Bob Lutz: Live & Unleashed (And Yes, He Talks About Tesla) - Autoline After Hours 436

SPECIAL GUEST: Bob Lutz, Former Vice Chairman, GM
TOPICS:
09:35 - Mid-Engine Corvette
31:47 - RAM: Thanks Lutz!
39:40 - Lutz's Daily Driver
43:19 - Pontiac Solstice
48:49 - Maximum Bob Talks Tesla
56:09 - Doctor Data
59:46 - Lutz loves Rick Wagoner, Lee Iacocca
1:04:44 - Will GM bring brands back to Europe?
1:17:32 - Who should buy Tesla?
1:22:17 - Tesla conversation continues
**There is a technical issue at 1:18:16 in this broadcast For the continued Tesla conversation, please skip to 1:22:17
PANEL:
- Henry Payne, The Detroit News
- Gary Vasilash, Automotive Design & Production
- John McElroy, Autoline.tv
INSTAGRAM: / autolinenetwork
TWITTER: / autoline
FACEBOOK: / autolinenetwork
WEBSITE: www.autoline.tv

[@hectorsmith956]

Looking back at Bob's comment (from a 2021 perspective) he proves that he is a dinosaur in a dinosaur industry and Tesla is the meteorite.

[@ricknoe942]

And from 2023, Ol Bob was completely wrong about every single thing he said.

[@echen71]

Cringe. Demonstrates ignorance and susceptibility to conventional wisdom. Lol.

[@TheMarketisOpen]

It will be difficult for General Motors to buy Tesla, given that Tesla is a larger company. If anything, maybe Tesla will buy GM. But then again, who would want it?

[@RayNLA]

This comment is aging like fine wine 🍷

[@richardblais5232]

I'm really glad that Legacy Auto has Bob Lutz on their side ...

[@magnusauto7941]

Can you get Munro and Lutz on the same show regarding Tesla?

[@ricknoe942]

Have the coroner standing by.... 😀

[@AcmePotatoPackingPocatello]

Picked up my Model 3 a couple weeks ago. Drove it from OLYMPIA Washington to KLAMATH FALLS Oregon, 987 miles. Assisted driving 80% of the time, much of it on Highway 97 in eastern Oregon. Intuitive controls, prompts you if there is like road construction or some issue. A lot of the driving was nighttime all good, cost only $ 33.47 in Supercharger fee. Oh ya, 1000 miles, beat that Lutz ! The mapping and entertainment system is peerless, 100's of podcasts, or punch up Gimme Shelter by the Stones, just a touch away. The car is phenomenal ! Over the years I've owned SILVERADO BMW HONDA TOYOTA'S including Tundra, Tacoma The Model 3 is a completely different level of experience... I compare it to my first love. 1956 Chevy. ✌

[@kkal1183]

4 years later, turns out Lutz is WRONG AGAIN !

[@ultrastoat3298]

God I love coming back and watching this again.

[@djnavari]

The more I listen to Bob Lutz the more confident I am in my general motors short position! I sold short at $60/share and GM is deteriorating fast, currently up 25% as they glide to bankruptcy. Bravo 👏👏👏

[@frankcoffey]

This needs a follow up session. It's been 5 years and lots of changes have happened.

[@Mrbfgray]

Always enjoyed Lutz but he's less in the news lately. He's been wrong about most things Tesla but that's OK.

[@Samuel-ym7ls]

Looking forward to BLutz eating Crow. Please devote a one hour show to it.

[@timherrington1591]

Dutz

[@electrictroy2010]

What’s wrong with Volt? It’s an EV with backup engine in case the battery runs out of juice. (Ditto the BMW i3.) I don’t see anything wrong with it. My coworkers have 5 Volts and just one Tesla on the lot .

[@aurelio-reymilaorcabal9669]

@@electrictroy2010 The Volt is history already , and the Recalled DOLT oopppps Bolt is soon history too, Bob Putz is a Dinosaur 🦕 and his Tesla / predictions didn't age well.😆 LOL

[@Goldsteinphoto]

@@aurelio-reymilaorcabal9669 Not only did it not age well, but Tesla's manufacturing, planning and business structure turned out to be ahead of everyone even when they made this. As for those back up motors and hybrids...unnecessary duplication and complexity.

[@TheMadmax0609]

@@electrictroy2010 serious question, if you're still working at the same place is it five Tesla's and one volt now?

[@---jc7pi]

What I also don't understand, if Tesla has no technological advantage, why don't other people have competing cars? Why does GM, Ford, VM, Honda not have a high value mass production of a electric car?

[@JD-yx7be]

Tesla does have the most advance and cheapest battery packs on the market. With the economics of scale Tesla has with the Gigafactory no other automaker can compete or make a profit for years

[@montestu5502]

- - - The competing cars are starting to roll out from Jaguar, Audi and Porsche.

[@0ooTheMAXXoo0]

Tesla battery chemistry is 15% more energy dense than the closest competitor. They have new chemistry going into production around the turn of the year that will be another 10+% increase in density and uses zero cobalt. Their new manufacturing process will be 1/3rd the cost of their current process. Their energy product sales doubled from last year and they are aiming for another 3x increase in production by next year.

[@KillroyX99]

Tesla will outsell Jaguar and Porsche in 2018, Audi is 2019

[@michaeldautel7568]

mondayfool what do you call losses in Tesla ? Building capacity? Charging Infrastructure ? I see you listing 20k/car but no actual proof,why is that?

[@joeo7257]

3 years later to the day: "Tesla cars were great, the business is a disaster." Oh, how times have changed!

[@AkaAndyKnuckles]

The fate of Tesla truly is the most interesting issue in the auto business for decades.

