The Shotgun Dillemma

[@BigJoeySlaps]

Check out the discord! discord.gg/wTFRMgK

[@vitamin9165]

All of this makes sense when applied to the heavy, but nothing else, kinda weird that you took it from an all class perspective

[@Ofxzh]

I have a shotgun story I was playing as engineer and I have a kill counter panic attack and thought “I have a festiviser so I should use it on this on the panic to complete my festive weapon set.” So I do it and, a bug happens When I do it, it festivesed the panic in my inventory festive, but on the screen of battle it was the regular, unchanged, stock shotgun. So I was curious if it would still count kills(I didn’t) but I racked up so many kills that my team used me as a good example. Which made me happy since I suck at the game

[@blob5907]

panic attack and warriors spirit. ugh how do you not know this? The synergy between the two is really good.

[@Gammera2000]

@Aiden Rutske I think that's work better as a Sniper secondary. Giving Heavy two automatic weapons would be kinda redundant.

[@BunnyCoffeeAddict]

Personally, giving all of heavy's shotguns a 10 to 15% damage buff( changing how the shotguns look to reflect on that would be nice) and allowing lunchbox items to be equipped in the primary weapon slot would be enough.

[@makarymetzger2627]

"The Shotgun is something like an Last Resort Weapon" *Engie crying in Corner*

[@TheeOK1]

I think you make a small spelling error. Let me fix that * *engineer laughs in Widowmaker*

[@makarymetzger2627]

@@TheeOK1 Well yeah, ok.

[@daksmyth9320]

*LazyPurple intensifies*

[@shanethebrownwolf5575]

Engineers always the exception when it comes to shotguns XD

[@mkmasterthreesixfive]

Well... if Engineers actually doing their job have to use their shotgun.. Its because their sentry is down. So still a last resort.

[@eloriamedic]

6:08 starts talking about the banana, gets killed by a sniper named banana litterally seconds later

[@Bluepizza1684]

Lol

[@langus.]

Do you want a banana Heres a banana for you

[@carpet163]

You didn't make it to Banana land.

[@tandemcamden6587]

That guy is a good secondary

[@mashgore]

a year too late but also the clip from the beginning is from Tally Hall's song Banana Man

[@Lil_Burbger]

3:47 Shoutout to that pan massacre in the killfeed.

[@hvymtlrightybrent7339]

Panssacere

[@woah5546]

Funny how he was then killed by joey.

[@boonekeller5275]

nice

[@chillfreek1015]

Dude I’m shitting laughing rn that’s so funny lmao 😂 my guy got like 10 killstreak with a pan and only Brunswick noticed XD

[@mrmr_zoomie]

DEMOPAN?!

[@scoutsleftnut13]

"The shotgun is something like a last sort weapon" *Laughs in short Texan man*

[@PioterRArmia]

laughs in consistent pyro combo

[@bigdapramirez6157]

Laughs in widowmaker or panic attack

[@clichenachos3109]

Laughs in shotty soldier

[@clichenachos3109]

Laughs in serious fat scout brass beast combo heavy

[@Woodland_Adventures]

*Cries in smart dude from texas, as the kill feed is filled with his name, as his sentry gun gets kill after kill after kill, and all he does is swing his wrench over and over and the monotony of the situation he finds himself in slowly sets in*

[@samuelchurch5124]

Honestly with how unviable the shotgun is on Heavy it's pretty weird that Heavy has a shotgun only he can use, the Family Business.

[@juliangardisky7236]

Just imagine how insane that shotgun would be for the other classes... Pyros, Soldiers, and Engineers can combo other Weapons with that SO WELL, It'll be borderline OP. I mean, just imagine say... Using the rocket jumper with the family business... or using the degreaser with it. I think it's kinda fitting... Have the best shotgun in the game be used by the class that will almost NEVER practically use it.

[@samuelchurch5124]

@@juliangardisky7236 I think that one good use of the Family Business is to use it in combination with the Brass Beast. When using the Brass Beast either pair it with the Dalokohs Bar to make yourself extra tanky, or equip the Family Business and use that as your primary weapon until you can find a spot to settle down and rev up.

[@Treblaine]

That seems like a shotgun that should be powerful enough that it's only balanced for such a big and slow class and would be OP if used by Soldier or Pyro. But the Family Business is just a direct downgrade, it takes 19% longer to mag dump but a full mag dump does only 13% more damage. And the reload is way longer. It's just worse. In contrast, Panic Attack is essentially a direct-upgrade but still not competitive with Sandvich.

[@ravensflockmate]

@@Treblaine it is objectively a direct upgrade

[@Treblaine]

@@ravensflockmate How? It has an objectively lower DPS. If the increase in damage is smaller than increase in duration to deal that damage that is a lower damage rate. I suppose it's situationally fractionally quicker at reaching damage thresholds on weaker classes but it's far worse against other classes as you just miss key damage thresholds. For example, stock shotgun can kill a W+m1 pyro in only 2 shots, but the FB cannot possibly frag pyro in 2 shots without a random crit.

[@elgatto3133]

The Stalingrad Suppressor 66.7% lower clip size 20% damage increase per bullet 25% greater bullet spread 30% more bullets

[@jackmoseley4959]

Minigun? Someone’s trying to make you redundant!

[@TrueRandomPlayer]

Something like the panic attack?

[@HoxtonRules]

Its a double barrel shotgun i think

[@pfitz9346]

@@jackmoseley4959 when did the minigun have a clip size

[@GlitchedRed]

Pfitz Technically always, if it isn't considered Ammo Capacity

[@bocodamondo]

isnt there a type of heavy in mvm that uses your idea of shotgun, and funnily enough, hes pretty scary if you dont know to deal with him

[@Alkivo]

bocodamondo hey man, apparently there is a fix to your computer virus, someone commented the fix in the description of your goodbye video, I am not a sub but I hope you see this

[@homergetsthejoke4414]

"deal with him" its mvm

[@wa994]

Homer gets the joke please stop ruining literally every comment.

[@Handlesareastupidsystem]

Giant shotyn heavies. They’re monsters. Also they’re meant to shoot down projectiles but the code won’t allow it yet.

