Blue Protocol: How Pay To Win Will It Be? And More Questions | The Comments Section

[@kevadu]

OK, we've got to talk about the P2W stuff because I feel like you completely missed the point. I don't hate P2W mechanics because I'm worried that I'm going to spend a lot of money on the game. Far from it, I'm quite resistant to that stuff and generally don't spend at all and these kind of games (and I do have money that I could spend). I hate P2W mechanics because they make the game worse. When a company starts selling the 'solution' to a problem they are 100% responsible for creating they suddenly have a huge financial incentive to make that problem worse. i.e., if you can pay to "skip the grind" then they're going to make the game grindier than it really has to be. This is why so many game like this can start feeling like a 2nd job rather than a game you play for fun. That's why I would much rather just pay a box price or subscription fee, because they don't come with the same influence on game design. If everyone pays the same amount for a game then the financial incentive is to make the game as good as possible so that more people want to pay for it. But these kind of F2P games mostly subsist by preying on 'whales'. Their financial incentive is to make those whales spend as much money as possible. Ordinary players are an afterthought.

[@awastedcow]

I'd say OP did not "completely" miss the point; they just have their own perception of p2w just how most individuals should. P2W is just a wide spectrum in today's gaming (people who consider fashion endgame, people who have collector mindsets, etc), and also p2w as a term can vary morally and ethically depending on the individual. I wouldn't go as far to say it's "prostitution"-esque as OP said lmao, but server upkeep is, sadly, a thing a good half of the f2p gaming community don't understand. I've seen people cry about games not being live co-op or having multiplayer options, and at the same time, don't understand a lick of how setting up a server for multiplayer connections etc whatnot can be costly. I think it's more of a learning point where people need to define or clearly define how they want to game. I do agree with your point on preferring box price or subscription as the business model then focuses on the quality to attract business. Sadly the same doesn't apply to f2p games because it ultimately needs to pay the people who work on them + maintenance costs. It's unfortunately just how it is since nothing is truly free. On another note, from what's been announced so far, there's no stats associated to items bought on the cash shop, and the only "pay to progress" item leaked is a reward ticket to add a # of additional rewards from clearing a dungeon. I personally think people are overreacting on the ticket because it doesn't say it flat out GIVES you the rewards you want (at least to my knowledge). Knowing how these tickets work as they also exist in various other games, it's still RNG based so it's still a gamble. The ticket is not going to magically make that 1% drop rate into a 100% drop rate. Then we're probably going to have these same people get envious if the ticket does help and call it p2w or these same people will laugh and feel morally superior if the ticket doesn't help drop the wanted items by being like "oh I didn't spend and LOSE money."

[@kevadu]

@@awastedcow "the only "pay to progress" item leaked is a reward ticket to add a # of additional rewards from clearing a dungeon." That's not true at all, unfortunately. There are actually several problematic things that have been confirmed to be in the cash shop. To name a few: * Tickets that boost great success chance when crafting. This is actually huge, because great success is *required* to craft gear with the maximum possible number of plug slots and the base chance is pretty low. It kind of looks like a big part of the endgame loop will be gathering mats to recraft gear over and over until you get a BiS piece and these can have a pretty big impact on that. * Plug removal tickets. Normally when you add a plug to a weapon that's it. You can replace what's in that slot later but you don't get your plug back and if you manage to get a really good plug that kind of sucks if you get a better weapon later on and can't reuse it. But there's an item in the cash shop that let's you remove a plug and keep it. * XP and money booster items. Not really sure how much these will matter but they do exist. The extra rewards tickets may actually be the least problematic aspect to me, if only because it sounds like you'll also be given quite a few of these (3 per day) for free. In a way it's kind of like a daily quest system except you can use them where you want and you can buy more if you really want to. But I would imagine that 3 dungeon runs a day is probably enough to satisfy most people...

