life. Is it so beyond the premise here to accept that the boy’s soul loves his father, “knows” his father in some way, yet remains somehow unfamiliar with other features of being a corporeal being?

[@MasterOphSky]

Idk dude if I was very recently given the gift of life and the guy partly responsible for that through the power of pure love died, I'd be pretty bummed out too, especially if he was trying to be my responsible father figure and keep me safe Also in these types of movies people fall in love with each other with just mere hours together, so at least the type of love this time is platonic.

[@cassandrajoiner9933]

@@harrylane4Look at when the original film was made. Little boys are raised, not made. Pinocchio did need parenting wooden or not. The 'real boy' theme is really a moral ideal.

[@Omnywrench]

I have literally never seen an animated film that would have worked better in live-action, but I've seen plenty of live-action films that I thought would work better animated.

[@Wabajak13]

Lord of the Rings would say otherwise (I know, it's kind of cheating)

[@nickchambers3935]

Like what, out of interest?

[@naikigutierrez4279]

@@nickchambers3935 Most super hero films and Cats come to mind.

[@gota7738]

@@Wabajak13 I dunno, the Peter Jackson films might be better than the Rankin Bass films, but I still think animation at it's best could even could top the Jackson films. The ability to push evocative imagery and atmosphere further in animation could still really play well to LOTR, even if Bakshi and Rankin Bass couldn't quite get there.

[@joshuaamy3010]

@@Wabajak13 funnily enough I grew up with the Bakshi version of LOTR and to this day it's the version I think of when remembering plot points

[@superstone13]

Loosing my shit at the Pinocchio segment. Its almost worth it for these monstrosities to exist just to hear Joel call Geppetto a dark triad little freak.

[@corvidcall1025]

My personal favorite disney movie is the Hunchback of Notre Dame. Can't wait until they do a live action remake of that one. It'll be UNWATCHABLE

[@baguettegott3409]

Ooh, it will be horrible! Will they have the courage to make Quasimodo actually significantly disfigured when it's live Action and they can't give him big Anime eyes anymore? Absolutely not! Will they stage the brilliant songs in interesting ways that make for great imagery like in the original? They will not! Will they somehow find a way to be racist about the Romani people in the movie? Probably.

[@32andu]

@@baguettegott3409 I wouldn't be surprised if they heavily sanitized Frollo as a character. Hell, if the remade Lilo and Stitch they'd probably remove or downplay the whole part there Lilo and Nani are indigenous Hawaian.

[@TheWavytree]

​@@32andu you were blessed with the gift of prophecy

[@32andu]

@@TheWavytree Thanks and now I hate it. (The Prophecy part.)

[@highjumpstudios2384]

@@baguettegott3409 they're gonna credit it to the Turkish government or some shit

[@marcoj1972]

I think the original Mulan ending makes sense for what it was talking about. Mulan never wanted to go to war, she only went because if she didn’t her father would have to. All she wanted at home was to be accepted for who she really was. While she was accepted as a soldier, it wasn’t her home. With the emperors blessing she can go home and receive the acceptance she wants and deserves.

[@agreeableWitch]

This is a very heavy thing to say on a video about mostly terrible remakes, but the Cinderella one meant a lot to me when it came out. I was 14 and my father was emotionally abusive, and at that time my sisters, mom, and I were trying to come to terms with it and get out. We saw it together and I think my mom felt very similarly to me about it. The simplicity of a realistic depiction of abuse that shows the experience of being trapped and trying to make it through was really meaningful to me. I felt like the mantra of "have courage and be kind" was something really helpful at the time; have courage, because you can make it through this, and be kind, because what they do to you won't stop you from being yourself with the people who do love you. They can't stop you from being happy and nice to others, you can break the cycle. I found the movie light-hearted, uncomplicated, visually calming, and gently encouraging. It's been one of my favorite movies to return to when I'm upset since then. And I recognize that my experience might be very niche, but for me, and I hope for other victims, it is just so deeply comforting :D

[@ellencoleman4604]

Thanks for sharing this, it really helps to be reminded not to take this stuff too seriously. Even if I don't like something, knowing it had meaning and purpose for someone else makes the world a bit brighter. I hope the film continues to help you when you're feeling down.

[@emmakane6848]

Also coming from a background of abuse here, and I completely agree about the messaging adding something to the original - where most of the critiques in the comments for other movies showed how Disney actively harmed them. It’s so to become jaded in the world right now that holding onto hope makes characters exceptional, and I think that says a lot. I am sick and tired of stories where the brooding male character has a tragic backstory filled with trauma and a father who doesn’t give a shit about him, but that he keeps crawling back to only because it’s his father/that’s what society says you should do. Seeing characters that come away from abuse still actively working at being kind - not turning into the people that hurt them - means so much to me. I think it’s wonderful that kids will now be able to get that messaging in the movies they grow up with.

[@lapislazarus8899]

Did you not get to see the Drew Barrymore Ever After? It's corny and you have to sit thru Barrymore's bizarre facial expressions, but I won't kick it out for eating crackers in bed 👍🏻 Edit: of course, I can absolutely appreciate any movie being someone's security blanket. You can pop in the DVD at bedtime and set it to repeat, it'll be there at anytime you wake up.

[@danic2514]

Yes honestly I agree! That’s everything I got out of that version of Cinderella. It gave her more agency and personality which was a huge improvement unlike the others.

