Bonsai, YouTube and Credibility

[@TheBonsaiZone]

I think the only measure of credibility is progression. It doesn't matter if it is a small seedling or a mature tree, if the plant is progressing each year towards a goal, then the person is doing something right. We can learn from every KZbin channel, no matter if big or small. Every person is a teacher in some way. I watch many new channels and see things that maybe aren't the best, but I know that person will learn from their mistakes, just like we all do. I don't think KZbin channels can be separated into credible or non credible categories, in the end it's a mix of entertainment, videography and learning, you find what you like!

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Great comment Nigel and very valid points. 🙏

[@piotrdziadczyk8598]

Hello ​ Paul Geddert pointed out a very important issue. The Internet is everywhere and is universally the same, but the climate and weather are not. I live in eastern Poland. Here, planting and transplanting trees in the fall is a common gardening practice. It is a better method than transplanting in the spring. Our springs are often very hot and very dry, which is not good for trees in the ground, but also creates problems for bonsai. In many matters, nature makes decisions for us. Every few years in winter, the temperature here drops to 30 degrees below zero. So any channel about bonsai run in Greece, Italy, France, California, Japan, or even the Netherlands and the United Kingdom will be unreliable in many ways and aspects. We have to start with the fact that the place where we live will have a decisive influence on which species have a chance of surviving the winter in pots. I don't really use ceramic pots, because even those that are advertised as frost-resistant crack during the Polish winter. For the same reason, I use larger pots than Japanese tradition suggests. Are my trees less valuable because of this? Yes, for sure. But does this make my approach to bonsai as a hobby less credible and less sincere? Peter

[@XaviersBonsaiRetreat]

Hmmm - not sure how to respond on this one Jason. I understand your motivation, I think, because this is what we discussed when I visited and interviewed you about different concerns on KZbin. Ultimately, I think any 'non-professional' video is about 'the journey'. I watch many channels becasue they Entertain me - not instruct me. If you tried to judge my credibility by pots then I am currently in the bargain basement section of KZbin. My wife said I had an abominable dress sense. Same applies to picking pots - I know the theory but I struggle to apply it properly. And don't event talk to me about my Juniper progressions I have loads of 'below standard' trees that I am trying to develop. In the early years that is all I had, APART from a few finished Bonsai that i had purchased and had no part in developing. It is only now, after 20 years that many of those 'sticks in pots' are starting to evidence the struggle they have faced in my hands. Ultimately, I'm not sure what to take from this video or who indeed it is directed towards in the KZbin world? This is not meant to be a negative comment Jason because we discussed this in detail last week - i really do need to get my video uploaded before it becomes 'old news'. I would love to see a follow up on this where you discuss how we can apply the 'credibility' score appropariately so as to ensure we do not watch the wrong videos? Is that what you are getting at? It shoud definitely garner some debate though :)

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

I’ve seen your trees and setup, and don’t see you as lacking credibility or experience. 👍 My concern is both about my own credibility, and that of some KZbinrs with almost no experience, offering questionable advice, being treated as bonsai masters by people who don’t know any better. KZbin can be smoke and mirrors.

[@XaviersBonsaiRetreat]

@TheBonsaiGarden I know it wasn't directed at me Jason. But I think I prefer not to suggest viewers need help in what to watch 😁

[@Bearded_Bonsai]

You're dead right @XaviersBonsaiRetreat not all channels are out to promote themselves as more than what they are. I think a lot of us just want to document our own journeys, our learnings and hopefully build a bit of a community around that where we can have a yarn to people about our trees.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

It is an admittedly intentionally provocative video, seeking to generate debate and interactions, nothing more.

[@dkstott29]

​@XaviersBonsaiRetreat love your channel, i focus on tropicals and succulents bonsai, but still learn tips from you...Some bonsai channels are great entertainment and educational...I tend to gravitate to the hobbyist level channels with "sticks in pots" or naturalist trees. The professional level channels with artistically unnatural shaped tree's don't typically last long on my subscription list.

[@gaiabonsai]

"Not all of us can do great things. But we can do small things with great love." 💚

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

That’s a great take - I really like that 🙏

[@ItsLifeWithBryan]

I get where this is coming from but it feels like gate-keeping to me.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

You are as entitled to your opinion as the next person.

[@dkstott29]

My humble thought is that there's several levels to KZbin bonsai channels. At the top are the educational ones and the entertainment ones. Mix in the "snobs" who refuse to recognize tropical and succulents as bonsai OR frown on non-traditional trees or supposed incorrect colored pots. There's a lot of hobbyist channels that I enjoy seeing progress of their trees, even if some are "sticks in a pot". My focus is on tropicals and succulents, but I still learn tips from videos of other trees.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

That’s an interesting take. 👍

[@piotrdziadczyk8598]

Hello ​ Paul Geddert pointed out a very important issue. The Internet is everywhere and is universally the same, but the climate and weather are not. I live in eastern Poland. Here, planting and transplanting trees in the fall is a common gardening practice. It is a better method than transplanting in the spring. Our springs are often very hot and very dry, which is not good for trees in the ground, but also creates problems for bonsai. In many matters, nature makes decisions for us. Every few years in winter, the temperature here drops to 30 degrees below zero. So any channel about bonsai run in Greece, Italy, France, California, Japan, or even the Netherlands and the United Kingdom will be unreliable in many ways and aspects. We have to start with the fact that the place where we live will have a decisive influence on which species have a chance of surviving the winter in pots. I don't really use ceramic pots, because even those that are advertised as frost-resistant crack during the Polish winter. For the same reason, I use larger pots than Japanese tradition suggests. Are my trees less valuable because of this? Yes, for sure. But does this make my approach to bonsai as a hobby less credible and less sincere? Peter

