Bloodborne Lore Extra: What Really Happened to Laurence

[@Dark_Sun_Gwyndolin]

Welcome back friend ! 😃

[@josebalvin6330]

Im quite happy seeing you back. I only found out about you because of the excellend dark sun gwendolyn. Can't wait to see more of you

[@billycaldwell39th]

#charredthermos Your series is truly a triumph pf metatextual analysis. Regardless of how many of the allusions and connections you present were 100% intentional, the analyses still stand on their own as being incredibly thoughtful, thorough, and super freaking interesting. You really should be proud, and I hope you'll pick up another project like this in the future!

[@TheCharredThermos]

Thanks, that's very kind and means a lot. In terms of new projects, "What Really Happened to Laurence: Part II" is in the works. Hopefully it'll be done in a few weeks!

[@TheHi-NoteFunClub-BeatsByMike]

@TheCharredThermos - (Pumps fist emphatically...) Do it Doug!!!

[@psychoamnesia1]

@@TheCharredThermos i really want to see it! laurence is such an interesting character, too bad most of this fandom don’t really think about him except for saying he was the worst person alive lmao. your videos and your interpretations are really amazing

[@TheCharredThermos]

@@psychoamnesia1 Yeah, Laurence is a misunderstood character, in my view. He likely has his own cardinal sin, but I think many of the transgressions the lore community have attributed to Laurence weren't actually his direct doing. More to come on that front.

[@Ilusen_Autumn]

The surgery altar corpse appears to be missing its legs. Laurence's second phase removes his legs, too.

[@BrownBrown270]

F that boss 😅

[@MrThemelloman]

Ahh this kinda strengthened the argument for me. Crap

[@Ilusen_Autumn]

@@MrThemelloman This fact gets mentioned in the follow-up video, so I was too quick to leave this comment

[@medallionstaywinnin]

I appreciate the deep dive of this video, but there are a few things missing here: Laurence's skull shows us the flashback of Wilhelm talking to a man, definitely Laurence as Wilhelm refers to him as such. Laurence would only 'bid farewell' to Wilhelm after he has found the Old Blood, since he is the major supporter of using blood, as the gane implies. So how can Laurence's body be the source of the blood if Laurence is the human who sanctions it? Why should Laurence 'fear the old blood' if he himself is the source of it? Item descriptions imply that clerics of the healing church transform into the most hideous beasts. Laurence is referred to as the first Cleric Beast, which means that he must have been a Cleric of the Church at some point, for him to transform into a Cleric Beast. But according to you, the Church wouldnt have been founded up until Laurence's death, so how is Laurence a cleric of the church if the church hasnt even been founded? I do not necessarily disagree with you, Just a few thoughts to challenge this view

[@TheCharredThermos]

I get into these questions more in Part 2. The main thing is that the "holy medium" is not the same thing as the "old blood." That's a common belief, but there's a ton of evidence that indicates they aren't the same thing. I'll get into your question about Laurence being a cleric more in an upcoming Part 3. I address it some in Part 2. But the main thing is the quote from Miyazaki about Laurence's skull serving as the start of the Healing Church. It, along with what I present in this episode and Part 2, indicate the Church was founded after Laurence's death, as strange as that seems. I get into this point in much greater depth at the end of Part 2.

[@HavikXIII]

​@TheCharredThermos I have yet to watch part 2, and will in like 5 minutes when I finish this one, but I wanted to point out one thing. Ebrietas is housed within the grand cathedral, and could still be the source of the blood used by the healing church. It's evident Ebrietas was found in the catacombs

[@TheCharredThermos]

@@HavikXIII Part 3 I think makes it pretty clear that it's not Ebrietas, although I don't set out to address that specific point. I'll just mention what I included in response to another comment on Part 3: The Great Isz Chalice is the best indication that Ebrietas wasn't the "holy medium" or "holy body" as it were: _The Great Isz Chalice became the cornerstone of the Choir, the elite delegation of the Healing Church. It was also the first Great Chalice brought back to the surface since the time of Byrgenwerth, and allowed the Choir to have audience with Ebrietas_ The term "cornerstone" is being used as a synonym for "foundation," meaning that the Great Isz Chalice was what led to the creation of the Choir as a faction within the Healing Church. In fact, the term used in the original Japanese text was 礎 (ishizue), which means "foundation stone." The Choir was established as a faction within the Healing Church only after they discovered the Great Isz Chalice, which was the "foundation stone" upon which the Choir was established. This occurred after (presumably way after) Byrgenwerth scholars discovered the first Great Chalice (likely the Pthumeru Chalice). Is Ebrietas the origin source of the blood that goes way, way back long before Byrgenwerth even existed? Possibly. There are arguments for Ebrietas, the Moon Presence, Queen Yharnam, dead Pthumerians, etc. But Laurence was the carrier (not necessarily source) of some form of mystical blood that the Church used as the basis of its Healing Blood. Part 3 makes this much clearer.

