Billy Corgan On What Makes A Great Songwriter

In this clip, Billy Corgan of The Smashing Pumpkins talks about his songwriting process and how he chases feelings over musical complexity.
Full Video: • The Smashing Pumpkins:...
📚The Beato Ultimate Bundle - $99 FOR ALL OF Rick's Courses. Get it here: ⇢ rickbeato.com
👂- The Beato Ear Training Program - $99.00 value
📘- The Beato Book Interactive - $99.00 value
🎸 - Beato Beginner Guitar - $159.00 value
🎸- The Quick Lessons Pro Guitar Course - $79.00 value
… all for just $99.00
Get it here: rickbeato.com
Upcoming Live Dates:
NYC - Oct 17 - livemu.sc/3CdE3pD
Berlin, Germany - October 28 at Passionskirche.
www.ticketmaster.de/event/ric...
My Beato Club supporters:
Justin Scott
Terence Mark
Farren Mahjoor
Jason Murray
Lucienne Kilpatrick
Alexander Young
Jason Wagner
Todd Ladner
Rob Kline
Nicholas Long
Tim Benson
Leonardo Martins da Costa Rodrigues
Eddie Perez
David Solomon
MICHAEL JOYCE
Stephen Stubbs
colin stead
Jonathan Wentworth-Linton
Patrick Payne
MATTHEW KARIS
Matthew Barouch
Shaun Samuels
Danny Kurywchak
Gregory Reedy
Sean Coleman
Alexander Verbitskiy
CL Turner
Jason Pappafotis
John Fulford
Margaret Carno
Robert C
David M Combs
Eric Flatt
Reto Spoerli
Herr Moritz Adam
Monte St. Johns
Jon Beezley
Peter DeVault
Eric Nabstedt
Eric Beggs
Rich Germano
Brian Bloom
Peter Pillitteri

[@rickbeato2]

Full Interview Here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pHLJnKt-mNaKgassi=vqZ3cZAWPN7nvcq8

[@chasemarkmckenzie622]

Rick, can you interview John Feldmann ?

[@paradox5391]

One of the best interviews you've done Rick. Billy is such an intelligent and interesting guy to listen to.

[@SpleenOverseas]

[@asincere7015]

Many songwriter don't know how to teach songwriting or explain in simple terms 😢

[@jimmyt5241]

That was a very great interview , you really bring out the best in people .

[@scalzmoney]

People say Billy is arrogant or full of himself. In an interview like this what do you want him to do? Hold back? Play dumb? He's thinking big about his craft and he can articulate it like this. Some day interviews like this will be the ones people watch for historic research. We'll wish that every rock star could discuss their music like Billy does here. Great stuff.

[@thedappercook]

Who said that?

[@stealthbastard8837]

He's not arrogant at all here.

[@scalzmoney]

In the full interview with Rick he basically takes credit for the sound and success of Nirvana's Nevermind. When you look around the internet there's a lot of negativity towards Billy for that kind of attitude.

[@NoeAnton]

I love both Nirvana and Smashing Pumpkins, I grew up with them, I listen to them frequently to this day. I'm also a musician and producer, and the truth is, Billy is and has always been way, way better musician and songwriter than Kurt ever was. Kurts music was simple and beautiful, but his success was more of a combination of factors rather than just pure, raw talent.@@scalzmoney

[@j.powellnetwork]

I agree. Being arrogant and being confident are two different things.

[@sgallagher27]

One of my favorite quotes from Billy was in the back of the Siamese Dream tab book (or some guitar hero magazine interview), where he says, "There is no right way to write a song, but there is definitely a wrong way!" Billy's an under appreciated songwriter and I know that at times he may come off with a big ego, but I still remember when my girlfriend and I were standing outside their bus when they played the Oz in Seattle. We asked if they could get us in to the show (as both shows were sold out), but he said that the list was full and to stand at the front of the door because they were going to be playing REALLY loud! About halfway through the first song, his manager came out and gave both of us all access passes. Show was amazing and afterwards, he came and found us to make sure we got the passes and then signed a promo pic for us. He'll always be a good guy, a hell of a guitar player, and a brilliant songwriter.

[@ShinyFlakesShinyFlakes]

He’s not under appreciated bro

[@heirrose1606]

never seen or heard anyone under appreciate Corgan he's been called a genius since their 2nd album

[@ZeroESG.goopootoob]

"Underappreciated?" The guy has had tons of fans, tons of money, and, most directly at your point, tons of accolades.

[@St0rm301]

I think the term you're looking for is over-hated. much like how people are picking one word out of your beautiful story and hating for it. I feel like for some reason it became popular for teenagers of the late 90's and early 2000's to love the Smashing Pumpkin's music, but somewhat hypocritically hate on Billy at the same time. For some reason it seems like many people that are attracted to unique new styles of music and arts often reject those same things when they become too popular. It's like they can't get over their own ego in feeling like they themselves are unique for liking a unique thing, and the growing popularity is for some reason seen an assault on their own individuality.

