2004 NBA ReDraft: Dwight, Iguodala and Deng Lead The Way | Bill Simmons’ Book of Basketball 2.0

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Joe House for the latest ‘Redraftables’ to revisit the 2004 NBA draft, which included Dwight Howard, Andre Iguodala, Luol Deng, J.R. Smith, and others. The two also discuss how Emeka Okafor's, Al Jefferson's, and Shaun Livingston’s careers all could have gone dramatically differently if not for injuries.
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[@misternogood]

Im setting the "clippers season tickets" over/under at 7 minutes

[@DenisSidran]

Wish i could have taken waaay under.

[@aro327]

misternogood ill go with a push. Thats exactly where i think it should be.

[@elitheeconomist5674]

Under

[@brandenhill8426]

It's fair because the clippers were picking at the top of the draft almost every year, I get why you'd bring it up allot

[@johnnybaddsee]

Between “Clippers season tickets” and “....Celtics” that 7 min over/under applies for anything Bill Simmons does. Movie rewatch ales, actor interviews... you name it.

[@inwhichidie7171]

Shoutout to whoever added the original pick graphic

[@domsant24]

I am so stoked that this series is back!

[@SM-1-6]

They need to do it every year until 2011 or 2012

[@Kirbystare1992]

EssEm stop at 2015

[@SM-1-6]

@@Kirbystare1992 Disagree. 2015 is very much still up in the air. We still dont know who will be better between Booker or Towns and Kristaps lowkey had an INCREDIBLE second half to the year he even might turn out the best. The role players redraft rankings are still up in the air 2014 has the same problems with not knowing how the role players careers will fully turn out and the top of the draft isn't clear either between Jokic, Embiid. Guys like Wiggins, Lavine, Gordon had rough starts to their careers but have looked more promising the last few years, Maybe they could start at 2013 but i still think it's premature for that draft even. The only clear cut pick is Giannis at 1 in that draft while all the other guys are still writing their stories and proving themselves

[@Kirbystare1992]

EssEm convinced me a little bit

[@travisrowe7697]

EssEm you could still redraft it for fun. I’d watch it.

[@ayeev4625]

Bill “I had Clipper season tickets that year” Simmons

[@razkable]

bill"james posey on the celtics" simmons..me: he was great for denver and the grizzlies and heat and solid for the hornets...I don't think anyone remembers him on boston for that one season...yeah its like his year on the pacers...

[@rodaxel7165]

Damn.. It took them a while to get to this one.. I love this series... I wish they could do it until 2010's..

[@BoxOffice22]

They will til at least 2010

[@wesmaly]

yea idk what took them so long to make more of these. i unsubscribed already cause got tired of waiting lol

[@wesmaly]

@Jackson Gilmore doesn't really answer my question about WHY they cancelled it

[@BabylonGateLA]

@@wesmaly It’s not that they cancelled buddy, these are part of the book of basketball podcast, which they do them like 8-12 podcasts once a year or 2 years! This ones are dedicated to the 1996-2010 draft, the most reasons ones they were analyzing player careers like Iverson, Rick Barry, Chris Webber, etc! Probably in 2024-2026 they will do the 2011-2020 draft guys!

[@wiscomusic]

Bill “if you replayed his career” Simmons

[@proseminded]

Everyone hating on the '04 draft, I low key love it. Lots of solid players with long careers who brought toughness, fundamentals & great intangibles. We all know who Dwight is. Look at Al Jefferson, a double-double BEAST from the old school. The renaissance man Iguodala. J.R., Ben Gordon & Kevin Martin shot with the best of them in their prime. Deng & Ariza were great defensive-minded wings you wanted on your playoff squad. Tony Allen may have the best case of anyone for the "Kobe-Stopper" title. Livingston is one of the most inspiring stories in league history, period. He was like Andre Miller and Josh Smith in one body. And Josh Smith...what? 2 steals and 2 blocks a game with vision off the bounce. He just needed the right coach to mold him. This '04 class has great hoops DNA.

