Nissan e-NV200 40 kWh with rapidgate

During Fortum's Ladetour 2018, I drove the new Nissan e-NV200 40 kWh. It turns out that it is also affected by rapidgate. It's not as bad as Leaf. But you still get about 25 kW fast charging speed at the lowest.
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[@perpyro]

Thank you Bjørn. Now i know what to expect when i get my E-NV200. Im not planning on driving long distances but more like driving locally but might allso do som longer trips in the summer as i actually can do longer trips.

[@TeslaModel3Adventures]

Rapidgate race sounds like a fun video in the making 😁😁

[@TommyboyGTP]

Yes I want to see that hahahahaha

[@ElectricMikeEV]

Definitely do a race we like those!

[@kjartanbergtorsson5664]

My 2009 i-miev activates ac to blast the battery with cold air when needed. Almost 10 years old but still higher tech then latest Nissan🤔

[@krugerdave]

Sheeeet, Bjorn, you're getting close to 100000 subs! Silver play button soon! Anything special planned for the milestone?

[@bjornnyland]

I will live stream it.

[@josemdbl4957]

Definitely a good one. Rapidgate fight!! I'll be right there watching

[@PongPongDudlDu]

Hey Björn! Many thanks for the great video! I had been looking forward for a new video about the ENV200 with the 40 kwh battery pack! Too bad its not able to charge as quickly as the 24 kwh battery was. If you have the time, I would be very interested in a video about your consumptions at the different speeds and how much time you spent during the different parts of your journey. All the best! Fabian

[@ramblerandy2397]

Hehe, thank you Uncle Bjorn. 😁

[@SylverWWA]

"Our advantage is that we have decades of engineering experience." - Nissan's statement during the Leaf 2018 reveal show. Yeah, riiiight...

[@nextmovevideos]

Well - they could have done much better. Nevertheless it is the most sold EV in the world as we speak :-)

[@SylverWWA]

Probably it is a professional harm, but I am very picky on the tech side of EVs. And since this is not the first generation they have developed, this is a very poor achievement from Nissan. Just because it sells more, does not mean that the quality of the product is good. Speaking of which, I can see from the first generation of Nissan Leafs why the "range anxiety" and "battery replacement in five years" came to be: all because Nissan Leaf, gave the impression that the dashboard can't predict how far you can go and that the battery degradation of the Leaf is somewhat cumbersome.

[@TeslaModel3Adventures]

Thanks for the video Bjorn. Looks like we'll have to drive like a pensioner to avoid the over heating and charging throttling. Not ideal. I have thrashed it before at 70mph and rapid charged at 30+kWh still. Only on recent 258 mile journey we experienced the rapidgate. Took 10 hrs getting home. The car was left at the airport for three weeks at 13%, so from what you're saying it was a double whammy for us. Thanks for the detailed video. All the best.

[@bjornnyland]

Charging speed is measured in kW, not kWh.

[@TeslaModel3Adventures]

@@bjornnyland Thanks for the correction Bjorn.... our first EV 😁

[@ianmathieson65]

e-NV200 Adventures & Bjorn: kW is a measure of power not speed.

[@fancyIOP]

@@TeslaModel3Adventures it looks like Nissan is full of bad engineering.

[@TeslaModel3Adventures]

I think they're just protecting their battery packs to prevent future claims on battery warranties. Works great for them, less financial risk, but not overly convenient for the end user.

[@vesamakinen2194]

e-NV200 vs Leaf vs e-golf. Everybody is blaiming Nissan about rapidgate, but e-golf will do the same thing.

[@JohnDoe-vx3z]

e-Golf can charge with max 40kW anway. If speed drops from 40 to 30kW, it is not perceived as bad as from 50 to 30.

[@whuzzzup]

Best joke about eGolf: You have to buy the DC charge port separately (yes, really).

[@Markle2k]

The "other kids do it too" isn't an excuse that adults should accept. Besides, eGolf has compliance car engineering.

