BMW E92 M3 S65 Engine 2011 seized due to conrod bearing failure

[@maxnix346]

Why all the noise over the narrative?

[@chrisg4rr377]

That's a huge compliment having that sent over from Jamaica but surely there's plenty people that could easily work out why it died over in a whole country or somewhere closer

[@CmdrStukov]

There are some exceptionally talented mechanics in Jamaica - my brother-in-law being one of them. As for why the customer opted to ship the engine over to James for inspection shows just how highly Redish Motorsport is regarded.

[@chrisg4rr377]

Johnny D Legend they are legends but it seems like it would cost a fortune to ship a fucked engine. It wouldn't be that hard to work out how bad it is even for a numpty

[@kerrydangerfield6528]

g4rr377 not in Jamaica tik dem tik . Innit

[@matthewnicholas6365]

You need to release an official soundtrack for your videos

[@malpollard6320]

The ARP bolts suggest that the bearings have been done previously, so what type of bearings were put in it

[@JBG84]

Don't think they are ARP's bud, the bolt head doesn't crater in the middle. Look OEM to me.

[@billyhurst4319]

You guys are both like wizards, how much you charge to do mine 😆 2012 E92 103K

[@JBG84]

@@billyhurst4319 Lol well only one of us is right

[@ethersecure2432]

so... and I'm just going out on a limb here... your message you're trying to convey is that this thing should be thrown straight into the trash correct?

[@r.innovationsweinnovatesoo2915]

wouldn't have failed if run on legalised cannabis oil innit

[@NickKautz]

There's 2 reasons the s65 and s85 spin bearings. The first is 10w60 , the second is no oil in the engine at all.

[@lf3566]

S65 rod bearing failure is actually incredibly rare in the real world. The bmw tech at the dealership in my town services several e92 and e93's and he said out of the 12yrs hes worked there they've never encountered a rod bearing issue with these cars and he said a few of the s65's he services has over 130,000 miles. He said the main problems with these cars are throttle actuators, which are salty, and motor mounts. As far as rod bearings according to him its a myth. I've searched high and dry and have talked to many bmw techs accross the country and they pretty much say the same thing. Only a couple techs, that I've talked to, came across rod bearing failure and they both said the car was driven hard and anything driven over 8000 rpm's over and over and over again is gonna eventually give in. So all in all the s65 engine is a fantastic engine.

[@NickKautz]

@@lf3566 Just do a google of "s65 rod bearing failure" or S85 ... they're the same engine just s65 has 2 cylinders chopped off, basically.. There's a class action lawsuit against bmw that's been going on for years (there were multiple suits but they got merged). The argument being disputed in the case wasn't IF there was a problem with spun rod bearings , it was established right away that there were too many instances to count , the argument was: did BMW know about this and continue selling the cars without fixing it and did they violate law by refusing to replace blown customer motors."

[@lf3566]

@@NickKautz the problem I have is I've done extensive research only to find that not many engines were blown up and the ones that were blown were driven hard (8000 plus rpm's before engine was fully warmed up) on a daily basis . Through our research we've discovered that yes you need to let the car warm up longer than the average car before driving it hard but still considering that and the fact that these cars are driven at extremely high rpm's there still hasn't been as much failure as one would expect. How many cars can be driven over 8000 rpm's on a daily basis for thousands and thousands of miles and not have rod bearing failure? I used to drag race 1000 hp naturally aspirated drag cars with many thousands of dollars in these engines and sometimes you would only get a few passes before major failure would occur. All in all these engines are built tough, minus the ridiculous throttle actuators and motor mounts. My advice and any m3 Tech's advice that I talked to is LET THE ENGINE FULLY WARM UP BEFORE HITTING MAX RPM.