[@josuelugosarchive1864]

@@wa994 the robot has the shotgun

[@Toofty]

I find the shotgun useful when playing Heavy as something to defend myself with as I run to the front lines

[@usernametaken017]

Welp. You got lost

[@usernametaken017]

And i have no idea how to make you go back to the top comments, so good luck

[@nordicsoda2425]

Did someone forgot about "The Family Business"?

[@cuteofdeath7361]

Nordic Soda everyone forgets about it because it’s trash

[@NEOthefriendlyYoutuber]

Yeah those heavys are the worst to deal with

[@silvorthegrand6976]

@@cuteofdeath7361 Hell no! with the increased clip size you just have to get closer to the enemy to deal some beefy damage and keep shooting.

[@WeepingWrangler]

Hell yeah, I can go on some massive tears using that gun with the fists of steel!

[@fenorlex1126]

I want to use it as Soldier

[@sandstorm9305]

This shotgun would make Heavy into a less sneaky spy.

[@chongwillson972]

what if they gave heavy a shield ? maybe a riot shield ...

[@thexylophone]

@@chongwillson972 i am heavy swat guy and THIS is my riot shield

[@dudlecore7358]

fatspy sounds good

[@PileOfScrap]

Fat spy 1 was holiday punch critting and taunt killing people Fat spy 2: electric shotgutsloose is just backstabbing people from any angle

[@krau6000]

No lie, this was actually the old Panic Attack. It was the perfect shotgun for Heavy and you could just roam with the damn thing fully loaded and dump into any nuisance you found if pulling your minigun wasn't favorable. It wasn't exactly high damage in the way you described but the insane DPS was practically a one shot and the benefits you could only get with health loss really didn't mean shit to the big boy. Finally, it synergized perfectly with the greatest minigun in the game, the Brass Beast. Able to practically be a primary weapon all on its own, the Panic Attack was able to make up for the BB's perfectly balanced shortcomings and letting you roam medic free until you found a nice crowd of unfortunate fools to rip to shreds with an even more fucking hilariously stupid amount of damage and added tank stats. Then after you finish euphoricly slamming your sweaty "thank you" bind, you could instantly make your nimble getaway at 70 health with your PA blowing its load twice as fast when it already did even more DPS than the stock shotty. In conclusion Valve sucks and if anyone wants to buy my Killstreak Panic Attack, DM me.

[@BigJoeySlaps]

😂😂😂 Also, I really liked the old panic attack too. Sucks they nerfed it

[@chnir6642]

Krau This, so much this. the panic attack was by and by far my favorite weapon to use with the Brass Beast and I was so sad and confused when it got nerfed into the ground in jungle inferno. Fat scouting or even just using the Brass Beast since then just hasn’t been the same.

[@MillerTM]

@@BigJoeySlaps In my opinion this is what the shotgun should be: Instead of a new secondary shotgun, how about making it the Primary with less damage falloff? Making it a viable alternative to miniguns upclose would really change the heavy gameplay, making him less situationnal.

[@theheiroflotharingia8543]

You guys forget, the reason valve changed the panic attack (they say in the jungle inferno update notes) was that it was the 2nd least used weapon in the game, valve wanted to change it to encourage use, especially now with trolldeirs since the 302 damage

[@auraguard0212]

The problem is that you still have to go against the Sandvich, and that the Panic Attack was made with Soldiers in mind and not really anyone else before they made it an all-class Shotgun.

[@zephyrsaix8319]

Imagine listening to the community This post was made by valve gang

[@TKsh1]

Imagine playing Heavy unironically This post was made by Diamondback gang

[@Nieveria]

imagine using a revolver but you don't need perfect aim to crit this post was made by ambassador gang

[@paingamingv2208]

Imagine playing a good game This post was made by the fortnite gang

[@Cirnein]

Imagine playing vac medic but doesn't know how to change to another type of resistance this comment was made by Phlog pyro gang

[@uh3622]

Imagine trying to backstab the enemy but they just turn around when you are about to do so This post was made by the terrible spy gang

[@spanish2927]

Large Joseph Smack Testicles has brought us a video

[@takefive5607]

Hail jeebus

[@NukieDookie]

The Spanish Inquisition I DIDNT EXPECT THE INQUISITION

[@genericprofile2381]

You know i wasnt expecting that

[@toastie8173]

r/Unexpected

[@engineerskalinera]

I propose that the shotgun be based off the KS-23 Russian shotgun chambered for the MASSIVE 23x75mmR - 6.27 Gauge! The barrels of these shotguns were reused anti-aircraft machine gun barells!

[@unknownentityenthusiast6765]

A LOTTA DAMAGE

[@JustVince7810]

No, make that the same cannon used in Stalin's very own fridge, the KV2

[@honorguard7616]

May I suggest a double barrel ,sawed off stock but longer barrel tohelp show the difference and 200 max at point blank,two shots prior to a reload where he puts both shells in and falloff drops down to a max of 25 damage at range (If all pellets hit) give it 10 pellets that do 20 each and a wider spread than normal ,And a butt stock shove (Minor damage of 5 but does KB

[@faceless2302]

I like keeping with the russian theme but frankly I don't expect these shotguns are anywhere near as strong as the numbers might imply. I expect they work on low pressure loads with high pellet counts, basically like a glorified 10 gauge. Part of the reason I come to conclusion is the light weight of the gun in question and the frequency in which they were made stockless, anything actually much stronger than a 3" magnum 12 gauge just doesn't seem practical for the platform. Videos of them firing actual loads like #4, 00 Buck, or slugs are seemingly nonexistent from what found in my search, so it doesn't seem possible to confirm either way.

