Blizzard Just Announced Big Changes To M+ Difficulty In Season 4

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TIMESTAMPS
00:00 - Going over the changes
05:18 - Why these changes are good
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[@ianblackburn75]

15 minutes in with a patient explanation and a very clear graphic which explains the change on the screen the whole time and there were still people that couldn't grasp it. This was comedy gold, I loved it.

[@unhingedcrouton]

Nagura trying to explain the concept of sameness to kindergarten for 19 minutes

[@talisredstar1543]

Damn there is some dense people in her chat. I don't know how you dumb it down more than she was explaining. keys 2-9 difficult is Gone, wiped out. dead. When you step into Mplus, the first key you do will be as if you qued into a +10, in season 3

[@stuff4812]

way easier to just get rid of the comparison and say dungeons will have a ramp up in difficult at all levels with Mythic + being rescaled 2-10 becoming the new range of key levels to obtain portals and ksm with increased scaling.

[@MKnibbsy]

it was insanely difficult to watch how these people could not understand...

[@alyishiking]

Devs could have just said "This is a mythic+ number squish"

[@talisredstar1543]

@@alyishiking Because it is more than just Mythic plus. It says it in the name of the article on wow head. "Dungeon Level Squish." Mplus as we know now has been squished down to the point that old Heroic dungeons were squirted out the side, leaving M0 now there. New M0 is, now's plus 10. which leaves M 1's the equal to an 11 now.

[@zoerycroft4300]

@@alyishiking that causes more confusion bcs they arent technically squished, they're shifted, if they were squished, and +2 = +12, then +3 would equal +14, but it doesn't its 13

[@dobrev9012]

The difference is that for Myth trak now you need to do 18 with 3 affixes and in season 4 youll do 8 or 9 for samen myth trak gear with 2 affixes. All rest is the same ...

[@zumzici1234]

And we will prob gear up faster next expansion because at the start of the xpac, before m+ comes out, you can do each m0 once a week. After the change, those m0's will drop loot equivalent to a current +10 so we will start m+ off with overall higher gear ilvl compared to now.

[@cherylsnotebook6925]

For the people who push keys this is good and I like the fact you can queue for mythic zero. but...I usually only do quite low keys, below 10, as a casual player to practice and learn. I like to start at 2 and then with a group move up to what level we get to. For me this new system is not good because the jump from heroic (old mythic 0) to mythic 0 (old mythic 10) is big I am not confident to do it without the levels in-between to practice, especially with all the hate you get from PUGS if you don't do it exactly as they want. Follower dungeons will help with practice and we'll see what it turns out like but from this initial post, for me personally, I am worried it makes mythic+ unavailable. But also it is good for Blizzard to try new things and see if it works if its better for the majority I will just suck it up or get better :)

[@meecrob500]

100% makes it better for people who clamor for not liking the "timer" aspect of keys, because they will get better gear without having to do timed content. Is a big no changes (last affix moving to what will be equivalent to +20 aside) for people who are presently doing 12+ anyway. Good Changes Edit: all the people saying its going to dilute the PUG pool or just move the irrelevancy benchmark think that the group that want this type of change (the people who don't like 'time trial content' as they see it) are just going to start liking 'time trial content' for some reason because the perceived ceiling is closer, which is a silly argument.

[@CaiRobinson]

what i think people are missing is that this change isnt targeted at you if you are doing 5+ already. It wont change much if anything how you play. And that is fine other changes later can be for you.

[@meecrob500]

Exactly. There is a 65+ YO shaman in my alt AOTC guild that always says he hates the timer content and is always behind in gear. We have to drag him through to keep him up with us because the only way for him to progress at present is raid, and we quickly outstrip him on the gear front. He's the kinda player this is for so that he can continue to be in line with his gear week over week without us doing carries and him doing content he doesn't like.

[@mawiuz]

M0 which is the only difficulty without a timer will still give you a lockout so you can't just grind it endlessly. It's more for people to learn the mechanics and route of the dungeon.