[@palatonian9618]

I don't know man, it feels like the much simpler explanation is that the holy medium is the old blood. This and a few other places it feels like the logic your arguments depend on make unnecessary leaps from simpler explanations

[@onii-chandaisuki5710]

They 'train' Blood Saints to be carriers of blood, no? Maybe the pure 'old blood' is hazardous to humans and it needs to be filtered through things (other people, in this case) to be safe to give to other people? And Laurance put the pure 'old blood' in him, since it needed to go into somebody the first time. Because the Blood Saints we meet do give us blood. But then, they've all been women.

[@antoniorivolta5067]

Forget about the critizime, Forget about the haters, You are a true genius of this generation of Lore Hunters.

[@sleepmaskcomix]

Welcome back!

[@Somebody_Maybe]

Yes he came back when we needed him most

[@giovanniprovost]

Well, looks like I'm re-watching literally all of this man's videos. Will enjoy it this time just like last time :)

[@benniewanders4388]

Actually, there are a number of types of hooks used during surgery - in fact, a VERY interesting thing about the outfit's tool set is that it doesn't seem to have much in the way of blades, let alone the shears/scissors that get used during most delicate tasks... and that's interesting because it implies tissues are being separated with BLUNT DISSECTION, which is something you do with tissue that's alive because it's MORE LIKELY TO HEAL, i.e. the ritual subject is either intended to keep living OR the tissue is being transplanted!

[@KILLRAIN42]

Well looks like I just found a new channel to binge. Good thing my job is long hours on a tractor with little more to do than listen to videos on and think about Bloodborne all day.

[@ghakal007]

thank you for Coming back love your Work

[@Αστερίων13]

I really enjoyed this video, but I disagree with some things. I don't think that Laurence is the original source of blood and died before the foundation of the Healing Church because first, we know that he transformed into a cleric beasts so he was already a member of the church, and second we know that before dying he summoned the Moon Presence and created the Hunter's Dream. Gehrman was imprisoned in the Dream with the doll based on Lady Maria, who at this point was already dead, and before her suicide Maria cared for the patiens in the research hall. This means that Laurence before turning into a beast created the church and the research hall with that peculiar elevator, so he can't be the corpse on the table. In fact I think that Laurence is the figure in the middle because he's wearing the gloves and holy shawl of the Healing Church but with a tunic and hat clearly ispired by his old teacher Willem, who can't be the person represented in the statue because he wasn't a member of the Church and would never wear those religious clothes. I think that the holy body found in the labyrinths by the Byrgenwerth's scholar was simply the body of a Great One. Lastly, even though Laurence skull seems to be the current source of blood a question remains: how exactly does a skull produce blood...? Yeah I know that Bloodborne is full of strange things but we know the rules of this world and in the game we never see bones producing blood, so how does that work?

[@TheCharredThermos]

We probably agree on quite a bit, but I either didn’t get into some of these things or didn’t explain my idea thoroughly enough, which led people to think I was saying something I wasn’t. As for Willem, though, yeah that was just a mistake on my part. I’m working on a follow-up that’ll address some of this stuff.

[@billycaldwell39th]

Skull bone marrow?

[@TheHi-NoteFunClub-BeatsByMike]

When Laurence broke off from Byrgenwerth, does the game specifically state that he left to establish the Healing Church - or is it more open ended, in the sense of: "I appreciate the foundation of knowledge and method, but the nature of research Byrgenwerth offers moves far too slow, either doesn't explore or expressly forbids exploring paths I believe not just to be viable, but that I'm convinced will result in the breakthroughs all of us are trying to discover, but that I'm sure (pauses... sniffs narcissistically) I will find. I haven't work-shopped a name yet, but I'm gonna need a hall for research, LOTS AND LOTS of chemicals, apothecary jars, and syringes I'll use to introduce lovely blood directly into my d*ck vein - (giggles contemptuously) silly Byrgenwerth and their cowardly indirect methods... I'll show 'em, I'll show 'em all (suddenly begins weeping...)... I miss my dad." Jokes aside - if there is no direct source of in game "fact" that tells us Laurence himself specifically founded "The Healing Church" immediately after splitting from Byrgenwerth - whatever organization he was building may very well have only become "The Healing Church" after the blood Laurence was abusing took its due toll and his ultimate tragedy unfolded. Maybe "The Healing Church" was a rebranding of "Sir Biggest Brain Laurence's New School College of Eldritch Truth, Virility Potions, and BLOOD BLOOD BLOOD" - and given the absolute horror Laurence chose to unleash, giving his organization a new righteously religious connotation to shoo all that evil behind a curtain was necessary. I think a question I heard recently (I want to say it was in a Tarnished Archeologist vid) applies to my point here (paraphrased) Exactly when did the "religion" of Christianity change from (originally) a faith in a particular divine idea/set of rules to live by as taught by Jesus - to - (further down the road) a faith in Jesus being divine/a religion not taught by, but ABOUT Jesus?

