Blood on the Clocktower: Let's Run it Back!

[@bloodspatteredguitar]

In the same way the Fang Gu refers to "the 1st outsider *this* kills..." to make an element of the ability that persists through iterations, it would be reasonable to change the vigormortis wording to "minions killed by this..." rather than "minions you kill..."

[@masondeross]

The reason the wording differs is because Fang Gu specifically must be impersonal, because it is intended to not work when another Fang Gu uses it for *their* first time, whereas the vigor ability is meant to universally work every time and with every vigor mortis, and therefore doesn't require the narrowing impersonality; it works either as the impersonal or the personal. So the change is irrelevant with the Vigor, and just a matter of preference, whereas with the Fang Gu it would change the semantic meaning. It would work the way you write it, but it would make it more formal and in general formal wording is less intuitive and needlessly inaccessible to an average reader. The token is meant to be read by the players, every player taking the token, regardless of skill level and not just for the ST, so the most conversational wording (while being unambiguous) is preferable. So I agree that it would be accurate to change the wording, but not that it would be reasonable. It would be questionable, which is demonstrable by the fact I am questioning it now. "Minions killed by this" opens the reader up to needless tangential thinking about what that implies, which makes the game harder inversely proportional to experience level (new players have a harder time processing the intent than experience people who instantly understand the wording is meant to distinguish that if you were for example pit hag changed to a different demon type and then another player to the vigor, that this kind of scenario is the reason for the wording and irrelevant to the current situation, whereas a new player has to wonder why the creator specified it that way), whereas "minions you kill" makes it absolutely clear to the reader that this ability is done by them and doesn't depend on their minions or outside factors. I don't think we should strive to make things more consistent for the experienced player, such as yourself, but rather, aim for the most intuitive wording to the newest player without sacrificing accuracy (which is why the Fang Gu cannot be simplified in the way the Vigor wording can be, because it requires that extra formality). Is it going to be hard to understand the changed wording? I don't think so. Does it add a needless layer of abstraction that potentially increases the cognitive load? Inarguably so. Is there any benefit to justify that potential? None demonstrated thus far. I would rate the change with a weight of -0.01%. A minuscule reason to not make the change versus no discernible reason to make it (consistent wording across two very different demons being a neutral reason worth 0 points) leading to an overall disagree.

[@unitlonda4925]

The KZbin algorithm did a good thing for me today by recommending this video to me. Was a very fun game to watch!

[@maizen1335]

I swear Nightwatchmen pick minions night 1 literally every time

[@savybrandt8961]

Oh man… so heartbroken for Lorinda at the end 💔

[@rk9sbpro83]

Oh my gosh I feel so bad for Lorinda at the end there. They mustve felt so ignored all the way up until Jams says bye to chat. They really wanted to kill Amy by breaking madness and Im assuming Jams just didn't realize, cuz she was so down to kill Amy when Lorinda made the pick, and especially because the Harpy hadn't gotten a kill yet, I would think Jams would have honored that choice if she caught the madness break.

[@TorIverWilhelmsen]

Would not have mattered much since Harpy madness break deaths are not executions, and thus would not have saved JC.

[@csarmii]

She may have just mised it. But also it doesn't help evil, in fact it probably just hurts them at that point as that confirms Amy. Maybe if they broke earlier?

[@Whopperle]

The script title has changed from last week... Instead of "who watches the Watchmen" it now translates to "Who watches the idiots"🤔

[@arif_a_]

Wonderful change

[@ribbonquest]

So many wholesome player matchups!

[@4on4nam]

is that cough a sub/follower notification? part of the music? it jump scares me every time lol

[@bernard832]

A pie, even if it's a hand pie instead of a slice, would be difficult to juggle because it would start falling apart, but not as difficult as juggling a lamppost or an anchor. The hardest token to juggle on this script would be the lunatic. How do you juggle a swirl?

[@mistymysticsailboat]

The swirl juggles you

[@nelsonyiap81]

I missed something, why didn't Lorinda's madness break go off? Was it just too solved?

[@stevenclark5173]

At that point it would have served no purpose and only hurt evil for her to die. JC was still going to die and it would only confirm Amy to Ekin. Ekin was confirmed and so the only other pick was Arif who was mostly trusted.