[@ShinyFlakesShinyFlakes]

@@St0rm301 there’s a reason ppl don’t like Billy. He’s very pretentious and unlikeable. Just is what it is. I’ve been a lifelong fan, literally a die hard fan of SP and Billy since I was 6 years old. I’m 38 now and still don’t particularly like the guy. The “hate” or at least dislike is not unjustified, he is a very difficult person to work with as history has proven and you can see those characteristics in his personality if you follow him long enough

[@honjon666]

"Billy Corgan, Smashing Pumpkins." "Rick Beato, smiling politely."

[@kochaos6129]

👍🏼 that gets 2-up from me =[]

[@avidodd26]

criminally underrated comment

[@sindresundetnilsen8419]

And the awesome zero performance on that episode :)

[@james5796]

Study circle of fiths and you will realise it is maths

[@MotorikBear]

Smiling Politely is a great band name

[@SocialCompression]

I love hearing Billy talk about songwriting and music in general. He has a directness and an ability to articulate his approach/philosophy that is refreshing. Dude is a genius musician.

[@thegolfingmusician6345]

The key to learning is humility. Billy has that.

[@figgettit]

ROFL

[@kyleistheguru]

He has humility where it counts how about that haha

[@helloscreenright]

He talks about his genius in a way that makes you think you can do it. Amazing.

[@nncoco]

Right. He is not conceited, he is inspiring others.

[@BBaldwin]

Not a big Pumpkins fan, but I love listening to Billy. He’s very articulate and smart as hell.

[@openstrings1077]

This guy’s a friggin’ songwriting prophet. I hated you in the 90’s Billy but it turns out I was the douchebag not you. The light you’re shining now on your creative process is truly music to my ears

[@aaavellone]

Billy is a total douchebag. Or does how he treats other people not applicable?

[@Olehenry]

Hate really, or what exactly? I just ignored him, personally, I’ve simply never connected w/ any of his work.

[@aaavellone]

@@Olehenry While the Smashing Pumpkins were active Billy was known for being rude and just a giant POS to other people. Particularly his band mates.

[@Christian-fu2et]

Bro glazing him

[@robbiepeterh]

Speaking as someone who’s loved Billy’s music since I was 14, this interview is absolutely wonderful.

[@CreationsVibration]

The entire double album is an absolute masterpiece

[@deepsix1827]

The Pumpkins are probably my favorite of all the 90s bands.

[@marrow94]

Mine are Megadeth

[@blurrymagnet]

@ marrow94 I want him removed from the building!

[@Hilaire_Balrog]

@@marrow94ironic, mine are both.

[@ishmael2586]

​@@marrow94mine are Hanson

[@MrGilMoNayO]

Jane's with Eric

[@sladebrannon6917]

I absolutely love the way Billy speaks and articulates everything. His vocabulary is fantastic.

[@bveracka]

He's definitely well spoken and articulate. It's impossible to tell someone how you write a great song and what makes it so good, but he comes close. 'Seems obvious that he enjoys talking about his music. Many of his peers from the nineties don't, so I'm soaking it up.

[@robertmahoney1662]

Not even so much his vocabulary, which is vast- but his clarity of vision and what he wants to say, is incredible; comes thru in his music too.

[@bveracka]

@@robertmahoney1662 He definitely has a very "deep" way with words which comes through in his songs. His aren't cryptic puzzles - kind of like Maynard Keenan of Tool whose lyrics I love - but they're also not so straightforward that they're boring. I guess you could say one hallmark of good songwriting is the ability to get your message across succinctly, and Billy can.

[@throwaway6405]

Yes I could listen to him bullshit all day

[@sofarsogod]

most artists have high iq, specially songwriters. I mean he can write, he is supposed to know how to speak or say things.

[@jasonremy1627]

Muzzle is one of my top 5 songs all time. I never tire of listening to it. It's a perfect song.

[@chevy11786]

“It’s about how the music makes you feel, not how it makes you think.” Jimi Hendrix

[@GooseGumlizzard]

why not both?

[@joshuafriesen4436]

Leonard Cohen certainly makes you feel and think

[@Brandon75689]

Yea, with that, it actually knocks out a lot of genres that make music to make you think. Easy for Hendrix to say that when he was high all the time.

[@michaelphickey]

Rick, you are the best at getting pure gold out of these incredible interviews. Best of KZbin. Inspiring stuff!

[@sakkshamyadav2023]

He is right. Emotion is way more important than technique in arts.

[@graemeogle4492]

You did it Rick….you made me love him! You monster!!!

[@SupermanNew52]

You don't know how happy I am to see this comment. Billy shouldn't be defined by his few bad moments in interviews when he has a giant list of great moments with his music and interviews like this one where he's just wonderful.

[@tdz69]

I think Rick needs to adopt the nickname “Professor.” He is so well versed in not just music but the WHY behind it. You can tell that his guests really enjoy the sit downs. He gets to the heart of what musicians want to know and would ask and then some. Arguably one of the greatest interviewers around for musicians.

[@Allagi22]

He was a music professor at Ithaca College for many years.

[@bveracka]

Naturally, a big reason why he's so good at interviewing famous musicians is because he knows so much about music. It's the opposite of those chicks that MTV or VH1 would send out to touring rock stars back in the day; basically census takers with good looks. Funny thing about the "why" in music is that knowing about it doesn't _really_ help you write a great song. Obviously knowing theory helps immensely, and it'll help great songs sound great-er (lol), but the secret sauce is all in the artist. It's a funny paradox.