[@TheCharredThermos]

@@TheHi-NoteFunClub-BeatsByMikeYeah, that's kinda where I'm at with this, too. Nothing in the game explicitly says Laurence founded the Healing Church. It's just heavily implied by two things: 1) His boss name, Laurence, the First Vicar, and 2) The item description of Laurence's Skull, which refers to him as the first vicar of the Healing Church. But you're right: He's portrayed as much more of a prophet-martyr figure with heavy overtones of Christ. In one sense, it's implied he could be the church founder. In another, it's as if he's a divine figure himself who was connected with this cosmic blood. There's actually MUCH more information than I included in this video that indicates Laurence's dead body was central to the establishment of the Healing Church. That's what my new video project will focus on. His "first vicar" title might be somewhat of a red herring. I'm sure plenty of people will think that's ridiculous and a cop-out thing to say to make my idea work, but the things I'll present in this next video are really, REALLY hard to argue with. I'm very excited to share it.

[@TheHi-NoteFunClub-BeatsByMike]

@TheCharredThermos - and I am really excited to see it. Not to be redundant, but, DO IT DOOOOOUUUG!!!!

[@Alfred_bb]

I do not believe . .. I hope you are well, my friend. You have done a sacred work, at least for me. Thank you, and I hope you are well. Please do not delete the posts. I hope your family is well, my friend

[@jonathanworley9325]

It’s crazy to think that all of this was taken into thought, through Miyazaki while he developed this absolutely amazing game

[@TheDroves]

just started watching, but i had always thought it was referring to saint lawrence who as the story goes when burned alive said “turn me over this side’s done”. with laurence’s over cooked smoldering front and his pristine back, all storied out in a cathedral, felt like a touchstone of conception

[@tdo6679]

Thank you, Geoff for shouting g out this channel. I've been dying for a new bloodborne lore channel.

[@AbyssalSinner-st3rx]

Missed this channel very much! So happy to see you back

[@L0reN3xus]

Yesssssssssssssss !!!!, today is my birthday and that is one hell of a Gift !!!

[@Corsillius]

Hell yea! Welcome back man. My absolute favorite lore videos. So glad you are back!

[@Channel-ww1od]

Smoughtown sends their support with us, the humble tarnished army 😂

[@lillonerboi504]

This is an extremely intriguing theory and I almost want to fully buy into Laurence being the origin of the “healing blood”. But I do disagree with the truth behind the “holy medium” found in the tomb. Mostly just a difference in my linguistic interpretation. I think the original holy medium, the “Eucharist” was the paleblood, discovered by Laurence. This led to Laurence becoming obsessed with the Eldritch truth and the mysteries of the paleblood. He imbibes the paleblood and becomes the “first vicar”. Meaning he has become a medium by which the paleblood can spread the beastly scourge, and the first to do so. Perhaps this is why Laurence was studied, or dissected. He isn’t the Eucharist itself persay, not originally. But became so during his many endeavors into the tombs of the gods.

[@TheCharredThermos]

If you're down to watch the next two videos in this Laurence miniseries, I'll be curious to see if your thoughts change, especially after Part 3.

[@ceejayyvr]

incredible video, idk what else to say without it sounding like glazing but it just makes me view laurence as a real person, thank you for the insight ;)

[@nmfoxx]

Really great work-this is a deeply underrated essay that provides some really poignant insight into Laurence as not just a character, but a thematic fixture in the bloodborne lore.

[@Sithreis]

Watching hours and hours of lore over the years since Bloodborne came out yet still there are parallels to real life and inspiration from stories still worth talking about. Unreal how much went in to this game.

