Black Panther's Villain Problem | Video Essay

Black Panther just swept up a billion at the worldwide box office, but how does it fare against a certain superhero movie from ten years prior? We delve deep into the way both Black Panther and The Dark Knight utilises their villains and to what effects.
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The music used in this video is for educational purposes only, and belongs to their respective owners.
Killmonger's Theme- Ludwig Göransson
Main Theme- Ludwig Göransson
Molossus- Hans Zimmer

[@FullFatVideos]

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[@snakekingblues3017]

i enjoy claw far more then killmonger in this movie

[@buki3009]

so basically your problem is that , both the vilains are good ? c"mon , except maybe the CGI fight between tshalla and killmonger at the end (wich doesn't have a negative impact in the emotional moment with the sunset)the villains work perfectly in the movie , and i struggle to figure out wich reason led you to put gardian of the galaxy2 as well as dr strange highter than this movie in your top 20 , ok ok i get it , it is like i am asking you why do you love your dog , it just like it is , but political correcness or not this movie is great ', every single character have an arc in this movie or at least a legit right to be in the story , and more than that the movie is able to creat a culture treat , with war cry, the crossing harm (like an unchained nation, a free nation) , the wakanda forever cry i mean , there is not a single marvel movie who have accomplished that i mean i understand that your antitled to your opinions but i can't understand it and it is fine

[@williamtimonen6814]

IN my opinion: Zsasz gimmick =/= supposed to be sane character.

[@ReaperXC]

After you say the Riddler did not appear in TDK, you ask “why is it TDK can feature four comic book villains and still.....?” They were only three or are you counting Maroni?

[@gollum475dejong3]

The ridler was not in the dark knight.

[@LordSleepy99]

I’m still kinda pissed they killed off Klaue.

[@metrosuez7475]

Sleepy Cerberus Andy Serkis has so much damn charisma. I wanted klaue to be a background villain who just profits off misfortune but never threatens the world. I wish he was only at the very start in the museum and the rest was given to MBJ

[@LordSleepy99]

Metrosuez It took me forever to fully realize that, yes they truly did kill off Klaue. Yes the comic book version of the character would never be able to appear on the big screen, but a more realistic version would’ve been great. Especially since they kinda hyped him up in Age of Ultron.

[@metrosuez7475]

Sleepy Cerberus man you took the words out of my mouth. I'm in the theatre thinking "oh. Sooooo, that's that then?" Serkis was the perfect actor to cast. I really hope something more is done with him. I love Cooglers first two films but I feel like occasionally these directors don't fully appreciate how much some of these characters mean to us comic fans and how huge it is for us to see them on the big screen

[@Geopirate3]

As he said this was an important movie like Wonder Woman for similar reasons. As he also said, Black Panther has less room to grow as a result of killing off 2 of his primary adversaries in his first movie. I think this combination makes it clear that this was planned in the MCU as a one off, less successful movie. If they were planning Black Panther 2 and 3, they would have had to keep one or both of them alive. There was room for Killmonger to incapacitate Klaue and bring him back alive without impacting the movie much. There was also room to lock up Killmonger at the end or otherwise try to rehabilitate him. Killmonger was also a little too destructive when tearing down the old Wakanda. Given what we know of the MCU it's most likely that these decisions were out of Coogler's hands.

[@nelumboandrews6762]

Though they probably didn't mean to they treated the white characters including Klaue like tokens only really used for plot much like

[@claduke]

So, I was today years old when I realized that Mr. Reese was a version of The Riddler.

[@voicemonkey3886]

I believe Klaue should have been the villain of Black Panther and Killmonger should have been saved for the sequel. The first movie should be establishing Wakanda, it’s culture, it’s rules, and it’s characters. We should learn about T’challa and how he wants to live up to his father by capturing Klaue, and T’challa proves himself to be a worthy ruler. (Not killing Klaue, just putting him in a Wakandan prison so he can come back later.) With everything now established, the second film can hit the ground running. Establish Killmonger in the first act, and pretty much everything else can take place in Wakanda in the second and third acts. Also, don’t kill Killmonger because A.) he’s a good villain and B.) Killmonger becomes Killmonger because T’chaka killed his father and T’challa learns not to make the same mistake by killing Killmonger. Doing so gives you more time for things to breathe and you don’t end up with a bloated single film. The first movie is about establishing everything they believe. The second movie is about challenging everything they believe. And it becomes quite clear that the third and final film is about changing everything they believe.

[@Matt4pf]

Ummmm can you write the scripts for the rest of the MCU movies lol?

[@backupdancer3720]

They did what you suggested - they simply did this all in one movie. Typically, the MCU pattern is: 1. Origin story 2. Overcome challenge 3. Progress Black Panther was perhaps forced to do this all in one movie.

[@IcyDiamond]

Let’s just they they’re might not be a sequel

[@erubin100]

OR, Klaue could still have been FEATURED in BP, but not killed off. Instead, while Killmonger is the villain for that particular story, Klaue is the overarching presence saved for the second or even third movie. Similar to Ronan and Thanos in GotG.

[@raymond8920]

I'm glad now they used killmonger now we know that was T'challa's only movie

[@Jinkogunai]

Seriously, why does there seem to be a consensus that Killmonger is a really good villain? I didn’t feel like he was very good. I don’t blame the actor, but more of the script. It’s just really difficult to try and establish yourself as a main villain halfway in the movie. Actually, the movie felt more like a two-part one off series than a high stakes superhero movie.

[@anticlimacticstegosaurus2647]

Because of his motivations, plot reveals, seriousness and the fact that he is so unique.

[@cholanraje1410]

Anticlimactic Stegosaurus not really. The young idealist is a done-before idea.

[@poyi1013]

Also his action is so ridiculously laughable At best.

[@glazed_waffle5629]

U could say the same with Thanos....

[@TrajGreekFire]

@@anticlimacticstegosaurus2647 he hates white people despite the fact he lost his dad because of Wakanda, he tried to take over the world in Avengers universe, he killed his gf for no reason

[@poego6045]

I'll admit, having him turn on Klaue felt a little forced? Cuz he could have done it whenever...yet for some reason did all this stuff to save him and it just is a little confusing. I feel like they didn't know how to pass the mantle of villian from klaue to killmonger

[@Fleato]

L G yeah and shooting his girl was needless too. He was all about black empowerment and shit. And he wasnt just out to mindlessly kill everyone around i didnt feel so why shoot her. That made no sense either

[@muntu1221]

Fleato He literally says "I've killed my brothers and sisters..." in the movie. He kills whoever needs to die to get to his goal.

[@muntu1221]

L G He couldn't do it whenever. He was working with the CIA, who was doing a deal with Klaue. He had to let them go through with the deal to put Klaue on the map of Wakanda so they could fail to capture him, then he'd bring him to them.

[@peoples2296]

L G Kilmonger needed to be the one to bring Klaue in, otherwise they would have never let him into Wakanda. Also he needed to make T'Challa fail at capturing Klaue to make him look like an incompetent leader. This is all shown in the movie.

[@TheLordNugget]

When he turned on Klaue it was a huge wtf moment. There was no logic to it. If he was going to kill the guy he should have just done it in the van as they drove away from the CIA location. If he wanted him alive, tying his hands or wrists would have been a good idea. On top of killing Klaue he just offs his girlfriend like it was nothing. It just seemed to me that his plan was completely devoid of logic.

[@UltimateKyuubiFox]

For me, this movie is a pure example of “Learn the rules so you know how to break them.” Klaue is the antagonist in the first half of the movie so we have time to focus on T’challa. The classic Marvel movie formula has an uninteresting villain so the protagonist can shine. Ryan Coogler’s solution to this was to give the first half to T’challa for him to be likable and develop, then the second half to Killmonger who can challenge him. Klaue as the antagonist represents T’challa working in his father’s shadow. Killmonger comes around and says that’s not good enough. Forcing T’challa to become his own man and make his own decisions. As a result, we have an implicit understanding of T’challa’s internal conflicts and drives as a character, perfectly setup through Klaue’s presence in the film, which is then expertly challenged by Killmonger who resolves those conflicts for him and forces him to take on more pressing ones. Without taking the time to setup T’challa’s familial regret over Klaue, we wouldn’t have learned to what extent T’chaka’s past failures deeply affect T’challa on an emotional and motivational level. Which serves to make Killmonger’s portion of the film, even if only subconsciously, hit like a truck. If it’s done for a purpose, i don’t mind rules being broken. For me, this structuring was a work of genius. The Dark Knight wasn’t Batman’s film. It was the Joker’s. This worked because we had time to get to care about Batman in Batman Begins. By that same token, we NEED to care about T’challa before Killmonger blazes through Wakanda. As things stand right now in the popular consciousness, Killmonger is practically the co-lead of the movie. If they’d done it your way, it would’ve been his.

