BMW Fuel Supply case study- Part 2 (SI Ep. 15.6)

[@arnobruynen6073]

I know this is an older video but I thought I might add some more technical info in here :) On any F series BMW (this was a F10) if you swap a control unit like the EKPM in this video its CPS (CodierPruefStempel = German for coding checksum) will be invalidated. In normal operating conditions when the module is properly coded the CPS always equals the last 7 characters of the VIN. When you swap a module and the CPS doesn't match the VIN of the car it's installed in the CPS will become FFFFFFF and it will assume default coding values and run in a kind of emergency operating mode. In normal operation the DME asks for a certain volume of fuel to be delivered to the HPFP and the EKPM will control the fuel pump in such a way that it will deliver that exact flow of fuel. In emergency operation it will run the pump at a fixed duty cycle like you've seen on the scope and once the pump can't keep up and wants to draw more current than permitted according to the emergency strategy the EKPM shuts it off. I was practically yelling at my screen you needed to code it hahaha. Simple coding would take care of that in 2 minutes. In this case the module needed to be programmed to match the software version of the car according to the dealer system. And many aftermarket scan tools with programming capabilities are based on the dealer programming system. With factory tools like E-Sys you could have gotten away with just coding the module without flashing new firmware, for certain other modules though it's really important their software level matches the rest of the car. Also on the repair manual for getting to the LPF sensor they show a rotary pump cause that is for the N54 engine, the predecessor to the N55 engine you were working on. If you would've used the AOS system of BMW itself to get to that information you probably would have gotten the proper diagrams and instructions for this car based on VIN ;)

[@alexr.9623]

You seem quite knowledgeable on this particular issue, I wonder if you'd be willing to entertain mine. I have a 2011 535i that has always had a low pressure fuel sensor code. Problem is, the car does not have a LP fuel sensor. The car runs fine but this code has always bothered me. Could it be that the EKPM was replaced at some point and not properly coded to the car? I actually had a BMW tech tell me that the engine or DME may have been swapped at some point!

[@SimplyDiagnostics]

Ivan, great diagnosis mate and you are correct, we are so lucky to have Keith as a friend and mentor. I stand by my comments, some of the jobs he gave you were borderline cruelty 🤣 you handled them with style, you're awesome 👍

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

haha thanks Steve! Sometimes I get the impression that all cars are like that on Staten Island, but it's nice to believe that Keith gives me the hard ones ;) He is truly a great teacher.

[@geoepi321975]

No better than diagnose don

[@neverstoplearning382]

Pure brain melter.

[@aarongrabowski5620]

Simply Diagnostics gonna agree with you 100%. Ivan deff knows whAt he is doing. Just nice to have keith there to confirm ivans diagnosis.

[@wardybasher]

It’s great to see you guys working together as a team to achieve the goal of getting a fix. Giving Ivan the tough ones is testament to the outstanding ability he has. Just brilliant.

[@nicknicu1787]

I would’ve never guessed that thing doesn’t have an actual rail fuel pressure sensor! Great tip on clicking the seatbelt,thanks Keith! As I’ve said many times in the past,many think they’re diagnosticians but you really prove your weight in gold when you deep your feet into Europeans and get them “ wet “ too! Those that discount these cars will become obsolete as technicians because the technology will only trickle down to their beloved Chevy or Ford. Thanks for the video Ivan! 👍

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Great point Nick, the technology will trickle down to all brands. It's already happening!

[@charlesmiller5078]

Hope they just get more and more difficult to troubleshoot. Fun to watch you pull your hair out.

[@aarongrabowski5620]

I second what nick said. Great jobKeith. Ivan is lucky to have you as a friend

[@defendermender4959]

Good old ‘Murica catching up with the rest of the worlds tech of not thinking 9mpg is great “economy”😂 🎣 Save the whales 🐋

[@AP9311]

Wow, no parts required!!! Just knowledge and diagnosis among the greatest people, Keith, Steve and Ivan! With those combined, you get all those Staten Island cars done in a pinch! Great job Ivan, Keith and Steve! Great video! Many many thumbs up!!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Thanks for the enthusiastic comments Josh! It was a blast to work with Keith and Steve for a few days. So much to learn and share, so little time!