[@TrueNinjafrog]

@@faceless2302 There is one round, however, that does make the KS-23 extremely powerful for this video's intent: the "Barricade" round. It's a single solid steel projectile (like a slug) that can destroy a car's engine block from 200 meters. It's an extremely powerful single shot delet cannon that could definitely be something of interest in TF2, maybe with heavy dropoff so it can't just nail people from absurd ranges. The other rounds that the KS-23 has that are of normal Buckshot type are still of notable power, despite the gun often coming stock-less. Remember, the Russians are a very interesting group of peoples, and I'm sure that they have a valid reason to have it be stockless other than recoil. Most likely that it is a weapon of special forces groups that may need to work in CQB EDIT: Turns out the shotguns you've been seeing may have been chambered in 4 gauge instead of the proprietary round that is used normally, because of its civilian export model taking said ammunition.

[@BlueDragon1504]

How about giving the heavy a primary shotgun? That way you'd have an alternate playstyle and you could still use the sandvich

[@insertsomerandomassname2479]

I have this idea too.... But this will make secondary shotgun so useless its hilarious its there in the first place

[@deekay7018]

I'm sorry for commenting this so late but: *Pulls out Main shotgun* *Wastes all ammo killing other team* *Pulls out second shotgun*

[@maximumquartermain]

Bag O' Chapz that would be hilarious 🤣

[@mateuszmarciniak2828]

@@deekay7018 Heavy Reaper

[@pineapplecultist3192]

That would be op tho

[@DangStank]

Engie mains: *kick down door* *deep fried intensity sound effect*

[@reanterhog5701]

*crit sounds and teammates dying in the background*

[@supeesanic4287]

*YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE INTENSITIES*

[@c.mitchell2900]

LETS DO THIS TEXAS STYLE

[@medicindisquise4271]

In TFC, there was two shotguns: A regular shotgun that most classes got, and a SUPER SHOTGUN that basically doubled the pellets shot out. Guess which shotgun the heavy got? Actually, that's a trick question - he got both shotguns. The regular shotgun was carried over from TFC, but the super shotgun was left in the dust sadly. I think adding a super shotgun would be a great weapon for heavy - perhaps shooting two shotgun shots at once, with less reserve ammo?

[@ralphthejedimaster]

difference is the super shotgun in TFC does about half the damage the stock shotgun in tf2 does at close range, and the regular shotgun is just worthless doing only 1/4th of the tf2 shotgun's damage. something like the super shotgun from open fortress would be perfect i think, maybe give it 2 shots instead of 1 but even 1 is fair for how powerful it is

[@StickMaster500]

The only time I would even consider using a Shotgun is when I’m equipping the Brass Beast because of its slower spin up time and slower movement speed while deployed which can leave you extremely vulnerable if you suddenly come across an enemy around the corner that will most likely kill you before you even get the chance of firing your weapon. Having a Shotgun in that situation kinda fixes that problem. I feel like if they made the Lunchbox items their own slot instead of it filling up a secondary slot, I think Shotguns would become more useful overall while giving new Shotguns to the Heavy like the one you mentioned in the video or a Shotgun that increases your movement speed on kill.

[@abdallahamin4253]

The food slot idea is very good

[@LD-sx9pr]

Seems good idea, but should the Sandvich be stock for that slot or something else can be it?

[@Bizy17]

@@LD-sx9pr The Sandvich is an achievement item, so the Sandvich also being stock wouldn't make sense, prob a new lunchbox item would be good

[@tehdoctah2404]

A shotgun that increases movement on kill? I can already think of a name...

[@hydra4370]

You're the only person who I dont mind seeing in the comments on most of my videos.

[@legendaryfella3236]

The shotguns actually pair well with the brass beast since they offer a quicker source of damage meaning you don’t have to solely rely on the brass beast and it’s slow spin up time.

[@vert3432]

Alternative idea: "The Blowout" + 66% Pellets per shot + 50% Rate of fire - 20% More spread - 10% Less damage - 33% Clip size *When fire button pressed, entire magazine is fired*

[@thatguybrody4819]

So x10 force-a-nature but for heavy

[@WeepingWrangler]

Force of Nature

[@kiro_luv8424]

Hmmm the old panic atack

[@combinemetrocop4213]

So this is the same type of shotgun as Force-a-Nature? Does a lot of damage up close, but useless in long ranges.

[@vert3432]

@@combinemetrocop4213 Yeah, but spliced with the Panic Attack

[@DinnerForkTongue]

Honestly, Joey, I think the problem is that Heavy _doesn't need_ a sidearm like the Shotgun acts for him. So instead of thinking of firepower, maybe the idea could be based around Misha's actual downfall: mobility. Yes, the Tomislav makes him faster when spun up and the GRU makes him faster when not spun up, but fact is, the Heavy has no way of being quicker _and_ dealing damage at any appreciable distance at the same time (and no, the Moppet workshop gun doesn't count). So a shotgun with the same concept as, say, the Baby Face's Blaster (that BTW, I think is super redundant on Scout) would do our big Russian boy a lot of good. Although in all fairness, I just want Fat Scout to be a little more viable.

[@emptyglassbottles2555]

Agreed, specially the end bit.

[@Ang3lUki]

>destroying Heavy's one weakness Do you want all the classes to become bland copies of each other? Do you want Heavy to not be very heavy?

[@emptyglassbottles2555]

@@Ang3lUki Heavy is not just Heavy because of movement speed. He still has the largest hitboxes, needs to rev, and has no ways of quickly rolling out, other than GRU. Heavy getting a speed boost of sorts wouldn't break the class, especially if you properly nerf other components of his character for doing so. Pyro has a jetpack and the detonator, does that look to muck like Soldier or Demo? Would a Heavy walking at default or slightly below average walking speed be to much like Pyro or Scout? There are other components to his character, I feel your over exaggerating a bit, the whole point of the GRU now is to help one of his weaknesses, by diminishing one of his strengths (HP). It would take a whole lot of copying to make one class feel like the other.

[@Ang3lUki]

@@emptyglassbottles2555 The only way I could see it working is if Valve fully comitted to making the fatscout flanker meme work, and added a primary replacement.

[@DinnerForkTongue]

@@Ang3lUki Since the Ali Baba booties exist, it's not impossible... and I'd be all in for it.