[@thysens]

UltimateKyuubiFox The first half of the movie may have prepared viewers to like T'Challa, however it left us with no reason to care about Killmonger. Due to this lack of empathy being built up for Killmonger, the scenes relating to his killed father and his death at the end emit no emotion like it appears they were intended to.

[@UltimateKyuubiFox]

Arthys They did for everyone I’ve spoken to about the movie.

[@thysens]

UltimateKyuubiFox And out of the people I've spoken to, I've heard the that the scenes didn't. The general consensus from the people I've spoken to is that the emotional scenes, especially his death, feel tacked on.

[@UltimateKyuubiFox]

Arthys You’re not supposed to walk out of the movie thinking Killmonger was right or even really feeling the tragedy, just aware that he’s still human. It’s T’challa’s film primarily. If they’d gone any further, Killmonger would’ve owned the whole film emotionally. As it stands, we understand him. If they’d given him anymore screentime, we might’ve wound up siding with him. Two very different results. There are still people who loved his character the best out of anyone in the movie, which proves that they made the right call; to me, at least. If the antagonist is better than the protagonist, we root for the antagonist. Killmonger is so compelling fundamentally that if you structured the film to support him more, he’d eat the rest of the movie alive.

[@LilMermaid28]

You absolutely correct. I am about get deep into race so don’t hate me buuuuuut being an African American I could relate to Killmonger once I knew his back story. I understood his anger for the Wakanda and T’Challa. How could the Wakandians sit back and watch people who look like them surfer for so long. It’s hard to connect with that if you have never had that experience. Killmongers death was emotional for me not because I liked him but because I related to him. But I always felt for T’Challa. He can’t be blamed for his father shortcomings. He was not the one who killed his father. All in all if your a British white guy it’s hard to connect to killmknger because you have no sphere for reference unlike black people in America who can relate to his anger and dislike for the Wakandians. I did not need a whole move to connect because I already connected to him based on my experiences as a black persons in America.

[@TrippyTulipz493]

10:34 "I think the movie would be far better served by *trimming the fat*-...." *channel is called Full Fat Videos*

[@internetkhufu1644]

I was taken aback by the sudden switch in villains, when I first watched Black Panther. I agree that it feels a bit forced and possibly so due to the need to connect to the MCU universe. The second time I liked the sudden change though. Especially with the understanding that Klaue was just a pawn for Killmonger to achieve his own goals.

[@muntu1221]

It's funny that I keep seeing people say Klaue should've been the villain, but nobody is saying what he could do for the story or relate to T'Challa and Wakanda's story.

[@NickdeVera]

So, Black Panther's villain problem: not enough Killmonger. I can roll with that

[@nostrum6410]

killmonger was the worse villian ive seen in years

[@nostrum6410]

so you went out of your way to tell me you dont care?

[@wizzenberry]

I hated the guy who plays black panther but loved kollmonger

[@wizzenberry]

Snehil Shrey well I’m not an actor so I would agree.. 😂😂 your point is?

[@wizzenberry]

Snehil Shrey you don’t have to have a total understanding of the underlying mechanisms of acting to be able to have a opinion, you can still think something is shit 😂😂😂

[@sarahhunter1114]

Great points. I was disappointed with Killmonger. I felt like they tried to write his character as a paradox, but it came off more as cognitive dissonance. For example, when we see him kill his girlfriend, in my head, I said, Ok, so he’s a psychopath. But then later he’s talking about his sad backstory, and wanting Wakanda (sp) to share their tech in order to benefit the world. So which is it? Is he a psycho, or is he a caring conflicted anti-hero? Plus, the MIT, CIA junk just muddied the waters even more. Is he a poor kid from the hood, who’s chances were stolen by his uncle? Or is he a poor kid from the hood who was taken under someone’s wing enough that he had every opportunity to succeed? I liked the actor, but not how they wrote him.

[@sarahhunter1114]

CK Lim so true

[@kingbradley3402]

He isn't a anti-hero make no mistake. You want Erik to have the same ideals as the good guy which isn't what he is. As for his CIA training, it's exactly how he's carried in the comics. And they did a good job not pursuing too much into his backstory lest he become the protagonist. A good antagonist does a few things: 1. Carries an ideal or motto that definitely contradicts the hero's, so that the hero is more convicted on the good path he is trying to walk. 2. However, the antagonist also shows that you need to re-evaluate how you choose to walk the good path, because you may not realise what you think is good for you, may not benefit others. Remember, Killmonger only speaks of upliftment of blacks around the world. His actions are otherwise. He wants to put guns into his 'trained militants' to overthrow existing government. He wants to deal pain to the perpetrators, not uplift those affected. Also, remember that we get a glimpse of his father's regret the way things were then. To him, the king of Wakanda, T'Chaka just descended and doled out punishment, and didn't care about the aftermath. So you see, he in the end makes T'Challa realise that he has to include and help all people, but not the way Erik has done. Erik serves his purpose, both as the hero-changer and also as the villain. The scene where he watches the sun set shows that he wanted freedom for all blacks, but his methods were wrong due to his hatred. And also, the final scene showing how T'Challa tears down that tenement to build a new one, and the black kid there shows the progression. He is ensuring no more tragedies happen from which more Killmongers are born.

[@eidolon1426]

@@kingbradley3402 Wonderfully said, but you just made me realize something. The actor was great. The character fulfilled his narrative purpose as an antagonist. And the movie made a lot of success financially. So all around, on paper, this is a fantastic movie on par with The Dark Knight. But *why* does it feel so unsatisfying to watch? *Why* do we feel something is wrong somewhere in here? Because the writing is flawed, and it actually has a detrimental effect on the audience. That's probably why people get labeled as "racists" for not liking the movie, because the movie, on paper, is great, but it's flaws are complicated to explain. So not everyone is going to know how to explain the "gut feeling* that they get when something about Killmonger, or the movie as a whole, doesn't work at all in certain scenes. The writing of the story/plot is basic, but sound. The writing of the *characters* was very rough, and could have used several rewrites.

[@salsashark4133]

I agree, when I saw he killed his girlfriend I thought, "Oh, they had a lot of ideas for how to develop this villain and used all of them"

[@BishopDoubleR]

He wasnt a poor kid in the hood. He was the son of a royal family pretending to be a poor family from the hood.

[@cjh.1920]

I disagree with Erik Kilmonger being one of the best mcu villains. I dont speak out about it much because i dont want to be labeled racist or what the hell ever. The only thing that made that character entertaining to me was that Michael B Jordan acted THE HELL out of what he was given. But what he was given was a boring, thin, one sided character in my opinion. When you take away his fantastic performance, the character is very unentertaining to me. Be be entirely honest the whole movie was disappointed to say the least. The only three characters i sort of enjoyed where T'challa, his sister, and klaue. The whole plot was very thin and extremely predictable.

[@sullivandmitry1416]

Christian Hawkins thank you fucking thank you

[@sama2965]

I agree but also disagree. I didn't mind the character himself but I hated Jordan's performance. I thought Klaue was a far better villain and shouldn't have been killed.

[@cryptonix02]

"The character's not good because he's not good." You know, you drive a hard bargain with such an in-depth criticism. However, no, he's still the best MCU villain.

[@kanemcdonald4371]

Cryptonix02 cough (vulture) cough (ego) cough(thanos) cough (obidiah), yeah sorry mate but he’s nowhere near the best villain. 😂

[@cryptonix02]

EGO. Lol. K.

[@taokhan]

i wish they did not kill klaue off could have develop him more like the comic version. marvel is not good at developing villians. The cgi is what hurt the movie. I like the story and killmonger. They should have use him from the beginning and have him interact more with t'challa.

[@FullFatVideos]

We agree, its a shame to kill him off!

[@joshjmc1787]

tdclarkx Loki, Zemo, Vulture and Killmonger are all really good villains. While marvel have chosen to focus more on the heroes that doesnt mean every villain has been a bust

[@srstriker6420]

tdclarkx and I wish klaw and Skruge would outlive the movie and start assembling the masters of evil

[@woodzy136]

while he's definitely a fun villain with a lot of Joker-like energy and humour, there isn't much depth to him. He just wants to make lots of money by selling vibranium. He doesn't seem to care about anything other than money. So I don't think he would want to join up with other villains, or if he did, he would flake out the moment the heroes crashed the party and robbed him of the chance to make more money.

[@zackyvwasin339]

Agree, Why would they need to kill him off? He could be more potential for the future movies and the fact that he's only been in 2 films is the waste of actor's talent, the same as Crossbones... They killed him off too damn fast

[@andrewnibbi]

I really feel like Killmonger would’ve worked much better if they had set him up in the first half to be like the Winter Soldier - a spooky antagonist who only shows up to land hard punches. Keep Klaue where he is, but then make it obvious that he’s more of a puppet than a real villain. Killmonger was protecting him, and then when he’s no longer useful he shoots him right in the head. That way, we see that there’s always a power dynamic that’s evolving, rather than flipping a switch from one to the other. It almost feels like The Last Jedi when he kills Klaue - plot twists for the sake of plot twists.

