No-start No-comm: Mitsubishi V6 -Part 2 (Staten Island Ep.8.4)

[@chadharmon5716]

Don't be so hard on yourself you work on these complicated things every day no ones perfect 👌 your still better than 90% of mechanics out there Ivan

[@wysetech2000]

You're not going to be correct every time no matter how much you try, Ivan. The good part about it is you're learning and you're lucky to have a great teacher. Try not to ever let car repair get you down because it's rewarding more times than not.

[@OneAuto]

That's was one of the most head scratching case studies I've seen in a while Ivan. A freaked out can line and a fuse.... I'm off to get the humble pie and a large amount of cream from the fridge. Well done guys!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

haha Rob... yeah humble pie is one of my favorite desserts!

[@baxrok2.]

"anything's possible in the Bermuda triangle" Yup, and that's why you love it! No humble pie necessary Ivan. You diagnosed that like a boss. You were rushing so much you were literally out of breath. Speed diagnostics are not for the mere mortal! Nice work and thanks!!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

There is always a trade-off between accuracy and speed. Well, unless your name is Keith; then you have both simultaneously hahaha

[@baxrok2.]

motoYam82 Don't forget that experience matters young man! With that comes speed and accuracy. One of the few claims us older folks can make! lol Ten years from now you will be on level few of us will ever experience. It's fun to watch you grow sir. Thanks!

[@pinpointautomotiverepair1592]

Great job finding that short to ground on the can line! As far as this fuse that popped for the ignition coils, one thing I have seen is that these mitsu's have big problems with shorted ignition coils drawing excessive amperage and causing this very problem. These coils are still able to build a magnetic field and fire without causing a misfire, but have high enough current flow to intermittently blow their fuse. Great work Ivan!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Yeah if it blows again I would do a current-ramp test at that 10A fuse :)

[@alanwilson2073]

Customer overcranking and overloading the electronics in a desperate but futile attempt to get the car to start, result, blown injectors fuse. Problem was definitely started and caused by the signal/power wire(s) chafing on the those metal parts. Good eye and still a genius, good thing you went back and double and triple checked your theory thus avoiding a call back for possible shut down of vehicle on the highway or a no start again for this customer. Call backs can be traumatic for any unknowing customer especially in the car repair business. Great mechanics like you are hard to come by these days. Lotta careless and lazy ones out there.

[@stevescott8758]

Watching your videos it’s awesome watching you develop your skills through the timeline Working with Keith has definitely been a positive influence on you.

[@wtfman5313]

Ivan, I hope you know how much people like me appreciate what you do and for sharing it with us.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Thank you for the comment! I really appreciate the feedback and the conversation in the comments section :)

[@kirkabrahamson1148]

Wow. Lol ghosts in the machine. Thing is what was the history on the no start. Did anyone else poke around before you got to it. Its not hard for someone to blow a fuse whilst looking for a problem. You did an awesome job mate. It does look though that you are maybe trying to match Keiths speed. Man that guy has has a ton of experience and that counts for a lot but your diagnostic skills are what shine through. Experience and speed like Keiths will come. I am currently trying to setup a diagnostic business myself and not knowing certain systems can be frustrating but trusting your knowledge and testing procedures will get you through. (I hope). Once again great vid and thanks for sharing. Looking forward to seeing Keith release some stuff as well.

[@Peter_Riis_DK]

We had a mantra when I was working as a electronics engineer: No matter what's failing - check the power supply voltages first! I guess that's a bit more arduous in a car - but nevertheless. Just sayin'. Keep up the good videos, Ivan. :)

[@carlinlentz6849]

I love it when Ivan says "hmm very interesting" XD

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Yeah that gets the mental wheels spinning lol

[@baxrok2.]

Carlin Lentz Eric O. does it too. lol

[@JuanOrtiz-mo8be]

motoYam82 it would have been a great video if you changed the blown fuse before unplugging abs module , bang blows again on the spot and then look for the short , but unfortunately this is a one chance only, as long as the the car is running and make some sense as to what happens it's what matters great job Ivan

[@williamwhite9767]

That's the polite way of saying "What the Fxxk?".

