Borg Cube vs Doomsday Machine | Star Trek

[@UtopianBroadcast1]

Correction: "The Doomsday Machine fires a pure antiproton beam".

[@mrsunshimmy8030]

i heard in the lore that progenitor race made these to try and defeat the borg

[@patrickmurray3846]

@@mrsunshimmy8030 the borg are not that old, only 1k years old at most. while the progenitor's are from millions of years ago.

[@mrsunshimmy8030]

@@patrickmurray3846 one iteration of the borg, the version we see in show started 1600s earth year

[@bentonmarcum8924]

How does a antiprotein beam work.? Does it starve the the target.? 🤔

[@mrsunshimmy8030]

@@bentonmarcum8924 it makes the quarks that make up the proton no want to hang out with each other, resulting in a rapid shift from matter into a quark soup. Though quarks below a certain temperature and pressure cannot be alone. So the quarks will either replicate if extra energy is available or form pairs with existing quarks. three quarks are needed to make one proton. The soup of quarks pairs actively collapse into hydrogen and helium atoms.

[@jamesms4]

I believe in the Star Trek Novel Vendetta a super Planet Killer met a Borg ship. It fired a pure anti-proton beam at the Borg and quote "laughed at the Borg Cube's shields and blew off the top half of the ship". My money is on the Planet Killer.

[@antiWhiteism777]

@jamesms4 --- Was the machine in the book explicitly superior to the show?

[@jamesms4]

@@antiWhiteism777 I think so. The Planet Killer in TOS was according too the Book a Prototype launched and sent to Borg Space. The one in Vendetta was more powerful. Still laughing anti-Protons.....

[@tbirdguy1]

In my opinion, considering all the various factors... The Doomsday Machine would win most encounters with the Borg. 1. The Borg cannot adapt to an enemy that they cannot partially absorb or assimilate. There entire operating procedure is study, assimilate/destroy, move on. The Doomsday machine cannot be assimilated, it has no biological features, or brain that can be overcome by the collective mind. It's functions are purely robotic. In order to understand it's programming, the Borg need access to it's language, it's databases, it's protocol. The Machine doesn't allow anything to get that close. Anything attempting to board it, or stop it would be seen as a threat and hit with maximum fire power. 2. The Doomsday machine does not do warning shots. When it attacks, it goes all out until the enemy is destroyed or retreats. The Borg would be utterly unable to deal with an enemy that can destroy them with one shot. Remember how they reacted to Species 8472. They were overwhelmed not by the number of enemies, but the inability to adapt their shields and weaponry to counter the threat. Fleets of Borg Cubes would attack the Doomsday machine, but one by one they would be destroyed and consumed. 3. The Doomsday machine has a scattering field that blacked out all coms. A cube encountering the Machine would likely move in to study, and then be destroyed. The loss of the one ship would provoke more ships to study the situation. The only issue for the Doomsday machine would be the ability to refuel. If caught in the open, outside of planetary systems, it may not be able to consume fuel to keep functioning. Also if attacked enmasse in wave attacks, it's possible that the Borg could penetrate it's main weapon and destroy it targeting it's "mouth" with enough weaponry. All in all one Doomsday Machine would be a difficult foe for the Borg. Imagine a fleet of them?

[@louisbennett7709]

The Star trek TNG Novel 'Vendetta' Proved beyond doubt that the Doomsday Machine would be the clear winner. The race that built the Prototype that Captain Kirk encountered in the TV series was nothing compared to one which was never launched. It's design was to destroy the Borg and their home planet. Excellent Story and it should have been made into TNG Major motion picture but like all things Hollywood has no such imagination.

[@SOLtoo]

It would surpass EVERY TNG movie by 1000x and would have been better than Wrath of Khan too!

[@earthenergyhex]

that would be a good movie

[@louisbennett7709]

@@earthenergyhex Yup Yup, It would have been my call after reading it. Hollywood these days is so Brain dead though and locked into a continual cycle of Sequel Syndrome, and political Propaganda movies so they wouldn't know a Cool concept if it fell in their laps with a million dollars attached.

[@montylc2001]

I have yet to read this book. Is it considered canon?

[@geraldstephens6612]

​@@earthenergyhexAgreed.

[@GarfieldofBorg]

There's a Star Trek: The Next Generation novel in which a second Doomsday Machine is discovered inactivate, and it's found out that both machines were created by their builders to be weapons against the Borg. As to who would win, there's no way to know for sure.

[@krisgonynor689]

Yes, that book explained that the Doomsday Machine was purposely designed to take on the Borg - by Guinan's people, no less. The reason it was running around destroying planets was that it was designed to have an El-Aurian pilot to control it. But the pilot was long dead and the machine was just on auto pilot, refueling itself while looking for Borg to destroy.