[@Y0seo]

I really like your video. Just one piece of criticism: Please lower the background musics volume. The music doesn't really fit and sometimes interferes with your voice ;) Keep up the other stuff! Great work

[@Snow4LifeNEver]

Putting The main antagonist's theme doesn't really fit a video about the main antagonist? Hmmm...

[@normalgirlcvco]

As someone who loves to love sympathetic Villians, Killmonger was ok to me, I didn't like him as much I've loved others. Maybe because I never believed he was a real threat, when *spoiler alert* T'challa was supposted to be killed by Erik, I didn't believed it at all because it was in the middle of the movie. In the other hand, imo M'baku stole the show from Erik, he seemed as a bad guy at the beginning and ended up saving T'Challa's ass.

[@FullFatVideos]

M'Baku is a tank.

[@cloroxbleach6344]

Full Fat Videos maybe the bald lady and mbaku will be a thing now that her boyfriend betrayed the country and all

[@DutchKirby]

M'Baku was great. I thought it was a nice detail how he clearly didn't trust Ross for being an outsider, but contrary to Killmonger, didn't necessarily hate him. He just intimidated and messed with him a bit.

[@TheUltimate620]

Full Fat Videos It's funny how different T'Challa is from his own movie versus how much of a badass he was in Civil War... Most people either don't notice this or push it under the rug and sugarcoat it

[@mercutioescalus6782]

TheUltimate620 T'Challa is driven by emotion. That's why he was able to beat Killmonger the second time around. In Civil War he was PISSED

[@orster2076]

Also, Scarecrow was a cameo for 5 minutes in TDK..

[@CutDownTheSun]

orster2076 and there was no Riddler, so TDK had two villains.... not 4

[@FullFatVideos]

He was an antagonistic force in the sequence he was in, and said scene helped to establish one of the themes in the movie. As we said in our video, each villain served a purpose for the time that they were used.

[@carstenweizer]

Cut Down The Sun riddler was in it it was mister Reese .....aka myster ries

[@Fleato]

Anddd killian murphy is also in the dark knight rises. He was the one sentencing people to death or exile once bane took over the city.

[@khkazmi9873]

Cut Down The Sun The Riddler was there. He was Mr. Reese (Mysteries) and discovered Batman’s identity like the comic Riddler did.

[@filmmoviePRODUCTIONS]

This movie was great, but definitely not perfect, and this was a major problem that I had with this film. Great vid.

[@fangerzstanky]

No movie is perfect

[@FPSLounge_]

In my opinion, that makes this movie not great. A major problem is a major problem, if you follow. This movie is pretty good, not great imo. But to each their own

[@Imari-Tard]

@@fangerzstanky the movie sucks dude

[@fangerzstanky]

@@Imari-Tard of course it does its awful, that wasnt my point tho

[@Imari-Tard]

@@fangerzstanky oh read it wrong. I imagined it as no the movie is perfect

[@TheValorious]

Killmonger in the comics(afaik) has a reoccurring theme with coming back from the dead. I think it's far from the last we'll see of him.

[@Mia199603]

Like almost everyone else in the superhero comic books. There used to be a saying "in Marvel everyone comes from the dead, except Bucky" and even that got corrected xd

[@majpeaches]

Especially with all of the "I'm team Killmonger" or "Killmonger was the hero." Easy cash grab.

[@scorch1239]

MajPeaches how was he the hero 😂😂😂

[@majpeaches]

SCORCH123 Not me saying that, others. I believe it has to do with the fact that people are saying Wakanda and T'Chala are "Alt-Right" (because everything has to be politically centered) and that Killmonger wants to open Wakanda to the world (Probably a shot at Trump wanting a wall). Also probably all the shit that Killmonger says about slaves. Simple heart string pulling. But you know, the hero would totally be like "I'm king now, so all my black brothers, you get these advanced weapons. LETS KILL WHITEY." But I digress.

[@scorch1239]

MajPeaches yeah I agree with you but i don’t see how these people can say Wakanda is alt right yet agree with killmonger who wants to enact a ethnic cleansing of all white people. Maybe the SJW politically correct retards are the racist nazis

[@somebodystopme3822]

Why is Killmonger allowed to enact his plan? It's blatantly obvious that he was the one who broke Claue out so shouldn't the Wakandan's have immediately branded him an enemy of the country? He is an radical extremist foreigner with no understanding of the country, who commits crimes which directly effect Wakanda and who's entire belief system directly goes against Wakandan values and laws but they all just say "hey sure let him challenge BP for the throne, what could go wrong?" On top of that, why does the guy from Get Out and his entire clan follow Killmonger so quickly? They make it out that it's because Killmonger captured and killed Claue when BP couldn't but Killmonger is the whole reason why BP didn't bring Claue in. Not only that but wouldn't Get Out guy naturally follow his old friend and king over some random guy who turns up one day? Ugh I enjoyed this movie but the more I think about it the more things don't make sense and just annoy me. That's not even getting into the cultural effect and the droves of people who misinterpreted the messages of the movie and use it as a tool to fuel their hate for others.

[@woodzy136]

Only 4 characters (the team that goes on the mission) know or suspect that Killmonger was working with Klaue, and I don't remember if they ever share that fact with everyone else. He is brought in chains to meet T'Challa because he's an intruder, and the initial reaction to him from the council is hostile. But then he reveals that not only is he Wakandan, but he's actually royalty and that T'Challa's dad killed his and covered it up. Which makes T'Challa seem like he doesn't deserve the throne, or at least, the council now has another candidate to consider (originally in the ceremony, the council/main families didn't challenge him, remember?). 'Get Out' guy siding with Killmonger is a couple of things. First of all, T'Challa doesn't let him go get Klaue (Get Out guy requests to take him out himself). Secondly, he doesn't let him come along on the mission either. Thirdly, T'Challa's girlfriend is from one of the main families, and if you ever watched e.g. Game of Thrones, this would lead to a case of the King favouring one of the families over the rest. Fourthly, T'Challa refused to kill Klaue, which is what Get Out guy wanted. And fifthly, T'Challa failed to get Klaue back to Wakanda, which is what he promised to do. Sixthly(?) he seems like he wants war; bored probably, or maybe also thinks Wakanda should rule the world. So that's at least 5/6 on screen reasons why Get Out guy might want to betray T'Challa. We've seen people betrayed in films for a lot less than that.

[@somebodystopme3822]

Grey T. Knight well your first argument is that a only a few people saw Killmonger take Klaue but that doesn't really effect what I said. I was inferring that those who did see him should have immediately pointed out that fact to everyone but instead they just don't mention it. Any normal thinking person would have immediately called out Killmonger in front of everyone and brought up all the things I previously stated as reasons why he shouldn't be trusted or given even a minuscule chance at the throne. I already stated that Get Out guy being salty at Black Panther and siding with Killmonger would have been negated immediately if Black Panther just told him that Killmonger is the reason he escaped in the first place. The fact that he wanted to get Klaue and kill him but wasn't allowed just to have to find out that Black Panther fails in bringing him back would make some sense as a reason to side with Killmonger but like I said, if Black Panther just explained that they would have gotten Klaue if it weren't for Killmonger the whole issue would have been negated. Even if that wasn't an option (which it was) Get Out guy still jumps from loyal subject and friend with some opposing views straight to siding with a genocidal maniac after one conversation with Killmonger, no amount of disagreements of the capture of one guy causes someone to flip that hard.

[@woodzy136]

If I remember right, he was wearing the old-African-mask when he rescued Klaue and they never saw his face. They could have suspected it was him, because of the rest of his outfit, but it's just a suspicion at that point and becomes somewhat irrelevant when he reveals his father's murder. And if at that point, T'Challa brought up that Killmonger might have rescued Klaue before killing him, then that would seem like he was trying to deflect/bullshit his way out of the revelation that Killmonger made. T'Challa didn't know how to play the situation or what Killmonger wanted when he was brought to the council, and Killmonger beat him by playing his cards first. Plus if you're the council, it wouldn't sound likely that Killmonger rescued Klaue just to kill him. That's what happened and we know that as the audience, but it wouldn't make sense to them if it was a real situation.

[@muntu1221]

Somebody stop me! The only person that knew Killmonger saved Klaue was T'Challa. He's the only person that really just saw him directly while not being shot at. With that said, T'Challa literally said why he didn't mention it, and it was because he pitied Killmonger. He was going to kill him, but chose not to because they were family, and he didn't mention _that_ part for obvious reasons. W'Kabi flipped, not because he was siding with a genocidal person (he didn't even know that part yet), but because he didn't trust the royal family anymore. He stayed by his side because he could either choose a powerful leader that gets things done, or an impotent leader that doesn't seem excited about solving your problems. Killmonger made himself out to be a capable leader that is actively concerned with the problems of others. It doesn't matter if genocide was a part of that, he was the better leader of the two in W'Kabi's mind.