[@jannepo]

What if the CAN bus shorted to ground messed the PCM internals and it turned more than one or all ignition coil drivers on at the same time? 10A fuse can handle only one at the same time. More than that at the same time -> blown fuse. Customer was driving the car -> CAN shorts to ground -> ABS and PCM go haywire -> PCM turns on n+1 drivers at the same time -> burns the 10A fuse. Short to ground is removed. ABS and PCM happy, but still no spark -> fuse replaced -> running car.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Ah now that is a plausible theory....We will never know for sure !

[@JVerschueren]

Do a quick current ramp on that common ignition feed, possibly one (or more) of the coils are going and are briefly drawing something like 20-30A for each firing event. A lot of small overloads will blow a fuse just as sure as one big short will

[@willemstreutgers1154]

Yes, this is a possible cause for sure.

[@killer2600]

When "retracing our steps" I would have pulled the newly replaced fuse to verify if no-comm came back or not. All kinds of weird anomalies can happen when powers or grounds are lost.

[@watajob]

Seriously: Humble pie, my ass! As far as I'm concerned, you're still a genius for finding the proverbial needle in a hay stack!!!

[@DylanRabier]

Really enjoyed this 2 part video. Still leaves us with some questions but you and Keith handled this like a boss 😉 He's getting less camera shy I noticed.

[@NewLevelAuto]

Dylan which questions would you like answered ?

[@DylanRabier]

I'd like to know your opinion on whether you consider the no com on the high speed CAN and the blown ignition fuse as 2 separate problems. Or if there's a link between. I've read some interesting theories here from the other guys. Thx Keith

[@NewLevelAuto]

Dylan it was definitely not a no comm due to the blown fuse. It was in my opinion a blown fuse due to the intermittent interruption in the can line. Ecm was coming on and off line and as you know the ecm needs to catch up with the already running engine and all the other modules again. So the chance for there to be multiple spark events happening all at once or in a multi fire sequence is immense. Off camera we did a quick current ramp and overall visual of the remainder of the fused circuit. No other troubles were found. Hope I answered it well enough ☺

[@DylanRabier]

Thx very much for the short answer Keith 😉 No seriously that's a very plausible explanation. Some of the other guys think along the same lines. Makes perfectly sense. You're making fun of me right? "The no comm is not due to the blown fuse..." 😎👍

[@picoboo5048]

I wonder which happened first, the blown fuse or the shorted CAN line. The blown fuse will for sure stop the vehicle and you would think that the shorted wire would stop the vehicle, but its possible but very unlikely that they both happened at the same time. very interesting indeed, Ivan!

[@haywardsautomotive6156]

Shorted CAN Hi definitely first and it wouldn't start b/c it couldn't communicate with immobilizer. When it didn't start the blown fuse could have been induced by someone or shorted coil(s) which I'm sure Ivan eliminated with a coil current ramp check...he's thorough.

[@Turbotomass]

Great video. What's the lesson? visual inspections? So many variables. We don't get near enough credit for what we do in this industry. Plus no ones an electrical/software/mechanical engineers so there's always going to be unexplained of what's going on.

[@Poke_Boulder]

Dude! Thanks for saving me days of work!! I went straight to the red and yellow wire. Cleaned it up, replaced the 10 amp fuse and boom. My endeavor started right back up.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Cool, that's a WIN! Thanks Stephen!

[@William100-t2z]

Another great video Ivan, I was thinking if you suspect an internal short in the abs module can lines. with the module disconnected would a resistance test from the can high and can low pins of the module to the ground pin show the short.

