Borderline to Narcissist: I Will Abandon You First

Survey of latest findings on Borderline Personality Disorder
• Borderline Woman as Di...
Borderline Triangulates with Rescuer to Silence Pain, Abandonment Anxiety • Borderline Triangulate...
Borderline Woman: Devaluation, Self-harm, Alcoholism
• Borderline Woman: Part...
Borderline: I will dump you before you dump me. I will cheat on you in your presence or abuse you and this way abandon you before you get the chance to hurt me.
Narcissist: I will abuse you in order to control you and because to manipulate you I need to push your buttons and your biggest trigger is separation anxiety.
More about Borderline Personality Disorder
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[@larosePNW]

When the bpd partner senses the narcissists falsity in switching from the love bombing phase to revealing themselves and their intention to hijack personal vulnerabilities, its all gloves off for sure! Narcissists biggest mistake/shortcoming and ultimately threat to their existence is underestimating the intelligence of those around them.

[@raymondezell7817]

Gotta agree. Ill be borderline if you think I’m stupid

[@motothe2592]

Raymond Ezell Lmaooooo exactly

[@brixvold]

Claiming intelligence in one's own relationships when suffering from a higher degree of narcissism is kind of absurd.

[@willcosta7178]

Accurate. One day I finally caught my covert narc devaluing me.. and that was the last day we spent together as a married couple.

[@larosePNW]

L-F Something a narc would 100% say.

[@twainslureca]

I’ve had the BPD diagnosis for 21 years and this is all true. I will leave you before you leave me. I cannot handle abandonment, rejection or distancing.

[@neogbfe3587]

Same, though I don't have BPD. I have been diagnosed with schizophrenia, my dilusional state engulfs all thoughts. A full blown schizophrenic state sometimes will cause depersonalization or disconnection. Once I feel this way, I don't comeback. I will stop believing I even dated the individual, like they never existed. Luckily I have only been through this 3 times in my life. I sometimes have individuals that have come up to me saying, I remember you. Though I don't remember them or what I had said.

[@vibrantlotus8154]

Me too

[@Alchemy_Art_Designs]

Yes. As a BPD woman who attracts NPDs I can say he’s 100% right. Both my parents were narcs ... I feel like giving up on relationships totally....but can’t bear the idea of growing old alone ....

[@matchalatte4101]

i dont have BPD but i sure have abandonment wounds that resulted from not being loved, seen or heard in childhood. when my narc ex started devaluing me by ghosting & reappearing and bailing out on plans, i cut him off because his slow devaluation hurt so much. i couldnt bear to wait out for him to discard him fully so i discarded him first. its been 14 months.

[@audriiiiroberts3030]

@@matchalatte4101 I am so sorry you had to go through that, you aren’t ever alone though.

[@whit350z2]

I don’t have casual sex but I reckless drive, lie, spend, withdrawal from social life, might quit a job, and also will starve myself at my worst. The end was very spot on with all my relationships and my last narcissistic one. I calculate and anticipate and feel when abandonment is coming and have to cut ties first. I’ve never been dumped because I know I could not handle it. This last relationship w a true narcissist made me the most suicidal I’ve ever been in my life. I mean actually writing the note and sitting there w my gun in the place I had always planned to do it. Thank god I found in that the want to live but I will never get in a relationship again w someone w narcissistic traits. I Can not handle it whatsoever. The unknowing of when they will or if they will call me back the silent treatment really does a number on my brain. I can feel my body react before I even have time to think. It truly is an illness.

[@NinaKarmen]

No one and nothing deserves you giving up your life ! Fuck them all , fuck them!

[@marterllll]

I lived this in the flesh. I can tell its devastating and it takes months to heal. But theres a lesson to learn.

[@willcosta7178]

This is the most accurate description of my relationship I’ve seen. I’m the BPD person, and my ex-wife was the narcissist. I often threatened to end the relationship because I both loved and hated her on a daily basis, and I wanted to ditch her first. When she finally discarded me, I definitely experienced symptoms of psychopathy as well..

