Bonhoeffer's Religionless Christianity - part 1

[@BlackhawkPilot]

I have been reading Pastor Banhoffer for years, visited several sites associate with him including where he was executed at the Flossenberg Concentration Camp, just a few km from my home in Weiden in der Oberfals. In Germany church attendance is low, except for Feast Days, but most Germans elect to pay the Church Tax, a taset nod to acceptance of a Higher authority. The practical point is they can be married and buried in the church.

[@metapolitikgedanken612]

I read him as well. But I wondered whether Bonhoeffer was a Christian or just trying hard to pretend to be one. Because with all the Christian lingo being used, it appears as if he is trying to 'design his own thing there'. While I get the objections to some of the traditional views, some of the more fundamental statements are not reconcilable with core tenets of the gospel. He's however mostly rather cryptic about this. It's as if he is an early post-modernists, which is essentially a denial of truth, while trying to argue from truth.

[@soluschristus8360]

The Nazis are postmodernist among other evils, by definition. With a mere click of the keys you, oh very little god denigrate Bonnehoeffer with your erudite flippancy?? You expend two calories thumbing your opinion here in the cheapest seats. Bonneheoffer stood up in the pulpit and walked his words to the Face of Butchery with his imperfect theology as proclaimed by you. Well. Whatever anyone chooses to think of his theology... Bonnehoeffer was a Living Sacrifice and walked into Heaven a MARTYR FOR THE FAITH.

[@MarkDouglass-dt9ky]

Some Americans (maybe 30 percent or so) are secular through and through. It's almost scary. And They are almost always Democrats.

[@GaylaKenney-i2f]

@@metapolitikgedanken612 Is this because he actually spoke up against the Nazis? But what I don’t get no one questions the pastors in Germany that did nothing, they seem to be off the hook. So because we’re Christians, we are supposed to do nothing but just sit while the guilty are being declared innocent and innocent declared guilty?

[@davehansen6112]

@@metapolitikgedanken612 Wow, unbelievable. No, Dr. Bonhoeffer definitely was NOT a Christian; he actually thought it was unscriptural to murder Jews.

[@markrichter2053]

It’s good but really frustrating when a video is ten minutes in and we’ve still not heard a single quote from the man himself

[@mariajordan3650]

Dietrich Bonhoeffer was teaching theology before the war and wrote books also in that time. The Book "Discipleship" was wrote in 1936

[@CornCod1]

I'm a Confessional Lutheran attending an online seminary. I did a paper on Bonhoeffer's Cost of Discipleship last year. My overall impression is that Bonhoeffer was a kind of subtle, but real, legalist. In the 30's he worked with the most theologically conservative Lutheran theologian in Germany at the time Hermann Sasse to oppose Hitler. Sasse eventually distanced himself from Bonhoeffer due to his liberalism. Bonhoeffer was originally ordained in the Prussian Union which was not really a Lutheran church but a Lutheran/Reformed fusion church, which ended up being de facto Reformed.

[@BirdDogey1]

Im by no means an expert on DB. I have found especially smart people explore topics from a myriad of perspectives as a sort of challenge. Outsiders may assume a person like DB may be X, Y or Z. All maybe wrong. Your description of DB is shared by many of Phillip Melancthon. Probably accurate.

[@divadaedalus]

He actually was imprisoned for his part in helping seven Jews escape from Germany. His part in the assassination was discovered while he was imprisoned.

[@aesop1451]

It looks like he didn't read Matthew 27:25

[@1sweffling]

Here in the UK we do not have a State religion, but the Queen, as Head of State, is also Head of the Church and Defender of the Faith. An interesting paradox. We do not pay church taxes and each individual Parish has to find funds to help keep the Church building whole but the Church of England does have huge invested wealth which is used to pay Priests and help with the running of Parishes. Now we have a new Monarch who styles himself Defender of all Faiths but is a practicing Christian. His son, our next Monarch, says he has no affiliation with Christianity or interest in the Church. Are we heading towards Religionless Christianity? As I have grown older my position has changed and now I view a secular society as one in grave danger: was it Jung or Nietzsche who suggested that God is dead and in that case humanity will replace Him with another God? I fear we have reached that point in Europe.

[@frederickcollins9228]

In our revival crusades the preacher's theme was: "...but have you met Jesus?" Seems to address all concerns. I am Caribbean Methodist. Outreach attempts bring us into contact with some mindsets you describe. Of course, there are those within the church who have settled into the patterns of thought you describe.

