Blue Lions Tier List (Three Houses 2021)

[@AdamWithFED]

Man these tier list are bad for my mental health, but if the people want them, you can have them. Which route do you want to see next?

[@aedelborg5132]

Golden deer

[@TmT012]

Your mental health is more important

[@lalalacie]

your mental health matters more dude, that'll always be more important than what the people want! take care

[@shiniselune399]

The best one obviously!

[@rhedwr25]

with everybody's reactions i wouldn't even bother doing any more lol

[@ii_Karla_ii]

Gotta love ingrid being good in any route but her own

[@mathiassonnenstuhl5960]

nmms eres tu

[@ii_Karla_ii]

@@mathiassonnenstuhl5960 ♡

[@VanguardJohnson]

She's good as an flyer adjuctant lol

[@IntrusiveThot420]

Ingrid is a fantastic backpack for sylvain

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

Makes sense. Every other route she can live and fight to her fullest. Blue Lions, she can't sleep knowing she shares a house with Dedue.

[@DelanHaar6]

Something to remember about Felix, Sylvain and Ingrid is that they get attack boosts from their supports with each other. They can effectively get a second Death Blow from +3 damage x2, and then apply it twice with brawling/brave weapons or Swift Strikes. Few other characters can stack linked attack boosts, and most of them are lord characters or Byleth. No mention of Lightning Axe on Annette does her a major disservice, especially on the route where she gets Crusher.

[@lorddragonskin3603]

Still annoyed Crusher is route locked. Even Mercie's paralogue isn't that much route locked. Or Ferdinand/Lysithea's either (though I do always forget it exists).

[@pearsemolloy9656]

@@lorddragonskin3603 that’s less of an issue if you’re like me and you almost exclusively play Azure Moon lol

[@lalalacie]

oof, ingrid. i finished my first blue lions maddening run last week and she was the only lion that i ended up benching at some point (i tried SO hard but she really didn't want to cooperate lol) really love your lists! i don't even care that much about the actual placements, i like them because i always end up learning something useful and fun from these videos that i want to try in my game, so keep it up!

[@IntrusiveThot420]

After 500 hours I had the LUCKIEST ingrid. She didn't miss a SINGLE speed level without save scumming for 24 levels. I have screenshots of her quadding enemy Petra (highest AS unit in the game). But yeah, 500 hours and I've had *ONE* good ingrid. Usually she just backpacks for sylvain for that sweet Swift Strikes bonus damage

[@lalalacie]

@@IntrusiveThot420 that sounds like an insane ingrid!! I've had good ones sometimes, but i generally play on hard so it's easier to be good there (in one of my latest runs she was pretty much stealing all of sylvain's strength levels and he was absolutely terrible while she destroyed things)

[@ryokagirl9424]

Azure Moon is the route where Hapi really shines. The Blue Lions do not have a in-house warp user and she's the best option. yes, Manuela is free but Hapi has an overall better spell list (and she's easier to recruit than Linhardt/Lysithea). plus, we all know how Hegemon Edelgard likes to target your Mercie/Lysithea, potentially one-shotting them. do yourself a favor and give Hapi the Seiros shield + high Avo battalion. problem solved. Speaking of the last map, retribution Ingrid literally soloed the central room and the throne room while the others handled the sides (on maddening), I think she's fairly decent overall and she will reach alert stance+ faster than anyone, but for me it's that unit I solely use when playing BL

[@harcray830]

Lysithea is also pretty easy to recruit and she has better magic and mastermind so she will learn warp faster and she will have better warp range And i agreed with ingrid! she was OP in the final map she was able to kill all the Bolting/Meteor mages so easily with retribution and with alert stance+ she has some godlike avoid :)

[@briangrosenbach]

Yo I also used hapi and Ingrid in my BL Maddening run, and I had the same thing happen. Ingrid solod the center room, and hapi had the seiros shield and Dimitri avoided hegemony Edelgard attacks

[@jackryan2952]

To be fair, Dedue late game is +3 attack to Dimitri at all times, which is more than most units can do.

[@AdamWithFED]

The perfect guard adjutant

[@onilink1612]

You could also make Flayn Byleth's Adjutant as well.

[@sorenfan1964]

or just keep using him

[@jackryan2952]

@@sorenfan1964 My point was that he can do this for absolutely free. All he needs is a support with Dimitri.

[@roninpistol]

Don't sleep too much on Annette. While not exactly the greatest as a rallybot or in a pure magic class, she can excel in a physical class given her axe boon. She gets the lightning axe combat art which does (magic damage + 4mt). After promoting to a wyvern class and getting canto, she becomes a player phase beast, able to ohko bulky enemies. This is fantastic for the mid-game, falling off in the late-game on maddening. A bit of a meme, but an overall fun build with use against high-def, low-res enemies. 9/10, would move up to A-tier.

[@JohnDoe-kn7ex]

Too much work on maddening

[@quickpawmaud]

My Annette has like 45 Magic and is one of my best units as a Warlock. I just gave her every magic boost I had and she one shots stuff without doubling with Sagittae or Excalibur.

[@duetopersonalreasonsaaaaaa]

Lightning Axe deals damage based on the user's Res; her Res base is 4 at a 30% growth, compare to her Mag base which is 11 and a 50% growth. Although the +4 Might does help. Keep in mind most of the 'magic combat arts' don't base their damage off your Mag stat, only the Sword art Hexblade and Gauntlet Mystic Blow do. The rest base it off your Res or Dex value.

[@overlorddystroy4044]

Something something something you're wrong something some- Nah, I'm just playing, I love your lists.

[@kattocomputer942]

Love how you put bernie in S+ to appease the fans and then just left her there lmao

[@flowerpixel]

No he moved her

[@kattocomputer942]

Oh oops I didn't watch the last minute or so

[@union_silver4858]

I hate her character but tbf she’s actually really good, it’s kind of hard to be bad with her godly personal skill persecution complex, a boon in bows and lances and a neutrality in flying, giving her easy access to peg knight at lvl 10 and by extension darting blow, it’s hard for any unit in 3h with easy access to flying utility to not be like A tier or above tbh

[@ellunaafton13]

Ok, i love Ashe both as a character and a unit. I love putting him into wyvern lord, give him a silver bow, silver axe, and rapier, and he’s a beast of a unit(this is just my opinion, I respect other opinions, and dont want to make anyone mad) love the vid!!!

[@2nii2]

Honestly it's more the class make him good than actually him being good ( not to sound rude tho :) )

[@kendjacedric8813]

You make him a crit machin with defiant crit since his Def is not that good

[@duetopersonalreasonsaaaaaa]

Wyvern Lord Ashe is a flying lockpick! It can come in clutch if you forgot chest/door keys.

[@Exlanadre]

Chapter 13 my dimitri still carried hard without battalion skills. They helped feed him enough before the timeskip that he was still untouchable

[@nikkof5384]

I never considered how much Dimitri made my run. Knightkneeler on Ch 4 was so organic especially going in blind, the man deserves that S+.

[@buster1746]

BUT FED YOU FORGOT ASHE IS BEST UNIT, YOU SAID SO YOURSELF!!!!!!!!1111

[@megandeng25]

petition to recreate this video in 2023 and call it Tiers of the Kingdom

[@Tom-vx7qh]

1:58 "They might not end up this high" Haha, good one, nice to see that comedy is still alive

[@AtanoFE]

Poor dedue. Most people only see him as a guard adj. for Dimitri. He was a carry unit in my No recruitment ironman run. Vengence, high hp and str grows. It's really easy to get his HP low for vengence since he has no crest. I would put him in A+, maybe even S if he was available in ch13/14.

[@elroliz9442]

I always comment about dedue's power, but nobody listen :c

[@eddie8830]

Love your videos! It would be pretty cool to see a tier list based on NewGame+ but on the most meme tier builds for Hard/Normal I.e Hunter's volley/ aura knuckles hanemman, frozen lance hubert/marianne, lysiethia with vantage, wrath, and defiant crit, war master dimitri with +40 avoid with brawl etc...

[@paladinslash4721]

Hunter’s volley Hanneman is his best build actually.

[@hexmaniacciaran]

I used falcon knight marianne with arrow of Indra/frozen Lance - it was a lot of fun

[@dylanbraner7249]

I haven't even seen 1 second of this but I already know Dimitri is the number 1.

[@Nubbletech]

That isn't hard to guess.

[@powwowken2760]

I love how quickly tier lists can be broken by the stat gain RNG of this game. Although I find myself hating the system more often then not, I can't deny it really adds some personal flavor to every run.