[@ThoraktheGamer]

I read this news yesterday and instantly knew, that half of the playerbase would not get, what the changes mean... Honestly, Blizzard did themselves a huge disservice by wording it like this. It's a simple level squish but many people are too focused on numbers and names so they don't see the actual thing that is represented by those nubers and names😅

[@kenzieduckmoo]

Im super casual and really cool with this idea. The ability to queue for M0's is something ive wanted for a while, especially since i dont like the constant power creep that comes in late season when i just wanna piddle

[@dovydasdaunoravicius1836]

I am extremely curious how this will effect pre season and how going from m0 straight to +8 - +10 will feel. Also getting normal raid gear equivalent before the season starts might be a bit overkill

[@TrueRaider2121]

I feel like the chart should have explained it perfectly. I don’t understand where the confusion is 😂

[@zumzici1234]

Give those people an addon and a tutorial so they can understand the graph, lmao 😂😂

[@alexandercontos7424]

the thing is even m+ is gonna be "easier" because third affix will begin at the key level of 10 next season (equivalent of 20 current season) meaning you can farm myth track gear (8s-9s) with only tyran / fort and one affix, which I think is really cool change for a casual players

[@unhingedcrouton]

Key level is just a number!

[@Harrisomj]

Key level, as a number, is arbitrary. The only thing that matters is where we farm for the same loot. Instead of 20s, it's now 10s which SHOULD (lol blizz tingz) feel the same. Not complicated. The chat had me face palming the entire time.

[@MiliBichita]

I wish I had your patience

[@musikk83]

the picture says it all. just the m+ level gets labled new. a +20 now will be called a +10 then, but the difficuly stays and you get max reward, like you get now on a 20.

[@TheDragonazk]

When did you start Season 4 ?

[@danw6485]

There will be a small group of people impacted by this. While I have had no issues running keys above 20, I do have some friends and family that struggle in keys below 10. This will basically push them out of dungeons entirely unless they are being carried through for gear. I like the change but I do think it would be better if some of the mythics 2-9 were kept to help people gear slowly. But I understand that might only help a very small amount of people.

[@domperry4175]

Good changes. I don't know why they didn't get rid of the lockout for m0 though, doesn't seem like it serves much purpose any more. Maybe keep it for that first week where m+ isn't open but there's not usually anything else to do that week anyway.

[@Raika63]

People not understanding that numbers can be categorical or use different scales is wild. I can feel Blizzard's community team feeling so understood right now.

[@Busbymw3]

This is great for alts. Farm heroic in group finder to get going on a new toon. So much better than try to queue keys 1-14 in the current season. I hope the crest systems improves from the current season also, farming the worms crests was a bore.

[@doomwafflez]

What level will be required for KSM?

[@adamadamadam83]

They will be the same "Dungeon ratings should be equivalent to what they represent in the current system"

[@kowardlywow]

The number on your keystone is entirely an arbitrary number. They can simply give you the same io for a 9 that a 16 would get and you can still have a 2k KSM

[@phosarius]

I wanted to feed the algo but the density of chat was painful lmao. This is a good change unless you are a person who *only* did keys in the +2-8 range AND *never wanted to go higher*. I imagine those people will likely be happy in a world of queuing for Heroics & running M0 w/ no timer/affixes/mob count and taking it at their own pace, while still getting a decent challenge and commensurate gear rewards. I can't imagine anyone who likes those things but also didn't want to go higher than current +8s.

[@kellylowry6899]

So what about keystone hero, master, etc. What are the levels gonna be?

[@mawiuz]

Rating will be adjusted so it can stay the same

[@rhammpy4507]

Will portals drop for timed 10s?

[@adamadamadam83]

I would assume so

[@johnlinks]

Either 10s or 15s

[@kowardlywow]

Most likely 15s or 16s

[@rhondawyman3162]

I just want to know if I can get my portal after m10

[@nmc400]

Great for casuals. No changes for higher end though. Still gotta deal with tyran/fort bolstering sanguine afflicted.

