Bloodborne Lore | The Great Ones

[@SmoughTown]

Thanks to Factor for sponsoring this video Go to strms.net/factor75_smoughtown and use code POGSMOUGHJUL50 for my special Factor75 discount and to support my channel!

[@edwardconner3335]

Seriously brother, Charred Thermos did a great basically master thesis on Bloodborne about all of the game being a metaphor for 17th to 19th century doctors which is hard to question since it all lines up with the game including the brothers hunter. Who worked with burke & hare the body snatchers. Just thought you'd like to know, & please help get this guy more well known in the community he's criminally undersubbed and underappreciated.

[@HoyaDon]

@@edwardconner3335 I'll second edwardconner3335. Charred Thermos' videos are incredible. Complete game changer in BB lore.

[@S_Scaling]

I believe we are one of the Tarnished that went with Godfrey on his quest❤

[@S_Scaling]

That’s why patches face was on the spider It was a reference❤😂

[@S_Scaling]

Plus pennywise true form is a spider like being

[@glen3133]

Imagine the amount of eyes Miyazaki has to have on his brain to be able to contrive something so special and amazing. He and his peers are the true great ones here.

[@Blisterdude123]

Genuinely think one of the most horrifying things about the Great Ones is that even after becoming some incomprehensible cosmic god being operating outside any kind of seeming rational laws of reality, on different planes of existence, evolving into something completely mystifying...that even AFTER all that these beings are still left suffering the incredibly human need to rear and raise a child, to carry out some kind of animal parental instinct. One they can never, ever truly achieve. I mean, I don't know about you, but that clash of ideas is just haunting to me.

[@emanuelperez3595]

Miyazaki true form is just 1 eye like the one in lord of the rings. He is only in human form because he wanted to show what real game are about. While telling us stories that have happen in real life but only he witness as he is an agent of wisdom and an spectator in this world.

[@KellyKamikaze]

After playing bloodborne for the first time, and finishing it, it gave me the skills to play the other FS games. Afterbi finished them off, I came to the conclusion that miyazaki is my great one. I'm not just saying that because he makes awesome games, bloodborne literally saved my sobriety. When bloodborne came out, I had already had almost 10 years clean, a few months after the release, something very horrible happened to me. I swear if I didn't have that game to fill my idle time, I would of went back to the addiction life. I wish there was a way I could thank him for that.

[@noahraab2429]

You should start remembering your dreams then. It can get pretty weird in everyone’s head.

[@zeehero7280]

@@emanuelperez3595 He is a god of masochism and pain, in the form of one huge eye which is also 1000 eyes at the same time!

[@TheAlphaLegionnaire]

It may be worth pointing out that Lovecraft’s Azathoth is known as the “Idiot God”. Could be the seed for the concept of the “Vacuous Rom”

[@johnj.spurgin7037]

In a way, all of the great ones are azathothian gods. Rom is vacuous and draws that parallel, but all the great ones are masters of worlds that are called "dreams" and "nightmares."

[@abdullahirfan9991]

​@@johnj.spurgin7037considering Lovecraft mythos has a literal dream world/realm. You're might be onto something

[@brnecessities3335]

Also the fact that all the Great Ones have an almost animalistic, instinct way of reacting instead of scheming. This fits especially with this videos presentation of them and a tie to natural celestial cycles.

[@mojus2890]

​@@brnecessities3335all except one, the crawling chaos.

[@ringomandingo1015]

Rom, the Retarded Spider- according to Japanese Translation

[@LordDoom10]

I think an overlooked fact of the Brain of Mensis is how it is contained in the Nightmare. We see it chained up with spikes in it, up in that tower where it lashes out at everything (I recall it's glow affects the beastmen on your approach to the building too). But once we drop it into that black abyss below the building, it seems completely pacified. We can even "converse" with it using the Make Contact gesture, and makes no move to stop us if we attack it. If this was something made of the collective minds of the School of Mensis, I doubt it would need to be tortured to serve as a defender, nor be peaceful with us once released. If it is a collection of minds, I'd wager it is the minds of those we see in Yahar'Gul used to create the One Reborn. The One Reborn being the populace's physical remains, the Brain of Mensis being their mental remains. A source that certainly wouldn't willing help the School of Mensis, and be happy to be released from its tortured existence.

[@SmoughTown]

Not a bad shout actually - cheers for the thoughtful analysis! You are right, the fact it is pacified after being unchained is an interesting transition to ponder

[@1oddcrow]

I know this was 5 months ago, but I think your comment adds to the message that the brain of Mensis has "evil" eyes. All of those people were kidnapped and mutilated against their will after all. Very interesting!

[@TheFirstCurse1]

Well the Nightmare Of Mensis is clearly a, well, nightmare, as evidenced by the land, the layout of the castle, and the Spiders everywhere. It's not a normal place. I think that the School Of Mensis is the brain. They're chained up because they've sacrificed EVERYTHING in order to see "the eldritch truth". They can't attack you anymore once you drop them because they can't see anything. You drop them down into a seemingly bottomless pit and finish them off, denying them their dream and avenging every life they took to create themselves and the Nightmare Of Mensis.

[@billhasntbeenreal6143]

I am so glad one of the lore greats is coming back to bloodborne semi-consistently. I love the lore of this game.

[@SmoughTown]

Love it too! Thanks for watching

[@jamessalter6592]

I couldn't agree more... The fact we continue to discuss this game so long after it's release is a tribute to the great work of From Software...

[@Mojj2099]

@@jamessalter6592and here I am a new soulsborne player addicted to the game and it’s lore

[@Mojj2099]

@zerocool4159 that makes me so happy to hear! cause I’m one of those dudes who will go insane if things aren’t fully clear (I mean I like stuff left ambiguous it just drives me insane not having an implied answer lol) so I’m stoked everyone is still figuring out what the hell all this games lore means and it’s symbolism even 8 years later, that makes this a true masterpiece imo, this community is so great as well I would have never gotten as far as I am right now without the help of others lol!

[@samueltitone5683]

There’s a theory in the Pokémon community that the Pokémon Slowpoke is only so dopey because it’s borderline omniscient and is struggling to comprehend everything it sees. I think something similar could be happening with Rom. Perhaps she ascended without the necessary insight and became overwhelmed with all the new information she received thereby coming off as “stupid” to any observers.

[@Xerxes8282]

Rom is fascinating because of the weird duality she represents. She clearly has power. Like, a LOT of power. She's the second most powerful force in play in the game until you kill her, with only the Moon Presence proving her better. And yet she's seemingly been discarded as a failure and labelled an idiot. I really like your potential explanation, because it covers both sides of that duality. Excellent thought!

[@Scowleasy]

Right? Like how do we actually know Rom is an idiot? None of the other great ones can speak to us anyways, so that’s not a good measure. Unless one of them was shit-talking Rom to us, which would be hilarious.

[@patrickburke2187]

I think that’s likely. I think “true” great one’s have the ability to both warp and manufacture planes of reality, but great one’s “kin” don’t have the same ability to influence reality on a fundamental level. It’s likely that the Hunter’s Dream and, to a certain extent, Yharnam, are “realities” which The Moon Presence manufactures or otherwise exerts a considerable influence on. There is a dark and horrible truth about these “realities” -The Hunters Dream and Yharnam- however, and Rom “hides” that truth from us; it’s almost as if she suspends a thin veneer or illusion over the world, concealing it’s true nature, and when we kill Rom, the illusion is dispelled and the true nature of reality is revealed to us. While she casts an “illusion” over reality, she does not have the power to create reality; she did not fully ascend and attain the power of a Great One. It could be possible that, in the process of her ascension, the “truth” was too great and too horrible for her to fully comprehend and so she could not “transcend to higher plains of thought”; because she failed to ascend, she does not have the ability to manufacture a new reality, and instead has only the power to warp our perception OF reality. She warps it such that our point of view is more congruent with her own; it is a sanitized, less horrifying version of Yharnam, where the existential threat of Amygdala and Great One’s are more distant and abstract. She sustains and presents and a version of reality which allows us to be naive, which hides the truth from us, which prevents us from having to confront the horrible nature of existence, because these are the aspects of reality that destroyed her. This would explain her “vacuousness”; she came close to greatness, but was unable to fully comprehend or accept the truth. She is “impotent” as a great one precisely because she was not able to transcend to a higher plane of consciousness, and so she casts an illusion over reality, an interpretation of reality as SHE would like to see it.

[@Mavuika_Gyaru]

Nah the pokedex literally says that. The reason why slowking is normal is because the shelder on his head is injecting a poison

[@jacobhoover1654]

Rom is called "vacuous" because her pocket dimension is empty, it has nothing to do with her being an idiot.

[@willbunch01]

Could the school be trying to trap Mergo? The one “reborn”. Mergo died in childbirth.

[@SmoughTown]

Good shout

[@johnj.spurgin7037]

Possible, but they were beckoning the moon, it falls from an eclipsed moon, and its physical form possesses the dessicated body style of the moon presence itself.

[@eianfullerton1812]

Also, mensis is another term for a woman's period. I always thought of the brain of mensis like it was a cosmic miscarriage.

[@daphnedherbert]

I thought they were trapped by the sucubus(mergos wet nurse) that tricked the school. Basically they were trying for an audience with the moon presence but instead got caught up by the succubus, Mergos wet nurse, that entrapped them in the nightmare. But then wouldn’t make sense because the Pthumerian Queen died long before the school came about.