[@NickKautz]

@@lf3566 You're right about warming up, especially with a 60wt oil like that. The reason I believe BMW didn't think 60 was a problem is because in their testing , they'd flog the engine , drive it hard , and it would take it without issue because they were getting temps up into a range that made 60wt thin enough to get into the bearing clearance adequately. But what they didn't focus on enough was , what happens with that weight oil when a car is driven normally on a daily basis and temps don't get as high as they need to for that oil. Plus there's a oil cooler the size of a skateboard on the M5, not helping matters

[@Assimilator1]

​@@lf3566 ​ I don't think you've done much research then! Although if you mean not many engines blown up in % terms, I agree. But if you mean absolute numbers then I disagree, unless you discount engines which have either seized or knackered the bearings so badly it's written off the crank &/or block?, you can say that those haven't blown up, but the engine is certainly destroyed! Anyway, if you include the later, with very limited data out there, the only record I came across of 'blown' engines is here (not saying their aren't others btw, lmk if their are) - www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=786615 - their are somewhere north of 150 destroyed engines listed there (many replaced under warrantee at BMW dealers!). Yes small in % terms from ~65k production, but of course many destroyed engines won't be reported there or online at all! Ref 8k RPM, what a load of rubbish, the Honda S2000 revs to 9k RPM & the Audi RS4 B7 revs to ~8k RPM & they don't have anyway near the number of problems the S65 has with (mainly) rod bearings. Also, the S65s redline is ~8300 RPM, so they should be designed to take 8k RPM regularly without failing seriously early, that's what the redline is for! And for a minute lets forget the destroyed (seized, knocking or blown up) engines as we don't know the total number, although it's likely a very small percentage. What is far more concerning is when people replace the rod bearings preventatively, the vast majority of the old bearings come out with excessive wear, even with low mileages & claimed careful warming up before driving it hard (and btw, I would find it un-credible if you or anyone claimed they were all lying about being careful with warming up!). Don't believe me? See the dozens of photos here - www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1253084 Then read pdf papers by bearing manufactures Clevite & King regarding bearing wear & causes of failure, use their photos as comparison. The rod bearing issue certainly isn't a myth, and counter to your anecdotal claims of BMW dealers rarely coming across this, in my anecdotal reading I've come across many reports where at least some dealers often had an M3 e9x in for an engine change, FWIW ;). Certainly their is a problem with the 10w-60 oil, although really it's the combo of being a 10w (fairly thick cold rating) oil combined with the unusually tight bearing clearances they use for the S65 & S85 engines that's the baulk of the problem. But yes thrashing it before fully warmed up is going exacerbate it, along with the usual not checking the oil level enough, etc. Suspicions also fall on how well some engines were assembled. And btw, I'm not saying that all S65 engines will fail before 50k or 100k miles etc, just that it's a gamble (German lottery as someone said in the m3post forums! ;)), but if you lose the gamble you pay dearly for it!

[@mysteryshopper7296]

Probably supercharging since it was the first two bearings that went - you won’t get an honest answer out of the owner about the mods he had on there

[@Assimilator1]

One thing I believe you got wrong, those particles wouldn't have flowed right throughout the oil system as they would have been caught by the oil filter. The oil goes from the pump straight to the filter, right?

[@jokerash]

this looks to me as an engine revved without enough oil inside, that's why rods went too hot, not enough lubrication. rod bearings down break out of the blue at 20000 miles if oil changes are made properly with quality oil and recommended time between the changes. Either they drove it like they stole it with overused oil, no oil, not enough oil or oil pump failure. I've seen M3s and M5s with rod bearings shaved but no so hard and the cars were having 120-140000 miles.

[@Assimilator1]

Nope, plenty of S65 engines have failed whilst regularly maintained & low mileages (e.g sub 50k miles), and often BMW agreed (indirectly) as they've replaced the engine under warrantee! Feel free to check out this list! - www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=786615 (I've posted near the end of that thread with a cleaned up list (WIP) with a little basic info against each link). Oil pump failure is very rare, at least from that list. Largely seems to be down to oil starvation due to tight clearances in some S65s combined with a fairly thick oil (I'm excluding the ones which are supercharged & failed no1 mains from that statement, the extra load doesn't help!).

[@jnavonoD]

That looks expensive. Sad, too.

[@patricklorio7657]

I own a 2011 m3 so I am really interested in this video! Hate the music!

[@wavyheat305]

I hate bmw for this. You make an engine but dont stand by your product

[@mysteryshopper7296]

Supercharging an NA engine

[@NickKautz]

10w60 was BMW's mistake , they know it.