[@SyBe49]

Sorry, but "compliance car engineering" is not an excuse either, especially for a €40k car :)

[@bjron8037]

Thx for nice visiting Finland and great videos. This rapidgate havent been issue also on Mitsubishi Miev because it also have AC kompressor cooling. And kompressor power is about 3kw when Leaf have 1.5kw and maybe env200 have also 1.5kw then. So actually Miev battery coolsdown about 4 degree when fast charge over 60A. Cooling stops at 60A so its optimum to continue driving then about 70% if its enought to next Chademo. Also Miev stops Chademo at 81.2% so it wont get heated much in end part without restart charging. If battery is over 46c cooling last longer like as long as 50a in 81.2% when restart charge it takes just about 40a so cooling tooked that 10a. I have been now prepared cooling system by drive 3 last minutes with super cool to floor. Then when charge starts System change floor cooling thought floor to battery. There is just valve to automatic change it. Still even its cooled i have had rapidgate but just once this super warm summer. It was after used 135 speed limiter as Cruise between 4 chademo chargers. Lol no other cruise so liked to do that. But got rapidgate with 35kw only to 48c battery.

[@Slimylimmey]

Sheeeeeeet!!! Thanks uncle Bjorn

[@Andthorup]

This is pretty much the same result we got when we tested the car back in June, it's a shame the cooling isn't better

[@colonelcarrillo3695]

yes bjørn! do the leaf vs env200!

[@MrProooosit]

Very good to know this i have Nissan E-NV200 Evalia 24kw and think to change to a new with 40kw but now i Will not change to this with 40kw big thank's for this i have be so unhappy If I have change car.

[@jimwhitehead1532]

I hope Nissan is watching and taking notes about active cooling while driving. Tesla watched your 2013 Model S review and the Model X got a lighted makeup mirror, etc.

[@robertn915]

Sheeeeet you havehat drivers there too! In Australia our hat drivers used to drive volvo 242, as well. Now its camry and 4x4's.

[@nextmovevideos]

:-)

[@perpyro]

Nissan have done something with the active cooling since these video was made and now if the battery is slightly warm it will start active cooling even when AC charging. Have had mine now since march 2019 and driven 500km in one day as part of our summer vacation last summer. But Bjørn is right about motorway driving as driving it faster hog the range and top speed of these car is 124km/h.

[@simonplait5531]

This Camera is great!

[@luisfernandes4145]

Rapidgating sounds very interesting!

[@mannygee005]

fascinating... not just for the specific cars and brand but for in general ev use. I really barely drive and my range is pretty low but today I was having a little fun driving and now after watching this video I'm interested in checking data on the car ... I usually don't pay attention but I'll start checking the menus to see if there's any info to be gleamed from any of the screens (?) maybe I can understand the car better.

[@spiritmorin]

Yes, the Canon 80D look so great!

[@markfitzpatrick6692]

That would be cool bjorn will you get your buddy Pawel in on it? He seems like a good guy

[@MrProooosit]

Hope to see Rapidgate Race soon that be intresting.

[@CC-vw7fj]

Please can you do leaf vs env 200, what test that would make, good info for nissan drivers who want to DC and AC charge from uncle Bjorn.

[@ingerasulffs]

You make a good Yoda impression :)

[@Simon-dm8zv]

Hi Bjørn, do you know if rapidgating has been fixed by a software update from Nissan, or does this only apply to the Leaf?

[@jameshoyles4261]

One thing that can help if battery hot and limited low charge rate is as you say Bjorn dc charge with van on then 15/20 mins after cooling with fans unplug and plug back in and the BMS will read the lower battery temp and give you a faster charge rate! Opposite of the new 40 Leaf!! Did you try this Bjorn? Done 1k miles and it does work on multi rapids and or fast driving! ;0)

[@ianmathieson65]

James Hoyles: An uneconomic proposal if you’re charging using Ecotricity as found exclusively on all English motorways and on other roads too, as they charge £3 just for plugging in, then a price per kWh after that. So two plug-ins costs £6 plus the cost of the energy used.

[@jameshoyles4261]

They ecotricity stopped charging to connect over 6 months ago its just 30 pence per kw or 15 pence if you get your electric from them! Guessing you have not used the network in a Long time!!?

[@DanLMH]

I think it's pretty obvious that during rapid charging a lot of heat is going to build up. I'd have said during designing, EVs should always have active battery cooling. Maybe I'm wrong?