[@haywardsautomotive6156]

Great video and you seem to get the good ones. Nice finding the chafe wire Red/Yel CAN Hi and looked like Blk/Yel CAN Lo was chafing also. Coil fuse blown could be intermittent shorted coil, someone messing with the coil wires trying to fix the crank no start before you got to it and grounded out the power wire but I know you probably did a coil current ramp check to eliminate that possibility. I'm enjoying your Staten Island videos with Keith...good case studies. Keith probably needed a break from the Land Rover and I've only worked on 2 of them and both had so many DTCs I had to decipher which ones applied plus they have to call everything a different name and "Not Plausible"...now I will only work on one if I feel like poking myself in the eye with a hot needle. Figured I'd make this one longer just for you :D

[@wyattoneable]

It was a good case study just the same. Not a clear cut answer but in my limited experience it's sometimes what we have to be content with. By now time has past so as long as there was no come back then the right decision was made.

[@sinegra30]

At the end in order to verify the ABS module circuit I would pull out the fuse back and check once again for a shorted CAN High circuit. Thanks for your videos Ivan!

[@30kendel]

I knew it wouldn't be an ABS module!! Always has to be a wire being rubbed and shafed. Japanese modules don't usually go out so easily unless it a flooded vehicle! Great work ivan!!!

[@carlford8646]

Nice work Kieth and Ivan, just thinking out loud whilst watching the video next to that CAN line at the ABS mod there was a black/yellow wire this wasn't by any chance an ignition feed? Maybe explain the blown fuse

[@jdtractorman7445]

When yo got the car running after plugging the abs module back in, I thought those abs connector wires could be rubbing there, sure enough.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Dang I had a hard time seeing the short even after a thorough visual inspection!

[@jdtractorman7445]

What kind of clued me in was how they were routed over what appears to be a sharp edge on the mounting bracket. Probably took awhile after years of vibration for that to rub through like that though.

[@thedreadedgman]

wow I thought for sure the ABS module was the issue - pesky sharp metal on copper

[@547Rick]

Great fix Ivan! I've eaten a lot of humble pie in all these years on earth. Yet in each instance I have learned something new. It can be a great teacher.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

As long as you learn something new, it's all worth it in the end :)

[@matttrotta57]

I saw Humble Pie live in Chicago back in '71. LOL

[@robertdavis6708]

Once again Ivan old boy.......you found it.

[@michaelkane732]

you and keith are so smart!!!!!!!!!!!

[@toamataafa4647]

Mr Trouble Shooter himself..Ivan..much respect.

[@garyjohnson2879]

there are two number 24 fuses. that makes it more difficult

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

I just went for the one closer to the ignition coils LOL!

[@serchmarc]

very interesting is equal to " THEEE FUUUCK"

[@jimjones1678]

serchmarc LMFAO

[@somerandomguy3868]

I don't think you would have condemned the abs module with out confirming it was the cause of the blown fuse I wouldn't have unless plugging it back in blew the replacement fuse you especially wouldn't stop until there is no doute, nice job

[@TheMrMator]

It must be nice to work with Keith "The Bull Dog" of diagnostics. You guys are the Best.

[@daveyhouse]

Keith is a SAVAGE at diagnostics.

[@kyhomegarage3430]

Awesome work. Ivan I have question for you. After disconnecting ABS module before you jump your pins to restore communication network wouldn't you have communication on BUS line from PCM alone on pins 23 and 24 ? I know network was still down but PCM should provide signal on BUS line on pins 23 and 24. Hope this question makes sense. Thank you.

[@haywardsautomotive6156]

Correct

[@kyhomegarage3430]

thank you

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Yes, the signals should be there as long as the lines are not shorted, and PCM is "awake". However, PCM would not be able to talk to the immobilizer or cluster or the scanner, so car would be a no-start until network is restored :)

[@haywardsautomotive6156]

Yep the PCM would be extremely lonely with nobody to talk to :D

[@GCraigmile]

Some times over thinking it kicks are butts!!

[@Ulrik47]

I had a problem with Can com. On a 2007 Yaris a few years back. The car started but had all sorts of codes related to Can. That was just a fuse, but i dont remember what the fuse was for.