[@thatjillgirl]

@@lapislazarus8899 As far as I'm concerned, Ever After is THE definitive Cinderella movie.

[@Matt-zu2lu]

To be honest I didn’t see the ending of the original Mulan as her accepting social expectations but as her realizing that she wants a simple life

[@happyllama1160]

I sort of saw it as love for her family. The only reason she went out to war was because her father would have died, not because she had any passion about fighting. Though she did have societal expectations thrust upon her, her family weren’t awful, they just understood that this was how she could have a good life. She didn’t fit those hyper feminine societal expectations, but in the end she didn’t fit the hyper masculine military expectations either and saved China through her own mix of masculinity and femininity, using the skills she learnt in the army, as well as skills she learnt at home. In the end she and her family realises that she doesn’t have to fit into either box and she doesn’t try to, but finds happiness by just being herself.

[@itsaUSBline]

@@happyllama1160 isn't having love for your family a societal expectation, though?

[@babahu15]

@@itsaUSBline what?

[@happyllama1160]

@@itsaUSBline … I have no clue what point you’re trying to make, and I’m not quite sure I want to know. Having reflexes is a social expectation, but you’re not bravely defying social standards if you have to consciously blink every few seconds.

[@OhioMan1854]

@@happyllama1160 thank you for putting into words how I felt watching Mulan as a kid. I couldn't say anything you haven't already.

[@cepheid-variable]

I disagree somewhat with your interpretation of the ending of the original Mulan. She doesn't just simply go back to playing the same "woman's" role she felt trapped by in the beginning. She's been changed by her journey, and her family has been changed by her journey, and her society (even if it's in small ways) has been changed by her journey. When we see her at home again at the end of the movie, she's wearing different clothes that she feels more comfortable in, her father treats her like a person rather than like a problem, and she generally seems more confident in making the choices she wants to rather than just doing what she's "supposed" to do. If Mulan had become a general at the end of the film, it would have just been trading one set of outside expectations (the proper "woman") for another set of outside expectations (the proper "war hero") and that wouldn't truly be a fulfillment of her character arc. The fulfillment of her character arc is her ability to proudly say no to others' expectations (with that no being respected) and find her own space in life. Which for her is back home, with a vastly improved relationship with the family that she loves. That's not a regressive anti-feminist ending. It has a lot more nuance than a simplistic "girl boss" narrative would.

[@andginisin]

i always assumed everyone read the scene this way

[@jorgeloredo100]

As far as i remember the father never treated her as a problem. He was very supportive of her, and the only time he was a bit of a dick was when he was drafted and Mulan spoke out of place.

[@Jo.j.13-l9v]

Its still the kind of feminism that feels incredibly Performance with that ending. Because there is no socital change, mulans grandmother hasnt changed, and Im not sure id agree that I feel like her oarents have. And if they did its proably because she is a literal war hero. Its all individual. In that era to movie was released it was very often that in a movie there was enough room for ONE strong woman, the rest were still sluts, or stupid or weak or mothers. Mulan is about how women can do anything men can do, but not that they should be doing that regurlary. I also take issue with girlbossification. But honestly I think that girlbossifocation would work better if they had the guts the portray men as weak. Most male Action Heros only worked because they had damsels to save, and male charachters aren't objectified in the same way.

[@corvuscrux]

This really feels like he got an Airbnb and needed to justify the cost by using every single possible shooting space. It's perfect.

[@janeeyre1990]

Work in entertainment? Make that vacation/holiday tax deductible, bay-bee!

[@moniquemoen7125]

I was thinking something along the same lines.

[@ghintz2156]

Joel giving his lines sprawled out on the floor is a mood. For how flawed the later seasons of Once Upon a Time was, at least they did Cruella well. They tricked the audience by trying to give her a sad backstory (like EVERY villain on that show) to then do a heelturn and reveal that her sobstory was her just being manipulative and that she's a murdering psychopath.

[@d3l3tes00n]

I loved the take on the character, but one big point of the entire show was how "evil isn't born.. it's made," so her backstory seemed extremely sloppy to me & made zero sense. Of course, nothing made much sense anymore after the first few seasons unfortunately. I'm still pissed about how horrible this show became.

[@chuckbatman5]

Man that backstory episode is so fun BECAUSE of how flawed the show was by that point. You think you know every beat that is going to happen at the very start, just because the show has been so predictable and formulaic for so long, and then BOOM halfway through "nope she's just a psycho she's trying to off her parents" it comes so out of nowhere and is genuinely shocking and hilarious I love it so much

[@d3l3tes00n]

@@chuckbatman5 I think the biggest issue was that they had something really special with the first season & switched it up way too soon. The main conflict was between Emma/Regina & their chemistry really kept it interesting. Then suddenly separating them plus leaving Storybrooke really ruined the vibe for me. And good lord.. this was one show that really didn't know how to handle having a large cast & the retconning was awful. I wish they would've stuck with the folks we got to know originally, had them stay in the town while they had to relearn living in our world as fairytale characters. Oh god, now I'm ranting lol

[@chuckbatman5]

@@d3l3tes00n this show triggers ranting in me like nothing else I've ever watched. Bringing it up around me is just asking for a half hour ramble on all the insane and annoying things the show did in it's later seasons compared to it's earlier ones. I could seriously go on for hours talking about Once Upon A Time

[@d3l3tes00n]

@@chuckbatman5 We need to have brunch sometime & rant lol

[@QuinnsIdeas]

I dig the unhinged camera angles in this video.