[@DoubleTailedDog]

Nah, he wouldn't take that from Neil.

[@bveracka]

@@DoubleTailedDog I don't get it.

[@Iam-still-noone]

@@bveracka😳 he talking bout Neil - the professor - Peart 🌹🥁🌹

[@bobwerber2984]

Rick you have some of the very best stuff I've ever seen about how songs are created. The musicians are so comfortable with you and and your level of knowledge that they open up wonderfully.

[@slick222]

People call him arrogant but miss how generous he is. He genuinely tries to share things that are hard to explain with people probably knowing it will sound bad at parts.

[@whychromosomesmusic5766]

Interesting how different musicians/writers have different viewpoints on the process of writing/composing. A great interview of Wire back in the day and a journalist said that they didn't "play the song like the 'original' version." And their response was that the original version was not even what ended up on the first recording. So "nothing" is really the 'original' version. I thought that was a great response.

[@adamprice3466]

I thought the movie That Thing You Do captured it pretty well. Each time they play the song in the movie it gets a little more refined. That last version in the movie is very different from the early one.

[@brandonedge1979]

Wire are great, and That Thing You Do is a good movie

[@alexanderlane6007]

This is amazing I’m not a huge Smashing Pumpkins fan but Rick has helped get me to enjoy so many artists I haven’t heard of and some that I have Rick you are a world treasure to music

[@C.SchitzPopinov]

I enjoyed watching this full interview but I love revisiting this part of the interview.

[@taylorvolleberg]

I love hearing the point of view of the artist. You get these stigmas about artists as you grow up, you hear these songs for years and years and develop personal opinions. When you finally get to hear the artist speak on their motivations and emotions, their purpose for writing... it becomes something new, it becomes a new form of magic. He said something mid way through this video about decision making in his mind, 'yes yes, no yes' I can full heartedly relate to that on a fundamental level. I'll need to watch the full interview but this clip was a very happy surprise. Thank you Rick for doing what you do and how you approach the reality of asking the real questions

[@wilssantos2]

Oh man. The skit just starts and he goes straight into the chord progression I've always loved the most in Smashing Pumpkins. Muzzle, to me, is really representative of the band - noisy, hard, melodic, sweet. Everything at the same time. Perfect song. (I miss the heaviness and the distortion in Smashing Pumpkins, by the way... there's always anger, you can't be just sweet or sad all the time) Tonight, Tonight is an amazing song too. The quality of their work on Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness is just out this world.

[@bhavearth]

such a precious moment ! Billy is so humble

[@James-ke4gq]

The smashing pumpkins and billy still to this day inspire me. I was in an arts high school when I fell in love with the sound and scope of the pumpkins and their classic albums. Listening to those solos and staring at the Mellon collie album literally felt like I was shooting through space through that album art. It’s so fucking cool and beautiful and heavy and made me feel a deeper connection to this world. I know that I’m meant for this world!!

[@user-du8lu5qr4g]

"The". It makes me chuckle when I see that. You may only know them as this name. Its not monumentally important that they (Billy) officially switched to this literal mistake because it was commonly mistaken. I laugh because adding the word "the", turns Smashing Pumpkins from a verb into a noun. They were a mischievous verb. Now theyre "Smashing, baby!" as well as pumpkins. And, let's face it, thats what the author chose to turn Cinderella's coach into after midnight.

[@zatchg1212]

I hear u. Mellon collie is a masterpiece, and the artwork on that album to this day is still magical to look at. In every way the album was perfect

[@James-ke4gq]

@@user-du8lu5qr4g the simpsons also played with the grammar of their name, if you’ve ever seen the sp cameo in an old simpsons episode. Homer meets Billy. Billy shakes his hand and says “Billy corgan, smashing pumpkins” and Homer replies “Homer Simpson, smiling politely”

[@brianhensien]

Beautifully stated

[@midnightbuffalo2760]

Love your presentations Rick. Always love listening to Billy talk about his art.

[@zatchg1212]

Billy corgan is one of the greatest song writers of all time. The pumpkins are so special to me, they provided the musical background of my middle and high school years. His music is forever a part of my life’s soundtrack

[@attentiondeficitsquirrel7660]

I was 20 when *Gish* was released. The first time I heard it was in October of ‘91 so about 6 months after it was released. My good buddy Derek turned me on to them. This was also the same night that I heard Nirvana’s *Nevermind* for the first time so it was quite an evening. I was very high on something my friend, Trey called ET. He was a microbiology major at Arizona State University and he had this powder that was used to facilitate the growth of bacteria and plant clones. It came in a big black bottle with a big white skull and crossbones on and somehow he thought to eat it. Well, it got you very high indeed. Somewhere between ecstasy and meth. Anyway, I digress. I thought Nirvana was great but Smashing Pumpkins BLEW MY MIND! Sonically they were bombastic and fuzz-laden but still very clean and super tight with their own unique blend of grunge, alternative, and psychedelia. *Siva* in particular rocked my socks off and *Bury Me* was just on a whole other level. And *I Am One* was, and still is, a perfect opening track. To this day, when I think about or hear that album, I instantly taken to October in the valley where all the sensations and smells still remain. I miss my friends.