[@retributionx7696]

I've been analyzing and buying stocks for two years and none of them were as interesting as Tesla. One day it's going bankrupt, the next day they find some solution. It has horrible numbers, but some of the best cars and most extreme growth. And Tesla has one of the most visionary, but also least predictable CEO's. The only thing I know is, that Tesla needs the shareholders and customers to believe in it, and so far there's plenty of belief.

[@therealctoo4183]

@@retributionx7696 Can you name a single public company that doesn't need its shareholders and customers to believe in it?

[@voelkela]

@@therealctoo4183 It's all about belief. 😉

[@rwdplz1]

Crazy ol' Uncle Bob is always good for a laugh.

[@BryceLovesTech]

I drive a Volt but I'm saving up for a Tesla now

[@zacharypernikliyski4830]

Every time I look at my Tesla Model 3 I can stop enjoying the good looks of it and absolutely love it amazing performance

[@Kuth70]

Same here man.

[@blueblood2555]

Hands down the best car I’ve ever driven/owned. After a couple of weeks driving the Model 3 and then driving my Toyota Tundra(the only other vehicle i now own), I have learned the Tundra is a horrible vehicle. I hate driving that thing now.

[@tonys9413]

Every time I happen to catch Lutz speak, I’m reminded why the US car industry is inferior and dying.

[@RonPaulgirls]

AUTO LAME NEEDED BOB LULZ TO MAKE THEM LOOK GOOD

[@FrankySilverFace]

Tony S You're so right. This guy can be full of shit as is the Detroit reporter ass kisser. Lutz spent a career with "yes" men telling him how fucking great he is and it shows when he says stupid shit about other (better) companies that are taking sales away from GM. Although, having said that, his stories of the viper development, the Ram experiment were entertaining. And his argument of declining pride of ownership causing lacking sales vs rentals isn't wrong.

[@farukcarushi4983]

daviesakiller ......I got the passion back....when I studied the Tesla vehicles, now I’m as obsessed as that 14 year old Bob described. Bob sounded pretty good up until the end when he said “Tesla doesn’t have anything special”. He doesn’t get it, he’s ignorant to the facts. He won’t get it until the other manufacturers go out of business or lose their butts trying to produce something better.

[@0ooTheMAXXoo0]

I doubt that he is ignorant to the facts. He has a fortune in GM stock that he has to protect. Last year after his Tesla bashing tour he sold a bunch of GM stock. Maybe it is time for another cash-in? Last chance before Q3 earnings that may be incredibly great for Tesla?

[@jeffwisener1378]

Tony S because he is slamming Tesla, an American made car lol

[@dealerovski82]

Tesla is crushing it!

[@ShaunRF]

My jaw hit the floor when he claimed the Tesla semi prototypes were just plaster models for the stage. No wonder he is so ignorant about Tesla, he simply doesn’t know anything about them. I mean the semis have been on the road and touring the country for almost a year now, and it has been very well documented. He seems to have no idea about this.

[@EnlightenedSavage]

Ignorant no, willfully ignorant maybe. For someone that seemed to talk positively about electric cars it makes no sense why he bashes Tesla from a non informed point of view. He should know better. It seems like some sort of personal grudge against them. Maybe it's simple jealousy, they are doing a better job at electrics, which is sad because chevy does actually make a good electric now. Maybe he is upset that Tesla is forcing a change in the industry and some cant handle it. Maybe he has alot of stock in the oil industry or maybe he likes the attention from bashing now matter how ignorant it makes him look. Whatever it is, it is not going to change peoples mind.

[@hornprof46]

If you drive a Tesla into your driveway, the neighbors WILL notice; I tell you from experience. They all want a ride and they love the white interior

[@eandrae]

Michael Morrow congratulations 👍🏾, GM and other car manufacturers killed the enthusiasm behind cars and Tesla definitely brought it back

[@markplott4820]

Michael Morrow - I want a Tesla P-200-Q, that a Performance edition sedan, with 2170 200 kWh Battery and Quad motors. Give is a Black Matte carbon paint job and a panoramic glass roof, and sports suspension with non Newtonian Fluid for shock absorber.

[@markplott4820]

Michael Morrow - ITS THE CAR......RIGHT ?.......the CHICKS DIG THE CAR.

[@jameshoffman552]

50:36 "..Tesla the industrial business corporation .. is a disaster" How John's tune has changed in the 3 years since.

[@atomicsmith]

48:57 for the Tesla part.

[@atomicsmith]

Also, someone is going to have to put all these segments together into a master cut of the Lulz of Lutz. "Tesla will struggle because they don't make gas cars" Hilarious....

[@ttot1404]

Thank you tons

[@jjhites9855]

Thanks!

[@usaverageguy]

I have to agree that Tesla as a business is on shakey ground. But as a truck driver I have to say that Mr. Lutz is way off on his comments about Tesla trucks. Almost all carriers use trucks from multiple manufacturers. The choice is always made based on cost, and appropriate equipment needs. And as for the comment he made about the display trucks being wood and plaster. How many concept cars has GM shown at auto shows without engines. While Tesla has been pulling loads with their prototypes. Cross country. He obviously knows about the car business. But, I do not understand why he holds so much contempt Tesla, that he would make such obviously false claims

[@waynerussell6401]

And designed by the ex Daimler Cascadia engineer using Model 3 parts that the Germans declared impossible, who is now effectively the CEO of Tesla automotive. Lutz is surely technically and economically challenged when it comes to current EVs. Opening statement all companies taking a bath with Sedans - except Tesla! Model 3 joins X and S today with full 5 Star safety rating. Roll out of best autonomy AI in a few weeks. Only manufacturer using switched reluctance motors and leading efficiency. Highest performance battery packs at lowest cost. Taking market share in class over ICE...