[@charlesking1438]

The Borg assimilated worlds the Providers built the Doomsday machines to chop planets into rubble, and it’s solid Nutronium hull was made to resist Borg weapons. The Doomsday machines were specifically built to fight the Borg and destroy the very worlds they wanted to assimilate

[@GarfieldofBorg]

@@charlesking1438 Actually, I don't think that the builders of the Doomsday Machine had originally intended for it to destroy just any random planet. If it was indeed built to be a weapon against the Borg, then it was probably meant to destroy only planets that had been completely assimilated by the Borg.

[@simonchai3040]

The novel is called the vendetta. Excellent novel about the supossed second more powerful machine

[@GarfieldofBorg]

@@simonchai3040 Yeah, that sounds about right. It's been several years since I had read the book, so I had forgotten what the title for the book was. Thanks for helping me to remember the name of the book.

[@RowlandBuck-r4b]

I wonder if the subspace interference caused by the doomsday machine was intended to disrupt a borg ships link to the and possibly even the borg links within a ship.

[@ericathorp974]

That would be my guess

[@55Quirll]

A good possibility since there would have been no need for any such interference otherwise.

[@oldtimefarmboy617]

In the books, it was designed specifically to attack the Borg. Destroy the Borg ships and planets and then use the wreckage as fuel to keep it going. Turns out the one seen on the original series was the prototype that was built outside the galaxy and did not have warp drive. The finished but never deployed Doomsday machine was still anchored at the construction facilities until it was found and deployed during the TNG era. It could totally destroy a Borg cube with just one shot. It required an organic pilot who had to fuse with the computer to work but the person who did eventually was mentally unstable and in their desperation to get to Borg space they pushed the drive too far and hit the warp 10 limit and created a time loop they could not escape because every time they went back in time they could not remember what they had done beyond that moment.

[@55Quirll]

@@oldtimefarmboy617 Yes, exactly, also I believe the human host had been wounded while still attached to the Machine. I really enjoyed the book, would have loved to have seen a movie made out of it

[@louisbennett7709]

Not bad. It adds up because the Borg work on a hive mind principle 'United they stand, divided they should fall'.

[@-JA-]

Depends on whether they can assimilate or not.

[@theromulanwarhawk]

The Borg have an edge in being connected to the Collective at all times and their ability to adapt. But all that flies out the window when facing the doomsday machine. The subspace interference the machine generates can be felt in the span between solar systems. It also seems to act as a sort of "radar," alerting the device when any potential prey enters the area. Kind of like how the lateral line in a shark can detect minute changes in the ocean over miles. The energy dampening field means that the closer you get to the doomsday machine, the faster YOUR power is drained. Now, if you're a Borg ship facing all those things, here's what happens: Transwarp is a function of subspace as is warp drive. So right away, you're cut off from the Collective, and your ability to access the hive mind to search for ways to adapt; you have to rely on the drones within your ship. And while you still have warp power, the closer you are to the machine means you can't form a stable warp bubble, if not from the subspace dampening, then certainly from the intense gravitational pull anything the size of the doomsday machine would inherently have due to its construction of a hyperdense material, "Neutronium." So now your weapons and shields are now functioning at less than optimum. As a result, you now lack the ability to fight effectively. The Doomsday Machine on the other hand. is operating at its peak. So, if it hits you with an antiproton beam, your life will be measured in minutes. The only advantage a smaller vessel would have is maneuverability and, if it can get far enough away, speed. The Doomsday Machine, according to various sources had a top speed of warp 4. Presumably it could coast a great distance while in a low-power mode, resuming full power when either food or an enemy is detected... When you're the Doomsday Machine, both are pretty much the same thing. ADVANTAGE: The Doomsday Machine.

[@shanenolan5625]

I remember a good tng book . ( vendetta) doomsday machine vs a borg cube . . An alorian ( who survived birgitta assimilation) finds a doomsday machine and uses it against the borg .

[@OmegaOrdained]

Hey Shane how's it going! I love Vendetta! Although it's been about 20 years since I've read it LOL but I remember it was a killer book! Have a good weekend my friend!😎👍

[@shanenolan5625]

@Omega Ordained hey long time no see ( too long) ( my fault) yes it's been about around 20s years since I read it . I remember a bits of it , 70 tolian ships trying the Web or a Hull breach a woman almost flying into space only for the emergency force field to save her , activities and dhe lost an arm or her legs . ( but survived) . Hope you and the family are doing well ?

[@OmegaOrdained]

@@shanenolan5625 no worries my friend! Looking forward to some free time to reread my star trek books, they are so good! 😎👍

[@ArgoDave]

I think I read it too. IIRC the Dooomsday machine wins then is sent through a large star to try and destroy it. Can't recall the exact end...