[@LuciaSchna]

This is exactly what happen to me as the female BPD two months ago, i left him (the Narcissist) first. Everything in this video, very accurate. Thank you

[@cherylf9788]

I'm not a psychologist, but i think that was a very accurate summary of BPD you gave at the end. The person I was with, who i very much thought might have BPD, took that "I will hurt you before you hurt me" tactic often. I could see him twist up everything i said or did to be monstrous so he could justify his discarding me. I could see his own fears eat up whatever love he had for me, and spit it back out as hate. I was very angry about it, but now i just feel pity. I hope he finds something or someone who can help him better than I could.

[@vespertine789]

How does anyone with BPD listen to this stuff without wanting to bang their heads against a wall. It's so bleak. I feel like a malfunctioning puppet who's cursed to be alone.

[@fukyoutubefukthegovfuku]

I know how you feel.

[@casket8530]

BPDs are cursed to be alone. They destroy everyone in their path, this mental disorder is bleak

[@sarpsays]

Don't take it to heart. These are all generalizations in the end and our human, usually lackluster, attempts to fit people into boxes. All disordered people can really just be viewed as being at a certain threshold to get that label. Otherwise everyone is on a spectrum for everything, and no two people with the same disorder are the same person. There are borderlines who can be lower on the spectrum and have the possibility for healthy relationships, there can be those who are higher but have such a character and a certain skillset that allow them to resolve through the card they've been dealt. Life has infinitely more shades than we make it out to have. Although it sure is great to use terminology and theory, just as using a map to travel, to provide us with direction as we go through it.

[@observer888]

I don't know how to explain this but awareness is somehow relieving.. :)

[@shellae1922]

@@sarpsays yes it is like recognizing a sense of scale about everything...not just our disorders or relationships.

[@Spramele]

Yep, true... Except for, I’ve never not forgotten the narcissist. They have an obsessive hold on you, until they don’t. But, never dissociate where you forget them. Thank you Sam...

[@TenaciousSLG]

In the same situation and desperately wish I could get the poison of him out of my head, and even more ashamed to say, out of my heart at times.

[@naghshepenhan]

I never forgot him. Actually I became so obsessive when he was not around. But sure I always planned to punish him, I never did, something "kind" and hopeful about me that just wanted to trust people and the world and the possibility of change. The only way I punished him was by saying things that I knew would hurt him. I left him a month ago and though it has been hard I was feeling strong and I could see "the light" on the surface of the water. But today the ancient rage is awake . I just wish I could harm him on every level of existence. I just wish I could. I wish could hurt him and the woman he has been with for 30 years telling me she was nothing, nothing at all, just weird circumstances. I wish I could burn everything down. .... But at the end, if it wasn't him it would have been somebody else. My rage, oh my god my rage that he just amplified. This devouring rage!

[@selfpsychology3318]

This is so true, it's unbelievable how I found my relationship explained so deeply here. I saw many videos, but none revealed the truth like this one I think myself as borderline and my ex partner as narcissist. I chased him a lot to not abondon me, I always had this obsession with him even when we were perfectly fine in relationship, I had million ideas that how could he probably leave me. And he did left me two times for a short period and I did everything to get him back just that I could be the one to leave him....

[@neti-neti4727]

Was leaving him a conscious plan?

[@QuirkyQubits]

❤ story of my life … thanks god most of my partners were narcs and I didn’t damage many “normies”

[@niimahrabiu5815]

I remember crying for hours and having sleepless nights just because someone I actually loved said they love me and asked me out and I knew that PAIN was coming .😢

[@Lizapendleton]

Living with a narcissist seems to create BPD symptoms in the other person

[@samvaknin]

Search the channel.

[@Lizapendleton]

@@samvaknin thank you, will do that.

[@NoNakersAllowed]

This is me and the situation I just got out of. I'm the borderline personality

[@adrianac5561]

Same.

[@onlyluvisreal6691]

I don't know if I am borderline or not but I always dated guys that I wouldn't or couldn't love completely and that I could (and did) easily discard when they hurt me. I always expect these relationships to end badly and them wanting to hurt me.

[@agnese2215]

Yes this is the truth..i am borderline and my man is a narcissist ....and is a fatal attraction

[@dreww1818]

Prof Vaknin is a smart cookie. Probably the best explanation I have heard about describing BPD.

