Biological Age: Optimal On A Carnivore Diet?

[@jamestenanty]

Super interesting stuff. Would love to see a video on some of the specifics of your diet, supplementation and exercise regime (+ anything else you feel significantly contributes to your having such a young biological age)!

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Thanks James. I post my daily diet on Patreon, there's a workout video on this channel, and I cover supplements and the average diet composition that corresponds to each blood test in videos following testing. For example, supplements and diet composition will be in this weekend's video, but that also exists for Test #5 in '22.

[@gmc202]

Now Paul Saladino is eating fruits and honey. He said he is better now....interesting fact

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

I saw that...While "feel" is important for any health-related approach, I'd like to see blood biomarkers after those changes...

[@luckyhanger1326]

Great work! Loving your channel!

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Thanks Lucky Hanger 13!

[@liveto100club6]

Great information! You supplied terrific resource material in which we can review our labs as well.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Thanks Pamela!

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

@Abdel-Ilah BENAHMED Yes, the Excel file to calculate biological age is embedded in this link from my website: michaellustgarten.com/2019/09/09/quantifying-biological-age/

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

@Abdel-Ilah BENAHMED That's weird, most people just download the Excel file without any issues. Did you use the link in this post? michaellustgarten.com/2019/09/09/quantifying-biological-age/

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

@Abdel-Ilah BENAHMED I'm glad to gear that you got it to work! I checked the Excel file on my end, and read-only is not checked. Which website?

[@leonniceday6807]

Thank you. This seems an important research piece. It might motivate me to start blood testing myself.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Without one's own objective data, how would they know if the intervention is working (or not)? Feel is not objective, and for many people, feel works until it doesn't (i.e. the onset of chest pain without symptoms for years).

[@leonniceday6807]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 I agree. I've been delaying such tests because of hasle, time will take, especially to research what to test. The way I see that testing can help me, is first of all diagnosis. If my bio-age turns out to be bad (the thought of which, frankly, scares me a bit, after having taken care of my health, my whole life, more than average people) , I will know which particular biomarkers are the culprits. Then I will do research to see how to improve them. Then intervene, and after a while test again, as you say, to see if worked. If not, research again and repeat...

[@Pluvo2for1]

The biological test used here may be a lot more practical, and way cheaper, than epigenetic tests.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Ha, not may, but definitely! These biomarkers have been studied for 50-100y+, depending on the biomarker, so they're well studied. Epigenetic clocks are still being sorted out in terms of which aspects of aging that they actually measure-have you seen this video? kzbin.info/www/bejne/n3_Rp3lnes1qjKc Also, these biomarkers cost < $80 USD, in comparison to epigenetic tests at ~$300 (or more). Don't get me wrong-eventually I'll add epigenetic testing to my approach, in addition to the clinical biomarkers.

[@Pluvo2for1]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 thank you. Just had a look at that video. I see there is a lot more to these tests than I thought. I'm new to your channel but really enjoying this fresh perspective. I might just look into those bio marker tests, so thank you for posting 😎

[@yizhou8383]

I would love to see some 20-year-old carnivores' albumins and see if those numbers are also high. The graph in the video is probably the statistics of SAD eaters so it may not apply on carnivores. For example, if you put Saladino's LDL number (>500mg/dL) in any chart, you might think he's dying.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

The albumin data is based on 1+ million subjects, so there would need to be an equivalent amount of subjects eating a carnivore diet to see somewhat similar data. Also, what's Paul highest albumin level, carnivore diet or not? If it's 5, which I expect, then his 4.1 is definitely far from optimal.

[@papadavewatson]

High total cholesterol doesn't mean a thing. Mine is over 400. Read any modern, up to date medical journal, and you will find out how lazy and un-read most of today's docs are. THE number one indicator of your health is your A1C. If you are not insulin resistant, you are in better shape than 75 percent of America.

[@espinosalexis]

​@@conqueragingordietrying123 yozhou point is right. From where are these millions+ subjects taken from? If they are USA citizens then human-health data is skewed as 95% of us population is sick because of eating and lifestyle patterns, so not a very good control group to measure age-related changes of biomarkers.