[@johan662]

I think this tier list is overall fine. I mean I don’t agree with Bernadetta but you did that to please the comment section. In my experience Catherine and Shamir are not as potent as some of the units that I build from the beginning; however, you’ve said before that this list isn’t based on builds. With that logic Shamir and Catherine are excellent units that don’t require much effort. I can’t speak on the DLC as I haven’t played them. Seteth in my experience usually isn’t the best Wyvern unit in my army, but he’s fine. I’ve had a rly good experience with Hilda making her a Wyvern Lord with Darting Blow, Death Blow, etc and she was probably top 3 units in my army after Claude and Felix. Moreover, I think this list is pretty accurate. I beat VW on maddening and AM on hard. I’m taking a break from 3H but I started an AM maddening playthrough so we’ll see how well Hilda does outside of her house.

[@SirCanuckelhead]

That sad moment you realize you can’t get hilda in other routes

[@Starwars-Fanboy]

@@SirCanuckelhead You can in church route. You just have a very short window of time to get her. It has to be in the very last month of the pre time skip iirc. Also to respond the original post, Seteth may not have better stats than your other wyvrens, and will want to get death blow and some other skills but if you're on maddening it's worth it just because he has swift strikes. Brave combat arts reign Supreme on maddening. I still think he's worse than Sylvain and Ferdinand (the other swift strike units) just because he joins later and Sylvain +Ferdinand can contribute to your army for much longer.

[@ceumadorgas9407]

YEY! You really did the blue lions first!!! Thanks!!!!!

[@superfrubblez6123]

I love how everyone having a fit about Bernie got her into S+ tier

[@duetopersonalreasonsaaaaaa]

She seems like such a polarizing unit! It's interesting how different she turns out in people's runs, it seems as though she turns into a delete button or she turns into a great bench warmer, which tbf she'd probably prefer, the poor lass haha.

[@flykiwibirb]

Unpopular opinion: Ingrid's best performance is in Blue Lions. Her early game does suck, but at least she deals decent damage with a Steel Lance Tempest Lance. BUT! Fix her defense by classing as an Armor Knight at level 10, then immediately switch to Brigand which has a good strength modifier (Byleth has my only flying battalion at this point anyway). Once she has Deathblow and decent defense, she can deal and take meaningful damage without getting doubled (along with having great res). Reclass her as a Wyvern at level 20 (by which point she should also have darting blow) and she'll probably get a great permanent strength boost -- now she's *really* good on player phase (Burning Quake one-shot goes brrrr) and probably already has Alert Stance. In Blue Lions especially, she'll easily and quickly get Alert Stance + and dodge tank like crazy -- which will be even better once she gets Lancefaire and avo + 10 in Falcon Knight. On my current BL iron man, she is literally my second best unit behind Dimitri right now. She doubles and deals great damage on player and enemy phase, and she dodge tanks like mad with decent defense and good resistance to fall back on. She is a bit of a late bloomer for sure, but she can be almost as good as Felix and Sylvain pretty early on (after getting Deathblow and once you can fly and double with her), and then easily surpasses them as the game progresses. Out of house, I find it is so much harder to fix her stats (i.e. get axe rank for Deathblow and Wyvern certification), and it's a pain to get her flying and authority ranks up, and I'd rather just use Leonie or Ferdinand as my dodge tanks. In house Ingrid is one of my favorite units. Sidenote: everyone says that "everyone gets doubled by everything on maddening," and...that's just not true? It is definitely true in the early game -- but I find that enemy attack speed stays stagnant for a while, allowing your higher speed units to catch up and start doubling after not too long. The only enemies that will continue to double almost everyone are enemy sword wielders (especially those pesky swordmasters with Quick Riposte). An example off the top of my head, Red Canyon Dominance sword thieves have 14 attack speed and *will* double you. The Miklan map three chapters later has ambush spawn thieves with...14 attack speed at most I believe.

[@wolftamerwolfcorp7465]

On ingrid: to get both death and darting blow by level 20 requires some serious investment, especially because she is such a late bloomer so she wouldn’t be someone you’d throw at a lot of enemies every turn which is the way those results would appear in practicality without sitting on a map for a ton of time just grinding. She definitely can be good but is such an investment heavy unit in Bl which is why it’s her worst route. As to the whole “everything doubles you” issue, first and foremost it’s obviously hyperbole because armors just don’t double anything but maybe other armors, but more importantly there’s a reason that people say early maddening is easy the later you go pre time skip, because enemies really don’t scale that heavily, sure they’re still threatening enough but the aren’t nearly as scary as they had been or will be. Post time skip expect your faster units to struggle to double mid tier enemies in terms of speed from my experience.

[@flykiwibirb]

@@wolftamerwolfcorp7465 interesting points. I always leave the "maintaining your training" mission left undone until I'm ready to grind out an intermediate class with everyone (as almost everyone on my team wants two of those masteries between Deathblow, fiendish blow, hit + 20, and darting blow). I HATE grinding weapon ranks as you have to find enemies that are not strong enough to kill your unit equipped with a broken weapon, but not weak enough to die easily against your counterattacks. Class grinding I find to be not bad as you can just unequip your weapon against weak group of enemies -- a class grinding session set up right takes half an hour max. If Ingrid doesn't have both those abilities by level 20 you can just certify as a Wyvern but stay as a Pegasus until you get the mastery. Even so, yes, it's high investment, I will concede on that. I just find that out of house, she still REALLY suffers without axe investment (even considering her now higher str base, and the low authority and flying aren't great either) to the point that her only solid attacks are Burning Quake and Frozen Lance (or MAYBE a brave Lance quad attack). I recently did a Golden Deer playthrough with a recruited Ingrid, and that was my experience at least. I may be biased -- she got a permanent strength boost from classing into Falcon Knight -- she was THAT strength screwed. But my point is she has such a high chance of getting strength screwed without Deathblow and Wyvern certification that out of house I actually don't think she does well. The investment cost at that point to make her good is too high and I would rather rely on Leonie (or even Ferdie) as my dodge tanks who don't do zero damage. In short -- yes she's high investment, but when she's in house you get the chance to do that investment. Sure, she has a slightly higher str base if recruited, but she'll still suck at doing anything other than dodging without high skill investment which she has missed out on so far. My experience is that high speed units can avoid being doubled by basically any mid tier enemy -- it's just the swords and pegasus knights that give me trouble, but I respect if your experience is different.

[@wolftamerwolfcorp7465]

@@flykiwibirb My issue with the investment Ingrid takes is that there are so many other viable options for the investment that’s being sunk into her, on other routes that investment requirement is cut down by quite aways in recruiting her later with better stats overall, it’s 6 in one half a dozen in the other regardless so down to preference. I personally only find earlier recruitment useful for units I want to use in an interesting class combination because they need the investment (like wyvern lord Lysithea) but then I’m also just someone who likes to do that goofy stuff so to each their own. I think we were looking at two sides of the same coin in regards to speed tiers, I view it as units in a speed tier that get most of their value from being able to double the mid tier enemies aren’t able to and you view it as them avoiding being doubled by those enemies.

[@scrapyarddragon]

@@wolftamerwolfcorp7465 just make her sylvain's adjutant for some paralogs. they have the super-supports that give extra attack power anyways so its a decent thing to do regardless.

[@sainaaron1595]

Cyril gets point-blank volley at C+ and comes with C rank bows. You don’t have to “baby him” at all he comes as a delete button

[@sorenfan1964]

Fact,yes A ch 6 Recruit Cyril can orko in his joining chapter with a steel Bow+ point blank volley and because that obviously wasn't good enough,he too learns Vengeance,yet is somehow all the way down in B+ Also what even is Petra doing there?

[@manolito.7zip]

He also has one of the highest strength growths, shares the highest speed growth with Ingrid, Leonie, Lysithea and such; he can be recruited as early as chapter 4 with the same weapon ranks and closer to promoting than most of your units. Cyril is honestly one of the best units in the game cuz bases don't matter, growths can be fixed and the only differentiating factors are availability and combat arts making him an actual god amongst men.

[@sainaaron1595]

@@sorenfan1964 Petra get down from there

[@cartooncritic7045]

He also joins at Level 9 the earliest opportunity you can get him. With just the two quest battles you get in that chapter he can rush through Fighter for Strength +2 and into a Brigand or Archer promotion for better combat than most of your in-house units might be providing at that point. He can handle any of the Archers in the Miklan Tower mission and is likely to even get Monster Breaker in time to shit all over the Black Beast boss. He's a great unit.

[@heathen2743]

You did Constance dirty. She's literally one of the most versatile units in the game. You like Lysithea's warp range? Constance's range for rescue is insane. She can bolting the more annoying units and doesn't need a special staff to reach far away units (mainly ballistae units). I never understood why you rated the warp availability as much as high as you do. It seems far more clutch in comparison to rescue too.

[@union_silver4858]

This. You’re clearly a man of culture.

[@duetopersonalreasonsaaaaaa]

Also, she can equip Bolting with at least 1 use and help support far away units in battle. She can give anywhere from Hit/Avo +3 at no support with that ally to Hit/Avo +10 with A support. With 3H's 2RN system, this can either be an unnoticeable bonus or it can spell disaster for the enemy.

[@formy52]

Can't wait to watch this during my lunch break.