[@aro327]

You forgot about 6th man of the year award winner Ben Gordon. His rookie year. He was solid player. Hes the real reason the post jordan bulls finally made it back to the playoffs. He also took over as the franchise leader in 3pt fg from scottie pippen. I remember the day of this draft i was at a baseball game and did not want ben gordon. He grew on me and has a special place in the history of the bulls.

[@proseminded]

@@aro327 I'm a Bulls fan, trust me! I'll never forget that '09 series vs. the Celtics. He was a killer. I mentioned him in there with J.R. & Kevin Martin in the part about shooters. Ben Gordon is one of my all time favorites.

[@connorsmith6517]

It’s one of those drafts full of key championship players. Not the NBA stars that lead a team to a championship, but the starters and role players that are crucial to a championship team.

[@colleenbaldridge6743]

Sebastian telfair was solid given his circumstances

[@dannyscoremore10]

Al Jeffersons post touch was beautiful

[@piteusx8440]

House is soft. Russillo would have ripped Simmons for picking Jefferson #4.

[@dannyscoremore10]

@@piteusx8440 Who would you have taken?

[@Peter-hx3im]

Jefferson's problem was that rim protection and rebounding are more important for winning than post scoring. He was only ever ok at those things.

[@李彦宸-f4n]

He was so good in those years. I remember being terrified of him because he always has his way with Yao.

[@Nes89]

Jameer couldn't shoot? He shot 46/39/81 in his first 7 years and 44/37/81 for his career. And he put up a number of 3PA for his era. His biggest problem was that he was 5'11".

[@robtaggore9931]

House has a bball IQ under 40

[@razkable]

jameer from 2007-2010 was amazing

[@jordanevans7710]

Correct. The dirty secret on the late 00's Magic was that Jameer was technically the point guard, but Turkolgu was the best passer on the team, (Hedo's vision at 6'10" was always going to be better than Jameer's at 5'11").

[@Cornholio17]

I never watched Jameer play and thought this guy can't shoot, he was a very good player and made huge shots when needed

[@vontosmagicmurderbag2611]

As a Hawks fan, Josh Smith's career is heartbreaking. He could do everything on the court except shoot, but shooting was all he wanted to do some games.Great shot blocker and perimeter defender. Good ball handler and passer for his size. Incredible athlete. Just wasn't willing to play winning basketball.

[@razkable]

josh smith was the taller pf version of iggy in many ways...just way dumber

[@dylanwaters292]

Yes the return!!!

[@michaelmason7687]

Bill at 4:12: "They tried to create some calorie space"

[@razkable]

this man said 2009 playoffs for deng's legacy?..deng never played in that series lol ...2007 first round upsetting miami 4-0 as the defending champs is his legacy..as a heat fan he killed us we had no one to guard him or gordon

[@TheOddMindofSamBo]

Josh Smith’s big problem was the fact that he started going too hard on the threes and stopped trying on defense. He was really special until around 2011 and then I stopped being able to put up with his BS.

[@TheOddMindofSamBo]

Vagabond_Charlie oh yeah, I loved those teams to death

[@Firebert]

Yeah, also that team gave him WAYYYYY too many isos. Isolations are some of the worst shot opportunities in general, but they are particularly bad when you give so many to a guy like Smith who can't shoot worth a lick. It would be interesting to see how he'd fit in a modern offense.

[@danielelez4863]

I remember buying 2k11 at a certain point where Smith's 3pt percentage was actually decent (on low attempts), which dipped hard later on. For a moment in time, however, it made him thr most unstoppable player in that game on both ends

[@holymackenaw]

You forgot Bruce Bowrn as prototypical 3andD guy of the 2000s. He couldnt do anything else, not even shot a FT.

[@jamesR1990]

Al Jefferson was one of my favorite players of the era. He was a really fun center that could do everything on offense you could ask at that time.

[@hudsonsmith5671]

A Tony Allen 3 point shot in the FedEx Forum was worth 10 points

[@BrotherBilo7]

Lol

[@davincerica7232]

I *LOVED* those Memphis teams... ZBo and Tony were my favorites

[@bb2757]

Man, I really forgot al jefferson existed, dude was really a beast at one point

[@eboooo]

Bill Simmons said that the Celtics were tanking for Tim Duncan with Al Jefferson on the team. He definitely meant KD.