[@corwen]

I expected Mr. Carl, instead of a name change, to just move house from Mythic str. 20 to Mythic str. 10 (new address, still the same old Carl).

[@Byhythloh]

"Noone was asking for this change"...listening to some chatters here absolutely killed my brain cells. This is a data driven change, based of player engagement with non-mythic+ dungeons and sub numbers. Most of the players I used to play wow with in early expansions stopped playing because they hated M+ and having the stress and toxicity of the timer system. In particular those with kids, who may need to step away for a few minutes during a dungeon. This move potentially brings back ALOT of old players who stopped playing, or moved to classic because of its more casual dungeon system. From a pure player inclusion perspective, this is a huge win. The more players playing wow, and running dungeon content, just means more time and investment into those areas.

[@justincowley2556]

i had to argue for 2hours with people in my guild to get them to understand. The frustration "shakes hands".

[@pghcrew]

M+ Score varies every single season. Top rating in S1 DF was 3630, S2 DF was 4071, S3 DF is currently 3969. S3 timers are free and S2 was decimated by Aug. If you got 3k IO in S1 and you also got 3K IO in S3, you objectively performed worse relative to S1.

[@shaneb1203]

If you do a mythic 0 itll be like doing a +10 right now

[@accepting51]

I feel bad for Nagura's chat

[@stuff4812]

they worded some of this post badly. way too many people think keys are losing their timers because they said M0s wont have timers when M0 never had a timer

[@Raika63]

You have the patience of a saint.

[@Naguura]

Haha thank you very much!

[@RigGames4]

The only difference is a name change essentially. It just means going from +4 to +6 is way more significant in S4 than it is in S3. You have some serious patience!

[@Demonblaze.]

Kind of a bummer that theyre taking the difficulty of 2-9 out of the game completely. In my experiences of leveling and gearing characters, which i have done quite a few times this season, there are times where i want to test my abilities on a toon i just leveled and got some gear for (whatever that method of obtaining gear might be, as in Dreamsurge or AH, etc..), where i want stuff to live longer than in a +2, but dont want to to take my character straight into +11s because, for one i know i wont get invited, and two i just want to test out the toon a bit in actual content where things live long enough for me to burst and some. I do belive that part of the reason that problem even exists is due to the fact that people are way too picky on who they accept into keys.

[@domperry4175]

The new mythic 0 should (in theory) be less toxic than current 2-9 keystones because there's less on the line - no key depletion, timer, affixes or trash count / route issues, and potentially the possibility to do one boss, take a break, and go back later to finish. So people who play in the current +2-9 key range will probably find it easier to get into a group for new mythic 0 vs a present +6 group. Once you get to the point where you can complete m0s comfortably then the jump in difficulty to keystones will be a bit more meaningful than it is now. However it's arguable that the new pug m0 groups will end up being toxic af and some players will end up having less of a progression path. I guess Blizz will be keeping an eye on it and will make that part of the decision making process whether to keep it for the expansion or not.

[@Demonblaze.]

@@domperry4175 I could see that, but theyre still only going to take people who are higher ilvl than the gear that drops from the dungeon. People think you need to pull 250k overall in an 11 and its honestly ridiculous. I get you want it done faster, but its pointless to me.

[@domperry4175]

@@Demonblaze. It could be that way for sure, but i feel like those sorts of players aren't going to be the ones that will be doing m0s for long. They'll probably skip it and move onto keystones, especially if there is a weekly lockout. I can't say I know what the current heroic / m0 scene is like. I know lower keys can be toxic but I think that's exacerbated by the mechanics of m+. I am hoping longer term, the people who are doing m0s will be people who like a bit more of a challenge but are less toxic in general and will help out players who might need it without it turning into something impossible to complete. Very difficult to say if it will turn out that way though.

[@Boo-QuiQui]

I never understood the average player was so slow in the head until they announced this. It’s really not a hard concept to grasp.