[@evilldead6824]

what billy said at the beginning is so true. I like music for so many genres and most of the time i don't really know why i do but i just do. From Zach Bryan to Smashing Pumpkins Blink 182 Miles Davis to Enya! I think its much healthier to broaden choices and don't feel any shame for your choices!

[@SupermanNew52]

I use the same train of thought, I say my musical tastes go from The Wiggles to Cradle of Filth. That about covers everything lol.

[@CLaFong]

Please do more of these. How do they write songs? I don't have the voice in my head but I want to hear from people who do. The greatest thing in the arts is the ability to write beautiful music.

[@thefuturist8864]

In my experience, paying attention to everything that *could* be a song, or a part of a song, helps a lot. It could be a single interesting rhyme, or a melody, or even just an ambient sound; whatever it is, pay attention to it and don't dismiss it. Write it down, record it, or just do what Stephen King does with his story ideas and trust that, if it's good enough, he'll remember it. Having lots and lots of scraps of things to turn to when you need something to help you write is far better than having to start from nothing and work with nothing.

[@CamKnoppMusic]

For me I just pickup my guitar everyday and noodle around (basically just improvise) and sometimes (maybe like once a week) I'll randomly stumble across something catchy and I'll start singing along a melody, and maybe some words will come to me. I think most people have the capability to think of a vocal melody at least, its not nearly as hard as you may think.

[@queenhenry3314]

Hey there budding songwriter! Here's my approach from years of experience. Study and learn the music of all your idols, constantly... And focus on learning pitch by ear. You don't have to learn to read or write music (unless you want to of course!). But learning by ear is the best way to be able to work with others quickly. And eventually it will only take you a minute or two of hearing a song to know the chord progression and its melody. Pretty useful if you want to play music with others too. But that's just my philosophy. But anyways, back to studying to music of your idols... do this before you even attempt to write your own music. Listen. Internalize it. Study the way the melody moves and or the chords progress and you'll start to realize there are a hell of a lot of repeating patterns! And if you want to really be good you'll want to go back to the real real greats, i.e. The Beatles, Bob Dylan... then go learn from who inspired them like Muddy Waters, Howlin' Wolf or Leadbelly to get an understanding of where modern music came from and the strength it takes to overcome such adversary when the world wants to hold you down! You'll basically be enrolling in a master class of songwriting and music history... It will be inevitable that these great songs from the legends (especially the intoxicating sounds of Motown) will start to help you develop your own music! Reminder, ALL art and its creators are preceded by the artwork of those of their idols... thus don't be afraid if something you've written is inspired by something you've learned. There's a very finite number of musical notes, so focusing on developing rhythm is not only fundamental but your path to being original. Obviously you'll learn to develop your own style and strive for originality... But the key to becoming a great songwriter/musician (like myself, not gonna lie), is learning from the greats and then those who inspired them to do just the same. Dont be afraid to fail... you'll write 100 terrible songs before a good one emerges... If someone tells you different, they're full of it. But you'll learn from your bad songs just as much as you'll appreciate the amazing ones that will eventually strike you out of nowhere. It does happen and it's a rush in and of it self. Personally, the way I write is with a melody... on anything, a guitar, piano, bass or even a solid drum rhythm I've been kicking around... then I let it settle in my mind... and it slowly starts to fester into ideas and takes shape... then you gotta work at it... tweak it, let it be for a day or so, come back with fresh ears and see if it holds up... Also, just like any instrument, lyrics take just as much practice and patience. Try starting with poetry, like daily simple Haikus that you will train your brain to start seeing and perceiving the world around you differently... Write whatever comes to mind... No one has to read it but you until you start to feel confident in your new found poetic/lyrical view of life and this world which revolves endlessly in a beautiful flux of ever changing chaos through an infinite timeless cosmos! Trust me, I've been writing and playing professionally (guitar, piano, bass, drums, vocals and a litany of other bits and pieces, haha) for going on 20 years... not to be crass, but BMI handles my publishing for a reason... I mention this with the hope to not to be perceived as coming off as being holier than thou, but only so that you can maybe feel better about taking advice from someone who doesn't just talk the talk but has some boots made for walking (Nancy Sinatra pun intended!). I genuinely enjoy helping others find and foster their love of music. If you think about it, it's one of the few things every soul has in common, a desire to listen to music and appreciate those who are capable of crafting it. I have been lucky to have had the extreme fortune of doing my fair share of studio session work for bands and cowritten tunes with them or for them in times of need. Just know this, the voice in your head that you are looking for is already there, you just have to learn how to listen to it and nature its creative impulses. It takes patience and faith in yourself to make it happen. Not one single songwriter or artist didn't have to put hours into their art to make it worthwhile. Artwork of any kind is an emotional rollercoaster because it takes being in tune with your self as well as subjecting yourself to unnecessarily and unavoidable keyboard warrior critics who just want nothing more than to make themselves feel better by trying to tear you down. They never have the chops or credentials to judge anyone but themselves. You'll be fine so long as you feel confident in finding your own artistic identity! Feel free to hit me up if you need any more advice or pep talks. You can find me on IG @queenhenryviii and on all streaming platforms as Queen Henry. Be patient with yourself, listen and learn from past artists who've paved the way for everything you think you know about music and you'll be surprised at all the cool shit you'll be digging. I'm sure you'll be writing tunes in no time! Cheers and best of wishes on stating your path to becoming a fantastically talented songwriter. -Aaron (Queen Henry)

[@user-dc7um4pr3f]

The baseball analogy is the best piece of advice. Just write a lot. You have to have a lot of failed at bats to have hits. And you really only need to convert on a minority of the songs you write. But just keep swinging. Love that modesty. I'm an amateur song writer and sometimes you just get one that's actually good and people seem to like it. Then you show them something else you've done and they don't like it at all. Kinda cool that you can't turn it on. It just comes to you when you need it.