[@AP9311]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics agreed. At least you got some in edgewise!!

[@zx8401ztv]

Oh yes keith is the man :-D The lesson to take away with you is: Don't buy a ' Beat My Wallet ' Car, over complex nightmare.

[@lukey3507]

All the German cars are the same. Customer retention on servicing is all the German's have specialised in.

[@IamDerick]

Been an electronics tech for 40+ years and Keith continues to amaze me. You are putting out good stuff Ivan keep it up!

[@danrandle65]

Keith is a exeptional person, his passion to teach his craft is over the top. I personally liked the vid he done with his son, so much patients, as a dad and a mentor. you'll are lucky to have him

[@alexr.9623]

Awesome diagnostics to track this down. I have a 2011 with a low pressure sensor code but the car does not have a low pressure sensor! The car seems to run fairly well but it's a strange code showing how complex these cars are. Great work!

[@jamesbruno5896]

This is why I don't work on BMWs but excellent video!

[@shaunadams3170]

There are no words to describe how knowledgeable and experienced y'all are. Thank y'all for sharing it with us.

[@distinctridesbydavy9353]

Keith is the real machine! Learned a lot from watching. Thanks for the videos fellas

[@gonzgarr1592]

keith is a technical genious he's got all the tools and the knowlodge to go with it

[@electrolineservicegreece8267]

Keith first of all is a great person, with a very good heart and trully honest guy !! That's why all his friends should feel lucky :) Even we ... some random guyz around the globe (technicians or DIYers) we are lucky to have Ivan, Eric O, Mr Danner, Steve, Keith, Diagnose Dan, Leon and many others ... cuz they are ppl with great personality, and very very good diagnosticians !! StrongerTogether :)

[@jdtractorman7445]

I've never worked on a BMW, I'm proud to say. A lot of variables with fixing this one. The book was wrong, special tools needed, etc. This is why auto repair has become so expensive and some shops charge over 100 dollars an hour. It's time consuming just formulating a game plan before you even touch the car.

[@Paul1958R]

Ivan, For a driveway mechanic like myself that was - overwhelming. I'll stick with my 02 and 05 Focuses. Kudos to Keith! Thank you! God bless Paul

[@ScienceOfDiagnostics]

Great resolution Ivan. An added bonus is I get to see of my favorites in one video. Excellent job to all of you. Critical thinking, reading, and research are a definite requirement now and in the future.

[@DaveSender66]

Nice work Ivan! Keith never ceases to amaze me. Steve looks tired time for him to relax! Interesting case study Ivan please keep the videos coming!!! We really are very lucky to have Keith very knowledgeable individual and a good guy with a good heart!!!!!

[@SuperMarioDiagnostics]

Nice find 👍 i like that you included the research, it's huge with these modern systems. Keep em coming!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Thanks Mario! Ironic that we did the research, and it STILL led us in the wrong direction!! You can't make that up lol...can't believe they didn't at least mention some of the variables in Service Info.

[@SuperMarioDiagnostics]

Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics 😂happens all the time!

[@opl500]

The Ultimate Spending Machine

[@jacquesdaoud4263]

you didn't fell the BMW fell you still a top mechanic

[@billyyoder8171]

Thank you Ivan, Keith, and Steve. Y'all are awesome. Good job. Have a blessed and safe week.

[@MrBuddysAdventures]

Great video. Ivan I can 100% relate to you about the expensive tools and knowledge needed to work on cars these days. And believe me you have 10x more than most of us DIYers will ever have (Verus, Pico, Launch, MaxiSYS, Mitchel, AllData etc) as well the experience/knowledge but thanks to the KZbin channels like your's I've managed to do everything that's come my way so far.