[@SyBe49]

For some battery chemistries with less stable components it is a must, like the ones from LG. AESC batteries technically withstand high/low temperatures without requiring an active cooling. Active cooling could be a convenience for a driver, so they are able to rapid charge multiple times. On the other hand, that makes the car more complex and adds more points of failure. Also if a car depends on active cooling, what happens if fans stop working or liquid cooling leaks?

[@TBasianeyes]

I think for a city car it is acceptable to not have active battery cooling. What we need is a test cycle that shows how many kms you can go including charging time in 10 hours at different speeds (80, 100, 120)km/h to compare the different vehicle classes. Fans stopping to work or coolant failure isn't an issue, BMS will always regulate charging speed based on battery temperature. It doesn't matter if the car has active cooling or not, it can always overheat.

[@johnnorth9355]

It would have been good to have a quick show around the car. Looks like an interesting vehicle.

[@TeslaModel3Adventures]

Bjorn has already done videos of the 40kWh e-nv200. Check out my videos if you want to see mine.

[@maximilianholland]

Another engineering design fail from Nissan! I expect some smart modders could come up with a manual over-ride to keep the cooling turned on.

[@maximilianholland]

It already has aircon. Just need to be able to keep the aircon active during driving to keep the temps not much above 30 C. The temperature gain towards 40 C when charging at 45-46 kW is somewhat inevitable with the current moderate cooling rates during charging, and would indeed be helped by more powerful cooling. But that's hard to retrofit. As Bjorn says, the easier work around would be to reduce from 40 C as quickly as possible after the charge, by allowing cooling to be active during driving stages also. That would recover close to 30 C temps before the next charge, allowing close to peak charge rates to be accessible again (and over and over indefinitely). Given that modest speeds of 90-95 kph probably require not much more than 15-20 kW to sustain, even a 1 kW parasitic cooling system running all the time would be worthwhile overall. To be reduced from 45 to 25 kW charging is more of a negative than to use 5% to 7.5% of your energy to maintain access to 45 kW charging speeds. Pity that Nissan couldn't see the simple math behind this and make the correct calculation on the design (at least as a manual option).

[@Simon-dm8zv]

max holland Excellent explanation Max

[@robertackerlind2]

hey Bjorn, I wonder how hard would it be to plumb a fan into the cooling line and have it go on when battery is above 30 degrees?

[@timryan4518]

Please do env-200 vs leaf

[@krugerdave]

Maybe get an e-Golf in there too! I'd be interested to see how it stacks up; the Leaf seems to get all the hate, but the e-Golf also rapidgates pretty hard...

[@alexandreesquenet3736]

My solar inverter is from ABB too ^^

[@user-ov8fr6jr6l]

Good day! Tell me, is there no cooling (air conditioning) of the battery itself on the 40kW battery?

[@willdatsun]

a button on the dash to turn on active cooling would be an idea

[@kasmopaya2676]

I demand an explanation from Nissan why active cooling is only on while charging and only then when the car is powered on. Nissan should give the customers the option to manually power on the cooling. That way it is turned of for max. range(like range mode) and can be turned on for max. travel speed. Will be interesting to see if the new Leaf with bigger battery(2019) will also have this cooling solution. How was this done with the old e-NV200? Was the active cooling also only on with powered on car? As i remember, the crazy trip to the north from Bjørn with the old car was very cold weather and the battery temp was also quite high. Maybe the active cooling was also not always on?

[@tobiasenlund7847]

Help me with this question please, anyone. I’m really in to getting the E-NV200 Evalia for my family but I just don’t understand the charging so far. I live in Sweden and here it seems to be mostly type 2 connectors. Does this mean I only have to find CHAdeMO chargers when traveling to charge at a decent speed?

[@negyesikrek]

Very strange. With my 24 kWh E-NV200 I have never seen such behavior. As soon as you plug in the charger, you can hear the active cooling start immediately. The only decrease in charging speed is because of the cold in the winter. Maybe a software glitch in the 40 kWh version.