[@bascoaful]

Hey man, love your channel 👌

[@EC2019]

Re: "Lady and the Tramp" - the song "He's A Tramp" is absolutely NOT out of the blue and NOT without reference in the plot afterwards. This song is the hinge point of the entire story, not just an excuse for a musical number. To break it down: Lady is a sheltered privileged girl who falls in love with a street dog and runs away with him when she is feeling neglected by her humans. She in her naivete believes this tramp is as starry-eyed as she is. The strong implication is that Tramp has deflowered 6-month-old Lady on their "Bella Notte", in which the Italian chef notably advises Tramp to "settle down with this one" with a knowing chuckle. When Lady asks what that means he just blows it off but there's a "phew" moment where he's SO glad he wasn't caught. After they have slept romantically together under the stars, poor Lady then ends up in the pound because Tramp has not taken proper care of her - he bounds away to save his own skin but doesn't take notice that Lady is more vulnerable than him and can't escape in time. In "prison", Lady comes to find that she is NOT his true love but only one of a long long string of conquests for this absolute cad, a concept or lifestyle which has never occurred to her as a thing until that moment. She is absolutely crushed and humiliated. When she next sees him, tethered to her kennel by Aunt Sarah in shame and disgrace for having run away, she berates him for his deplorable two-faced behaviour and lists off his conquests angrily to his face so that he knows the jig is up. He responds in panicked embarrassment but has no real defence. She banishes him, never wanting to see him again, but after he helps her save the baby from the rat and risks his own life in the process she realises he must care after all so she accepts him. Which is just as well because she soon gives birth to their mongrel litter. At the end, we see Tramp feeling resigned to a life of confinement complete with a collar and tag, and basically stuck in the gilded cage of his new domestic life after his shotgun wedding. Simple-minded Lady is blissful as before, back to the starry-eyed love of the early days. Meanwhile Tramp has had his wings clipped permanently almost like as a kind of comeuppance for his sleeping around and for making this well-bred little rich girl the canine equivalent of a teenage mother after he groomed her. He will never fit in with the kennel club set, even if Lady doesn't realise it, but there he will have to stay. It's kind of like a 1950s era morality tale. It's not as simple a movie as people think.

[@lizcl6857]

I've always had such a hard time getting through the original movie because I just don't really understand what is happening at times and when that happens I get distracted into whatever nonsense I find. So, your comment is really really helpful, now I kinda want to finish it and notice those little details you mentioned.

[@dragonfan8647]

Her old neighbours even offer to marry her after when she's back home to prevent her from being disgraced by having babies out of wedlock. Quite a shock for teenage me when I finally understood what that scene was about

[@dragonfan8647]

One correction, though. Lady is 18, not 6, months old during the bella notte

[@glupik1234]

Istg i didn't expect to read "Tramp has deflowered 6 month old Lady" on the internet today but here I am 💀💀💀 I've never watched the original but had a VHS with Lady and the Tramp 2 but I don't remember a thing from that one

[@luiysia]

damn then that makes the change to this scene even worse lol

[@nervousbreakdown711]

Okay, wait, why does Disney feel the need to explain Pinocchio's name as an English pun when THE NAME IS ITALIAN

[@silverish9081]

Tbh, isn't pine in Italian something with a very similar root as well? I don't know if Pinocchio is derived from that though. Either way this absolutely doesn't justify the unfunny joke explained three times.

[@midaboll]

It's anti-Italian discrimination

[@muzzycosmos9400]

@@radisk5973 as an italian,im confused but both of these translations. But still, they could be accurate and I'm just translating them bad. Pine in Italian is Pino, so it might be its origins, but I have no idea what is the actual meaning of Pinocchio is.

[@ppdoodle]

@@muzzycosmos9400 i heard Pinocchio reffers to pinecones, newly grown pine trees, there's not a really clear significance but it refers overall to pine trees?? really confusing

[@sikkableeat5614]

Even if that is his name's origin, who gives a shit? Same goes for Cinderella being named for cinders. If you want to have it as trivia in an interview or DVD extra or something, that's fine. But making a blatant explanation in the film itself, when it was never needed in the original, is annoying.

[@nadas9395]

The toying around with the shots in this is fun, pure and simple. Feels like you had fun doing it, and it came through

[@riseagain845]

Significantly more ingenuity than Disney mustered for any of these remakes.

[@larsnyman2455]

It looks like he broke into your house and he's speaking into your security cameras

[@nadas9395]

@@larsnyman2455 and trying to turn us on with that floor shot

[@atticstattic]

Joel never "toys"

[@sonyakinsey4376]

I think the original ending of Mulan can make sense, even for a modern audience, if you remember that Mulan took her father's place in the army to protect her family, nor for personal glory. It tracks that she would return home to be with and care for her parents. But yeah, the remakes are generally awful.

[@arturoaguilar6002]

The talk about an AI generating content after humanity already has perished immediately made me recall "There Will Come Soft Rains", a post-apocalyptic story about a fully automated smart house doing all his programed chores and playing automated entertainment, completely unaware that the residents had been long ago vaporized on the backyard by a nuclear strike (their last moments singed on the outside wall as silhouettes).