[@Steves_Backyard_Bonsai]

Interesting take Jason. I totally get the imposter syndrome aspect of sharing my bonsai journey. My stated intent from the introduction of my channel was to apply what I’ve seen others do, and if they were successful, and I was subsequently successful, then sharing that experience might be helpful to others. My failures are an open book as well, and often come with a post mortem discussion. Certainly, the comments I receive reflect that I am creating content for the viewers of my channel that they appreciate. Conversely, I also get cautions from viewers that their own experiences sometimes contradict mine. I applaud that because it helps me as well. Pots, well, my economic situation is likely more closely aligned with the majority of my viewers than not. I’m sure the frugality I espouse resonates with those that are put off by bonsai related expenses. As far as offending, you need not worry. All of this has crossed my mind as well. Bravo for taking it on.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Thanks Steve, I really appreciate your remarks. I do have a large collection of pots, but mostly they were relatively expensive, from local potters at very reasonable prices, and acquired over a long period of time. Still many trees in baskets or trays… 🙏

[@Rojin_Bonsai_Studio]

One thing I discovered early on in KZbin is that subscriber count does not necessarily indicate knowledgeable content; rather, it often reflects well-produced content. we should all be aware by now, I frequently engage in questionable activities in my videos because I do not adhere to the "beginners" rule book. Pots are a matter of personal preference, and I favor the simpler ones because a well-crafted pot can easily overshadow the tree, defeating the primary purpose. You may judge me based on my collection, but that would be misleading, as my current collection is vastly different from my first collection of trees. 😂 Great video that's well produced as always, Jason. 👍 😉

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Thanks Callan. You have a great collection of trees, as is apparent to anyone who checks out your great videos. 👍

[@Rojin_Bonsai_Studio]

@TheBonsaiGarden Thank you, Jason. I put everything into those trees. 🙃 And I just read my comment back to myself and hope no offense was taken. I feel your knowledge of caring for little trees is well-documented and is a great channel for beginners to get a good grasp on things.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Cheers Callan. Mutual appreciation society 🙏😊😂

[@Bearded_Bonsai]

I do agree with what you've said, but I think it's also up to us to be objective when we view any source of information on the internet and decide for ourselves how much value we put on what is being shown to us. Not always easy I know. I too am one of the many who have a channel showcasing my trees, however it has always been, and always will be, a document of what I've done, not in any way instructional or telling anyone "how to". People are free to take what they want from the videos, but the premise was always to lay down a record of my trees journeys that I could look back on in years to come, and besides, I enjoy watching videos that are just people in their back yards, working on their trees. Keep up the good work 👍

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

That’s a fair point and people are welcome to view whatever content they like, for a whole host of different reasons. Good luck with your channel 👍

[@Bearded_Bonsai]

@@TheBonsaiGarden thank you. It is a problem that just goes hand in hand with the internet I think, any information we dig up has varying levels of relevancy and accuracy, and most of the time it's not evident which end of the spectrum you're digging in 🙃 However the points you raise are valid and it doesn't hurt to raise them occasionally to at least get people thinking about what they're absorbing.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

The video was intentionally provocative, to get some debate and discussion. Nobody should feel upset or offended by it - every viewpoint is valid and welcome 🙏

[@raymondbirds2392]

Lovely job

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Thank you. 🙏

[@raymondbirds2392]

@TheBonsaiGarden really enjoy your videos. Thanks

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

@raymondbirds2392 thanks Raymond, I appreciate your support 🙏

[@KennetDeBondt]

A good tree and pot collection is often a question of finance...

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Yes of course. But it is also possible to build up over years.

[@KennetDeBondt]

Tell me about it... been doing this for 25 years and I still have no decent pots. Paying a house, 2 kids in university. I sold my best trees... @@TheBonsaiGarden

[@OjaiBonsai]

We can learn from every person even non professionals. I actually like to think out of the box. Bonsai is an ART and with that there should be no rules. I agree with you but am entertained by every channel. I love to give LIKES to the smallest channels because they are doing it. Bonsai is a life long journey. Best wishes to everyone

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

You make a number of great points. This video was intentionally provocative to generate debate and discussions. 🙏

[@BonsaiNorthwest]

Jason, let me start with saying that I enjoy your channel. First, where I'm coming from: I'm a long time (a few years) bonsai KZbin consumer and new (May 2024) bonsai KZbin producer. After I got a few hundred subscribers, I felt for the first time "imposter syndrome", concerned that I was presenting myself as an expert, which I'm not. A couple thoughts: 1. In my experience consuming bonsai content on KZbin, I haven't come across many or any "small folks" (like me) who are presenting themselves as experts. Most, or even all, are honest about their experience/qualifications. So I don't see a problem of there being a proliferation of bonsai nonexperts spreading misinformation; maybe my perception comes from being accustomed to wading through correct and incorrect info on the internet in general - misinformation is everywhere. 2. Totally agree that a person's qualifications can be seen in the quality of their trees. If a person has good trees, I'm more inclined to watch them and view them as a expert. That being said, I love sticks in pots and all sorts of bonsai channels, including the "small" folks like me who are only a few years into the hobby and KZbin. I think small channels and folks who have little experience still have valuable information to contribute.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Thanks for your feedback and adding to this discussion. 🙏

[@PBwarfare]

Watch a lot of your videos but this to me looks like you’re blowing your own trumpet a bit

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Sorry if that is your perception. If someone attacks you, would you not put up a defence?