[@Roarksmusic]

Inspiration is a muse own it's own. Where does it come from? I was inspired to write a song about it myself.

[@DrWasabiBeats]

What a fascinating way to explain it Billy...wonderful! Another fabulous interview Rick 💚

[@snail415]

Completely, completely agree with all he laid-out. It all boils down to emotional connection. I think few people who learn very young in life that they’re gifted in their ‘sensitivity’ to the story that a song tells (through arrangement, dynamics, etc)…can write great songs with ease. Some of it is a gift, but more than anything it’s the awareness of the gift- and pushing it through life’s exhaust.

[@elosoguapo8137]

I think he’s correct, but I also think he hasn’t done it nearly as well as he thinks

[@bigdawg6308]

One thing you stated which I disagree with is "write songs with ease" The reality is the greatest songwriters put in severe amounts of effort, and editation on the work. Even the greatest, Chris Cornell, Slash, John Lennon, Kurt Cobain. I'm not saying their basis to work from is always hot garbage. But melody is a lot of work and it isn't always a single person doing the writing. It's band cooperation and the reaking talent from every member. For example even in Chris Cornell's solo work, every piece was worked on my additional musicians and instrumentalists, considering Cornell wasn't a arrogant dude, their inputs were considered and they paid off. It's a pretty clouded judgement to say 'so and so' was gifted and it came easy to them. It's the solace that they find in music aswell as the dedication in their music. Singers become better singers, guitarists become better guitarists, bass players become better bass players and songwriters become better songwriters. Even artists like Dave Grohl continue to downplay their abilities and musical understanding but the truth is he has and like many other musicians who do so, great musicial ability and understanding.

[@snail415]

@@bigdawg6308 Well damn. I’m just glad there wasn’t two things you disagreed-with. Paragraph much? Just for you, I’ll clarify that legendary artists, songwriters, composers (or the other variables I didn’t clarify for you) didn’t magically crap-out music. IT IS A GIVEN the elite musician works. That’s what makes them elite. IT IS NOT A GIVEN that they can tap-into a special place to take it further. That is what makes them legendary. If you need just one example, I offer Devin Townsend. Not responding again.

[@bigdawg6308]

@snail415 There's no point responding with such ignorance anyway. No musician magically puts together a piece of art. I suggest listening to demos of your favourite artists, then find info about producer input.

[@jimmorone1631]

Possibly the best musician interview I've seen (the full version too)

[@chickenmonger123]

I get it. Billy is… Billy. I like his music. It’s good. His process makes sense to me. I draw and paint occasionally. It’s pretty clear what he’s doing from that perspective. He starts putting stuff together, and he realizes as he does what he wants it to become. And that’s a dialogue mostly internally, but also with the medium itself. And sometimes in play with others.

[@markb7340]

Was a pumpkins fan when they dropped the 1st album way back when, then moved on. I really like some of Billy's latest interviews, especially this one where he breaks down the emotional side of songwriting on the guitar and what feels right vs what sounds right.

[@ericluchon5401]

I have absolutely loved SP for decades now, and hearing Billy discuss his song writing process just floored me. Love this video.

[@Apollocreed2076]

This interview was great. Hearing the artist explaining the creative process was beautiful.

[@Pinko_Band]

I think what he’s trying to describe @ 5:45 is the musical instinct of a natural contrarian. There’s a part of the chord progression that you can identify as a natural/universal resolution, but there’s a part of you that wants to cut against the grain of that and provide something that is more unique and interesting to the ear-catching the listener off guard, in a way, to how their ears and brain are naturally anticipating the progression to go. It’s obviously a good instinct to have.

[@squirtlesquad28]

i don’t think it’s that simple. he openly admits to ripping the beatles which is certainly not musical contrarianism: everyone loves the beatles. he’s just speaking more generally about the personal voice in his head. sometimes you do want the harmony to lead naturally in a song. just depends…

[@mysticalunicornrecords]

You hit the nail on the head. To me, Mellon Collie represents the breakdown or dissolution of traditional art, culture, morality, forms etc. But unlike most post-modern scribblings or abstract shapes, it features those very forms. It’s like a Picasso sketch painted by DaVinci. It has this tongue-in-cheek perversion of a children’s fairytale aesthetic, which is blasphemous but endearing and relatable all at once. It’s how you can have songs like Ode To No One and Beautiful on the same record. So few artists paint with every color on the palette. The ones that do are contrarians and iconoclasts… perhaps not always, but at least in the sense that they can and will zig no matter how much people want them to zag. They are doing their own thing. That’s what Rock n Roll is to me.

[@Inabeshidare]

I grew up listening to the pumpkins and collecting every album and spending hours listening to albums on repeat. They will forever be my favorite band. Are they perfect? No one is, but the emotion they projected out of my little boom box speakers will ever leave my body.