[@awastedcow]

@@kevadu Oh crap, I forgot about those. That's a fair point. I'm so used to seeing those type of items (crafting chance increases, gem socket retaining items) in MMORPG's with gear customization because that's how builds have variety among every player. Yeah, in that case, essentially all MMORPG's are p2w when taking gear customization systems into consideration. EXP and money boost items are also standard, most MMORPG's usually give these out in beginner packages etc as well so it's not as bad because you'd normally just pop one when you're sitting down for a long grind session, but we'll see. The only silver lining is that BP doesn't have stats on the cosmetics like most MMO's do.

[@Hinton_418]

It's been confirmed that there will be items that you can buy that will help your chance to enhance your items. Items when you enhance them can fail. They have said there will be no items, weapons, or armor that you can directly purchase with real money. It's only cosmetic items when it comes to weapons and armor. But they have not ruled out the possibility of some kind of subscription based thing similar to Elder Scrolls Online. In ESO, you can pay 14.99 usd a month to get an infinite crafting material storage plus 10% exp and gold gain, but you also get access to all content. So don't be surprised if something like that happens. Plus, there will be a Battlepass already confirmed.

[@Filthycasual17]

Man I wish sub mmos were more popular. I'll always prefer them. They are generally of much higher quality and much less predatory if at all. But people would rather play f2p mmos instead where you end up spending more a month to keep up than you would with a sub

[@Drakken24619]

To answer the question in the video title that he completely danced around and didn’t answer yes this game is p2w I hate how most creators just lie to these viewers or give a vague answer so let me break it down for everyone. Bp will have a battle pass and paid cosmetic gacha like shop,it’ll have these ticket items that you can use to get more rewards for dungeons/quests/raids etc,it’ll have a paid item that increases your blessing which is what increases your chance at crafting better gear ,each gear can have max 4 slots with 4 random stats (flame atk 4% highest it can go is like 15%) ,the blessing can basically guarantee you max slots and high percentages on gear,while f2p will like never get a great success since super low chance. Also knowing how the devs talked about wanting to help the casuals who can’t play long hence ticket system I wouldn’t be surprised if they also sold paid items that increased exp earned and another that increased item drop rates/items earned per kill/gathered. Oh and let’s not forget how the devs said if you wanna transfer or remove plugs from said weapons there will be an item in the cash shop to do just that giving p2w players even more chance at getting better gear. Just because there isn’t any pvp doesn’t mean it’s not p2w ,pay to progress and pay for convenience is still p2w no matter what don’t act like it isn’t ,the moral hoops you had to jump around to justify it was insane like just accept it and move on like ima whale either way but don’t try to hoodwink your viewers.

[@linhusp2349]

Ikr. I dont understand why ppl stills wondering if it will be p2w or not. The ticket drop rate system is literally p2w system. And to whoever dumbass say to me some bs like "oh its a pve game no pvp so there isnt actually p2w". Then diablo imortal is not p2w too, of course its a user friendly game because it doesnt have any real pvp right? As this point I even doubt if BP monetization system can be any better than diablo imortal.

[@lynpotter6471]

The chance for a great success is 25%. The chance for a max slot roll is 35% of great successes. That's roughly a 9% chance of getting a max slot weapon. We don't know yet whether the tickets that increase success rate are paid-only. For example, the item used to re-roll plugs is available using a free in-game currency but also available in the paid shop. The same can be said for plug removal/retrieval tickets and item slot increase tickets--we just don't know yet what's actually behind a paywall and what is just a faster way of doing what everyone else can do. Opinions will vary on where to draw the line, but I think there's significant room for some paid convenience in a game without PvP. As long as whales and f2p have the same ceiling and the discrepancy in reaching it isn't too large, I think we'll be fine. As of this moment, no one can say with accuracy how things will shake out.

[@joeymurillo4203]

To me, p2w is more towards pvp. If someone spends money to obtain better gear, level up, or just anything to progress something instead of having to put in time. Even if it's just a little, that's pay to win.