[@hahahahahahahahaa6580]

Went and read the story you mentioned after skimming your comment. It's definitely one of my new favorites.

[@alexv3375]

_"Today is August 5, 2026. Today is August 5, 2026. Today is..."_

[@rhubarbdude3347]

The entire Martian chronicles is a fantastic book

[@nexona08]

I remember reading “There Will Come Soft Rains” in high school. It’s really interesting.

[@Matt_the_pirate]

I love this story. It's horrifying.

[@alicedeligny9240]

Honestly Cinderella being like "I forgive you" felt like she was actually saying "f*ck you, I'm better than you" and it sound, hem, petty funny, under a layer of courtesy and niceness.

[@meltedmarshmellowpeep]

its a sign of closure and a huge 'fuck you' in that she has no power over cinderella anymore and we love to see it. she's more than the abuse she took, and she's above ever letting the step-mom emotionally control her ever again.

[@RevolutionaryLoser]

If you liked that you might like Philomena, hands down one of the best biographical films I've ever watched.

[@onetimeanswer]

@ferret Well yeah there's obvious nuance irl, but in a storybook sense, it's easy to buy into the fact that the stepmother is so personally invested in her ability to cause pain to Cinderella specifically, that she'd only interpret such a response as a direct loss of control I mean they'd both have to be pretty stupid to think forgiveness is anything close to what either of them want. How differently would that scene have read if it was the very last thing the stepmother said to Cinderella?

[@Tethloach1]

lol

[@LauraM-kr9wv]

@ferret this is stupid and implies that victims are responsible for their abuser's actions if the abuser goes on to hurt other people.

[@pavarottiaardvark3431]

Imagine having the budget of Disney and not making Pinocchio a using an advanced animatronic.

[@FumbleBee1312]

I think they’re cowards for not doing it with a real puppeteer

[@patkohler9695]

@@FumbleBee1312 You could just digitally remove the puppeteer.

[@Gloomdrake]

@@patkohler9695 it would have been funny not to, though. Just have this guy following Pinocchio around that no one ever addresses

[@misirtere9836]

Or at least god forbid an actual physical puppet

[@Gustoberg]

@@Gloomdrake holy shit, the fairy is pinocchio's pupeteer! and in the end she appears again and says "I was aways with you" no one really knowing that the blue fairy was REALLY there all along lol

[@Gh0sb0ss]

Joel is beyond merely the rule of thirds. 4:45 this man hit us with the rule of 15ths. the rule of 200ths. He got us looking at the bezel on our monitors with that framing. Simply legendary

[@IsaacMayerCreativeWorks]

Small Joel

[@kthemaster1999]

He hit us with that golden ratio

[@Darm0k]

I actually laughed when he went from that bizarre framing to him laying on the ground with his legs open like some nude model.

[@kennyeatsthedirt]

I watched the Pete’s Dragon remake while in a mental hospital and it really did not help my case 🤕

[@sardonicsardonyx359]

you may be entitled to financial compensation

[@Burger-man-real]

@@sardonicsardonyx359💀🙏

[@JKenjiLopezAlt]

You are so fantastically weird and I love it.

[@andrechris-sargent9921]

I never expected to find my favorite cook in my favorite Joel's comment section.

[@TheLiberalPanda]

j kenji lopez is a subscriber and i love it

[@XDWASDX]

You are so fantastically always popping up where I least expect to see you. Thanks for affirming my taste in KZbin content Kenji👌

[@TheLegendaryZed]

THE CROSSOVER I DIDN'T KNOW I WANTED BUT ALWAYS NEEDED

[@zainmudassir2964]

He is *big* joel

[@QueenDodogondo]

I think something that's important to note about the music in Mulan is that at a certain point it just stops, very deliberately and abruptly. "A Girl Worth Fighting For" is probably the most lighthearted and silly song in the movie, but it cuts off immediately when the characters realize the gravity of the situation they are facing. I don't think the music made the movie any less serious, or less able to handle heavy topics like war and death with any depth. In fact I think it worked in favor of the more serious tone later on. It very abruptly stops being a musical and starts being a war story.

[@ashknight6696]

genuinely one of the greatest scene transitions in cinematic history

[@Genevieve1023]

And than they find the little doll. Showing that the real girl worth fighting for, is an innocent child victimized by conflict, not the perfect fantasy wife.

[@chuckbatman5]

Yeah I always felt the decision to not have music in the third act was a deliberate and powerful choice to establish a tone shift into the seriousness of active war. Removing all the music to give the entire movie this tone is a fine choice, if the story is written around it, but applying that to the usual Disney remake formula of "follow the same plot beats so no one forgets that they are watching the NEW version of X classic Disney film" just leaves you with an empty movie that not only lacks the powerful tone shift of the original but also doesn't even have nostalgia bait to use!

[@nicholasdanner628]

“Neither of you freaks have worked a day in your lives,” said the real adult man to the two fictional animated dogs

[@noviatoria2436]

@u know me no one is looking for air fryer potato wedges you sick little demon

[@NanneEsqui13]

@edgar allan hoe I think it was more just because Joel is kinda losing it this video

[@janeeyre1990]

"Get a job, dogs!"