[@priosminimus6969]

Er...when I connect the AC-plug with whatever source, even 1ph 10A, some pumps and fans start to hum and whirr instantly. So I would say this is an internal check of these aggregats, because they switch off after some minutes. BUT: I had it happen several times, that even with a not overheated battery because the car was going slow before and was standing for hours, something turned on and made a recognisable sound, sounded like a pump to me. With 1ph 10A. So there's most probably active cooling in low AC without turning it on. I need to check whether the pumps and fans are running when DC-charging because we have a 04/19 car now. Did not pay attention to that, we just had one fastcharge yet because it's brand new. But with a 08-16 build we had dissappointing low charging rates on a 4500km trip to Denmark and Sweden - and I cannot remember the fans turning on when recalling our charging stops!?

[@ukaszjurek3869]

hey, I have this question. ENV200 2015 24kwh regardless of the outside temperature, the fan starts up from time to time during charging 230V. Is this normal and is he always so loud? should i fix something Regards

[@Klausryan]

Do you have any update on uhmm towbars for EV. they are to some degree rather useless untill you can get that as an option

[@joseantoniovelezpariente9137]

Saludos desde españa Cuanto autonomia real tiene ?¿

[@TeslaModel3Adventures]

Your loaner too.... mine has the same issues. I have emailed the dealer for thier comments.

[@PongPongDudlDu]

Please let us know, if you get some more information!

[@TeslaModel3Adventures]

I'm not convinced I'll get any real reply, but yes of course I'll let everyone know if I get anything of use from the dealer. My Twitter is @env200adventure All the best.

[@PongPongDudlDu]

Gotya!

[@evtrekker1317]

Does it use A/C when cooling?

[@MrTeq333]

Also include 30 kWh LEAF in the race, my 2016 charges with max power to until 85% and then it slows down a bit, but it never takes longer then 30 mins to fully recharge (during summer). High temps slow it down a bit, but not as much as rapidgate. Would be interesting to see the difference on a long trip.

[@nextmovevideos]

We only have two older LEAF in the fleet and they are in long term rental. So we dont have access to the cars.

[@newscoulomb3705]

The shorter the race between the LEAF and e-NV200, the more it favors the LEAF. The longer the race, the more it favors the e-NV200. I recently observed the LEAF charging at only 12 kW average rate with under 50% battery on a 100+ degree F day.

[@hanshansen384]

My e-NV200 is 24kWh and it cools battery above 20 degrees on DC and AC 3,7kW, but also ved the grammy 2kW charger. It cools the battery with the car off. I can stop the battery cooling by turn the car on and press the Heat button. I have testet a 40kWh and it do work in the same way. Colling the battery on DC and AC with the car OFF.

[@hanshansen384]

Elbilforeningen in Denmark have also testet e-NV200 and at 2 times of 1 hour of AC with the car OFF, they also charge next time at full speed.

[@19quiz76]

Is this still an issue on new cars delivered these days?

[@SaffyMirza]

Hi Bjorn worth pointing out that the vehicle must be switched off when you first plug into a rapid charger, then switch on when when the charger gets going otherwise you will have issues with the charger. Thank you for doing this video as I have the 24 kWh env200 and went to a main dealer on Tuesday to see about the 40 kWh env200, not so sure now about getting it straight away, he said the issues have been fixed with the 40 kWh Leaf with a software update at the dealership and should not have any problems with the env200. So maybe get that software update and do another test. Talking about testing would love to see the Leaf vs the env200. Also did you try putting the heating on in the cabin when charging? It may improve the cooling of the batteries as the 'waste' heat can be syphoned off? worth a try.. As always excellent content. Btw I get 5.2 miles per kWh which would give me around 187 miles or around 299 km in the new 40 kWh env200

[@tucsonor]

You mention softwareupdate fixing the Leaf. Pitty no info about that anywere on the net. Or is Nissan just smugling this update in the "back door" when car is in for service? They should have put that on the news, not hide it.

[@talhabinumeed650]

How foolish not to have active cooling while driving, batteries are design for 20 celcius where they output best performance and range. Why safe KWh while sacrificing battery health

[@ericspda]

Almost all chemestries perform better when hot. The hotter, the better. BMS's tend to be designed to throttle charge power and discharge power to reduce the amount of heating as it dramatically ages the battery. But the cells have lower internal resistance and will charge faster when hot if you don't care about life.

