Borresson not worth CRAP on the resale market ??

[@dennishaley4443]

Sorry guys, and I love listening to you Mikey, but my X-3's @ street pricing are fantastic sounding speakers....you are right about the feet, though. If you get them off the floor or carpet they are one of the best speakers I have ever heard (40 yrs. in 2 channel audio))...but they need feet to really hear the musicality of these speakers...You could spend 9 K and get a wood box that has no WAF. and don't sound nearly as good.... Most of the people that hear them ( X-3's) love them...What you are talking about is the higher end stuff from Borresen and many others. I would not buy a speaker that costs over $15,000 and my little KLH Model 3's are a kick to listen to. A real fun speaker. The Borresen's are for the "live experience". Keep 'em Coming Mikey.

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

@dennishaley4443 i agree they are great sounding, and "street price" indicates discount, so that's even better. But thier expensive speakers shit the bed in value...

[@timlink7817]

I heard the big Borressons recently at the PAF. I didn't listen for long, but my initial impression was a well balanced sound with plenty of extended bass, not analytical or bright at all, but with some bass muddiness that I assumed was a room problem. Vocals were full and rich, and the soundstage was big. The room was big and the speakers filled it nicely. There were no room treatments in there. The imaging for me was pushed up toward the ceiling, which I also assumed was a room issue. It was a high ceiling and I got the impression of the sound coming from as high as the corner of the front wall and the ceiling.

[@richardr.5177]

This brand has such a broad range of models and types. So many steps to reach “top dog”. This product strategie I don’t understand. To me this strategie feels more like money making then adding real value to the consumer.

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

Agreed

[@j.livingston2201]

Erin did a review of one of their speakers a couple weeks ago and called it like he sees it. A couple days after his review, Borresen put out a statement saying Erin‘s data was wrong, but he took them to school and showed why they don’t understand their own measurements. It was pretty enlightening and nice to see a reviewer stand at his ground against a manufacturer. Meanwhile he had a lot of heat from fanboys and other reviewers. Even your boy big J. Things like that make me wonder just how hard some of these “reviewers“ are shilling for these brands. Especially the guys like Jay, who were going out and doing interviews and getting flown to different places to basically advertise for these brands. The problem really seems to be those dishonest reviewers who are too scared to call it like they see it.

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

@j.livingston2201 there you have it. Follow the money...

[@j.livingston2201]

@ absolutely. Jay and others like The Absolute Sound aren’t reviewers. They’re media with close ties to manufacturers. They should stick to providing industry news and highlights. Calling them reviewers is a disservice to the real reviewers out there.

[@rfoliente1]

The reality is most speakers and other components in this price category take a huge hit on the resale market. It's not just a Borreson problem but admittedly, less mainstream brands take a bigger hit.

[@timlink7817]

Kind of like new cars. Back in the 1990's my friend bought a Porsche 928 that seemed like new to me. It had originally sold for $70,000. The bill of sale was still in the car. He got it for $15,000 and sold it for about the same a year later, luckily avoiding any maintenance costs.

[@carminedesanto6746]

GM☕️🍩☃️☃️ As for Bor’s speakers ..yes,they show well at the shows ..I was impressed with their new C1 Stand Mount ..but not for the money ($20k CDN) .. I’d look at the Fisher’s instead.

[@justkiddin1980]

Ever since Erin published his measurements of the X3’s at the 11K price range with all the resonances and god knows what, things are going from bad to worse

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

@@justkiddin1980 ruh roh !!

[@kjaudio1]

PMC Speakers will change your perception of British brands being soft and polite. Their large active monitors are the choice of top most mastering engineers.

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

@kjaudio1 thats great, but I can't stand mastering studio sound. Too analytical for home listening and for good reason. Thanks for your feedback

[@kjaudio1]

Please listen to a PMC high end speaker.

[@sdavidfreud]

Thanks for telling the truth! Overhyped is the operative word. They could even be good but it has to be a value proposition. You must put speakers through there paces. Play music you know in a properly treated room that you know. They must not be fatiguing and be at least pretty solid on all different types of music. Not per se 'rock speakers' or just good at baroque chamber music.