[@hinogamigo]

Finally, the master is back ! Can't wait to rewatch all your videos. And maybe a few new ones... Thank you for your effort and hard work. Truly remarkable and wonderful videos.

[@thechalupacabra3065]

Yeah the reason that the "axe" doesn't look like part of a surgeons kit is because it's not. The lengthened handle is reminiscent of a scalpel but the blade is far more similar to a buck skinner knife, multipurpose for disemboweling, skinning, and chopping through those stubborn joints with its broader and thicker blade.

[@TheCharredThermos]

I'm not sure if you had posted something similar when this video was originally made, but it's a great observation. Thanks for sharing insight on that. I was always baffled by that one item in the Graveguard "toolkit" as it were.

[@alundra11]

Nice, I thought it might be for cutting open the rib cage. I feel like I have seen it before in a movie or a game in the past.

[@ThePopeOfAllDope]

Got here on Smoughtown’s recommendation! Excellent quality!

[@alicivia4340]

omg you are back!!! I was telling my friend who is also a soul game lover about your videos today, and I am happily surprised to find that there are more new videos uploaded! Your videos really make me look at blood borne from a new angle (This is my favorite game among the souls series but it is always so mysterious and hard to understand for me).

[@kruaser123]

Oh my God a zombie!

[@jamescameron9133]

This is some of the most valuable lore hunting ever.

[@katienichole6905]

I love this analysis of bloodborne, I think it's my favorite take on the series. I love the details you've noticed in the attire and I'm so impressed by it.

[@TOUGHEYES]

You're back! I'm so happy. You're above and beyond one of the finest in analysis of From Software Games. Although you've only done Bloodborne, nobody matches your rigour or your incredible ability to determine the amount of real world inspirations. Good night, Good Hunter! I'll see you in the Waking World!

[@HeatherHolt]

Wow as a BB lore connoisseur I am impressed by the quality of the video and the content ❤ gg friend

[@KosOrSomeSayKosmo]

Nice catch with the Laurence Stern parallels! New subscriber, glad to be here :)

[@lorenfulghum2393]

REALLY glad to see you're back!!

[@jasonrodriguez1331]

One of the BEST series of videos I've seen on blodborne. It kind of washes away all the drama and illussion that comes from the religious theme, and the great ones. Regarding that, can it be that the eldrich truth its like knoledge incomprehensible that over time it won't be? Because if so, can we apply your framework of analysis of fromtsoftweare also to the eldeng ring? as the gretter will and the divine.

[@crackpiipe]

Damn i just noticed your stuff is back up! Welcome back to the tube, oh mighty lore nerd

[@diandrea4]

I’ve been watching ‘Frankenstein Chronicles’ and it’s so similar to Bloodborne. A man who has syphilis taking mercury tablets solving murder. Worth a watch ❤️

[@mst3kharris]

Maybe the axes were in case the body was too large for the bag. I imagine the would-be dissectors were most interested in examining the head and torso, so those needed to be intact. You could saw off the limbs for better portability, but that’s not a fast process. It seems to me a practical body snatcher would simply chop off the arms and legs and either leave them in the coffin or put them in a different bag.

[@austin.luther]

This is so cool! Smoughtown sent me, subscribed!

[@adamyohan]

I'm sorry what???? This is CRAZY good. Subbed.

[@juanogando1901]

I was the 1k like, let’s go! Welcome back man.

[@dominiquebonnett5933]

Broo im sooo glad you are back!!!! 🎉🎉🎉❤

[@Alfred_bb]

Please do not forget all the clips

[@L0reN3xus]

you should read herbert west reanimator from lovecraft if you did not already , it may contain clues relating to this or maybe inspired by the same things

[@szemyah]

if laurence is the holy medium that led to the foundation of the healing church and blood healing, if he is the source of the old blood, how can he have an adage with willem, "fear the old blood"?

[@TheCharredThermos]

@@szemyah That’s explained in Part 3

[@SuperAmaton]

I'm convinced Laurence was dissected and it is intentionally confusing what happend with his skull, but I have to see more proof that his remains/head is what was "used" to found the healing church.