[@Israel-nb7ip]

Nah, he I think he meant Greg Oden who was in the lottery that year. He was probably reminiscing about the '97 draft where it was similar circumstances. They ended up trading for both KG and Ray Allen that offseason after not getting a top 3 pick.

[@eboooo]

@@Israel-nb7ip He meant KD because the Celtics wanted KD. Oden was wanted by everyone else though.

[@EzekielSadamir]

Thank you, that was bothering me

[@75aces97]

Odd Simmons assessments here. He concludes Josh Smith was a guy "you couldn't win with" and yet teams did win playoff series that they otherwise had no business winning. He was an odd Antoine Walker type player who looks awful by advanced metrics, and yet somehow he'd have postseason just crazy-enough-to-work moments like that Houston series win while Harden was on the bench. And yet he considers Kevin Martin low key good even though he never contributed toward winning efforts.

[@darryldeas411]

EXACTLY!!! Numbers don't lie,🧏🏾‍♂️ but the never tell the whole story.🙅🏾‍♂️

[@Weaponator18]

Agreed. I think Simmons' more modern takes are too shaped largely by the idea of 'this guy would be good in the modern NBA because he could shoot 3s.' Kevin Martin was the Zach Levine of his era; largely an empty calorie guy. Josh smith was a little better than that, and isn't going to be less kindly remembered because of sabermetrics.

[@75aces97]

@@Weaponator18 yes! Lavine without the handle now that you mention it. He keeps going with how well all these guys would do today as if a 3 point shot automatically equals suitable. If you weren't good 15 years ago, you're not magically effective now because of some change in rules or philosophy. But also, teams want a. 3 and D guy, not a 3 and nothing. One thing remarkable about this class is Josh Smith is only 34 yo and Martin is 37, but it seems like they've been out of the league forever already, and not because of old age or injury. During the 90s expansion age guys like these seemed to linger on rosters forever, but anymore you can get left behind fast if you don't have the skills that coaches want.

[@trvspvrk]

because simmons is obsessed with players who shoot 3s prolifically and efficiently

[@razkable]

bill forgets westbook got hurt in 2013..k mart was a fine fit...

[@tobiaschaparro2372]

Bill simmons: Josh Smith is not a winning player. Also Bill Simmons: let me pick a player who never won a playoff series instead.

[@razkable]

smith and conley are so underrated

[@prolifik5]

Followed by noted "winner" Kevin Martin...

[@UtotheJ]

@@razkable Conley... yes... Smith... hell no

[@hunterwade9030]

Josh Smith was pretty good

[@RedPilledDan]

Middle school me thought Emeka Okafor was gonna be better than Dwight. Even got one of those ugly orange jerseys still in the closet somewhere.

[@TheOddMindofSamBo]

He’s still a loto pick in this draft, IMO. He goes to a team like Phoenix, he gets really good.

[@burnzyburnswild]

They didn’t touch up on Okafor nearly enough. Could’ve been the man in Charlotte for years to come. When he played there he was kinda underrated. Him Gerald Wallace Ben Gordon and Jason Richardson isn’t a bad squad.

[@jayjones9225]

Hey he was great in winning a title at UConn. That was a sick team with him and Ben Gordon. Dwight just obviously had freakish athleticism and size that Emeka couldn’t match when he got to the NBA

[@aro327]

Wait until next year i wanted a blue bobcats adam morrison.

[@t-god2439]

Don’t insult my hornets lol we will win a championship in 3099 you just watch 😂

[@bradfordbarnet688]

Thank you for bringing these back! I'm so curious what happens with guys like Brandon Roy who get injured in a weaker class. Is the injury inevitable or do you draft as if it didn't happen? We saw the Jay Williams decision, but we never got to see what he was. Similar w/ DRose. If he falls to #2 and Westbrook becomes #1, does Rose still get injured if drafted by the Heat. And with this logic wouldn't that likely make him better than Westbrook if he never gets injured? I LOVE DRAFTS. Thanks again.

[@57wookie]

Rose injury was almost an inevitability based on how he landed from dunks, I don't think it's a tmac situation where a reduced load would save him

[@Prince_Luci]

Still taking Russ.