[@michaelherbert8213]

Keith should create some kind of internship where the intern pays him to tag along with him for the day. I would sign up. Great video Ivan.

[@troutjunkie7330]

Me too. I would move down there just to fallow him around and learn. Keith, do you need free assistant.

[@NewLevelAuto]

Mr Boragus 😂

[@haywardsautomotive6156]

Now that's funny!!

[@aussiebloke609]

I just want Keith's hat Awesome! :-)

[@NewLevelAuto]

aussiebloke609 you need to get Ivan to wear his !!!!!

[@stevedarvanian800]

Thank you so much for your time dealing with a no start communication down issue right now newer version 2011 2.4

[@georgeshadrick640]

Very smart Ivan thank you for your video service

[@deantubeful]

I'm thinking we had a condensation short in the ABS module connector. A condensating moisture condition like that could also have been responsible for the coil power feed fuse blowing.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

I didn't see any green crusties in the connector at all!

[@picoboo5048]

dean hood There should be no reason for the coil power wire to go to or through the abs module. They are 2 unrelated systems other than the CAN network passing through.

[@deantubeful]

Yes I know they are unrelated. I had a similar situation where the whole engine bay had been cool and warm air carrying condensation had got in and temporarily shorted a few connectors. When I saw the condensation on the spark plug connectors in Ivans vid, plus the fact that the short in the ABS cleared after opening the connector, it remminded me of my experience. The coil cons could have been shorted aswell but already dried up ?

[@deantubeful]

It takes a while to corrode. I'm thinking a one off event that either condensed on, or saturated, parts of the engine including the coil connectors ? steam cleaner, pressure washer, driving through a deep puddle or even unusuall atmospherics like early morning warm air carrying a lot of moisture after a particularly cold night.

[@trainer2018]

Look on the bright side Ivan. At least you don't have to traverse across a 40 ft bus to find a can problem like I do. When we have a can issue that is intermittent I do the stomp test on the bus. When other Techs see me stomping on the bus up top they think I'm nuts 🙂 As for the ignition fuse blowing, did any of the coil connectors look wet? Maybe something else that is parallel to the ignition coil circuit is helping blow the fuse when the other component turns on? Just a thought.🙂

[@marco320033]

Bermuda Triangle .! hahaha. NICE WORK!

[@throttlebottle5906]

good, now find the other shorted wire blowing the ignition fuse. it probably was the shorted can bus making the pcm go nuts, or someone poking around blew the fuse. in theory that shouldn't happen, but the same PCM 5v supplies could be used for internal and external and could have triggered injectors to spray like a fog machine and arc like tesla coils, or turned multiple on at once/stuck on

[@jimzivny1554]

I'm thinking what would happen if you activated the ABS while you're hooked up. I don't know when this was filmed but here in NY we've had plenty of wet/cold/warm weather, some opportunities for the ABS to activate

[@JOHNPHUFNAGEL]

check the currant ramp for the coils might have a coil on the way out

[@leebarnes655]

Please, only one problem at a time. Double fix requires two payments. It's rare for two problems to not drive in at the same time but it sure can happen. Could be one of the coils is on the way out for the fuse blow - who can know this before hand? Not even Keith, right? right?

[@NewLevelAuto]

Lee Barnes 🤔

[@MechanicTechnicianRepair]

good diagnostic. amigo.

[@mmichaeldonavon]

Sounds like a thrashing machine!

[@chrisclark010266]

One of the other techs might have drained the oil

[@Nabeelco]

So, I noticed in the first video, that durning cranking, the Tach didn't move. Does this mean the car isn't getting a cam signal?

[@chriskeiley5343]

if this module had a short to ground, is there any way possible for it to pop that fuse? sure the diagram doesn't show it. usually fuses don't just pop, a short to ground will certainly do it.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

I think it would be on a separate fused power circuit...