[@jtj9609]

what about the cutscene? “i’ve come to bid you farewell…” he was alive

[@Wile_E_Cyote]

@@jtj9609 Bells are used to heal, resurrect, and call forth the dead. His theory pushes the idea that Willem, Dores, and the gatekeeper resurrected Laurence. The scene of the dissection depicts Willem performing the dissection, one of his servants reading a tome and another ringing a bell. It could be a ritual to ressurect Laurence. The real counter to his theory is Laurence's connection to Gherman and Lady Maria. Laurence and Gherman are stated/shown to have beckoned the moon presence in order to establish the dream. This beckoning is inferred to have happened the night Old Yharnam was burned as that night is mentioned to have a red moon or "paleblood sky". The hunters dream, already has a bunch of connections to the blood ministers who worked for Ludwig, and Ludwig established the church hunters right after Old Yharnam was burned. So that along with Gherman's relationship with Lady Maria who worked as a care taker in the clocktower which is confirmed to be a healing church project it seems almost impossible that Laurence was dead before the healing church was founded. The video is very convincing though. and that Miyazaki quote about Laurence's skull being the start of the healing church is very strong evidence. I Keep coming back to these videos for said reason but they just seem to conflict with other things in the game. Idk, I cant seem to figure this out. Laurence was almost certainly played a christ like role and was the holy medium/source of the healing blood and also could have been resurrected. But him dying before the church came to exist seems almost impossible.

[@patchwilliamson]

Tbh it looks more like a Gothic horror scalpel as opposed to a hand axe

[@kamilsroka4363]

With Bloodborne many things weren't finalised until the dlc, so there is a big chance of finding things that contradict each other. If I recall some footage of the game in pre-release state, shown by LanceMcDonald, Laurence is referred as player's character friend, then you have whole Kos, Ebrietas thing. It's hard to say what was intended, what is leftover of some cut plotlines, repurposed for the game we got.

[@MrBoywonder1985]

Utterly fascinating analysis! In a previous video, the connections to Henley and Stevenson were simply brilliant. But I do think Ebrietas is the holy medium - after all, we find her below the grand cathedral. History shows that cathedrals or churches were built over certain events, the burial tomb of Jesus, for example (church of the Holy Sepulchre).

[@TheCharredThermos]

That's a very popular belief-the comments on this video definitely bear that out! I think there's some evidence for it, but much more evidence that it's Laurence's remains. The next two episodes, especially Part 3, get into the details. You might change your mind after watching all three. Maybe not. It's interesting no matter what.

[@MrBoywonder1985]

@@TheCharredThermos I will be watching those next! You put a lot of hard work into this and for that I'm grateful to you. Easily the best game I've ever played and the story has haunted me ever since it was released way back when.

[@ct2136]

These are amazing

[@SM-nz9ff]

Laurence founded the healing Church so blood healing was already a thing so it can't be that the healing blood was derived from his corpse because it already existed as had the healing Church. Why he was in the tomb and got lost is the question, he was later found and brought back. Everything else is really good it just couldn't be that the healing blood first came from there as the Healing Church was founded with the First Vicar being Laurence, kinda hard to having a healing Church when you're not doing any healing.

[@Chainsawwed]

He got relegated to the filler boss role of the DLC so that others may slap

[@belial1821]

Think you have something’s wrong about Laurence. He’s in agony not outrage.

[@Hugo_Tate]

This is fantastic

[@gg2fan]

Maybe it's just me speaking about my own particular anxieties, but I think I would interpret the 'madness' experienced by the scholars who achieve insight into the arcane workings of the human body as another metaphor itself. The 'madness' occurs when seeing and comprehending a great one, which as you've pointed out are human insides turned into grotesque and upsetting looking eldritch monstrosities. What this could mean imo, is that the 'madness' is the deeply existentially disturbing realization that everything 'you' are is just meat. You're just a pile of meat, bones, and liquids. Absorbing the Eldritch Truth somehow forces you to understand your own body TOO well. I feel that way myself whenever I see gore on the internet. It's extremely disturbing for me to think about humans in this cold, mechanical fashion, shifting your understanding of what a 'human' is to something extremely de-humanized. You don't see a person with thoughts, feelings, and dreams, you see a tibia attaching to the lateral colateral ligament which is moved by the quadriceps tendon when it receives a neuron signal from the cerebellum. I really, really dislike seeing the inside of a body for this reason. I literally feel like I start to see and know too much. So either they learn too much about the human body and it causes a short circuit, where the brain basically breaks as it's forced to confront and comprehend itself- like dividing by zero or a computer trying to multiply infinity, the circuits get fried and it bricks the machine, or they totally de-sensitize and become psychotic and mentally alienated from their own bodies, which is what I figure is going on with Micolash. And the anatomists who get so into dissection that they forget this a human being, and treat it like a piece of lab equipment, which is exactly how Mensis is able to become so 'evil'- they're not kidnapping humans, they're acquiring material for research. It's just meat, after all. And the werewolf monstrosities and One Reborn could only come from the minds of people who have absolutely no respect for the sanctity of the human body left, because they've been driven to de-sensitized madness by reducing said bodies to objects of academic research. Maybe this is also part of their desire to themselves BECOME a great one- you can only handle the existentially brain-destroying knowledge of your own body and continue to function, IF you cling to a hope of 'evolving' an entirely new body for yourself, which is what we do in the squid ending. EDIT: Forgot to mention, this also works brilliantly with your interpretation of the hunters as dissectors and the beasts as patients. Blood-drunkenness occurs when hunters get too lost in the act of butchering beasts, and lose sight of their own humanity as they become absorbed in the blood and gore of slicing things into pieces. This could be a metaphor for these anatomists getting so lost in their academic pursuits, that they're willing to murder innocent people and defile countless graves because they're so desperate to cut something open and pull it's guts out.