[@zoerycroft4300]

this is gunna be an indirect nerf to raid progress at the beginning of the season, because you're going to be flooded with gear you normally couldn't get until the raid itself opens

[@commonsense82]

So many people are not able to do +10's so they will never do M+ now. Not to sure how that helps them out

[@TacBlades]

Timer no affix take as long as you want

[@azkendarken4403]

because m0 will be m10 now so same loot, same vault, same difficulty, but without a stressful timer and without affixes, so its a nicer way to experience the dungeon and learn the mechanics on an m+ level for those people. 2-9 range you can fail all mechanics and its still easy to time, and mobs die nearly instantly, it doesnt really reflect a real m+ dungeon, so its good to just scale up normal-heroic at that point and get rid of it

[@kowardlywow]

I'm excited for this change and have been vouching it for awhile now. Not only does it make every io upgrade you get feel more impactful making grinding to that next key level feel better but for the semi-hardcore players this means the gap between world first keys and their PBs *appear* smaller. The skill gap is the same but it gives much more a feeling of youre close. Youre right there. It is possible to roll that key that might be a world first. And probably gives so much more incentive to play.

[@kowardlywow]

TLDR it's a more consistent progression experience and even gives some higher end players more motivation by feeling closer to the best of the best

[@nathanpriestner2690]

This change is for the people in Naguraas chat

[@skeezixcodejedi]

This is onyl fine if you're a m10+ player; which granted isn't super hard, but people are already choosey as heck about what peopel they accept by gear level and experience, and its much more forgiving now; this sounds really bad for the large people if people who just did m

[@FunkyToe369]

Huh? These changes are gonna make it even better for those players. Not only will they be able to farm up their old M0 equivalent BiS before even queueing, but there's no affixes including fortified/tyrannical so the mobs are gonna be even weaker than the current +10s despite giving same gear

[@skeezixcodejedi]

@@FunkyToe369PErhaps; so possibly m0 is roughly equiv to say m7-8 is now, which may be okay; still feels intimidating for a prospective healer - but hopefully the toxic crowd is diminished by this change.

[@Glajummy]

if perseverance was a person

[@solahara960]

The two things i think could be negative about those change are related to discoverability/entry level content. 1. For those who had habits to play in the MM+5-10 range, they'll be locked to make a brutal jump in difficulty from the equavalent of a M0 to a M+10 without middle ground. This could become a problem when it comes to discourage those people to even try/farm those dungeons. 2. Starting at the equivalent of MM+11 (New MM+2) Tyranical/Fortified will start with a much higher % to feed into, which could again represent a quite big jump in difficulty (30% of 100% Vs. 30% of 204%, which is double the jump in % gained by those affixes), which create a worse barrier to entry from M0 to new M+2. I think those changes will reduce discoverability of the MM+ content by adding more barriers to entry and harm the content by being susbject to more Exit points when it comes to motivation, which will affect everyone by having few new blood players to play with.

[@Grdian]

40 seconds reading the post, 9 minutes explaining basic math with visuals, 2 minutes ungaslighting herself because of wowhead style outrage, 7 minutes of explaining that players that do below m20s exist and that the patch will change things about heroic dungeons. Classic WoW video

[@KayoCity]

Great changes

[@azkendarken4403]

nagura viewers still trying to understand the graph KEKW

[@Squashcwb]

😂 braindead people

[@TheMoroaddict]

To be honest this is a great change...much faster and easier to push keys to desired levels and it will be much easier to get in a group of a higher key in a pug...atleast in a theory.

[@beartrax]

I'm casual and do 25's

[@Dizmalbrah]

She's delusional to think this is better for casuals... For the steeper difficulty curve, there are 9 less gear progression milestones. Not saying I don't like the changes, but absolutely not better for casuals.

[@PiratePineapplez]

so the real problem with wow is people cannot even understand pictures let alone read the announcements

[@DanybearPolakmc]

Was her chat high or something? the concept isnt as difficult

[@holycegaming4367]

so this only affects people who do normal/lfr raiding, and low keys. I wish you luck on the trolls in your chat.