[@mobiusone6994]

@@eianfullerton1812 Would a better description be a Cosmic Mistake?

[@pieoverlord]

I think Rom's appearance is meant to represent her literally shattered mind. Her mind ascended but broke into pieces - represented most directly by all the spiders with her face. That's why her corpse looks so different from the version we actually fight.

[@smile4shaheen]

Perhaps that's why Rom is called vacuous. Because after she ascended, all that was left behind is a shell of what she used to occupy.

[@Rahnonymous]

I personally think Mergo's Wet Nurse is a manifestation of the students of Byrgenwerth who operated on Queen Yharnam's body. That is why it has so many knives, and when killed, finally gives Mergo and Queen Yharnam peace due to the "nightmare slain"

[@Xerxes8282]

I think you're on to something with the imagery and the result, but not the cause. It isn't Byrgenwerth who inspired Mergo's nightmare, but the Pthumerians. When they turned on their queen and cut Mergo from his mother's womb in an effort to get at the power he represented. Consider, the deeper you travel into the labyrinth, the further back in time you go. The absolute deepest layer of the chalice dungeons leads you to Queen Yharnam. This is a critical moment, some sort of beginning. It makes sense that this is when the scourge of beasts was born, when humanity (or it's antecedents) became so lustful for power/immortality that they murdered their queen's own child for it's arcane blood. When they gave in to the beast within in a futile attempt to ascend themselves beyond the bounds of their limitations. The very same pattern that the scholars of Byrgenwerth have replicated all these centuries later. The parallel to the Orphan of Kos is obvious. The nightmare that manifests in the Hunter's Nightmare is a monstrous, malformed fetus that looks, fights and sounds an awful lot like Gehrman. The hunter who, more than likely, cut the orphan from his mother's womb and stole him away for research at Byrgenworth. This fight also gives you the "Nightmare Slain" message, with the implication that you have freed the Orphan from it's torment and salved the wounds of the fishing village, at least a bit. Which then begs the question, whose nightmare is the Moon Presence? This is the third boss which provides the Nightmare Slain message, which you only see if you reach the Childhood's Beginning ending. Whose nightmare has been destroyed, whom have you freed? The answer is yourself. The Moon Presence is first a metaphor for blood addiction (consuming you and making you it's b*%&$ if you haven't consumed enough Cords), then for beasthood itself. This is why it fights, sounds and moves like the beast enemies. The Moon Presence is the player hunter's beasthood, come to claim them forevermore. But more than that, it is HUMANITY'S beasthood. In defeating it, you open the path to true ascension, freeing yourself (and by proxy the human race in general) to actually become an infant Great One

[@acannoli8287]

@@Xerxes8282This^ 👑👑👑

[@Rahnonymous]

@Xerxes8282 Hmm, first time I've heard the pthumerians be the culprit. I just always assumed it was Willem, Dores (graveguard set,) and other tomb prospectors that did it.

[@Xerxes8282]

@@Rahnonymous But it makes sense. The blood on her dress is indicative of some violence, whether against her person or in an attempt to save Mergo. And we know that Mergo was long dead before the scholars ever started poking around. So that blood had to have been caused by an earlier, likely Pthumerian, event. Also, when you kill Queen Yharnam in the chalice dungeon, you receive the Yharnam Stone. Which sure looks to me like the fossilized remains of the "stillborn" Mergo. If she still has his physical remains, then the scholars never acquired them. Only the Cord, which the School of Mensis used in their ritual. It's always made total sense to me that the Pthumerians became consumed by the prospect of Mergo's divine blood, just as the Byrgenworth scholars have so much later. And that they birthed the Plague when they chose to try and claim that power for themselves, by violence. Ripping Mergo from Yharnam's womb, and thus succumbing to the Plague of Beasts. Which, again, rhymes so well with events in current Yharnam and the Byrgenworth debacle. And that it is reflected so blatantly in the Mergo's Wet Nurse boss design, but also the name. A Wet Nurse is supposed to be someone a child is trusted to, to literally feed them in their mother's absence. It's a name that evokes a special and particularly intimate kind of trust, though it's many bladed arms suggest that trust was horrifically broken. At least to me.

[@zicrog7701]

@@Xerxes8282 this makes perfect sense and I love it

[@Cpint]

Woke up to an hour and a half long SmoughTown video, it's gonna be a good day boys.

[@SmoughTown]

Hell yeah, hope you enjoy it!

[@Rahnonymous]

Grant us eyes, grant us eyes!

[@alexterieur8813]

What about girls

[@CaymenLeP]

Imma fall asleep to one 🙏

[@RobWhite333]

And it’s about one of the best soulsborne games. The game that half of that title is named after, despite it being four to one (three if you only count dark souls)

[@belacqua4435]

I've noticed a little trend within the Great Ones: the less a Great One physically manifests in a realm of a dimension they are less likely to be physically vulnarable towards human attacks and in danger of being killed. In the case of Kos some in the comments have pointed out the ship wreckages in the beach area which indicates that people likely hunted this being out in the sea, and through the damage Kos received from the fishermen and the exhaustion from fleeing she ended up dead and her carcass ran ashore in the vincinty of the Fishing Hamlet. I interpret this phenomena that Great Ones bounded in one realm can be physically damaged and even killed - in the conventional use of the verb. Amygdala in the Nightmare Frontier and in the Chalice dungeons bleeds and is permanently removed from that area, you can also find the skeletal remains of another Amygdala in the Hunter's Nightmare (could this be the Amygdala that we fight in the Nightmare Frontier which might explain why there is the corpse in the first place?). The Moon Presence doesn't appear during the whole journey and only manifests physically at the end game if we defeated Gehrman, and yet we are subjugated under its power if we haven't consumed the three parts of an umbilical chord before. Then there is the Great One Oedon who doesn't appear at all and is only briefly mentioned in their dedicated Runes and Places. It is said that Oedon has ascended so far and beyond that the common methods of luring a Great One or consuming much insight don't work. In a way Oedon is a body without organs, a being that is everywhere, anywhere and nowhere, untethered and unshakled from dimensional boundaries. The driving force of a civilazation in the world of Bloodborne is ascension, and throughout our journey we read or bear witness how the people are and were attempting to ascend - with very little to no success: the Blood Ministrations were the beginning of the beastly scourge and the downfall of a civilization, gaining insight might be a much more promising method but you are likely to reach a state of absolute frenzy or fall into an almost catatonic state like in Willem's case - either way gaining insight too much breaks the fragile human mind and grinds any human reason to dust. But what does ascension to a being in Bloodborne actually mean? Not only the transformation of one's biological body (as we can see how the Nightmare Apsotles are a precursor of the many Amygdalas) but also to be able to bear the Eldritch Truth both physically and mentally. The attempts to ascend made by humans in past and present proves to be futile because human mind and body were too fragile for that heaviest weight, even most of the powerful Great Ones themselves are not invulnerable to phyiscal attacks in the case of Kos, Amygdala and the Moon Presence. The only being that does not possess these vices is the omnipresent, omniabsent Oedon who does not have a physical body that can break or a human mind that can lose its reason. And Oedon might be the closest to the Eldritch Truth than any being ever was.

[@santiagogallego8695]

If the great ones do indeed all origin from "lesser ones" or mortals (altough we do not know this), one has to wonder how did Oedon achieve such a state of being.

[@alrightletsgo5715]

i loved reading this

[@haruhi1316]

I can't wait to see how the Albinauric Bloodclot plays into all of this.

[@SmoughTown]

hahaha Lmao

[@UsenameTakenWasTaken]

Just wait until you learn how Homunculi are made. Or why you rub sticky white stuff on your sword for magic damage in demon's souls. Walk like an Egyptian, as they say.

[@ShirakiAkarin]

Just to add, the winter lanterns are things that look exactly like the doll and their brains are made of messengers

[@morgan145able]

That's a great point. Perhaps these pieces of the Brain of Mensis were implanted inside hunters? Messengers worship hunters and all hunters have seen the doll. Maybe hunters were the only ones who were strong enough, insightful enough, and expendable enough for the surgery to be a success?

[@He-Who-Died]

If their brains are made of messengers, then are Winter Lanterns actually personifications of The Hunter's Dream?

[@ShirakiAkarin]

@@He-Who-Died what they are is one of the biggest mysteries of the game; i've watched a lot of hypothesis about them but none has that much foot in, some say they are creatons of the moon presence to spy on other nightmares.

[@He-Who-Died]

@@ShirakiAkarin . That's interesting.

[@TheActualMrLink]

@@He-Who-DiedI personally interpret them as an act of mockery against the Hunter, a “personalized nightmare” if you will.

[@katherineryan7126]

Mergo’s Wet Nurse’s multiple arms makes me think of the Hindu gods, which are often depicted with many arms to show their great power and ability to do many things at once. Perhaps the many arms of some Great Ones show their immense power (compared to humans who only have two) and their ability to act on/affect many dimensions/dreams at once, similar to how many eyes may give one the ability to perceive multiple dimensions at once. Actually, it just occurred to me that in the real world, the number of eyes a human has already affects how many dimensions they can see. Someone with only one functioning eye can only see in 2 dimensions, while having two working eyes is what gives us depth perception, aka the ability to see in 3 dimensions. So, in the world of Bloodborne, perhaps having even more eyes, such as eyes lining one’s brain, gives one perception of even more dimensions.