[@johnhoran9840]

@@ArgoDave It sails through the star undamaged.

[@oubliette862]

unless the borg have an empty cube floating around to sacrifice I think they would be dinner.

[@valaric2]

in a true battle, you have to look at initial tactics. The borg always start with sending a message: "prepare to be assimilated, resistance is futile!" The DM is automated so while the borg are talking, the DM is attacking. If the borg can survive the first attack and recover, they can win, if they are crippled, the cube becomes lunch! Now since the premise is 1 on 1, I'd side with the DM on the first encounter as the borg act like relentless npcs in encounters. When the queen takes over tactics then sacrifice and ingenuity will prevail for the borg as the queen does not value her drones as she shees them as an unlimited resource. Borg drones are not allowed to think for themselves, but follow a preprogrammed set of choices for encounters. This is their greatest weakness and why op monsters like the DM will win early and often, yet lose in the end.

[@ericathorp974]

The DM would never hear the broadcast due to the sub space interference. The power nodes on the cube would attract the DM until it was in optimum range. The interference would cut the cube off from the collective, so the queen is out of the fight unless multiple cubes/spheres are involved

[@Autobubbs]

There was a Voyager comic that addressed this very situation. They ran into another DM in the Delta Quadrant, with Seven indicating the Borg engaging against the machine, and being forced to retreat due to it's overwhelming firepower.

[@mattsarahhall6760]

Doomsday machine - yes, Borg can adapt, but that takes power. With the DM having enough power to pulverize a planet, who says the borg can absorb or deflect that much power? They weren't able to adapt to Species 8472 and borg cubes were being destroyed left and right by single ships. Not to mention when they combine several to destroy a planet. Long story short, they may adapt, but the amount of sheer power would overwhelm borg cubes.

[@athrunzala6919]

agreed, the borg could never withstand a hit from that, they would have to circle it and coral it with their tractor beams until they calculate a solution to deal with it

[@hamhockbeans]

Doomsday machine would swallow the borg cubes whole.

[@OmegaOrdained]

That is a most interesting question. I've often wondered who would win between the Doomsday Machine and a borg Cube. I agree with your assessment, thank you!😎👍

[@UtopianBroadcast1]

Thanks. 🖖

[@darrenbell2220]

The borg would easily ram one of their ships down its throat, just like We did.

[@montylc2001]

True, but i think that particular machine was defective. Why build an impervious hull when you can just lob a grenade into the open door? it had to have had some kind of defensive mechanism or hatch to close it's mouth that had gone inoperative.

[@buckshot_V]

Or a bigger bomb

[@krisgonynor689]

The thing that people need to remember is the the DM is ancient - hundreds if not thousands of years old. It was also damaged and probably starting to not work correctly by the time of TOS. Nor did you mention that the DM had a solid neutronium hull - something no one else in any Star Trek series ever had the knowledge to build or even create. I don't think the Borg's weapons could do much to that, nor really adapt either. How do you attack something made up of one the densest know material in the universe? Nor could they assimilate it - even if it might have had a crew once, so that there would be a operator/machine interface, that would have long ago probably failed or was just removed and used as fuel or repair material for the ship, by the computer or whatever controlled it. The Borg wouldn't even know where to look to find a place to try to link into the DM's central computer. They are not scientists or researchers, they assimilate machine and beings. They would have to do an extensive study to figure out the control systems - doing it remotely while dodging the planet killing beam.

[@Dr.Claw_M.A.D.]

The machine operates by crystalline circuits. Controled by a organic being who links to the computer. Entombed within. Part of the machine. The one in TOS was prototype. Not even full sized. The Borg had thier own antiproton beam weapon. According to STO the heavy hitters use antiproton. Energy shields, armour plating doesn't make a difference. Neutronium dwarf star matter. A teaspoon would weight as much as the Earth. It's simplistic in design and self fueling. The hull is comprised of the densest material known to science and the perfect weapon. Not the fastest or the best tactics. Just runs right through everything and keeps on trucking. Quantum torpedos? Shotgun vs freight train. The subspace jamming will prevent warp bubbles, trans warp corridors and communication with the hive collective.

[@MrChupacabra555]

One of the very first Star Trek novels I ever read, "Vendetta" by Peter David, postulated that the Doomsday Machine was made by some ancient, and since destroyed, alien race to combat the Borg, but the lost, leaving only one of their weapons behind. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendetta_(Star_Trek)

[@XiahouJoe]

yep came here to say this.

[@joshua9396]

2 if you remember the one encountered by Kirk's ship was a prototype, & the Protagonist of Vendetta, Delcara found the operational version

[@davidleblanc5271]

And the hull of the Doomsday Machine is pure neutronium as spock said there was no way to blast through it

[@grovermoore4071]

The Doomsday wins would blow the cube away there would be no assimilation. The are slow adapting example species 8472.