[@JawadKhan-hz9sc]

I have the same car, with no spark issue. Except fuse is not blown and have power at coil with ignition on... Still no spark... All could can't be bad,,??? Please help

[@DaveSender66]

Great video ! very much appreciate your diagnostic thinking !!!! Happy Easter !!!

[@GarthGoldberg]

You want to charge me how much? And all you did was replace a fuse?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

I get that all the time lol

[@hyeeagle]

Thinks are happens to everyone, at least once. That's why my teacher at the classroom reminds as all the time, STRAT FROM BASICS DON'T JUMP IN THE CONCLUSION... 👍✌️✌✌✌✌

[@raymilligan9556]

great job I-Man!

[@toroon]

I love the weird and freaky.

[@robertcesare2031]

Coil shorted after getting hot, blew the fuse. (?)

[@OldAdventureBikes]

Hey Ivan you should do a video going over all the equipment you and Keith use.

[@garyjohnson2879]

the fuse ??????????????????// two #24

[@bobbell5928]

Ivan, I have been retired for a few years now. I used to be technical support for ADSL and U-verse for AT&T. I had the area from the Broward county line to the Keys(S. Florida) from the ocean to the Everglades. I used a piece of equipment called a JDSU. I believe now called something else. A great piece of technology. The troubles I would find were varied. It was like finding a ghost sometimes. This is for you Ivan...don't touch ANYTHING until you find the problem! And...write down what you see as you proceed. Don't depend on memory. Up to 23 technicians had been to some of the troubles I went on. I never failed to resolve the issue impacting the service. Let your equipment tell you where the trouble is. Find the problem...then correct(as I have watched you do). Even though I am retired and don't need to work...I am contemplating buying a VERUS and jumping into automotive. Please delete after reading as it was meant for you. Thank you for introducing me to this world...it's right up my alley

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Bob, thanks for sharing! Wow 23 techs failed and you saved the day...must have felt pretty awesome! :)

[@bobbell5928]

Yes, it was a very satisfying job. I have hundreds of nightmarish stories. I believe my success was due to A: don't get frustrated(no give up) attitude B: trained specifically for this job by a brilliant person that was over 12 states. I got to look over this giants shoulder and learn from the best C: 20+ years of troubleshooting in general(IQ of 136 didn't hurt)

[@jesusofmalibu4946]

There’s times I’m glad I’m not so technical first place I would have went to was fuses :) I didn’t learn with all those gadgets only later in life.

[@mattanderson1831]

Hey Ivan, ive got a question hoping for your insight. My brothers 02 maxima, p0462, fuel level circuit low input. (fuel gauge stuck high). Ohm'd the sending unit, checked out good. 5 wire connector, fuel pump 12v and ground. Mutual ground and then fuel sensor power and ground. Both grounds check out good but getting no power, actually getting a ground as it light my test light on battery positive. Ran a fused jumper to the power wire and gauge read empty but fuse did not blow. Any insight?

[@mattanderson1831]

thanks alot

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

So where does the sending unit power come from? You need a good wiring diagram to start with and go from there :)

[@mattanderson1831]

Power comes straight from the instrument cluster. Giving it 12v directly didn't blow my fuse so im confused especially since it lite my test light on battery positive. Any reason why I would have a ground on that wire instead of 12v. Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. Wish you were in Staten Island, I would just drive to you and Keith lol

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

OK I just looked at a wiring diagram. The fuel level sending unit is a two-wire design, with one side being a constant ground (black wire, pin 5). The other wire (green wire pin 2) is the power/signal wire that goes to the cluster and the ECM. It should NOT light your testlight since it is a low-current signal circuit, not a fused power. I also assume that you are doing all the tests with Key On Engine Off. Let's consider the facts: 1) P0462: LOW voltage on signal wire, gauge stuck high. 2) You forced signal wire high through your jumper and gauge reacted (went to Empty). This verifies signal circuit integrity. 3) So by design as fuel level drops, the resistance of the sender INCREASES, so voltage on signal wire goes higher. Now my questions are: 1) what does the gauge do when you UNPLUG the sending unit, Key On Engine Off? 2) What is the voltage on the signal wire with sending unit unplugged, KOEO? Remember, just use a voltmeter, it will not light your test light. 3) What was the Ohm value that you read on the sending unit side?