[@caydenjohns2440]

You haven’t had lunch yet?

[@formy52]

@@caydenjohns2440 I'm in the UK, so it's actually nearly midnight. I guess I meant to say lunch tomorrow, but the effect is the same.

[@caydenjohns2440]

@@formy52oh sorry

[@arman_llc624]

@@caydenjohns2440 time zones

[@formy52]

@@caydenjohns2440 Hey, no harm done!

[@austinlubetkin]

Yuri with battalion vantage high crit and his crest which prevents follow up is really good. He’s windsweep and the build of dimitri with high speed to get crits

[@MetalGearRaxis]

Yuri gets A+ for having early Windsweep, which is only relevant against enemies with Counterattack of which the Death Knight, Rhea, and the Flame Emperor (omega lul) are the only ones in White Clouds, and for being really fast, while Petra, who is a faster unit than Yuri, is in B+. Okay!

[@Aquilenne]

Petra is only faster than Yuri at base by 1 point, while he has a slightly higher speed growth. On average he should eventually match her, gaining on average 1 extra speed per 20 levels, meanwhile he has the same strength growth as well as the same advantage over her in base strength that she has in base speed, and a much more reliable passive that can help him overcome the low strength issues that Petra/Ingrid have.

[@MetalGearRaxis]

@@Aquilenne First off, Petra hasn't got a low strength issue. Her base of 9 is perfectly good, and is in fact better than Ferdinand's 8. Her growth of 40% is average (50 and above is not a normal strength growth rate, only Edelgard, Dimitri, Dedue, Felix, Jeritza, Catherine, Balthus, and Raphael have a strength growth higher than 45% in this game). Secondly, Petra has Pegasus Knight access. Not only does Pegasus Knight gain access to Darting Blow, it has a 10% boost to speed. With that, she'll stay ahead of Yuri for the entire game, in practice.

[@Aquilenne]

​@@MetalGearRaxis I agree, she doesn't have the worst possible strength. But that doesn't mean that she has a good one either. If you want to make the same comparison on the other side, the only units with a worse strength growth than her are Hubert, Dorothea, Bernadetta, Linhart, Mercedes, Ashe, Anette, Ingrid, Lysithea, Ignatz and Marianne. Most of which are mages, Ignatz has rally utility, and not many are going to argue that Ingrid is better, or that Ashe isn't trash. Ferdinand might have a lower base strength, but he also has a higher growth, and more importantly is carried hard by Swift Strikes where Petra has nothing comparable. It's the same deal when comparing to Leonie who has the same issue as Petra, but is carried by Point Blank Volley. Sure, with Pegasus Knight Petra can keep the speed advantage over Yuri, but then in doing so she ended up mastering Pegasus Knight which means she probably either didn't master archer for hit +20 making for shakier hit rates, didn't master brigand for even worse strength issues, or was stuck cycling between intermediate classes making her a worse by comparison for a time compared to ones that only mastered archer/brigand then went straight into advanced classes, this is especially true if you didn't speed-recruit her (and thus lost out on building a different early b support recruit early on) since late recruits don't come with their intermediate classes already mastered. Meanwhile, even with darting blow, Petra is still going to be struggling to double Falcon Knights/Assassins unless you sink every speed boosting item into her, while they're both easily going to be fast enough to double the mid-speed tier enemies while Yuri does more damage per hit. For example, on chapter 10 of my golden deer playthrough, my Pegasus Knight Leonie (Who has roughly equal speed to what Yuri or Petra would have by that point) has 28 speed, which doubles everything (Mid tier speed enemies being at ~17 AS) without Darting Blow making them functionally equal when it comes to speed against them except that Yuri hits harder, except for assassin Kronya, who has 44 speed and also doesn't care either way. Petra can attack into her, get doubled back and die from two 42 attack hits, Yuri can chip at her with Windsweep without any risk of retaliation, and hit harder while doing so. Personally I'm not a fan of either of them and feel that between Sylvain, Seteth, Dimitri, Byleth, Leonie, Cyril, Dedue, Catherine, Shamir and maybe Felix for physical units, I've never felt like either are worth using, but I can definitely see why someone might prefer Yuri who hits harder and can chip threatening enemies more easily.

[@MetalGearRaxis]

@@Aquilenne Well actually Petra's niche is she's the only unit in the game who has an Axe and Flying boon and access to Battalion Wrath. Claude comes close, but he starts Axe neutral and Barbarossa doesn't grant Avoid+10. Build Petra to stack avoid (Wyvern Lord, Alert Stance+, Evasion Ring, maybe give her an adjutant bot for further extra avoid). It's really quite easy to bring enemy hit rates down to 0% in this game. From there, treat Petra the way you would Dimitri, only focus on having her avoid the incoming attack and then striking back with a crit, not on having her attack first and killing the attacker. This has the benefit of allowing Petra to operate in situations where Dimitri might fail to kill his target. Examples of this are siege weapons (can't counter those even with Retribution), Fortress Knights (Dimitri on average struggles to one-shot them even with a crit since they come with Armored Blow, which reduces his incoming crit damage by a huge 18), monsters (which might survive a crit), or warriors (which have lancebreaker). Since Petra looks to dodge the attack instead of killing her attacker first, it's not a big deal if she fails to kill the attacker with her counter. Now I hear you bringing up "but what if she gets hit by a gambit, she doesn't have Dimitri's charm!" Charm caps out on manipulating gambit accuracy at a difference of just 6. If you have 7 or more charm higher than the enemy, you're getting no further benefit from that. You can easily build up charm from consumable items, high-level battalions, or spamming tea times with them (you generally don't have as much to spend exploration points on in part 2). Treat Petra as you would a less destructive (though still plenty destructive) Dimitri that can enter dangerous areas more flexibly. I do want to address the point about not being able to double Swordmasters, Assassins, and FalcoKnights... Well duh. Of course Petra can't, those things are ridiculously tough to double naturally, that's when you use Brave Weapons or Brave Arts. Silver Bows cripple Falcos quite nicely, though. I also don't know why you'd attack Kronya that way, it's better to hit her with a gambit first. Byleth and your lords land gambits on her easily, making her much easier to kill.

[@harcray830]

@@MetalGearRaxis Claude has a budding talent in Axe i think

[@manolito.7zip]

Sylvain also gets the lance of ruin very early making him able to OHKO with its combat art, aside from an early recruited Catherine and an early recruited Cyril after getting point blank volley, he'll be your first unit capable of somewhat reliably killing enemies in one round, honestly that allong with swift strikes and his generally decent tanking abilities when in paladin makes him a unit worthy of S tier

[@huntersmith1413]

Cyril does not kill reliably at base with PBV and there isnt much statboosters to go around unless you spoonfeed him all the str fruit that should be going to dimitri/sylvain

[@IWish2500]

Main thing I disagree with is Constance. Having bolting and the crest of Noa that shows up every now and then, you can get usually get 5-6 boltings per map

[@tjskill6460]

Could you make a battalions tier list? That would be interesting.

[@naiRISE766]

holy monks stride S tier cause availability lol

[@self-sustainedauto-canibal6207]

@@naiRISE766Ash and dust D tier cause availability lol

[@paladinslash4721]

Marianne is not like Dorothea at all. They have a sword talent, physic, and thoron but that is where it ends. The thing Marianne has over Dorothea is her flying talent which allows her to get darting blow easier, in which Dorothea has a bane in flying.

[@biandanxious3438]

But Dorothea has better charm and a better magic list and a better ability. And she can be a very good dodge tank with her hidden talent. I still think they are both good but Marianne isn’t a lot better than Dorothea.

[@enduringidealist]

Marianne also has slightly better growths, riding boon for Dark Knight or Mov. +1 as a Dancer, and Frozen Lance.

[@RestorerForer]

But both of them are more support mages than attack mages... Dorothea with darting blow still won’t outspeed a Lysithea, and even Lysithea hardly doubles anything

[@paladinslash4721]

@@RestorerForer Lysithea’s issue is that her spells are heavier and she doesn’t have much in the ways of weight negation.

[@thereaIitsybitsyspider]

I like using Marianne as my healer because Silence is super clutch

[@tkpaura8926]

So, Dimitri should one shot ever unit with battalion Wrath/Vantage because of his insane Str. My Dark Knight Magic Dimitri wants to speak with you. I swear, we just want to talk.

[@Nubbletech]

And ask how physical Dimitri is so much better?

[@RestorerForer]

“Goody basket is the best skill in the game” Care to elaborate...? Or was that a joke

[@AdamWithFED]

I have a whole video about how good it actually is! If you max out Raph’s luck, he will have a 50% chance to heal up to 7 or 8 HP per turn by endgame. If you use all 99 turns you are allowed any given map, then he will recover nearly 400 hp per map! That is worth 40 uses of a vulnerary! It is so good!

[@WHEREAMIHELP1]

@@AdamWithFED Incredible! Goody Basket alone truly does make Raphael an SSS+ tier unit!