[@Goobie303]

am i the only one notice this 6:14 wen he talks about the 2 banana he get's kiled by a guy named banana edit lol i did not expect to get an heart from joey XD

[@owenkrahl7446]

In the comments of that round, some dude was getting salty at 7:25

[@eddyfizio5349]

AT THE EXACT SAME SECOND HE SAID IT

[@cheesewheellord1434]

great eye sight

[@inactivepleasegoaway]

and he put Tally Hall - Banana Man in the intro

[@TheFoolishSamurai]

Considering the type of firepower Scout has, this is reasonable.

[@fancyb.p.6122]

Yes but the heavy doesn’t have much mobility to get good shots in so the damage would help a lot.

[@KingTigerGuy]

@HitSpaceBar the scatter gun has a max damage of 110, shotguns max is 90, i think the rest are the same though.

[@ultimatemacchia]

@HitSpaceBar you know, some weapons make u take more damage, maybe that's what ur enemies were equipping

[@bidcs_]

@@ultimatemacchia damage spread in casual means theres so specific damage, pipes always deal 100 damage without damage spread but can go up to around 110 with damage spread or down to 90

[@homergetsthejoke4414]

@HitSpaceBar bitch you 2 shoy scouts with the scattergun, yeah Nope.avi mate.

[@aj_art7201]

"Complains about shotgun being weak" "Dominates the entire server with the same shotgun" What

[@MrCastleburger]

With a pocket medic, it's possible to dominate a pub with just a frying pan. What's your point

[@gungisgrand225]

"Shotgun is more meant to be a last resort"

[@UseTheScience]

(Thanks to brunswick eagle for pointing this out) this guy at about 3:50 this guy just started going wild in the killfeed with the pan

[@unescoworldheritagesite7508]

@@UseTheScience hope it wasnt not a demopan

[@homergetsthejoke4414]

Complains? yeah go watch the video buddy

[@presidentforlife1732]

Fat Scout master race. *made by Fat Scout gang*

[@YatzeeWillWearAGreenHat]

1. You vould make this mega shotgun a replacement for the minigun, so the lone heavy plastyle would work. 2.speaking of minigun replacement, a portable dispencer as one would open a new playstyle for heavy, in which he would need a shotgun for self defence. 3. Trying to overshadow the minigun is a stap in the wrong direction. As I mentioned earlier minigun replacements would be better in my opinion. As long as heavy has his minigun, there's just no place for many new playstyles

[@isaiahstreblow1932]

This. Heavy is now the only class with no single-fire primary. A giant shotgun is the perfect primary to shake up the meta for Heavy. Putting it in the secondary slot just puts Fat Scouts in the big leagues, rather than preserving their meme status and creating a new character altogether.

[@YatzeeWillWearAGreenHat]

@@isaiahstreblow1932 the single fire argument is from lazy purple, right?

[@isaiahstreblow1932]

@@YatzeeWillWearAGreenHat Hey, you got it. Right on.

[@jgblkshot8375]

Yes.

[@lawrencemann8267]

How bout a minigun widowmaker with health instead of ammo and -90% healing from medics and dispencers.

[@vadorrodav4370]

I think a really simple but effective way to solve this shotgun dilemma for heavy is just adding another slot specifically for the sandvich and other meals. That way you can keep your secondary slot for the shotguns for emergency situations or when you need both mobility and making damage

[@pieguy6992]

"The Moschny" +200% Damage bonus -66% Smaller clip size -20% Slower firing speed -75% Wider bullet spread

[@lpmatthews7387]

+75% bullet spread*, "-75%" makes it more accurate, lol :D

[@man-made-man]

мощный

[@legobattledroid7979]

I feel like a good shotgun for heavy would be one with the ability to light enemy's on fire. Not only would this give him a new shotgun but it'd also buff the hulong heater. Imagine landing a few pellets on an enemy that is out of range of the heater's ring then you slap out your heater and mow them down

[@PyrrhaNikos115]

It WOULD make the Heater actually viable

[@mohammadwaled409]

@25Trey S "the Chinese Dragon" ?

[@wongyikai2126]

If they do add that shotgun for the heavy, I feel like it should be shared with the pyro as well considering pyro’s purpose is to light the enemy on fire and he doesn’t really have his own shotgun

[@bernabo9115]

@@wongyikai2126 although that'd fuck flares up, the whole purpose of them is to be long range fire secondaries

[@wongyikai2126]

@@bernabo9115 True, maybe a shotgun that’d do like extra damage against burning players while extinguishing them. I think there was a weapon with that stats that was tested on karma charger’s channel. Then again, who knows when valve will add new weapons again lol probably not for a long, long time.

[@DashFlashTheLife]

“The Big Bang” +100% damage +25% pellets fired per shot +Reloads weapon when not active -Has massive recoil and knocks player back -83% smaller clip size (one shot) -Can only reload when not active

[@sean.a.s7234]

Imagine turning a corner, enemy heavy at point blank range, you're about to get a crit..... and because you panicked you missed him.

[@razgriz4978]

After watching this video I thought up of a weapon I called "The Big Banger"

[@oneflappyboi3375]

So the force a nature 2 electric boogaloo

[@Mate_Antal_Zoltan]

>knocks player back >shotgun for the *Heavy*

[@juliangardisky7236]

So... a super-shotgun? WELL SIGN ME THE FUCK UP

[@Lucanoptek]

Well i hope it would be exclusive to heavy because it may be too good for other classes who aren't that slow

[@BigJoeySlaps]

Agreed.

[@epitomeofangels7920]

Imagine the shit show shenanigans that would occur if you gave Scout something like this

[@Messier__]

Flank pyro

[@semorebutts2584]

It's too good for heavy, A shot gun should not do that much damage for any class. It would be annoying.

[@chrislee1774]

+Voice Of Reason Obviously.

[@ARockyRock]

Definition of shotgun: It be a gun that does the shot.

[@rickfeng4030]

I think shotguns are really only effective with the brass beast. Having a reliable damage source really helps.

[@neckbeardnetwork9959]

“Most heavies don’t use the shotgun” Me- I use the strange shotgun more then my strange chocolate bar.

[@ceru3707]

A fun name for the shotgun could be "The Fatmann"".