[@jacobfreeman5444]

Having more than one eye granting depth perception is the result of having two similar perspectives woven together. Two perspectives allowing the observer to measure the difference between things seen by either. You obviously wouldn't see more with more eyes but be more able to accurately measure what you see. Be objective in how to interpret the details. I believe is what the people's of bloodborne are trying to achieve. Gain that objective perspective that would allow them to ascend.

[@NoConsequenc3]

the idea that you need 2 eyes for depth perception is a myth. Your eyes "shake" and that movement gives relative depth even for one eyeball.

[@onii-chandaisuki5710]

A 'third eye' is found in Hindu, Buddhist and maybe even Christian religion as well, in Hindu that's the red dot. A third eye allows one to achieve enlightenment, according to these religions.

[@platedlizard]

@@onii-chandaisuki5710 we also have a third “eye”, the pituitary gland. In us it is buried deep in our brain and can’t see anything but in other animals, such as iguanas, it’s at the top of the head and covered by a clear scale and can see light and shadow and possibly movement above them. So the idea of eyes inside our brains really isn’t such a weird one.

[@johnj.spurgin7037]

Yes, but can't some reptile eyes see further into wavelengths like infrared and such?

[@Trader_Spero]

Now I've never been able to fully grasp the lore of bloodborne, but I always thought the *children* or offspring the great ones lost wasn't so much their kids, but a lower form they possessed. Kinda of like how some people see their kids as an extension of themselves. So when they lost their children, it was the lower form they possessed, and in order to better interact with those planes, they long for a new *child* to take form of. But what do I know.

[@Rahnonymous]

A lot and I mean A LOT of bloodborne takes inspiration from early medical practices of 1700's England. Laurence, for example, was based off a real man also named Laurence, who's body was taken from his grave to be dissected by doctors for research. His skull was eventually separated from his body, and nobody really knows where it is today. Sound familiar?

[@alexsantiago3181]

I'd sorta agree because why would the Great Ones need a Child or Prodigy? Makes more sense that they solely seek to extend their lifetime and therefore extend their knowledge

[@Popirnot]

​@@alexsantiago3181primal need for a child always made sense for me

[@jstar3382]

The arms used by the winter lanterns for the grab attack also matches with the brain. It has a little arm on it

[@jstar3382]

​@Imperial-631 Thanks I've had it for like 7 years

[@JhonnyB694]

The good thing about Bloodborne content is that it's infinitely rewatchable, as I'm too dumb to understand what's going on in this game.

[@SmoughTown]

I don’t either haha

[@pingamalinga]

Just keep playing, good hunter. It all makes sense after a few thousand hours of blood bathing.

[@slaindesmond2574]

I have a theory the "Moon Presence" may in fact may be tricking us yet again. I believe the Doll may in fact be Flora and the Moon presence hiding in plain sight. 1: Gherman despises the doll despite its seemingly kind nature, which he would since he is its captive 2: it has eyes on the inside as seen when you place the camera inside the dolls head (nice touch) 3: It is completely unfazed with the player character becoming a infant old one and indeed immediately acts motherly. My theory is that it only sent its form to infuse us with its blood in effect becoming the final stage for our "rebirth" as a old one and gaining a child for itself. That's why it mourns all the players who died! As they are in effect stillbirths. The doll furthermore bleeds pale blood but not the moon presence boss is furthermore supportive of this. Sorry for the long discussion

[@joonasseppala1413]

I like this but I could provide a counterargument for your 1st and 3rd point: The doll was created in the likeness of Lady Maria who has been shown to be highly sympathetic to the plight and mistreatment of the infant Great Ones. It wouldn't therefore be far fetched to expect her to be motherly towards the just-born Great One (the player). Like you mentioned, Gehrman is a prisoner so it would be expected that everything in the Dream becomes just a representation of his imprisonment. It is also quite a popular interpretation that Gehrman loved Lady Maria who was also his, possibly, first pupil. From this information we could surmise that just like the player in one of the endings, Maria also dreamt but then decided to end the dream. Thus, at least in the eyes of Gehrman, she abandoned him. Gehrman does, in his sleep, beg for someone to come and release from his predicament.

[@Mavuika_Gyaru]

Gherman hates the doll because she's not Lady Maria. When the hunter becomes a great one, they literally kill the moon presence. And the doll takes care of the hunter because she loves mankind as is her design

[@christianthompson7915]

What about when you give the doll a hairpiece and she feels sad? Or how she feels free when you kill Margo?

[@Coldsteak]

the eyes on the inside of the doll is just a UV unwrapping error, i've seen it in many games

[@jonessii]

that's a nice theory, senator. you got any sources to back that up?

[@BaalFridge]

Nothing like a video about fictional unspeakable eldtrich horrors to take my mind off the unspeakable eldtrich horrors of real life

[@SmoughTown]

hahahah, made me lol. How right you are!

[@BaalFridge]

Somhow I made the same typo on eldritch twice but you liked it so too late to edit 😅

[@thebigm8192]

Freaking love how after all these years, we are still talking about Bloodborne. Amazing vid as usual king

[@SmoughTown]

Thank you my friend, means the world - as I was nervous about this one!

[@doubleh3978]

Ah yes, Bloodborne! You only need to unravel its mistery.

[@SmoughTown]

Challenge: impossible

[@CommieApe]

Id argue the One Reborn is simply the schools attempt at making their own Great One. The Choir and Mensis seemed to have differing ideas about how to beckon the moon presence. The Brain would be the schools last desperate attempt at transcending reality. Something we see throughout the game is the dichotomy of blood and insight and i think the One Reborn is a thematic synthesis of the two just like the player character. Its not a dogmatic adherence to one philosophy that allows us to transcend but a product of the various ideas of evolution.

[@baltoy7460]

Yeah, this seems also to be implied by internal data. The One Reborn is "Failed to be Evil God" internally, Amygdala is "Evil God Fallen Angel". So the idea seems they were trying to male their own Amygdala.

[@SmoughTown]

Yeh great shout

[@BWill985]

I disagree, throughout Yahar-Ghul we come across the Bell-Ringing maidens. Pthumeru women who summon enemies to impede the Hunter on their journey. In the cutscene when the One Reborn is summoned, the camera pans to the Bell-Ringing maidens. I believe that the One-Reborn is the result of the Pthumeru's experimentation, and maybe Mensis just kind of used the Bell-Ringing maidens as a way to protect the physical bodies of the students and Micolash, and therefore protecting the entrance to the Nightmare of Mensis.

[@BOBINDUN]

Imo it looks like a bootleg corpse ebriatas

[@bigswordapostle7214]

I don't remember the reason, but i always had this feeling that we're in the middle of some proxy war between Oedon and the moon presence. Mergo is Oedon's son in my heart.

[@robertminnie782]

I've been wondering the same... perhaps the Moon is jealous of Oedon, the omnipresent god worshipped by many beings in the game. I also can't shake the feeling that the Moon Presence must be related to Oedon somehow. They both seem connected with blood and the Hunt. But the Moon seems to be a lot more actively involved, while Oedon looms in the shadows and in the blood...

[@Brandonious15987]

I also thought Mergo was Oedon's son. They look identical.

[@robertminnie782]

@@Brandonious15987 😂😂

[@avocadoguro]

I love this analysis. Honestly, lots of video essays regarding Bloodborne are well done and thought provoking. Personally, I have always interpreted Bloodborne to be a story about the nightmare of womanhood and the great ones as physical manifestations of different stages in a woman or AFAB person's life. For example, Rom could represent how people who have periods are consistently made to hide that aspect of themselves from others. Mergot's wet nurse could be the bond between child and the women who tend to them before, during, and after birth. Amygdala, quite literally the part of the brain that responds to fear, may represent the horror of puberty, becoming pregnant, and childbirth. The Brain has always made me think about menses cycles and how they are essentially the body's way of telling someone they are not pregnant. Expelled tissues clumped together, fueling the nightmare of blood. This is only speculation and conjecture of course, but after hearing your section on the school of Mensis where only lunar cycles were mentioned, I thought it was important to also link the obvious connection between the moon and blood. Regardless, this is a great video

[@KriticalKatboi]

always thought the bird cages were an odd choice but mergo's "loft" and the wet nurse's appearance make things make more sense

[@johnj.spurgin7037]

The worship of the wet nurse and the linked symbology is an interesting take. The question of why it is an icon of malice, Ala the game files.

[@jimijenkins2548]

Could they be related to the exsanguinating cages in the Pthumerian labyrinth?

[@TheAlphaLegionnaire]

Never crossed my mind the clear link between the brain of Mensis and the sorcerer balls from ER. Solid catch there!

[@SmoughTown]

Thanks buddy! Just my interpretation ofc

[@citral3621]

Actually kinda refreshing after a lot of Elden Ring. Very satisfied. Always love your interpretations of the lore

[@SmoughTown]

Much appreciated my friend, just want to keep the channel fresh and alternate between Elden Ring!

[@battlericky17]

Literally in my top 5 games of all time. Always was a little puzzled about the gods. Read some lovecraft books that had a lot of the same energy, and now playing again feels so cool to see some references to lovecraft in it

[@SmoughTown]

Same (alongisde DS1 and ER hahah)!

[@Luhiner]

can you give me some books names ?

[@keabonhall2436]

@@Luhinerhadow over innsmouth is a story about race mixing and occultism and it’s extremely racist when you read into it. However, directly inspired an area in BB and From Soft’s way of adapting it is genius to the story to kill the dumb race mixing aspect. Well, species mixing is happening, but not in the way HP Lovecraft did it

[@Tomie..]