[@RestorerForer]

@@AdamWithFED I’m still confused if you’re being sarcastic or not. Just slap renewal on him. Most characters have a good personal skill that is unique or has a large impact- such as Ignatz getting more hit, Balthus or Bernie just getting more stats... Renewal always activates, heals more, and even then Raph shouldn’t be taking damage in the first place. If the skill WAS on someone else (like you mentioned) I would sort of understand, but even then it’s still outclassed by Renewal, and also defeats the point of having a healer using physic, rendering your support units more useless.

[@aleisshiki3649]

@@RestorerForer it was a joke :3 he has a whole joke video about it

[@RestorerForer]

@@aleisshiki3649 it just sounds like the logic a noob would make, Way too realistic to distinguish

[@GetsugaUnbridled]

The continued disrespect to Petra...

[@MetalGearRaxis]

Yuri gets A+ for having early Windsweep, which is only relevant against the Death Knight because most bosses only have 1 or 1-2 range until Chapter 11 so Curved Shot does the same thing, and for being really fast, while Petra, who is a faster unit than Yuri and gets Curved Shot earlier, is in B+. Okay!

[@GetsugaUnbridled]

@@MetalGearRaxis admittedly yuri has a higher speed growth but I agree with you. The death knight is am exception because windsweep allows for no counterattack whereas death knight can ORKO you at any range maddening

[@MetalGearRaxis]

@@GetsugaUnbridled Better to just smack him with Vengeance.

[@harcray830]

@@MetalGearRaxis In my opinion petra should be A tier she has godlike speed and pretty dawn easy path to the broken wyvern lord class and yuri it's actually faster than her but both still fast as fuc

[@jackdias9263]

Ingrid deserves a higher spot imo. As a Pegasus Knight and Falcon Knight she’s such a damn good magic tank, which is really valuable with the amount of strong enemy mages later in Azure Moon. Disclaimer: I’ve only played on Hard, not maddening.

[@pearsemolloy9656]

No you’re right I used Ingrid on Maddening and she was amazing she basically soloed the entire final map apart from Edelgard.

[@union_silver4858]

okay whilst i agree the reasoning is shoddy, ingrid isn’t good because of her stats, she’s good because of her boons, combat arts and general flier utility, She’s basically a free Falcoknight, you can’t go wrong with that, in maddening flying utility and reliable chip is key

[@jackdias9263]

@@union_silver4858 those are what justify FED’s placement, and I agree with that. I’m arguing that her additional route-specific value as an easy Pegasus/Falcon warrants her a slightly higher spot.

[@SPZ-gv2on]

My ingrid died around chapter 5 and I didn't notice until chapter 10-ish. Pretty obvious how important she was to my army.

[@scrapyarddragon]

Honestly I have no idea how you're supposed to beat chapter 2 maddening WITHOUT the chalice but gosh dang that magic cup resulted in my dimitri being level 10 super early while I was trying to get the rest of the scrubs just to level 5... Also caspar is definitely worth recruiting. Not by investing support, and not to actually use him, but because you need him for the mercedes paralog in part 2. The rafail gem is pretty handy since it lets you put a flier somewhere the devs wanted to be a no-fly zone due to archers. Plus, brawling is good and worth getting a couple ranks in if you can.

[@envoy2500]

I agree that Constance is the worst Ashen Wolf, but I don't think she shouldn't be 2 tiers away from Lysithia when their stats are practically identical. I don't think Lysithia should go down a tier, so I think Constance should have been bottom of A+ instead

[@IntrusiveThot420]

FED, I still really disagree with your assessment of Dedue (though not his placement). He is S+ tier in chapters 1, 2, and 3, which are the hardest in the game without question, especially with modern strats that trivialize ch13. So he's hard to rank and I agree he belongs in A, but with Dedue, it's about being good at the right time.

[@union_silver4858]

hmmm, imma have to disagree chief, ch5 is the hardest first off, secondly byleth + dimitri is all you really need for 1,2 and 3, dedue’s just a tank that’s all, i don’t see the appeal of him tbh. Maybe for slower casual play he’s alright but just make everyone fliers...

[@IntrusiveThot420]

@@union_silver4858 what's so hard about Gautier Inheritance? If you're having trouble, just check a wiki for the ambush spawn locations, and be sure to body block the fortress knight ally so he gets merked by the casters early on. Dedue's tankiness ironically enables much faster play in ch1-3, since he can pull more than one enemy into range for your casters and archers and then get your heavy hitters to follow up. This is in contrast to needing to wait and bait everything extremely slowly

[@union_silver4858]

@@IntrusiveThot420 my guy, do you even maddening? Even if it’s not hard, it’s harder than 1,2 and 3. I think the maddening ch5 memes speak for themselves

[@austinlubetkin]

You never talk about meteor and bolting on characters. Constance is made for bolting with her crest that conserves attack magic and insane range with the attack power of lysithea

[@2nii2]

Yeah lol i did a multiple runs where i used the 3 bolting users as gremorys and well i just nuked every single thing!

[@shiniselune399]

Honestly the issue with Constance is that she has the attack power of lysithea but a spell list that is objectively much worse than her. Bolting is all she has in maddening that's actually great and she will very often be unable to ORKO an ennemy because they will have a couple HP left. but that's just my opinion.

[@MajinMattPlays]

Really the only major problem I see here is putting Lysithea an entire tier above Sylvain and Seteth. I think her abilities are helpful but I'm not sure if they're a tier of difference above the Swift Strike users especially considering that she's going to be less convenient to recruit than some other units and the only thing she offers is Damage and Warp. I know you value Warp way higher than I do so I'm not going into that right now but I just think that Seteth and Sylvain should probably move up rather than moving Lysithea down. Still a dope list and I hope to see what you do for the other routes if you do them!

[@ScottiHubba]

Doing a Blue Lions playthrough at moment using Mercedes as a War Cleric for S&Gs. Its fun.

[@kendjacedric8813]

I think you can get rid of Ingrid weaknesses by making her an assassin or a flying dodge tank which pretty easy actually But yeah she still has bad str

[@jessicaheeren7692]

Swordmaster ingrid with astra is pretty good

[@kendjacedric8813]

@@jessicaheeren7692 0 x 5 is still 0 XD But yeah it can be viable even on maddening if she's str blessed

[@hexmaniacciaran]

I feel like I’ve gotten very lucky with Ingrid based on what others have, taking her through wyvern rider helps

[@teleshar]

I love how this is a "Blue Lions" tier list, yet the only unit from the Blue Lions in S tier or above is Dimitri.

[@stonnyj]

Next time you make a teir list video you should have the character your talking about's picture on like the corner of the screen, i found myself searching all over for speific characters and it was kinda hard to find who you were talking about. Just my 2 cents

[@rhettmitchell]

Bruh I don’t think he understands how good Constance is. Same magic growth as Lysithea and could possibly have like 6 bolting uses. And fimbulvetr and agnea’s arrow are nothing to sneeze at either. And she can always be overleveled with using ward and rescue every single turn she isn’t one shotting someone. She’s saved my units countless times on maddening either with rescue or taking out someone threatening with bolting. It’s way better than meteor. Hits harder AND has more uses. She’s the only unit who can use the spell well since the other ones are Manuela and Hilda

[@harcray830]

I agreed constance should be A+ at least

[@greydonmccall9680]

My first play through was crimson flower, and for the most part I had a varied set of units just based on what I remembered from playing the fire emblem with Lyn, however my 2nd play through was golden deer and I used exclusively flying classes (and holy knight mercedes just bc) so now for my 3rd play through, blue lions, I'm using no mounted or flying units

[@hirluth2261]

Why so much hate for Constance... She is a super powerful magic unit, easy dark pegasus, and she has siege tome, which, with her crest, gives her the ability to get more uses if lucky, and she just strait up one shot a lot of unit with it. Plus, on the final map of blue lion, with 2 fulguration she can knock out the dark mage with the long range tome that let you with 1 hp, which is super useful because it also despawn a lot of enemies

[@erikbell1723]

Personally I think only recruit to unlock paralogues generally since it destructs from units you basically have to use. Unless you are just comfortable killing off characters in chapter 13z Also Annie’s high damage and great accuracy is under rated. Especially with Valk

[@erikbell1723]

Also I think rescue and warp are swapped in utility in maddening, unless you are like focused on single turning maps with Dimitri I guess

[@SPZ-gv2on]

It's really easy to just warpskip and 1-turn more than half the game with either dimitri or byleth assuming you have a good range warper and stride. Rescue is incredible on maddening but warp ends maps before enemies get a chance to move. Especially if you farm speed carrots and rocky burdocks for them and use killer weapons.