[@yCythrauI]

p2w is a spectrum

[@joeymurillo4203]

@@yCythrauI totally agree

[@symphonixblades]

Agreed and there's no PvP in Blue Protocol

[@joeymurillo4203]

@Symphonix_Beats I didn't know that. So if they did charge for gear I wouldn't care to much. Thanks for info

[@lokidrake1988]

Thanks for the content

[@GingerPrimeClips]

Thanks for the comment :)

[@mohammadnouritani]

What is the max number of levels in the game

[@Hinton_418]

They already said the game is free to play, and that's not going to change. It has been revealed that there will be some sort of items you can buy with real money to enhance your chance to help upgrade your equipment. But they have said there won't be pay to increase your power. There won't be any weapons you can buy or armor. But they have not ruled out some kind of subscription based systems similar to Elder Scrolls Online. Yes, there will be a battle pass.

[@leoaguiar8582]

Season battle pass with Amazon subscription in game bonus will be a thing

[@antesudar2647]

I am good with that like in riders of icarus battle pass 1 month and you have some items every day free

[@simonshura9144]

Aside from the battlepass they will of course have limited skins weapon cosmetics etc

[@Drakken24619]

And they will have payed to progress items like the tickets to get extra dungeon/quest rewards ,the item that increases crafting success rate to give you better gear/more plug slots and probably items to increase drop rates,exp and items aquired from gathering/killing enemies

[@howlcyphers9307]

Love the "If you dont like it dont buy it" attitude thats helped the gaming industry so much. 😒

[@Clarkwater]

Your take on monetization is the best take I've heard from anyone ngl

[@GingerPrimeClips]

I was not expecting your comment to end so pleasantly, I started reasoning it and was like… how am I going to get torn up on this one… but then I was like, oh, what a great comment

[@Clarkwater]

@@GingerPrimeClips yeah idk I've always felt this way, like I don't get it when people get upset at pay to progress faster stuff. The whole point of the game is to resource manage and time manage and once you pay you skip the journey. The only people who lose are those who paid, because it's not a race LOL.

[@Senichiro]

people are worried about p2w in a free to play game Kappa

[@mohammadnouritani]

Easy pay to win is when you can't progress exept if you pay Unless it is you buy to play Example if you pay to make a weapon and if you don't make it you can't progress then there is a problem If the weapon progress is luck based + you pay to fix pay to upgrade it is a gambling game Gambling games get you to pay a lot for nothing and that is also pay to win And theme stuff are not effecting the game play that is really not pay to win If you have 1k and you spend that to be the best player and the one playing can't get to what you did get it is pay to win game

[@make685daily]

"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." ---Eleanor Roosevelt

[@bc8814]

Do you think Blue Protocol will be casual friendly? It looked like there's quite a grind, curious if someone can play 30 minutes a day and still complete goals

[@Filthycasual17]

If you can only play 30 minutes a day, I would honestly stay away from mmos period

[@DoingFavors]

@@Filthycasual17 This. MMO's are living breathing worlds people who populate them intend to spend large amounts of time and build bonds and make friendships in. There's also the competitive tier who wants to chase the big challenge, the ones who hit those big raids and dungeons, what happens when casuals occupy the space of an MMO is usually disappointment and vocal demand for a more casual friendly experience. Single player games are much more suited for a casual gamer.

[@milmil5350]

Yes. You can be casual and enjoy the game just fine. 30 minutes to an hour a day "everyday" is a lot tbh. That adds up. As long as you're not playing competitively, you'll be just fine going at your own pace and making friends with other players along the way. And if you wanna go slow and be solo all the way, that's fine too. answer is going by my personal experience playing many different mmos as well as feedback from players of the CBT. They all expressed what I just told you here.

[@shaece798]

It's a free to play game I'm pretty sure you'll eventually be able to buy your way through everything if need be, there's no free to play game in existence that doesn't try and sell you the solution to everything in their game.