[@aaronbanks7167]

A freakin' redraftable is my favorite Ringer content!

[@rodaxel7165]

Howard shoud've never have left Orlando. That team was built for him... With a decent coach.

[@NewGoldie]

I think he'd of been happier. Probably never wins a title there, but Orlando really loved him.

[@CheefChaos]

We going to just pretend the Leastern Conference wasn't owned by LeBron?

[@mrmacross]

@@CheefChaos It's not as though Dwight's career has been more successful for having left Orlando. If he stayed, he might've been kept his reputation as one of the most popular players in the NBA.

[@mantgrta9728]

DestructableMe how do u know that the magic would not if beaten them

[@County_da_kang]

@@mrmacross that was his problem. He worried about being popular. He should've said fuck the fans and force his way to Brooklyn instead of opting in for that last meaningless year in Orlando

[@tarohnfinley5200]

Great podcast didn’t realize how impact some of these guys were. I didn’t start watching basketball until most of these guys were buried in bench roles or out of the league. Should keep the should going to reach present day.Keep up the great work I love all ringer content hope one day I can intern with you guys

[@mattc6779]

Finally!!!! Thanks guys

[@bmillz6243]

Calling the Garnett trade an even deal is so biased. Coming from a Wolves fan here, we got Jefferson (19-9-2 stat line in less than 200 total games for MN, with no defense at all), 1 season out of already confirmed bust Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff (who was late 30s and only played 6 games for Minnesota), Ryan Gomes (12-5-3 stat line for 3 seasons for the wolves), and 2 future late BOS first rounders that basically netted Wayne Ellington (long before he would become an impact NBA talent). So essentially: 3 seasons of injury-prone, no-defense Jefferson and Ryan Gomes for a still prime Garnett. That’s fair Bill?

[@liamryan7239]

I love how you say you are a wolves fan just to show that your take is also very biased

[@reputablehype]

Do you like apples?

[@bmillz6243]

Liam Ryan lol that’s actually pretty fair. But still, I don’t think it’s at all a fair return for Garnett who the next year was DPOY and the 2nd runner up for MVP.

[@nathanshlap]

Well your team can't fucking draft

[@phamawa]

It was fair enough up front. Al jefferson was legit for a good stretch and could have been flipped. Same with two first rounders...but they also had to KG a solid.

[@nickmartin6144]

Bill “If you do his career 20 times” Simmons

[@BrotherBilo7]

I like those analogies though!

[@cascade9584]

Obsessed with the way Bill pronounces Biedrins

[@ElBrillante4]

He does this with other foreign bball players as well. For someone who watches bball so often, I wonder if he does it on purpose lol

[@jayjones9225]

Yes! Glad they are continuing this great series

[@TheMusicBeats13]

yes! finally you guys dropped this!

[@Sewrays]

I remember seeing a statline once on opponents FG% when Iggy was guarding the top players in the league. It was some pretty nasty numbers

[@razkable]

hes poor mans pippen..but playing next to kd green klay helps..thats an insane 4 some on defense

[@Dukebasketball8]

Fantastic series, glad it’s back! I also appreciate how it shows the actual pick now too.

[@M-PEEE]

Been waiting for this Bill!!!!!

[@dyoung7979]

Great show Bill, look forward to those every week...

[@8722jojo]

Deng had unsuccessful surgery on his leg and got an infection or something like that. I remember reading about it and that being what started the harsh decline

[@patrickmoore4712]

Hating on my Ben Gordon.. He got after your celts!!! Great bulls memories.

[@charleskummerer]

For how much Bill talks about guys playing better in the current three point era than they did during their time, he really should have liked Gordon who was a 41% 3pt shooter!

[@emo_LeBron]

fax i would’ve taken him 3-5

[@iank3924]

If Horry and Iggy are in the hall of fame in Bill's eyes then put in Gordon, Noah, and Deng. Why not? Everyone gets in.

[@kaizerchief17]

As a Pistons fan since 2003, I have strong feelings against Ben Gordon LOL (and Josh Smith and Charlie Villanueva)

[@patrickmoore4712]

@@kaizerchief17 I think its more a pistons problem than a player problem. Ha ha. I get it man!