[@rhettmitchell]

@@SPZ-gv2on yeah but you really don’t want to do that often on maddening since you get so much EXP from the main story missions

[@JonSmith-hk1bq]

Positive: We're finally starting to realize that Manuela's Warp is terrible and there are a bunch of better options with characters that can do something other than Warp. Negative: She's STILL too high. A small Reason magic list, with Bolting, likely out of reach thanks to a bane in Reason. Faith magic doesn't have a strong healing option making her one of the worst healers in the game. Outside of Warp, her Faith spells are focused on neutralizing Magic enemies, which tend to be relatively squishy. Poor growths in general, particularly in magic. Nothing special in Combat Arts. Rally Charm is less useful by the time you finally get her. Perhaps the most difficult character to level-up. Can't even make her a Dancer. Basically, if you have Manuela, you're putting in a lot of time and effort to have a very limp Warp when you have three other characters that easily outclass her on that front and all of whom have utility outside of a single Warp.

[@flowerpixel]

This is my first FE game and I didn't understand all the Ingrid hate. She's fantastic! But then you explained on *maddening* she's awful >_

[@chrispo7610]

Its mostly the dedue thing lol

[@evanjones5754]

Pretty good tier list, but manuela should be above hanneman. She has warp. Hanneman doesn't. Manuela is the only "free" warp user that you can get with no investment in either getting a b support or grinding useless weapon ranks without dlc hapi. Her warp is far more useful than any chip damage hanneman can do in the midgame. Also I think annette is a bit underrated, you didn't bring up lightning axe. Lightning axe wyvern lord annette isn't a meme, it's her best bet to be relevant late game. She has great utility early game with rallies, spot healing and some magic chip, and she can transition super easily to reliably one shotting enemies with a silver axe+ lightning axe on maddening, even on the final few maps. That's far more useful than any chip damage hanneman can do at that point. He joins late and is an ok combat unit and has good chip damage and that's it. Hardly worth a tier in my opinion, when annette is ranked lower and has much better utility early game, and better damage output mid to late game. Anyways thanks for making the list, I know people can kinda be dickheads in the comments. Keep it up!

[@armads1988]

I completely agree. Specially in BL where she can even get Crusher and freaking Dust.

[@hayleyrenshaw7605]

Personally I would’ve put Bernadetta way lower and maybe bumped Felix up to S tier but other than that I pretty much agree with everything!! Nice video!

[@Autotomize]

“Way lower” how come?

[@kevinbach7148]

Sigh... Since the Gatekeeper win CYL5 and high tier in 3H I don't know you haven't place him.

[@n2badsam420]

Yeah since everyone is simping for gatekeeper and i am glad marianne won the female poll and when cyl5 heroes will be available to summon i will choose marianne

[@rhettmitchell]

@@n2badsam420 same

[@zekdom]

I’m doing a New Game+ Maddening run with Blue Lions at the moment... I think Ingrid is best used as a dodge-tank or a Dark Flier with Thrysus. I’m trying Dark Flier with Fiendish Blow, Reason Prowess, Vantage, Wrath, and Defiant Crit. The idea is that, if I position her to accumulate enough damage, not even Archers/Snipers can attack her. Now that she’s promoted, she’s really useful. But yeah, my Sylvain and Felix are killing it.

[@harcray830]

I agree 100% with this tier list good job FED The only thing i would complain about is that bernie is definitely better than hanneman and ignatz and that constance should be higher but this still a great tier list :) Edit: Why is petra so low :( she has easy access to wyvern lord and it's pretty damn fast!!

[@phoenix5054]

Ingrid ended up an S class character on my 2nd run. She had high speed and is simply the best avoid tank along with dancer Yuri.

[@silversword404]

I have to admit, Ingrid is decent when it comes to magic. She’s practically Constance before Constance came out. Her white magic and black magic spell list is pretty good

[@lovabletroll2212]

I personally would put Catherine and Shamir behind Seteth since their stat advantage tends to even out once the other units catch up and can access those classes (chapter 10-12 in my experience), and recruiting them super early to really benefit from their adv classes (i.e. chapter 5 and/or 6) can be rather difficult. Also, Ingrid should be in C tier behind Raph and Caspar since they have easy access to death blow so they can at least do damage. Overall a great list.

[@hgesler]

I quitted my first try already in madd and I choose blue lion, with the ilussion to use only houve members. All was cool until part 2. First two missions I failed more than I care to say, especial because ive lost dudue and annete’s father is not as Good as him. So i quitted the route after 240 hours in the save (only the wins, no re-over because I lost someone and had no re du, so I forced game over to try again. Although I played in Classic, I can’t accept loosing a character, so any deaths in a lost to me.

[@quickpawmaud]

I have just started playing maddening for the first time and after getting everyone to max build using the in house units I think Dedue is the best. I neglected him for a long time but I watched Rengor’s tier list video and tried out Warmaster with Killer Lance, Vegence, Lance Prowess, Vantage, Wrath, Deathblow (will try to replace with Lancefaire but I am only at B Lance in like chapter 20 since I leveled him in Axes and neglected Lance completely until he showed up again in part 2) and Hit +20. I think it is much easier to manage HP than it is to manage Battalions since if Dimitri loses his Battalion he can’t really do anything since that is a lot of stats. I still think Dimitri is one of my best units along with Byleth but I kind of neglect that build and just go max health Battalion at the start of every map and use him normally. Ingrid and Sylvain are probably my worst performers but they can still be useful. I am using Byleth all Blue Lion students and Dancer Dorothea. Annette and Ashe were really bad in part 1 I didn’t even deploy Ashe most of the time and used Shamir instead but once part 2 started I got him into Sniper and mastered it and now my go to strategy for killing monsters is breaking with Byleth, finishing their first bar with Annette, then Hunter’s Volley with Killer Bow Ashe usually like 95% crit and then dance for him and do it again bye bye monster in one turn. He has much more crit than Shamir now for some reason and I gave him some strength boosters plus I think he got kinda blessed. Annette has like 50 Magic and one shots everything with her high level spells. I kind of messed up with Felix and went Swordmaster and make him use his shield. He never doubles and is basically worse than Catherine in every way but I gave him a forged Wo Dao and he has like 75% crit so he is decent. I went male Byleth in his default class using Shield of Seiros and Silver swords mostly he one shots stuff with Death Blow and double Faire. I would rank them probably Dedue, Byleth, Dimitri, Annette, Ashe, Sylvain (great utility with the stride gambit and he can one round with Swiftstrikes consistently after some Dex boosts and Accuracy ring) Ingrid (gave her most of my Speed boosts lately she has over 40 speed now but still can’t one round consistently) Felix, Mercedes (still amazing but only heals and Stride which since I have Elixirs and Healing Focus plus Byleth and Annette can heal it is not as important) Dorothea I don’t really know where to rank she just dances for people mostly Ashe and Annette. I played on Maddening Casual New Game+ fuck ambush reinforcements. Just ranking based on part 2 combat pretty much once they are in their final class and build although in part 1 I mainly used Catherine and Shamir to do most things since my students sucked. I also think flying kind of sucks. Like sure it lets you go places but they can’t go into enemy range ever since there are archers all over every map and they get one shot on top of being frail against nonarchers and getting one rounded anyways.

[@g.n.s.153]

I think it's important to note what the Blue Lions students need more help with; range attacks (mostly with magic). I like Annette's accuracy a lot for Maddening mode but she is weaker than the average when it comes to damage and Mercedes offensively is good but not much more than that. In-house Ashe is still decent, Dimitri is an awesome Bow Knight and Felix can make a great Sniper so great bow users are still appreciated but not as necessary. Basically good mages and to a lower extend archers are very valuable recruits is what I'm trying to say. Dedue really shine with Vengeance since he can equip 2 relics (Lance of Ruin/Luin and Aegis Shield) to deals himself 20 damage after combat which make him a lot easier to use than Bernadetta with the same build. Personally Warp range is not that valuable to me. Warp is Warp and Warp is good. I don't need an extra criteria. I love Rescue too. Getting armor rank on Byleth isn't that bad if you use it to get a few extra points of bulk with the armor knight certification.

[@cartooncritic7045]

Weight -3 is also cool if Byleth is using heavy weapons like Bows and Axes a lot, which they probably are whether you’re taking them down the Wyvern path or not.

[@2nii2]

Honestly i think anna is similar to manuela but much worse Thier growth are similar and both of thier personal skill is related to luck Thier spell list is the same but anna is just inferior so Manuela spells are thunder and bolgonone and bolting and ward and scilence and of course warp But Anna gets fire thunder and meteor and ward and rescue See? Anna is just worse manuela

[@weadon44]

I’m pretty sure every instance where there’s a locked door, there is also an enemy who has a door key, so u don’t even need to bother buying door keys. Poor Ashe.

[@duetopersonalreasonsaaaaaa]

If you plan ahead, you have no need for flying lockpick. But going in blind, he can really come in clutch. I'd say each subsequent playthrough on the same route he loses more of his value.