[@mattanderson1831]

Good morning Ivan, thank you for going out of your way and actually taking the time to look at a diagram. So i checked those three things. Unplugged the gauge reads empty. Voltage on the signal wire unplugged was 11.2 V, and sending unit resistance was 17.6, which is accurate bc we just fillled up recently. All done KOEO. Greatly appreciate the help

[@tam1381]

Sunday afternoon and FiRsT. Humble pie, now thats something i eat far to often.

[@halleffect1]

So easy to do in this business. One wrong turn and the path gets really dark and twisty, LOL.

[@johnnyautotech4722]

Nice work,, and Even Got Keith on cam ,,Shhhhhhhhh ...

[@trippplefive]

would have been cool to see if you lost communication if you popped that broken fuse back in again.

[@prmayner]

diagram did show 10 amp fuse, i always pull the fuse even if both sides test good, been burned by bad connection on blade end before. i think Ivan's mind might be on something else, you ok Ivan? the past few videos you didn't seem quite your usual self.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Maybe I had too much humble pie for one day haha

[@tecnaman9097]

Ivan 8.4 Bermuda Triangle 0.0

[@petrocksgarage]

Good video. I hope your laptop has a solid state hard drive or data corruption is in your future if you keep putting it in a running motor. 🤔

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Yup solid state :)

[@happy543210]

that horrible mitsubishi v6 engine clackety-clacking brings back lots of bad memories!

[@glenharper3136]

Don't bake that nice laptop.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

It's a $200 tablet... Remember the first one got body slammed by the Verus? So no worries lol

[@robertwynkoop68]

I felt sad for that laptop also. I was worried about the engine vibration. With a solid state drive in it, your not doing as bad as if it had a mechanical hard disk.

[@sebry25ify]

keith is for sure psychic

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

I call it the "sixth sense of automotive diagnostics". Only acquired by working under extreme time pressure to figure out cars every day for several years, and also having the mind capacity to learn and remember so many cases and details. :)

[@stevedarvanian800]

Could are down due to one or more bad coils will pop fuse again

[@jefftreseder4358]

Hey...that happens to the best of us.

[@Usmanthemecano]

Man if you don't that laptop off of that hot intake lol

[@amr-50]

great video

[@naushadali95]

grate diagnosys

[@RobCarstuff9112]

Happy Easter!

[@nobody-xu8ju]

I've hot burnt the same way but never again

[@SteveRobReviews]

Ok buddy I haven't a clue what going on :)

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Haha Steve did you watch the video? Did you see any missed opportunities where I could have used a LoadPro? :)

[@SteveRobReviews]

motoYam82 haha I gave my Loadpro away and the manual to a buddy on youtube that could use the knowledge.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

You mean Eric O.? :P

[@SteveRobReviews]

motoYam82 keith D got the LP manual haha

[@HollywoodRoseJack]

Humble jail for crazy demons.

[@chungaleta1234]

Cor Blimey!!! This one bit. I still don't get how you guys keep it cool and control yourselves to not swear and curse.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Sometimes you just step away and laugh at the car haha

[@garyjohnson2879]

forest for the trees

[@joseornelas208]

somebody must have washed that engine and water shorted the coil and blow the fuse!!

[@aymenmohamed1134]

👍👍

[@CRAZYAUSTRALIABLOG]

Happy Days (:

[@evgenyk5354]

На заводе кусок гофры пожалели , вот провод и сел на массу.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Бывает...

[@williegillie5712]

Me thinks it’s still the ABS module. Probably intermittent

[@vijaykumar-wv7sw]

that guy looks like a sammy jain

[@YungCaliber15]

Second

[@MultiRedpeanut]

Over thinker.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Maybe. But how would you go about this diagnosis?