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

"But, I do not understand why he holds so much contempt Tesla..." Because he's a global warming denying moron and probably holds significant stock in the fossil fuel industry.

[@waynerussell6401]

idontcare80 He owns an EV startup Via, that wants to add small batteries to hybridize ICE commercial vehicles, including with Geely. As such he should know how far Tesla are ahead of the pack. He has read the German declarations of incompetency and teardown reports including Munro. He is in denial, or ignorance personified. Not a few dozen powerpacks but giga watts of batteries deployed all round the world - potential bigger profits than automotive. "Many engineers from Volkswagen and Audi; are completely terrified of Tesla." MD of Daimler Benz "Tesla’s expertise is also giving the Germans sleepless nights - but they are far behind Tesla, and still struggling to shake off the Dieselgate scandal." Handelsblatt's Stefan Hajek.

[@usaverageguy]

@Dan Reidy I do not understand your reference to AZ narcotics trafficking articles. Could you explain?

[@duketlam9206]

So Tesla has a horrible business model. Margine on every car is 20 to 30 percents. All other manufacturers will take a lost on every EV sold. That's a better business model? Knowing it's okay to take a lost on every EV sold? What kind of long term business model is that?

[@garyhsu5210]

Lutz: "The losses on California vehicles will be made elsewhere" LOL LOL LOL

[@Carguytct]

Watching this on June 18, 2022. Someone should ask Bob Lutz What he thinks of Tesla now.

[@FrunkensteinVonZipperneck]

Who cares?

[@jameshoffman552]

40:00 Bob gives Franz von Holzhausen sole credit for the success of Tesla, saying it wouldn't have made it but for the design genius of Franz. As Model Y owner, I want to agree with Bob -- the car is that beautiful -- but I think the more engineering-oriented contributions deserve some share of the credit.

[@tigeroll]

Past Tesla customers are stepping up to the plate and donating their time to initiate new Tesla buyers with their new cars. This is unheard of with ANY car makers. Tesla is far beyond what somebody like Bob Lutz has ever seen or can comprehend. Tesla will be here for decades.

[@ivormectin515]

The question isn’t ‘who might buy Tesla?’, rather ‘who might Tesla buy?’. What Bob Klutz misses is that the value of the incumbents will diminish as Tesla’s value increases. Instead of their ICE factories being assets, it will turn out that they are massive liabilities. The less agile, GM being one of them, will have to start offloading their factories to keep afloat. Tesla will be picking up these factories on the cheap.

[@cargueone1971]

Richard Muller /no. They won't. I will agree that currently Tesla has a lead on providing Supercharging network for their vehicles, give them a little lead, but it does not provide anything special that the rest of the industry won't have in 7 years. There's a reason why Toyota pulled out of Tesla. Heck, Tesla still hasn't figured out how to assemble cars yet. They need an experienced outsider, and they have already been turned down by the best. Do they currently make the best electric cars? Yes. Will they in 7 years? No.

[@AllanSustainabilityFan]

@Richard exactly, stranded assets and held back by the pressure to compete with your own lines, major obstacles for incumbents, like steering a Titanic off the ICE-berg.

[@KTPurdy]

Guess you might have some credibility of Tesla wasn't $8B in debt.

[@AllanSustainabilityFan]

You mean Tesla with the #4 highest selling car and #1 highest selling by margins car in the USA? Just because they put all that money back into building more factories doesn't mean their business is failing. It's obvious where this is going, and the fact that every other company is now under pressure to make "real" EVs now shows who's the one setting trends.

[@KTPurdy]

+Allen #5 highest, but point taken. Lutz's point is that Tesla bonds have fallen off a cliff to junk status, mainly because they haven't executed on expectations set when the money was raised. This is a big deal because $2.8B of the 8 is do in a couple of years and with Tesla's current balance sheet there is no cheep money to be had, especially when the remaining is due a few years after that. This is all happening as Tesla burns through mountains of cash. If the debt can't be paid, Tesla will be getting a new CEO.

[@KillroyX99]

Since Bob Lutz does not make cars anyone wants anymore, he has turned his career into hating Tesla and grossly mis-stating the facts. "Tesla is going to the graveyard" - Bob Lutz 2018, and 2017, 2016, 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011, 2010. Bob you are a broken record.

[@0ooTheMAXXoo0]

His fortune is mostly tied up in GM stock. I know he sold a bunch last year after doing the Tesla bashing tour of 2017.

[@PuG001]

Did you actually listen to what he said about Tesla? He gives a ton of credit, he just also recognizes that from a financial/business standpoint they are a mess. And they are! It's not profitable yet, has a bunch of debt, and has a lot of need for additional investment before they're really performing properly. Beyond the cars, the solar side still isn't doing a whole lot in spite of all the hype. There's a ton of promise, but it's also a big mess, and is likely to need some restructuring at some point. I'm not one who thinks Telsa will die & go away, but at some point financial reality will set in, and that's what I'm hearing Lutz say...

[@KillroyX99]

Jonathan Swain, yes I did hear the positive things. I think BOB is jealous. Bob spent his whole career complaining about "bean counters" he literally wrote a book about it. Now he is counting Tesla's beens on Tesla's behalf! The only problem is that he is spread FUD because his facts are wrong. Yes, Tesla needs to turn a profit. The Big 3 have had issues with that in the past, so they are in a similar boat.

[@PuG001]

@@KillroyX99 sure, and when they were in a similar boat, they had to restructure...