[@luislandaeta6207]

thats a dificult chat aparently xD

[@Manoomu]

This is a great change for casuals and doesn't effect high end players at all (which is great). I just remain salty that as a heroic raider most of my gearing will still remain in m+, and that gearing through m+ is getting even easier relative to heroic raid. I just want aspect crests to drop from late heroic bosses, or the conversion from wyrm to aspect to be less expensive.

[@mattcyr2109]

Yeah watching this was painful, hearing her chat literally smashing a head against a brick wall XD

[@armedpenguin62]

Holy shit, looks like a lot of NA ppl in her Chat. 😂😂

[@Sunlightismypower]

It’s just a squish guys, nothing more nothing less. They did it just because people will not push a +35 next season, but a +20-22

[@ozankosar]

This was literally so cringe, watching Naguura explaining the system like a kindergarden teacher OMFG o_O This system is much better. This way you will be using LFG system to find group for gear farming. This is way better to gear up alts. BUT, they have to put an ilvl minimum limit, plus a raiting limit for M0 now. Otherwise it wouldn't matter at all. People should play Heroics to learn the dungeons then go M+. If this cannot be implemented in the system somehow, the main issue won't be fixed. It will be like just easier to get better loot without learning the mechanics and the "the guy with 5 guy, 11 children, 3 jobs fcked up the key" drama will continue...

[@elcanaldelargan8575]

Its a comeback to Legion, with Normal, Heroic, M0 and then M+ difficulties, I do not see anything really good here. Not that I do not agree the dungeon situation was a bit overbloated, but I do not think it will work as they want. If they want us to be able to 'train' for M+, they should allow us to run M+ both with and without a timer (with different rewards, ofc) but with same affixes and mob stat gains, then we will be able to train to time them. This 'new' (old) system its simply the same we have now, but without 10 levels of M+, or that we already had previously, and a bigger gap between low and high end dungeons, which will it more difficult to jump from one to another and progress, I do not really see an advantage.

[@mirrorlegend2482]

I think the people that have the Opinion that this system is going bad are the players that have a lot of bad experiences with players that get carried trough the Dungeons. I had that Experience myself and stopped playing alltogheter due to such Horrible Events. It Looks Great on Paper but in someway it will backfire. Godspeed with you all.

[@jb0222]

OK simple listen here.....

[@TacBlades]

So painful to watch naguura needs high iq in her chat . How can someone have the understanding to run a +20 but dont understand naming conventions and difficulty levels. This is great for me as I never have to run a timed content again for heroic level content raid and dungeons.

[@alyishiking]

WoW players crack me up. Number go down BAD

[@malarkey0949]

This change is bad because 20 is bigger than 10 so it won't look on my raider IO. Blizzard!

[@manga2564]

Number just change but difficulty and ilvl stay same and that means casuals will not be able to do more than 4 or 5+ key Changing number will not make them easy to time key. People will still wipe and leave grp.

[@mawiuz]

It actually gets a little harder for casuals that run current m+ below 10.

[@manga2564]

@@mawiuz Blizzard thinks if they remove the timer people be able to pass the key but honestly that is not resolve anything. If someone asked me I would give more time an extra 5 or 10min depending on a dungeon,for lower keys than 10+ after u pass 10+ key u r shorter with time for let's say -2min. That should help casual people to train themselves. Blizzard constantly makes mistakes when it comes to pve progressive content we have a true example LFR where u can rollface through raid not doing single mehanics and some of them u need to do it r far less punisable compared to nm, hc, and mythic raid. So players don't have any challenge.

[@jolinar4028]

The wow community has degraded quite badly... No wonder 99% rely on addons and third party sims, logs and whatnot :P

[@beaugrieve1913]

Everything we know now with mythic is going to the next step while the current mythic is now +15. While the new mythic level is the new plus 20. I don't understand why most people do not fully understand what was said.

[@alanperry9304]

I think this is a net positive for casuals. Casuals usually drop out around Mythic +5 to Mythic +10, now casuals may not have to do timed runs at all and still get the gear in range up to +9. I think this will take a lot of stress off of most of the player base but still allow the challenge for coordinated groups. It may also stop all the failed groups almost everyone accept the most dedicated groups feel.