[@Perurikun]

i was thinking that the DM would have a tactical first strike advantage over a regular Cube, maybe even a tactical Cube.

[@congnghequansuvn474]

You seem to know much about Babylon 5, can you make a list of top 10 most powerful single warships in Babylon 5 universe

[@rodan9773]

Id have to go with The Cube. The Borg Cube has. IQ. BATTLE IQ. WEAPONRY. MOVEABILITY. SPEED. TACTICS. HAX. The Doomsday Weapon has. DURABILITY. POWER. SIZE. So ya The Borg Cube wins as far as im concerned. Respect and keep up the epic work.

[@remingtonryder]

I'm honestly not sure what sort of radiation tells the Doomsday Machine to attack a ship. It's possible that after its first shot at the Borg cube, there is barely any radiation signature because all the efforts of the Borg are directed towards regeneration and repair. However, we've seen Borg cubes (in Voyager and onward) that have been disabled beyond repair. It's possible that the Doomsday Machine's first shot or second shot could do this just like Species 8472. In which case, those cubes are eventually stripped for parts and the data from the encounter is analysed to formulate some kind of defence - maybe an anti-Doomsday cube. The main reason why the Borg were unsuccessful in fighting Species 8472 is that they had so little information and assimilation was even more ineffective than their weapons. Adapting to a technological threat, however, is exactly what the Borg do. The Doomsday Machine is a machine with a powerful weapon, yes, but its programming doesn't necessarily extend to thinking three moves ahead. An anti-Doomsday cube would have a resistant outer shell and shielding to take that first and second shot, then would seek to disable the antiproton weapon and possibly also the tractor beam as well, so that it can't consume any more planets for fuel. Then the Borg could study the insides of it for its technological secrets. Since they can just keep sending anti-Doomsday cubes, each iteration better than the last, the Borg would only destroy it as a last resort.

[@aramirez8427]

THE PLANET KILLER FOR THE WIN.

[@slytlygufy]

Yep.

[@deacondavis5098]

The Doomsday Machine Hands Down!!

[@patrickradcliffe3837]

1:27 the prototype planet killer was controlled by a simplistic program when Kirk encounters it. We never found out if it had a subroutine when it encountered the Borg. Firing into the matter conversion reactor is futile as it would be just absorbed as energy. What was conjectured that it was not the raw energy from the impulse engine explosion, but the concusive energy destroyed the reactor.

[@martinbennett8752]

I remember that the hull of the Doomsday Machine was neutronium - collapsed matter - and possibly impervious to weapons. The original was destroyed by overpowering its system when the Constellations warp core was exploded. It is possible that a Borg cube could do much the same sort of thing even perhaps sacrificing one cube to do it.

[@firebird6522]

Wasn't the warp core.... the Constellation's impulse engines overloaded and exploded. There really was no warp core in TOS. If the Doomsday Machine was a TNG episode, then yes, they'd have probably changed the plot to use the warp core.

[@robblerouser5657]

Wasn't the Doomsday Machine constructed specifically to destroy the Borg?

[@ron1788]

In the book Vendetta, I believe the second one is, but I'm not sure about the one from the old series.

[@jasonrodgers9063]

In the TOS episode, it is clearly stated that the Doomsday Machine is from outside our galaxy, while the Borg are clearly from within our galaxy (specifically, Delta Quadrant).

[@mikethornhill876]

Always wanted to see a Giant Borg ship "tactically" seperate into smaller swarm versions of itself when needed.

[@KevinBenecke]

One thing we need to remember about the Borg in the beginning when Q first introduced them to us, the Borg was only interested in assimilating technology. They ignored the people on the Enterprise when the first encountered them. It was later on when the Borg changed t assimilation most likely because they wanted what the Q had to make the Enterprise shoot away from them after they had all but disabled the ship. The Borg probably never encountered a Q before. But they knew it was a being's mind that made the ship zoom away from them the way it did. So the Borg started a assimilating species hoping to assimilate what made the Enterprise shoot away from them. They were assimilating species because they didn't know exactly what the Q were because they never encountered one before. They wanted the ability to teleport and travel like the Q could.

[@stevenlennaman2073]

There was a paperback version of the Borg Vs. Doomsday Machine, where a race made it to fight the Borg, and the small prototype was what Kirk had to deal with. The full-size DDM(s) were pack hunting for the Borg, wiping out worlds and being as bad as the Borg.

[@williamcarl4200]

Good stuff, but if an exploding impulse engine can destroy a doomsday machine, than what would a core breech do to one???