[@kirabook]

Exactly. Only T'Challa knew that Erik rescued Klaue , and he only knew that because he saw the same ring he has around his neck. He never even saw his face. T'Challa immediately went to Zuri to find out the truth and told no one else. It was Erik who revealed his identity and what happened to his father. T'Challa said nothing and explained nothing, just accepted his challenge. I'm sure Nakia and Okoye might've been able to piece together that Erik was the one that broke Klaue out in the first place, but whatshisface was blinded by the 'gift' Erik gave him (Klaue's body) and acted as a road block to anyone trying to stop Erik and his plans. It's like politics. No matter how much you dislike the leader and even when they seem batshit crazy, there are too many rules in place and you can't just upseat someone on a whim. Erik won the fight fair and square. Their unchanging traditions allowed a maniac to get to power and there's nothing they could do since no rules were broken. This is a vital part of Okoye's character who wasn't able to act until Erik broke the rules and refused to continue the challenge with T'Challa.

[@kerberb5994]

I can’t believe this got higher than the dark knight on Rotten Tomatoes

[@thomasvanderstockt2985]

Because it’s not about how good the movie is but how manny black people are in it. If it wasn’t for the fact that it is a black super hero people would see the trash plot

[@JamesSmith-xc2lu]

@@thomasvanderstockt2985 ive never seen someone say somthing so controversial but true

[@RicardoPetinga]

@@thomasvanderstockt2985 The Dark Knight is an amazing movie, but so is Black Panther. Neither is perfect. I watched Black Panther twice in theaters, and just rewatched it a few days ago, and I'm not black but I certainly do appreciate the fact that a Black Panther movie wasn't just a black superhero surrounded by white characters, because that would've made no sense, much like your reactionarism. Black Panther's plot is very well written and I disagree with this video's claims that it had a problem by not focusing on only one villain. If anything the problem was that, as usual, Marvel has presented a villain who is very close to being right and is only a villain because he believes the ends justify the means, and they made him resort to needlessly cruelty in pursuit of those ends. Your comment, however, now that's trash.

[@damianmontesinos8908]

@@RicardoPetinga L

[@Akhilesh_bhatt]

I am still sad that they killed Andy Serkis"s character he is genius he was crazy and menacing at the same time

[@justthinking650]

RIP Chadwick Boseman you will stay forever just like Wakanda

[@Makoto03]

I don't really understand the mentality of blindly supporting something just because it being called 'important' by people with agendas. If anything, its condescending that they believe we will settle for anything just because the lead matches our skin color. It really got ridiculous when some movie sites reported this as the 'first black superhero', as if Blade never existed. The current trend of identity politics has gotten so toxic it feels like we are going backwards. When Blade first came out, it wasn't a big deal. The movie survived purely on its own merits and not manufactured hype from the movie press and Disney.

[@FullFatVideos]

But if you don't support these kinds of efforts then we won't get more of them. If Hollywood decided every time a White Superhero film was awful, this genre would have gone the way of the western years ago. And supporting a change doesn't mean you can't critique the movie at large, as we have done.

[@michaeljackson4538]

Moron.

[@archive9796]

Full Fat Videos well Annihilation so we might not even have a choice to support it

[@christopherwilliams1212]

alright, so this is way late but maybe someone somewhere will read this and it can enlighten them. ONE, you can't argue and shouldn't confused as to what people find important to them. It's not that important to you and that's fine but you have no grounds to tell someone what they can or cannot find important. TWO, Black Panther the movie isn't going to save the world, it isn't going to make society equal and fair. No movie has accomplish that BUT the reason this movie is important and it's bittersweet that we get a movie like this is because REPRESENTATION IS IMPORTANT. Representation is even how America was born. NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION, remember? My favorite colors are black and green. Why is that? As a kid I loved power rangers, I like the black power ranger because he was black and that doesn't mean I didn't like the other rangers (Loved the whole team) because my other favorite was the green ranger because he looked cool and his ranger suit was the most different and again he was cool. But I say all this to show, me having representation and seeing a person who looked like me on a show that used kung fu and saving the world from bad guys. Had a little bit of hand in making me the type of person I am today. Favorite color is black and green and I love kung fu movies. This is great for black kids because when they look on tv they see rappers and athletes hence why becoming one of those is a kids dream at one point (happened to me too). So stop asking that dumb question. The world isn't black or white, it's grey as fuck.

[@terraguttierez2996]

Christopher Williams frankly i agree with the original poster. The plot of this movie and the actors were just subpar. You put it up against movies people are claiming its just as good as and you see how bad it is. The fact that they cast black actors and its basically a parade and celebration of black people makes it a good movie in everyones eyes. And people hop onto this bandwagon because supporting black movies are cool and if anyone dared to challenge this movie people would label them as anti black or some shit. I came out of that movie confused as hell. It wasnt good and for me the acting of the main antagonist needed help. He kept alternating gangster and serious wakandan leader. Make up your mind.

[@rileytrey3]

Killmonger is just an average villain

[@aaronm4841]

riley marshall true villains like Vader and joker have far more interesting stories

[@shakky1512]

Amazing every word you just said is wrong

[@aaronm4841]

Shakky killmonger sucks

[@PanzerIVAE]

@@shakky1512 killmonger sucks (2) I personally don't really understand why people think he's such a great nuanced and understandable villain His father was killed for unironically attempting to take over the entire world and how does he react to that? He attempts to take over the entire world and kills anyone that he deems necessary because his daddy died and black people are marginalized

[@VinceroAlpha]

@@PanzerIVAE his father never attempted to take over the world, he wanted to arm themselves against depression. You don't understand because apparently you weren't paying attention.

[@HelixMaster12]

I don't think it's very important or gamechanging, it just seems so because people forgot about Blade and Spawn.

[@jjpierren]

i feel like u were implying that they are forgetting about those two movies with black leads but the difference is those movies werent made for black people... black panther was problack in every sense of the word and neither of those movies really made much of an impact

[@mexicantimberwolf]

Not to mention Spawn was mostly seen as a bad movie. It probably didn't stay in people's minds as much for the lead being black than for it being a bad movie.

[@BishopDoubleR]

Especially since they were a mere 20 years ago.

[@blindeagleace3629]

HelixMaster12 Dude......Blade came out in 1998. Who the hell still watches that crap? Did you know there was sequels? Crap too. And admit it, spawn was shit. And again in 1997. Like damn, Black Panther isn’t game changing because crappy movies that came out 20 years ago? Those two movies came out when I was born and you expect people to remember those movies? Yeah, everyone forgot about Blade and Spawn because no one wanted to watch those movies. Besides, they aren’t really PG 13. Meaning for many young adults and children, this is their first black superhero. I don’t hear anyone wanting to be Blade or Spawn for Halloween. Just because it’s not very important for doesn’t mean it’s not important for other people.

[@moses9647]

It's not the first black superhero movie but it's the first one to show a black cast can break the bank at the box office, hence the importance. I don't really like the movie but it's influence is undeniable

[@semiawesomatic6064]

As a casual fan I had a different view. I was entertaining throughout the entire movie, it all felt fast paced, but at the same time it never sacrificed character development. Switching villains helped me stay interested throughout the middle of the movie. The same part of the movie that had me yawning in all three iron man movies. I think they accomplished their goal in keeping the average fan entertained, and it's probably one of my favorite marvel movies so far. Just behind Spiderman and Logan.

[@TheJaker5]

😴 yes the Joker was as good of a villain as it gets. Yes Killmonger was a decent bad guy but obviously not even close to the level of the Joker. I actually think Vulture was a better MCU villain than Killmonger but that’s just me.

[@ozymandias2944]

Yeah literally JUST you

Sgt Doomguy - no, it was me, too. Killmonger was literally a black Hitler. His plan was literally ethnic cleansing. Vulture just wanted to provide for his family in a bad economy

[@BirdsElopeWithTheSun09]

I think Vulture was better too, he was actually in the whole movie.

[@ZeLink128]

both are good villains, but i feel like the politics behind killmonger were pretty ham-fisted. they could have spent more time on him tbh.

[@Carisma1005]

Bob Pickleson so in your opinion, Magneto is a shit villain and Vulture was good, mainly because of Keaton. Every one of his motivations converged at money. Thanos' end goal is to remove 50% of life period, "for what"? Because. And Black Panther consciously didn't say "white people" because they know you have to spoon feed everything, oppressors and oppressed, if you have no power, you're not an oppressor. Wanting to turn the tide on a battle the was never really a battle by arming people that went from being considered chattle, to trash, to less than, to maybe a person is much less Plain Jane than "this house cost a lot and my daughter has nice shoes now".

[@Haghenveien]

Everybody says Killmonger is a good villain but I don't like him. I think it could had been a great villain but everything goes too fast with him. I think he needed more time time to develope more the character and to show more of the character. For example, he has all those scars meaning that he has killed a lot of people, I would love to see more of that. Don't tell me he's a killer, show me he's a killer. Yes, he kills in the movie, but it's kind of tame (also, one's the other villain, so it doesn't really count). It's not scary enough.