[@paulgeddert6125]

I see your point a little. The high quality trees filmed in the video have generally featured quite often in older videos, and been referenced as purchased from... There's a difference between being able to buy high quality / finished trees, and then care for them, and in creating them yourself. The video implies that the quality of a person's trees reflects their level of expertise / credibility. When clearly money can purchase short cuts.

[@NHoffman]

I appreciated this video. I started my bonsai journey a little over a year ago. I relied on KZbin for a lot of early advice and definitely had mixed results based on what I followed. I accelerated my journey by joining my local club and reading a lot of books as well. I see that your content is always well researched and thoughtful. And you also share in the comments section. I will always check out your videos when I see a new one is posted. You make things very accessible, but you also point out that there is always more to learn.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Thanks for your kind comments.

[@BonsaiCornwall]

Some very great points here Jason 🙏🏼🙌🏼

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Thanks Jonas. Mostly it has just p!ssed people off 😂🤗

[@BonsaiCornwall]

@@TheBonsaiGardenthe algorithm will favour you nonetheless 😉🙏🏼

[@PumpkinBecki]

This is definitely a thought provoking video Jason, and I take no offense from anything you've said here :) With my videos, I'm often quick to point out that I'm just an enthusiastic amateur, it's about my journey, overcoming the fear of experimenting, and I'll show failures along with success. I don't think anyone watches my Bonsai content to learn "how to" :D I think its also important to remember that budget plays a big part with Bonsai, not everyone can afford artist made pots or super caliber trees, but maybe they can afford a fun piece of nursery stock to practice and hone techniques on, and that is just as "valuable" in terms of learning the impact of your actions, as seeing a bonsai at the peak of development with no sense of how it got there. I watch a variety of Bonsai channels, subscribe to the ones I find valuable and weed out the ones I don't :) Lots of love Becki xx

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Thanks for your valuable and perfectly valid comments Becki. I’ve been fortunate to be able to accumulate some nice pots from British potters over a number of years and at very fair prices. Loving your channel and appreciate your approach.

[@wendigeorge9477]

I really enjoy watching bonsai videos of all varieties, but I've noticed that most are from regions that are the complete opposite of where I live. I am in central Texas, USA, which is mostly dry and very hot, so I tend to look for those who produce videos in this kind of environment. They are hard to find! I work at a nursery that will throw away plants they know they can't sell, so I take them and rehabilitate them and try to turn them into bonsai. I've mostly failed at this as the material I am using mostly isn't compatible but I continue to try.Thank you for this video, from your new subscriber.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Thanks for your remarks 🙏

[@NoQuarter01]

@@wendigeorge9477 I live in central Texas too, where it’s very hot. But I love Japanese maples! I keep buying them against people’s advice…. But they seem to be doing very well as long as I give them a bit of shade. Tropicals do great here.

[@GrowingBonsai]

Interesting position to take. It makes me wonder where the source of your thoughts lay, and whether you have specific channels in mind. I know some channels in the US which I do not really like because of misinformation being shared which is dangerous for beginners. Yet... I personally watch different channels for different reasons. I like how Nigel has been laying the foundation for bonsai videos on youtube. I love how my friends at BonsaiEmpire are able to produce very professional content with star bonsai artists. I love how Adam is pushing the envelop when it comes to engaging content, with youthfull enthusiasm and.excellent technical skills. None of these channels I watch to grow my knowledge base. For this I have local experts that I work with directly. I think there are many reasons to watch a channel. Personally, I hope people respect my videos for the background knowledge and long-term explain-do-show-result timelapses (Anyone reading this comment, do drop by and subscribe, lol!). I know I will never be as engaging as Adam. I do not bring the experience and likeablility of Peter. And cannot explain things like done on blue sky. I would say, there is plenty of space for all channels, and not all need to be credible from expertise level. Many of them are just great content. A sadly passed away bonsai artist come to mind, who was a rising YT star, without loads of experience yet people were inspired, which is sometimes the main thing for people who have no idea where to begin. It is easy making things appear complex. It is a skill to reduce complex things to the main easy components..

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Thanks for your great comment Jelle. There is some irony in this video - talking about bonsai credibility, whilst also being a little performative for KZbin purposes. Some people have agreed, some have been upset by it, others have expressed differing opinions. This was really intended to make people think and maybe start a discussion. I’m not really suggesting who should watch whichever channels - that’s entirely down to personal preference. 🤗

[@radrickdavis]

Jason, your trees amazing. Among the top tier of hobbyists showing their trees online. Have you ever attempted to display your trees at a show?

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

I doubt they are of sufficient quality for anything more than the local club show. At the moment.