[@TheCharredThermos]

_And the anatomists who get so into dissection that they forget this a human being, and treat it like a piece of lab equipment, which is exactly how Mensis is able to become so 'evil'- they're not kidnapping humans, they're acquiring material for research._ Well said. I think the madness of scholars and the blood-drunkenness of hunters are related outcomes. Encountering this forbidden knowledge, something so beyond our comprehension, shatters the minds of the scholars. It's a metaphor for encountering the internal features of the human body, as you've laid out well. And I think your edit perfectly captures the hunter/anatomist & beast/cadaver paradigm, especially as it pertains to blood-drunkenness. I think this is what Gascoigne is driving at when we find him mindlessly hacking away at a dead beast in the Tomb of Oedon. He's chopping up a dead body in a graveyard, as if we needed more symbolism for body snatching and anatomical dissection. "Beasts all over the shop," he says. "You'll be one of them...sooner or later." Hunters see people as beasts to be hacked up, and in turn lose their humanity to this brutality. They become beasts in their own right.

[@madrazz8888]

I haven't see your other vids so this may sound ignorant... but Laurence spoke to Willem, in person, when Willem was already old as shown in his memory, so he didn't die that long ago. So could it be that Laurence went his own way and researched the Old Blood, but in doing so, was infected by it and died. After which, Willem and his 2 men retrieved Laurence's body to discover it was tainted by some arcane source (the old blood) and proceeded to dissect him for it.

[@timtamzimzam]

it’s probably that they kept the same model so we would understand who the character is i highly doubt his age should be taken into account when trying to find out the timeline. souls games are also notorious for messing with time

[@timtamzimzam]

also all visuals in these games should be taken with „what they represent“ before any type of story or literal interpretation

[@TheStoneTargaryen]

I feel like the holy body would be Ebrietas, who’s also hidden in the cathedral, and also fits into all these slots? But I like tue theory!

[@harrysachz6395]

Oh wow. The Shandification of Yharnam. But what do they eat? You might ask. (Blood and people. They eat blood and people)

[@theatagamer90]

Guess Imma go through all the series parts I can find until it hits ~30FPS on PC.

[@cinemaspins2947]

I watched all your videos, but I could have missed it if you mentioned this little detail. If not, let me just say, the doll probably has organs.

[@MrThemelloman]

22:02 you know what else is venerated at the top of the cathedral and also inside?

[@travman1987]

I bet the Shadows of Yarnam is similar in concept to the DLC for Elden Ring that’s titled “Shadow of the erdtree” which is also based upon a secret that was hidden away. What’s also strange is that both have connections to a large serpent.

[@TheLeafar99]

It was in front of us the whole time, we just NEEDED EYES 😂

[@tainicon4639]

I’ve an interesting little tidbit related to your comments about the Eucharist. In Catholicism, it is not a symbol, Catholics believe that the Eucharist is actually and truly the body and blood of Christ during the mass the priest will trans substantiate the bread and wine into the real body and blood of Christ.

[@patrickempson7366]

I took a big ol Bergenworth this morning.

[@alechartman5185]

how could Laurence start the church if his death created the school?

[@dummbobqqqqq]

We really got no info why Laurence Skull should be burried in those tombs.

[@alundra11]

I feel like I have seen the ax in old dissections videos from movies. I think it's for splitting the center of the rib cage, But I could be wrong😅

[@ChrisHall1337]

Laurence is the Bloodletting Beast.

[@tainicon4639]

I’ve been interesting little tidbit related to your comments about the Eucharist. In Catholicism, it is not a symbol, Catholics believe that the Eucharist is actually and truly the body and blood of Christ during the mass the priest will trans substantiate the bread and wine into the real body and blood of Christ.