[@lechsiz1642]

I may take you up on that. Need to get blood work done first. I've been vegan for about 3 years, but haven't eaten fowl or mammals (did eat dairy, eggs, and seafood, though) for 30 years before that. I'd be interested in your opinion. I think pescetarian without dairy is probably healthiest of all diets.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Right now, I eat fish and dairy daily, and my BA is ~11y younger than my chronological. It's all about the biomarker data, and it's up to each person to find what works best for them, rather than a blind adherence to dietary ideology..

[@Pluvo2for1]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 after seeing vegans and carnivores duke it out, I really love your refreshing approach.

[@LPD15ponce]

In your book, "Microbial Burden", you discuss how methionine restriction is more optimal for increased lifespan, vis~a~vis increased expression of the intestinal epithelial cell tight junction protein claudin-3. Given that one of the ravages of aging is sarcopenia, which requires a compensatory increase in protein consumption, this seems like a conflicting dilemma (damned if you do, damned if you don't). Can you recommend an efficacious compromise for both? Would supplementing with EAA's be suitable, for example? Thanks!

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

I agree, it is a dilemma! Personally, I eat 115-130g of protein/day, which is not a methione-restricted diet. With lower protein intakes, I'd risk having less muscle mass, which is important for functional lifespan. Also, a higher protein intake is correlated with lower homocysteine (for me), so that's another reason why my protein intake higher than it probably should be. Last, I use blood testing to monitor my protein intake with measurement of BUN: kzbin.info/www/bejne/q2eYZYyKqsd5iK8

[@espinosalexis]

Dear Michael, it would be nice if you could elaborate more on how do you think Saladino's diet is affecting each biomarker and how an addition/change of something may move the needle in the right direction for that biomarker. Cool video! Thanks. By the way, Saladino have just posted a video claming age reversal by carnivore. But he did not show his numbers! 😂

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

That's tough to say without quantifiable diet data that links with each blood test-thats how I'm able to calculate correlations. I'll check out his channel for his most recent data!

[@espinosalexis]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 There's nothing in his recent video, but I remember about 4 months ago to listen to a video where he was indeed talking about lots of his measures. He likes a lot fasting insulin as the king of measures.

[@ok373737]

Super interesting Dr! Can you maybe share the link of Paul Saladino's full blood test results?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Hi Obi z, it's based on these data: heartandsoil.co/joe-rogan-experience-notes/

[@ok373737]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 Wow! Such a bad blood test, while on the suface he looks muscular and super healthy. Looks can be deciving.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

@@ok373737 I wouldn't say bad, but as you mentioned, based on his leanness, there's a greater expectation for his bloods.

[@PaulBeauchemin]

Nice analysis

[@tylero9568]

Great breakdown! Do you mind sharing some of the staples of your diet? Not just the macros but the actual foods? Thanks

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Thanks Tyler. The latest diet update that I published was about a year ago: michaellustgarten.com/2019/11/10/12-16-years-younger-than-my-chronological-age-whats-my-diet/ My diet is relatively similar to that now, with more yogurt (~230g/d), more broccoli (~400g/d), less chickpeas (0g), but otherwise is mostly similar. I'll likely make a 2020 diet video that corresponds to my average 2020 biological age in early January, 2021.

[@l.lalala3455]

Lymphozyts are parts of the white blood cells. So do I understand correctly, that its good to have low total white blood cell counts, but relatively high lymphocytes, so you can just tell it by a ratio not a total count right?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Both measures are informative, including total #s of WBCs, and independently, levels of neutrophils, lymphocytes, and monocytes. For ex., see this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fJSclamNi813ntE

[@ladagspa2008]

If you include Paul's 533 LDL ( in a calculator that incorporates Lipids), paul's age would be higher than chr age by 10 years?

[@newdata]

seems like there are a few phase change in age... so maybe using different biomarker for each phase could be more useful

[@larsnystrom6698]

Higher biological age is accociated with increased mortality. But is that a stronger correlation than with cronological age? Is it possible to tease out a significant difference? Higher cronological age ===> higher biological age ===> higher mortality. I not so surprised about this relationship!