[@sqidpro2986]

Bon Hoffer‘s words belong to people no matter what their beliefs and I’m sure as a follower of Christ only goal was gospel

[@JesusLovesBest]

read the Book of James to find the definition of true religion.😊

[@norxgirl1]

"...that part of religion is gone, that sense of authority is gone..." What about the Papacy and the RCC?

[@metapolitikgedanken612]

It applies to Catholicism as well. Albeit to a lesser extent. Change in the culture shouldn't change anything in Christ's kingdom, though.

[@askachristianchannel]

I wanted to know that there are many Christian protestant denominations which do not claim the false teachers within that camp. Such as often found on television.

[@repete763]

What biography do you recommend ?

[@markfacknitz2775]

I highly recommend Charles Marsh's _Strange Glory: A Life of Dietrich Bonhoeffer_ if you're looking for a responsible and highly readable biography.

[@alfmaxey6090]

Thanks I appreciate the recommendation 😊

[@ronaldbean3308]

I am disappointed that you would call Focus of the Family "Anit-Gay." Are you saying that God lied in the Scitpure by saying "the sexually immoral will not inherit the Kingdom of God?" They are Pro-family.

[@ricksanborn6629]

In the fulfillment of the law there is no longer a Biblical law against homosexuality. There is only advice that it can be associated with the same selfish sinfulness that can afflict us all, such as the legalistic judgmentalism that would lead us to categorically condemn it in disregard of Jesus's clear instruction of our disqualification to judge.

[@CornCod1]

@@ricksanborn6629 Horsecrap. Condemnations of homosexuality are in the epistles, so trying to turn it into an Old Testament ceremonial law is intellectually dubious.

[@bobhawkins2997]

Respectfully, That is very incorrect. Jesus affirmed marriage is between one man and one woman. He affirmed their creation order of things.

[@dl8909]

@@ricksanborn6629what does Rom 1:26-27 mean?

[@ricksanborn6629]

@@bobhawkins2997 He is an affirmer of the marriage covenant, but that does not negate the fundamental change he effectuated in the law, transforming it from something as dead as two stone tablets into a living thing that knows our hearts and judges us on the basis of our self-justifications without regard to nominal transgressions.

[@subcitizen2012]

Thanks for the upload and addressing the evangelical trend of appropriating Bonhoeffer. For posterity, Einstein's relativity is a scientific principle related to space-time, Einstein's relativity is not a philosophical or moral concept or pronouncement.

[@gavinisrael6125]

Was never apart of the plot to kill hitler however he had strong opposition against the Nazis which ultimately led to his assassination by the Nazis …

[@fortunatomartino8549]

Kierkegaard foreshadowed Banhoffer

[@SilverDoveTx]

Here is proof that the baptism of Jesus is so needed...... Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.... Acts 19:2-5 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. ❤

[@robertclark2240]

While I lament Bonhoeffer’s demise sans elaboration, I am disappointed with this explanation. I thought some of your contextual explanations were valid and I learned a bit. Less impressive was your assumption that modern Christians are lingering to “same old beliefs” about scriptural principles, while contrasting that to the more presumably more valid “same old” Enlightenment assumptions. This is classic ad hominem. I’m stunner at the use of the term “a priori” as a posture when anyone who’s read Kant knows it’s an epistemology. Your efforts are respected, but I see you as a preacher…hardly a teacher

[@Magnulus76]

Nice to see another Lutheran discussing Bonhoeffer's prophetic works. They deserve more serious treatment. I would suggest that Christ not being an object of religion but part of the world means something like encountering Christ in both the gathered Christian community, but also in the neighbor, from a place of genuine alterity, just as God in Christ has been pushed out of the world and onto the Cross. This really seems to be the direction that liberationist theologies have headed, for instance. Traditional religion has kept God-consciousness (to borrow Schleiermacher's term) inside a glass box up on an altar, compartmentalized and isolated, and I think that is what Bonhoeffer is critiquing here, among other things. Homage is paid to this older vision of divinity once in a while, especially during emergencies, rites of passage, etc. (or to prey on the weak, as you said), but it doesn't genuinely shape our ordinary lives, to actually make us stronger people, lest it upend the inbuilt sense of Erastianism that all magisterial reformers inherited, or that Constantine himself imposed on his people. I still see this Erastianism in some conservative Lutheran churches, even in the ELCA- the reflexive fear of chaos and idolatry of authority baked into the religion. Also perhaps it could be understood in a cosmic sense, in the sense that Pierre Teilhard de Chardin understood Christ, as the divine Word present in all things and holding them together, leading to a worship of God through the creation rather than apart from it or above it, as in classical theism (the unmoved mover).