[@bobatea2845]

He's talking this about this new shotgun like it's game changing when you forget the fact demoman can just turn the corner and instantaneously kill any lite/medium health enemy with a single pill, given the right reaction time.

[@thataintfalco7106]

No he can’t. It takes at least 2 pills to kill any class in tf2 other than the Kunai and Big Earner Spy. Plus, whilst the shotgun wouldn’t be game changing, it’s still be a big thing for heavy

[@gregorymirabella1423]

hey, during scream fortress, i saw someone named big joey scary nuts with a professional kilstrike tomislov, and he looked like you but zombified, was that you?

[@BigJoeySlaps]

Maaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyybe 😏

[@krazy4940]

Big Joey Slap-Nuts Translation: ye

[@ibanganimeboys]

Good job son i now know what name to look out for in halloween

[@BonziBUDDY]

Slap nuts* killstreak* tomislav*

[@gregorymirabella1423]

@@BonziBUDDY thanks

[@DespairBringer]

I love the shotgun on heavy (got used to it, before the sandvich was released). Sure food items are great, but shotgun brings movility that few players expect, this unpredictability is vastly underappreciated.

[@spynyi]

6:16 anyone find it ironic that when he starts talking about the banana he is killed by a sniper named banana?

[@inactivepleasegoaway]

and he has Tally Hall - Banana Man in the intro

[@aliasraonic]

1:49 that heavy in the background window

[@scoutlox158]

that be teal opal

[@TKsh1]

Shotgun is complicated; s much as I love using it, Tomislav and Sandwich makes it pointless. I don't think giving a bigger damage fall-off would help much as the TF2 Shotgun is one of the few shotguns in games that are actually good at anything past close-range, but then, a full auto shotgun would be hella overpowered. The stock needs a buff in damage and maybe less spread to give some edge.

[@YatzeeWillWearAGreenHat]

In my opinion, the problem is the minigun. As long as you try to balance around the minigun it's over or underpowered. If you want new playstyles you have to work with minigun replacements, like this 200 dmg shotgun. You could give him also a portable dispencer as minigun replacement as an idea

[@YatzeeWillWearAGreenHat]

@DrIvanRadosivic So the way I get it do you think a minigun thst gives ammp while spin up could help the shotgun to shine?

[@WanderingHermitCrab]

#BringBackOldPanicAttack

[@YatzeeWillWearAGreenHat]

@DrIvanRadosivic the hou long heater already loses ammo while spin up

[@Ang3lUki]

I feel like the close range fuck you cannon design is more interesting than just giving heavy a Shotgun+, I mean the Family Business is already that basically, and once again, it's just a fat scout meme.

[@josephrichards4618]

What about a primary that cant deal damage but gives a passive buff like the wee bootys, it would force the heavy to use a secondary or melee to deal damage. Heres my idea Dispenser back pack -Restores 4 health per second to heavy and nearby team mates but must ramp up to do so -restores 5% of max ammo per second to nearby team mates but not heavy - + 50 health - 50% less health gained from overheal - 50% less healing from all other sources

[@YatzeeWillWearAGreenHat]

Same idea

[@YatzeeWillWearAGreenHat]

But I think the downsites are in the wrong direction. Instead of a health buff, I would consider a health down grade to 200 hp and he gets ammo and healing from the Backpack, but less healing and no ammo from other sources

[@josephrichards4618]

I dont think it would see much use with a such a drastic health loss. And loosing the primary would be such a big downside, so this weapon would need to add survivability equal or greater than the lunch box items in order to see much use, maybe no health boost, and healing that can ramp up to 8

[@YatzeeWillWearAGreenHat]

@@josephrichards4618 Medic only has 150 hp and only a weak passive regeneration, so This heavy would still has much more survivability than him

[@saltyfish2751]

Option 1 Yeah that seems cool yet it could have different stats like -75% less health gain from overheal and -25% less healing from other sources. Then the ways that that can help other players like new medic players they will be discouraged to just stick to that one heavy for the whole round and instead just heal him and OTHER people in the team which after a while that would become a habit so they would start just wanting to heal the whole team instead of being a pocket medic and that would help the team. Also you kinda made heavy a portable dispenser and also if this weapon was thrown out everyone well who would play engineer why just not all equip that gun and and stay in a range where that buff can just regenerate, Ok here let me do some math 12 teammates x 4 health = 48 health per second and that is more then double the health per second on a level 3 dispenser a level 3 can give 20HPS/20 health per second and well 12 people just using that can get more health then a quick fix medic. Oh and the ammo 12 teammates x 5%ammo = 60% ammo per second and again that beats out the level 3 dispenser by 20% because a level 3 would only give out 40% ammo so you would already be able to get all of your ammo back from 2 seconds of just siting there so I,WOULD maybe nerf the 4 health per second to 2 health per second that still beats out the dispenser but it at least it would not be the crazy 48 health per second. Also the ammo just nerf it to 2% that would beat out a level 1 dispenser which only gives out 20% ammo an a group/12 heavies only would make 24% ammo and that would take 3.5/4 seconds to get all your ammo back and that still would be a lot of ammo but not crazy.Also no 50+ health. so that is one paragraph or essay done. Option 2 Just keep the 4 health regen to self and 5% ammo to self then it would not be able to just stack and destroy,Also solo heavies and cart heavies would be happy about it. and no 50+ health again :) 12T 12T T=Teammates 04H 05A H=Health ---- ----- A=ammo 48 60 Also you did not read all of this did you.

[@mstticr]

One major thing you missed was that the shotgun is often used as a “Finisher” act. For example, a soldier would shoot 2-3 rockets, then switch to the shotgun to finish the enemy. And this applies to every class that has the shotgun (apart from the heavy).

[@doc.voltold4232]

@@nicholasthesilly technically the sentry is the primary

[@mstticr]

Nicholas Ham Doc Volt is correct, Engineer’s sentry is often used as his “Primary”, since otherwise, you just have a shitty Scout.