[@FullFatVideos]

I agree it would have great to see more of Killmonger, rather than being told all these details. Maybe if Klaue didn't take up so much time in the first half we could have seen some of the adventures he describes before he and T'Challa spar at the waterfall.

[@Toyon95]

I agree! SHOW don't tell.

[@lonelysoul954]

His plan to start the war on the rest of the world is incredibly underwhelming in execution. None of the technology or fighting force they show is enough to accomplish the stated task. For a villain with military background this is out of character. It's not like Wakanda seems ready to fight the entire world, or has much experience with previous wars. Even when it comes to potential opportunities, he is wasteful. Why burn the plants, if you can build an army of vibranium-armored supersoldiers? His ideology seems strong enough to attract loyal followers, yet he doesn't train or prepare them, despite his own clear martial superiority. This makes the ending pretty boring and standard.

[@NekoMouser]

That was the only real problem. His motivations were real and great, but because he didn't make his move until halfway through the movie, he had to race to put his plan into action and everyone just kinda went along with him without too much resistance as he burned their sacred flowers and sent their precious vibranium out into the world. At the LEAST, there should have been more about some faction of people in Wakanda wanting to do more to help their brethren in the greater world. His love interest expressed some of that, but not a desire to carry out that goal through mass violence. No contingent seemed to be pro-violence. The border tribe that totally got Killmonger's back never expressed such desires about the world and ONLY backed him because he showed up with Klaue's body. Their leader never even let his lifelong friend who failed explain why or that he ONLY failed BECAUSE the very guy who showed up with the body stole it from him and Klaue WAS coming back to Wakanda to face justice had that guy not interfered. He just turned instantly on his lifelong friend and girlfriend because of the body. It was all too fast, despite being potentially good and deep and meaningful rationale.

[@AGEE_95]

Lonely Soul Lonely Soul their technology definitely would’ve been enough to star war. It was shown throughout the film, but you weren’t paying attention. That’s the issue. And he didn’t have an army before he went to Wakanda, he got it after he got the title of king. What would be the point of having the Dora Milaje if Wakanda didn’t have to go into battle before? Again you have to pay attention. Okoye mentioned herself they they only get involved when it’s necessary, when talking to Killmonger. The problem is that you are making it sound more complicated than it is. It’s not a hard plot to follow. And none your statements about what wasn’t clarified or shown, are even factual-based. Your argument totally falls apart because of that.

[@operativevtwosixteen1734]

I feel like you are a highly intelligent guy and even being black myself I understand that nearly every point you’ve made makes absolute sense, but I also feel like looking at everything from a critical or analytical point of view takes away from the ability to accept and enjoy the things we cannot change

[@jacksonjoestar5035]

7:58 - Let's hold up for a second there. . . Good guy T'Chala. . . .Saves a complete stranger's life by taking him out of the line of fire . . . . .

[@basedbattledroid3507]

I'm sorry... I couldn't stop laughing when you pasted those Marvel villains' faces onto that clip of the guy slapping everyone...

[@herethererainbows]

Vegetarian Soylent-Green I don't understand your name.

[@enkiimuto1041]

Same XD

[@rickandrygel913]

I can explain it. You are what you eat. So vegans are only plants. And Soylent green made from vegans qualifies as a vegan dish.

[@mad4song01]

Just goes to show that Killmonger still ain't got jack on Loki.

[@enkiimuto1041]

Funny thing, maybe if Killmonger lived and learned something about being king the same way the actual king learned from him, he would've been a way better villain.

[@NotYurAverageJoe]

Hey guys, it's fine if you disagree with this guy's opinion, but don't dislike the video JUST because you disagree with that opinion. It's a good video. Respectful, well-edited, and he does very good job of comparing and explaining his point in-depth. A lot of work probably went into it so please try and respect that.

[@FullFatVideos]

The internet doesn't deserve you.

[@NotYurAverageJoe]

Full Fat Videos aw shucks lol

[@maxieprimo2758]

I disliked it because he said it was important because it has a lot of black people in it.

[@majorharris8194]

I absolutely loved the Killmonger character. He stole the show! Great film! Loved it.

[@thelegacyofgaming2928]

Agreed. But it's popular to hate him I guess.

[@stefanocanicchio7278]

@@thelegacyofgaming2928 And I literally dunno why.The tastes are tastes,ok,but I dunno all this hate,its a great villian,portrait by a great actor

[@Usernamesdontmatter1]

I just found his whole plan stupid. He planned to solve issues black people have by giving all of them high tech weaponry and hope that all them stay loyal to him while he goes on a genocidal rampage. Idk maybe the movie just presented his plan poorly but I know quite a few people who would order 66 him in a heartbeat.

[@justthinking650]

@@Usernamesdontmatter1 but look at thanos who people chooses over him, he's a guy who wants peace by what destroying half of the universe, I get what makes thanos a great villain because he's motivation is understandable (despite being really dumb) and he shows a semblance of a real person but what makes killmonger any different? he's a fully fleshed out character, we learn he's motivation and he's ire with t'challa, I know he's just the same "villain who has same powers as hero" but what makes him different is that we see where he is coming from which is a new step for marvel

[@Usernamesdontmatter1]

@@justthinking650 I'm not comparing him to any villain. I'm saying he is stupid. I'm not even bringing up Thanos. The movie just kinda makes us wanna believe that every black person if given a laser rifle would just side with killmonger which no despite what the media tells you black people aren't united under one philosophy for this coup to work. They do not have some hivemind that makes them all agree on one thing. Again I know quite a few who walked out of that movie saying they would have joined just to get the gear and then betray the shit out of him cause he's a genocidal maniac. Like if his plan was to take over wakanda and then slowly subvert the american black community through race baiting propoganda and setting up fixed scenarios to ignite a race war and THEN arm these people that would work. But we literally just watch him go from step 1 to step 4 skipping 2 and 3 within the span of a day. Would there be chaos? Yes. Would it go the way he envisioned? Hell no. People would shoot the living hell out of eachother. I didn't feel for killmonger cause he was a maniac who wanted to commit genocide because he had a rough childhood everyone else had and his plan was too simplistic and stupid to actually work. Unless he was doing some 4d chess move where he would invade the U.S with an army while America was dealing with the chaos which is an almost 3rd grader attempt at grand strategy...still in the end wouldn't go in his favor. He pretty much had a saturday morning cartoon level of villain plan.

[@DaniG._.German]

The man was king for one day and went to war without a reasonable understanding of Wakanda's armory.

[@Psalm_23]

I got a problem with the small women throwing around 6 foot 200 pound guys like they were toys But if course what can I expect from the studio who expects me to believe black widow can over power 6 guys at once

[@etaurs]

To be fair, while not stated in the movies, she does have the Russian version of cap's super serum. She should be able to trounce most humans

[@John-fk2ky]

Matthew Webster If it’s not stated in the movies, you’re just making an assumption. What is canon in the comics doesn’t necessarily end up being canon in the movies.

[@WinterPhoenix]

10:11 who's going to tell him the bad news? 😔

[@theninjabird9510]

What?

[@KyrosQuickfist]

When you need more time making qualifying and supporting statements versus criticism just to criticize it, there's a lot more problems than a villain problem.

[@olserknam]

>when you need more time to explain the contenxt than to just say "thing sucks lol" that means that thing truly sucks What? Apparently the only reasonable reply would be "no it doesn't because I said so"?

[@alphabetagaga]

I was fully prepared to shit on this video and call you lots of mean names, but I came around based on your arguments - the focus on Klaue *does* severely mess with the pacing and structure of the movie. I tend to think this is the result of setting up Klaue in Age of Ultron, and perhaps wanting to cram as much into Black Panther to set T’Challa up as a hero on the same level as Iron Man or Cap (in terms of heroics, adventures, etc). I do think Killmonger is an excellent villain, and perhaps the best MCU villain overall, but his arc definitely could’ve been handled more precisely.

[@SewStruck]

Your videos are really cool!

[@FullFatVideos]

Thank you! We're glad you enjoy them! :)

[@johnchristian5027]

Nice video, I think all the points you raised are valid.

[@ishaandw]

I really liked Klaue but too get rid of him that easily was dumb. I had the same issue with the villains. And I couldn't like Killmonger as much cause his plan seemed wonky. Though, I could sympathize with him being a minority in my country.

[@Khilkhameth]

If you're counting The Riddler as a villain in Dark Knight, you can also throw in Calculator (the criminal banker played by Chin Han), for a total of five villains.

[@jrd33]

The fundamental problems is that Black Panther is two stories in one film. It should have been two (90 minute) films - one to establish the setting and characters and then the Killmonger sequel in which the established order is overturned and Wakanda has to address its isolationism. Put all this into one film and it's all too crowded, too rushed, and the audience doesn't have time to get to know the characters or to think about the issues the film is trying to address.