[@travismoore3506]

so glad this series is back

[@g83plude]

Finally. Best show on the channel by far. Just do the nfl or whatever when you run out of nba drafts.

[@zaxx29]

NBA desktop and slow news day imo are better. But it's kinda hard to have those shows when nothing is going on.

[@bilalabbasi8445]

I didn’t think that Andre Iguodala or Loul Deng would have 50 point games, but I thought a prime Dwight definitely did it. That Kevin Martin stat really surprised me.

[@pat7504]

Glad Deng went 3rd, didn't mention much about the defensive side of his game. A good on ball defender but a great team defender. Those 2010-2013 Bulls were some really good defensive teams. Had some great games against the Heat. Bad injury luck in the playoffs.

[@razkable]

deng in 2007 had a 2014 finals kawhi like series vs miami where his stats don't tell the whole story...he dominated us...

[@pat7504]

​@@razkable He lived round the corner from where I was born in London before he moved to the states. I watched most of his games when he was in the league and yeah his stats were never really special but he was a really high quality player. I learned more about the game from watching him and those Bulls teams than from most of my coaches when I played as a teenager.

[@freezergeezer7880]

Joe saying Iguodala's FMVP was good for the league automatically disqualify him from voting on any NBA award, ever. The media patting itself on the back despite historians of the sport (which Bill used to be) ranking that as the second worst FMVP selection (behind Unseld) shows that they shouldn't get to decide the legacy of players anymore.

[@rockfloyd5514]

THANK YOU SO MUCH!

[@sundiatasolomon]

The fact that they could place Kevin Martin so high and have jr at 13 is mind blowing to me... And if I have to hear about that cavs series against gsw one more time 😡

[@elwesimtv3959]

Dwight's Orlando Magic was extremely exciting. He postirized so many guys while having fun. Not to mention Turk and Nelson were throwing crazy lobs to Dwight. If Iggy's an Hall of Famer, then Dwight is no doubt Hall of Famer as Well!!!

[@dionysise5008]

Best n only show is back!

[@SilverKen15]

dwights magic were the most fun we have ever had in orlando. We were LEGIT

[@rollwithem]

Please don't stop doing these!

[@TheShachattack13]

For a 47 minute video, I’ll set the over/under for the number of times bill mentions he had clippers season tickets at 3 and a half

[@tbaze27]

How can you say that Iggy is a Hall of famer but Dwight Howard isn't a man that won four straight defensive player of the Year awards and he's not a Hall of famer?

[@Jambit2550]

how was yao not fun ??? a 7’6 giant with a soft touch & beautiful footwork.

[@nuraby_9228]

Because he didn't do flashy windmill dunks and shit. It's why Bill for some reason is still all-in on KAT.

[@fifi24ablefifi18]

ben gordon too low!

[@benbeachjr.7564]

Amen! He was a top guy on the bulls if not the top guy at times. Vaerajo, josh Smith, Okafor Devin Harris, Kevin Martin, Nelson, Tony Allen. C’mon guys. D12, Iggy, big al, and deng I understand but. Truly Ben Gordon at one time was a dominant dude who took over games

[@razkable]

jr smith and ben gordon should go before varejao and tony allen ...these guys are confusing career fit team longevity a little bit luck role with talent....when you draft a guy you want them to have potential talent and guys like smith gordon reached that ...they weren't just bench guys or very mid tier 5th option starters like tony and andy......sorry...those guys had better teammates but they did not perform well...playing with the big 3 and git and grind and lebron curry helps tony and varejao's legacy...they were not that good...you could put jr and ben on any team and they will score for you

[@aro327]

Ben Beach Jr. he was the 6th man as a rookie. He would have been perfect on the suns

[@espud3834]

I’m sorry but iggy is not a hall of famer he was at his best a 18 or 19 ppg scorer as well as a decent playmaker. If he’s a hall of famer then Derrick Rose should 100% be a hall of famer. He was an all star then an MVP and he’s been averaging like 18 a game the last 4 or 5 seasons. I swear championships are overrated not for the stars but for roll players I swear championships are massively overrated

[@grayeighty8974]

Im not a larry o' brian or bust guy either but how isnt iggy a hof?. 17 6 6 in his prime great defender a winner. Compare his stats and playoff #'s to other hof 3's and he's right there man.