[@steveau1747]

Tesla Model s is available since 2012 (if i am now wrong), why Nissian EV is still a few years behind tesla even it is new model ? Why not 60kwh Leaf or e-NV200 60kwh with normal active heat or cooling for battery ?

[@andygardner6016]

Really confused as to why the new eNV only cools when it turned on, my eNV-200 (2016 24kWh) cools every evening when I plug it in at home (turned off) when plugged into my 7kW charger. At work on the "granny" I have not noticed it coming on but again it always cools when I plug into a rapid charger when its switched off.......Whats going on???

[@PongPongDudlDu]

That's strange indeed...

[@PongPongDudlDu]

And there you can turn on the cooling during driving and charging without the car being switched on?

[@AdamDadeby]

It seems mad that the eNV200 doesn't actively cool when it is charging, and switched off. Otherwise, you can't leave your car while it juices up.

[@hdrobbe8990]

I drive my '18 Leaf to and from the office only, 32 miles each way. It is my work car, and I have never driven more that 200 miles in a day. Yes, I could have bought an i3 or a Tesla, but I will never spend that amount to drive to work. In other words, the Leaf is not for everyone. Neither is the Tesla or the i3.

[@kuldippanesar590]

Howard Dwight your daily drive is not the point it's all about capabilities not your needs you may as well get a sinclair c5 or a ebike .

[@borisdemelo]

Can you do this test for the e-Golf? It also doesn’t have active cooling so I’m curious how it deals with this (how low does it go?)

[@nextmovevideos]

We plan to test that for VW eGolf too. On Monday we are picking up several brand new eGolf from the VW factory in Dresden. Just subscribe to the channel to not miss the test.

[@tehdime]

this charging stations should provide some cooling for the ev's. maybe some big fans in the tarmac which blow on the battery pack. :D

[@petersneditz7122]

I wonder how you managed 12,7 kWh/100 km avarage with this car. I never got lower than 15,9 kWh, normal use in summer is ~18,5 kWh in my 24kwh version. Is there a drive unit modification, better tyres ...?

[@bjornnyland]

I drove like a ninja.

[@paulschmit4223]

I suppose Leaf will win if temp. is below 20 degrees outside.

[@williamerazo3921]

Can I get that vehicle imported from EU to hear to the states

[@sherizaahd]

Hopefully Nissan learns from this and doesn't mess up the 60 kWh leaf e-plus...

[@PongPongDudlDu]

And brings the bigger batterie to the e-nv 200!

[@Trades46]

Is it me or the 40 kWh AESC battery is a LOT more restrictive than the 30 & 24 kWh pack when it comes to rapid charge throttling? Maybe in that pack configuration even with the e-NV200 with the active fan cooling it is too hot to be used consecutively fast charged.

[@BigB29357]

Dear Bjorn. Do you think the same recommendation of keeping the car ON while fast charging is true for the Zoe 40?

[@bjornnyland]

I don't think so.

[@BigB29357]

But the question is how much energy will active cooling take and how the range will be affected.

[@bjornnyland]

I saw on LeafSpy that it consumed only 100-200 W. Propulsion typically consumes 10-15 kW.

[@VitalyXXL]

12.6 km /kW ???

[@KyleClerico]

What's the name of that app you're using with the OBD connection?

[@cubanlinx]

Leaf spy

[@briise]

test the 30kw leaf too the 40kw leaf oslo alvdal-oslo

[@bjornnyland]

*kWh

[@BillyNoMates1974]

Does the new Nissan Leaf have active cooling that only works if the car is on as well ?

[@bjornnyland]

nope

[@TheSweMusicMan]

No active cooling what so ever in the new Leaf, hence it being worse.

[@BillyNoMates1974]

So the e-NV200 is better in that respect ?

[@TheSweMusicMan]

Yes. The passive cooling in the Leaf was a bad choice by Nissan. Saving money in the wrong places ! And hopefully the active cooling in the e-NV200 40 kWh can be improved with a software update.