[@NotYurAverageJoe]

Completely agree with this

[@ryguy1483]

John Davis Can't argue with that.

[@justinstewart9145]

John Davis, I don't agree. I just feel like some of the first 40 minutes could have been trimmed, so we get more of Killmonger's backstory. Black Panther didn't need two movies.

[@NelsonStJames]

Good, well thought out story analysis, done as someone previously said "the way criticism should be done".

[@veemon9280]

Nice channel, I kind of like the way you described The Dark Knight. I never thought of it like that, but you are definitely right.. the movie actually has 4 Batman villains : Joker, scarecrow, two-face and the riddler....that last one is easy to miss if you're not paying attention. Even if Nolan kept saying he was aiming for realism, its amazing how Nolan was actually able to create a real Batman universe, with most of his rogues gallery present, without the movie ever feeling over stuffed.

[@theweirdofengland]

Klaue's death did feel out of the blue and disjointing, especially as I didn't realise he had been in a previous Marvel film (I've never seen Age of Ultron). He was such a good villain thanks to Andy Serkis' performance. Killmonger was good too; these characters deserved a film each.

[@rohgenextfan]

Tip for future videos: balance out the audio between your talking and the background music. Once you start using the song at 9:40 it gets harder to hear you over the song. Good video.

[@FullFatVideos]

Thank you, we will! :)

[@classyfacemakeup]

Nice video!! 💓👏

[@Grimmlocked]

Look how diverse this cast and crew of this movie is!

[@andrewpapucci]

So like..killmonger was one of the better villians. But i dont feel like he was as special as many seem to think. He’s probably in my top 5 but not near the front. Itd be 1.Thanos 2.Loki 3.Vulture 4.Zemo 5.Killmonger

[@vigilant_2731]

Thanos gang 👊

[@tobyw9113]

Agree

[@user-lu4xp7iv8c]

Andrew Papucci I agree accept I would put killmonger before zemo

[@thelegacyofgaming2928]

Killmonger before Zemo, but other than that, yes.

[@Toyon95]

I really liked the IDEA of Killmonger- but not the execution. Andy, I think personally, is the superior actor of the two- and it showed- so I was very sad when he was killed off, but it was probably for the best. They shouldn't have included Andy in the first place perhaps. It would perhaps been better to have him in Black Panther 2 or something.

[@theargawalathing]

Thank you for articulating my mixed feelings on this movie into a cohesive and structured explanation.

[@TierZoo]

wow the background music in this video is all over the place.

[@Ruderickle2424]

Kinda like the structure of the movie haha

[@Sol-cf3zw]

True

[@RandomUploads-ch3bh]

Wow! I've only seen this film recently and you have articulated (And with visual aids have described) my exact thoughts and reactions to those film. That bar graph type thing at 9:15 has symbolised perfectly how I pictured it.

[@adnanilyas6368]

I can tell you exactly why Klaue is in this movie. And it is absolutely crucial. Klaue is in the movie in order so symbolize colonization. He's a white South African (a country famed for systematically segregating and oppressing its black population for a white minority) who makes his living by selling stolen extracted metals to rich white people who want to use them to make weaponry. For god's sake, Coogler even said in an interview that he put Klaue in a blue shirt in the Busan scene to symbolize colonization. It's important to have a depiction of colonization like this because the movie is EXPLICITLY a conversation between people of color about colonization and power. Klaue gives legitimacy to Wakanda. Wakanda is presented as part of Africa, disguised as a third world country, with exotic and ostentatious customs and dress, a monarchy, and a system of politics that explicitly incorporates (potentially) lethal violence. Oh, and it's full of black people, and as a whole, the general media hasn't done a very good job of depicting them as anything other than poor and or threatening. There's a real threat that (white) viewers will see the country and still think "They are still savages, but with fancy spears." So, in comes Klaue as a very clear foil. He is very clearly depicted as a despicable maniac and sadist. He comes in and the audiences automatically understands "Oh, he is the savage." (It helps that he constantly calls the Wakandans that. Nice inversion there.) Let me say that again. The White Guy representing colonization is the savage. And the black people are the civilized ones. That is REALLY central to what this movie is trying to say. And it's not exactly something that is done a lot, especially not in our massive blockbusters. Klaue is also necessary set up for the thematic conflict between Killmonger and T'Challa. To begin with, Klaue represents the kind of horror and devastation that white people inflicted on the continent of Africa (and the rest of the world, but, for the purposes of this film, specifically Africa). It is entirely clear and understandable to the audience why people want him dead. You don't question that for a moment. And, indeed, what the people of Wakanda very clearly want is for Klaue to be punished by death. T'Challa is happy to do this... but ONLY through a system of due process (he makes a point to say to W'Kabi when asked that he will bring Klaue back, omitting the chance to kill him. And when he is captures Klaue in Busan, he (at the behest of the advisors with him, Nakia and Okoye) does not kill him. So T'Challa wants to hold Klaue, who symbolizes colonization, accountable, through corporal punishment, but through an orderly process, but without the participation or knowledge of the rest of the world. But T'Challa fails. Klaue gets away. In contrast, Killmonger offs Klaue when it's convenient for him, with no regard to collateral damage (even his girlfriend). Klaue is brought to Wakanda in a bag. What a humiliating way for him to die. But there is no empathy lost for him. Killmonger's actions are immediately understandable and, this important, justified to the audience (at least in the specific act of killing Klaue).Humiliating and killing the symbol of colonization is justified for the sake of the People, even with the collateral damage. And right there is the conflict. When you have the power to act and right a wrong, what do you do? Do you act in isolation, with your own specific rules, hidden from the rest of the world? Or do you take the initiative in your own hands and hold those accountable, whatever the damage or the cost? When you make the conflict apply to all of colonization and hold all those responsible for the oppression of people of color, you suddenly warp the situation into one that is much more horrifying (though, I should also say, it's going to rather bother the audience as well, because they would be the ones hypothetically held accountable). By making the conflict initially much smaller, around a single man who symbolizes the systemic oppression and violence, you make a conflict much easier to handle and make those who hold the later position (like Killmonger) more relatable. At the same time, it forces T'Challa to grow, because he has seen that his approach was insufficient and needed changes in order to win.

[@vanessajones8774]

Adnan Ilyas worth the read 👍🏾

[@woodzy136]

Agreed, great perspective. Klaue is interesting in many ways. Just like Killmonger is both similar and opposite of T'Challa, Klaue is opposite but similar to Martin Freeman's character. Killmonger wants to use Wakanda's superior technology to conquer the world (i.e. (reverse) colonialism), while Klaue wants to sell the technology for war in general. At the same time T'Challa represents Neo-Colonialism - the modern-type of colonialism, where wealth is the dominant power, and the richer (nations) isolate themselves and refuse to help the poorer. Martin Freeman represents that partially - American spy/agent acting in South Korea, trying to acquire the weapons for the US, to prevent future war. So Klaue and Freeman are two sides of the same coin. And while Klaue represents old colonialsim, Killmonger represents reverse colonialsim and T'Challa represents neo-colonialism, Martin Freeman represents white's people attempt to repent for that past. He is ultimately willing to die for Wakanda, and absolutely falls in love with the people and the culture. And doesn't betray their trust or tell anyone about what he saw. I think ultimately, Klaue and Freeman show (some of) white people's attitudes to colonialism, while T'Challa and Killmonger show (some of) black people's attitude to it as well. Continued racism vs repentance ; want for revenge vs want to be the better man.

[@josharntt]

Grey T. Knight, I agree

[@NotYurAverageJoe]

That doesn't mean you couldn't more efficiently dive deeper into those themes throughout two more cohesive, separate movies. Andy Serkis is an incredibly charismatic performer who could have easily carried this movie on his own had his character been given more focus. He has history with the characters and they draw on that but not nearly as much as they could have because they have another agenda for the film. You could have spend more time giving weight to T'Challa's friendship with W'Kabi, as well as with other characters. He could still go through the rituals to become King, maintaining the rose-tinted view of his father as a role-model for the runtime. That would make the reveal in the second film that much more heart-wrenching. The first movie would be in essence a test of his competence as a king through this conflict with an invasive force. By the end he would gain the respect of the other tribal leaders and M'baku by defeating Klaue, but this would also put people on edge in regard to outsiders. The second would be about the consequences of being closed off to the outside world, introducing Killmonger and having the resolution of revealing Wakanda to the rest of the world. With both villains representing such big ideas (that granted build off of each other) in the same movie, it spreads the plot too thin. Saving Killmonger for the sequel could have been so immensely impactful and satisfying, especially after exploring those ideas of colonization with Klaue in the first movie. He deserved a whole movie to himself honestly. I get that they wanted this big twist for who the "real" villain was, but I would rather have a simple story with more time to explore its themes than an overcomplicated plot that moves so fast you only ever get to see the tip of the iceberg, y'know?