[@theamazingincrediblespider9689]

Does anyone have any thoughts on the Headless Bloodletting Beast in the Chalice Dungeons? Exhumed, dissected, head removed, and body placed back in the Dungeons similar to Laurence Stern?

[@psychoamnesia1]

this was a really interesting take. but i wonder about the timeline, we know that laurence took the "old blood" and used it, at least on himself, we know that he beckoned the moon presence with gerhman and probably others associates. so after that, he would return in the labyrinth for doing something and died here? 🤔 (i believe he died young but that’s kinda not relevant for my question haha)

[@TheCharredThermos]

Yeah, there's more on these topics that I didn't include in this video that will be in the next two Laurence episodes I'm working on. The main thing to omit from this video is the stuff about Willem. I was mistaken about that, and I'll address it in the next video. The whole "holy medium" vs. "old blood" thing was a huge point of confusion and disagreement when this video came out, so I get into more detail on that as well.

[@TheStoneTargaryen]

I follow the real life inspiration, but if the scholars found Laurence’s skull in ancient catacombs..how could he have been a student of Willem too?

[@strikeaposefilms]

So what's the history of your channel in terms of original posting and re-uploads? Your stuff deserves hundreds of thousands of views.

[@cloudsmiles1]

Interesting theory but as I understand Laurence was part of forming the healing church? It doesn't make sense that Laurence would be considered a vicar if he wasn't part of the church. I really liked your insights but it doesn't fit with the main plot. I haven't thought about the connection with dissection/doctors/body snatchers and Bloodborne. That part I can totally agree on.

[@Splunkmastah]

Thought I'd ask your input on this. Do you think that Laurence became the Bloodletting Beast we find within the Labyrinth? Bloodletting is said to have been used by early sufferers of the beast plague, and we find two versions of the Bloodletting Beast, one with a head, and one without. The head looks similar to Laurence's skull and even seems to have the same wound on it. In a deeper chalice dungeons we fight the same beast, sans head, having been taken over by a parasite. Some agree, others don't, I was curious to hear your opinion.

[@TheCharredThermos]

Funny you should ask. This was one of the more frequent questions I received in response to this video. I didn't address the Bloodletting Beast theory in this video because I was focused on the new lore discoveries, but I think it's worth exploring. Without giving away what I'll discuss in the upcoming 1-2 follow-up videos on this topic, the whole "Bloodletting Beast is Laurence" theory is really compelling even if only looking at the visual elements. The theory **can** work with the concepts I bring up in this video. The timeline is just really difficult to figure out. I have one set of new discoveries that I think helps to bridge the gap a bit.

[@ribbitlorde5099]

You deserve so much more recognition for this 🫶🏼

[@elijahouldhouse5706]

I was s e nt from slough town I'm here to watch all of the videos. Let's get it

[@Hugo_Tate]

Yeah I’m binging all your videos now 😂

[@vapelordegodeath2538]

THIS BOY COOKIN 🗣️🗣️‼️❗️

[@alexhodson6342]

But what made Laurence have his magic blood? Was his transformation just his personal change into a higher lifeform, beastial/mammalian, which causes other people who use it to change in the same way? Or does everyone who touches either the source OR Laurence's blood turn beast? Good video 👍

[@jtj9609]

what about the curscene? “i’ve come to bid you farewell…”

[@ComradeOgilvy369]

So at what point in the timeline do you suppose he transformed if it's his human body we see being dissected?

[@TheCharredThermos]

@@ComradeOgilvy369 I get into those details in Part 3, if you’re up for two more episodes.

[@ComradeOgilvy369]

@@TheCharredThermos I watched those, you're asking me to not take the events of the game literally at all

[@taylorjack2130]

FANtastic video

[@r3gret2079]

How morbidly fascinating! Edit: but wait, if that isn't Willem shown in the altar, then who is it? Anyone we know of? Anyone that matters?

[@flavianampoicean7997]

Mind-blowing, that's interesting!

[@marsmeadiuvat2439]

I thought the healing church was founded by Laurence after his departure from the Byrgenwerth, which happened after the blood healing was discovered?

[@TheCharredThermos]

Yes, that's the common belief-and it's what I thought, too, for a long time. Based on some things I present in this video and even more so in Part 2, this belief is likely wrong.

