Black Sails 4x05 Reaction

[@gemelwalters2942]

There should be no surprise that Billy didn't care about the slaves. The pirates are in this fight for themselves, keep in mind they don't know Flint's story...they aren't fighting for some utopia to love who you want to love. They aren't fighting to free the slaves, the only reason this alliance happened was because the pirates needed bodies and they would quickly put the slaves back in chains if it served their purpose.

[@rhaenatargaryen8061]

meanwhile eleanor, rogers and the british are ACTUALLY actively working to keep the slaves in chains by protecting Empire. fuck billy, madi flint and silver on the other hand? much better people

[@Lady_Yunalesca]

One of the things that I think is very interesting about this show, is how Woodes Rogers gets so clearly classified as a villain. Because Black Sails is very much connected to, and plays with the ideas presented in, adventure stories told during a certain time period. Like, well, Treasure Island. And in those kinds of stories a character like Rogers would have been the *hero*. And it’s extremely deliberate for this story to instead portray him as a villain. And quite a fascinating choice.

[@gemelwalters2942]

No character is clearly "classified" as anything in this show. The whole theme of the show is men being pushed to extremes whether by society, grief, loss or love. The conversation between Flint and Roger's on the beach was included for a reason. They are reflections of each other. It's baffling how many ppl overlook that. He is doing exactly what Flint would have done if he had a chance to save Thomas.

[@Lady_Yunalesca]

@@gemelwalters2942 Of course the conversation between Flint and Rogers was included for a reason, and they are certainly reflections of each other in many ways. And just as Flint makes himself the "monster" and villain of civilization, Rogers too makes himself the villain here. I don't see why my statement contradicts any of that. Typical adventure stories like Treasure Island would have *absolutely* painted Rogers as a heroic character through and through, and the fact that Black Sails chooses instead to have him willingly embrace the label of villain and act like one - is very deliberate and interesting.

[@rhaenatargaryen8061]

rogers being a villain isnt a surprise when you know the kind of political messaging intended by the writers, actors etc. Its absolutely groundbreaking for the genre itself though

[@PohjanKarhu]

​​​@@gemelwalters2942 That is your personal interpretation. But the writing is where it's at. Look back at Ned Low for example. Would you really claim he wasn't a villain? He's brutal, bloodthirsty etc etc. So are so many of the pirates. But, because we get so much focus, perspective, understanding, personal motivations with them, they get humanized. Wheras Ned was just a bloodthirsty psychopathic force of evil. We didn't get anything that humanized him. Thus villain. Same with Rogers. Yeah, he gets more humanized than Ned Low. But, he represents England. And this show is from the perspective of the pirates AGAINST england. We still get very little personal and humanized motivations (apart from his mission), less deeper interactions with other characters (beside Eleanor), at least far less than with the pirates. Etc. Etc. He is overall not made to be as sympathethic as the others. Which is also why it's so effective when he keelhauls blackbeard. Writing wise he is written as a villain. Not as a cartoon villain. Not as Ned Low. But still, a villain for the pirates. It doesn't matter what the theme is. The theme still exists within the writing and storytelling. He is England. And the pirates is the side that the show represents. The show hasn't humanized England at all. The show has demonized England. Of course the man that represents England is the villain. Unless... the show portrayed him as just another victim of England or something... which it doesn't.

[@gemelwalters2942]

Yea Vane just wanted her to be a criminal for the rest of her life and raise her kids to be murderers as well. Sounds great, how could she have refused lol Like Eleanor said, from Vane to Mr Scott they all were effectively using her although I do believe Mr Scott cared for her. Flint questions Roger's because that's how she met Roger's so it makes sense but he doesn't know anything about their relationship. Regardless of how we may feel about Roger's, he's already proven he's not just using her. If he did he would have given her up to Teach for an easy victory. Not sure how you are still calling that into question now.

[@jjosifovic]

Woods Rogers the greatest threat and an equal monster to the pirates of this show. I love though how the pirates want to have a war with civilization and end it ,but they will have to destroy so many countless lives to build Another civilization that might not be better than the one that they r trying to destroy.

[@gemelwalters2942]

That's the point that I feel so many ppl overlook. A civilization made of murderers, thieves and r&pists...yea, I'm sure that'll be the perfect utopia. Idealism is great but it can only take you so far.

[@jjosifovic]

@@gemelwalters2942 n that is y I don’t find Roger’s as the villain because he is just protecting one civilization from another civilization. It would be one thing to free Nassau or just the Caribbean but to change the entire world….that is y I am more team Billy than team flint.

[@rhaenatargaryen8061]

what are you guys talking about. civilization is ALREADY full of murderers thieves and rapists. the entire thesis of black sails is how the "civilization" of these empires is a veneer, in many ways they are more uncivilized than the ones they dehumanize

[@troyjoyful]

Next ep will be brutal for them.

[@soniaiboyako4023]

Re: Eleanor and Mr. Scott, there's also the fact that she just now learned that she was lied to about his family's death.. I assume they bonded over this loss and that it kind of played into her feeling that they at least had each other etc. So there has to be this sense of "why did he hide that from me all this time?". Sure we know he was trying to protect them but i guess she would (understandably) be confused about how confiding in her would put them in danger. And i think even up to now it's fairly obvious that she knew his wife and daughter, they're not just a story she was told, they were actual loved ones to her as well - not to mention the fact that she just had Scott's death confirmed to her like she was barely processing anything lmao

[@gemelwalters2942]

You do realize the same view you seem to have of Roger's was highlighted in Flint back in season 2? His Captain in the navy spoke about the thing inside him that's unleashed when tensions arise. You're being too eager in dismissing Roger's as just a villain, he was set up as a mirror reflection of Flint for a reason. Also It's interesting that you, rightly questioned where the Spanish got their wealth from. You were right to, but where do you think Thomas got his wealth from? It's always amusing how these horrible things are dependent on a character's likeability

[@Lady_Yunalesca]

I mean...I think there's a big difference in talking about how the *Spanish Empire* got its money, vs one guy who was born wealthy. Like, of course the wealth that the Hamiltons had came from bad stuff happening, but there's still a pretty big difference between those examples, and I don't think the comparison you're trying to make really tracks.