[@gagrin1565]

Cheered on by the virtual crowd, their approval delayed by the unnatural process of content consumption. "Judge those dogs for us," they cried. "And find them unworthy!"

[@frufrujaben]

yeah dogs don't even have drivers licenses!

[@Maschinengoth]

Pinocchios VFX looks like Toy Story. Its genuinly baffling that they somehow spent millions on this movie and the best wood material they could render was something out of Jimmy Neutron

[@skunkrat01]

Omg. Your point about them only wanting to sanitise old Disney movies is soooooo true! It is the best description of Disney remakes I've ever heard

[@JeffreyThrash]

It’s funny because a lot of Disney adaptations of public domain stories, particularly ones based on Hans Christian Anderson’s works (e.g. The Little Mermaid or the Snow Queen) are already sanitized takes of some frankly morbid “children’s” stories. For example, neither the 1940 not the 2022 versions of Disney’s Pinocchio have the puppet mercilessly kill Jiminy Cricket and various other innocent within the first few minutes of being the gift of life like in the original tale. In general, Disney has always been seen as the tame, family-friendly and politically-correct alternative to stuff like Looney Tunes and even Nickelodeon. So seeing them go out of their way to further sanitize their most-popular and least-offensive movies just because someone on the Internet MIGHT think too hard about and be offended by a children’s movie that clearly came out in an era vastly different from the present is always amusing to me.

[@skunkrat01]

@@JeffreyThrash wow, you're totally right. I'd never thought of that. I knew the old fairytales Disney drew from were often times horrifying, but hadn't then thought about the new sanitising of the stories. Hmmm lots to ponder. I just hope they don't fuck up little mermaid as badly as the others, it's my favourite

[@liviwaslost]

@@JeffreyThrash they don’t even care about the few people that do get offended. They are just trying to get money and trick idiots into paying to see them. Why try hard and make a risky decision when you can do fuck all and still be rewarded?

[@CrimesTimeLive]

The sheer unhinged power of these different camera shots blew my mind more than any Disney remake ever will.

[@kabobawsome]

In Cinderella, the scene with the step-mom overhearing is one I also loved, because it shows she isn't an infinitely cruel force of nature, she's a human. A bad person, but a person. There's jealousy, but also understanding behind her expression. She's upset by it, but she can't blame either of them for it. It's not trying to explain her being cruel, it's just a moment where we see her as a person.

[@wattthefaqameye1146]

Would also just like to point out that Pinocchio does not just mean pine head or pine boy, it actually has a literal translation from Italian and means pine eye, and they fucked it up so many times.

[@ggrarl]

I knew that already thanks to the 90s adaptation with Jonathan Taylor Thomas and Martin Landau (his Italian accent was far more convincing)

[@rhubarbdude3347]

Hi, italian guy here, I just wanted to clear up the fact that Pinocchio does not mean "pine eye", but it's an archaic word that means "pine nut"; in the original story, anyway, Geppetto calls the wooden boy like that just because he knew a family that had the surname "Pinocchio", so he thinks the name will bring good luck to the puppet.

[@tonyrigatoni766]

There was also a part in the Pinocchio remake where Honest John was trying to convince Pinocchio to join Stromboli's troupe where he told Pinocchio he could "become an influencer". It made me cringe so hard that I pulled a muscle in my neck. I love the original Pinocchio. It's genuinely one of my favorite movies, and I'm really upset that Disney fucked up this remake so badly. Not only was it the worst of the Disney remakes that I've seen. It was one of the worst movies I've ever seen, period.

[@JeffreyThrash]

Honestly, the original (Disney) Pinocchio came dangerously close to making a then-topical reference when Pinocchio says “No sir! I’d rather be smart than an actor!” Luckily for the original that makes just as much sense (if not more so) with today’s entitled Hollywood actors as it did in the 1940’s. Calling someone an “influencer” was probably already becoming cringe by the time the remake started production years ago.

[@soulfuzz368]

Agree with everything you said completely.

[@DrawciaGleam02]

No offense, but since Pinocchio was set in the 1800's, what exactly would an influencer LOOK like in that time period??? We all know how the Flintstones portrayed modern conveniences in the Stone age. If Disney had done something similar with influencers I wouldn't have minded.

[@alim.9801]

Pls tell me that's not genuinely a line in the actual movie PLEASE 😭

[@tonyrigatoni766]

@@alim.9801 it really is, though :(

[@maskingtables]

Disney is going through what Videogames went through in 2008. Studios doing their best to be "realistic" and thinking that gritty brown boring looking desaturated stuff is "realistic".

[@VitalVampyr]

Except some of the games following that trend were actually good.

[@whynot6266]

That second part, are you sure that you meant "Shadow the Hedgehog" (2005)?

[@zom-b4237]

To be fair Dead Space and GTA 4 are amazing games.

[@banukaii]

Dont do Twilight Princess and Shadow rhe Hedgehog like this...

[@SirEmrik]

@@zom-b4237 Yeah, but GTA 4 really worked that realistic, pessimistic shitty feeling through with the help of graphics. So in that sense, it was more than just realistic.