[@tastycookiechip]

And now blacks are destroying the rest of the world with mass immigration but i guess it's still white peoples fault for some reason.

[@samuelcox9656]

It’s nice to see you put so much effort into your videos, despite having a relatively small fan base. Good luck for the future!

[@FullFatVideos]

Gotta start somewhere :) the support has been fantastic, thanks for watching!

[@HighHeelKnight]

I was apprehensive about watching this video. I watched the whole thing. I disagreed with your analysis, but I appreciated your perspective. Well Done! Plus that sequence of "Killmonger" slapping the numerous other MCU villains was hilarious! :-D

[@jackhamilton9604]

The Dark Knight also had Sal Maroni and Chechen, so it had 6 villains

[@jackhamilton9604]

@Smithy I know this is kinda late but Coleman Reese was meant to be a nod to the riddler

[@jackhamilton9604]

@Smithy well now you do

[@omgitsmeinnit]

Really like your videos... Couldn't wait to click when this was in my feed. 😀

[@FullFatVideos]

Expect more every week!

[@YouFightLikeACow]

Good analysis.

[@Vivaspecifico]

Only 637 dislikes? Not bad for such a touchy subject. Not bad at all. I subscribed, you must have been very respectful with your approach.

[@thewatcher2305]

Any movie should be subjected to criticism regardless of the race, gender or social class of the critic.

[@joelcraig9803]

Basically what you are saying is that it was two different movies.

[@Michael-ju8fx]

Music is too loud.

[@tomkillsjerry]

Mike On The Go faqs

[@TheBohobemeister]

Wonderful video!

[@miafountain1578]

This is an amazing video and I'm definatly going to check out more of your content. This being said I did notice some quite dramatic shifts in music and one or two long pauses. These are only small things though and I'm sure you can work on them in the future.

[@bbsuffering]

Ulysses Klaue? More like Useless Klaue!! hahahahahahaaahh

[@nelumboandrews6762]

Snehil Shrey for a second I thought you were talking about why horses can't type

[@dylanfitz01]

Klaue was a much better villain than cliché daddy issues

[@MaturinSleeps]

Very interesting.

[@MrGnewsome]

Being a huge fan of Black Panther I didn't want to see this video. But, being a huge fan of yours as well I gave it a view. I'm glad I did as you are always prepared to challenge in an intelligent, not insulting manner, which I appreciate. Good job as always

[@jonatasnogueira7525]

He just have two things that other vilains dont have backstory and flashbacks. Easy to simpatize with him when he had the same struggles that some people had in their lives at some point. "Omg he is so me, i feel him"

[@samsepiol6151]

Major kudos for the Father Ted clip :-)

[@FullFatVideos]

Father Ted: The video essay is on the schedule my friend...

[@drifter_d]

I think everyone (technically) agrees with your bottom line. It just ranges from nitpick to problem depending on how much you got out of the movie.

[@maxieprimo2758]

No I don't. Not even close.

[@Jamfrog35]

I was wondering why I didn't think this film felt like a long TV series, and this issue solved it so well! I love these two villains. Killmonger is intimidating while klaue was a fun and structured villain. If it was a two part episode I would enjoy it more. I mean the film is fine and all but when the black panther "dies" I was like " surely they wouldn't kill him off like that, it's only at the halfway point of the film. It's like as if Star wars episode 4 to 6 is one film. No breathing room to take it all in.

[@Cavey_]

Brilliant analysis !

[@jeremiahfalck3496]

"Bane's the shit out of T'challa." Lol

[@andrewmarshall3408]

People need to stop saying films are important because of hiring practices

[@the_dropbear4392]

Yes

[@jeaniebeanie9371]

I don’t think the reason it’s praised as highly as it is just because of it’s diverse cast. I think it was more due to the focus on it being set in an (fictional) African country. Both because it’s inherently different then most Marvel movies, by being set outside of the U.S., and thus gives off a feeling of individuality, but also it’s willingness and ability to show a sense of pride in black heritage that you don’t see often in Hollywood.

[@grantwilson4506]

@@jeaniebeanie9371 First of all, the movie wasn't diverse. Having 99% black cast is not diverse at all. Second of all, most African Americans don't identify at all with their African "heritage", most Americans think of themselves that way first. I guarantee you no one was thinking, "man, this reminds me of the ancient tribe I'm a part of".

[@jeaniebeanie9371]

Grant Wilson, I understand where you are coming from by think the cast is not diverse. Your comment made me think about how if all the cast is the same race then can that be classified as diverse. It made me want to do some research and I found something pretty cool. Chadwick Boseman, Micheal B. Jordan, Angela Basset, Forest Whitker are African-American. Danai Gurira is Zimbabwean-American. Lupita Nyongo is Kenyan-Mexican. Martin Freeman, Daniel Kaluuya and Andy Serkis are English. Florence Kasumba is Ugandan-German. And Letitia Wright is Guyanese. These people from all over the world were able to come together and make his movie come to life. It’s pretty awesome.

[@jeaniebeanie9371]

Grant Wilson, yes. I agree with you on the point that American’s see themselves as Americans first. But the thing about Americans is that we all came here from somewhere. And because of how Africans were forced here against their will they lost a part of who they were, along with their homes and families. We are thought from elementary to college that this is scar left on the world that can never be made up for. But we don’t normally think that the scar still has an affect. Racism. Redlines. Systematic discrimination and oppression. These are all the side affects of slavery. Along with these comes the total erasure of heritage. With the recent creation of cites like ancestry.com and 22andMe people have been able to see where they came from and feel a sense of pride. And the film Black Panther plays into this. In an interview with the New York Times, Camille Friend, who oversaw the various hair designs of what she calls, “a totally Afrocentric, natural hair movie,” said the entire production was considered against a backdrop of a bigger black cultural moment: “We’re in a moment when people are feeling empowered about being black,” she says. “The hair helps communicate that.” Like the film’s hair, Black Panther’s costuming was an opportunity to infuse meaning and pride into the movie. As the film’s head costume designer, Ruth Carter, shared with NPR, the costumes, like Wakanda itself, needed to evoke a place and people that had “never been colonized, one that looked toward the future but was based on a real past. (Vox) In contrast to what African countries are normally prorated as, Wakanda is a bustling metropolis of vibranium-powered futuristic skyscrapers, racing trains, and soaring spaceships. This works testament to black empowerment. Black Panther is an important artifact, but it’s also, quite simply, a big draw for black moviegoers starved for this sort of vision.

[@tankninja1]

I thought the bad guys in Black Panther were some of the worst of the MCU. It was just another case of here are the bad guys with a plan for world domination and the hero has to stop them on a journey of self discovery. If anything the more interesting relationship in the movie was between T'challa and the M'Baku.

[@mr.gentelman6503]

Honestly, it would’ve been better if Klaue manipulated Killmonger. Like, think about it, Klaue is clearly insane so while yes he’s an interesting protagonist he’s not a mentally stable one but imagine if they gave him an edge of being cunning. Like, Klaue heard about an alien ship leaving a building (the one that T’Chala’s father was in when he killed Killmonger’s dad), so knowing this to be wakanda tech and seeing the money symbols hunts down anyone who could know anything about the people on said ship until eventually someone tells him about the apartment they saw them enter. Then we go forward in time to a younger Klaue and younger Killmonger (lets call it late teen years when he joined the marines). Klaue soon finds young Killmonger sitting outside of the army recruiting office and from there he basically convinces him to join the marines instead so he can be stronger when finding his father’s killer. You see Klaue in almost a father figure to Killmonger and abusing his position to get Killmonger one step closer to Wakanda so Klaue can get the Vibranium. So making it sound like it’s in Killmonger’s favor Klaue manipulates Killmonger’s “social status” to make him want to reclaim the throne, when really unbeknownst to him this is just to make it easier for Klaue to steal the vibranium. Anyways, obviously Killmonger’s fate in the movie is still the same and then Black Panther 2 is all about T’Chala taking down Klaue. TL;DR: They should’ve made Klaue abuse Killmonger’s trauma to manipulate him into doing what he did in the movie, making Klaue a lot more unsettling, the thought that someone so seemingly deranged can actually be so cunning, then leaving Klaue to be the main villain of the sequel.

[@carljohan9265]

Hearing people say things like killmonger (a name I will never be able to take seriusly btw) is "the first black villain", i cringe just as much as I do when someone calls captain phasma "the first female star wars villain". It just isn't true! Kreia anyone?! Only one of the best villains in star wars! On the black villain side, Mr T in rocky 3, Wesley Snipes in Demolition man, Samuel L jackson in Unbreakable, Django unchained, Kingsman. These are just of the top of my head, but you get the point. Also killmonger cutting himself for every kill, how much more edgelord can you get?

[@austinshaw7924]

Carl Johan I think they might mean superhero genre but idk,

[@carljohan9265]

@@austinshaw7924 They also seem to forget that Wonder Woman exists every time someone mentions Captain marvel.