[@monnoo8221]

Interesting... But using the predicted variable as a confounder is kind of stupid. Note that using ONLY age yields r=1, adding any other variable decreases it a bit, and it is NOT possible to distinguish the relative value of the added by the decrease of the r when adding it... medical research...tz tz tz The parameters do not get worse BECAUSE of aging per se, ie the passing of time, but because some systems are not working properly any more

[@espinosalexis]

Dear Michael, why the age calculator does not take into account any Cardio Vascular and/or Lipid biomarker? I'm not surprised not seeing LDL there, as it really tells nothing about Vascular health. But isn't there any good marker that can tell us about heart and arteries health? Nitric Oxide maybe? Or something? Probably too difficult, so some other measures should be taken into account that can really evaluate arteries health beyond Heart Rate Variability, Heart resting pulse, blood pressure. I don't know, but I guess more functional tests of heart, arteries and other organs should be included.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Levine's test let the stats decide the best biomarker model that could predict chronological age-lipids probably didn't make the model better, relative to what was selected by the stats. BP for vascular health, I track it, I'd recommend others track it, too

[@espinosalexis]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 Thanks a lot!

[@peterz53]

Steve Horvath's epigenetic clock data showed strong correlations with carotenoids (more is better) and CRP (lower is better). Paul's CRP was not that impressive. And we know he can't be taking on much in the way of carotenoids.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Higher carotenoids, including b-carotene is correlated with higher albumin for me, so that should be an easy fix, too.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

@Abdel-Ilah BENAHMED Whether carrots would do the trick, as it may for me, is unknown, but I'd say that's a good start.

[@NomenNominandum]

Given that your phenotypic age varies about 6 years within just one year, I think it is pointless the compare it to one single value of the carnivore diet and draw any conclusions.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

There is some truth to that, as I raised that issue on the first slide, but I wouldn’t say that it’s pointless, as even at my worst, I’m 8 years younger than my chronological age. Paul at his potential worst is 3y younger, so he has room for improvement.

[@NomenNominandum]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 I agree, I guess I was a bit too provocative.

[@surfreadjumpsleep]

Great video. I'm amazed by my numbers. Thank you for the boost of confidence. In the beginning of the video you show a chart of age & biological age together & by the looks of it, a 10 year difference is about the most that is possible. Or am I reading that chart wrong? So we are eating right, sleeping right, exercising right, supplementing right. So what is left to do? For me I'm going to maybe start fasting a few days a month. I should add some weight lifting to the cardio I suppose. Maybe I'll start donating blood more frequently. Not sure if there is data on that but there was a recent paper on cognitive benefit from blood dilution. Not sure if 1 pint cuts it there though. Maybe they'll let me give 2. :) Going to get a cardio MRI to look for calcification. (don't want the radiation from the CT version) And maybe start a statin if there is evidence. Is NR something to try? You and I are the same age. Curious if you are supplementing NR as well.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

~20 year difference is theoretically possible for the difference between BA with CA. I'm not supplementing with NR-I often eat raw parsley in my smoothies. I have a few videos about boosting NAD through diet and other techniques: kzbin.info/www/bejne/a16ViqJ9mNmWec0 kzbin.info/www/bejne/ppuQdIaJnM13jtE

[@tonipieleanu]

Have you checked this kind of approach on a keto diet? Re Saladino, his CRP is huge, maybe he had a flu or something else?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

I haven't, but my biological age data is pretty good based on my current diet/approach. For ex., see kzbin.info/www/bejne/i2HRhad6oqiqibM

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

If I remember correctly, Saladino claimed that his CRP was moderately high because he exercised the day before. But then he posted another, lower CRP, but without the rest of the data to calculate biological age. Also, 1.7 mg/L is elevated relative to the all-cause mortality data showing that < ~0.3 may be optimal, but even higher values are found in older adults, so I wouldn't call his data huge. But yeah, based on his body comp., 1.7 is relatively higher than it should be.

[@tonipieleanu]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 yeah, I've replied before listening to you comments in the video, thanks for reiterating. Nice channel btw, lots of great info and explanations.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Thanks @@tonipieleanu!

[@larastueben9458]

What is your diet like?

[@wanderingdoc5075]

Is it speculation or is there some science behind it? (edited below)

[@wanderingdoc5075]

Nevermind, you explained it. Does the standard CBC and CMP give me all those data? I am an M.D. so I often run labs on myself. Any special tests I need?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

I wouldn't have anything on my page without science. Here's the publication: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5940111/

[@Battery-kf4vu]

I don't understand why you say at 24:50 that those who had WBC

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Compared with WBCs between 3500-6000 cells/microliter, the < 3500 group lived shorter, that's what I meant.