[@Jordan-zk2wd]

I fucking doubled over laughing because you seemed so genuine in having remembered it as "bravery and kindness" whenever it was "courage and kindness". That was either an excellently played joke, or despite how incessantly annoying the message was, because of how much they repeatedly drilled it home, it was still so fundamentally forgetable that you couldn't remember both the words

[@emmy8526]

It’s there to be embroidered on pillows and other tchotchkes at the Disney stores

[@anjabartlog496]

I think the ending of the original Mulan makes more sense, as the movie is at least partially anti-war (the burned village scene, the plot point of her elderly father being drafted) In the original, Mulan's end goal is to preserve peace, and her family, and in the end she gets to enjoy the life she fought for(although the war is still going on, her village is safe). the ending of the remake is interesting because Mulan goes on to serve as a general, but this is still portrayed as the disney style happy ending of the movie, almost implying that the end goal of war is getting better at war.

[@Mylo8328]

Watched this when it came out on patreon but immediately watching it again cuz I love the unhinged energy of this video so much

[@ThomasZElliott]

Gotta agree with Syd C, This new unhinged energy is just so watchable, I demand more! 🤣

[@thegrimpeeper8865]

It was highly amusing

[@FTZPLTC]

A weird concern of mine thinking about the Pinocchio clock scene is... all these CGI/non-practical effects basically mean that there's not going to be much to put in museums of movie props in the future. I know that's not likely to be a major concern to most companies, but I kinda feel like it ought to be a concern for a company that has those museums.

[@Jordan-zk2wd]

Digital components to museums with some of the original files from the production woukd be a great addition regardless tbf

[@fred2310]

Disney VR museums would be cool. Imagine exploring the scenes of each movie.. I doubt they'd ever do that, though, since hackers would yoink the assets as quickly as they could.

[@ohnonotthemagain7088]

@@Jordan-zk2wd I don't know if they do it anymore, but at least when they finished Toy Story 2, they just... deleted all the assets. they managed to bring them back because one of the animators happened to have a backup made at her house, but if that's still what they do... I don't think we'll get a museum of those anytime soon, either.

[@CyberGrapeUK]

@@ohnonotthemagain7088 The Toy Story 2 deletion incident was firstly, an accident, and secondly, happened before the movie's release.

[@Mecharnie_Dobbs]

When Buzz Lightyear guest-stars in 'Ralph Breaks The Internet', he looks different. Did they accidentally delete his file again?

[@janeeyre1990]

I have ADHD and often look away from and/or stop listening to videos or repeatedly pause and restart them because they can't keep my full attention for long Changing up the visuals so drastically with each new movie you discussed kept me almost fully engaged the whole time I watched, and I watched all 51:55 of the video!

[@azuill1126]

cruella could have so easily been an interesting story about how like, in pursuit of extra-judicial justice, estella becomes more and more like the person she's trying to stop, which would then serve as an actual believable reason anita would have ever been friends with her. could have had a really nuanced take on the "those who fight monsters" idea and set her up as a tragic villain in the same way maleficent did. uh but then the movie didnt do anything interesting at all

[@sangieredwolf]

wrong

[@charismartin1169]

I'm literally only like 8 minutes in but I HAD to comment on the biggest atrocity I personally saw in Beauty and the Beast: the original animated film was about being odd, different, and a social outcast, and the story was largely influenced with gay music writer Howard Ashman who poured so much of himself into the Beast - society viewed him as a monster because he had AIDS and it was the height of the AIDS crisis. Gaston was the conventionally attractive epitome of straight cis masculinity and he expected Belle to conform to her role as a conventionally attractive straight cis woman. But she couldn't do that, she knew she was different and even though it made her a social outcast she was not about to change. Instead she found her partner in another social outcast, and she taught him that he wasn't a monster, he didn't have to be angry and strong all the time, he could be gentle and soft and kind and affectionate. It was a movie about rejecting the status quo and finding yourself, it was a movie about masculinity and femininity, and it was a story told by a gay man who died of AIDS before he could hear how many awards his movie won. The remake sanitized the whole story - they changed the message and ruined the villain and I can't think of a single reason why they felt the need to do that. It's the biggest reason why I hate it so much (although Belle's ballgown in the remake was also hideous enough to make me never want to watch it again).

[@charismartin1169]

NOT TO MENTION that Disney's remakes have sanitized the queerness (or the influence of queerness) out of some of the most iconic Disney villains of all time. Andreas Deja, who is an openly gay man, was a supervising animator at Disney for Gaston, Jafar, and Scar. Jafar and Scar are queer coded in both their designs and mannerisms, and Gaston stands as a clear antithesis to queer presentation. In the remakes, Scar and Jafar are dulled down to boring, run of the mill, cold and calculating villains with no real personality, no flair, and nothing to make them stand out. And Gaston's character, while still an image of straight maleness, is removed from being a symbol of toxic masculinity and is instead portrayed as a literal attempted murderer - one dimensional, dull, and blatantly evil.

[@pleisha]

This made me cry, beautiful analysis, I never noticed how much of mr Ashamn was on the Beast, and now I cant unsee it (in a good way) I have to rewatch it again for sure (also, yes, the new ballgown was absolutely horrible in every aspect, it also didn't helped that Emma Watson refused to use a corsé and it looks kind of weird/lame because of that, unlike the Cinderella one, that was stunning)

[@queenning28]

Couldn't have said it better. Btw that ballgown was a huge disappointment. The original golden dress was one of my favourite Disney princess dresses. I can accept the blue dress in the Cinderella remake (even though it was silver/white in the original animated film) because blue is objectively a great colour, plus the design of the dress was breathtakingly beautiful. But Belle's dress was just all wrong, from colour to shape to material etc. I could tolerate almost everything else if that ballgown was done right. They managed to cast an actress who looked 99% the same as Belle, but somehow couldn't make the exact same dress as the original animated one. The laziness and audacity. Unforgiveable.