It’s been 8 years and you’re just realizing 💀 nice lol

[@battlericky17]

@@Tomie.. gatekeeper energy

[@Twilightingale21]

Just as a thought, it'd be interesting if the Moon Presence does indeed operate on lunar cycles, given that the School of Mensis is interested in it specifically. Mensis is of course invocative of menses--menstruation--which has a long-standing historical association with the lunar cycle due to their similar lengths. Is this significant? Probably not, but I found the parallel interesting.

[@mazmyth1799]

The winter lanterns also show up in the hunter's nightmare Near kos's boss Battle. Heading down an alternate path where you could find Maria's Rakuyo.

[@SmoughTown]

Quite right!

[@ryanmahaffie329]

1:16:05 I think a big reason for this sort of subliminal symbolism or understanding of dreams -> spiders, is because of dreamcatchers. They look similar to a spider's web, and at least here in rural USA, where I grew up around a lot of native influence, our brains can conflate the symbols VERY easily. it's a loop of logic and symbolism that sort of just "makes sense" to us humans. Also regardless of where we are, there are spiders, and we tend to see them at night too. I almost imagine the spiders that we see, are also our character's brain's (who is not a Great One yet) attempt to comprehend that's still beyond us. Or maybe it's a reflection of the acolytes that are changing's limited perspective? They see a glimpse or witness and Amygdala or something similar and in an attempt to change they can only grasp at forms they fully "know" first. Maybe it's Originator -> amygdala surrogate (for that species mind you, other creatures throughout the cosmos would have their own symbols to draw from) -> proper amygdala? I wonder to what degree the physical and psychological aspects of someone who's currently ascending, affects the ultimate result?

[@TheButterWombat]

There's something I always like to point out about Kos and the Fishing Hamlet that I haven't seen covered in pretty much any video. But if you pay close attention to the level design of the hamlet you'll noticed strange skeleton's all around, especially at the entrance to the level near the fishing boats. Most people might not recognize them and i once saw someone say they looked like snakes, but they're specifically whale skeletons! And considering the kinds of spears the transformed villagers use are the kind you'd use to spear a whale i always assumed it was specifically a whaling village, which fits nicely with your section of the video that talks about a village being blessed with a whale corpse. My personal interpretation of the Fishing Hamlet is they accidentally killed Kos's physical form themselves, mistaking her for a whale, spearing her and injuring her badly enough that she became beached, and then turning to worship her body when it washed up filled with apparently bountiful and edible slugs I also always theorized that Mergo is the child of Oedon specifically, as he's entirely without form and exists as voice or sound, and that the wetnurse was a sort of thief who snatched the child away. And now thinking on its in-file name as demon of death and darkness it fits in with the theme of death in childbirth, the wetnurse, who is death, snatched away a newborn child from its mother and prevents it from being with its father. As for the shadows, considering Yharnam's body in the catacomb is shackled it could be they are less body guards and more wardens. Another interesting note on Yharnam, which ties to the death theme, is the item you get off her in the chalice dungeon the "Yharnam Stone" Look closely at the item and you'll see it looks vaguely fetus shaped. I always assumed she had rare type ectopic pregnancy resulting in a "Lithopedion" a stone baby. The fetus forms outside the uterus, where it cannot survive, but grows large enough it cannot be reabsorbed and instead calcifies. As a full Great One Mergo does not require a body, but if the physical part did form like that it would of certainly condemned Yharnam herself to a painful death[her lower stomach IS covered in blood after all] No wonder she's so mad in her boss fight I also always assumed the Amygdala's acted as a hive mind, no idea why, that just always made sense to me.

[@beastren]

10 months late lol, but i think you hit the nail on the head with this one. agree 200%. i thought oeden being mergo's father was the popular consensus since wasn't it partly his blood found by the healing church in the labyrinth, that they then went on to use? so it would place oeden in proximity to queen yharnam and the pthumerians....

[@CommieApe]

What do you think about Yharnam during the hunt being its own form of nightmare? The gradients of reality topic is fascinating because its like where does the "real world" even exist at. Also the connections between the wet nurse and pthumeru are brilliant.

[@SmoughTown]

I do feel at least the dream bleeds into the waking world during the hunt

[@rangda_prime]

What makes you think the "real world" deserves special status? It is merely the plane on which humans live. it is just one of many, and none is more "real" than the other. To quote Lovecraft himself: "Life is but a series of images in the brain, with no difference betwist those seen when waking and those seen when dreaming." And without Lovecraft, no Bloodborne.

[@sarinasargeant2087]

@@rangda_prime i believe the only thing that makes the "real" world special, is that the Great Ones cannot directly manipulate it, at least not easily. They always seem to need to get emisarys, or surrogates, or avatars to mess with it. Its only when they notice this realm they cannot directly touch that things in the world become affected.

[@SmoughTown]

@@sarinasargeant2087 Yeh i'd agree with that

[@alexterieur8813]

@@sarinasargeant2087ind of like the Outer Gods in Elden Ring

[@EldenLord.]

Bloodborne is the greatest game of all time period.

[@grigorikarpin]

@43:45 - I always interpreted the "Madmen toil surreptitiously in rituals to beckon the moon. Uncover their secrets." was in reference to Laurence and Gehrman, because the note is in Yarhargul so I interpret this as being written by the School of Mensis or their servants, and they want to stop whoever is trying to summon the moon. As they want to contact Mergo, and the Moon Presence is in many ways trying to stop this from happening by empowering hunters to live forever in the nightmare. The hunt isn't over until you kill Mergo's Wetnurse, which means that the moon presence wanted that to occur. So, Laurence and Gehrman are the madmen toiling surreptitiously to beckon the moon. Just my two cents. Really happy to see you move onto Bloodborne lore! Great video

[@RuijsNL]

The layered/stacked reality is funny to me because it's what I thought Elden Ring was using when first playing through it. So many different civilizations divided by a lot of verticality

[@skeletorgames8641]

And Lordan from Dark Souls series in general, but the Dark Souls 2 kingdoms specifically.

[@Souldrainr]

I like how at this point post-release we as viewers have heard pretty much all there is to hear about bloodborne lore but we still obsessively watch these videos.

[@jouglas6695]

Great video once again. Thanks for making these. A few things that I stood out to me. 1. I always understood that Rom is not creating an illusion, but is in fact putting up a bulwark that keeps the dream world further away. When we kill Rom, the moon is free to descend and the line between reality and nightmare is obscured. 2. I always interpreted the Wet Nurse as a manifestation or servant of Odeon. The term “wet nurse” calls back to the idea of someone who can give a child nutrients that it’s natural mother (in this case Yarnham) cannot. Formless Odeon is trying to elevate its human-great one child. Looking forward to the next video!

[@Vidaxer]

My interpretation of the Wet Nurse is that it's the leader so to speak of the Shadows of Yharnam. Both of them wear black cloaks and expertly wield swords. Also it makes sense that if the Shadows protect Queen Yharnam than the Wet Nurse as the leader or most powerful of their kind to protect the queens child.

[@platedlizard]

An interesting fact is that we really do have a “third eye” in our brain, the pituitary gland, which regulates our circadian cycle (as well as a number of other things) in our case the pituitary gland can’t actually see things and has to rely on signals from our eyes. But in other animals the pituitary gland is much closer to the surface. Iguanas, for example, have their pituitary gland at the top of their heads and they are covered by a clear scale. While the gland can’t see in great detail it is able to see light, dark, and likely movement. It probably helps them locate good sunlight for sunning (important for a large species of arboreal lizard) and predators swooping down in them from above. It literally lets them see from a different dimension than their two regular eyes.

[@AlhazredsGamingGoo]