[@metapolitikgedanken612]

Well, any humane understanding will ultimately fail. Christ has to be understood from God, not from Man.

[@coreolis7]

FYI my friend you are probably misusing the French derived term “ in lieu of..:” perhaps you mean something like, “ in view of” or “ with respect to” or “ in light of” altho the latter implies being enlightened by knowledge. The French word LIEU means place or position as in “ lieutenant” it does not mean the way you are using it at 2 minutes here.

[@alfmaxey6090]

I'm thankful for the Orthodox Church that has survived from the time of Christ to now !☦️

[@joep1265]

3 minutes in and this guy is bugging me. Science was and is part of chrristianity. Most of the science early in history was founded by catholic scholars.

[@laurabennett9865]

I really don't think it's necessary to point out denominations as if anyone has any right to boast. We are all Gods children and unity is what Jesus prayed before his death. So we serve Him, not man. I Corinthians 1:10-13

[@JesusLovesBest]

I concluded the same thing, Eric M. is missing the boat on Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Thanks for this!

[@metapolitikgedanken612]

Most 'Christians' do. They don't see that Bonhoeffer was an Antichrist.

[@tonyforeman9502]

Do you perhaps imagine that Bonhoeffer would have supported gay marriage?

[@1otterclan]

Yes

[@MarkDouglass-dt9ky]

He would have opposed gay "marriage ", anyone who says otherwise has never read him.

[@tdanielskiss]

Don't read Eric Metaxas, no rather not listen to you and your smooth tongue.

[@johnbeale4164]

Interesting that at the end you say Bonehoffer didn't know what this means and either do you. If you don't know what something means you can't adhere to it. It becomes every man doing what is right in his own eyes. I prefer following Scripture. All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. II Timothy 3:16

[@AntAnt-mr7lc]

2 timothy 2:4

[@eliewhelms3275]

Wisdom of the gods I don't believe in god; but I believe in the myth of the gods, and I enjoy religion. I don't believe in divine men; but I believe in heroines and great men; and I believe in honoring them. I don't have much belief in faith; and I don't have much faith in belief, either; but I do give credence to the wisdom of the people's gods. From a secular view, the Hebrew Bible is a major icon of the Western Culture, as great or greater than Homer, Virgil or Shakespeare. There are no greater myths (stories) than the Creation stories, Adam and Eve, the Flood and the Ten Commandments, Job, Jonah, Ecleasiastes, Song of Songs, et cetera. Where is there hope without god? Where do I get my morality? To whom do I bend a knee? We pray, we davon, like we sing and dance. With joy, sorrow, and gratitude. With love and hope for the good of mankind. ## ## ## After the divine Dionysus, Achilles, Romulus, and Ceasar Augustus, all born of virgins, all sons of gods, all rose up to heaven, no one has ever again become Divine. All successors are surely copies and fakes. The first written evidence of a deiti were recorded in Egypt from the Early Dynastic Period (cerca 3,100 - 2,686 BCE), long before the Christian era. The first historical record of a crucifixion was around 519 BCE, by the Persians. (Heradotus).

[@DannyLowenberg]

Good introduction.

[@clovek456]

I am inpressed..it has been helpul to me...thanks! I didn't however get wherher religionionless christianity is better than its opposite....I personally don't see any reason to get rid of religion..the garment is good...we dont want to be naked do we? :)

[@goodmorning6827]

The only place god exists is in the human imagination, and the human imagination is complex and powerful.

[@williambranch4283]

Jesus is manifest in Christians. Mohammad is manifest in Muslims. Moses is manifest in Jews. But G-d is manifest in everything and in everyone.

[@stagehand9002]

Thou Shall Not Kill................God said that

[@Romeolmoore55]

It's actually "Not murder" There's a difference.

[@garysweeten5196]

It very gracious.

[@shirleygooch9525]

You don't really seem to have the love of God. You insult the modern evangelical churches that have spread the word to so many. And please you have so much hate.

[@larry3591]

God is almost dead

[@williambranch4283]

Humanity died centuries ago.

[@MarkDouglass-dt9ky]

If you know English there is one way to go from being a completely secular person to a completely Christian person: Read the King James Bible for one hour every day for 3 years. Guaranteed you'll become religious and Christian.