[@k.b.2750]

CRAP Killroy - I was so with you and then I read this.. :( www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-musk-sec/sec-sue-musk-for-fraud-seek-to-remove-him-from-tesla-idUSKCN1M72OI I cant imagine this fiasco is based in jealously or hatred or anything else... but maybe just a pot smoking inept moment...? oh well... best buy Tesla stock now if you are true believer..

[@rowesyful]

Please someone make a rebuttal video refuting his claims about Tesla. Fight FUD with facts This is a job for Gali at Hyper Change

[@RonnieLeeDuck]

Actually, I was intrigued by Lutz saying luck was the only difference between Ford making it through the recession and not GM. I think it was worth the time to let him explain that one.

[@EnlightenedSavage]

For someone that doesn't like tesla he sure does like to talk about it...alot. Bizarrely so. It's almost as if he likes the extra amount of attention it gives him.

[@KTPurdy]

Lutz was responding to a slew of Tesla questions. He didn't bring it up.

[@0ooTheMAXXoo0]

Last fall he went on a couple of shows talking down Tesla (they will be bankrupt any minute) and trying to make the old car companies seem like they have a leg up. A week later he sold a huge chunk of his GM stock. Apparently most of his fortune is tied up in GM stock that he needs to unload in the next year or two before it is over for GM so of course he is going to talk as much as possible to try to save the value of his fortune in GM stock.

[@ufotrailers7131]

Lutz has next to NO idea on the future of life or autos, he acts like hes learned nothing in life regarding technology and advancement of new systems and design.

[@KrustyKlown]

Ufo Trailers: Seemed Lutz was not being honest there .. claiming that long duration loans & leasing has damaged pride of car ownership ... when the elephant in the room is the absurdly HIGH price of cars today. When you could save for a car and pay cash or afford to buy on a 3-4yr loan (30yrs ago a 5yr car loan was UNHEARD of) .. then ya felt like you OWNED your car , and took pride in this thing you owned. It's simple to fix, make lower cost cars .. but what former or current CEO is going to say that!!!! ..its easier to blame the the symptoms of the problem: the long bank loans and current leasing culture.

[@theevermind]

How is the price of cars absurdly high? I bought a compact car in 2001 for $16,900. That's almost $24 in today's dollars. Not only can you get a compact car for less than that now, cars now are vastly superior--they are larger, more efficient AND more powerful, safer, more luxurious, have more tech, etc. Today's cars last much longer than older cars. It used to be hitting 100k mi was a true milestone; now it's more like 200k mi. It's further proven by the fact that the average age of cars in the country keeps going up. No, that's not due to people not being able to afford new cars but rather that cars aren't wearing out and going to junk yards. Long loans are irrelevant to the idea of owning a thing. People buy houses with 30 yr mortgages, and they don't feel any less ownership of their home.

[@KrustyKlown]

dMb : Lutz is referring to the good old days, ya have to go back farther in time than 2001, LOL .... from about 1940 to 1980 .. the average car cost less than 50% what the average working person made per year ... over the past 30+ years that ratio has changed a lot, now it's over 70%. That is a huge change, considering what little people have left to spend after paying all their other fixed expenses. (one data source: www.thepeoplehistory.com/70yearsofpricechange.html). The content in automobiles has been growing for decades now, and took a noticeable upturn about 1980-85, as new safety devices and electronic technologies became "affordable", lol. Granted, people were getting a better value, much more car for the money, but they could not afford it ...so the 5yr, then 6yr... car loans appeared, then leasing exploded, and people came to accept a car as a consumable item they did not really own... this has been a very slow transition over decades of time.

[@glencecil293]

48:48 starts talking trash about Tesla. Sore loser

[@russellringland1399]

I'm going to show this to my little boy. He loves dinosaurs.

[@edwardtse8631]

It's funny how Lutz describe all the hacks that is needed to take gas engine car to next level, when an EV can achieve balanced body by Tesla already.

[@markplott4820]

Edward Tse - FACT, you can’t build a clean burning ICE engine.............LOL.

[@airwindandfire7145]

"why buy a Tesla" Bob Lutz = clueless Tesla supercharger network. and the future are all against his aged eyes.

[@jayropxy8223]

Talk about a dinosaurs. Bob even sounds like a T-rex

[@eandrae]

jay ropxy true 🤣😂🤣

[@markplott4820]

jay ropxy - LUTS, even has the TINY hands of a T- Rex......LOL

[@axelrod6707]

dont disrespect the T-Rex 😡

[@Gi-Home]

Battery prices are falling and estimates / trend are that after 2020-23 electric cars will be cheaper than fossil fuel vehicles. The dinosaur car companies will be in trouble. Regardless of Bob Lutz peculiar reasoning on Tesla, I find him entertaining and very interesting and knowledgeable.

[@k1m625]

Bob completely underestimates the disruption that is coming .......car companies are going to get Kodak if they dont move fast enough

[@nofurtherwest3474]

2 seconds in, and you can just feel the old school antiquated ICE energy

[@RayNLA]

Can we get Bob back??? 😆

[@KillroyX99]

Lutz needs to check his facts on Tesla home and grid batteries (Powerwall and Powerpack) installs.

[@Mrbfgray]

Lutz has been consistently wrong about Tesla. Had he been right T would already be gone. He's clearly wrong about Tesla battery and electronics technology. Why do we still listen to him?

[@tribalypredisposed]

Bo McGillacutty, Lutz is a museum piece, like watching a movie about the future made in 1960.

[@777jones]

At least Bob knew a lot about making good gasoline cars. There is a lot to be said for that. Maybe he is out of date as of 2020, but he is going on 90 years old. So cut him some slack.

[@Mrbfgray]

777jones Sure, he earned his place in history and respect for his contributions in the past, by now he has earned disrespect for his inability to adjust to the present. Maybe he should stick ancient history because his recent history has been pathetic misguidance.