[@johannageisel5390]

@@queenning28 I was hoping so much they would put her into an all decked out rococo dress. With a metric ton of bows, silk drapery, embroidery and lace engageantes. And of course actual elipsoid panniers underneath. It would have been okay to add a scene in which she slips off the panniers and the dress and rides to the aid of her father in just her petticoat and stays.

[@Attmay]

C-s is a slur. Flagged for hate speech.

[@taylorbruceehlert9067]

I really like how he’s starting to make his shots more visually interesting. The visuals really emphasize his surreal sense of humor

[@emi.mp4]

can't believe this comment doesn't have more likes. he popped off on this one!

[@liamfritz8290]

Joel giggling while doing one of the best cinemasins impressions I've ever seen is so good, honestly iconic

[@Gloomdrake]

@beyond your imagination why is the current bot trend claiming to be links to a clip that everyone is asking for?

[@Gloomdrake]

@beyond your imagination why is the current bot trend claiming to be links to a clip that everyone is asking for?

[@CabezasDePescado]

Just report them for spam as i do. Also, fuck cinemasins.

[@LezbeOswald]

i totally support Joel making more videos in the style of an unhinged cinemasins parody. honestly the most i laughed during the whole video

[@Lu4455]

@@Gloomdrake Probably because someone is more likely to mistake it for an on-topic link

[@OoglyWooglies]

I have a conspiracy theory that Tim Burton stole the idea of the Alice in wonderland remake from American Mcgee which is kinda upsetting bc 1) Mcgee actually cited Burton as an inspiration in the files of I think the first game and 2) Burton apparently said he never really *got* the original book which annoyed Mcgee and he said he didn't like the movie when he finally saw it lol

[@johnnyjohnson6643]

Seems highly plausible. Not because I think Burton's a gamer or has even SEEN this progenitor game in action, but because "Alice in Wonderland, but grim" became huge because of American McGee doing such an incredible job with it. Burton probably got a very superficial (Which is all he seems to be capable of, anymore) familiarity with the idea.

[@andrewstepanek8933]

@@johnnyjohnson6643 "Alice in Wonderland, but grim" did not get big because of American McGee. There were entire series of novels and multiple movies about how fucked up Alice in Wonderland is dating all the way back to the 1940's. The first time you heard about something is not necessarily the first time it happened. American McGee took a very common thought, "Alice in Wonderland has some creepy shit" and made a video game about it. It's good, he made a good game, but he's not some innovating genius.

[@maddieb.4282]

@@andrewstepanek8933I think you should relax a bit my friend

[@FTZPLTC]

That last point about a movie being vulnerable - and the fact that these remakes *never* risk being vulnerable - was the best and simplest summary I've heard of why these movies are so frustrating. A company with so much money and so much brand recognition that they could absolutely take a risk won't do it, even when not doing it will make the remake pointless.

[@darnfrick3354]

My nephew is just a year old baby who can't talk, however watching him watch the new Pinocchio really said a lot about the psychology of these remakes and the overall quality compared to the originals from an objective standpoint I noticed he was mildly engaged with Jimini (that how you spell it?) Cricket in the intro, and then when Gepetto started playing with Pinocchio, he just got scared for a second and then confused and lost all interest after that Before this he was watching Disney cartoons for hours and couldn't take his eyes off the screen even to take a nap. The updated movies have this consistent pattern of putting him to sleep, making him grumpy, or scared, and overall boring him. Mind you, these babies also watch Bubble Guppies for hours at a time. The movies are boring. Less expressive faces; darker tones and colors and lighting; worse renditions of songs that are supposed to be good, being "sang" by CGI characters who, again, lack facial expressions; and none of the heros and villains meaningly fulfill those roles. All of this stuff adds up to a remake that shouldn't happen. What is the marketing logic going into these films other than "it's *live action* "? The very foundation for the idea of these films just isn't practical in terms of making a fun, bright and engaging film for all ages. It's for no ages at all. Not babies and not adults such as ourselves

[@BMoser-bv6kn]

I don't think it's really meant for kids. As you say, they'd be packed full of vibrant colors that stimulate the neurons if they were. I think they're exclusively targeted to boomers, people born back before colors were invented and realism is the only thing they can get into. The type of absolute psychopath who loves the CGI Transformers movies for some reason, but has zero interest in actual Transformers. The only type of person who'd pay actual money to watch a movie these days, I suppose. TV shows have gotten so much better and have shed the low production value they used to have back in the

[@k_schreibz]

These movies aren't made for anyone really, and they don't care about these things.They are a practice in ultimate banal money making, and that's really all they are. "Essentially, people liked the original, so they'll watch this too." is the only philosophy going behind these. All they achieve is sanitizing the originals of any "problematic" content like Pinnochio drinking or pink elephants on parade, stripping them of music and colors, and making the characters unlikeable 'realistic' versions of themselves. My pet theory is that years of cinema sin type videos calling out Disney norming gender roles and having weird shit like drinking and smoking in their original cartoons really freaked them out about their reputation, so these movies can also be said to be damage control of modern Disney trying to distance itself from its creative past, by creating something they deem ''marketable" in the modern global film market.