[@eatyourcereal5651]

1:36 I love that there’s a tposing heavy in the background

[@starchycreampuf5234]

Teal opal

[@jenthelass]

"The Shotgun is something like a last resort weapon" Me, who mains heavy _JUST_ for fat scout:

[@Psychedlia98]

I think the shot gun isn’t that bad, but if there is a new heavy update (Which has the same chance of coming out when half life 3 comes out... never ☹️) then there should be a shot gun with a buff like you suggested, but I think slow reload time or risk of taking 25% damage to balance out the power of the shot gun

[@eenspammailspam7285]

Bakura98 please don't buff the shotgun, and if so make it a heavy only buff, you can 2 shot 7/9 classes anyway

[@motori8088]

it would be so frustrating to fight against at mega shotgun heavy who is camping behind an corner or to ambushing the heavy as an scout

[@eenspammailspam7285]

@LeCoolFace lol no

[@eenspammailspam7285]

@LeCoolFace heavys don't, pyros and engies and soldiers do

[@BlueSmoke216]

In my non-Heavy main opinion, shotguns seem most useful for Heavy in situations where he's retreating, so he needs mobility while shooting, or occasionally to keep from wasting time revving up for a long shot with little damage. The stock shotgun would probably be most useful with the Brass Beast (for speed reasons), the Natascha (speed again, but also its slowdown is negligible at range as well as less damage), and for the Huo-long Heater (less damage unless burning, as well as a chance of actually running out of ammo). I actually like the Family Business. Its speedy shooting can sometimes help me finish off a wounded enemy faster than if I had revved up a minigun and fired - the shotgun does all its damage at once in a shot (and the FB shoots fast), while the minigun has to go through a few bullets per second. Doesn't hurt that I tend to use the Natascha or the Heater as well...that may seem stupid, but I view it as my minigun is meant to help support the team somehow, while my secondary is for when I need to do damage. It will never be the most effective Heavy, but it feels fun to play and it can surprise enemies to pull out a shotgun.

[@william_brobrine8975]

The surprise is what is why it's fun to use it

[@fenorlex1126]

*Equips Reserve Shooter as Soldier during trip to Hightower*

[@agent463]

What if you just use the sandvich This post was made by hoovy squad

[@Rankerquat]

Speaking of memey secondary weapons that are way weaker than the kinds you'd find on other FPSs... It'd be nice to see a better Sniper SMG too?

[@Invisifly2]

Sniper can point and kill any class in the game, regardless of health. Give him too many decent close range options and you step into dangerous territory.

[@Invisifly2]

@Zesty Zucc Yes, but, assuming your opponents are dodging like they should be, doing so actually requires a degree of skill to accomplish. Or an aimbot I suppose.

[@kronkthemystic6144]

what you are describing is the panic attack

[@michellebolton2459]

Joey stop being so hot and knowledgeable

[@BigJoeySlaps]

WHYYYYYYYYYYYY are you like this 😂😂😉

[@Red-hy2wp]

*insert lenny face here*

[@markichonachoto]

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[@iamthemeguyhere]

I agree completely, as a half heavy main, I can say, the heavy needs this shotgun!

[@zanethezaniest274]

*Hazardous Environment drops* The Thumper : Allow me to introduce myself

[@IsaacDaBoatSloth]

Fix: lunch box items able to go in any slot when shotgun equipped

[@KingKayro87]

"Why in the world would you switch from the Minigun to the Shotgun?" Simple answer is that it's quicker. With the Minigun, you normally would have to wait a second before you fire on them, and that can give anyone a prime opportunity to kill you. You get caught with your pants down, and your goose is cooked. But with the Shotgun, you can deal damage much quicker. You don't have to wait a whole second to start gunning them down, you can just pump them full of lead and tear then apart. And as an Engineer main myself, I can safely assure you that the Shotgun is FAR from a last resort option. A clean 90 damage at point blank is nothing to scoff at. That can two-shot most of the classes in the game as long as your aim is good enough. Another benefit the Shotgun has by comparison to the Minigun is corner peeking. You simply can't do that reliably with a Minigun. Crisp, clean burst damage can obliterate anyone, especially if the person using burst damage attacks is consistently moving in and out of cover. You can't corner peek with a Minigun due to the rev, and that leaves Heavy with a weakness in that while he _can't_ get behind cover, the enemy _can._ Unless, of course, you're using a Shotgun. The Shotguns, mainly the Panic Attack and Family Business, also benefit from the Killing Gloves of Boxing. If you're using the KGB with a lunchbox secondary instead, then your only reliable use for the KGB's crits is with the KGB themselves, since the Minigun is too slow to truly benefit from the crits. With the Shotguns, however, you can just melt through the enemy in mere seconds with a KGB crit. The Heavy's biggest weakness is his speed, or rather his lack thereof, but the purpose of the Shotguns is to mitigate that weakness. Two clean shots from a Shotgun can be devastating, and it can be very useful on Heavies that do a lot of traveling.

[@The_Raging_Russian]

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Give the gopniks some love!!! Also the shotgun and the sandvich need to be in separate slots. The sandvich needs to be a stock item.

[@BigJoeySlaps]

That's really one thing that would majorly fix the problem, but I don't think Valve will ever realistically go through with that. Not to mention, if you throw either shotgun or sandvich in another slot, it might just repeat the problem

[@domino1518]

I disagree with the idea that it should be a stock item, because then Heavy Milestone 1 would have to have its item changed. None of the other classes have had their achievement items changed, so it doesn't really make sense.

[@YatzeeWillWearAGreenHat]

That wozld be overpowered

[@The_Raging_Russian]

@@domino1518 Maybe it's time for some damn major change. Make the milestone drop another lunchbox item like a hypothetically buffed buffalo steak sandvich.

[@domino1518]

@@The_Raging_Russian or just leave the Sandvich as is and make said buffed steak sandvich the default maybe? Making the Sandvich default wouldn't sit well with people who had to WORK for their lunchbox(like me).

[@ZeroAudioOutput]

Could work as a Family Business buff. No one seems to use that weapon

[@Ze_N00B]

I do

[@WeepingWrangler]

Sees more use than the stock, though.