20:00 One idea I've always thought was properly ghoulish for this setting is that Kos was actually trying to get around the "every Great One loses its child" problem by never giving birth, but that plan hit a snag when she herself died and washed up on the beach, leaving the Byrgenwerth scholars free to cut her child out. Maybe it's even _why_ she died; it's actually kinda weird for a Great One to just keel over dead rather than being hunted and killed, unless the part about how she washed up dead on the beach is somehow embellished and the hunters actually went out on a boat and speared her like a whale or somesuch. 35:00 There was actually an idea that went around at one point that there are random-ass eyes all over the Nightmare of Mensis on the walls because Kos actually did answer Micolash's prayers to be granted eyes, and when we see Kos' body later, she doesn't _have_ eyes, so she had no idea where to put them. It doesn't really jive well with a lot of how the lore has been parsed out over the years but I liked it because my preferred reading of Bloodborne is that that line "the Great Ones are sympathetic in spirit and will answer when called upon" really does mean a more casual/modern take on "sympathy" (although this probably wasn't the intent at all, especially considering that's the Third Cord that references Flora, who very clearly does _not_ have that kind of sympathy for Gehrman,) and so the twist the lore puts on Lovecraft is that otherworldly, advanced, unknowable beings can sometimes be actively _benevolent_ instead of apathetic towards lowly humans. The problem being that noble intent doesn't solve the whole "unknowable" part, which turns out to cut both ways, and they may do even more harm than if they were actively malevolent, let alone apathetic. My preferred reading of specifically the Nightmare of Mensis/the brain is that the "of" in "Nightmare of Mensis" and "Brain of Mensis" doesn't imply "made by" "or belongs to us because it was gifted" but rather "discovered and laid claim to." Micolash and his followers are _long_ dead in the waking world, while Rom may have been blocking the ritual from calling down the red moon, them getting into the dreamlands can't have been part of the ritual itself (it's possible they only _look_ long dead because they only just died when the red moon came down and the bodies of everyone else that died to it also aren't in great shape, maybe it's just the lighting but they seem to look different from the other corpses around Yahargul/Upper Cathedral Ward, more like they died and their bodies are decaying normally. It's also probably debatable if not having direct line of sight to the red moon would offer protection, but if it does, they'd be protected, because they're indoors.) The Nightmare of Mensis and the brain were already there, leftover from an older society that went through its own version of these events, because we do not learn from history. It was so long ago (even before the Pthumerians; if it was their's the last recognizable aspect wouldn't be a large building, it would be that the whole thing would be underground) that the dreamlands have eroded most of the markers of that society (this is already happening in the Hunter's Nightmare, where the recreation of Yharnam is recognizable but blatantly not a 1:1 match with reality because the people trapped there are mad and Yharnam is steadily slipping from their memories.) The building was probably that society's main establishment for whatever organization filled the role of the Healing Church in their downfall, and the brain was a failed experiment to ascend like Rom. The irony is still there, too, in this interpretation; it's just that rather than being bestowed an ironic gift, after all that, after experimenting on others and letting their bodies die in pursuit of knowledge and discovery, what they find is a brain lined with eyes that is a monument to the exact same kind of failure they've always had. Either way, that irony would no doubt contribute to why Micolash is a complete loon by the time we meet him; he's driven himself crazy looking for better answers in this place, because he can't accept that there aren't any to find. 1:12:00 God, we've been running our brains in circles with "but Mensis Ritual _Bad_ so why do we automatically kill Rom? Thonk Emoji?" for years and this is a lot simpler. I think we still have to assume that the player's hunter has largely figured out what's going on by the time they get to Rom (perhaps in a story sense they spend a little more time combing through the old research at Byrgenwerth than the time it takes us to walk through the building and up to Willem while playing the game) and have decided to kill Rom because they're actively seeking to stop Mensis, and to do that they have to remove the veil Rom has over perception so they can get to Micolash in the first place, but that still left me with the question of why we couldn't just walk away and let Rom stop the ritual forever. It makes so much more sense if she's just obfuscating it, but _stopping_ it is entirely on the hunter.

[@wispfire2545]

Wow, what an amazing idea! Kos would have never lost it's child, if it had never given birth? I really like that. The rest of the comment is great also. Good thinking (:

[@themightymcb7310]

The Orphan's weapon looks like his placenta with a bladed edge, almost looking like it has a giant fish hook in it. I've always kind of thought that Kos was killed by the villagers of the Hamlet at sea. The battle sinks the ships we see in the distance and a pregnant Kos escapes wounded, only to wash up on the shore later, having died of her wounds. That's when the Hamlet villagers start feeding themselves on the phantasms drawn to her corpse, turning them into fish people who worship the corpse of a god who provides them with endless food.

[@alexterieur8813]

@charleshastings7260do all great ones come from human

[@psychoamnesia1]

why do you think the Moon Presence has evil intentions towards gerhman? it’s the moon rune that says « the great ones inhabiting the nightmare are sympathetic in spirit and often answer when called upon » and that exactly what the moon presence did : laurence, gerhman and their associates beckoned her, she answered, gerhman will lives in the dream and she even brought his doll to life. in a sort, she also saved gerhman of an infinite nightmare (the hunter nightmare, which is worse than being trapped in the hunters dream). but remember, Flora is a GREAT ONE, not a human. so yes, she probably don’t understand humans feelings and why gerhman would be mad to lives alone in a dream 🤷🏻‍♀️ personally, i don’t buy the idea that the moon presence is evil. she obviously don’t have our human morality, but that doesn’t mean she is purely evil or something.

[@AlhazredsGamingGoo]

@@psychoamnesia1 Flora doesn't have evil intentions towards Gehrman, but she also doesn't care about him in any meaningful way. It's fairly obvious when he talks in his sleep; "...Oh, Laurence... Master Willem... Somebody, help me... Unshackle me, please, anybody... I've had enough of this dream... The night blocks all sight... Oh, somebody, please..." It's even more blatant in his unused dialog where he gets giddy and celebrates when the dream catches on fire. He clearly does _not_ want to be in the Hunter's Dream, and Flora doesn't care because Gehrman is the collateral for Laurence coming back with a child for her (which is never going to happen because Laurence is dead.)

[@AlbertusSalvatierra]

Lovely, lovely lore - I’ll feast on this while it storms outside 🥱 I began playing Bloodborne not that long ago, and thus far I’m enjoying it greatly. The Great Ones, and the ancient civilizations synonymous and or related to their existence is something that fascinates me 👏

[@Kristerbuster]

Perfect timing, I just completed my first playthrough of Bloodborne and The Old Hunters DLC this week

[@wispfire2545]

38:35 I believe it is a fairly widely accepted idea, that the Winterlanters are dolls, just like the Doll in Hunter's Dream. Winterlanters have dresses that look vaguely similar to the Doll's, but the color differences could just be because they are sullied by whatever liquids may be seeping from their heads down their bodies. The winterlanters' hands are jointed and segmented like the Doll's, showing that Winterlanters are mechanical beings.

[@Arkhestra]

Rom always struck me as an unintentional being, the person long gone but just enough of her remained or is implanted in the spider that it unknowingly does it’s task without knowing why

[@joedominguez8064]

Hell of a video, one of your best ones yet and not just because I’m a huge Bloodborne fan ! Bloodbornes story is inherently difficult to express but you did an excellent job, and the idea of the Hunt as essentially a part of the Moon Presences lifecycle is something that I never really considered. Well done as always!

[@SmoughTown]

That's so awesome to hear! Thank you so much

[@LadyAsmodeus]

these are the best bloodborne lore videos I ever seen, I love how each enemy is being explained by looking at their design and adding to their backstories, why they look like that - I never considered pondering about these things, so I'm very glad for the BB content on the channel ~

[@SmoughTown]

Really appreciate that! I was nervous to release this video, so that's a great relief.

[@Maffo__]

Ooooooh I've been waiting for this one! Glad to see you cover my all time favourite game again, have a good one Geoff!

[@SmoughTown]

Cheers! Thank you so much, hope you have a good one too

[@ZonicCeasor]

Hell yes, love that you’re diving into bloodborne lore. My fav fromsoft game

[@GlizzardWizard81]

One small but significant gripe is that mergo’s wet nurse is likely not the one in the other side of Yharnam’s betrothal pact. Oedon is. As you mentioned in the video, every great one yearns for a surrogate. In this case, he used Yharnam to birth his child and, when they were both killed by the Pthumerians and Mergo was banished to the nightmare, he assigned lesser beings to guard the pair. The Shadows guard Queen Yharnam as a lesser precaution, kind of like a “hey thanks for carrying my child and getting murdered lmao” while mergo’s wet nurse is effectively a golem that exists to serve and protect Mergo. One other thing is that I believe that the One Reborn is the School of Mensis/Chime Maidens’ failed creation of Mergo’s physical body. The fact that it basically just flails around and screams like a baby is indicative of the fact that this being is not used to life itself, let alone a physical body.

[@seamusfinnerty5897]

I think there's an argument to be made that the wet nurse is an avatar of oedon, or a sort of angel serving the god's will. It is without form itself, with the "body" of the wet nurse being its outfit, ie its role as a wet nurse, which means that if you remove this aspect of it, you would have pure formlessness. it's also the only great one not given a name. Alternatively, the wet nurse is mergo itself, the god half of the being manifesting as the formless protector of the mortal half, which no longer exists.

[@GlizzardWizard81]

@@seamusfinnerty5897 ooh i actually really like that theory of the wet nurse being mergo itself mostly because when you beat the wet nurse, you don't actually get the boss defeated message until a few seconds later, after mergo stops crying (and assumedly dies)

[@godslayerno1]

God bless you SmoughTown, without yourself and Drewmora for Elder Scrolls lore Id never be able to sleep. I've watched all of your videos dozens of times. Really glad to see you getting back into BloodBorne lore, looking forward to more of it

[@TheMartianrebel]

Perfect work listening. Love the recent surge in bloodborne lore. Encouraged me to start a playthrough again.

[@chainsawjinkins4074]

Favorite lore account goin back to do videos on my favorite souls game. Damn good time to be alive

[@SmoughTown]

❤means the world my friend. Hope you enjoy my take

[@ScionOfSolaire]

Man, Bloodborne lore is always captivating and these long form video essays really do it justice

[@TheCaveMan3615]

Elden ring brought me to this channel the man the myth the legend kept me here. Whatever game lore smoughtown cover’s I’m gonna watch it

[@SmoughTown]

Really appreciate that Ethan, you humble me!