[@emisor9272]

Question: Is it OK for this video to have the same intro as those featured in the Official KZbin Channel?

[@Crimson_Rogue97]

Given that Jams is part of the TPI (Official) team I imagine it's definitely fine for it to be used

[@matthewlove4082]

It's so frustrating when good players use bad logic to sus out an actual evil player. Like in this game when the Cannibal said they thought Ellen was evil because they'd picked her as the Cannibal-Lunatic. The demon has NO reason to follow their pick there.

[@AuraXars]

47:54 ben burns always said that drunk or poisoned cant affect the game, therefore lorinda has to be sober to make the goon drunk and thus not sailor drunk right?

[@Coldheart322]

The Goon is a bit of an exception to that rule. The Goon is looking for a player who picks them. It doesn't matter if the player is drunk or poisoned, because they still wake and pick a player. A drunk harpy can't make someone else mad, but they can still pick a player. Also note that a drunk player will still wake up, so a Chambermaid will still register them. It's less "can't affect the game at all" and more "will not directly cause an effect on other players", but will still register as acting like the character they are (or think they are).

[@Iejir_Isk]

Hmm... rules question? Night 2 with the harpy picking goon, if was sober via sailor, would you then tell the first pick they are mad, cause of ordering?

[@satellitesam2198]

Nope, both picks are made together, then the 1st pick gets told afterwards. So the picks are made, harpy becomes goon drunk, nothing else happens after that.

[@aligalad9907]

There are no tiwnsfolk that select players at night - this means if goon is selected by evil, they turn evil and cannot be turned back - am I wrong?

[@arif_a_]

There’s several on this script, and in play. The Village Idiot (that’s me!), Nightwatchman, Sailor, and even the Lunatic are all on the grim and viable Goon-flippers in this game 😊

[@Silvergrooves42]

Interesting rules question: Do you have to announce that a dead player dies again when the harpy madness is broken with one of the players being already dead? In some ways that would make sense (as you call out executions of dead bodies too) but you could also RAW that the only thing that really counts is the death of the alive player... in which case evil could kill just by staying silent... Wait that does sound overpowered. Probably not how it goes. Though now that I think about it - at the cost of outing both harpy and vigor, you can kill the harpy N2 and have a certain extra death every day by the harpy picking themselves every day? Idk , harpy is just confusing

[@matthewlove4082]

Dead players do not die again. When you execute a dead player, for example, the ST simply says: [Name] is executed. Go to sleep.

[@Silvergrooves42]

@@matthewlove4082 See I know that is the case for executions, but unlike a cerenovus madness break or a dead body execution, I don't know if you have to announce a "dead" body dying.

[@matthewlove4082]

@@Silvergrooves42 Executions usually end with the ST saying "is executed and dies", if the player is alive. But someone who is already dead cannot die again, so you don't announce anything. Same with a Harpy-mad Sailor, for example. If a sober Sailor breaks Harpy madness, only the person they were mad about is announced as having died.

[@Coldheart322]

With regards to the Vigor killed Harpy, yes it is powerful IF the Story Teller allows it. If you are "mad that player X is evil", then you must make some attempt to convince others X is evil. If you say nothing, then yes that is breaking madness. However the Harpy ability is "both may die", so the ST can choose not to kill. So it becomes a question of "should the ST allow the harpy to turn into a silent Psycho?". At which point, a good ST may allow a kill to go through, but may not allow every kill to go through.

[@acenomadic]

I'm not as bothered by token integrity as some people, but the disregard for it in this game bothered me a fair bit. Particularly with Sailor, who really needs Token integrity to function as a Townsfolk

[@evaos12]

It was a fun game but oh do I hate that you pick who's drunk and stuff based on what is happening after the picks...

[@TorIverWilhelmsen]

Ah, you are one of the "token integrity" folks - I think making the game entertaining is more important so approve of it.

[@stevenclark5173]

@@TorIverWilhelmsen I think that attitude is fine for an expert group like this that's also trying to make content for streams. I think it private games that can lead to issues where the sailor is essentially functioning like an outsider and not helping the good team.