[@maryoverton7245]

A healthy topic. A lot of content on u tube is baloney, I think like you said they have a phone and give it a go. I watched something this afternoon and thought to myself it will not be alive in 3 weeks.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

🙏

[@Bonsai_Noob]

Interestingly one of my absolute favorite channels, yamasibon kiwa provides no direct information. Your channel provides great info and great production. There are other channels out there, where you and I may disagree with the approach, techniques, information but it is all about the context. Some people just want to share their work, not from an expert point of view but from a learner's. I created my little logo, put it on KZbin, as a Bonsai noob. Problem is, I'm a crap at tech and documenting my work, but yeah id love to create a channel to document how some of my sticks in pots change over time. It takes a lot of effort to do something good, let alone something of the quality you produce, or the absolute pinnacle of this thing which is/was bonsai releaf! But yeah... Each to their own

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Thanks Daniel. And the stuff Bonsai Releaf does is art of the highest order. 👍

[@timcastle1844]

More than half a century ago I began my Bonsai hobby. Back then there was very little by way of information, only a couple of books in English and even fewer "experts"; come to mention it there were actually very few Bonsai worthy of being called such. Since the advent of the internet the information available has grown enormously, books on the subject can be found in all the bookshops that are left and "Experts" are in their thousands and have their own channels, "Bonsai Nurseries" etc. Personally I no longer remain a part of the "Bonsai Community" and keep my hobby where it belongs, at home with occasional forays into helping people resurrect their Bonsai from near death after following these 'experts' advice.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Thanks for your insight Tim. I sometimes wonder if the answer is to shut myself off and just enjoy my trees as a private hobby, KZbin be damned.

[@paulgeddert6125]

This can be true, you will find gems in people's garden. Who just know what they're doing, but don't need to share it. That being said, I learned more from watching Peter Chan early on than I ever would have through experimenting or reading books (I still did both those things), and waiting years to see the outcome of my early work on trees. KZbin can help you begin on a strong path.

[@timcastle1844]

@@paulgeddert6125 Each person must choose their own path and who they choose to learn from. The point being made in the post concerned those setting themselves up as "experts" when very few are actually that. Yes I watch and learn still from Peter Chan, Milton Chan and Bonsai Mirai but many others are people who have bought their Bonsai from elsewhere, watched a video or two and suddenly know all there is to know. Personal opinion, is all.

[@timcastle1844]

@@TheBonsaiGarden Take no notice of me. I've become a grumpy, old git with far less tolerance than I once had.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

@@timcastle1844happens to us all. I think during Covid I finally lost my tolerance for other people 😂😂😂

[@thebonsaiprojectkernow]

Great video jason, I watch a lot of bonsai youtubers. I still havent the foggiest what im doing I understand there is always tons of different methods on growing/training trees but i think youve just got to find what works for you 😁 My trees are not really youtube worthy but i dont care 🤣 bring on the hate 💪💪

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Thanks Dan, and keep doing what you love 🙏❤️

[@mattwall3267]

Tbh I don’t think it’s that deep of an issue, if someone’s starting out in bonsai then it’s highly likely they’ll have cheap material and imo the best way to learn is to make mistakes. If they’re genuinely inquisitive and engaged in the hobby then people will learn which are the best channels to watch and which techniques work and don’t work. I wouldn’t worry yourself over the idea of credibility, maybe it’s just me but I think most people just watch bonsai videos as something to put on in the background rather than anything particularly serious 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Ha ha good point 👍

[@markjagger7139]

I value your information and techniques highly, your trees as I’ve said before are stunning and testament to your skills, I do tend to stick channels from the uk as I find I can relate to the weather and conditions more readily ( taking into account local microclimates), there are a few channels where as you say the people have only small whips in pots and I do tend to move on from these channels rather quickly as the offers me personally no advice to help me grow my own knowledge.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Not intending to belittle anyone’s efforts of personal bonsai journey. Like you, I need to be able to gain something from the videos to make it worth my time. Whether that be techniques, horticulture or simply inspiration. 🙏

[@danielaconstantin5619]

Thank you :) 🤩

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

I appreciate that 🙏

[@jonathanaristone2468]

Because each individual has their own artistic taste they automatically gravitate to channels and personalities they like. This separates them from those that do not fit their style. In the end the proof is in the pudding and we all move on from there.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

I like your take on this Jonathan. I’m afraid I was being intentionally provocative in this video to stir up a bit of a reaction 🤗😊

[@pauletheridge7594]

Hi Jason I am so glad you have put this subject out as I am a newbie to Bonsai just around a year ago you and a select few others give sound good advice like you said this reflects in your trees it is a massive learning experience for myself but a much enjoyable one another thing I would add I did a few months ago join a Bonsai society the south staffs bonsai society I can not speak highly enough the support and help I have had keep up the fantastic advice and work you provide it to me very much appreciated ❤

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Thank you Paul 🙏

[@Darkfire1300]

Well thought out and presented, as usual. I suppose it depends on what one is using the information for in sorting through various channels. I "tune in" for various reasons: curiosity about someone else's journey, progress on certain trees, approaches to care and monthly tasks and yes - entertainment. Watching what was a limited number of channels helped me through the dark months of cancer recovery. Discretion is always advisable in this world of wildly variable information. It is probably a good idea to sort through my own motivations for watching various KZbin channels....sometimes it can be a distraction that let's me avoid the real work of living! Even bonsai channels.😮

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Thanks Susan. In truth this was intended to be a somewhat provocative video to generate a bit of debate. All views and opinions welcomed 🤗🙏

[@Darkfire1300]

Personally, I think its a good idea once in a while to "stir up the pond" to see what floats to the surface.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

😂😂😂

[@virolfestrellado9425]

I've seen some of your videos, and they're pretty informative. I agree hundred percent to this video and also at the end of the day the hobbyist/enthusiast's own contentment and joy are the most important. The reason why we picked up this love for Bonsai journey in the first place. ❤

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Great comment and really valid point.