[@MikeD_]

First-strike advantage goes to the planet killer. The Borg cube would have to quickly discover the main weakness of the doomsday machine, which would be unrelenting until it pulverized every part of the cube. The Borg's goal to assimilate could hamper its defense as it would be up against an unusual enemy. Removing the first-strike advantage, I'd give the edge to the Borg as it would likely figure out the planet killer's weakness and would eventually be able to take it offline. So, I guess it depends on how the initial encounter unfolded. A fun thought that never got to play out in any of the subsequent Star Trek series and movies...yet!

[@Tony-rn5fm]

besides , it was anti-PROTON not anti-matter beam, i seriously doubt it could take on entire fleets but it should tear any borg ship apart in a 1v1 fight, spock did say that 1 ship alone can not combat it (the doomsday machine)

[@johngalt4657]

The Doomsday Machine has a neutronium hull. A technology that the Borg does not have. Neutronium is the apex of armor. I think the Borg cube would be toast.

[@rumplebunny]

Lots of dice rolls in this matchup. In its first encounter. the Enterprise-D managed to knock that cube into sleep mode for a while for it to regenerate. The Borg didn't have info on the D's weapon tech so those phasers did massive damage, at first. (Later in the episode, the Enterprise's weapons had zero effect after the Borg learned and adapted.) If the Doomsday Machine got the drop on a cube while it was yammering on about "resistance is futile", that cube's gonna be dinner. An anti-proton beam (absolutely pure!!!!! heh) on an effectively unshielded target... boom, it's gonna be down for the count. Future cubes might fare better if they figure out they can damage it through its maw.

[@daniels7907]

A lot of people don't understand that the Borg's ability to assimilate is not absolute and doesn't work on everything. For example, no matter how many cubes and planets Species 8472 destroyed with their biotech, the Borg still weren't able to adapt. The Doomsday Machine would likely be a similar case.

[@Studio-62]

It was Spock that coined the “Planet Killer” name. That thing has a hull of solid neutronium, so the borg would need to learn the same thing that Decker’s sacrifice taught Kirk, that it can be destroyed from the inside. The borg ship can move pretty quickly, so evasive maneuvers wouldn’t be a problem while they figured out how to destroy it. But if the PK landed one good shot at the Borg ship, it would definitely be damaged or destroyed.

[@BarryH1701]

Borg Cube gets wiped out by the planet killer. It's antiproton beam destroys the cube instantly with no chance for the cube to adapt. Additionally, the shell of the planet killer is pure neutronium which as far as we know cannot be penetrated by any known weapon...possibly not even by a borg weapon. Even the borg may have to think a while to adapt to that type of shielding.

[@galacticroamer3789]

The Doomsday Machine's weapon was "Pure antiproton. Absolutely pure!" According to Commodore Decker. Not antimatter.

[@UtopianBroadcast1]

True, thanks. I put a correction in the captions.👍

[@JackSterlingUK]

Antiprotons are antimatter. Specifically the antimatter counterpart to protons.

[@mattlawler8794]

The only way the Planet Killer can be stopped is if a large explosion inside of it knocks out the main reactor. TNG era Borg wouldn’t be willing to send a cube set on self destruct inside the planet killer. The. Org changed so much in later appearances, it’s hard to say what strategy they would use.

[@Maddie-zv3gv77]

I have been looking for this for a long time. Thank you!!

[@paradoxpaladin]

THe Doomsday Machine was created Specifically to fight the Borg. This was addressed in the novels. The "Initial Overwhelming Force " tactic was adopted from the Doomsday Machine, to the newer Anti-Borg ships.

[@stevensrhester8594]

What would really be cool is if they did a future Star Trek movie in which as if like the Phoenix, the Doomsday Machine reignited and headed into Borg space to deal with the enemy it was designed to defeat.

[@InTime-x3j]

I really like Sci-fi and I do enjoy reading all the Trekkie comments. I think after one attack the Borg if it survived would leave it be being there are no lifeforms in it. The doomsday device has a very simple program to chew up planets to stay running.

[@Star_Jewel_Realm]

They already done that in the novel Vendetta. They fought to a draw.

[@glennmoore6968]

Head to head the Doomsday Device wins. If the Borg studies it say 3 Borg Cubes. First 1 goes in gets destroyed with the other 2 cubes watching. They readjust their strategy and programming just enough to when they second the second sacrifice they learn more of the Device. The third and last Cube comes in from a flanking angle and gets drones on board. After a time of study and the wisdom of the mass of the Borg they eventually breakdown and absorb the the D Device and figure out how to make nearly indestructible ship and possibly drones. Just a thought.

[@richardsaunders9412]

Who would win between Galactist from Marvell and Star Trek's Doomsday Machine?

[@tonyg.3696]

How ‘bout Borg vs V’ger?