[@blackscotydog]

tesla would gone if not for US tax payers

[@Mrbfgray]

blackscotydog GM would be gone twice over if not for US tax payers. Tesla probably not. The loan Tesla got was paid back with substantial interest way ahead of scheduled, they didn't need it to survive, it only helped them progress more rapidly and the subsides for individual EVs are running out for Teslas and they never even came remotely close to leveling the playing field in terms of subsidies, trillions of tax dollars have been used to subsidize fossil fuels over the years.

[@monsterous289]

"Have to have a polarizing appearance, and if only 1 in 4 people like it, that 25% will really love it." -Bob Lutz, Autoline After Hours 436, 32:22 Sounds like the CyberTruck to me!

[@---jc7pi]

"Everybody else can afford loses on electric and subsidies with ICE". The problem I have with that, is that the ICE is also a huge drag. Having tons of electric model and ICE models they will compete against them-self and they will not want to make electric models that take the cake from their own ICE models that make profit. So the question is really, can you make money with your electric vehicle, and Tesla absolutely can and will for a couple years, lets see when the others will.

[@tribalypredisposed]

- - Yeah, this is something these automakers can do while making 20,000 EVs a year. But EV demand is for millions a year, and this is a major purchase that buyers are going to stop accepting the available ICE cars they are being offered. To really transition to EVs the automakers will have to shut down production lines and convert them, and make millions of EVs a year, and do it while having the batteries they need at the same rate as the EV demand ramp. The other automakers will be spraying red ink like a Japanese Samuri movie.

[@ettorefieramosca5460]

Tesla is not making money with ev. And the story telling about their big margins actually the account data says are false.

[@0ooTheMAXXoo0]

Nope. You have been lied to. They are a publicly traded company so no excuse for believing BS when the numbers are available to anyone. They make 30% margins on their products. You can see that their spending on growth is where their margins get spent. Look at their revenues and remove what they spend on growth and you will see that they are positive in a major way if you include all expenses apart from the growth.

[@therealctoo4183]

Holy crap! Lutz is *STILL* talking about ICE as if it's the latest technology. He really is a dinosaur.

[@williamgreene4834]

He's not a dinosaur. If you watch his tongue, you'll see that he's a lizard.

[@hyperlogos]

Tesla DOES have technology no one else has. Their motor is provably superior.

[@robertpryor7225]

Great idea for the next Vette, put batteries on the bottom for low center of gravity, instead of mid engine, put the motors at each axle.

[@voelkela]

Wow!

[@firstbrotherDK]

Bob is great in everything in automotive industry apart from commenting on Tesla...

[@claytonroot806]

1:22:17 Yup, Yup, Yup! Right on Mr. Lutz. Tesla has NO technology anybody else can't duplicate, in batteries or anything else. It's interesting that mighty Volkswagen just signed a deal to purchase TESLA battery packs for their Electrify America Charging Stations. Almost to the day, Tesla also bought Maxwell for their SuperCapacitor and cutting edge Solid State Battery Technology. Gotta wonder if Panasonic's recent partnership with Toyota influenced that decision. All these old "Legacy Farts" seem to think Tesla is just going to sit around and wait for the competition to catch up and eat their lunch. Meanwhile Tesla keeps moving the target ahead with State of the Art technology. Suspicions are that Tesla has been testing and verifying Maxwell's technology (which appears to virtually double Watts/Kilogram) and may have actually demonstrated it in the Roadster and the Semi. I'm sure with the talent pool in their engineering department, Tesla is AWARE of every potential cutting edge technology coming down the pipe, be it from John B. Goodenough and his team or anybody else in the world.

[@swelihlememela1282]

Thanks, guy, Mr Lutz needs to be updated on Tesla before he makes any comment. He got the "Tesla technology" and "semi" wrong.

[@wg4476]

If you want to hear dated ideas and old business tactics, then invite Bob Lutz on the show. A great example of how old auto thinks like. A great reason why legacy auto companies are still years behind from where Tesla is today. This reminds me of the time Toyota distanced itself away from the old established auto industry practices of making up profits by planned obsolescence. Today, Tesla has no equal in a similar way and Lutz still doesn't get it... and probably will never accept it even if the answer is directly in front of him. Or maybe their will be a hint of it as when Lutz made the comment which praised Tesla's build quality.

[@nycameleon]

Mr. Lutz concedes that Tesla cars are great, but the business side is the issue, then in the next breath says Tesla has nothing special going for it cause everyone has access to Electric, Autonomy, and ability to make more cars. It feels like a contradiction to say it's special, but nothing special.

[@laplesyrup]

nycameleon The guy is an old fossil refusing to go away.

[@incognitotorpedo42]

Meh. Lutz is senile.

[@0ooTheMAXXoo0]

Business side of Tesla is also doing great for many years now. Bob has a fortune in GM stock. After last year's anti-Tesla tour he sold off a bunch of his GM stocks. Maybe he is looking to unload some more GM stock and is manipulating the prices as best he can?

[@laplesyrup]

The old fossil is suffering from a major case of double-speak.

[@bluezcluez315]

"The pinnacle of GM technology"...it has pushrods...

[@eandrae]

Steven Sherman 😂🤣😂

[@monsterous289]

50:50 "Will they want an EV, or will they just want a Tesla." Holy mackerel, he hit it on the nose. And that was in 2018??

[@ChuckSilva]

I’m a proud Detroit Er....bob lutz is everything wrong with OLD Detriot ...ugh!

[@robertpryor7225]

Detroit should have tried to attract Tesla.

[@bru512]

I hope I never end up like Bob and stop listening and asking questions.