[@flykiwibirb]

Wyvern Rider Annette in chapter 13 can help save you from a soft-lock - especially with the Nuvelle Fliers Corps (which she'll easily access with her great authority). Just make sure to grab Fiendish Blow and Hit + 20 (kinda hard with her weakness in bows, but oh so worth it -- and easier to achieve with her in house). Her spell list is actually trash lol -- her reason attack spells will perform about the same as Linhardt's.

[@armads1988]

I understand you take availability in consideration, but I really don't have that hard of a time recruiting Ferdinand. Usually get him in chapter 6 but in one run I even got him in ch5. Probably the best dodge tank in the game if you make him a WL and even has swift strikes. But overall great list!

[@p0oka261]

I mean hes not as good as dmitri but yeah he's pretty good

[@cartooncritic7045]

Recruiting Ferdinand is pretty routine for me. I train Byleth's Armor rank because I like having Weight -3 stacking with Strength/Speed +2, which lets Byleth reach doubling thresholds with several enemy types considerably earlier than without it, and they also don't get weighed down as much by the free Steel Sword you get from an early quest, which means you can use that for Wrath Strike and such more reliably with fewer drawbacks, and that's not even mentioning how useful it is for Bows. Sure, it won't be as effective after Chapter 7 or so, but it's so good early-game that I have to have it. And yeah, getting Ferdinand to C+ Support is a total non-issue, especially if you're investing in recruiting Lorenz early for Thyrsus since they have a Bond Support together a la Felix, Sylvain, and Ingrid.

[@seda_11]

The issue is that you have to waste a lot of time getting heavy armor ranks for just one character, when you could be working on other stuff that Byleth wants to actually use. Like sure it’s POSSIBLE to recruit Ferdinand early enough if you try super hard, but you gotta take that opportunity cost into account. Especially compared to people like Dorothea that are super easy to recruit.

[@cartooncritic7045]

@@seda_11 You have plenty of time to raise Byleth’s ranks to the necessary thresholds to recruit everyone in Part 1. The Blue Lions in particular are a low-maintenance house where you shouldn’t have to recruit a ton of people for general combat units or utility, so you have plenty of freedom to do whatever you want with Byleth skills and still be able to recruit everyone by the time skip. If we’re factoring in opportunity costs, Heavy Armor is a skill worth investing in early just for Armor promotion bases and Weight -3 alone, so getting Ferdinand around Chapter 6 is a total non-issue.

[@seda_11]

@@cartooncritic7045 Being able to recruit someone in part 1 is one thing, but you shouldn't pretend like there are no differences between getting heavy armor early game compared to stuff like authority or swords or whatever. If you have to go out of your way to recruit someone, it brings them down according to this tier list. If you want to make your own tier list where being more difficult (but still POSSIBLE) to recruit does not affect their ranking, then go for it.

[@heith1229]

I would have personally placed Marianne higher. I also agree Bernadette isn't really that great. rescue isn't really a point in her favor since you put her through an archer class and she's never going to get access to it

[@IntrusiveThot420]

Counterpoint: bernie can one-shot Nemesis with all the elites still alive because of how utterly broken Vengeance is. How many units can do that? Her, Cyril, and Lysithea. That's basically it.

[@shiniselune399]

Haha Ingrid. She doesn't even get a spot as an adjutant in my current blue lions roster.

[@TazTheYellow]

TBH this tier list was going great, until you underrated Annette and Ingrid, and then *doubled down* on underrating Ingrid. Lord, where do I even *begin* on how heavily you underrated Ingrid? You put *Manuela,* a worse Ingrid with a bad Warp who, if you want to use it, is basically stuck in either Bishop or Trickster (if you have the DLC) at endgame, a whole half a tier above Ingrid, who can actually *learn* Physic if you put her down that route. You had this whole anecdote about making Hilda your Dancer and giving a massive bonus to Sylvain, while Ingrid is actually better-suited to the Dancer role in the Blue Lions thanks to her Sword and Riding boons, which let her more easily train for that role in-house if so desired, while *also* giving the exact same bonus to Sylvain at A Support. Do not even get me started on how you nearly put Leonie in A+ *just for Point-Black Volley* while Petra and Ingrid languish in the squalor of B+ and B, even though *none of those three should be having trouble doubling in the first place.* Ingrid has an edge, need I remind you, in getting and giving extra damage to and from Sylvain and Felix, not to mention her Relic with a combat art that coverts her massive Speed directly into damage, *not to mention* her personal skill and high Charm stat making her an extremely potent user of offensive gambits. In other words, just for being your best Dancer choice on this route alone, Ingrid easily deserves top of B+ (beside Marianne) at the very least, but her flexibility and other qualities should easily shoot her to the top of A, if not the bottom of A+, the same row as her comrades, where she belongs. And on that note, forget your Leonie bias! While she is a better recruit than Petra, I wouldn't put her over half a tier above her. In fact, you know what I'd like to do? Swap her with the other orange-haired girl that I said you underrated earlier, Annette. Neither Petra nor Leonie are worth recruiting over Ingrid and I would like it if their placements reflected this. By your own words, even, Annette should be at *least* where Ignatz is, as you said you put Ignatz where he was because he was "Annette if she had some sort of utility outside of Rallying," but . . . she does though? She has high-accuracy Wind Magic, and, *exclusive to this route,* near-perfect availability, a tailor-made Guard Adjutant for Part 2, and *access to the highest Might combat art in all of Three Houses.* Once she learns Lightning Axe and gets some Bolt Axes for range, she has the flexibility to even go down the traditional physical class route with her own spin on it (just substituting Mage and Fiendish Blow for Brigand and Death Blow). In short, it is woefully ignorant to suggest that Annette has no utility outside of being a rallybot--particularly in Blue Lions!--while, in the same breath, suggesting that Ignatz does. Finally, and this one really doesn't upset me *too* much, but honestly, put Ferdinand between Caspar and Anna; as great as he is, he might as well not even exist on this route. tl;dr: Ingrid to top of A, Leonie and Annette swapped, Ferdinand to between Caspar and Anna.

[@shiniselune399]

Not gonna comment about ingrid since we have already debated about her in another video and uh "agreed to disagree". I would like to point out the fact that wind magic is probably the worst magic type, at least in maddening mode since the (unnecessarily) high accuracy comes at the cost of lower damage. She would have 100% chance to hit with fire/lightning magic anyway except maybe for the first two chapter.

[@avet4952]

yeah buts shes racist

[@union_silver4858]

bro ngl, the whole quartet of leonie, petra, hilda and ingrid (? debatable for ingrid but eh, flier, relic weapon xD)are so good i don’t think the difference in their places matters that much, they should all be just somewhere in S-

[@TazTheYellow]

@@avet4952 Me talking about Ingrid as a unit: Tina Turner's The Best Me talking about Ingrid as a character: Chumbawamba's Everything You Know Is Wrong

[@stormslasher9471]

I’ll never se the appeal for bernadetta maybe it’s just me but she’s such a risk to use she never damages anything or anyone same thing for ignatz both should be lower

[@IntrusiveThot420]

IMO divine pulse makes bernie totally free to use. Pass + vengeance is stupid.

[@elroliz9442]

Nope, she is easy to use dude.

[@stormslasher9471]

@@elroliz9442 easy to use who can’t damage anything 😴

[@elroliz9442]

@Storm Slasher Wrong again. She has the same damage output than Dimitri at the beginning of the game when she has her personal skill active. It's fine if you don't like her dude.

[@stormslasher9471]

@@elroliz9442 HUH? no she doesn't no she's mid at best you're just being bias

[@sainaaron1595]

Circadian beat actually works differently. It’s actually in the sun or not in sun. So chapters like the one vs lonato gives her str/mag even though it’s outdoors. So she gets the STR/MAG buff WAY more

[@cartooncritic7045]

Also worth noting that a lot of the really hard maps in AM are either indoors or have poor lighting in general, so she still ends up with the Str/Mag buff when she needs them.

[@rhettmitchell]

Agree

[@nick3805]

I hereby announce that I won't stop fighting for justice! And justice is: -Ashe above Gilbert - Ashe above Lorenz - Ashe above Hanneman - Ashe above Ignatz I say it again, again, again, again, again, again, again, again, aaaaagaaaaain, aaaaaaaaagain again: Just keep him away from bows and without any investment he'll slay everyone with that axe or lance of his. But in extreme, you will wan't his high dex, high speed, above average luck, and his worst stats actually becoming good due the classes he wants to be in: Wyvern Rider or Paladin. He doesnt get much else, but he wont need it, since he is one of the few units that can actually do his jobs without combat arts or heroes relicts. But to be honest, I disagree with the whole list except Raphael and Anna at the bottom and Dimitri at the top, especially with Catherine when she's literally just the worse version of Felix and Hapi when everything about her screams average or underwhelming (except spells, which are partly really good, but not that good tbh), and her personal skill which I never use because she gets doubled even by fortress knights on hard mode. Also, her hidden talent is useless, her weakness in authority just a pain, and overall she' always struggeling to keep up with the other mages, and even Constance, the character with the de facto lowest growth in the game is easily able to outshine her in every Aspect, even stat-wise. Physic is nice and all, just as is warp, but that can not compensate her overall underwhelming performance.