[@Scoobydoo-ju9ch]

An interpretation I have seen relating to the Moon Presence using the hunters dream and the hunters to go and slay other great ones/nightmares is because in HP Lovecrafts works the great ones are at odds with each other, in the short story "The mountains of madness" it is discovered that the Old Ones end up fighting with the more Cthulu like beings when they end up on earth in attempts to keep their home. It feels like the Moon Presence has the same issue due to the Mensis scholars disrupting her plans to create a child she needs hunters to remove the threat to her plans of having her own child

[@KK-my6hw]

I always thought the Wet Nurse was a servant or aspect of Oedon keeping his child in a form of stasis from truly dying or keeping the stillbirth held indefinitely. Possibly a less ascended Great One that became drawn to Mergo and is unwilling to let him fully die. At the end of the fight there is a long pause and you don't actually get the message of a Great One slain until you hear the slow death cries of Mergo. I always imagined Odeon was unwilling to give up his doomed child and was holding on to a hopeless failed birth that kept Mergo and his mother in their states right before the birth fully failed, which is why his mostly formless other servants follow and protect them both. The queen also kept alive in the nightmare as the formless Mergo is still living off her body. The last line of defense before you enter the top of Mergo's Loft are more servants that will attack other enemies and seem to be keeping everyone and everything else from him. It seems like the game mostly takes place in Mergo's nightmare or realm, and beings have been transported to it since his "birth" since you can find other Pthumerians still there as well as modern humans and other beings that seem to be from other realties and times. The Moon Presence seems to have other goals and uses the Hunter to put down Mergo and end the Nightmare that is slowly pulling more and more into it, after the task is done in the one ending the Moon Presence uses his servant to send the Hunter back to the "real" or normal human perception of the world. It is also worth noting that the Moon Presence seems to be the one stopping you from dying or "waking up" from the reality, at least until you start to ascend yourself if you fight him. Everyone else is dead or gone from the plane and do not "respawn", at least the NPCS and bosses you interact with and not the generic enemies. The moon is the closest celestial body to the Earth, so I always felt like it represents the celestial being most concerned with the human world, however like all celestial beings it can't manifest there physically. I am unsure if it is Mergo unintentionally doing it or the Moon presence that is not allowing the hunt to end until the deed is done. Everyone you run into seems to notice that the night of the hunt is unending or at least lasting too long this time and they are drifting further and further from the reality they know, the hunt that started when the Hunter entered the reality seeking Pale Blood. I always kind of thought the Moon Presence was either trying to put down Mergo to stop the reality the Hunt takes place in from warping more and more or simply taking more territory and subjects from him or warping realities in ways untenable to him. The other people you meet have been there for a long time, and seem to have been unaware of the reality they were in thanks to the veil of Rom. I always thought Mergo's mostly mindless and scared state was either warping realities or pulling more and more of other realities into the one where the game takes place, and the Moon Presence wants to stop it for one reason for another but is unable to materialize outside of the Hunter's Dream. Which makes even more sense when the lanterns were originally chairs the Hunter went to sleep in to access the Hunter's Dream. Possibly also in line with the School of Mensis that was trying to make contact with him attempting to make a body to inhabit in that reality that falls from the moon itself in that layer of reality. You also find Bell-ringing women there that are Pthumerians, as if they have also been trying to find ways to end or leave the Nightmare for a long time, even trying to assist the school with their endeavor.

[@KK-my6hw]

Also, thinking on it a bit more, they actually go on to do something similar with Kos in the DLC. With her trying to keep her doomed child alive by keeping it in her body indefinitely until her own death. This child was also able to have terrible powers and manifestations in other realities despite never being born. The Moon Presence might not even have had a special stake in Mergo's fate, but tries to kill off the stillborn children of Great Ones for some reason we don't know? Considering the Hunters were also involved in the initial attempts to kill it off too, with the Moon-Scented Hunter also crossing into that reality to finish the job. Maybe the Moon Presence is trying to lead humans to find the umbilicals and stillbirths so they can ascend and become it's own surrogate child it can care for as a mother? Especially since one of the ones you find is in the original workshop on the altar, and even after the fight with her the dream remains and the doll is happy to care for the child. (should have used feminine pronouns before since that is the historic association of the moon.) Meanwhile if the Hunter fails to ascend and fights Gehrman they become the new imprisoned servant to guide the next Hunt.

[@erikwilliams8692]

Ur a real one for showing love to Last Protagonist

[@SmoughTown]

Guy is a G

[@luvforhui]

i havent played a single second of bloodborne but oh my god these lore videos are so interesting i love them

[@TheLastComa]

By the Gods,... *Fear the new Upload*

[@SmoughTown]

👀

[@averagetexan9673]

As far as the Winter Lanterns go, I believe in the idea that the reason as to why they wear the doll's clothes is due to the fact that they are essentially trying to lure us into their grasp with nostalgia, including the lullaby they hum. However, due to the possible creation from the Brain Of Mensis, this nostalgia is warped heavily, helping to sell the idea of a Corrupted Great One that is the Brain Of Mensis. Regardless, love the video, and the longform bloodborne content, really looking forward to the next one!

[@zaclovesschool2273]

Even just the introduction had me taking notes and writing down my own ideas and understandings. What a well made essay. I've been very into bloodborne lore as well as many ideas that it suggests and touches on, such as esoteric knowledge (broad but im not going into all of that, plus I'm just a learner right now, not trying to act like I know more than I do). I've read the pale blood hunt, and was worried that there was nothing else to digest or think through, but you've managed to keep exploring these things in new and interesting ways.

[@SmoughTown]

🔥that means the world my friend, it was a challenging video to make so I’m glad you felt it was a good one

[@alexterieur8813]

Whats the pale blood hunt

[@zaclovesschool2273]

@@alexterieur8813 An amazing analysis of bloodborne's story, themes, and lore. There is a free PDF or document of it that you can read online, or theres a really good audio book type reading of the same document on youtube if you prefer that. I would listen to it on the way to my classes or if I had any downtime btw them. I would recommend it, provides lots of interesting ideas that can also be applied to understanding things about real world issues and concepts (at least in my opinion).

[@Reddotzebra]

I get it now, the spider men, the Nightmare Apostles! Spiders have eight eyes but only two of them work the way we're used to, the others are motion sensors so they are set for maximum coverage. The Nightmare Apostles with human faces, like Patches, they only have two eyes on the outside, so the remaining six are lining their brain! It's brilliant!

[@justanewskrub]

At roughly 39:00 and on regarding Winter Lanterns. I feel like there could be something here, only problem is that I’m pretty sure when you go to Yahar’gul before Rom you hear the chanting of the School conducting their ritual presumably. At this same time you can get the tonsil stone from Patches and enter the 1st floor of the lecture hall. From here you can go to the Nightmare Frontier and encounter Winter Lanterns before the death of Rom and the completion of Mensis’s ritual.

[@baltoy7460]

But Nightmare Forntier is... well, the frontier of the Nightmare, right? So the Nightmare had already been created back then.

[@Rahnonymous]

​@baltoy7460 Yeah, thinking about it, the winter lanterns are only found in the nightmares, and resemble the Doll/Lady Maria. There's a few right outside Kos' room, and I highly doubt that was a coincidence. Edit; every nightmare is controlled by someone opposing hunters. Nightmare Frontier is controlled by Amygdala, and could be interpreted as a warped version of the hunter's dream. Nightmare of Mensis is controlled by Mergo/Queen Yharnam, who was taken from their tomb in the chalice dungeons and dissected by hunters. Finally, the Fishing Hamlet is controlled by Kos, and like Queen Yharnam, was slaughtered and dissected upon by the old hunters. Lady Maria and Gehrman are very high ranking hunters fame wise, so a manifestation of Lady Maria as a winter lantern could easily make a lot of sense

[@dantoki6371]

Yeah, and you can find them in the fishing hamlet too. Visually they are certainly reminicent of the Brain of Mensis, but it's interesting that they have the Doll's body, and the ones in the Hamlet are so close to the rakuyo. Wich kinda makes me think that they are a manifestation of Maria in a way. Similarly to the research patients they have these huge heads, kinda have a calming hum to them, wich is probably something that Maria would have done to the patients. Even their grab attack is like a hug in a way.

[@baltoy7460]

@@dantoki6371 For the ones in the Hamlet, they could've fell from above!

[@dantoki6371]

@@baltoy7460 It's possible, but the one example that we have for the falling is the snail girl and she dies fromthe impact, but in this case the Lanterns are in a good shape and on top of that they are in a cavern, so falling in there is a bit wonky.

[@nayyarrashid4661]

Patches is a primordial being. World like existence and ascension are meaningless to him. He regularly jumps in between souls game Bloodborne and Elden Ring. He is an inter dimensional primordial being.

[@SackofWoe]

SmoughTown talking about Elden Ring lore for 45 mins: =/, SmoughTown talking about Bloodborne for 1.5 hours: OwO

[@SmoughTown]

😂

[@Locaneo]

The reason the spiders are missing their eyes is likely because they were spooned out and used for similar things that Bergenwerth used them for. That's why there are eyes everywhere including in jars, and after all what animal has the most eyes that can be taken for use as insight?

[@zaclovesschool2273]

The evidence and beliefs on mergo are very compelling, though my personal view of it was more along the lines of the Orphan. I first thought that it was odd how the wet nurse was partially formless, but was clearly a nurse or someone who helped deliver Mergo from Yarnham. It is my opinion that the Wet Nurse is Mergo's subconscious, traumatic manifestation of the nurse who used all of her blades and tools to cut open its mother to help give birth to Mergo. Yarnhams abdomen is clearly stained with blood, and the procedure likely wasn't pretty. I'd imagine that the consciousness of the formless mergo was frightened by this image of their nurse, but also understood that she was their protector. So in this nightmare, the nurse is an illusion like the orphan's strangely grown up body, which we have to slay to give peace to the frightned and traumatized child. I also believe that the appearance of the Wet Nurse is based on what the actual nurse was wearing, which mightve been an outfit similar to the Shadows of Yarnham, just more exagerated to a newborn's mind. I'd imagine that a shadow of yarnham holding sharp tools being used to slice and cut flesh would be an extremely scary sight for the newborn. The fact that it dosent bleed, nor does it have a face, further reinforces this idea in my eyes. The face of the nurse likely wouldnt have been visible to Mergo, because it was covered by a veil. So to the child, this person may as well have not had a face or a body. Nightmare fuel at it's finest.