[@suer666]

No offensive content at all. Ive noticed in some channels exactly what you are saying. Well done for saying what I have been thinking 👏

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Thank you Sue. I know a lot of differing views have been expressed, some not so complimentary. 🙏

[@sakekampstra8727]

❤❤❤

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

🙏🙏🙏

[@airford13]

another great vid Jason!

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

🙏

[@piotrdziadczyk8598]

Hello If someone claims that bonsai is not only gardening but also art, then such a person should not forget that 'De gustibus non disputandum est'. The art of bonsai in Europe and North America has departed from the traditional aesthetics created in China and Japan. Beauty is not a universal and unchanging value. The path to mastery is as important as its goal.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Thank you for your comment 👍

[@Matt6644]

It would be nice if more Bonsai TY Channels, no matter how credible, made videos showcasing their failed trees and start a discussion on them so that someone might be able to prevent such a loss themselves. While it is certainly nice to show how to do things in a positive way, when we fail, and understand why, we learn the most.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

I have exactly such a video. When we fail, and we all do, then it becomes a question of what can we learn from the experience, in order to do better next time… kzbin.info/www/bejne/ena2mmaKqZucmNUsi=h9y8rcTn_KwrhmzF

[@sylviahardy4568]

As a newbie, I accept that I have, and enjoy, trees in pots. I dont pretend they're bonsai, and I wouldn't follow anyone with trees such as mine online. Happy to follow you though 😊

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Thanks for sharing! We all started at this point, then the obsession took hold. 🤗

[@Chillfam]

If you didn't go to Japan to study the art of bonsai who really are you? Did you graduate from youtube University and became an expert and now you have a Channel? I love all the channels. The only difference I see is the video/audio quality and consistency. Pots and trees are not a big deal to me it's their journey of keeping it alive and healthy. Expensive pots are an option but not required that's only when you want showcase your most loved bonsai.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Great points 👍

[@deineath]

Interesting take. Still not sure what triggered this; a lot here to agree or disagree. A few years ago someone brought a tall 5-inch thick Japanese Maple cutting to our Bonsai club meeting, concerned about why it hasn't rooted or pushed out new leaves. After a long discussion with other members, he pulled out a video of a well known KZbin Channel where the "artist" makes a forest with gigantic JM cuttings that were cut from a mature tree, claiming there will root and make a beautiful forest with years of headstart. So, that's that about some "experts". And then, there are people including myself, like to see random stuff just for sake of it; from developing a stick in a pot, or creating a twisted JBP in a tea cup, growing cuttings in cat litter, and so on.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

There are some great and entertaining channels out there, even beginners - my only issue is when they claim to be something they are not - and perhaps people may think the same of myself. I think this was a result of some recent discussions on credibility with others. Ironically it’s also somewhat performative and intentionally provocative to generate discussion and comment. Sadly KZbin bonsai is 50% bonsai and 50% playing the KZbin game. Or in some cases 90% KZbin…

[@motherlandbot6837]

I watch many different bonsai channels for entertainment and inspiration, particularly those that upload videos of bonsai shows around the world. For actual infotmation, there are just a few that I rely on, and Peter Chan's Heron's Bonsai channel tops my list. I was fortunate to spend parts of my childhood and adolescence in Japan, Singapore, and Taiwan (I'm from the US) and appreciate the often very different bonsai trends in each. In Singapore and Taiwan, bonsai became a widely popular hobby relatively recently, as their standards of living developed during the early 1960s onwards, even though bonsai originated in China. Today out of necessity, Singaporean bonsaists focus on tropical plants, while Taiwan enthusiasts use both more "traditional" subjects and increasingly, their endemic subtropical Pinus morrisonicola, which I prefer as a bonsai subject to Japan's P. thunbergii and P. densiflora. Bonsai ultimately draws its' inspiration from nature, and the forms that wild trees and shrubs assume in often very different environments. Moreover, many temperate East Asian trees and shrubs have a beautiful tiered branch structure that is rare or non existent among those in other parts of the world, and the autumn foliage colors of many temperate trees and shrubs in East Asia and the NE US have nearly no native equivalents in most of Europe and the Western US.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

This was great. Thanks for sharing these insights 🙏

[@maanjezus8622]

I only watch a handful of bonsai channels. Most of other bonsai channels lack the credibility that you're talking of. I simply don't care for strange looking artsy fartsy bonsai or wabi sabi. I'm a natural stylist when it comes to bonsai, so you won's see me doing semi cascade maples etc.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

We all appreciate a different aesthetic when it comes to art. 🙏

[@maanjezus8622]

@@TheBonsaiGarden , true. But I most say honestly; you are the only one so far that goes beyond the art form and talks about trees and how they work. No other bonsai channel talks about this matter.

[@Darkfire1300]

You might check out Blue Sky Bonsai. Like Jason, among others you might have not yet viewed, Dave illustrates and discusses the principles of plant biology. Lots of wonderful things await you on your journey! Stay open yo the possibilities!