[@camfreed9829]

Why the heck do you want play an MMORPG if all you have is 30 minutes to play? Play other games man...instead of mmorpg players having to adjust to YOU. In fact, I would recommend you get a Nintendo switch. It’s FULL of casual games you can play 30 minutes, pause, turn off and leave it. Super Mario, etc. But an mmorpg will require sometimes 30 minutes to an hour for one raid alone....

[@Judax666]

life is pay to win, so expect it. thats it!

[@camfreed9829]

Right! Even for subscription based business model! If you can’t pay it, YOU LOSE! 😂

[@Judax666]

@@camfreed9829 exactly,because the dev team still needs to make a funds for the game. so lets just enjoy the game just like how we enjoy life. thats just the main point. we should somehow literally accept that everything will be p2w.

[@nickstinger4709]

I want games with gambling like monetization to be labeled and age restricted. I think that's enough. Um, except we could also tax it at a special higher rate. Tax it heavily.

[@nickstinger4709]

My bias disclosure: I'm not planning to play this game unless my arm gets twisted.

[@kluafoz]

I think having a single "home" mmo will only happen when they go back to grinding aka earning achievements instead of handouts like ffxiv has been sadly

[@palmtoptiger94]

Blue protocol hype❤

[@MattDank3eyes]

I think we both know this is the pve mmo we all wanna uwu in

[@AnonYoBizness]

As per the Steam deck situation. It being on Steam means nothing for games to work on steam deck, neither the Controller situation. The biggest issue the Steam Deck has is Anti Cheat. Steam deck uses Linux and Anti and Linux is like water and oil. Unless BP does not use any Anti cheat ( which is hard to believe) they will probably block Steam deck usage to stop "hackers" which seems to be the excuse of most companies not wanting to invest in Steam OS. Long story short, It will most likely not be on Steam deck, just like Tower of Fantasy and Genshin Impact not being on Steam Deck.

[@GingerPrimeClips]

BP has anti cheat and anti cheat can also run on Linux. I have many games that run great so I’ll be really surprised if they don’t support BP

[@RamRam-fl6rv]

So correct me if im wrong but if the game has no pvp or leaderboards is it really p2w? Cause like who really cares if timmy hits max cap first? Will he be able to do raids? No lol cause noone else will be that high lvl

[@shaece798]

because you can take the least competitive game in the world and people are still going to find a way to make it into a competition even if that including speed running it or getting the highest gear score possible, killing an enemy the fastest etc.

[@theoaremevano3227]

The whole quantification of digital asset value kinda rides on this idea of selling 'status' more than anything. It seems worthless to some people, for sure, but there's always a market for 'status' whether it's clothing, a car, digital clothing or... a cool fox, it's all a means to an end for some, and the fact they're not technically winning anything doesn't stop businesses from raking in cash off of them. The more problematic part tends to lie with business models that try to incite that thought pattern in people. Still, I kinda get what Brian's saying here. I feel like there's a lot of blame that goes to the users, which benefits the companies more because they get to pretend it's all user error. I don't think users telling each other to stop playing this or that, or stop paying will have much of an effect. Such a small percentage of a game's user base tends to be the source of a lot of its money.

[@simonshura9144]

Seasonal Battlepasses are valid to get them monthly income and the fomo going

[@camfreed9829]

People say pay to play>pay to win. But here’s my thing....let’s say this game was a monthly membership of $20. What if a month or several months goes by where someone cannot pay the monthly membership fee? They then miss out on all the progress others achieve. They then come back months later and are behind other players. Did those players technically pay to win because someone couldn’t?