[@andyianniello]

Rick, I find myself rewatching your interviews and always discovering something new each time. Another fabulous interview. Late 80s into early 90s I was in an original band playing Bos/Prov clubs. Cut vinyl when everybody was migrating to CDs. My lead singer/song writer was infatuated with Billy. His brilliance etc.... I didn't really understand at the time. Now I do. ....I was the drummer, lol Having said that, at age 63 and still drumming, I wink and nod to all the greats whenever I'm out there, and, only when appropriate. 😉

[@TonyMouawad]

I love this so much! Rick sharing this intimate moment of how Billy song writes. Billy's insight is sooooo compelling. I want more!

[@Daneiladams555]

Billy has a great mind He’s super wise and articulate I’m actually not a fan of his music but I’m a fan of him

[@aaronlewis7182]

It’s funny how music moves through us. I will say I’m not a big fan of Smashing Pumpkins, nor his voice, yet I listened to this interview and was moved by his honesty and his description of his process! So much to take in and learn. Respect earned. This is a great interview!

[@jordan-xe2yb]

Yea babay

[@simtaur714]

@@felina7849 Muzzle. Here it's the raw acoustic, so it'll sound different on the recording.

[@user-cw1zb5fe7i]

Rick B is blessed! Gets one -to -one front of the front row concerts from these amazing people.

[@princesspeach258]

This is an awesome interview! It’s so cool to hear Billy talk about how he writes. He writes amazing songs and has such an iconic, unique voice. Smashing Pumpkins is one of my favorite bands of all time!!!!!!

[@Lovell93]

Billy is a legend. I don't care what the haters say. He's a smart dude and a great songwriter.

[@GCKelloch]

I don't get why people hate him. Granted his voice is like nails on a chalkboard, but I love his music and his oh so Hendrixy guitar playing

[@rolex3560]

He used to be really arrogant. I saw him up close at the 1994 Lollapalooza. The Beastie Boys started talking &%$# about "The Smashing Pumpkins," I forget which one said it, but he said it the most sarcastic way and into the microphone as they walked off the stage before SM came onstage.

[@Bloodyshinta1]

@@rolex3560 your little story makes the beasty boys look arrogant not the pumpkins lmfao

[@Sugar_K]

@@Bloodyshinta1in 1994 the BB were super arrogant.. they got famous behaving like little shit heads then went on to apologise about it later.. frankly no one would know who they were if it wasn't for their shit behaviour

[@rolex3560]

OK.@@Bloodyshinta1

[@johne.1011]

Great interview and very helpful to me to in understand song writing more. Billy sounds very intelligent and thoughtful...easy to see why he is so successful.

[@chrislivingstone1843]

I’ve never seen a better interview of a musician, and this was the best part.

[@monikitand]

I love Billy billying, that he is being the great communicator he is, either through words or music. I could listen to him for hours and not getting enough of his wisdom.❤

[@sitindogmas]

Billy is one of the reasons I've told my kids that magic is real. they are in their 20s now and still get it 😊

[@scoutwithoutclout]

Billy seems like he's gotten a lot nicer over the years. All the grunge guys died and he's thriving, still playing. Seems cooler, kinder in interviews too.

[@jackstraw522]

A lot of people mellow as they age, especially musicians

[@threeofeight197]

@@jackstraw522especially everyone I think. We’re all full of angst when we become adults and see the world and think our way of coping is the best way. Later ya learn. Eh. I guess whatever way that gets you there works. Lol. But you need that fire to really get going without being distracted.

[@jackstraw522]

@@threeofeight197 on the other hand a lot of people get very frightened as they get older

[@threeofeight197]

@@jackstraw522 lol. Maybe you’re right. The ppl who start off mellow become frightened. And the ppl who start out freaked out mellow. Hmmmmm. So maybe one day I will be mellow then. ;)

[@soakedbearrd]

I’m not a huge fan of smashing pumpkins but I like them, and I’ve always gotten the impression that Billy was being Billy, unapologetically. Many people put on masks, and act nice, but I’ve always respected artists that speak from the hip, not to be rude or edgy but because they are secure in themselves, regardless if they lose or gain fans.

[@mccalltrader]

I’ve never been more a fan of Billy Corgan than now What an outstanding interview

[@user-zd7ps7do8k]

Absolute gold. I love these interviews ❤

[@dave23024]

Props to Billy Corgan. My therapists couldn't even tell me that, despite all the rage, I'm still just a rat in a cage.

[@therapyoutsidethebox5466]

I might have told you that 😎

[@terrariumelio974]

Art is about evoking emotion.Billy’s music does that brilliantly.

[@lorenzomusso91eidolon]

I do agree, 100% ... And btw, I think that Rick's interviews with Billy are the best around. Lots to hear, to learn. Not only about Billy's vision and knowledge, but about him too. Perfect.

[@michaelscerbo35]

Love that Billy mentions the “3 out of 10” concept. There are many songs no one gives a shit about that are really well thought out tunes. I think the desire for more and more in our culture has proven the concept of an album and a release of a musical collection of songs to be fleeting

[@SpitfireRoad]

That vocal sounds like Mr. Hankey's grandpa.