[@PhaxtolgiaLegacy]

Strange... Considering that weapon is almost a straight upgrade.

[@fenorlex1126]

I do.

[@Cat780j]

I use it with the tomislav and the eviction notice , for the black market business set.

[@nofivefivesevenseven]

0:09 yooooo! banana man! i love that song

[@bardofvoid174]

I personally find the shotgun not bad for if you simply run out of ammo, especially if you do so consistently, though then you just become a fat scout until you get an ammo pack.

[@0rdnajela664]

The new shotgun could be called "The Soviet's Slugger" Oh, and to answer the question of what I think of the shotgun? I love it! Edit: After re-watching the video, I got some more ideas than just the name: 1. Take the damage down to about 175 (35 Pellets at 5 damage each). It'll still take out Pyros and Demos, but not 1 shot soldiers, but here's the thing, (Now as a soldier main this hurts for me to say) if a soldier is taken from 200 to 25, you're trapped! You can't rocket jump away, and the heavy can easily just swap off to his mini-gun or even just try and fire the shotgun again to take down the soldier. 2. I'm a little short on hearing so excuse me if this was included and I didn't hear it, but make it deploy slowly, otherwise it's just a melee weapon :/ 3. It'd need a pretty high spread rate, something like the panic attack 4. 3 (Clip Size) shots to reward skill, 2 shots from this can kill a max health anything (Even at the 175 I proposed) and 3 can kill an over-healed heavy, I just don't want some new players running around using this thing like the backburner 5. This might be contradictory to the last point, but I think it should fully reload in one animation with Increased max ammo capacity (Not clip size)

[@bouteilledeau1463]

NAaaAAH! Just make it crit from behind like the Badburner. :P

[@jeeBisOkay]

Actually it should have to reload after each shot. It's a secondary after all, and it shouldn't be a replacement for the minigun.

[@thefuzziestmonkie1515]

Holy shit, I've wanted to name a shotgun that forever.

[@baker90338]

The KS23 fits this idea perfectly. And terrifyingly.

[@Shaymin0]

1:36 That eyelander range

[@0rdnajela664]

He wasn't using the eyelander though ;/ I'm sorry but I had to be that guy

[@bekativus]

kill bind

[@Shaymin0]

*obvious joke alert!*

[@bekativus]

*how is this a joke*

[@amaulana090]

4:03 I found that death very hilarious

[@ricardomilos7695]

how about that Medic at 4:32

[@callumshippuden1422]

They could make it so lunch box items could be used as a primary weapon, meaning, so they could use shotgun and have a sandvich or banana for healing

[@GunSpyEnthusiast]

"the shotgun is something like an last resort weapon" battle engi : ah, so turns out im allways in a last ditch effort senario. fuck.

[@sodaddict]

What they should do is bring back the Ludmila, but as a Shotgun: +50 health on hit Healers receive 25 health on hit -20% slower firing rate -50% clip size 15% damage vulnerability

[@potlovinchef15]

A shotgun that gives a sandvich on kill with it, with less damage and a smaller clip than stock tho

[@TritonSparrow]

Watched a vid on how to use brass beast and shotgun is gold with it(any available shotgun really kinda works with brassbeast)

[@yeah-sx1dj]

3:09 the sandvich is such a good item it turns the red medic into a blu medic

[@tankthomus]

I love playing heavy with the shotgun. I don’t think its as good as the sandwich but I think it does fill a roll. Its allows heavy to do damage while being mobile, rather than stationary when the mini gun is reved up. I think a way Valve could buff the shotgun is to allow it to have a faster switch to and switch from speed. This encourages heavies to wip the shotgun out when reving up isn’t an option. Plus they could give heavy a slight 10% movement speed buff when the shotgun is out, encouraging heavies to use the shotgun as a mobility damage dealing weapon. Plus with this movement speed it allows for heavy to retreat to a health pack easier because he doesn’t have the sandwich. Those are just my thoughts.

[@Niiue]

1:36 T-Heavy stares you down! Viewer’s defense decreased by 490 T-Heavy stares into your soul! Viewer took 7392 of Mortal Damage! Viewer fell down and collapsed....

[@fenorlex1126]

Me: *Resisted!*

[@emperor_derd]

i personally don't think turning the shotgun into a burst minigun would be a good approach to fixing the shotty dilemma. one idea i've had (based on a sfm pic)was that if they added a shield to heavy, instead of making it a new weapon tie it to the shotguns, and make it so if heavy pulls up his shield he could still fire his shotgun. then shotgun would be the weapon for defensive/meat-shield heavies while the lunchboxes would be for the roaming, more aggressive heavies.

[@YatzeeWillWearAGreenHat]

The shield eould be difficult to balance

[@emperor_derd]

@@YatzeeWillWearAGreenHat so could any addition to heavy

[@martingammill-beck5846]

@@YatzeeWillWearAGreenHat True but it would be worth it, i think

[@YatzeeWillWearAGreenHat]

@@emperor_derd But f.ex. a back pack dispencer isn't going to be a must pick. Like in Overwatch a shield can be very easily one, especially if the game isn't balanced around shields since the beginning

[@YatzeeWillWearAGreenHat]

@@martingammill-beck5846 It could, but im afraid that it isn't balanced the right way and leaves heavy with a useless or a must pick weapon

[@Offdopp]

*3:08* The medic was auto balanced.

[@everettskorupski956]

offdopp Ha! Nice

[@Offdopp]

I don't know why I said this, he just walked behind the heavy

[@Jeikobu]

Idea for such a strong shotgun. It is a primary weapon, and does need to be 'prepped' first similar to revving, but it is faster to do. It is very powerful but has a reload and limited ammo capacity. Heavy moves slower with it prepped, but actually moves faster while it is not, maybe a little slower than Engineer, Sniper, and Pyro to keep Heavy on the slower end of the classes.

[@ahorriblepersonprobably.8013]

That’s just the panic attack-

[@Killablazedude]

Dropping the minigun for a shotgun isn't a Heavy thing to do.