[@TheMismatcher]

@@camfreed9829 No

[@ShiraMakesVideos]

@@camfreed9829 Subscriptions are a little different if there aren't any cash shops - FF14 is nearly a perfect example of this where all the cash shop items are cosmetic but you aren't paying to win at all. I'm happy to pay a subscription if there's no mechanisms to allow players to get ahead just because they can pay. Often games that have a subscription model like FF14 last longer as well because the general playerbase is happier to pay like $10/mo than deal with P2W garbage. That said, if I see someone with P2W bullshit in my lobby I'm leaving immediately, I'll exclude those players in every way possible. I don't condone whales.

[@camfreed9829]

@@ShiraMakesVideos A usual battlepass is like $10/month as well right? So it’s kind of like the subscription. Only difference I see is that F2P model allows those an opportunity to literally play a game for free. But that doesn’t mean they are getting the full version...almost like a full game trial run. People who couldn’t pay or don’t want to make that commitment for FFXIVs monthly subscription won’t get a chance to play it at all. But with F2P people can engage with the content and actually see what benefits they would receive for paying. Also it’s a PVE game. What exactly would someone be “winning” by paying? There’s no PVP so I mean the only competition would be what the players are creating themselves. If you have better gear than me I would just ask “oh really? Are you paying?” Its that simple, if they say yes and I’m F2P they don’t “win” anything. They are out of my weight class. F2P compete with F2P, Pay to wins compete with Pay to wins. Light weights vs. Light weights, Heavyweights vs. Heavyweights. Idk just my two cents

[@ShiraMakesVideos]

@@camfreed9829 I get what you're saying but to be fair FF14 does have a pretty extensive free trial that goes into Heavensward which is roughly 300 hours of free gameplay. It's more than generous. FF14 is also a PvE focused game and the PvP has special rulesets where you can't bring in your own gear so it's a fair comparison. I think it's best not to brush off that point if you've never played the game..not to be rude but it doesn't sound like you have if you didn't know that about it. You can even upgrade your account to a full account eventually once you decide if you want to commit to playing the full game and you don't lose any progress. FF14 is more than fair to F2P players. I'm agreeing with you in different words, basically. I have all the same sentiments including the whole argument about there not being PvP or trading and you aren't really P2W in a F2P PvE only game. lol IF someone has gear that clearly is paid for with cash, I'll just inspect and leave the party / dungeon..simple as that. I have no plans to play with players who buy stuff because it affects me as a F2P player when I'm farming content. If it's in the raids I don't have much of a choice, but I certainly do when it comes to dungeon runs and similar. That's generally where I stand on the matter.

[@TreyGamer75]

Im not sure if this was answered somewhere else but im kinda wandering if when you max out a skill/move, can u swap it out and work on another one?

[@DavySilverwind]

I am really excited for the idea of less focus on a trinity and more self reliance. It reminds a bit me of early GW2 which had no healers and tanks (which they later added when they brought in raids). That was a really fun time, where you could just bring anyone to any content and you all had to dodge and avoid damage etc. It wasn't without it's issues ofc (some fights could just be cheesed by standing somewhere or doing enough dps) but it was way more chaotic and fun after years of tank and spank in mmo's.

[@DoingFavors]

As a healer I almost guarantee BP will add a bit more of a Trinity to the game. Mainly because people are stupid and can't manage their health pools. People will die, people will cry, healers will become more of a thing.

[@DavySilverwind]

@@DoingFavors from what I can see so far (but haven't played it), everyone contributing with passive healing should be an interesting way to do it. You might be right but I'd love for something a bit different to be tried.

[@DoingFavors]

@@DavySilverwind I love their concept, but I was just doing a new dungeon and ESO and people couldn't follow the simple mechanic if a red circle slowly filling and a large text saying "PREPARE TO BLOCK" healers are idiot tax and helpful for good players

[@smercxz]