[@louiewashere3]

I want to know who would win with the Humpback ship against V-Ger

[@frednone]

The individual who was running the DM in the novel, 'Vendetta' put it best. When presented with the standard Borg response that its actions were irrelevant, she replied, "You're irrelevant." And then one shotted the cube.

[@PShawtx]

In the The Star Trek NG book before dishonor The doomsday machine fights a borg cube and loses. The borg cub absorbs the doomsday machine. A audio book of the story is here on KZbin.

[@unumintusDominus]

Correction: "The Doomsday Machine fires a pure antiproton beam. _That is correct._ While antimatter simply destroys, _anti-protons completely deactivate._ Also, there is the matter of the Planet Killer's hull which is solid Neutronium; a tablespoon of Neutronium on earth would weigh as much as Mt. Everett. That and the fact the Neutronium is compacted atoms, make it invulnerable to photon torpedos and quantum torpedos. It's only weakness is from the inside as the destruction of the Constellation proved. The constellation almost in the maw of the killer, underpowered, without warp fields, was not considered a threat and as such, allowed easy entry. This information would be known to The Borg after the assimilation of federation history records. If faced with an identical planet killer the Borg would need to duplicate a similar scenario of the Constellation bomb, a hidden bomb that poses no apparent threat. But if the Borg cube directly attacked the killer, it WOULD be considered a threat and obliterated.

[@cwill1098]

If the Borg Cube encountered by the Enterprise-D stumbled across information regarding Kirk's encounter with the Planet Killer when the Borg were in engineering, they would have an advantage.

[@DeMan300]

I was wondering if the original doomsday machine was simply left a drift or did Start Fleet salvage it and analyze it somewhere in secret.

[@Ninja-Hayate]

I'm sure Section 31 has it somewhere off prying eyes.

[@michaelpizarro2219]

In Peter David's Star Trek the Next Generation novel Vendetta it explains the origin of the doomsday machine. It's just a prototype. The final design is much much larger. Specifically designed to destroy the Borg. The pure Anti-proton beam completly obliterates the Borg. No time to adapt if you are obliterated. Kirk was able to deactivate the small prototype using a starships anti-matter self destruct detonation. Only because it was the small slow prototype. The final machine used a biological interface making it smarter. As well as infinitly faster than a starship or Borg cube. Loved Vendetta. It should have been the movie after First Contact. Would have been epic.

[@sarrjel]

I think the Dooms Day Machine would win, but I also think that the Borg Cub probably wouldn’t engage the Dooms Day Machine because the Cube would only be observing the machine and try to figure out what it is. There is also the factor that the Dooms Day Machine has the dampening field which disrupted the Enterprises communications and the Anti-Proton beam damaged the warp drive. I don’t remember what kind of power or energy the Borg Cube used to propel it’s ship through space but the planet killer was attracted to the Enterprise’s nacels and the ship couldn’t get close enough to scan the machine’s inner workings. I think the same thing would happen to the borg. The dampening field would prevent the Borg Cube from calling for help and because they wouldn’t be able to scan the machine they wouldn’t be able to figure out how to stop it. The Doomsday Machine would do 1 out of 2 things, it would attack the Borg Cube and damage it’s warp drive and continue to fire it until it was so damaged it would stop showing power much like the Constellation and then leave to destroy the next Solar System or it would ignore the Borg Cube and move on to the next Solar System. Without knowing what kind of power the Borg Cube uses it’s difficult to make an assessment if the Doomsday Machine would pursue the Cube and if it did it would probably eat it. As far as the Borg Destroying the Doomsday Machine. I don’t think they would be able to do it. Kirk was lucky when he took the chance on rigging the Constellation to explode with Scotty. The only reason they figured it out was because of Matt Decker flying the shuttle craft into the mole of the machine and Sulu finding the energy level going down by a little. The Borg wouldn’t play poker with their lives by rigging their cubes to explode and hope for the best. They want to make sure they assimilate planets and aliens to make themselves perfect and suicide really wouldn’t be on their cyborg minds.

[@the_flyattractor8656]

One question would be I think is How Damaged was the DM in that Star Trek Episode? Did that effect its capability to a factorable degree? SO MANY QUESTIONS!!!

[@tomcurda4203]

Was it not deactivated?

[@TheMightyCookieShow]

Isn't this kind of a fight that we actually could conceivably get though?

[@hi-q2261]

This is a good video 👌the BORG would win they have a assimilated Starfleet captains they would know of Captain Kirk's solution

[@grosskopf2779]

If that's the case then how would they be able to destroy it without destroying themselves

[@louisbabycos106]

I read somewhere Guinans species developed the doomsday machine to fight the Borg .

[@marshallweisberg5697]

This would have been quite a good Star Trek movie the Planet Killer VS The Borg VS The Federation. Admiral Picard and the fleet would have had their hands full.