[@betonmaugli]

Latest experience with a woman; online dating, bit more than 2 weeks in, quite intense, girl says she has bpd, but doing well although not on treatment at the moment. first clash when after 2 weeks reveals after mixed signs that she has a husband who is now only best friend. Im asking her out on it, why she didn't tell when I asked earlier why she is on dating apps, she says "its normal and why would they divorce when they are friends? she is judged by me unfairly.." im the first who reacts like this, and we should stop talking." blocks me on app, waits my message back via text, and when I wish her all the best with no apology but emphatic answer, she gets to a conclusion that I have issues, and it wouldn't work. And blocks me there as well. I realised it just now, that I have triggered her abandonment issues probably... After a 5 years of relationship with someone with bpd I know how I should have kept her validate her but I couldnt just slap myself again at the face, knowing she is a thinking bomb, that sooner or later would explode. I am experiencing kind of withdrawal symptoms already, after this short period of contact. I feel so drained and disappointed again.

[@waterbabe2697]

This resonates so much with me . This is true I'm a Borderline .

[@evavatsaki1305]

I've been following your narrative, your work, for the last few weeks and I see all the problems, the malfunctions, everything... In fact I am going on a trip along with you, and gaining many insights from the other side of this relationship running through millennia. Deepening my understanding throughout my healing journey. Yet, I can't miss the remarkable love story that is moving underneath, as if your whole work is like a beautiful love poem. Beautiful. Am I romanticising ?

[@samvaknin]

No. Just idealizing me.

[@Melissa-ch7vu]

Yep. I’m divorcing my narc for 2nd time after the last time he abused me - I literally felt my self break in half inside. I am done. Oddly it happened hundred of times before this, but this last time I split him off unconsciously. I will never go back.

[@eljimberinoq5518]

Went through this over the last eight months. Dumped about 6 times. Trying to examine my own role in the whole thing. What I don't understand, and never could help her to understand, is that I never planned to dump her.

[@mannyluke7566]

I’m right there with you man

[@theearthisflat2083]

Same. It doesn’t matter if you did or didn’t. Something, anything could have triggered the abandonment in her mind and she would have fabricated it in her mind. My ex’s was a job loss.

[@annly666]

this is 1000 accurate on how i react also, i turn psychopathic

[@halliehuffman7551]

I kept telling him to just replace me. He finally did, for a much better doormat.

[@Allahisadicksuckingmosquito]

This is not BPD.

[@Yamikaiba123]

"He internalizes everyone, because the Narcissist only interacts with internal objects." Lol, now this gives me pause to wonder if I'm a high-functioning Narcissist. But I think I only internalize everything because of my propensity to intelectualize and relate in order to understand. Was I accused of Narcissism in primary school? Incessantly, and always to my frustration. When I rebelled with just cause, or held my ground and won, it was the person which lost standing in the conflict who accused me of narcissism. I am more likely now to be suspected of Autism. But I know that ADHD covers most of my quirks.

[@lulumoon6942]

EVERYTHING about your comment doesn't track as Autism... 💯 NPD

[@schlongy2dope]

Finally Bravo. I was thinking of studying a PhD to sort this out. Someone else is on it. Phew

[@theblendedborderline]

I can identify with much of this as a person with BPD except the cheating. I have thought of it (and if I did do it it would be known to the partner as a means to hurt them) but that just ain't me.

[@meganharrington9755]

Same, I would never cheat on my partner. I think I am the disassociating type. I don’t necessarily do anything self-destructive…. I might claim I’m going to do something stupid but then my responsibility senses kick in and I come back to earth & I hate myself because of how responsible I am. Everything else with this video is spot on with me though. I always wondered why the closer my partner and I became, when we would be intimate together, it almost felt weird to me & I started to avoid it. I push him away and attack him with my words, not knowing it at the time because I am in some kind of anger zone, but it is to intentionally hurt him. I just never realized it was because of my fear that he has the power to hurt me because of my love for him. We have always been very close and have a best friend kind of connection, he is always trying to please me and will do anything to make me happy. He literally made me feel like the only woman that existed in the world and after nine years together, four years married, I would have bet my life that that man would never cheat on me. I found out 14 months ago that he has cheated on me over the course of the entire nine years with at least seven different women. And now it all comes together for me, I knew he would hurt me eventually because everyone I’ve ever loved has…. So I subconsciously but intentionally avoided intimacy with him because of that fear. I left him the moment I found out. I have always told him I can handle anything, and we could get through anything…. anything except infidelity - that was the dealbreaker. The weirdest part about all of this as I think he is BPD too. He was using unprotected sex with strangers as a form of self sabotage as well as a Plan B if we didn’t work out. He NEEDED me to desire him & Because of that, I feel like I rebelled purposely and would not give it to him (we were still sexually active but I never initiated nor was I ever “horny” - kind of figured I had a low libido or something. We are all crazy in our own ways I suppose 🤷🏼‍♀️

[@roxannasmith4603]

It's really simple- it depends upon the partner's behaviour and the power dynamic within the relationship. It changes.