Mann.. why no pvp l, literally killed my hype for this game 😮‍💨

[@laskyb4275]

who cares if people go broke in games or are wealthy enough to afford spending thousands of dollars.. the problem why people don't want pay to win in games it's cause it ruins the game difficulty and archivments. I don't like paying to make my game easier.. it's like if dark souls sells a version of the game for higher price that include easy mode.. first of all what's the fun in that and 2nd it ruins everyone's experience cause ending the game it's not a big archivment anymore in mmos you can't really tell who used easy and who's not. I paid sub fee in Lost ark and paid way more for skins.. I had 4 alts with the most expensive ones so I agree that devs should get paid for their work but p2w it's just something stupid that shouldn't be in games cause what's the point of reaching end game paying? at this point just wait and buy an account from someone else with all done for you. about the release date they better release both reagions together cause otherwise jp version will be floaded with all over the world people who will quit when western version will be released forcing jp to reduce number of servers. (which translate into cost.. servers aren't cheap)

[@XeqtrM1]

To me I dy see it as p2w because it's a pve game beside does that payed makes things easier for does that didn't payed etc when comes to dg raids etc but that's my opinion

[@9pk.numbah4]

Would it be crazy to make a model that profits the developer off of play time. This would ultimately align both sides of the party with the developer making a game better and better in hopes that we the gamers play the game and "enjoy" it and come back🤔idk🤷🏾‍♂️ but I don't want in game ads unless it's on billboards and stuff in game but like I said idk

[@miorosa318]

Tbh billboard adds wouldn't fit in mideval type of games but in futuristic types would be pretty funny and cool

[@Filthycasual17]

Yeah the only way I can see that working is in game ads lol. Imagine seeing a mountain dew ad in town lol

[@shaece798]

yea it's called a subscription based game, you pay them monthly if the time investment feels worth it or you cancel if they aren't living up to your expectations, but when people see money at face value rather than being exchanged into 5 different currencies they are less likely to purchase it.

[@foostar898]

did you see recent leaks?

[@khuff8210]

As long as they keep monetization out of gear, weapons, etc I can put up with a lot. Diablo immortal type p2w and I'll leave after a month or two.

[@symphonixblades]

There's no gear as like armor there's only weapons and imajins that's all the gear, and those are craftable, some imajins can be acquired in Monster drops so they can't put monetization in gear, since the game relies heavily on crafting the gear yourself rather than getting gear

[@awastedcow]

Based on dev streams and announcements, no monetization on directly acquiring gear. Game is based around building up your character's strength via upgrading gear organically as you progress (crafting, plug/gem sockets, etc) and is available to all players on equal ground. The only hint of monetization leaked so far is a reward ticket that provides additional rewards per dungeon run (so you get an additional cut of rewards), but even then it's more than likely to still just be RNG based meaning it won't make that 1% drop rate into a 100% drop rate. It's still just a gamble iirc

[@Drakken24619]

Lol I find it hilarious how both comments on this completely ignore the fucking paid to win system that they said that you pay for a higher chance to get better gear in a way called the bleeding system that can give you more plug slots and higher percentages for said plugs like flame atk 4% to like 15%

[@linhusp2349]

@@awastedcow That drop rate system is literally the fucking definition of pay to win. You pay to get more chance to get better things than who doesn't pay. What the fuck are you defending? This game already has bootlickers?

[@Swaaall]

But like, the title wasn't even answered.

[@GingerPrimeClips]

The title of the video is more then answered, sorry if you didn't hear the answer.

[@Swaaall]

@@GingerPrimeClips You just used blanket statements and didn't even go into the micro-transactions that are in the game or will be added. You just rambled about your general view on the pay2win topic and concluded that either way the game would be considered one by the community. That doesn't really sound like a clear answer to me.

[@GingerPrimeClips]

If you still can't hear the answer, try, try again... it's so clear, but some people just miss it, or haven't been gaming long enough to understand. But give it another listen and hopefully that helps makes things clearer. :)

[@Solid912]

@@Drakken24619 pretty much anything that makes progression in any capacity easier is pay to win you are winning in the sense you are crafting items faster then someone who chooses not to pay.

[@Drakken24619]

@@Solid912 exactly