[@Battery-kf4vu]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 Why does the curve end at 22 years? Bizarre...

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

@@Battery-kf4vu Because they lived shorter than the other WBC groups

[@Battery-kf4vu]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 How did they live shorter than the group 6000-10000 and the group>10000, given that these 2 other curves are under it? At 22 years there's about 70% still alive in the 10000.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Ah, I gotcha now, sorry about the confusion. From that paper (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2646088/), "In participants with white blood cell (WBC) count ≤3,500/mm3, the predicted survival was extrapolated up to 20 years of follow-up, because of the absence of events after 20 years." and, "Although we need to use caution in interpreting the higher mortality observed in participants with WBC

[@victoriaolson8985]

When baseline values are established by studying people on a (presumed) standard Western diet, what is the justification for evaluating the health of a carnivore dieter against such standards?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

It's all about biochemical mechanisms related to disease risk and longevity. For ex., saying that albumin can only be as high as 4.5 on a carnivore diet doesn't mean that's the maximum that one can achieve, especially considering that higher values can be accomplished by adding other foods into the diet. With the exception of a few locations in the world, eating only meat indefinitely is not evolutionarily accurate. For most of primate evolution, we ate meat and plants. Therefore, it's not surprising that one's biochemistry isn't optimal by eating only meat.

[@victoriaolson8985]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 So, you had a bias going in, use ‘conventional’ standards when evaluating carnivore dieters, even to the point of suggesting they should come up to those dietary standards. That’s pretty much unusable data.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

@@victoriaolson8985 It's faulty logic to say that there are no large epi studies for carnivore dieters, and therefore, applying this metric is useless. That data in carnivore dieters doesn't exist, so how will you assess health?

[@ninawildr4207]

@@victoriaolson8985 agreed

[@ninawildr4207]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 you cant ...thats her point...its useless

[@mikw2026]

What diet do you follow?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

As I mentioned in the video (or in other videos), the diet that best optimizes my circulating biomarkers. We evolved eating high protein-high fiber (100g/day), so that's my basic approach.

[@mikw2026]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 okay thank you. Do you think you could do more videos on comparisons to carnivores verses your blood work. This video is very informative thank you

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

@@mikw2026 Sure-got an any video ideas?

[@mikw2026]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 Yes I would love to see you take down some of the main carnivore diet pushers using blood work similar to what you did in this video with Sean bakers. So really anyone carnivore : mikhaila peterson, frank tufano, nutrition with Judy, Paul Saladino. I don’t know if all of them have released their blood work but I’m sure there’s a lot out there. Really just any videos debunking carnivore would be great. I don’t know what your stance on Weston A prices diet so also that is another interesting topic/study. Thanks again, I am enjoying your videos I really like that you have so much science to back up what you say. I am just now leaving carnivore ( if you can’t tell haha) and there’s still a lot I am trying to figure out with animal based diets verses plant based because there is just so much conflicting information out here.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

@@mikw2026 Ha, this was Paul Saladino's data, not Baker's. I'm not trying to take anyone down, only trying to show that blind dietary ideology is likely not optimal, and more careful monitoring of blood biomarkers can help figure that out.

[@papadavewatson]

LOL!!! You cant throw a bunch of numbers up and tell us how well or young a man is internally or externally. He was 43 and surfing every morning at 6AM!!!!! Are you doing that! Are many 25 year olds doing that? All I can tell you, is that 7 months ago, I went to the doctor with a glucose level of 278. I was diagnosed type 2 diabetic and weighed 265 lbs. I immediately went on Keto, and in three days, glucose down to 85. A week later, down to 80. Never even took medication, and never will. Today, Im at 190 lbs and strong as a bull. I dont know many 30 year olds who can physically keep up with me. I will be 58 in October. Im in better shape than I was at 25. Those numbers are not the true benchmark.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Congratulations on your fitness transformation david watson, but I didn't just throw upa bunch of numbers. That biological age test was peer-reviewed and published, and was derived in studies of ~10,000 people. I'm not anti-carnivore diet, don't get me wrong, but imo there should be an emphasis on internal biomarkers of health, too.