[@richardjordan5036]

Borg does not use shielding this is why the constellation was able to take some damage.the first hit from the doomsday machine on the cube would cause major damage just like the creatures did from the fluid space in voyager.one to two hits and the cube is food for the doomsday machine.as far as the doomsday machine goes you must remember that it can convert and drain energy from the attacking vessel. This makes it very hard to destroy and in the doomsday machine show it power was taking out by alarmed massive anti matter explosion.this is to say could it come back if repaired and that is a good question

[@WillyGilligan]

They were able to disable the doomsday machine from within it. They blew up the USS constellation inside it. The borg would have to do something similar.

[@firebird6522]

The only way to defeat a Doomsday Machine (as far as we know based on canon) is to get something inside its massive maw. Simply firing at its exterior is useless as it's made of neutronium. The clear weakness in the Doomsday Machine is that apparently it doesn't mind something flying right into it. It won't fire at you, figuring you're like Decker and committing suicide. So provided other machines aren't like the Borg and adapt to use new tactics, there's now an easy way to beat them. But would the Borg be able to figure that out? The Feds only determined how to beat it when Spock noticed a minute drop in power levels after Decker's shuttle was destroyed in the maw and Kirk put 2 and 2 together. Would a Borg ship commit suicide to find out something similar? I doubt a Doomsday Machine could defeat a cube because the machine wouldn't know to modulate its beam to overcome the Borg's adaptive shields. The machine only knows its programming, so it would keep firing its beam whether it became ineffective or not. So I think a battle between a Cube and a Doomsday Machine would be a standoff because both sides lack a human being's ability to think outside the box. EDIT: Some folks on here are postulating that since the Borg had assimilated Capt. Picard they would have his knowledge, adding that surely Picard would know of the TOS encounter with a Doomsday Machine. But would he? In the TNG episode Naked Now, Picard didn't know that Kirk and crew had run across a similar problem to what the Enterprise D was facing then. And... we don't know when the Borg would face off against a Doomsday Machine. Maybe it is after Picard's assimilation or perhaps years before. For all we know based on this scenario in the video, the Doomsday Machine came across a Cube on its way to its encounter with the TOS Enterprise and Constellation.

[@earth2006]

Anti proton, absolutely pure. I lot would depend on when the battle takes place, before Kirk encountered it or after. It after and the knowledge in how to kill it was assimilated, that's one thing. Before, the Doomsday machine, hands down.

[@richpontone1]

I believe that the collective hive mind of “The Borg” would win against “The Doomsday Machine”. “The Borg” could direct the Machine into their various interstellar tunnels and transport it into an unoccupied area of their Galaxy to render it harmless to their Empire, especially to the various sectors ranging from Alpha to Delta or other sides. This was like the ancient Romans armies fighting against Hannibal. It was compared to an Elephant which was attacked by thousands of ants. Oh,sure,it could kill thousands, but thousands more ants would take their places to sting and bite the giant animal to death.

[@borusa32]

If I was the Borg I would get the hell out of Dodge as soon as I saw the Planet Killer in my sector.

[@warrenreid6109]

One on one it's the planet killer. But if the Borg ran several cubes using and run type tactics then the Borg would eventually prevail.

[@jamiedunbar1695]

It would be a VERY, VERY, VERY slim margin as to who would win. The Borg could adapt an antimatter shield and find/use weapons that would destroy the doomsday machine. I myself have the novel Vendetta. Even though I haven't read it all the way through. In the original series "The doomsday machine" was my favorite episode. I've always had a love for robots, good OR bad.

[@jimgilbert9984]

I never considered this match up. Hmm... But that you proposed the possibility, it occurs to me that the race that built the Doomsday Machine might have created it to defend themselves from the Borg. Hmm...

[@erikbrantner4295]

I'm not sure but I would probably put my money on the Doom's day weapon.

[@Der0Nibelung]

Maybe without realizing it the show runners made the Borg unstoppable. With the parameters given to them, there's no reason not the conquer the entire galaxy.

[@chriss-nf1bd]

The Borg would win. As it would have all the knowledge of the Federation and other assemulated wolds to defeat and protect itself from the doomsday Machine.The borge would been in nanoprobes to assemulate the device.

[@paramounttechnicalconsulti5219]

The Borg have to take one hit for their reactive shielding to have something to react to. Bad day for Borg

[@ronniejacksonjr5607]

I think Doomsday machine could win against the borg because it's has neutronium alloy the borg can't possibly hit making the Doomsday machine impossible to destroy.

[@kenharrison4704]

The Borg cube could launch a Borg sphere into the maw of the Doomsday machine and detonate it, assuming there is not a Borg shuttle they can use instead

[@paulliscom3963]

I bet the Borg would not truly try to 'fight' the Doomsday device, but rather Assimilate it.