[@hao15]

Being a Finals MVP is enough to get you into the HOF

[@espud3834]

Hao Chen then why isn’t Billups in the HOF?

[@ElBrillante4]

@@espud3834 I think Billups is deserving too. Maybe he'll get in eventually

[@razkable]

iggy never led a team to the playoffs avg. over 15 ppg...hes not a hall of famer..he just isn't...hes a poor mans pippen...even at his best like 70% of prime pippen......he makes pippen look great as a 1st option honestly

[@clipscaughtcold]

they need to redo this list with today’s game in mind

[@sirbradfordofhousejones]

Love the Coop shoutout!

[@Wolvesofsheep]

I really don't understand why Varejao made this list. I mean bump everybody up, put Livingston at the 14, and leave him off. The argument could be made that Livingston was more of a contributor to a championship than Varejao ever was. And, it was multiple years with Golden State. And, the guy was at half of his athletic potential because of the knee injury. I really would have a tough time finding a reason as to why Varejao makes the redraft other than longevity

[@dextert20]

Im a bulls fan and I remember when watching Josh Smith, all im thinking was "please start shooting 3s, please start shooting 3s". He was so good with everything else but he kept going back to that 3

[@Wolvesofsheep]

I like how these analyses switch. I mean, you could make an argument that you could coach up Josh Smith to be more efficient. And, to you Bill’s own words, in a different universe, he could have been a dynamic player… just a thought

[@unoriginallusername]

Drafting Ben Gordon at 14 is EXTREMELY disrespectful

[@razkable]

j.r. smith can go 6-7 ...how is he 13?...makes no sense..hes top 8 for sure ben is top 11 for sure..get emeka varejao and tony out of my face

[@gio7388]

Josh Smith was misused. Someone needed to tell him to stop shooting 3s. He should’ve been used similar to Rodman. Rebound, block, steal...if you get the ball find the open man, etc. You only get to take shots around the basket (layup/dunk) unless you’re wide open or the shot clock is running out. Would’ve been a great 3rd option on a winning team with a coach that could figure him out like Phil.

[@kevinmac2298]

Ben Gordon at 14 with guys like Varejao, JR, and Tony Allen over him (i had him at 7 overall but just to name a few) makes me wonder how much time they put into these lists lol

[@razkable]

emeka over ben is a joke..ben is right there with jameer nelson either ahead of him or behind him at 10 an the other at 11 with k mart and harris at that 8-9 spot in some order all behind j.r. smith who is at 6-7 imo with ariza its a debate.......j.r. was a starter on finals teams so i gotta give it to him he was key in 2009 on a west finals team as a 6th man starter hybrid basically was the sg and was a great player on the knicks as well ..he just had the longevity sorry....ariza?...he had a few years but meh...k mart?...what did he ever do?..stop it...harris was overrated always....i just think you can debate j.r. and ariza all day...harris and k mart were stats on bad team guys imo...they were role players on good teams...they were never top 3 bananas on good team caliber....

[@ayeepexxtv5854]

Jr Smith disrespect is wild

[@EzekielDBarrett]

Should do a video for which team has the worst dynastic era of drafting. I know Toronto's not the worst, but was just thinking about this horrendous stretch: 2004 #8 Rafael araujo 2005 #7 Charlie Villanueva 2005 #16 Joey Graham 2006 #1 Bargnani

[@scipio2009]

Two picks in and, for all of the dirty work that Iguodala does and was good at, what did the Bobcats have on their roster to cover the big ticket items that folks weren't looking at Iggy to fill in? Scoring, etc. This is why most re-drafts don't make any sense; folks willfully ignore current situations at the time in favor of projecting back someone's career

[@hunterwade9030]

I can agree with this. I always take these as a ranking instead of a redraft of the draft

[@jc1550]

What's up with House calling out Jameer Nelson's shooting ability? Shooting was like.. his strength?