[@paulgeddert6125]

​@@maanjezus8622Blue Sky Bonsai does 👍

[@GrowingBonsai]

@@maanjezus8622 I think you have a wealth of channels to discover that do in fact explain what happens in the plant

[@luigiluigi2098]

I enjoyed this. And you are probably right Jason but everyone can see how professional and credible you are even if you had no mature trees. You speak with knowledgeable authority and modestly admit when you're not sure. And all your video work is finished to such a high standard. So why wouldn't you trees be too. Xavier's channel you interviewed recently is the opposite, he's more slapstick and likes to laugh at himself even though he's clearly very skilled too. I however enjoy so many channels from those I identify with who are fairly new (like me) with a mix of seedlings, sticks in pots and a few mature trees offering advice based on what they've experienced. Through to the giants like Dan Barton (lovely chap)...who also offer a mix of new advice through to advanced techniques I'd never dreamed off. I think providing someone isn't giving out misinformation deliberately then it isn't an issue and having this diverse community is only a good thing

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Thanks for this detailed and considered response. You make some great points.

[@stuartbaines2843]

Bonsai is More than tree growing but Bonsai take Time. KZbin has Many videos mostly showing large trees well formed. This Bias means new viewers Only see one side of the story. Thankfully there are a few people showing a fully picture👍

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Many many thanks

[@Baru_089]

It is a valid point but I am not sure whether it is on point. Videography and Editing can be de deceiving and to look through that is important. The health of the trees is pretty valid in my eyes. But in my honest opinion, the only way to know how credible a content creator is, is by spending time educating yourself. I think some of your points fall a bit short. An analogy: There are a lot of fitness-influencers out there. Judging their quality of content by their sixpacks or biceps is falling short in the same way as judging a bonsai-enthusiast by the trees in their background. I doubt that the qualitiy of the bonsais and pots is the best indicator for the amount of knowledge and proficiency of teaching someone has. First, as an artform, there might be different tastes (but still probably objective parameters to judge from). But second, different people enjoy different aspects of bonsai: Some people might enjoy developing sticks to trees more than refining older trees and therefore have more trees in development than in refinement (that applies to me. I have about 30 "trees"; only 2 of them in a bonsai pot, because I like the propagation and holticultural part a little bit more than working on refined pieces - that being said, I wouldn't put videos out or consider myself anything much beyond a beginner). Then you also never know the time component of what you see in the videos: some people might simply have the money to buy high quality material but may not know how to maintain it. For me, it was hard finding trustful people but also and especially integrating that knowledge into my climate and the stage of development for my trees and it only worked through educating myself.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Thanks for your response. The purpose of the video was to raise questions and generate debate. Judging by the lengthy comments it has succeeded on that score. You make some very valid points on which I completely agree. Best of luck with your own bonsai journey.

[@Baru_089]

@@TheBonsaiGarden yes, very comprehensible reason behind this video. And I appreciate not only the video but also the comment section of this one :)

[@antiduckable]

This video seems a bit ambiguous, I'm not sure how the topic would upset anyone though. Personally, even if I saw a KZbinr with a Chinese Elm that he'd (or she'd) taken care of for years (supposedly), but it still looked like a fresh Tescosai, I still use the same method that I used at university - if multiple sources are saying the same thing as Super Tescosaiman (or woman), then information that they're giving can be considered credible, regardless of their Tescosai looking Chinese Elm. I love differing ways of doing essentially the same things, I think that's part of Bonsai. I don't think I've ever actually seen outright wrong advice to be honest though. I really enjoy the mix of theory and practice from you and I think you're credible without me really needing to verify the information that you're giving... at the same time, I'm always a bit skeptical of some of those huge channels that have done an apprenticeship in Japan and the really 'good stuff' is hidden behind a pay wall... you never hear them saying that the price of a 3 year apprenticeship under a Japanese bonsai master is basically the price of a house either.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Thanks for your comment. I’m guilty of trying to stir things up a bit with this video 🤗😊 I also wonder when people call advice “dangerous”, like somebody might lose and eye or a limb, or a family member. At the most a tree might die. And if that is a £7000 tree, shame on them for not doing their own research…

[@antiduckable]

​@@TheBonsaiGardenExactly! It's the individuals job to vet their information. If someone manages to kill their prized £20000 Beni Chidori Maple and gouges out their eye at the same time because of information from KZbin... that's on them.

[@stevemorgan9687]

I kinda like xavs approach ie it works well for me in my garden maybe you could use it well in yours. I have hedges either side of my garden and it keeps everything damp so alot of the techniques used by others would take me years for the same effect. I think as a viewer i have grown to accept these guys get alot better growth than me and i could listen to the team that brought the emperor's first penjing but in my garden it aint happening.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

I really struggle with junipers - they simply don’t put on ANY growth in my garden. I’ve learned to try other stuff - in particular Japanese maples tend to thrive. Over time we learn what works in our own micro climates.