[@osbaldoesquivel3645]

Keith's the man! At the end of this video, you said it, gotta invest the money, I've been trying to figure out how to get my 09 535i back on the road due to problems with my fuel supply, funny how just last night I realized that, so next is upgrading my obd 2 and Pro Tool app to get it done,"hopefully" , thanks for the excellent vid's PHAD 👍

[@flatratemaster]

Service info shows the continental high pressure pump and your car has the Bosch system, btdt on those systems i always look for what system it has before starting fuel system diagnostics

[@wyattoneable]

Wow, that was huge in the way many components had to come together to fix this one. Talent and tools!

[@robertgregilovich2229]

Excellent- what a wild ride to the end. I guess when you buy a BMW, money doesn't matter. I heard of a Ford back a few years that was running on half the cylinders. Firing order was changed in production and not documented.

[@erichagler7842]

i feel you on these bmw they can drag you a thorn patch and then throw you off a cliff to find the real problem that you are having ... the last one i worked on was just like that ... lots of codes but only a couple of problems .... .head scratch and plow on .... go after the visible problems first and return on the others .... most of them will fix them self ....great video

[@themechanic6117]

nice work. It sure can throw you for a loop because of a part that doesnt exist! spot on as always

[@jblo6822]

Lesson 1: Don't buy a BMW. Lesson 2: Don't buy a newer car.

[@prmayner]

agree 30000 percent

[@TonyRule]

Absolutely. I don't need the hassle of this completely unnecessary complication in my life. I'm actually dreading having to buy a car when my current 25 y.o. one is no longer serviceable.

[@juweekhan]

Well done Ivan well done Keith

[@mikechiodetti6737]

Incredible! Keith did a fantastic job! Ivan, you did great, just needed a little help!

[@neverstoplearning382]

Very smart from your part letting Keith finish this mightmare. The 3 musketeers in action. Yea baby.

[@stigonutube]

"space control to major tom" bmw launch off..super team work there and nice compliment to Keith, Ivan, yes i can see what you mean, can he fix it yes he can.

[@griffith04]

I'm jealous! You get to work with Keith and Eric and other greats. I watch and learn from all of you guys. I include you as one of the greats on KZbin. I've grown as a diagnostician just watching you guys. Thank you Ivan for all of your posts. I dont have a network of people out here to call when I get stuck. So like I said I'm jealous. I do everything except programming. Keep up the posts.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Thanks so much for your support David! It is a blessing to be part of such a wonderful community of smart and generous people 🙂

[@PaulyD0859]

BMW service info doesn’t match the car? Imagine that!

[@kirkabrahamson1148]

Nicely done Ivan. It's appalling the lack of correct service info available. You are an amazing tech and blessed to have Keith as a friend and mentor.

[@opl500]

All those German automakers really want you taking it back to the dealer.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Thank you Kirk! Every time I work alongside Keith I am humbled by his knowledge and approach to problem solving 🙂

[@vyynl]

How can I find Keith

[@wardybasher]

Always great to see you sharing the knowledge.

[@leedress2187]

We are all lucky to have Keith!

[@Okie-Tom]

Keith is a lifesaver in a situation like this!

[@LakeNipissing]

Is this repairing the fuel pump for a car, or updating the autoflight control system for a Boeing 787 ? This process is beyond insane! What would happen if something interrupted the process mid way, the car becomes a brick?

[@tam1381]

-For you Ivan to say these nice things about Keith is awesome. Yourself being an extremely competent person says a lot of what you think about (Yoda) Keith. You are being taught by the master after all .

[@eddiereichel9354]

Iv had to go ahead or behind a year to get correct wiring diagrams before. My friend's 06 ram I had to look up a 2008 for TIPM wiring.

[@leonardwaker7024]

omg i have the same problem with my 2015 bmw m4 ! i upgraded the HPFP and the LPFP and added a flex fuel and all that good stuff.. and now i am getting that same message .. i hope what you have shown on the videos will solve the problem just a simple reprogramming..

[@ismarmeskovic]

Well Keith saves the day!Well done job boys!

[@throttlebottle5906]

I'd have thought a mid year change, did you try looking at diagrams from a few years ahead and back?

[@gregjones8501]

Nice find Ivan‼️ I try to keep up with all of you guys videos!