[@nathanielruben6899]

Bruce Bowen og 3andD how they forget him

[@wadjay1117]

Ben Gordon was that first Bulls team that started seeing some success after Jordan. He should have been higher .

[@hmmahlahbahhhhhhhhhhhh2123]

People forget how nice he was just coz his career died in that Detroit trade

[@TheTheFisherKing]

Lmao wow Bill you gave the Raptors pick a solid 3 seconds on this 45min pod.....

[@DaHoopPanel]

Just starting the video, simmons really said Dwight wasn't exciting as a franchise player. From 08-2011 those Orlando teams were definitely fun to watch, Dwight had some of the top dunks of his career during that time period and was the best defensive big man in the game at the time. Orlando Dwight was definitely an exciting franchise player (he could have refined his offense a bit more)

[@razkable]

early 07- early 12 dwight was fun...you could put anyone around him and he dominated

[@aro327]

Andre iguodala for Calorie Space.

[@joeb588]

What is Bill doing? Varejao over Livingston and Smith? Okafor seemed early too

[@chb21fly]

As a Magic fan I strongly disagree with bill on Dwight not being a "fun" franchise player. Sure things didn't end very well, but watching Dwight dominate for 8 years was plenty of fun.

[@reputablehype]

He's just salty about 2009

[@casualfandestroyer2503]

ian kost Dwight has 4 top 5 finishes in mvp voting

[@razkable]

yeah 2005-2012 dwight was solid...

[@iank3924]

If Iggy is a hall of Famer so is every role player on a title team. The NBA hall of fame is by far the worst hall of fame. Good player but if he's your best guy you will never win a title. If he's your 2nd best guy you don't win a title. I just don't get it. Put in Kukoc and Horace Grant then. Whatever.

[@ldk8]

Josh Smith would be a much better pick than Al Jefferson in today’s NBA. Elite shot blocker, can play small ball 5, defends multiple positions, athletic rim runner for lobs etc. You can still be a contributing player without a 3pt shot

[@buenonobuenoo]

We need these!!!

[@BWalker9313]

Problem with Dwight is that he was a Center emerging as a dominant guy right as the big guys were starting to phase out and he was constantly told to be a back to the basket guy when he just wasn’t that guy, and then had a bunch of back problems to go alongside his massive ego at the time and it all came crashing down. Prime Dwight Howard would be a problem in the league today because of how good he was in the pick and roll and he wouldn’t be asked to be a traditional big. He’d be a WAY better version of Clint Capela

[@jeffreyjoseph1212]

Bill mentions how there's not many top 1 picks that ended up being the best in draft and it's true. Anthony Davis I remember reading predraft that he was the most sure fire #1 in 20 years. Back in 2011. When there wasn't too much information and hyperbole. When you wrote "best blank in 20 years" you actually meant it

[@mca217]

Ben Gordon wasn't 6'3. He was listed at 6'3 but he was really 6'1.

[@juanjaramillo96]

It's kinda bs to not take Shaun Livingston. They've made the "in the context of alterative universes, this is probably the worst universe for for this guy" argument for at least two guys they did draft in past redrafts. They legit spent more time at the end of the pod talking about him than half the actual picks!

[@razkable]

i love how bill said varejao and gooden beat the wallace bros in 2007...ben was on the bulls and big z was the starter varejao came off the bench as a 5-6 points and 5 rebound type bum....big z is putting up 12-13 ppg....and they had lebron...

[@JayOConnell15]

Ariza topic: Bruce Bowen was the original contemporary "3 and D" guy!

[@eboooo]

With Josh Smith it's tough to get rebounds after going for block shots.

[@haroldmajor88]

Who else was waiting for them to resume this series?

[@Odisumc]

Keep up wit the Redraftables Bill

[@210Dinero]

Bill “Clippers Season Tickets” Simmons

[@uscdude159]

big al was always underrated

[@CheefChaos]

He was pivotal to one of the biggest trades of the 00's, properly rated.

[@KRittz-yy1el]

Jr still my favorite Knick of all time

[@ccb2757]

We need the next one

[@dqsmooth34]

Most of those guys mentioned should be in their teams hall of fame, not THE hall of fame.