[@mustangdanny97]

Lol.yes!! I thought he sounded like shit too!!! I love sp,and billy Corgan,but what the hell is this?? Lol.

[@Tyrannosaurus_STFU_III]

😂

[@vu4ea]

I'm dead 😂😂

[@Alicedoesart]

You bad boy 😂

[@joshuafriesen4436]

Who happens to be Herbert the Pervert from family guy

[@SupermanNew52]

The Smashing Pumpkins have been my favorite band since 1993 when I was eleven years old. The albums Gish, Siamese Dream, Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, Adore, and Machina are must listen albums. There are great songs here and there in their stuff after Machina(and Machina 2), but they didn't have one single bad song in my opinion from 1988-2000. Billy's solo stuff and the other band he made, Zwan, are really good too. He's a personal hero of mine and I'm so glad he's still alive and making music. Rick Beato is now another, you're the man Rick.

[@TheDentist27]

They hit me too with Siamese Dream when I was 12. Something about their music just captured the transition out of childhood perfectly.

[@precisionsoundworksstudio]

Hear, hear!

[@gagelindell271]

They suck lol

[@FREESPIRITSTHEBAND]

agree with everything you said man, there are not many rock bands with such a stellar discography like SP's, some flawless records there they and even managed to make a near-perfect double album which is almost an impossible task.

[@gagelindell271]

@@FREESPIRITSTHEBAND lol man im so glad my level of expectation of “rock” is higher….SP’s are BOOOOORRRRRIIIIIINNNNGGGG!

[@nightly522]

Great commentary from Billy on songwriting. Thank you for posting this video!

[@re2971]

This is an inspiration for all of us. Thank you for this interview. Truly a gift.

[@mr_unsane]

Just seen the Pumpkins a couple weeks ago, Ive seen them several times, and honestly this was the best Ive ever seen them. I also want to say this was one of the best live shows I have seen in a LONG LONG LONNNNG TIME!

[@DaveyMulholland]

Ooh! With Chamberlain?

[@SupermanNew52]

@@DaveyMulholland Yes.

[@I-0-0-I]

What a great segment, especially around 6:14. That's solid talk... "Is this the movie that I'm trying to make.." YES! That's the internal monologue stuff. Good job getting at it, both of you guys. Kudos.

[@brandonedge1979]

Love when he sings soft like this. Machina acoustic demos is great example of that. Really beautiful

[@bassmaster1953]

I brought my 30-something sons to Rick Beato at the Variety Playhouse in Atlanta. Had a great time.

[@fendermcmarshall]

Tonight Tonight is a timeless masterpiece

[@djjukeboxhero6491]

That's my least favorite pumpkins song.

[@ericdravenX00X]

Rick what a great interview. Billy is such Phenomenal songwriter and musician..

[@tiediegymnasts920]

Those songs remind of beautiful times

[@mikeyj.philly]

Its always entertaining for me to watch other songwriters struggle to bridge competing modes of the logos like Billy does in this interview. Its clear he prefers one mode of expression and feels more at home there than with the other. That, to me, is the definition of a songwriter.

[@jeremyjohnson7203]

Billy the insight you just gave will be used. Thank you very much

[@blackieblack]

8:20 - to me, is the core of what he's talking about.

[@juanbru_]

I'm speechless... loved the interview. Really inspiring

[@jt.8144]

Looking at Billy Corgan just reminded me of how OLD I have become. But hey, Great times back then for sure.. when Smashing Pumpkins came into the scene! Life was great growing up back then

[@gustopherus]

Billy has been my favorite songwriter since I was just starting on guitar back in the 90's. He uses the chords that touch my soul.

[@TheMeJustMe75]

I was a full on Metal Head but when Siamese Dream came out I couldn't stop listening to the album. At that point I had been playing guitar for about 5 years and I wanted to write more complex sounding guitar parts than just power chords. I think the Progressive Metal of 2023 has really taken what the Smashing Pumpkins did and took it to a higher level.

[@godloveszaza]

Metal heads with diverse music taste are always the best and most kindest people you'll run into.

[@phillipgetsit3408]

You rock

[@Xplora213]

Pumpkins has a heavy sensibility but very very very folksy vibes as you can hear here. Billy Corgan is a fusion act just like Opeth. Folk music that a metal head can enjoy.

[@LukeHuchMusic]

Lots more sing writing discussions with Billy please!

[@jakeah1175]

Such superb interviewing skills - ends up drawing Billy into digging deep for incredible answers

[@Charlie-Oooooo]

What a fantastic conversation about the process! And between 2 very articulate artists! 👍❤️

[@foto21]

This song reminds me a lot of the Everly Brothers. Corgan had a bit of a connection back to 50s rock n roll.

[@rightaboutnao]

I guess James Iha is a huge fan of them

[@JustinBorden]

This is a pretty awesome clip!! Great interview as always!! :D

[@joewehlage6832]

A raw catalyst for emotion. It’s not about billy, but about billy simply being.

[@WE_R_DNA]

Love the questions Rick asks. It's like every musical nerd who is intrigued by the process of a genius and needs to know how. Great job.

[@stephenmetcalf3172]

I have to say the Rick is genuinely good at interviewing these artists. I also think he is getting better.