[@kasmopaya2676]

How was this done with the old e-NV200? Was the active cooling also only on with powered on car? As i remember, the crazy trip to the north from Bjørn with the old car was very cold weather and the battery temp was also quite high. Maybe the active cooling was also not always on?

[@robertbindler2481]

Sorry not good interview nothing on the car itself did you like it how it feels ? Nice to drive ? Spacious ? Cost effective ?

[@bjornnyland]

+Robert Bindler Search for e-NV200 on my channel. Lots of videos that answers your questions.

[@arnebirkeland6249]

Competision: Leaf vs. Nv200 vs, Ionic

[@sergiudan117]

You guys are always talking about throttled charging speed, when it comes to overheating, but no one talks about battery degradation which is almost as bad. #rapidgate destroys batteries, too. And... Go for #rapidgate race!

[@nextmovevideos]

We have done a #Rapidgate Race already -> kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYDHYZ2wo7eqbLs

[@lotosfeet]

Can I make contact with that gray Nissan Leaf owner that has a hitch bar for a trailer? How to make it legal...

[@bjornnyland]

It's not for trailer. It's for bike rack, etc.

[@Deutschland-hat-Hungerde]

english subtitles please :D

[@HenriZwols]

Drive at most 95km/h, do not overtake. Nissan: "We design our cars to be as economically as possible."

[@DerBlauzahn]

I wonder if the manufacturers are doing this on purpose? They make electromobility as unattractive as possible.

[@MultiMonitor]

There is clearly negligence somewhere. Ether purposeful, or accidental.

[@markplott4820]

YES, absolutely. right now they only make COMPLIANCE vehicle. not for Performance or Endurance.

[@fancyIOP]

@@MultiMonitor I guess we should all buy Tesla since it's more dedicated and electric cars are their bread and butter.

[@NoProb4Rob]

@@fancyIOP check out videos on KZbin about problems with repairing Teslas after their warranty has run out

[@fancyIOP]

@@NoProb4Rob Hmmmmm so I guess we should wait for Germans maybe?! Just that I was looking at the dedication of EVs. Tesla will improve overtime that's for sure.

[@brianmwanzia3556]

charging stations crowded. can you blame people who don't want that hassle of waiting up to use a charger and also waiting some more for the car to charge?

[@bjornnyland]

This was an event. Normally there are not that many queueing up.

[@zaixai9441]

Looks like the problem with EV's will be having the capacity to charge them all. With petrol it's just 5 or so mins per car and then they leave. Entire car parks will need to be chargers when all cars are EV's because they have to be charging for so much longer. Plus, how will they be able to provide enough electricity for 300 cars using fast charging?

[@bjornnyland]

No need for 300 stalls. Superchargers have about 10-20 stalls. Just google it.

[@user-un6xf6xj8w]

Chinese?

[@terjeoseberg990]

You shouldn't say, "You have to keep your car running..." when it's an electric car. Nothing is, "running" when you turn it on. Instead you should say, "You have to keep your car on..." Anyway, it's pretty sad that they couldn't just turn on the active cooling when you plug in the car. There's no reason why they couldn't have done that other than a lack of thinking on their part.

[@bjornnyland]

Nitpicking. The computer(s) are running. The aircondition is running. The active cooling is running.

[@TheMagdiragdag]

In Dutch we have a word for what Nissan is doing: 'Prutsers' which probably translates best to 'Botchers' My friends have a Leaf, they love it, but the rapidgate is a shadow on the pleasure the car should give... Will they buy a Nissan again? No! Will I replace my Ioniq with a Nissan 60kW? No... I've reserved a spot for a Kia Niro 64kW in NL and when my spot comes up for a call I make the final decision, but Kia/Hyundai know what they are doing. Nissan f*cked up. plain and simple.

[@kuldippanesar590]

Nissan had a chance to prove themselves what a disappointment totally put me off the brand. Does everyone else know how to sort it other than nissan the thousands of hours testing it and no resolution back to rapidgate really poor show.

[@kuldippanesar590]

Too many hoops to jump through wouldn't be any good for uk roads national speed limit 70mph roughly 115kph...what's wrong with Nissan you would think they would have learnt there lesson it's totally put me off the brand they had a second chance and wasted it .