[@nataliestclair6176]

I am sure like most of the very wealthy families in England that had ties to shipping merchants and owned their own merchant fleets that Thomas and his family got wealthy off the slave trade. The slave trade was very lucrative. You do make a valid point about shows that make the real villians into heros and the good guys The bad guys. I, like most people who watch shows like this, Sons of Anarchy, the Sapranos, etc we cheer for the bad guys regardless of the terrible things they do and boo the good guys. Wooden Roger's brought law and order to the Bahamas drove out the pirates, fought off the Spanish invaders and restored commerce back to the Bahamas. And he did so at his own personal expense that it drove him to bankruptcy and he ended up in debtors prison for several years until his debtors released him of his debts. He was then appointed governor of the Bahamas a second time and became a national hero in England. But I love this show. In my humble opinion, one of the best series ever put on TV. Being from Savannah Ga. we have a tie to the book Treasure Island. In the book, Capt. Flint dies in a tavern/inn in Savannah and that is where he gives Billy Bones the map to Treasure Island. The same inn where he dies is where Robert Louis Stevesnson stayed on a visit to America and it inspired him to write the book The tavern/inn was established in 1734 and was a hot bed for pirates and smugglers. It still stands to this day and is now a restaurant named, naturally, the Pirate house. While it's more a tourist attraction and the staff dresses up as pirates the food is really good and it's a historical building on the National Regristry. Back in the early 2000s they were doing some plumbing repairs and discovered a large man built tunnel that leads from the old basement to the Savannah River, where smugglers and pirates as well as Civil War Blockade runners would smuggler in their 'booty' to sell.

[@nataliestclair6176]

​​@@Lady_Yunalescayeah but how do you think these very wealthy English merchants and even Lord's became or stayed wealthy? The slave trade was very lucrative and most of them that had ties to shipping and or owned mechant ships also owned slave ships Just because some one had Lord in front of his name or came from an aristocratic famliy did not mean wealth. Many of aristocratis and English lords filled debtors prisons in England. And England grew wealthyin thier empire just like the Spanish did. Conquering other people and colonization and stealing their wealth. .

[@Lady_Yunalesca]

@@nataliestclair6176 yeah? I have no illusions about any of that. I just don’t think it’s a comparison that makes sense, to use an individual character vs an empire, as they are not really comparable things.

[@nataliestclair6176]

@@Lady_Yunalesca see your point.

[@energyturtle5]

Crazy how there's parallels in every episode. Billy telling Silver it's Flint's war not theirs and then it goes to Woodes Rogers telling Spain he isn't interested in the war between countries. In the previous episode Eleanor asked Max where they wouldve gone if they left Nassau and in this one Silver asks Madi if he would be enough for her if they left it all behind

[@helifanodobezanozi7689]

Great job ladies! The big guns are called cannons or artillery.

[@charleyMD17]

Eleanor is peak White Feminism in this episode. Mr. Scott was her family's SLAVE (as was his wife and daughter) so she can shut up about him protecting them at the expense of her ego. And it's not like she hasn't equally used people to get what she wanted. Eleanor's inability to self-reflect is her fatal flaw. The worst thing about Rogers bringing Spain back is that Eleanor's mother was killed in the last Spanish raid and their return has always been her worst fear.

[@kalandkarazor-el3088]

Just last episode you said I don't think we have to worry about the Spanish. So much worry coming Another fantastic episode. Flint and Eleanor are a great duo, both in the show and as actors. Silver getting smacked was so shocking but funny and he had a good point lol

[@ZChronicNebula]

I love how the show starts off after the Spanish raids on Nassau, only for it to build up to it happening all over again history repeating itself

[@turboklanias9626]

The war for Nassau begins!

[@turboklanias9626]

Woodes is not a villain. He is just a man with his back against the wall. A fugitive from England who was promised to return the gold to Spain to avoid an all out war and absolve to his sins.

[@heretichedgehog55]

"Woodes Rogers. He's really so different from the rest of us?" And then, there was silence. As always. I'm not surprised.

[@exposureeee]

The "big guns that stand on the ground" are called canons in English lol

[@jackson857]

You ladies should play Assassin's Creed IV Black Flag. A lot of the same characters in that game as this show.

[@juandesalgado]

Gals, you NEED to watch Shogun. Best series in years.

[@TsaiMagnumTV]

hi guys what mic is that

[@ElMestizoBasado]

The British were definitely worse than the Spanish. If anything out of all the Colonial Empires, the Spanish actually took care of their colonies since for example Mexico City (Virreinato de la Nueva España) and Lima (Virreinato del Peru) were more important than London and Paris at the time.

[@xxrkg8437]

You should watch The Sopranos

[@ZChronicNebula]

Best show ever!

[@isais207]

I'm still surprised they're mocking Rogers whenever he mentions civilization because for what he has done to the rapey thieves and murderers of Nassau. Man or a bear...

[@tonyharrison2112]

As interesting and fun as the pirates are they are most certainly not the good guys, or good people. Charles Vane was a sick sick man. Ned Low in the Show is closer to what Charles Vane was in reality.