[@SpitfireRoad]

Agreed. Rick could eclipse David Cavette's incredible legacy.

[@gillianomotoso328]

@@SpitfireRoadyou mean Dick Cavett :)

[@spoonerson1103]

I relate so much to what you are saying- innocence is bliss

[@rayherman9713]

Thank you! Finally someone asking completely different questions!!! I'm sure the artists appreciate it as well!!! Fantastic!

[@bveracka]

That bit of _Muzzle_ he played is as good as the original recording, making it clear that he's still got it. He has a flair for writing catchy and cathartic melodies - undoubtedly cementing him among the nineties' greatest songwriters. I liked this video so much I've watched it three times, and played back the 0:23 to 1:16. Controversial though his opinions of his peers are, it's hard not to like him for writing so many good songs. Also, I'm interested to hear how you [Rick] ended up in a studio with him. You must've been stoked to get to hear him play and talk a while. 👍

[@mercster]

Billy Corgan is a treasure. 👍

[@brandonedge1979]

Yep, and SP are still great live.

[@vicktorv]

Billy accompanied me in my moments of depression and uncertainty, that's why he is part of my family.

[@thebluntandonly]

When it comes to music being explained in emotions I always like how Jeremy Soule explains it

[@HarlanHarvey76]

This guy literally wrote the soundtrack to my 18yo life...😢 I'm almost 50 now

[@mr_unsane]

Judging by your screen name I have 2 years on you, but for sure I know exactly what you mean !!!

[@Joao-id4dn]

half a century!!!!!!

[@nickswettenham1877]

Billy Corgan is a legend. Been in one of the biggest bands in the world and now owns his own wrestling company. If I could live someone else’s life, it would be his ❤️💪🏼

[@oceancrosby4578]

Dang Nick, that's quite a complement. I'm just learning about "The Great Pumpkin", I loved the interview. The song writing stuff is fascinating, and his offer of scholarships coming out of high school but took his chances on his own road. Lots to admire.

[@Handles_are_garbage]

He's raw-dogging the NWA into oblivion because of his ego.

[@ShaunaMarieSings]

Awesome conversation...thank you! 💗💗💗

[@MarcioNovelli]

I would absolutely love to write with Billy. It’s all about the emotion. 🥺

[@piper888]

Billy can afford any guitar he wants but he's playing a Yamaha.. that says a lot for that brand. best guitar for the money. You don't have to spend a lot if you can play

[@---wd3hp]

Wrong. It is a good guitar for the money. No need to waste money on a good guitar if you can't play or have no interest or talent to take the instrument seriously. Spend enough to not physically be injured or disuaded from learning on a piece of crap. To that end, Yamaha puts out a reputable product accross the board. To your overall point- yes you can get a better sound on a crappy instrument if you can play versus not, but it's not what you want. Given the limits of this guy's technical ability and sound consciousness, the low end suits him.

[@piper888]

@@---wd3hp so you're saying Billy's not a good guitarist?

[@---wd3hp]

@@piper888 relative to what? Playing around the campfire? Rick is a BRILLIANT GUY- providing an incredible public service. He has encyclopedic knowledge of guitarists and yet panders to this guy. I do not doubt that he likes his songs. He can change my mind on alot if it has his seal of approval. This has me flummoxed. I had a college professor who told us to compose a song of one instrument and two notes. She proceeded to over-intellectualize my composition. I interpolated this and that. Nonsense. I see Rick who knows better, disecting this guy's pedestrian at best composition. I hear Corgan displaying the knowledge of Jobim and Bachrach and yet I do not even see a hint of an ear to even hear an homage to those geniuses. He also takes a loose shot at the Beatle's originality. Would love to hear him expound on that. Rick Beato knows all too well how difficult mastering the guitar is, to annoint this guy as a skilled anything. Watch his interview of Matteo Mancuso, a generational talent. Allow for the fact that one does not have to be a technical master of the instrument to be a genius composer. Bachrach and Jobim were two great examples. They also never purported to be instrumental masters. Rock and roll farts with uneducated fanbases have no problem taking credit they do not merit. If you watch the Mancuso interview side by side with Corgan, one is obviously a musical genius instrumentally and compositionally. The other, really does not really need anything more than beginners guitar skills to do what he does. The guitar is little more than a prop. His melodic and harmonic concepts are lost on me. I can't distinguish it from three blind mice nursery rhymes. Bores the crap out of me. Don't get me started on Bruce Springstein..... To your original point- You were correct about the brand but not about the player's discernible skill level placing demands on the instrument's attributes. I went back and heard other examples of his work on better instruments and was not persuaded otherwise.

[@johnnyxmusic]

As a sketchy, if prolific and pre-successful songwriter, I’ll say that you start with something can you try to put it together in a certain way because maybe it’s about some thing what do you think it’s about some thing… But somewhere in the middle of a process the song starts talking back to you and telling you what it needs and what it wants to be. And you are the first witness. and you work in service of the song.

[@sylvandelacruz]

Great segment, I loved hearing his thoughts and insight.

[@MrShaggyC]

Great part of the interview. Just great!

[@uneedtherapy42]

It can’t be easy to demand that much from yourself and the songs you write but I’ll go as far as saying this is why the 90s were the last great musical decade.

[@alexmalch]

Ty Segall wants to have a word with you