[@Aquilenne]

I'd have put Marianne higher. She's much better than Dorothea to me, especially in the route with Dedue. Having access to both Physic and Silence in a single support unit has felt broken to me. Personally I rate her higher than Mercedes, but I get that she's less available. Silence is so good when you can pick off the lone mage (Or pair of mages) hanging out behind a wave of physical enemies who swarm onto and kill anyone but your fortress knights if they try to bait, since it opens up the option for Fortress/Great Knight Dedue/Sylvain to just walk in and draw out all of then while making 8+ counterattacks to soften them up for everyone else to finish on the following player phase.

[@pepeelghetto1231]

I´m tired of people saying bernadetta is the best too lol

[@pepeelghetto1231]

People trying to optimize even your freaking dancer pick is annoying XD

[@cwebb6737]

Hey FED im curious, would you ever do a chapter 5 maddening guide? That chaoter is freaking brutal and i cant figure it out. If not maybe some tips?

[@MajorIzan]

This Tierlist is inaccurate Ashe isn't even in S+. I'm downvoting!

[@zeldaworld7]

I feel like dimitri is one of the best units in the franchise.

[@MetalGearRaxis]

Not even close

[@duetopersonalreasonsaaaaaa]

Seth do be existing tho

[@biandanxious3438]

Petra.......is way too low. She has a better strength growth.

[@AdamWithFED]

Didn’t even watch the video... Jk I don’t care haha 🥺

[@biandanxious3438]

@@AdamWithFED I was mainly joking. But it turned out to be true lol 😂

[@biandanxious3438]

@@AdamWithFED My Leonie in the maddening play through I’m doing has 13 strength stat.... My Petra has 19. I really am trying not to get frustrated with her. But she is awful in my play through.

[@deltoasuka7085]

@@biandanxious3438 yea thats how i was with ingrid she had 9 atk and 15 mag at one point even tf ually she started to get atk and i was feeding her all my atk boosters so she caught up

[@nick3805]

@@biandanxious3438 And that is the case for my 11 playthroughs with Sylvain but in every stat xD.

[@MetalGearRaxis]

Try bolting spam gremory constance

[@2nii2]

Yeah op but manuela and hilda do get bolting soooooooo BOLTING SPAM BABY!!!!!

[@MetalGearRaxis]

@@2nii2 There's a lot more to it than that, Constance is the only unit with Bolting who has a Reason boon and the magic (and crest) to use it.

[@2nii2]

@@MetalGearRaxis ok constance is the best bolting user but i used the other bolting users and surprisingly they were powerful and that's just my experience :)

[@aleisshiki3649]

Okay so I haven’t played with Yuri yet, so I don’t really know what I’m talking about, but why is he so much higher than Ingrid? They both have around the same speed, but Ingrid can easily get into Pegasus/falcon knight which tends to be better classes than what Yuri can have. They also seem to have around the same strength. Is it mainly because of wind sweep? Because other than that they seem pretty similar to me. I’m probably missing something

[@cloudcleaver23]

Do the ranged counterattacks from the Chalice of Beginnings use Magic/Res or Strength/Def to calculate damage?

[@AdamWithFED]

It uses whatever you have equipped at the time to attack. So if you are attacking with a physical weapon, it will use str/def. If using magic, it will use mag/res.

[@dakotapritt1047]

Are you planning on doing the other houses/paths?

[@fishnutz5196]

I dont know aye i had a Ingrid in Falcon Knight on Maddening with Lance Prowess 5, Death Blow, Darting Blow, Alert Stance + and Lance Crit 10. She was my 3rd best unit behind Felix and Dimitri. But im not gonna get mad cause its your opinion haha

[@cartooncritic7045]

You know, if you raised anyone's Armor ranks even a tiny bit, you can promote them to Armor Knight at 10 and given them a great deal better durability. That's an automatic boost to base 30 HP and 12 Def if they don't have it already, and odds are only Dedue is likely to have that kind of stat spread by Level 10 unless everyone on your team got Defense-blessed. Methinks your opinions on Petra, Leonie, and even Ferdinand if you considered such prostects.

[@duetopersonalreasonsaaaaaa]

Armor Knight requires C Axe and Heavy Armor D, that feels like too high of an ask if you're not already pursuing those skills. However Lysithea who was an Armor Knight for 2 seconds suddenly having a lot better HP/Def as a Warlock is meme worthy.

[@cartooncritic7045]

@@duetopersonalreasonsaaaaaa Most physical units want at least D+ Axes anyway for Death Blow, and D Armor is easy enough to make with without losing too much investment in their preferred ranks. Edelgard basically gets this for free and some units like Hilda and Ferdinand could easily hit those benchmarks with tutoring. You mentioning the Lysithea thing is funny, though, because the class bases of Armor Knight allow Lysithea, as a Mage, to take a round of combat against Ch7 Edelgard on Maddening with a Def-boosting meal from earlier in the month.

[@duetopersonalreasonsaaaaaa]

@@cartooncritic7045 Compared to Normal, Hard gives a -4 to weekday instructions, and Maddening -8. Unfortunately not even Serenes Forest has completely filled out data on skill gains. I might go grab my switch and fiddle around with Instruction during Lessons to see what my data sets show for Normal/Hard/Maddening, Weak/Neutral/Strong, and Bad/Good/Great/Perfect results. God that's gonna take a lot of time... Anyway! Here's a rough estimate based on the data readily available on Serenes Forest. This assumes the unit is Neutral to Heavy Armor, all the results are the average 'Good' result, and you're not Instructing the unit as that can lead to such variable results that I can't account for yet. However 1 Instruction with 4 Good results gives 16 skill EXP, which is equal to 2 Good Group Tasks. On Hard mode, you need 4 weeks of Weekday Focus + Group Tasks for D Heavy Armor. If you set Heavy Armor as only focus, you reach level D in 4 weeks without Group Tasks (3 weeks with group tasks). On Maddening, you need 5 weeks of Weekday Focus + Group Tasks for level D. With Heavy Armor as sole focus with or without Group Tasks, you can reach that in 4 weeks. With Axe (again assuming Neutral), you'll have to attack 12 times (Hard) / 10 times (Maddening) to match 1 week of Weekday Lessons, or 18 times (Hard) / 15 times (Maddening) for 1 week of Weekday Lessons with Axe as the sole focus. This is assuming the unit is using Axes in combat, which if they're a frailer unit, they more than likely won't, as a lot of frail units have banes in Axes. Given the cuts to skill EXP given on Hard but especially Maddening, I wouldn't at all pursue this method, even with the boost to HP/Def it gives. High rank skills are already hard enough to reach on any unit in Maddening without this method. Linhardt/Manuela/Hapi learn Warp at A and Lysithea at B, so it seems a waste to do this on them, even though they would greatly benefit from more durability. On units who would learn these skills easier or even actually use them in combat, they're already quite durable, and the effect isn't as needed in them. Edelgard, Ferdinand, Dedue, Hilda, Raphael, Alois and Balthus all have either all Strengths or a Strength + Budding in Axe/Heavy Armor, but they're not so frail that you're dying for less dying, lol. Hubert, Bernie, Linhardt, Dimitri, Mercedes, Annette, Lysithea, Marianne, Manuela, Hanneman, Flayn, Yuri, Constance and Hapi all have at least a Weakness + Neutral in Axes/Heavy Armor, and are almost all frailer units (Dimitri a notable exception, but he still has a bane in Axes so I included him). They'd love more HP/Def, hell anyone would on Maddening, but I think it bothers with their other skill ranks too much to justify it, especially since Maddening is able to be completed (and almost always is) without employing these strats, and they usually result in better offensive potential. In conclusion, I have no idea how to end this, but yeah Normal mode it'd be fun for the lolz but otherwise I don't think it's optimal. But honestly who cares enough about optimization to stop you from one shotting Hegemon Edelgard with a Lysithea who was given Fortress Knight drugs lolol

[@thereaIitsybitsyspider]

Can you explain in greater detail why Hanneman is in the top half of the cast? I've never found him anything more than high effort.

[@cartooncritic7045]

Some people think Hunter's Volley with a Magic Bow is a good build for him, not realizing that it'll still take an eternity of him being terrible in order to see such prospects, and the Levin Sword+ on Yuri or Marianne is still better.

[@tylerblanco7924]

On my Silver Snow maddening run, I tried using his proficiency in bows to make him a magic bow sniper w/hunters volley, since I heard it was a fun meme build. It took a bit of investment, but I was pretty impressed with the results. A lot of the tougher enemies have relatively low resistance, so the ability to deal magic damage from bow range is no joke.