[@marsmeadiuvat2439]

@@TheCharredThermos Thx for the reply! Yeah I should've refrain from raising any question before I go through the whole thing, I just found the Part 2, since it's the most recently uploaded vid while this is the very first so I only skimmed through your uploads after this and assumed the Part 2 is still in the making. Will be enjoying that with a meal. And that was my 2nd time watching this video. The first time was the bedtime a few days ago when I was looking for something to sleep to on youtube, that's when I first come across you and your Bloodborne lore videos. I drifted to sleep at around the part of the graveguard and butcher attires, and had a dream that I was back in a school with the guy who lured me into playing this game back then. We used those tools mentioned in the vid to scrape marine life off the rocks along the coast and bring it back to school for others to study. Ty for the dream!

[@bartmongiello]

And there we finally have it.

[@agagagagagaggggagagg]

loving your videos, even if i don't agree with everything.

[@core-nix1885]

Mentioned on another video, but Byrgenwerth = Wyrgenberth = Virgin Birth

[@belial1821]

Laurence was based in saint Laurence, not Laurence sterne

[@PaszerDye]

6:39 where are these earlier episodes? This video is the oldest one on this channel...

[@TheCharredThermos]

These are all videos I reuploaded from my previous channel, and this video just happened to be the first one I added, so it's now showing as the oldest. KZbin doesn't allow channel owners to change that, which is a huge point of frustration. Anyway, check the playlists tab. All the "earlier episodes" are the Agony of Effort series (14 videos), Bite-Sized Bloodborne (three videos) and then this one plus a follow-up to it ("What Really Happend to Laurence, Part 2").

[@PaszerDye]

@@TheCharredThermos thank you!

[@luumix999]

@@TheCharredThermos thanks

[@Gurgamo]

They ascended and became Great Ones...

[@berry.juice3]

and how is Laurence a "holy medium" exactly?

[@carvedheart43]

Anybody know what the background music is in this one?

[@t6y6fihu8hy9jjuhi]

I like things with research and all, but you take too long to get to the point, it get tiresome to watch. I don't watched the other parts yet, but your point is, Laurence is the start of the Healing Church and they took his body from the tomb, there some things in the lore that disprove this for what I remember, like Laurence being part of the hunters punished on the dlc, an event that happend after the creation of the church, you used a teaser trailer to say that was the tomb, when is very obvious is just a dramatization, obviously the same skull is in another place in the final game, only the final game is the canon, also, for what I get, you talk about young Wilhelm on the statue after Laurence already died, you meant the corpse is to simbolize Laurence? This make no sense, we know Wilhelm was already old when Laurence, still young, left to form the Healing Church/research or use the old blood. Idk, maybe I look more into it later but I'm not on the side of those beliving Laurence is the bloodletting beast, I see no reason for his body be in the tombs, let alone as another type of beast, I didn't like that Last Protagonist interpreatation on this subject, too much speculation that makes no sense, like saying the skull looks like a primate when the claric beast doesn't, but ignoring the fact that the skull of the bloodletting beast is also not primate-like, is pretty clear that the bloodletting beast is related to the darkbeast and the acceptance of beasthood, while the cleric types are the opposite, that is why they are so hideous and more deformed/less human-like. Anyway, maybe I try to rewatch the last half of this part, and part 2 and 3 later, but the filler to get to the point gets really tiresome. [Edit] Another thing, we must use the japanese translation with caution, people ends up using their own bias translation to support headcanons that most of the time contradicts the base game lore, we must use it to have a better undestanding based on the context, not to create wildly specualations, this is not good for a serious study about the lore, Bloodborne translation was pretty good, all the points about the dissection and all, is very clear in the english text, we didn't need the japanese text to understand that. And another thing that I like to point out, the catholic believe don't commune with the corpse of christ like he is dead, the catholic canon believe that christ is not really dead, he resurrected, the commune with blood and flesh of christ and the fact that the japanese use this term, for me points out that they are talking about the same type of communion, that is the communion with blood that we see so much in Bloodborne.

[@aaronsalinas3854]

Are you saying the only time thry went in wad to get Lawrence? Not more than once?

[@TheCharredThermos]

Good question. That's not what I'm saying. We know the Byrgenwerth scholars had discovered some mystical blood long before Laurence became the "holy medium" or "holy body" that led to the foundation of the Healing Church. After all, Laurence and Willem talk to each other about being born of the blood, made men by the blood, undone by the blood. This whole "Fear the old blood" cutscene confirms they already knew about some powerful cosmic blood that presumably they'd discovered in the tomb of the gods. Part 3 spells all this out much more clearly, if you want to watch the next two parts.

[@willharper1326]

I thought the word Byrgen was Old German.