[@goldndrago3491]

Use the Brass Beast, Family business and any meele on attack team, and everything will change

[@PurpleColonel]

How about, - normal damage dropoff - Double barrel, functions more like in Half life, but with only two shots.

[@blazedoge]

Uhh yea but rememeber how the force o nature went, people HATE its 2 sized clip and with a heavy he doesnt have the speed to run away and reload to try again

[@Queen-qi4do]

@@blazedoge epic answer to that is hit your shots

[@mrmr_zoomie]

“One shot kill shotgun.” Scout mains: “Well shit.”

[@ShakerSilver]

Something that should be noted, from launch up until 2010, the stock Minigun had a spin-up/down time equal to the Natascha's current 1.16s (not the 0.87s of now). This made the shotgun much more feasible for using it when you're out of position and can't afford to spend time revving. Currently, the shotguns works best with similarly slow revving miniguns like Natascha or Bass Beast because of that weakness, and primarily on defense where these miniguns excel.

[@nickytembo4112]

Then the stock minigun and the tomislav needs a rev speed nerf.

[@captain_hammer]

Read the chat at 7:30...

[@BigJoeySlaps]

😂😂😂

[@TheReconSpecialist]

The Underhammer He’s so tilted that Joey killed him.

[@catherinevo6060]

The Underhammer xD

[@ashtonp.8441]

Imagine using the panic attack This post was made by shotgun gang

[@gustavoalverez6934]

Not every character needs a crazy burst damage choice and also not gonna say a word about the family business

[@GreenPaintz]

While most would scoff, I believe the shotgun (and its variants) suit the brass beast really well. The reduced mobility of the brass beast creates a large enough movement disparity to justify a shotgun. I've been pairing these two together for over a year now, and it seems to work quite well. I do lose lunchbox items, but the synergy between Brass Beast and shotguns is often enough to keep me alive. I do run for health packs more often, but that just changes the gameplay loop and overall positioning of the playstyle. A lot of heavy's advanced mechanics are based on positional nuance, and shotguns play a big factor in that nuance.

[@Truth4None]

One thing I've found with the shotgun, is if you're using a noisy revving minigun, people will get peppered by it, and just hang out around a corner and wait for the unrev. A swift shotgun blast surprise is often the last nail in their coffin. Or you can just use the Tomislav 🤷‍♂️

[@sanderdegroot4891]

+ 200 damage up close - No critical hits - 33% less ammo capacity - after 5m the shotgun deals less damage than the stock shotgun

[@smellthat5350]

4:54 So the panic attack.

[@stormy3905]

Very good video bro 😎

[@oshawott5308]

nice taste joey, that banana man at the intro.

[@JimBimBum]

i think it's funny joey forgot the panic attack can 3 shot a heavy at point blank before his gun is revved up. he basically wanted the panic attack without knowing.

[@YellowScar2014]

Haven't watched the entire video yet, but I think Heavy's shotgun problem could be fixed by giving him passive regeneration when not using a lunchbox item. You wouldn't be getting as much healing as with the Sandvich or Bannana, but you'd still have *some* healing in addition to the firepower. This might even make the Brass Beast viable considering how the shotgun is the best secondary you can use with it.

[@Ryusuta]

I think Fat Scout with the Family Business is honestly a decent alternative to the miniguns in pubs. People really do underestimate it a lot. Obviously, the same doesn't apply for things like Highlander, but that's because Highlander has an unbelievably rigid meta, but for pubstomping? Hell yeah the Family Business (and Shotgun I guess) is a viable alternative.

[@theghastlygamer2484]

(scout picks up the heavy shotgun off of his dead body) Scout - kills entire enemy team Enemy team - cries in spawn and begs for mercy

[@radioactivetoast5177]

There is a shotgun concept called the "Thumper" that looks exactly like that, and i think has the same stats

[@TheONLYFeli0]

BIG JOEY YOUR SHOTGUN IS REAL IN CREATOR.TF

[@spacegators1775]

The flare gun atuly counts as bullet damage

[@nzcroc1229]

Personally I think that a big problem with it is that if you were to run out of ammo, you could take about 5 seconds to walk to and ammo pack and be closed to fully stocked on ammo again, making the shotgun a massive space take up for something useful like a sandvich. The shotgun might work well with a minigun that say took 50% less ammo from crates.

[@PotatoPatatoVonSpudsworth]

Heavy could also use a huuuge variety in lunchbox items... so here are a few ideas: 1. A lunchbox item that heals as much as a Sandvich, but refills based on damage dealt, instead of over time. This could make it reload much faster or much slower than the Sandvich, depending on the situation. 2. Lunchbox item that heals Heavy a small amount, but heals teammates a large amount when thrown. Reloads fast. This allows Heavy to play a more supportive role. Alternatively, just strapping a lvl 1 dispenser to Heavy's back would also be real fun. I've always wished Heavy had ways to shore up his teammates in defensive situations. 3. A bottle of protean pills with 3 charges. Each charge is consumed almost instantly, and heals 75HP. Good for when you don't have time for a meal, but need a little extra health. 4. A lunchbox item that provides damage resistance for a short time after consumption. Throw it to give a teammate damage resistance. Possibly removes knock-back as well? 5. A paper bag containing an unknown meal. Eating it gives Heavy a random buff.

[@megakinesio]

I guess my solution to this would be having shotguns and lunchbox items in different slots instead. Spy (and Engie but there aren't any different PDA's so I am not sure if that counts) already has 4 item slots so it wouldn't be an entirely new concept. It would give a player more options to work with when selecting equipment. It could also combo with a new lunchbox item that gives a temporary buff to shotguns so that you can do all the crazy shotgun stuff you were talking about, but in a more balanced way instead of making a new shotgun that is just undoubtedly better than stock or any other shotgun. Though if the Heavy has a new slot for equipment it would require them to either make the sandvich a stock item or include a new lunchbox item for stock loadouts. I'm probably just yelling into the void here but oh well.

[@heinrichkrull2523]

I know your comment is old, but what if they made the steak work with shotguns as well.

[@loafofuraniumfreshlybaked569]

Just give him the DOOM supershotgun.