[@rengokusats]

@@NickKautz sure hope it is, been running 0w40 since ownership

[@NickKautz]

@@rengokusats Nice. Since Formula 1 and Nascar run 10-15wt and on the other end you have 18-wheelers and 10k HP Top Fuel dragsters running 70wt, and you say your engine is Formula 1 inspired suggesting precision and tight tolerances (which they are) it makes no sense to run a 60 weight unless you were trying to put a stopwatch on the lifespan of the engine or just .... made the most obvious mistake for like 6 years in a row.... while customer engines continued to spin bearings left and right. (referring to BMW)

[@CadexLaw]

@@NickKautz 10w60 was not a mistake. Take either the S65 or S85 around a track with 0w40 and you’re going to be overheating fast.

[@dertyherry313]

any idea where I can get one of those at 2:48 ?

[@FishFind3000]

Since it’s not salvageable what are you doing with the engine? Would it not be worth it to send it back? Are you just going to keep it for some random parts or scrap it?

[@tempest411]

The block should be salvageable. Give it a thorough cleaning and correct any issues with the bores with sleeves or Nikasil.

[@erickrayos]

it is, if you're gonna do a full rebuild for boosted application. but if you're just gonna rebuild to have it OEM then its cheaper to just sell this engine for parts and buy a used one and do the rod bearing job on it.

[@chuck1125]

Bearing journals would be scored beyond repair.

[@DrTeinaz]

Hi Redish. Can you tell me how much you would charge to replace my rod bearings with the better designed ones on the V8. It's an E93 2008. Thanks

[@Leostunzz]

Daryl Hall $1500 USD

[@craig1048]

Good video. Surely this just got thrown in the bin? Also with the ARP bolts guessingnsime cowboy has been in there before?

[@NiGHTMARE_NiCk]

The S65 and S85 Engines would have been BMWs Best engines ever built if they didnt circum to rod bearing failure

[@YZFR6Yammie]

Redline 5w50 and just do the rod bearing preemptively.

[@Desertduleler_88]

Engine is good for scrap, better off buying a secondhand unit rather than do a rebuild.

[@TGLasers]

said by every lazy person ever

[@Desertduleler_88]

TG Lasers A question of economics moron.

[@DOMS4.]

It'd definitely be cheaper and less of a headache to find a new motor. You don't know the extent of damage, those little pieces of metal went through the whole motor at a XXXXrpm. I wouldn't use it until a complete short block teardown.

[@moleBRUV]

So the LCI Aluminium rod bearings still fail at low mileage?

[@grantmathiason9148]

Yes, however this one appears to be a main bearing failure that took out the rods as a result. Seems to happen more on the LCI cars than pre LCI.

[@GeorgeAusters]

More than likely been floored from cold

[@RedishMotorsportbmw]

Yes I'd imagine so George. Very strange for it to catastrophically fail at such low mileage.

[@femiodumuyiwa5402]

Hi, how can i reach you? i need to do a engine rebuild.

[@alfredotovar8984]

Question, can the cylinder walls be resurfaced or bored with the special alusil material that is used on BMW engines? Would that be a possibility to maybe salvage an engine in this kind of condition? Thank you in advance, and greetings from Los Angeles!

[@gregh7457]

New liners are probably the only way to fix that. BMW probably doesn't make oversized pistons for this engine

[@jokerash]

problem is not the pistons or rods, in each of these cases the crankshaft will get damaged and the only option is to buy a new one which is damn expensive. It's better to buy a used engine in good condition, rebuild the rod bearings, and sell your old engine as parts, as most of them are not damaged and get some money out of it.

[@Romu1us]

curious. Was OEM recommended oil used? Thats very interesting it being a 2011 as that was a fairly "new-er" engine. i thought rod bearing issues were mainly seen in 08-10 engines.

[@tempest411]

It shouldn't matter what oil was used. As long as it had oil, this failure should not have happened. Of course, we don't know that the owner wasn't revving the piss out of it while low on oil, and then only added or changed the oil after it seized.

[@blademanx]

tempest411 lol common failure on e92 m3, most owners address it as soon as purchased

[@MrPTManning]

rod bearings are a potential issue on all model years of E9x M3s. In 2011, they changed the material of the bearings from a softer copper/lead compound to a harder tin/aluminum compound. So in theory the bearings last longer in 2011-2013 cars, but they don't address the bearings clearance/lack of lubrication issue. And if they fail the newer, harder bearings are more likely to do damage to the crank.