[@Crandemon]

This happened to me, exactly. Then came the rejection rage from dude. So glad I got away from that.

[@celestetheariesdorsey952]

Wow 😳 this sounds like me Borderline

[@ishootbishez6974]

Same HA!!!

[@anthonygrieco9015]

My Wife..unfortunately

[@fruitopia5461]

Me too! How can we heal ourselves from this that’s the question :(

[@michaelthompson729]

@@ishootbishez6974 to the

[@job4707]

I was the borderline, he was the narcissist. I was the other woman. How about that for self abuse of myself. Choosing a man who could not meet my needs and I would not meet his. I have just walked away. Sanity intact.....just. Much to dissect and think about and time to have a real relationship and not a fantasy one, as an affair is.

[@adrianac5561]

Same. I'm choosing to abandon him today. I've had enough. I need someone who will give me stability, someone who's not contantly trying to find excuses to introduce other people into the relationship.

[@generalzod3753]

Not sure if my ex was a borderline. But she certainly has many of the traits. This video describes the relationship to a T. However I'm no narcissist.

[@penelopepitstop1707]

I wonder if the narcissist purposely engages in long term mental/emotional manipulation so that his victim develops borderline traits?

[@Itshistory_itspoetry]

Ali Avner 110% think your theory is accurate. I‘ve had a number of relationships over the years and my most abusive one with a narc for 6 years had me insidiously developing borderline and after the 4th year I believe that I developed full blown BPD. Afterwards was a slow recovery but since then I‘ve had healthy breakups without any crazy ugly endings. My thoughts are that if you have natural tendencies or characteristics of BPD they can be inflated and more can be developed the longer you’re with a narcissist. Makes sense to me..

[@balkangetaway]

I was made crazy after multiple chuckles of this crazy behaviour... Instead of leaving though I started to fight back.

[@LindaBarham]

The trauma my narc has inflicted on me for the past 9 years, mental/psychological abuse brought about PTSD, Major Depression, Anxiety and finally lead to a diagnosis of BPD. Before I met him I was a confident, strong and high functioning woman. That woman no longer exists 😥. I'm a shell of my former self.

[@evaharris5239]

Absolutely agree with this! I turned borderline in two relationships. Last one was extremely high in narc traits as was his family system. Certainly have a pre-disposition for it growing up in a co-dependent household but each time once I healed all the symptoms disappeared. Strongly believe in temporary disorder development due to abuse...

[@taiyebbadr8912]

Borderline women in this thread doing exactly what Vaknin talks about.

[@LimitlessThinker]

Thank you for this information. You do such an excellent job of explaining such complicated dynamics.

[@M.R.B18ck]

Is there a possibly link between overindulgence in food leading to obesity and just a general personal neglect for boderlines?

[@adrianac5561]

I think so, specially during relationships, since it can be so detrimental.

[@ConnieGeldreich22]

Interesting. This makes total sense. Thank you!

[@johnwhorfin3815]

Are all of these personality problems a matter of evolutionary mismatch? How many of these situations would arise in the ancestral environment - before privacy was invented? The child grows up in an atmosphere of copious sharing of every resource including caregivers?

[@heatherann4390]

The title sounds like me. Before someone hurts me or abandones me I bet them to the punch 😔

[@cicei7469]

@@justinacosta9973 I’m pretty sure she did both. us borderlines can tell when the person is going to abandon

[@samsonsarabi8719]

So relationship with pwBPD is impossible. They will finally destroy everything because of their fears. Fear of rejection and fear of intimacy... they prefer temporary strangers and ignore long-term partners. Investing energy on pwBPDs is like writing poem on ice.