[@IamBHM]

Good interview. Loved hearing about the history and possible futures of companies like GM and Ford in this one. Felt that the Tesla talk (especially in the chat) was more heat than light though. But speaking of Tesla and shedding light on things, I know this is probably just a pipe-dream of mine but I would love to hear you guys interview J.B. Straubel (Tesla's Chief Technical Officer and one of the company's founders) about technology and his views on the future of the automotive industry.

[@ramblerandy2397]

But Bob, you miss a point. And given that Munro has suggested, on Autoline Network, and shown the numbers to John McElroy, that Tesla can make upto 30% on every US35K Model 3 they make, they are one manufacturer who 'can' come down in price. And John McElroy seems to have a faulty memory if he disregards what Munro said.

[@montestu5502]

Rambler Andy - If you crunch the numbers you will see that they make less than 1% gross profit on the Model 3 selling at $57K (per last quarter). There will be NO $35K model 3’s as they would lose a substantial amount of money on them.

[@ramblerandy2397]

@@montestu5502 So when an expert like Munro says Tesla make a lot of profit on each of their vehicles he doesn't know what he talking about? Yes, Tesla do make a lot of profit on their cars, but as they are still in a startup phase they are still struggling to make an overall profit. Expansion doesn't come for free.

[@montestu5502]

Rambler Andy - Well I listen to the earnings calls and I crunch the numbers so I know what I am talking about. The 30% profit margin claim was from a consulting company that tore the Model 3 apart and calculated the cost of every component. Kind of a silly way to do it when all you need to do is read TSLA filings at sec.gov and listen to the earnings calls and get a calculator out to determine what the true margin is. In the last quarter they were “slightly positive” gross profit on the Model 3 and that was at a calculated $57,195 ASP. That “slightly positive” was their way of saying less than 1% gross margin.

[@0ooTheMAXXoo0]

Every production ramp looks like this for Tesla. The model S and X reached 30% margins pretty quickly after starting production. No reason to believe Tesla will fail the third time after being successful twice. Did you not hear that their battery production is about to get 3X cheaper? Also they sell the top of the line model 3 in huge numbers which gets higher margins than the $57k version. Last quarter is also hugely different from where they are today. We are talking almost double the revenue from last quarter...

[@montestu5502]

0ooTheMAXXoo0 - S&X reached 30% gross margin last quarter at an average selling price of $103,000. That price has a fairly limited market. The promise was for a $35K Model 3, which isn’t going to happen. So how many of the 420,000 reservations are going to seek refunds as they don’t want a $60K+ Model 3 when they can just buy a used Model S, which is a nicer car? In any event, I don’t see how they can make enough money on these to cover their R&D and GS&A costs, not to mention all of their debt and interest. Elon said they would be cash flow positive starting this quarter, so I can’t wait to see how they pull that off.

[@IJustHitTheFan]

His basic assumption is the car business will be mostly ICE forever, with a small number of electrics sold at loss for compliance. This thinking is exactly why conventional automakers are lagging in EVs. Not buying into this. The future is electric, pretty soon 50% of the market will be EVs and automakers won't get away with selling low-range low-performance wannabe Tesla killers at a loss. Speaking of Lutz, fancy a Volt, anyone?

[@electrictroy2010]

What’s wrong with Volt? It’s an EV with backup engine in case the battery runs out of juice. (Ditto the BMW i3.) I don’t see anything wrong with it. My coworkers have 5 Volts and just one Tesla on the lot .

[@bradcomis1066]

Lutz has such interesting insights. I love hearing his thoughts on things. His ideas about car ownership are absolutely fascinating.

[@seanz6586]

Brad Comis he has gone off the rails

[@nofurtherwest3474]

Ok, gave it a chance, and these guys are somewhat objective. I appreciated their openness while talking about electric vehicles. around 51:00

[@hoffmantnt]

From all of Bob Lutz' comments about Tesla I thought he was about the dumbest person on Earth but he was encouraged to be a little more temperate in this interview by the rest of the pannel that know cars better than Bob.

[@laplesyrup]

It is quite amusing to see old fossils speculating about their own future.

[@markplott4820]

Lap Le - the ICE age is OVER.

[@thebronxpops268]

Lutz just described Cybertruck , as much as he hates it

[@farukcarushi4983]

For me the “lust” and excitement is for electric cars. I’m very eager to see them in the market and on the streets, and with increasing range capabilities.

[@markplott4820]

Faruk Carushi - one problem, ICE car company want EV to fail, so they can keep making ICE car. The other thing is , ICE car makers are using inferior laptop LION battery, not more Advanced battery like the 2170 LION that Tesla uses. right now Tesla is getting 310 miles range in just a 75 kWh Battery, the Flagship Model S sedan gets 250 miles in its 75 kWh Battery. By 2020 Tesla will have a Battery that gets 620 Miles on a Charge with a 200 kWh Battery.

[@farukcarushi4983]

Mark Plott excellent! Can’t wait, very exciting

[@theevermind]

Buying more battery than you need is dumb. No one drives 600 mi in one sitting, so anyone who pays for that deserves to lose their money. Range / battery size is a measure of the car's efficiency, just like mpg. It's not a measure of the battery's level of tech or advancement.

[@farukcarushi4983]

dMb .....true, but with electric cars the range drops fast when traveling at freeway speeds on a cold day with the heater on. The model 3 is supposed to yield 310 miles per charge, I don’t think it will yield those miles under the above conditions. Thus, if a battery is officially rated to yield 450 or 500 miles per charge, I would be sure to get my 300 miles per stint at 80 miles per hour with the heater on. I just woke up.....does this make sense?

[@Derpy1969]

How’s ol’ Bob doing in 2023?