[@rokman5000]

I understand what they're trying to do. It's fine. It won't really "fix" the "problem". The fact that M+ is an endless scaling content means there is nothing they can do to not make the heroic and M0 dungeons become obsolete. The nature of this endless scaling content is that the lower content will become obsolete.

[@nulian]

So you never play alts and noone ever plays +2 - +10. This should compact the people that currently do +2 - +10 to m0 and heroic random dungeon

[@k3ndo751]

@@nulian Not a single alt of mine has seen normal dungeons after reaching level 70. Same with heroic. I didn't even do M0 with alts and most of them are 460-485 equipped.

[@tommy4862]

@@k3ndo751 yea that's normal for people who play 20+, but people who max out around let's say KSM don't skip those steps and these changes are good for them IMO.

[@TacBlades]

There is a massive community that doesn't want timed content and is happy with heroic raid gear.

[@k3ndo751]

@@tommy4862 Ohh, don't misunderstand me, I like the changes. I was just making a different point. :D

[@3d1m4nd3r]

I don't know how ppl can not understand it. The only difference is that people who have played m5 or m8 levels so far now will not have the right difficulty level after changes. Either they will play the trivial Heroic level (old mythic and they will be killing things just by looking at them) or they will have to immediately play m0 which was the old m10 (too difficult for them and monsters will kill them just by appearing on the screen) level. A gap in difficulty level is created. So if such casual gamers exist (who play m5 or m8 now) then to them it may cause a problem. So its not better for casuals, that will be harder for casuals so its negative change and nothing change for better players .This will cause people who, because of their skills, were not able to play 10 and knew it, to try their hand at the new m0. This will cause endless frustration until we get out of this level. A negative change and not needed for anyone's happiness.

[@Katsukir]

But it’s not harder for casuals, mobs in m0 will be scaled at m10 level, but the dungeons don’t have affixes and no timers, so they will be able to complete a +10 dungeon equivalent with less leavers/ragers and still get the gear they are looking for. It’s easier for them to get used to the mob difficulty without the timer and extra affixes weighing over them, it allows these players to ease into mythic+ instead of the jump being so large. It just condenses the difficulty of the current content.

[@3d1m4nd3r]

@@Katsukir You don't know what you're talking about and you probably haven't had the opportunity to play with people at such a low level. Just because they don't have the time doesn't help them complete the dungeon. Affixes are the least of their problems, most of them are the biggest instance boss and also the hardest affix.

[@mawiuz]

@@Katsukir it will be way harder for anyone not able to time a +10 right now. Of course you can run +0 for gear but that will never take you near max ilvl so you're still gonna be stuck in +0. And since a +1 will be a current +11 they will just get beat up, leave and be frustrated that they can't time a +1. As soon as you start to run real M+, cause come on +0 is not M+, you will have to deal with an affix again. The change just forces casuals to get better at the game, learning to use their utility and the dungeons.

[@domperry4175]

I think with the gear upgrade system this is much less daunting than it would be previously. You can farm heroic (current m0) all the way up to 3 ilvls under the base gear awarded for m0 (even more if you can upgrade heroic dungeon vault rewards) and then you can grind that m0 to upgrade into / great vault hero track gear, a full set of which should make lower keystones much easier. I agree there's probably a gap where completing a new m0 could be a struggle compared to doing a current, say m+5-7 level key, but I think that's pretty niche and overall it'll be an improvement for most players who mostly do < +10 keystones currently. All this is of course assuming m0 groups won't be a toxic hellhole, but low keys are often that way anyway so not much difference there.

[@3d1m4nd3r]

@@domperry4175 As I have said several times before. This will cause a whole lot of noobs on m0 that we would never meet on m10. It will cause frustration for both little better players and noobs. The better players will have to drag the weak ones by the hand and guide them like blind men, and the weaker players will be frustrated because a level of skill will be required of them that they will never achieve. Everyone loses out on this. For weaker players, it will be a similar jump in difficulty to the jump in raids from LFR directly to HC. There will be a whole lot of people who don't know the tactics. Not knowing their characters and their skills. The buffer that frightens noobs away from m+ is simply removed.