[@anitanoterajes]

Yea let's not demonize people with personality disorder.

[@briceharris1601]

@@anitanoterajes lmao okay sjw

[@LindaBarham]

Not true at all! I'm fighting for my 10 year marriage with my narc husband. I give 100% and get back 5% if I'm lucky. I should have walked away 9 years ago but because of my abandonment issues I can't. He has contributed to my BPD after a very traumatic event he caused.

[@itsnotthatdeep316]

Yeah it was not the case for me either. I was in relationship with a guy who I now think was a narcissist. I was literally fighting till the end.

[@CaptainCharismaY2J]

@@briceharris1601 They are very selective creatures, when they mean "personality disordered" they just mean borderlines. Your allowed to bash narcissists all day long lol.

[@gaiamother9323]

So is she an anxious avoidant personality? The borderline woman example

[@Yamikaiba123]

It sounds like the Borderline has to find a God to satisfy her needs, and I am being half jokingly serious, and half seriously joking.

[@adrianac5561]

True. A stable one tho

[@arablover123]

Or simply just a passion outside of relationships as I did… finding my career didn’t heal me but it gave me a healthy outlet for a lot of my obsessive thinking.

[@anahid.11]

Well done Sam. All your recent videos on borderline are so spot on. really happy you're going into this topic in detail. What do you think will heal borderlines? I'd appreciate your help and further insight.

[@Yamikaiba123]

This gives me pause to wonder if a close friend with ADHD (who had a falling out with me over mis-interpreted signals) in fact has Borderline Personality Disorder.

[@lulumoon6942]

Once my hormones changed this spell broke for me. Wish for many here the same peace!

[@vintagebabyseventythree6244]

Spot on

[@ricardopereira597]

Very very impressive. The best characterization i have ever seen on borderline. It’s really as you described, unfortunately.... Some specialists defend that treatment it’s possible if the person assume and really wanted to change, but difficult. What do you think? Thanks

[@samvaknin]

DBT is very effective with BPD.

[@dianaathens1]

i am borderline i met a narcissist man, and yes i told him i will abandon you first

[@thetalkingtelepath]

I totally agree with this title. Great video ✅

[@joymace1223]

She's either leave him or trap him with a pregnancy.

[@charlesbromberick4247]

"I´m going to dump you before you can dump me."

[@believer9258]

please make a video on how to fix borderlines and narcissisms

[@user-ul7wp8sj2t]

.....I'm gonna do to you....firsr. Well, doesn't it make sense ?😁 I had a borderline diagnostic and really many things described here r happened in my life. I was abused by my father. He had a malignant narcissist family, I was extremely negleted emotionaly with no limits. Now, all I think is that I must run from the psycopath....because he realizes my behavior and doesn't stop playing with me saying we are "equal". No, I'm not exactly equal....he is macabre and hurts people a lot. I just have a lonely life on internet and all I want from the psycho is to look for french movies suggestions (because to love bombing me he publishs "Novelle Vague" and all the sort of crazy characters he may find in films. And he does all this through of all his alter-egos....I know why I must avoid....yes...1-to love is to suffer, 2- He is violent (very), 3- He may kill me. Then Dr. I've been very sensable anyway (I'm supposed to believe)....appreciating life how much is possible in my way... 4- for only some hours I may become a psychopath and I think for more hours I may become a narcissist....but I feel really miserable...(really don't like). I have an enormous wound inside myself. I have an enormous guilt to cure.

[@alinazeller8191]

Amazing !!

[@princhipessa1969]

Best explanation ever. Sounds like my exBPD gf. Run fast! It’s a world of hell for a partner.

[@trinity6764]

This was a very interesting video.

[@Xhayl]

Very accurate.. thank you

[@mh0mz]

I always wondered why i left a partner within a month.....now i know

[@MackDeville]

Wtf, My ex wife is Both Borderline and Covert Narc

[@minajx0]

wow, i have casual sex. casual sex is easy and enjoyable for me to fill my emotional void and a way to have temporary intimacy. i think i’m addicted to intimacy. when i reconnected with my ex and was intimate with him it was like a drug. i became attached to his attention. i self destruct when he’s not giving me the attention i desire. i become passive aggressive, manipulative and emotional. this mental disorder is very complex and is a rollercoaster of a ride. so many highs and lows

[@leahnalopez1985]

So who do we think hurts the most in these types of relationships, who plays the game better/worse

[@herbertgoldstein1156]

do all narcissists love bomb?