[@SmoughTown]

I do really like this interpretation to be fair, thank you for sharing!

[@purpledevilr7463]

1:25:00 seems oddly like the description of a period to me. ‘Red moon’ ‘once a month’ specifically to try to create a child.

[@dantoki6371]

I don't know if it's possible that the red moon/moon presnece appears every month, becuase the whole events seems to be fairly apocalyptic every time. Like when there was a red moon in the past, the whole of Old Yharnam turned and in the present the situation is also similar, as the Chapel Dweller says "the city is done for". Plus Rom is still blocking the ritual, becuse the pale blood sky cannot appear until she dies. So there is a decent amount of time between the Burning of Old Yharnam and Rom's death and it's safe to assume that she was blocking the ritual the whole time, more or less, between the two events. Damien of Mensis is still helps us int he fight If she would be a boon to Mensis why would a member of said faction try to kill her? If we take LP's translation, the word concealment is an interesting one, because with Rom alive the 'true nature' of Yharnam is 'concealed'. So if you break that "concealment" then the Mensis ritual can be concluded.

[@kakashipervysensei7251]

Don't have much knowledge for this game but I believe that it decimates different society's or towns as shown in the chalice dugeons referencing different society's and their fall/allegiance to the great ones

[@picklefathernurgle2719]

You mentioned the Brain of Mensis might be something made for he School Mensis. That led me to think his Wetnurse might also be created, specifically by Murgo. Its a faceless mother figure wearing a big poofy dress similar to his mother. If there's a baby creating comparatively "lesser" Great Ones, it would make sense for the frightened mind of a child with no body to get the bare bones of a comforting, matronly figure mostly right but missing key components. Ones like, you know, a face and physical form. What he did get right was the protective, graceful, vaguely feminine silhouette and multiple arms for holding him and attending to his needs. The Wetnurse could be the interpretation of a maternal figure through a child's eyes. Murgo's mind probably worked along the lines of "> Need/want Mother. > Mother protects/defends. > Mother holds/cuddles/swaddles. > Mother feeds/sustains." The one thing I'm not sure of is whether the Wetnurse is called such because that's the function she serves or if that's just a title. Does it actually feed Murgo with formless, metaphorical, metaphysical milk or is that just what the School of Mensis called it because that's what a seemingly feminine surrogate does for an infant separated from its mother?

[@UnrulyGoats]

Loved the ending! What a twist!

[@SmoughTown]

hahaha!

[@Tengu125]

Might it be possible that there's some ancient covenant, where once a month, the Great Ones can seek a surrogate, and the Moon Presence, as represented by the moon, our closest celestial neighbour, is the one given the task to keep the balance between the physical world and the cosmos? It basically stands in the way of the Great Ones who would violate the cycle, as their constant presence would cause disturbances, and its Hunters are tasked with dealing with things in its stead on the physical plane.

[@RumoleBumpkin]

Great theory, just finished Bloodborne and was thinking the same thing.

[@itzamedio5427]

"Sorry boss im gonna be late. SmoughTown posted."

[@SmoughTown]

Hahah! Appreciate that!

[@marvelouspatches8577]

My personal theory on Great One's and what not, are that they come in many different forms and are made and born in many kinds of ways. Personally I feel as if the Great Ones can be put into three basic categories. Kin, Great One's, Old One's. Starting with the Kin being things that have ascended to a greater plane of thought and or including physically. Such as the Brain Of Mensis, Living Failures, Celestial Emissary, ect. The capabilities of the creatures are immensely powerful and beyond normal mortal comprehension. But they are crude imitations of greater beings, lacking the true power of the Great One and Old Ones (as I like the call the latter category.) They can summon the power of the cosmos but we never see true control of it like with Mero, Oedon, Ebrietas and so on. Along with it seems much of there purpose comes down to being a radio or a attempt to channel greater power. Next moving on to the Great ones. They seem to be the start of true power and understanding of the planes of thought and the cosmos. Along with great control over there power down to great detail. They also seem to be created by other Great Ones and Old Ones. Such as in the case with the birth of Ariana's child with Oedon, Orphan Of Kos, and Rom. Along with a person or creature who knows enough about the cosmos and gains a higher level of thought. These creatures I believe can include the Amygdala, Ebrietas, Rom, and the Moon Presence. They have power beyond comprehension and bend reality to there whim. Along with summoning and controlling of the powers of the cosmos to great effect and precision. But they are limited too. They still have form and seem slightly limited to their set identities. We know very little about the Amygdala, or what would have happened to Ariana's child. But the Moon Presence seems to want to activity try to rid the cosmos of all Beasts and other Great Ones by what seems any means necessary. Be it by controlling the Hunters through Gehrmen and the Hunters dream. And it seems almost like a animal with a base instinct of trying to remove other competition. And the case with Ebrietas. She seems that she beckons the stars and cosmos almost to a enthralling state and is aggressive to those who interfere. Like a creature that is desperately trying to find something. Next Rom is there to safe guard the truth of the Eldritch planes around Humans and the world at large. She has her purpose as lives it to the letter. Existing physically and mentally on multiple planes to do her one job. Lastly, what I like the consider the Old One's. Creatures truly beyond everything else. They have no form and need none. They do as they desire and follow only the one basic urge of all life in the cosmos, and that is to reproduce. Be it by creating Great One's or having mortals birth them. Along with having what seems to be control over whatever they want in whatever form they want. For example Oedon is formless and seems to care not for the world at all unless its with the creations of more Great One's. And the next is Mergo's Wet Nurse. She only seems to care for the upbringing of what could be a child or perhaps even a new Great One. She has no form and she choose to use her power to take a near formless shape under rags and blades. But overall I doubt that we as Hunters actually killed her. Or as a matter of the fact I doubt we really killed any of the Great One's or Old One's ( that being Mero's Wet Nurse for the Old One.) It almost feels illogical that we could destroy what seems to be a power that goes beyond planes of reality. Well you might say that they disappear after their defeat. That is true, but in the case of the Moon Presence, it doesn't really go away. The Hunter becomes the Moon Presence. Rom seems to be every ware, not just in the lake. And we could go on and on about what happens to every other Great/ Old One. But my finial thought on that piece, is how do you destroy power? You don't really, it just goes somewhere unseen unless used in consumption toward another source. And that would be the Hunter using the blood echos.

[@Skeletonk]

After you defeat the orphan, the doll says gehrman is sleeping peacefully. Theory, The Orphan is Gehrmans form within the hunters nightmare. Every Old One LOSES THEIR CHILD and seeks A SURROGATE .All the Old hunters are pulled into the hunters nightmare, Hell for hunters by the Curse of Kos. Gehmans punishment in the nightmare for taking Kos' child is being the "Orphan" adopted by Kos.

[@shin_taps]

this is kinda cool

[@ImBarryScottCSS]

OK I've crossed the threshold into watching Smough videos on games I've never played, oh well, in for a penny...

[@SmoughTown]

Hahaha really appreciate that my friend ❤️

[@BarefootBry]

“Sigh” Time to start another play through. Thanks for another quality video!

[@SmoughTown]

My pleasure my friend haha! Thank you for checking it out

[@themightymcb7310]

I am so ecstatic to see you covering Bloodborne like this. The lore is far and away my favorite in the entire souls franchise and there isn't nearly as much content on it as the dark souls games, which is a huge shame. Btw small audio nerd tip, I recommend investing in a pop filter to go between the mic and your mouth to cut down on the harshness of your plosives (sharp consonant t, k, p, d, g, and b sounds) as well as a "de-esser" plugin for your recording software. There are plenty of free ones that work great and Waves makes a good one for $30. They cut down on the harshness of "s" sounds.

[@SmoughTown]

Do you think it was louder/harsher than usual? I do have a pop filter - but somehow my recording was louder this time

[@themightymcb7310]

@@SmoughTown I think you're a touch louder here than on your last video, but the plosives and esses are still a little crunchy on that one too. Maybe drop the gain down a bit?

[@SmoughTown]

@@themightymcb7310 Got you, yeh i'm unsure what to do - Im using a condenser so I feel when i turn it down to fix these issues, the recording is super quiet. Any advice?

[@themightymcb7310]

@@SmoughTown Do you have the mic running into a preamp/interface of some kind before it hits your computer or do you just plug it in directly? If you plug it in directly, my advice would be to invest in a usb interface and XLR cables. If you already have that and you're still having trouble, try checking the gain levels in different places. You might not be clipping on your interface, but you might be in OBS or your DAW. It's best to set the interface gain as high as you can while maintaining clarity, then using the software to balance your volume level.

[@SmoughTown]

@@themightymcb7310 That's really helpful thank you. So I do have a preamp - so, I'll play around with the gain on the amp and then adjust it in Audacity after. I might also have the mic just too close to my face. Appreciate all the feedback, as I find getting my recording right, to be a really difficult part of the process!