[@stevemorgan9687]

​@@TheBonsaiGardennow juniper against my wall out the front seems quite happy but I still wouldn't be brave enough to do what I see on half the channels

[@paulgeddert6125]

Horses for courses with trees. Anyone who is affluent can buy expensive and well refined trees, but they may have little ability, or horticultural skill when it comes to bonsai or even plants / trees in general. Someone growing a range of trees from seed, cuttings, layers, collecting, nursery stock, and a few purchased refined trees most likely will have a significant level of horticultural skill. Bonsai is an art form also, some 'have it' and have a skill for creating. Some struggle. I view all 'back garden' KZbinrs as similar to me, which is why I enjoy them more. Passionate amateurs, some are highly skilled and knowledgeable, some less so, and I gravitate to those I enjoy more. If I want 'expert' advice I can watch 'professional' bonsai creators. But I find I cannot identify with them as well, so rarely watch them. I think the 'pots' discussion is very subjective. I have some fantastic trees, but I keep them in the ground, or in big air pots now in the main. While it's nice to have trees in ceramic pots I've learned you'll lose some if the winter is harsh, and it's just not as healthy for the trees (of course some do go in pots). You can have a high skill level, turn out some great trees, but choose to let them stay vigorous in generous pots, and just occasionally put them in small ceramic pots. With the cost of living having got so difficult in the last 2 years or so I think passing judgement on someone's ability based on the quality of pot(s) they can buy is not entirely fair on many people. While I have an eye for design, and how to complement a tree with a well suited pot, I like many others just cannot afford a lineup of high quality pots for my trees (1 or two is a struggle 😂). Thought provoking video, I think it'll do well for you.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Thanks Paul, some great points made here. 🙏

[@jackieduckworth1007]

Lots of good points. It’s all very well people talking about ‘journeys’, but I want channels with reliable information that will lead me to improve my trees! There are art or dog training videos I could make and happily put on KZbin because I really understand those topics well - but not bonsai, despite growing little trees in pots for umpteen years. I’m fairly sound on the horticulture, but I still have so much to learn about styling. I spent some time watching a channel that seemed interesting, but then I worked out that the apparently authoritative presenter had only been creating bonsai for 18 months. Sorry, that’s just not good enough.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Thanks for your comment Jackie. I still have a lot to learn myself, particularly with pines.

[@houghtonbonsai]

🤷🤷🤷

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

😂

[@w3bb0]

Good video Jason yet quite controversial. I'm not sure I would agree with all of your comments and make particular reference to the one about the persons tree collection determining their knowledge. Have to disagree there. Many people don't have £££'s to spend on trees and therefore inevitably start off in this hobby from either a gift (of poor common stock) or from nursery stock. Both being less than ideal but nonetheless great starter material to learn from. This trend could continue for many years with that person learning so much and while their tree collection may not be of show quality, it is not representative of their knowledge and understanding of the art. In contrast, a more affluent individual could go to say, Greenwoods, Herons or any another supplier of exquisite pieces, splash the cash and then sit in front of the camera waffling a load of nonsense but because they have extraordinary trees in the background that they might have managed to keep alive for 6 months somehow makes them an expert? I don't buy that I'm afraid. For clarity I sit somewhere in between both examples neither being a novice nor an 'expert', I have some nice trees nurtured over the 15+ years I've been involved in the hobby but nothing that would cost ££££'s and nothing originally costing over £100, yet I feel I could offer advice to some people new to the hobby. Not offended at all by what you've said and hope your channel continues to provoke debate. It would be a boring world if we all agreed on everything! Keep up the great work.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Thanks for your lengthy and considered response. I cannot argue with any of your points. In all honesty this was a somewhat intentionally provocative topic intended to generate discussion (and probably lots of disagreements 🤗 )

[@OnlineBonsaiSchool]

Facta non Verba

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

👍❤️

[@maryweber4176]

O.K. Jason, your video has been one BIG distraction for me tonight, from the political storm that will happen in the US in a few hours, and I thank you for that. (by the way, you have saved my trees on more than one occasion, getting back to me so quickly, a panicked newbie, even with the 6 hour time difference) And I especially appreciate the drawings of the science behind why and when to work on the tree.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Thank you Mary. The less said about the storm that is coming, the better… glad to have been a distraction, with this somewhat provocative video…

[@maryweber4176]

@@TheBonsaiGarden I wish I hadn't given up wine...................

[@percyacutt3110]

Content creators are their worst enemies if they are going to publish garbage or pass off recently purchased trees as their own then accept your punishment when found out and don’t cry. We as the public support you and hope to learn from you so we expect honesty from you and if you don’t know enough don’t become a creator

[@randysmith1723]

I’ve only been really doing Bonsai for a couple of years, but maybe Ive only become an expert at knowing how to calibrate what I expect to learn from someone’s KZbin channel. I have watched very informative and entertaining bonsai videos from people who I wouldn’t consider experts at all, but understand their sharing their experiences along with folks like myself. As long as THEY don’t present themselves as experts, I sort of feel like I’m along for the journey. Some clearly are experts, have the years of experience, and check all the boxes you mentioned. But even experts can get it wrong. I know of one many would consider an expert who said it’s impossible to overwater a bonsai. I know this is wrong because they made the statement without the caveat of saying that’s true assuming you’re using a properly draining bonsai soil. As you mentioned yourself about white pines, they can definitely get overwatered with constant downpours. My point is, as I mentioned in your last video, I consider you and Xavier experts because you’ve done it so long, have learned and shared so much, and I understand the logic in what you’re doing because you explain why. I watch many different experts and some non-experts based on several factors. Do they make it fun (Xavier A+), do they inspire a different perspective to see a deeper meaning in the art (You, A+). Of course we all watch Peter and Corin with their magnificent trees and nurseries. Nigel for his hair (just kidding) for his clip and grow/ no wiring, etc. The people I can’t watch, expert or not, are either too dry, or act like there is only one acceptable way. I would simply state that as the consumer, we’re pretty good at figuring out who has credibility and who doesn’t. I think the fact you care about it suggests you have credibility. You want to know you’re giving something of value in sharing you knowledge of the hobby, in order to grow and sustain it. I think it’s self evident. 👍

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Thanks for your long, and considered response. Yes, something/someone had triggered this but cannot say too much more.