[@fiatlux4265]

I always use liquimoly's friction modifier on my S54, always will. When the time comes to replace the OEM bearings, I will opt for BE performance bearings, which are designed with extra clearance between the bearing and the journal. This, combined with LM's Mos2 or Cera Tec (along with regular engine flushes & oil changes) should prevent this issue from ever happening.

[@CadexLaw]

Fiat Lux motorkote works well too. I’d highly recommend putting any sort of friction reducer if/when changing rod bearings.

[@goognamgoognw6637]

what's the annoying music for ?

[@Mrbfgray]

Too bad BMW didn't figure some way to show off such a beautiful motor in the car instead of covering it in plastic, I can understand why they did it that way, practicle but not pleasing to look at when you lift the hood, such an impressive bit of machinery there even without fancy enhancements like Ferrari class does to show off theirs.

[@gregoryfuller1136]

Covering it in plastic? Do you have any idea what you are talking about? That "plastic" is a large plenum for the individual throttle bodies. This engine has no airflow meter, and thus needs this highly engineed piece of "plastic" to perform optimally.

[@davezorc]

There are absolutely no cosmetic parts covering the engine. You just can't see most of it because it's a relatively large engine in a car the size of a Honda Civic.

[@topnews1007]

They said that is one of the worst engine that BMW ever made.

[@genekelly8467]

Why spend $$$ to ship a bad engine 3000 miles to the UK? Not worth fixing, a junkyard engine is better.

[@gregh7457]

flawed oil supply design and much too tight rod bearing clearances . RIP

[@Filip-tw7bu]

Perfect base to build a 4.4L Stroker Engine

[@chuck1125]

Bearing journal would be stuffed. Cant repair it without replacing the block.

[@Djpaul-lo1px]

Aah yes Jamaicans are well renound for properly maintaining their engines...

[@TreyKing63]

With that many scorched rod bearings it is most likely ran too low on oil and then left to die... Gotta check to oil they may use 1 liter every 500 miles a sad day and a tough lesson $$$

[@billyhurst4319]

Amen brother , they drink heartily , at least what BMW told me about M, I check the oil regularly

[@e36s54]

Filmed by the Blair Witch team

[@iysisrose]

HAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

[@Djpaul-lo1px]

Most likely a victim of typical Jamaican prioritisation tinting the Windows rather than changing the oil.

[@scottyjones27]

I thought BMW was built like a tiger tank!! I owned 91 525i with M50 engine auto trans for over 420000.0miles only reason I had to stop driving her was next door folks house burnt down n my baby got roasted still ran but was to much to fix money wise!!

[@MrBananablitz123]

Did you not have insurance lol?

[@Assimilator1]

@@MrBananablitz123 Would be a write off though.

[@Assimilator1]

Wow! Awesome mileage! :D The M sport engines (not saying all) seem to suffer with bearing problems rather than the regular engines (in general). I had a 2001 330d with 192k miles, my friend's now got it & it's at 214k miles, the engine's still fine :) (it's just the body's rusting away!).

[@RockoOmazing]

Dope Channel

[@hba8103]

Only 20k miles? Holy shit!! How does that happen?

[@1v1qsns]

hba8103 poor clearance and poor oil flow. These engines can last 20k or 150k no one knows. Depends on how you maintain it of course but even then there have been people who have babied it and taken care of it above and beyond and it failed at 50k or less with no track days

[@anders949494]

that engine is not worth saving, new/used in the car

[@drumnbass8]

Yep, thats proper f*cked

[@TorutheRedFox]

O O F

[@jimmysonwhite5757]

Not good !!

[@nicholass3964]

Turn the fucken music off !

[@warrior29grom]

Wtf BMW?

[@Assimilator1]

And how do you know that THIS engine was serviced properly? Warmed up properly? And not badly modded? I don't deny that some of these engines suffer big end bearing failures, but you don't know the cause of this engine's failure, it could be the customers fault!

[@ironmantooltime]

Volve? 😂

[@gregrsvr3947]

yeah, I had to listen twice, wtf are "volves" ??

[@MaliciousSRT]

Junk. And they are designed to fail like that, these and the AMG's.

[@Assimilator1]

BS

[@mohammadrezarezai7140]

I rebild one of this shitt engine