[@GrunkyPeeep]

Nice shout out to Charred Thermos. That guys lore videos are fascinating

[@SmoughTown]

100% Will be watching the rest soon

[@KaedNinescarred]

​@@SmoughTownyeah I absolutely loved charred thermos' videos where he shows that Ebrietas is a respiratory system and her head is the top of the voicbox. The moon presence is a circulatory system and it's face is the cross section of a heart blood vessel. And all the other medical references Bloodborne has to the horrific early days of Edinburgh surgery and medical research. Such a fun video series! Though important to remember that fromsoft was "inspired by" doesn't necessarily mean it's a "direct interpretation" of the story of Bloodborne. A delightful series to watch through for more nuanced takes than many of the last 8 years of "it's Lovecraft in London"

[@morgan145able]

I really enjoy the interpretation by some that Rom is made "vacuous" not because she's stupid, but because her mind wasn't ready to think Great One thoughts and know what they know. Her "vacuous" nature is just her being stupefied by the tumult of new information she's recieving. The other, sadder thought I had was that (unless this is directly refuted elsewhere) back in the old days, one of the medical terms for the developmentally disabled was "idiot", and people who were born this way were often put into asylums and other horrible institutions. It doesn't seem like a stretch to me that the School of Mensis took vulnerable people from these places and experimented on them.

[@evosquad2474]

I like the theory that Mergo’s Loft is a reflection of something that existed in Pthumerian society, I think maybe that the Wet Nurse was actually lured in by Mergo’s crying, and that is why Queen Yharnam is crying outside the lunariam, because I don’t understand why she would be crying if the Wet Nurse is the Great One that Yharnam betrothed. Think back to the one note, that says that the School of Mensis tries (fruitlessly) to beckon the moon. It is my belief that the School of Mensis had, at the very least, some part in constructing Mergo’s Loft in the Nightmare, due to the fact that you fight the Wet Nurse in Mergo’s Lunarium. Implying that Mergo is seated to observe the moon, to try and lure in the Moon Presence. Going back to how Mensis is unable to beckon the moon, the moon presence does not respond because Mergo has already been “claimed” per-say by Mergo’s Wet Nurse. Just my opinion though, very nice video. More Bloodborne stuff soon please! I’m loving it! Keep up the good work!

[@thedanielstraight]

The Winterlanterns are visually dressed as Dolls, kinda. Perhaps, failed dolls of Hunters who decided to wake up? Rejected dolls? I imagine they are left to carry some of those nightmares their Hunters saw so that those horrors do not reach the waking world.

[@sanityplusmilkshakes]

Running chalices with this in the background Edit: I have never considered Great Ones as all being former humans/humanoids. I think I always assumed that the Great Ones came from outer space. This new (to me) supposition opens so many doors for speculation. Thank you for granting me eyes on the inside.

[@SmoughTown]

Sounds awesome, love running brand new chalices

[@ADruid25]

"Ahh, sweet child of Kos, returned to the ocean... A bottomless curse, a bottomless sea. Accepting of all that there is and can be..." I can't help but to wonder if all Great One where once Mortal Humanoids, if Kos had ascended when she was with child, her ascension ascended not only her, but her child, making them into a duel Great One, a rare occurrence of a Great One who had a child. If that is true, that makes the defilement of her body a tragedy. A Unified being, cruelly separated by uncaring pursuit of 'knowledge'.

[@PbAndJamess]

Any day with a smoughtown video drop is a great day indeed, thanks for the pre work video

[@SmoughTown]

More to come! Thank you for watching

[@RollercoasterWriter]

Late to the party on this one but just want to say I’m massively stoked for more Bloodborne content. I came to the channel via your Elden Ring stuff and have devoured every bit of it. I’ve watched your earlier Bloodborne videos as well and I enjoyed them but it’s great to see you revisiting these topics and applying all the polish that you’ve learned in your time since. I’d love to know what you thought about Charred Thermos’ True Story of Bloodborne series if you’ve seen it. The one in which he discusses the potential for medical allegory (or metaphor maybe? The distinction eludes me sometimes).

[@jstar3382]

I don't think Rom breaks the ritual of mesis, but rather hides it from us. Why? Not sure. Why would killing rom summon the blood moon if it wasnt hiding it in the first place

[@EinsamPibroch278]

1:24:00 Why no one in over a decade connected that the endless columns floating in the Hunter's Dream are the same Pillars in the opening scene of Dark Souls, thus placing The two games in the same Dream Dimension, I will never know.😑

[@wpb5876]

I love your Elden Ring videos and your new Bloodborne videos are amazing too! I have a huge itch to take up the hunt once more (Watchdog of the Old Lords still gives me nightmares though…)

[@SmoughTown]

hahaha that hit box! Thats awesome to hear, glad its got you interested again

[@Jalmerk]

Something I noticed after like 900h of playtime is that when the red moon comes out it is infact in front of the clouds, like it’s actually hanging in the air just above you, watching you, rather than somewhere out in space. Oh and also you can see the Nightmare Frontier headstone from the Nightmare of Mensis too!

[@Eldagusto]

The shadows of Yharnam are ninja bodyguards for the royals family, just like the Shadows of the empyreans. They are royal assassins.

[@Florjb0rjTheFloorboard]

The Hunter: kills Rom The sky of Yharnam: *The glow of the Bloodstained Moon shines once more upon the land...*

[@daniell1483]

Good video. Some material has already been covered by other channels, but I think this is the single best deep dive into Great Ones as a concept. I can't help but see some parallels with D&D's god's ability to generate avatars to do their will in the mortal world. Or, alternatively and a much closer comparison to our role in Bloodborn, the deity can forgo an avatar in order to create "Chosen", essentially taking a mortal to play the role of avatar as a sort of proxy. I think that the Moon Presence has chosen us as its "Chosen" so to speak in order to stop the Ritual of Mensis. By confronting the Moon Presence though, we are instead trying to usurp the Presence's role in the world.

[@SmoughTown]

Much appreciate that. It was a difficult video to do and tbh I had to cut a lot out as it was getting so large. So glad to hear you enjoyed it as it was

[@daniell1483]

@@SmoughTown Maybe it is just me, but I could have listened to you go on at further length. I think others would too.

[@maxthepaladin2147]

Okay, one last time I am Patches the Spider. I was bitten by a radioactive Amygdala

[@gravestone4840]

I always thought they made The One Reborn so they could fuse the Brain of Mensis with it so it could be mobile in the waking world. A big meat mech to be controlled by the Brain. It could be that they were just forcing the consciousness of the Brain into it.

[@justinm4561]

Really thought I’d understood everything about this game and yet this just completely blew my mind. you must have eyes on the inside of your brain, great video

[@QUIICKCLAW]

A wet nurse traditionally is a woman who breastfeeds and cares for another woman's child. Mergo probably isn't the child of the Wet Nurse. Instead, I think it would be more sensible for Mergo to be the child of either the Moon Presence or Formless Oedon. Most likely Moon Presence as it would explain the Moon Presence's investment in the entirety of the game. The School of Mensis are obsessed with the Moon. The Moon is this dominating presence that watches over Yharnam and the Church and its present in the Hunter's Dream. It is watching everything, and only appears after Mergo is killed.

[@Brandonious15987]

I think Mergo is Oedon's kid. They are are both formless. Moon Presence's appearance at the end was mostly about replacing Gerhman. Also when the Hunter becomes a Great One they look like MP.

[@dezopenguin9649]

A great, thought-provoking video, with a lot of insightful takes, including some that I'd never thought of before and that I found highly appealing! One thing that I do have a different take on is the Moon Presence's motive as regards the Hunters and the end of the game. (I also happen to agree with you about Flora's intention as regards this particular Night of the Hunt: she senses the disruption of the order of the world as caused by the Mensis ritual and wants it stopped by whatever means necessary.) I believe that the "Childhood's Beginning" ending is exactly what the Moon Presence hoped for all along when she created the Hunter's Dream: that in creating Hunters, eventually there would be one who would develop their own eldritch strength to the point that they could claim her power, ascending to become her surrogate child (for it's plain that she can never bear one herself--her body has a spine and a ribcage but no organs; she has no womb, unlike Kos; she's not male like Oedon who can conceive with a human). In the Hunter's Dream she has a mechanism whereby individuals can be selected and strengthened via the Hunt, there is Gehrman in the role of guide and overseer (who can weed out those who are merely blood-maddened, unsuitable for the role, ejecting them by force at the end of their term as Hunter, in addition to freeing those who willingly abandon the dream and are thus equally unsuitable). And if we succeed in Hunting the Moon Presence herself, what are we left with? A sheltered pocket of reality where the infinitely fragile young life can grow up safe and protected (unlike Oedon's child with Arianna, for example, that can be snuffed out with a single blow before it's even had a chance to live) and a caregiver there to look after it. Given the fact that the Hunter's Mark is found throughout the Chalice Dungeons, telling us that the Hunt was known to the Pthumerians even though this iteration of it began with Gehrman and Laurence beckoning the Moon Presence, it's entirely possible that this process has been going on for a long time; in accordance with your thought that perhaps all Great Ones are ascended beings, formerly human or human-like, perhaps the Moon Presence of the Pthumerians was in turn Hunted by Flora. (Could the Holy Moonlight Sword even be a relic of that Moon, explaining why the moonlight that is its aspect is so different from anything associated with the Moon Presence (who attacks with red energy and with blood, and has no visual connection with the blue light of the cosmos?)

[@MalevolentRizz]

@SmoughTown If the Brain of Mensis is a fusion of the scholar's minds from school of Mensis, could the Winter Lanterns be the dolls of those scholars, also affected by the ritual by being linked to the scholars? IIRC a Bloodborne lore hunter (can't recall which) made the observation that the Winter Lanterns outfit/body was that of the doll.

[@SmoughTown]

Yeh that's probably something I should have addressed (the doll's body) and it is certainly possible!