[@Skagra1]

"The only truly endgame dungeon mode (M+) currently revolves around a timer. This means that other than new mega-dungeons, there isn’t really a place for endgame players who enjoy a more methodical dungeon pacing and gameplay." I can’t see this issue has been addressed, or at least some of the core points have been side-stepped. There are players (myself included) that simply don’t like timed content, but still want progression at end game. We remain in a position where spammable end game content with increasing difficulty and corresponding rewards, is limited to the M+ timed format. The only relevant change in this annoucement seems to be that the timer kicks in later in gear progression. The core problem with M+ for some is not that it is too difficult it is simply the go-go-go of the format. After the changes we would still have: The only spammable end game PVE progression content being M+ (timed). M+ (timed) feeling obligatory for raiding (not timed). How about a spammable end game format like M+ with increasing difficulty and rewards, just without the timer!

[@GouacheGaming]

It's literally just a numbers squish but for dungeons idk why its such a hard concept to grasp for people. xD and it just allows people that are playing at lower difficulties to actually feel a difference between the jumps between Normal, Heroic and Mythic0. This is a very good thing this whole system. It also means you can now easily queue up for parties for better loot rather then needing to find a party for it since Heroic level is now mythic 0. people not understanding the concept either have a learning disability or are trolling (not saying the learning disability as an insult either, just making an observation).

[@AirBnBrush]

But why male models?

[@wills.8662]

"Wai... weren't you listening? I just explained why...." Probably gor the reply quote wrong but Zoolander is awesome... And that scene was a blooper that was kept in the movie iirc.

[@francischabot1412]

The numbers thing is ridiculous since a 15 in Legion was about the same difficulty as a 22 this season.

[@kossua6554]

I like the 1-10 casual mythic. Best thing for solo players trying to progress without impossible timer and affixes.

[@hakamag]

omg these viewer's IQ also needs a rework" stay in school kids! 🤣

[@FunkyToe369]

Incredible change for more casual players and essentially no change for anyone who was gonna be doing higher than 10s anyway... huge W from Blizz

[@Dave-yc7dk]

How much easier do you need to explain it before people understand ? OMg that was frustrating to watch ... The Carl to Pete part was too much, I lost faith in humanity just a tad more :(

[@acphantom6437]

Finally. The methodical slower paced dungeons instead of mass pull spam fests is what ive been craving for a long time bring back those cata heroics. W by Blizz here

[@fiesbert5677]

They should remove timers alltogether. Timers should only matter for increasing the key past +1

[@ozankosar]

While talking about casuals, I wonder what was the avarage age of the stream during this record? I believe the ones asking these stupid questions and not understanding a simple chart are not the casuals you make fun of... 😒

[@johnlinks]

Good change. Good squish. Makes m+ more accessible

[@dadscapes1125]

The difference between 2 and 3 is nothing but the difference between 2 and 10 is pretty big for low skill players

[@michaelb9683]

lol

[@MrErick1160]

I do not like that change. It is back to shadowlands for of difficulty where it was super hard to go past +13. I feel it's much more rewarding being able to level up from 0 to 30 quite smoothly. And I think they should have kept this, it's the best change I feel they've had done in this expansion. Now you'll be farming endlessly at the same key even though you have an increase in skill, it will not reflect that increase anymore. It's like every key will be a new s curve. This is potentially the worse thing you can have in any leveling systems, perfect thing to make people give up. Who took this stupid decision?