[@jimhaines8370]

I hope Keith does take time for himself and family as he seems to put in a ton of hours for sure

[@memphisautodiagnostics4136]

I feel your pain Ivan. hat off to Keith

[@jeremyanthony9300]

Ivan. Talk about a pita to diagnose. Do you own a BMW factory scanner? Does Keith own one?

[@NewLevelAuto]

I sure do. But it does not always allow a single module programming

[@ginuwine11]

Yeah Ivan, would love to do a ride along with Keith, I would then have to review the video in slo-mo to catch everything that he said and fixes, because he’s so quick, 😂 , Thank you guys for a good share.

[@monselara5247]

Some models don't have an LP pressure sensor but I was sure the F10 did. Those up right pressure pumps hardly ever go bad , so maybe does don't have any LP sensors.

[@CubasAutomotive]

Ding ding ding! I actually called it this time!! I just have to be in Staten Island mode! 😂😂😂 Yeah, Keith truly is THE New Level! What a mind on that man! Always into multiple projects, as you probably know too! I don't know how he does it! Great job Ivan, as you had a heck of a wrench thrown into this vehicle! 😂😂😂 😉☺😊🤗🤗

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Yes Cuba you called it spot on! This BMW did not disappoint. You should take a ride on the Staten Island Express sometime 🙂

[@CubasAutomotive]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics hopefully soon.... but boy is it intimidating! Lol I won't lie! 😅😅😂😂

[@autocarespecialist9590]

....nice....great team work...

[@robertshatto2995]

Glad you figured it out,,,,YOUR THE MAN,,,,,,

[@northernpatriot9078]

I noticed during programming it automatically cleared fault code ...... WITHOUT this type of module you would need to at least cycle key or start it up for a code clear ????would this require a drive cycle to learn all variables as accurately as possible or is learning done after programming?????

[@baxrok2.]

Wow, what a struggle. I'm guessing that there wasn't anything on Identifix or similar sites for this one. Also, I wonder what happened to the module in the first place to cause it to need reprogramming? Thanks Ivan.

[@tedesij2]

I wonder if my problem is the same. I have 2012 528i xdrive and I get the fuel supply error after driving for about 30 minutes on a warm day. On a cold day it never shuts off.

[@tyreeshorter432]

I have this problem. What was the problem?

[@jordydereus]

Wow. Keith is the man!

[@robinsonsmotorcycleandauto3929]

ISTA is actually pretty cheap no where close to 30k and all the service information is built in. Great job can't wait to see the next one. Autologic is a bit more because it carries more than just BMW so its essentially multiple tools in one. Sometimes the service info they give us really sucks

[@roxanneabbott8424]

Excellent Ivan and Keith, but I will never own one, lol!!!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Me neither, Roxanne!

[@tiredoldmechanic1791]

Pretty typical of the Germans to change design in the middle of production and not document it.

[@kevinbarry71]

Remember, BMWs are designed in such a way to make you go back to the dealership.

[@throttlebottle5906]

or us smart folks stay far away from them ;)

[@hassanissa9741]

Wow...great case Great work team

[@robertevans6481]

Keith is the man... Lesson 1 Never ever buy a BMW.... Lesson 2 If one has been bought,......find Keith

[@MaciejBielen1991]

In some stage, its really anoying because by doing your job they in some way forcing you to get a expensive device or go back to a main dealer ($$$$$$..) In this case they make me mad :) You have real back up down there ;) All best

[@rickcoleman8903]

My vw beetle is scary enough good job to you guys.

[@zoidberg444]

How long would Staten Island be able to hold it together without Kieth? The man is a machine. Does he ever sleep or get to spend time with his family?

[@wagoosh78]

you never stop learning

[@billziegmond4943]

What I would give just to pick Keith and your brains just for 2 hours. What I could learn would be sooo awesome.

[@opl500]

3 guys working at a total of how many hours at what hourly rate? And this is just to diagnose. Then there's the time and money to throw the right part at it.

[@hpelisr]

Good job Ivan.

[@johnnyblindheim9624]

Launch PAD 3 and newer can also be used....