[@sabretoo]

That is really interesting and sad. Don't any of these filmmakers care about little kids? Bizarre.

[@TuesdaysArt]

I get confused whenever people defend these remakes by saying "these movies are for kids!". No, the ORIGINAL movies were made for kids (and were enjoyed by everyone). The remakes are for nostalgic adults who read too much Buzzfeed and are too embarrassed to watch an animated movie.

[@NotoriousLightning]

Guppies are cool. What do you have against guppies?

[@tylerthompson7461]

The amount of times I went “wait they remade ____?????” In this video is crazy. I’ve become so desensitized to the remakes I don’t even notice them anymore

[@mileskile9520]

I love big Joel’s unique camera angles they really kind of show a brokenness of Joel after watching all the Disney remakes.

[@armleg]

I remember one thing about Maleficent. My family rented the DVD in 2015, but it was clearly meant for newer TVs, because all the scenes were so dark that we could make out fewer than half of them. So what I remember about Maleficent is that I watched the whole thing and never knew the plot.

[@TuesdaysArt]

Light and color don't exist in real life. We all live in dark, desaturated caves.

[@rachelsongedits]

Very brave of you to come out of the closet publicly like this, truly an iconic move

[@peterprime2140]

Boooooooo.

[@rachelsongedits]

@@peterprime2140 everyone's a critic

[@DraftyCrevice]

moevie*

[@chicocorry1311]

@Rhela Uncounted society ☕️

[@NotoriousLightning]

Not cool gaslighting like this, pal!

[@andresirigoyen]

Those Pinocchio sins are 10x more thoughtful than the actually cinemasins comments

[@nashburt6635]

- This movie has too much exposition (ding) - I don't know what's going on because I didn't listen to the exposition (ding) - *Creepy comment about an actress* (ding)

[@menjolno]

I read it as pinnochet sin

[@bunni2583]

Jiminy Cricket isn't giving me a lapdance in this scene *ding!*

[@silverblue73]

yeah, that guy's just a loon with a schtick

[@kittykittybangbang9367]

Ngl, when I was younger I thought Cinemasins' videos were meant to be jokes, and not actual valid cinema criticism.

[@LaurenKarablabla]

Didn't the drunk Dumbo scene also serve the utilitarian function of allowing Dumbo to realize his gift of flight? It serves a real purpose.

[@mjr_schneider]

I don't know who these executives at Disney are who have determined that what audiences really want to see are their classic animated movies but with every drop of fun, colour, charm, complexity and artistic value squeezed out of them. But whoever they are, apparently they're geniuses because all of these movies made bank at the box office and we can expect them to continue to do so for years to come. Hooray.

[@chasesigler9885]

I mean it's parents wanting to show these movies to kids in theaters

[@tomisaacson2762]

Cus they know it'll make money. That's the goal and it's accomplished.

[@T0xXx1k]

This is why “We have no obligation to make art. We have no obligation to make history. We have no obligation to make a statement. But to make money, it is often important to make history, to make art, or to make some significant statement. We must always make entertaining movies, and, if we make entertaining movies, at times, we will reliably make history, art, a statement or all three." -Micheal Eisner the previous CEO of Disney until recently wrote that as like a mission statement for when he left his old studio for Disney. I really feel like that sentiment explains all you need to know especially since he was the mentor to the current CEO who credits his decisions on being taught by the best or whatever. 🙄 I'm paraphrasing here and there except what's in quotes is a verbatim statement. 🧡🦇

[@abdulmasaiev9024]

I don't know about geniuses. It seems kinda foolish really - people sure don't go for these things for quality, so if you're going to just use your IPs as kindling instead of building up with them like that, why not embrace the trash? Lower the budgets and therefore make even more short-term money (while choking off the long-term value, which you're doing anyway), when all is tallied up? This seems like less of a deliberate strategy and more of things happening to be this way.

[@nobodyinparticular9640]

Lotsa people with no taste or standards but enough money to go watch a movie

[@emexdizzy]

Big Joel has the objectively correct take here, The Jungle Book is the best remake. The animals are actually facially emotive, and also the new story is better. I like that the plot is about this little human child adopted by a family of wolves finding his place in his adoptive home and not the story being like "nah, these animals may be sapient but the fact they're animals means they can't be the adoptive parents and community this kid needs, lets abandon him twice" the way the original was.

[@spritingk6879]

It was a growing up metaphor, te original, Blatantly so, which is why the ending is so out of place on an narrative sense, but makes perfect sense if you consider the man village as just, adulthood, and even if you try to refuse to grow up, you will anyway, which makes the ACTUAL main charachter's arcs (Baloo and Bagheera's) much more complete and interesting than in the remake. I haven't watched the remake in a while, but though I can agree that some things it does better, I think it's much more generic in presentation and storyb than the original, which people generally miss was trying to actually go for something.

[@agentcallisto]

@@spritingk6879Right, Mowgli being drawn away from the jungle by a pretty girl is basically a puberty metaphor.

[@sarshrimp1476]

Having your zipper down during the laying on the floor bits was an unconventional, daring choice. So human, so vulnerable.