[@athier5898]

her chat is giga dense, but the article is so badly worded. they are just shifting the scaling. they aren't changing the system. but literally saying that are removing the timer is just not the way to say it. as the timer is not getting removed. having the timer removed from the current 0-10 implies that there is some kind of scaling from Hc and m0. but this doesnt show in the graphic. That is why people are getting confused. its just poorly worded, plus ontop peoplle are not the brightest. look me a good 10 minutes to figure it out and i read it over and over, word for word, out loud and even put it into TTS cuz i have dyslexia. so thought i was missing something

[@Frostgaming335]

So no changes, just change some numbers like you press queue not to M20 but M10 now and so on. Not queue to M10 but heroic with no timer for now. I mean it's do not change anything, just some numbers in your queue table kekw

[@ronaldtaylor272]

Your community is "slow", they can't understand the graphic. How do they manage in the game...lol

[@thegrim_1]

I tried, but I just can't sit through her speed reading.

[@Squashcwb]

It baffles me how stupid some people can be. How do they not understand this new system?? The numbers of keys go lower but difficulty is the same...jesus

[@karolinarupp6445]

Bad for casuals. No possibility to gather Gear. And some will never again do M+

[@TacBlades]

Gear come from m0 and never doing timed m+ is great.

[@moflow99]

lmao, so clueless 😂

[@karolinarupp6445]

I am actually not. Because mit most of my Twinks i was doing +2 - +9 to get some gear. And many of my Friends did those too.@@moflow99 if you think cyberbulliying is cool - it is not.

[@karolinarupp6445]

you will get less gear and worse gear. And if you want to get gear people wont take you with them because the things you have to do to go +0 will be too high.@@TacBlades

[@karolinarupp6445]

Cyberbully.@@moflow99

[@xlorida]

These are the people you try to do high keys with and expect them to have the brain power to execute the mechanics 😂😂

[@sebastionmiller7281]

youre trying to explain this to a community of people who are addicted to being negative. Not to mention that they datamine literally everything which leaves zero surprise and excitement once its released because we've already read everything about it. Cringe community tbh

[@peymanshakoori4284]

The negetive part about it is that making the progress to the highest m+ ilvl wayyyy ezier . Some can get to max ilvl out of m+ with out ever have to deal with second afix never . And so whats the point of geting good any more . Every single trash bag can get to max ilvl now . Put the afixes on 3 _ 6 and it will be fine

[@mawiuz]

You clearly didn't listen or can't read. The second affix comes in at +5 in season 4. To get max ilvl you need to run +8 or actually a +10. So they will still have to deal with two affixes.

[@dimitaryanakiev8707]

in general advocating getting good in a PVE game is kinda ... I mean .. funny. I understand it for PVP but PVE is just .... default learning without even trying at some point.

[@mawiuz]

@@dimitaryanakiev8707 Let us see you run the mdi next season then mate :D

[@dimitaryanakiev8707]

I think you'll never care about seeing me - still doesn't deny the fact that PVE even a 80 year old woman can do it so ... yeh... it's for people that generally suck at pvp and prefer pve @@mawiuz

[@wieen99]

I was getting so frustrated with your chat. IT IS A GOOOOOOOOOD change so good

[@MashyAsura]

You didn't even take the time to read the post... Before publishing an "informative" post to youtube?... Whatcha doin girl?

[@doubledigital_]

wont ever make me play the game again

[@el_jamz2975]

So it’s gonna be going from fairly simple to insanely difficult without any stepping stones (per say new players)? This seems so aimed at end game players and high key grinders from previous. Really really don’t see the benefit at all. If this is the future for M+, then Ciao Mythics.. it wasn’t broken, it didn’t neee fixing, especially with a overhaul like this.

[@tommy4862]

Insanely difficult? I hope you're joking lol. It will be similar to +8. I met many players in LFG around +15 who still had no idea about dungeon mechanics or their class. So yea, if the super casual disc priest spamming flash heals can do +15 now, he will manage m0 in S4. It's positive these people can learn on more challenging scaling without being overwhelmed by affixes and timer.

[@el_jamz2975]

@@tommy4862 Right! I see, now that makes sense! Just blizzards dumbass layout, made it seem like 1000% more complex than it needed to be! Aight, cool, appreciate the breakdown! 😊👌

[@billjohnson2307]

I think this changes sucks imo just horrible. s4 gunna be trash