[@ruelbautista9966]

R u from staten island Cause I'm having the same problem with the fuel thing

[@mikeb7887]

great study and collaboration by members of the "A team" thanks guys Mike B tarrytown

[@charlesjbutler1]

can you run the car with out turbo?

[@josephwash109]

So can we pretty safely assume the original fuel pump control module died from water intrusion?

[@ruelbautista9966]

What shop is this in staten island do u know

[@johnhnetkovsky8917]

All Data states in the repair procedure to program new module. You did not see this?

[@CXensation]

Raw BMW power ... rips your wallet !

[@SmittySmithsonite]

I'd be so frazzled on that one I wouldn't be able to speak right afterward! 😂 That would figure - I never have service info ... then I finally get it, and it's WRONG! 🤣 I'd be melting down for sure. Staten Island is insane! Is there a group of electronics engineers that work full time to try and stump Keith there? 😂 Makes me wonder! Great stuff Ivan - enjoyed all your vids from down there. 👍🍻

[@tomvleeuwen]

You can do this coding and programming with a $ 5,- cable from Amazon and freely available software. (Ths software is called E-Sys, you don't need a launcher / license for programming and coding according to vehicle spec)

[@drone1028]

You have a good link for that E-SYS you speak of?

[@tomvleeuwen]

@@drone1028 I would recommend a forum called cartechnology but it has been down for the last few days. So right now I would recommend just using Google.

[@donnierobertson3088]

Great job again like always

[@lonwillis783]

I like use FLUFF FREE CLOTHS! Good Job Ivan Love your Diagnosing

[@tinkerwest]

You were hindered by the data and limited by the tooling. Put another feather in your cap I've...😎👍

[@ericcorse]

Great job and video men.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Thank you Eric, that one was memorable for sure!

[@richardcranium5839]

ah a pink floyd moment welcome to the machine!!

[@randygould4109]

haha great video ivan butt with out kieth could you have fixed this one ?????

[@bostedtap8399]

Who's Keith?. Interesting conclusion.

[@mynxl]

If the module was never programmed why did it run when it left the factory?

[@frugalprepper]

That was a fun one. 😐😐 Can't fix that one with WD-40.

[@honeybilling4360]

how much it cost to fix it

[@TheStwat]

Jedi Is Master Keith.

[@randyhughes5160]

Even older BMW books were ify at best so leaving out a alternate system is how they keep people go to the dealer ship for miss diagnostics and enormous bills BMW bring money with you

[@northernpatriot9078]

Huh no low pressure sensor but I guess what you would call a synthesized low pressure signal ,but had to reprogram module ok Ivan I missed why module lost programming to begin with I will watch again but I guess you determined there was no low pressure sensor so I thought it must be a synthesized signal from a properly working module right pretty tough one Keith is the Man!!!😎🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸💯😎⚜️----- ok just went back to begining of First video and the fuel pump control module was replaced but I want to know why it ran but not good ---- I assume becuase it is a type of synthesized signal the module still needs to learn certain values parameters to more accurately control low PRESSURE SIGNAL is this a logical assumption IVAN or Keith vis a vis a NEW LEVEL PROGRAMMING!!! huaaahhh

[@abdulqayumwamala1075]

Great video en thanks alot

[@benx8410]

GREAT VIDEO

[@chiluco2000]

Most likely the fuel module just needed to do a "handshake" with the ECU. It would be incredibly inefficient to program every module for every single car built. Either way, this locks you in to buying that expensive tool or going to the dealer. Profit!

[@GraditelMacedonia]

Haaa, I'm right for you question in first part, aaaaand leads us to programming.

[@andrewthompsonuk1]

So someone switched the original module? The pump could be programmed with ebay cables and software (if you know what not to buy). Probably the best part of BMW is what the hackers have done to help support them. Autologic is probably the best best legal way to do it. They also have excellent support.

[@michaeltrinidad1217]

That's why BMWs are a nightmare to own. Don't just walkaway from buying a BMW Runaway

[@Turbotomass]

Older bmw's not so bad. All vehicles are moving towards this direction of needing to have work performed by dealer.

[@michaeltrinidad1217]

@@Turbotomass kzbin.info/www/bejne/m4SclaiambWki6s