[@The_Dood]

There are a few KZbin "personas". There's are renown commercial bonsai expert that put "nice" S bends to make it "look like convincing bonsai".. And he's written books. He shows his techniques on making credible looking bonsai to sell, I get it. Despite this, theres still lots to learn from him. Then there's the famous hobbyist that hates wires because it looks contrived like, ehem, his hair and fake voice talk. There's the super pretentious ,self important travelling bonsai experts that treat this hobby like a world important science, that talk about bonsai down to the molecular level. They all are very knowledgable but sometimes I just wanna see an entertaining regular person going through the daily challenges bonsai, and I'll take their knowledge with a large grain of salt. But often theyre honest of their knowledge and experience.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

👍

[@matthewlane5562]

Some of the channels showing more humble trees remind me hugely that bonsai, while an art form, can be enjoyed at many different levels - seeing stunning trees designed and grown by "professionals" can sometimes be overwhelming and make me want to plant mine back in the ground and give up. Seeing people enjoying trees that are more humble in design but healthy and growing, reminds me to keep at it for the simple pleasure of watering and clipping them!

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Great point. Enjoy your trees and developing them.

[@bijanbekhrad-zx6tb]

Hey Jason, I'm really sorry that you removed the Persian language from your videos

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

I have not had chance to add translations yet for this video. I’m currently away on holiday, without access to my laptop, but will add them soon (possibly this evening). Apologies for any inconvenience.

[@bijanbekhrad-zx6tb]

​@@TheBonsaiGardenThank you very much❤

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

I have now added translations.

[@nicoc357]

Hello, first of all: thank You very much for all the work you put in your videos and your Bonsais. But I must say that I‘m a bit confused by the topic of the discussion you tried to start. I may be new to bonsai but i‘m not new to the Internet. And maybe it’s precisely because I‘m a bit younger than you that I have a different perspective torwards this whole thing. But all the qualities you just mentioned that should be the base of credibility in the real world, as I See it are completely meaningless on the Internet. You can fake anything online. And everyone should know that. For my part, when I watch your Channel(s) (which I enjoy a lot) it’s not to get a real education. I would never copy you. But your videos are an inspiration to make my own mistakes and learn from them… and occasionally from your mistakes ;) I think you might be overthinking it. Stay zen. And one should Never forget: the truth is not online.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Thanks. It was an intentionally provocative video, intended to create thought, discussion and debate - not necessarily agreement and consensus. I agree with many of your points…

[@derekgillan7314]

You bought an apple tree from Chan.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Yes. I have maybe a hundred trees. One of them is a crab apple I bought from Herons.

[@derekgillan7314]

I was surprised to see how many bought trees you have within your collection. A very varied and interesting selection for your collection. Enjoying the Art is so important. I sometimes work away on a tree and don't even notice that it is raining. Even at night, you can sometimes see the style rather than the colours. ;)

[@malsrfun2956]

Had to stop watching midway through, because by your standards (and we all have our own) channels like Tony's Bonsai and Notion Bonsai have no credibility, yet I enjoy both. Bonsai happens all over the world to different people with different plants, climates, and goals. There is no one path.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

🤗

[@snox7320]

Are you stating that your channel has credibility through this video ?

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

What do you think? A sense some negativity coming.

[@snox7320]

Not negativity, was simply asking if you feel your channel is credible .

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Did you watch the video? I addressed that question explicitly in the first minute, then again in the final minute.

[@snox7320]

I sure did .

[@snox7320]

I can't see where you directly say your channel is credible ​@@TheBonsaiGarden

[@AlecShernAPS]

This video in itself seems gatekeepy, low effort, and a shallow attempt to (as you keep saying over and over) "stir the pot"/create controversy and push viewership. Bonsai credibility will mostly self govern as all art. If people don't like looking at it they won't pay any attention or will be critical. I'm not sure I have any useful takeaways from this video.

[@TalkingLoon]

Well on the surface yeah, that was my exact impression too, but upon more reflecting I vividly recall watching many videos and they all follow this recipe: 1. Buy some garden center material 2. Bare root it, put it in a bonsai pot 3. Wire and prune the heck out of it 4. Top it off with moss and present this as a finished work, amazing instant bonsai, anyone can do it in about an hour! What they never show is the follow up where it's all dead in about 3 weeks. There is little to no advice on keeping the tree alive, no emphasis on the time and patience actually required, and to me these videos do more harm than good, in fact they are outright misleading. This is what Jason is warning us about and I agree.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

@TalkingLoon thank you 🙏

[@sushiyamaster989]

You lose credibility when you make videos like this. Emotional trash music in the background. Nothing to do with bonsai. Please focus.

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

👍

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

If you want editorial control, start your own channel.

[@Bonsaicrazy]

Well I guess I’m not credible then Jason 🥲😞😞 I get what your saying but ouch 😞👊👊

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

😂😂❤️ You’re in a different league Andy with your crazy offbeat bonsai.

[@Bonsaicrazy]

@ 👌why thank you sir 🥳