[@jeffgriffith7087]

lol, Bob Lutz - this aged well. The Sears, Kodak and Blockbuster Video of automotive, lol. Love the Mustang though.

[@commuterbranchline8132]

I just love watching these automotive Good Ole’ boys back slapping each other and completely, totally, utterly missing the point. Extinction awaits…..

[@boots_n_coots]

I love it when Bob causes the Tesla fanatics to have a huge collective breakdown, haha.

[@Vivra_Verra____]

Now that Tesla is finally in the S&P 500 and is bigger than all the others pretty much combined, it’s not wonder why us Tesla fanboys have been attacking him. He was so wrong and stupid

[@10melvis]

This didn't age well for Lutz on his comments with Telsla.

[@FrunkensteinVonZipperneck]

Old - Office Boy - Bob hasn't aged well either...

[@aurorajones8481]

Tesla should make EV drive trains for the big truck makers.

[@theevermind]

And big car makers need to swallow their pride, purchase batteries from Tesla, and license use of the Tesla supercharger network.

[@markplott4820]

Aurora Jones - TESLA offered the TESLA drivetrain and battery to GM And others, they mostly refused. Imagine if a mustang had Dual motor and a Tesla Battery .

[@guiseppehammer]

Wow guys 🤯, I'm still reeling from the hard journalistic research questions you guys countered with on Bob Lutz Ludacris and unfounded remarks on Tesla's business model were. #GreatJournalism If you get replaced by or consolidated from some news app, you can bet this is, in part, why.

[@shilohadminshilohpaintingi4769]

Is bob’s head in the sand or does he get paid to be dense? I know he’s smart so I think it’s an emotional thing. He tried what Elon did and does. He’s not a neutral opinion and never has been. Bob failed where Elon already succeeded.

[@lilredcummins]

Since this was 3-1/2 years ago, I admit that I didn't expect some of the insight of Lutz. However saying Tesla has "no technology that nobody else has" is so totally wrong. Bet he is eating his remarks now! This is what I expect to hear from a big 3 boss. That philosophy will doom the OLD companies.

[@Otterbruce]

Cannot wait to watch this episode again. I like Lutz, but I remember thinking he might be wrong about Tesla back when this was live.

[@joeo7257]

4 yrs later Tesla is kicking his butt.

[@bcuz2975]

If the public has to lease to afford new cars the pride of ownership does erode. To renew ownership value do we just keep the vehicle we own for a longer life and refurbish them with new technology? I don't see any auto makers getting prices down on a cool vehicle I want to own. Paying $40kplus seems wrong to my value system.

[@eandrae]

B Cuz GM business model is the real reason people lease and have no pride of ownership because they sell over price junk cars that devalue 10k a year after its purchased, Tesla and electric car can may be changed that because of the upgradability and cost of ownership

[@markplott4820]

B Cuz - you are actually better off buying a Certified Used Tesla than a new $40,000 new car.

[@cratecruncher4974]

I remember a funny line in one of Lutz's books. He said letting a car guy develop your product line is like handing an alcoholic the keys to your bar. At 37:00 his diatribe about bean counters being like brakes on a car is especially resonant. Bob Lutz likely needed brakes.🤪

[@4dthinker582]

You can't make up lost electric car price losses with sales of gas cars if no one wants to buy your gas powered cars. Sale numbers of gas cars competing with the S, X, and 3 from Tesla are going down fast. They'll go down even faster once there is an electric car to buy (at a loss for the company) available.

[@markplott4820]

4D Thinker - The ICE age is over, soon countries will ban NEW ICE cars by 2030.

[@theevermind]

EVs won't take over until their total cost of ownership is less than ICE. That won't happen at least until mid 2020s, but with planned improvements to ICE, it won't be until 2030 or later.

[@markplott4820]

dmb - FACT : you cant make a Clean Burning ICE car. and ICE Efficiency caps out at 30%. EV's are taking over Right Now with the Model 3. FACT : Top Cars Traded to buy a Model 3 are #1 - Honda Accord, #2 - Honda Civic and #3 - Toyota Prius. FACT : Tesla Model 3 is the #1 EV in America, having 67% Marketshare . and Tesla overall is 87%. FACT: Tesla Model 3 is Selling faster than the FORD Model T sold. FACT : Tesla Model 3 is #4 Top Selling Car - Period. Tesla model S at #5 and X at #6. beating out BMW, MBZ, VW, AUDI, FORD, GM, among many others.

[@0ooTheMAXXoo0]

Europe is already there. All cars emissions free by 2030 is the rule already. The whole country of Sweden will be emission free by 2030, no emissions from any source. Sweden is convincing people to give up air travel because there is no emissions free way to fly and it is actually one of the most dirty modes of transport...

[@edwardpatel899]

Tesla is not just a car company. Its a battery company, a solar company, a charging network company...and in Elons Part Deux of the "master plan" he covers things like sharing network, and other things that can happen when self-driving is solved. I am excited about Tesla.