[@iancayce8308]

The combination of its ability to interfere with subspace transmissions and the antiproton weapon hitting the borg collective nods the borg would lose there main ability to communicate and be disoriented in the fight.

[@treyhelms1917]

The tech advancement is too great. The Borg can definitely send a torpedo or mine with a greater payload than a depleted TOS Constitution class starship exploding.

[@gibblespascack1418]

Its strongest part is the Hull which is pure neutronium. Conventional weapons cannot penetrate it, even the borg weapons. A front attack would result in destruction of the energy source in the cube. So the winner is the Doomsday device. Also for the borg, there is nothing to conquer with the machine. No assimilation, thus no need to fight.

[@Jagdtyger2A]

The Zinie sphere od the Enterprise series, had a weapon of similar power level weapon as the Doomsday machine and it was much more agile and faster. I believe that with a minimal crew, its weapon would counter Borg tactics and over power its shields,

[@francislajeunesse8313]

Could the Borg's weapons from a single cube penetrate the hull of the DM, probably not. If one on one battle DM takes the W. But, if against a whole fleet of cubes then the Borg have a chance.

[@jasoncausey1185]

Halo vs Babylon 5. Who would win this fight, The Covenant vs The Earth Alliance?

[@Canoby]

Several sources have retconned everyone's favorite planet killer as originally meant to have been an anti-Borg weapon of mass destruction run amok.

[@Kraigor1701]

I would say that because of the power of the Doomsday Weapon it would destroy the 1st Cube out right and most likely one or two more, after that they would have enough data to be able to adapt to the weapon and then be able to destroy the Doomsday Device

[@specialservicesequipment393]

Don't think the BORG are penetrating the Neutronium hull of the Doomsday machine. They had to detonate a constitution class matter/antimatter core inside of it to shut it down, and the hull still wasn't breached. Maybe if the BORG could transport somewhere inside and start assimilating the computer core the runs it.

[@insanityraging6832]

Can you imagine the Borg reaction to the Doomsday Machine showing up and consuming a planet the intend to assimilate. which they regard as a high value target.

[@richarddobreny6664]

The doomsday machine was created to fight the borg! If it needs planets to feed on, it could have not. One from another galaxy, but was built just outside of our galaxy…. According to a Star Trek novel, and this makes a lot of sense!

[@ycplum7062]

In the "War of the Worlds", the martians were taken down by Earth's virus/bacteria. I would expect the Borgs to use nanites to assimilate the planet destroyer. No need to enter into a firepower duel.

[@Sherwoody]

Since some humans have been assimilated, knowledge of the doomsday machine and its weaknesses are already known. They will do what Kirk did, attack the interior with the equivalent of a large thermonuclear warhead. Also, since a starship was able to survive an attack by the Doomsday Machine, a Borg cube would do better.

[@WilliamKnox-ql3qx]

Seriously? The Doomsday Machine was destroying and consuming entire planets. That makes a Borg cube a Hersheys Kiss for the Doomsday Machine

[@KaijuBiologist]

Been done. In the novel mentioned by other postaers takes out several cubes.

[@VictorReynolds]

The Borg would be toast!

[@leemorgan4037]

Actually you need to read the Star Trek Paper back from the 1990's that address this as the machine was created to go after the Borg & the 1 the Enterprise encountered was the prototype and the real one came later

[@rebeccarebeccaa2515]

I know thry call it a machine but why couldn't it be a living space creature? If it is a machine maybe the original builders made it to be able to harvest planets for it's resources. Maybe the species died and the mane just kept going.

[@user-fb4ci2tv9n]

No simulation battle? 😢

[@RockCrushing777]

what killed the species *8176 * how and why. ?

[@damionparson247]

I don't see any way where the Borg Cube can satisfy its objective by assimilating the Doomsday Machine and it seems that the Cube can only destroy it by using the same tactic used by the Constellation but that would obviously also destroy the Borg so I'd give the edge to the Doomsday Machine.

[@lpdog82]

Starfleet defeated the doomsday machine so I would say the Borg could too, and the Borg can regenerate

[@williamsquires3070]

There’s two main problems both opponents face; the doomsday weapon is a one-trick pony; if the Borg adapt their shielding, then the doomsday machine is out of luck; draw. Neither side can win. OTOH, the Borg are going to find it difficult to penetrate the carbon-neutronium hull of the doomsday machine, and the Borg are not exactly known for thinking outside the box, unlike Matt Decker or Captain Kirk. The Borg would never conceive of the idea to shove a large bomb into the doomsday machine. Again, draw. The Borg can easily outrun the doomsday machine, but not defeat it. The only win here is if the doomsday machine can pulverize a single Borg cube before they can transmit data to the rest of the Collective about the doomsday machine or its anti-proton beam.