[@luke9648]

Ben Gordon .401 from 3 .857 FT should've been top 10 here

[@luke9648]

basically 20 ppg as a full time starter

[@nathanlee4722]

They ranked JR smith so low LOL wow His career was by far better than some of the people listed above him ex. Varejao, D. Harris, Josh Smith etc

[@tylerinnes3178]

I love Shaun I don't think he would have been better than prime Dwight. Bill Simmons really high on him wow.

[@iank3924]

This podcast makes me believe we need to destroy the mediadel. Putting iggy and horry in the hall is awful. Just awful.

[@grayeighty8974]

Horry isnt a HOF, but iggy is definitely a HOF'er put his numbers up against the great champion fowards he stacks up well.

[@vitocarlucci157]

If Mitch Richmond made it, Iggy makes it.

[@denistuohy2535]

Especially when people like Webber and Chambers aren’t

[@mxhughes]

@@grayeighty8974 he not a hof as popular as he was he wasn't a star he was a average ass player it's the kyle lowry,lou will,jj redick effect guys who were solid,decent or subpar early in their careers are treated like elites once they finally go to contenders and ppl forget they were regular most of their career

[@grayeighty8974]

@@mxhughes he wasn't average in his prime tho...you act like he was John salmons.

[@suba517]

8:54 Luol did not play 82 games 5 out of the first 6 seasons. It went 61, 78, 82, 63, 49, 70. That's 88 games missed. It's not hard to look things up and be right rather than try and sound smart and come off looking very foolish.

[@TheStop]

Basketball twitter extremely overvalues Iggy and criminally undervalues Dwight Howard.

[@SanFranFan30]

the 2004 draft is the "flawed Rewatchables" of NBA drafts

[@travisrowe7697]

When’s 2005 draft going down?

[@hummerhunner]

How does Ben Gordon slip out of the top 10?? The guy was a bucket. One of the best shooters in the league for years and 15ppg career scorer

[@AlphaMale505]

Wait??! Dwight Howard is not a top 50 player, but Andre Iguodala and Robert Horry are Hall of Famers. Can't stop laughing.

[@AlphaMale505]

@ian kost Right!! The HOF is reserved for players being "a top player of his generation". Not role players taking wide open shots, because "a top player of his generation" is being doubled teamed. Horry has a career earning of 50 million dollars. God forbid he makes an open shot.

[@MrVulcandeathgrip]

Yeah no way Iggy or Horry are HOF guys. Just no way.

[@sylvonbryant2786]

Bruce Bowen was the original 3 and D guy

[@razkable]

the original 3 and d guy was probably older sean elliot....its like his secret skillset...also horry was that on the rockets...

[@philipbammeke5196]

Andre Iguodala is a great guy but not HOF worthy... Horry, Tayshaun Prince, Bruce Bowen, MWP, Bryon Scott, Battier, Horace Grant, Laimbeer, Livingston, Ariza and all those great role players should be in the HOF based on the logic. That Finals MVP actually belongs to Steph and we all know this, HOF loosely used these days

[@razkable]

iggy saved the 2015 title but hes not a hofer...he earned that finals mvp for his offense which people forget putting up like 19 8 and 6 for 3 games or something while making it tougher on lebron....they were co finals mvps since without iggy stepping up they lose games 5 and 6 for sure...this is why watching the games in the moment is key cause in the moment it felt like the cavs would win and iggy saved the season and his impact swung the series..looking back curry was better but not by much impact wise and in a 50/50 call i am fine with them picking iggy....again watch the games iggy deserved it...the way lebron in 2016 deserved it...people trying to say kyrie deserved finals mvp in 2016 because of the shot and his performance in games 3 5-7 forget its a series and kyrie did not outperform lebron for the series or in any of the games...iggy did outplay curry in one game...big difference

[@philipbammeke5196]

Asmosis Jones glad you first agree he is not a hofer, hehehe 😁... on the finals mvp, your arguments for Iggy are valid and a worthy candidate but it was Steph to me still. Even if Iggy deserved it, people using just that as more or less the main point with his 1 all star selection to toss him into the HOF is what I find absurd

[@razkable]

@@philipbammeke5196 i understand why iggy won it...he slowed lebron down