[@Harpy-_-]

i preferred klaue's villain as once the whole i am your cousin thing came in i just knew the entire story from then on.

[@hillary5310]

The intro to this video is how every intro should be 😂😂 perfection

[@lesedi428]

I love this. Thank you for making this video

[@HigherEdGaming]

I like a lot of your conclusions But, we can very much infer that KM is Wakandan and his intentions from the first flashback. Otherwise, Klaue is really used so that the audience can become familiar with all of the characters of the film, from the council to Nakia and Okoye.

[@FullFatVideos]

But simply knowing he is Wakandan doesn't give the character the forward thrust he's sorely lacking in the first act. We don't get given enough information about him in the present day to care about him showing up. When it does become clear, it's great, but the movie flounders to get to that reveal.

[@awkwardantagonist3319]

Killmonger was such a boring villain, Klaue was the real villain and was killed by the half of the movie

[@Galimeer5]

The way I saw it, Klaue was never the main villain. He never felt like the one to personally challenge T'Challa. I suspect that's partially why IKillmonger was such a good villain; yes, he had a moral reason to do what he did, making him a relatable character, but I also think part of it actually stems from how we were expecting another generic MCU villain in Klaue, only to have a proper villain like Killmonger take his place.

[@zamarickz]

I bet there will be a bunch of people disliking this without watching because they think it is anti-Killmonger/Black Panther, when the actual message is, "Give us more of these cool villains! Don't kill them both in one movie!"

[@oisinmcphillips2090]

1:49 once again, it is proved that Father ted can be approved to any situation

[@FullFatVideos]

Stay tuned for a video essay on the milkiest of TV shows.

[@mobilechikane8574]

Not having time to develop the character is a big problem. There's a reason that best villains in the MCU are nearly all from the TV shows. Fisk, Kilgrave, Ward, AIDA are better than most of the movie villains.

[@animefan77]

If they managed to bring back Loki via time travel shenanigans- I don't see why they don't with Klaw.

[@thelivingsteel]

Just watched the movie, and I did feel a definite shift when the focus switched to Killmonger and the second half. I couldn't really pinpoint why, and what made it jump from "ok this is a pretty good film, but I don't know why people were RAVING about it" to "yeah ok this is actually epic," and I think this video gave me that answer. Klaue was a great character, like you said, but Killmonger was the right one for this film and it really shone when the focus switched over.

[@doxazo5512]

Btw, I’m pretty sure TDK would be classified as a 5 act movie

TrevorBOB 5 acts are just 3 acts you know. Everything has 3 acts. 5 acts is just when one act is cut in half.

[@doxazo5512]

Bob Pickleson, *2 EDIT: two acts have to be cut in half. And tell me how you’d split TDK into 3 then?

[@FullFatVideos]

Party scene end of Act 1; Harvey Dent gets burnt to shit- midpoint/reversal - Harvey in the hospital and succumbing to revenge whilst the joker begins to unravel the city; end of Act 2- the finale where Bats stops them both -act 3.

[@FullFatVideos]

If you want to create acts and breakdown a movie you probably can, but all 3 act structure does is tell you what the beginning middle and end is. When people think its a dirty word I weep a little inside.

[@doxazo5512]

Full Fat Videos, oh I’m not saying that, I just think TDK, is a bit more complex than that. (I haven’t watched it in awhile so forgive me) You’re saying that the ferry scene/Joker hanging upside down is the end of act 2, right? I agree with that, but I think that the Joker getting caught (pre-interrogation scene) could be considered the end of act 2.

[@ItsTheCatSpeaking24]

Thank you so much for respectfully discussing the flaws in the film! I 100% agree and felt that the whole narrative was quite convoluted. I personally felt that Klaue was much more threatening and compelling. In comparison, the narrative set up Killmonger to fail and his "win" never felt threatening to BP. I never felt Killmonger's presence throughout the film yet Serkis' performance made Klaue so much more interesting to watch on screen.

[@FullFatVideos]

Thanks for watching! For me i felt like they could have held a movie both to their own, so it's a shame that they instead stuffed them both into T'Challa's first movie. I'm not too sure who he's going to face next, but they've got a huge mountain to climb to make them as compelling as these two on paper...

[@michaeljackson4538]

no

[@woodzy136]

Klaue is driven by greed. He has no depth other than he wants money, and he wants it by selling vibranium. While he's definitely fun to watch (and Joker-like), he's mostly a prop - capturing him is supposed to prove T'Challa is a good king, and when T'Challa fails and Killmonger 'captures' and kills him, that shows to half of Wakanda, that perhaps T'Challa is weak and shouldn't rule on the basis that he was raised for it. So just by killing Klaue, Killmonger brings into the film issues of democracy vs royalty; justice vs revenge; strength v wisdom; means vs end; hard work vs inheritance. And then his political views are different as well, and in direct conflict with T'Challa.

[@woodzy136]

^ tldr; If the whole film only had Klaue, it would be a lot more action scenes, and a lot less interesting social and political commentary.

[@dfpl2554]

Grey T. Knight Killmonger was a villain driven by injustice. While I do like the idea of him and how he challenges T'Challa, he was executed poorly. He was only given half the film to shine, not enough time for him to grab the audience's attention before the reveal of his true heritage. Klaue felt better executed. He was dangerous and somewhat likable. The trasition from Klaue to Killmonger felt rough. If they had more scenes with Killmonger in the first half, it would have been fine. I would have preferred Black Panther to have only one main antagonist instead of juggling two important villains in one film.

[@livlyliv]

I was jamming to the soundtrack for the entirety of the video

[@DJAE12345]

My only problem with this video is that the background music is a little loud, it got quite distracting in parts like the last couple of minutes by drowning out your voice, other than that great video, totally agree with you

[@theaethor]

Honestly... Black Panther is a movie... it’s seriously not that important. It’s like saying _Brokeback Mountain_ is important because it has gay, white cowboys...

[@PomPomPP]

@Woodrow Pride Good for them right? Gays were killed, supressed and forced to be "treated" with drugs, because they were considered mentally ill, abnormal and sexually deviant.

[@carterhalo255]

Have him bump heads with other countries in the second movie. Perhaps Niganda from the comics, the USA, or maybe even..... Latveria?

[@shanerulez79]

Celestial Punkrock is Niganda a father African country

[@Pensive_Scarlet]

I think, in a similar way to how Avengers 2 and Civil War both served as an intro to Black Panther, the Black Panther sequel could combine those two sorts of plot beats to create an intro for Fantastic Four. You could have a young Doom early in developing his technological chops, and at some point this leads to an interest in vibranium. This leads to a wetworks op from Latveria against Wakanda, and Wakanda retaliates in turn, with Black Panther himself taking responsibility for the counter-op. Ross could prove useful as a sidekick, since Latveria is predominantly white. If they wanted to get even more comic-book-ish, they could actually bring back Ulysses Klaue somehow and have him transitioned into the MCU version of the formerly unrelated Klaw from the comics (I'd go with having him cloned from a part of his false arm that still had some of what was left of his real arm integrated into it, with the presence of the vibranium causing the clone to be more like Klaw). The Doom/Klaw partnership would be a great nod to the classic Secret Wars. Then, the film pretty much plays like a Panther vs. Doom thing, but in terms of action, Klaw performs as the main villain, and the final confrontation with Doom is anti-climactic: Panther is made to believe Doom's armor is vibranium, so he attacks with full force, only to discover this wasn't the case, and this Doom is just a Doom Bot! Then, one of the last scenes (maybe post credits) shows that Doom still had some vibranium, and this whole time the actual person of Doom was living as a student in the US. He sneaks the vibranium into an experiment he is conducting with Reed Richards. Things start to go wrong, and Richards realizes too late what Doom has done. He desperately tries to re-calculate and adjust for the vibranium, barely saving Doom, but not before Doom is scarred. What's best about this, in my opinion, is that it opens more doors for Panther to make guest appearances, and it could even open a door for some more classic Fantastic Four villains to be moved over into Black Panther villain roles in the MCU. Personally, I'd vote for Blastaar. I'd pay double price to see a big Avengers style deluxe Black Panther movie, with Blastaar adapted as an alien from the place where the vibranium of Wakanda originated from. They could do "other planet" and it would work, but imagine if they even went the extra step to establish the Negative Zone in the MCU!

[@carterhalo255]

shanerulez79 how do you mean?

[@CQBinsanity]

The only problem I have with the villians is that the transistion from Klaue to Killmonger was a bit rough, I think if killmonger is at least a little present in the casino scene it would've made it near seamless. I imagine Killmonger being almost like the head of security to the deal, spots T'challa, knows when to pick his battles and breaks away before he (and his ring) are noticed, not running away but clearly knows that this would forfeit his future plans, the story would then continue as the original does.

[@calbaxter1721]

Gonna go ahead and guess that all those people who disliked the video ... didn't watch the video Great essay