[@samvaknin]

Yes. It is the beginning phase of the shared fantasy.

[@wiktorkoprowski293]

Dear Professor Vaknin, You gave an example, that BPD people take something with them that belongs to loved ones. Are there any other ways to become a more constant object for a BPD woman, so her fear of the abandoment is lower? I assume that its not possible to get rid of the fear completly, because that is the core of BPD.

[@samvaknin]

You are right: it is utterly impossible, she conjures up abandonment even when there is no hint if it in reality.

[@husky2251]

But abandoning narcissist, who definitely is abusive and going to hurt, is the right decission anyway. Not waiting for him to abandon, but doing it first instead, is actually the best thing that person can do. Healthy one should do the same. I can agree, that in other relationship many irrational fears of BPD may destroy the bond, but with narcissist, there are many hardcore facts. It is no longer an immagination and projection of BPD person - the intention to hurt and bad treatment is reality of the narcisstic partner. If BPD has this self-defence mechanism to escape first is a life saver for her, isn’t it?

[@samvaknin]

Where do I say otherwise? I am the father of the "no contact" set of strategies in 1995.

[@husky2251]

@@samvaknin Thank you for your reply! Even I know your concept of „no contact”, I just didn’t get from the video that you see the behavor of BPD here, as something healthy for her too. One thing, what is best for the narcisst and the other is, what is best for the BPD in the relationship. Thank you for the answer. I have an impresson, that when BPD has some level of consciousness (after therapy etc.), then maybe this experience of meeting the „hardcore narcisst”, when all her fears becomes true and she can be sure that it is no longer her projection, that it might be healing. The person in front of her acctually IS her enemy and it is too obvious to go again to chaotic state of mind. Because she actually once again IS in the reality, the same that it was in childhood, but now she is an adult and she can choose her own action. Emerge herself in here and now and consciously let it go. Quite therapic experience. That’s what I thought futher under the „healthy” behavior in this kind of situation - don’t mind it, just wanted to share.

[@user-yi8cs5sb7f]

Thank u❤

[@user-yh2lv6ms4i]

If both people in the relationship are BPD or both are NPD, wouldn't they relate to each other better and have a good chance of remaining together? I'm inferring that BPDs are anxiously-attached based upon the video. What about people who have avoidant-dismissive attachment styles? Is it indicative of BPD, too?

[@observer888]

It's very hard to find BPDs attracted to other BPDs and NPDs to other NPDs. They don't match. They need the opposite to alleviate their psychopathology. NPDs with BPDs are like a hand and a glove!

[@just2_sharew_u526]

Yes I did.

[@oliyaaelle]

how u know in which phase u r in today?

[@sofiaavetisian5673]

Hello! Who does the narcissist have a more functioning “happy” relationship with? With a codependent or a borderline?

[@alfieshanks6555]

How can I get a BPD back who left out of fear of abandonment

[@HerbertGoldstein-gy3gy]

dont

[@leilacarvalho409]

🥴 Finding out you’re the BPD goes crazy 😂

[@caxsfSpeedster]

Anyone can advise a good reference for a therapist ? I kind of would like to find someone that has the understanding of these complex patterns like Prof. Sam Vaknin. Thanks

[@neti-neti4727]

What is the difference between Love Bombing and normal devotion during infatuation?

[@christinamichellephotograp8728]

Will a borderline present this way with a healthy partner?

[@samvaknin]

Yes.

[@amalmaqar6324]

I suspect that my son has narcissistic disorder but I wonder if he has ADHD disorder, so how can I differentiate between them!!?

[@belleame1064]

@@TheGreekPoet Agreed

[@rachellewis6383]

Wow!

[@universe2198]

Nice

[@amandabotterill1000]

love ur explanaitions soo intelligently sed im a true bordrekine trying to outsmart nsrc i know i cant its lije leave him now fast buut i miss the hwat of it all becuease it is of course heated xx

[@waterbaby9397]

Hahah so true ❣️.

[@BunnieBee136]

Wow this sounds like me!

[@avisjohnson35]

Or the borderline gets so afraid to lose in a person that they just get pregnant