[@paulcummings55]

Bob Lutz is a very smart man, so it is hard to understand how he has this so wrong! First- Tesla has become the Apple of the Energy sector- yes, not just the automotive sector, with all that implies. Second- Musk is a visionary like Jobs was, but a scientifically smarter version. And while you point out how Jobs was let go to boost Apple stock, you leave out the huge drop Apple eventually took, almost to bankruptcy- until they brought Jobs and his vision back- only then did they rise to the most valued company on the planet. Third- Tesla has 10 years and millions of miles of real-world data to apply to their EVs- no one else has this. Fourth- Tesla is already selling their cars at a profit- other EVs are already being sold at a loss, even at the same price. Fifth- Tesla already has a very large network of Super Chargers- what good is your long-range Mercedes or Audi if you can only fast charge them at a dealership. Sixth- the SEC investigation for Elon's tweet is NORMAL, not an aberration, and nothing will come of it. Seventh- By owning the factory, Tesla will have no supply issues for their batteries. Eighth- the costs of batteries have been plummeting for years, and will continue to drop in price even while increasing in capability- by the time the old Automakers get around to it, EVs will already be comparable in cost to current ICE cars, probably over the next 4-7 years. And Ninth- and probably most important- Tesla is all-in as an EV company. The Old Automakers are not. They are only part-way in and not committed- they are saddled with their ICE products. Look how your company, GM, handled the Volt. Worse, their network of dealerships, who they are stuck with, are not just clueless about EVs, but are downright negative about them. They are going to push ICE vehicle sales over EV sales. It is going to take years to change that culture. And they don't have years...

[@marshallhall6449]

The very best show let’s keep it going!

[@terryl6706]

Bob looks like the typical Corvette owner

[@bluezcluez315]

Nobody else has the seamless Supercharger network. And every other OEM has to balance investments and marketing of ICE vehicles. Nor the mission.

[@markplott4820]

Steven Sherman - Legacy car company are Stupid, they are only slowly putting out slow chargers and not even making their EV able to fast charging. Musk offered to share Supercharger with GM and others, they refused.

[@jcval87]

BS. the Tesla pickup is going to kick the ass to the competition.

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

The one that's based on the semi? It's probably going to cost more than $150,000! Anything less than that wont have the range to tow for a significant distance, which means that it wont sell very well.

[@jcval87]

Elon said the pickup would have an option with 500 miles and tow 300,000 tons

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

You Tesla nuts are scary dumb. 300,000 tons is basically the weight of 3 aircraft carriers, nothing more than 80,000 *POUNDS* is legal on the road without special permits. Like I said, that truck will cost about 3 times what a normal pickup truck costs, so it's not going to be any more of a sales success than the International XT.

[@jcval87]

If it is legal or not does not matter, since it is possible the tesla model X can make those figures as the vw touareg, the most possible is that it can do about 30 tons since the electric motors do not have problems with towing, only that the range would be affected.

[@jcval87]

in my opinion the price could be about $ 50,000 base, up to $ 100,000 fully equipped

[@techiheed1845]

28.12.2023. Watching this for first time on back catalogue of Autoline and I love Bob's outlook on the GM models. It's been so informative listening to him, even now in late December 2023. The facts are incredible in decisions taken back then, down to the fighting that has gone on in investment. A great leader! Bob was for sure a formidable leader in GM. The business model, IMO, is not going to work now in this global market today. Nevertheless, what a great broadcast. Thanks.

[@zacharyeversole]

Bob opinions have aged like a fine milk

[@juanmedinar20]

This seem to be a Tesla positive video. The other guys were not in agreement with Bob. And Bob was somewhat positive on Tesla.

[@hotrizzle15]

Poor bob, just looking at him makes me think Buick.... 🤮

[@jameshoffman552]

1:24:32 "As for the electric semi, I think both of those were push-mobiles ..." I think you're thinking of Nikola, Bob.

[@Mabeylater293]

55:50 no ad was put in 🤣🤣

[@aurorajones8481]

Great show! Really fantastic. I agree with many points brought up.

[@AllanSustainabilityFan]

Great shows guys. Always great to bring old Bob over for some comic relief. An expert on failing business and bailouts for sure lol. What's more amusing is hearing Bob dismiss Tesla on one hand, and Mary Barra giving Tesla credit on the other, for pressuring GM into improving and trying to compete the Bolt. For all we know Tesla might have saved GM from itself the way the global market is headed, making them work on future tech before the rapidly advancing Chinese EV companies - BYD etc - sweep in and take over the world's transport markets unchallenged.

[@soumyarooproy]

I thought McElroy was being facetious when he was telling the Humvee anecdote. Oh well... 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@h25b]

Bob’s takes on Tesla have traditionally aged like milk.. these are no different.

[@brandoYT]

Did GM crush the Hummers??

[@jcval87]

more than half of the pickups sold today are above $ 50k + so if Tesla positions it with a base price of $ 50k it would sell well.

[@markplott4820]

Jcvalnar - Tesla will make the $25,000 car in 4 years then the Tesla Pickup for about $ 40,000 base with ZERO options.

[@JD-yx7be]

I think 1/2 ton trucks the average selling price is $37k. I think Tesla is going to go after the 1 ton truck market first where the average selling price is much higher.

[@montestu5502]

Jcvalnar - Sure sell another vehicle at a loss! Right now their $35K model 3 needs to sell at $57K to break even.

[@markplott4820]

Monte - wrong ! the $35,000 model 3 makes TESLA 30% profit, everything else including RWD, Dual Motor, Performance Package is all Butter for Tesla. its why its #4 car sold in America.

[@montestu5502]

Mark Plott - You do not know what you are talking about. First of all, there is no $35,000 Model 3. Second Elon Musk said in the last investor call that the Model 3 was “slightly profitable”. That is code for less than one percent. The ASP of the Model 3 last quarter was about $57,000. I listen to the calls and I read the SEC filings. The “30% profit” number came from a consulting group that tore apart a Model 3 and said that based on what THEY thought the cost of the components should be, Tesla could make 30%. Obviously the consultants were off on their cost estimates.

[@tesla.8410]

1:17:44 BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAA - This guy cracks me up :D

[@dpmyt]

Thanks for a great interview. Methinks Bob needs to drive a Tesla Model S/X P100DL in order for things to start making sense.

[@peterrobannsobrepena6029]

👍

[@Akira-nw4jl]

Bob needs to talk to Sandy Munro !!!!!