[@cartooncritic7045]

@@tylerblanco7924 My problem with Sniper Hanneman is that he has to build up his Bow tank from a C to at least B+ or A, then he has to master Sniper which will take a while unless you strap the Knowledge Gem to him and set him on adjutant duty, because there’s no way he’s doing anything other than weak chip that anyone with a Bow and decent Strength can do better, and the Magic Bow isn’t around at all until Part 2 unless you forge for it. It’s probably fine, but I can’t see it being better than Bernadetta, Petra, Annette, etc.

[@personontheinternet1981]

Listen, Ashe on the Black Eagles route is valuable for 1 reason! Boots! Joking aside, I feel like you're highly undervaluing Annette's value in the early game. Annette's very unique strength that no one replicates, and is very strong in the early game (and also makes her the default candidate for the blue Lions dancer battalion). Ferdinand in B... I can't disagree with that. Bernadetta in S+, hahaha nope. Can tell that you're just doing it for the memes. Favors recruiting before level 10 for the base D axes. No enemy phase is an issue, and does have some redundancy with fellow vengeance users, Dedue, and Cyril. Does have early flying though. Not that high opportunity cost due to bow requirement. The Golden Deer house seems to appreciate her more tbh as a Vengeance nuke. Ignatz in A. I highly disagree with this. Can't make him into a filler Wyvern as easily as Alois or Caspar. As a rally bot, he's budget Annette who doesn't raise authority passively. Highly consistent but doesn't have damage output and not that easy to get to brigand unless you do the same recruit before level 10 base D axes thing. Annette has good hit rates with Sagitae, it's kinda her thing amongst the mages. Has few merits over Felix, Shamir, Cyril, and Leonie as a sniper. Sure he can hunter's volley, but everyone can hunter's volley with death blow effectively, that means nothing. Mandatory Shamir can one-shot the death Knight comment. Not too sure if she warrants S over A in BL though. Black Eagles definitely really badly wants her though. Lysithea does trivialize endgame in conjunction with Dimitri in getting Edelgard to stop chucking death balls to your mages ASAP. Hapi can also probably do it. But Yuri's about equivalent to Petra and Leonie as far as raw stats. And they get curved shot easily which works about as well as windsweep for not getting countered most of the time except against the 3 lord bosses + DK. Also, the lack of peg knight disadvantage.

[@zekdom]

On New Game+ Blue Lions Maddening, my Catherine is performing really well with Gauntlets in Swordmaster. Strength+2, Death Blow, Vantage, Wrath. When she reaches level 20, I’m promoting her to War Cleric to pair her Bombard with Fistfaire.

[@naiRISE766]

One thing I find Mercedes lacking compared to other houses healers are her base ranks, E+ reason and D faith is just terrible and I don't think Three Houses is not a game that required that much healing so her healing utility is kinda meh.

[@JoeSmith-db4rq]

Wait why is Hilda as a dancer bad?? Getting her to A rank in reason gets her a siege tome so she can still support everyone when she gets 10 tiles away. Through Wyvern Rider Mastery she got Seal Def/Speed which was hilarious to chip someone from long distance and set up an easy kill. Sure, it’s kinda gimmicky, but it was funny as hell LOL

[@VG_Yugi]

There is one way this tier list can be good

[@VG_Yugi]

Nvm this is everyone

[@Octav2000]

Bernie isn- oh wait she is good

[@Jebus4910]

Woulda swapped balthus and constance honestly but thats about it what house/routes next?

[@cartooncritic7045]

Balthus is actually stupid good. A personal ability that buffs his damage and durability at half health is great on its own, but he also starts with Draining Blow at base and has a Crest that heals him when using Combat Arts. He's almost fully self-sustainable as a tank, and the only thing he really needs in terms of long-term prospects are Hit +20 to patch his shaky hit rates, Death Blow for insane damage, and Quick Riposte so he never gets doubled even by Assassins or Swordmasters.

[@Jebus4910]

@@cartooncritic7045 not doubting hes good/amazing I just rate safe Boltings higher than a secondary brawler even if that brawlers better than the one the story gives you by default. I personally just think that its Hapi>Yuri>Constance>Balthus and the lowest tier any of then shoukd be in is A/A+ depending on list criteria

[@cartooncritic7045]

@@Jebus4910 I just outright think the rankings is Balthus >> Hapi > Constance >> Yuri. The other three below Balthus require a lot of investment in order to be nearly as good as they want to be, and Yuri’s overkill speed seems cool until you realize that getting doubled in this game isn’t as bad as it would be in other games due to how durable you can make everyone with Armor Knight promotions, Protection-stacking, and damage-reducing personal abilities like Advocate and Lily’s Poise. Balthus can do a lot of what he already wants to straight away and doesn’t need *that* much more investment compared to the others. All four are varying degrees of good units, but Balthus is the only one IMO who can be outright great.

[@iamlordapollo]

im sure ive said this on the dancer video but constance is built to be a dancer

[@Katie-hb8iq]

I feel like availability is not a practical metric. Why do most/all players actually care about that? A better way of making a tier list is do what Mekkah has been doing for his guides - just tell people which units are worth using that require little help, which ones that are worth using despite needing some help, and which ones will be tougher to train to make them productive and which ones to simply avoid - regardless when they show up. That categorization is actually helpful when playing the game. Frankly, I don't want to see a S+ tier combat unit in B tier because you can only use it for 3 chapters - if it's S+, then put it in S+ tier. A lot of tier lists do this - they punish good units people should be using because they don't help earlier... and it's kind of dumb to do that when people just want to know who to use. That is a better sign post for me so that when he shows up, I know to swap someone out.

[@duetopersonalreasonsaaaaaa]

I'm sure people make non-availability tier lists. This one just happens to be based on availability. Hell, you could make your own non-availability tier list :)

[@jonenate]

Not a bad tier list I do agree for the most part but I thought id add my two cents from my various blue lion maddening playthroughs. Flayn is better than Mercedes. Rescue is such an invaluable skill to have and frozen lance gives flayn a higher overall damage output. Lighting axe Annette hits for so much damage that its almost unreal. Unless you have a tome like luna or dark spikes T Annette is going to hit for more damage even if you have S+ in tomes. And this is also ignoring crusher. I could go on but I'll just end with hilda should be in c tier. Easily one of the worst units in the game.

[@ferintown6628]

I’m doing a BE maddening run rn Constance is the nuke She does SO much damage It’s basically invalidating Dorothea I’m also in early game btw

[@SleepyBrady]

Is Ingrid really that bad? I mean she has access to Peg knight ans has few weaknesses. She has boons in swords, lance, and flying which is perfect for Falcon knight and because of her generally higher speed she can be a great dodge tank. Even if her personal skill is bad she is generally gonna be better then recruited units because she can get levels assuming she isn't stat screwed of course. Plus she has a Relic weapon which can allow her to use burning quake and because of her high speed she can take advantage of it. Yes her str is shaky but her other growths are great and she generally has pretty high Charm with 45% which is the same as Byleth meaning with her personal skill she can hit Gambits very easily. Although this is my opinion I think Ingrid is better then what you put her to be.

[@chrispo7610]

Her str isnt just shaky, its pretty bad

[@SleepyBrady]

Ok is her str reallllllllly that bad? Like yeah it's 35% but that doesn't include class modifiers. If she goes brigand for a bit her str is 45% which people consider "good" Maybe I just had a different experience with all my characters or something but I can swear Ingrid's str isn't as bad of a thing as people make it out to be

[@personontheinternet1981]

Personal experience doesn't matter! Though in my case, my gripes regarding Ingrid have more to do with her lackluster performance in early game more than anything else. Having a high performance enemy phase unit who isn't Dimitri is a bit less valuable in this route because well, Dimitri. Felix has the speed base advantage and his personal gives him a leg up in the early game, Dedue has the same AS at base and sweet defenses, and Sylvain has Swift Strikes. She compares favorably to Ashe amongst in house units early game, but that's not saying much. She scales well into the late game, but at that point, she honestly doesn't have that many merits over Leonie and Petra either who don't have to compete for early game exp, other than having no opportunity cost of gifts/weapon ranks for recruitment, and the charm thing, and in Leonie's case, recruitment cost isn't really that big an advantage for Ingrid because of how good Pegasus knight is. I feel like I'm just regurgitating myself at this point.

[@revonfyll]

@@personontheinternet1981 ingrid is amazing because she is the only physical unit in the game with high res in a route where enemy magic damage is abundant. Sure she lacks in strength and that tends to be exaggerated because people tend to go pegasus knight with her. But strength is the only thing she lacks. Just go fighter, brigand, wyvern rider, wyvern lord and her strength should be easily fixed. Since you are training axes you can also get a D in armor and class into armored knight for an easy 12 defence. I'm doing exactly this on my new maddening NG run and she pwns. She has the most stats out of anyone in my team, even byleth.

[@thomasbolin3174]

I disagree with the chapter 13 being his worst. Dimitri literally CARRIED my team through that chapter on his back. I would not have been able to beat that chapter without him

[@2nii2]

Yeah but the problem is he will have a low movement you can't reclass him into a wyvren :,(