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

Absolutely 💯

[@garyleeds4470]

Mike, Raihdo had a similar issue when Borreson boys ran things but that is not conclusive as to their current offering. What is surprising is the breath of their product lines (three series in all). I get you don't see Fischer & Fisher Mike but hey its new to the US and not many pairs out there. Nice product though Mike. VSA is a brand I'm leading these days and try and find a pair on the used market. So I'm 100% behind what you're saying about products that stand the test of time. Always enjoy jumping on your chats. Gary

[@vougiedipond6979]

Read some absolute nonsense in my time 😂

[@DavidLemay-j4v]

Hey Mikey, im from Montreal proud owner of Totem Mani2's iso barik design, ever heard of Totems? Thank you

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

Yes, of course...

[@breakoutpete210]

I'm from Faberville north of Montreal Proud owner of Pierre Etienne Leon "Epsilon" speakers, Something like isobak. 👌🎼🔊-🇨🇦✌️😎

[@kingng3443]

Another problem with Borresson is they introduce new models too frequently so hurts used market prices.. Same problem with Aavik and Ansuz ... heavily discounted in used market.

[@Eric-q9n]

Mike, thanks for the heads up!

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

@@Eric-q9n u bet !

[@Pksparty2112]

I was watching a pair of X3 used in your area only a few months old that just sold for half price. Gave them away. Part of the reason I visit used equipment sites to see what’s getting dumped and for how much. You will find a lot of (KZbin Flavor Of The Month) equipment on these sites

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

Yes, that's a great way to get an idea of ACTUAL value and if they are even desirable.

[@54tristin]

You are right about inflation.

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

Right ? It's a corporate gouge opportunity....

[@RHill-d4z]

Probably assists the argument if the brand is spelled correctly in the title, ie Børresen not Borresson. This aside, I have a pair of X2’s, and I think they are pretty reasonable from a value proposition vs other similarly priced speakers. They are 15k in my country (Australia). Having said that, my pair have a manufacturing fault and are being replaced, which is taking too long. But this is largely a dealer issue and not anything to do with Børresen /AGD itself. I agree with a number of points in this discussion as I have heard from a number of dealers (admittedly competing dealers…) I know that the agd / Børresen brand has a bit of a dubious reputation, based on resale and overall desireability of the brands products. I believe the (AAVIK) electronics have as much of an issue, if not worse in this respect. I can’t help but feel part of the problem is (as mentioned in this video) the higher end products ever changing roster of speakers, and the upcharge on sliver cabling on a 200k + speaker ??!1, if your spending this much, it should basically be the best it can be imo. My thought (from a marketing and reputation perspective) would be to follow a traditional hifi sales model, ie pare down the range, stick with it for a couple of years to establish reputation and stability in the brand (if that is possible at this point). The other issue at play here is the the link between Raidho and Børresen. I believe their continual developmental push (new speakers ranges every 6 months) actually has benefits in that the cheaper range that now uses these trickle down technologies can be a good value and performing product. And I still think the x series from this brand is such a product. But they do need to sort out the brands reputation issues, it is a hard enough market to survive in nowadays.

[@craigenputtock]

What is your opinion on R2R dacs?

[@phantomplastics6582]

I have the ModWright tube buffer and it's spectacular. Try it.

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

Glad you're happy. I dont need tube buffers though. They would only take away from my sound.

[@stevejohnson9058]

3 things: 1. Borresson has 75-85% dealer margins. 2. Borresson has Chinese parts (JayAudioLab proved this). 3. Borresson has carefully selected music for demos. So you get them home, play your music in your room, and they sound like shit. That’s why so many for sale for such whored prices.

[@DavidMindyMcGinnis]

You full of it there is not a 75% dealer margin

[@stevejohnson9058]

@@DavidMindyMcGinnisif you’re a dealer, I’m sorry you’re not getting the same margins as the other guys. If you’re not a dealer, than you’re being lied to. Depending on the number of speakers my dealer orders, it’s 75-85%. The pathetic resale of these speakers proves it too.

[@klewja]

@@DavidMindyMcGinnisthe issue is that the person that distributes them in NA is also a dealer. They. Will sell them at almost 50% off new. The guy that has the 12 month financing just happens to be the distributor. They were also the distributor for Raidho and that happened to that brand as well.

[@DavidMindyMcGinnis]

@@klewja please fill me in Who’s the guy that has the 12 month financing

[@klewja]

@@DavidMindyMcGinnis next level hifi in Wayne Illinois.

[@allardvanderstarre]

havent heard borresens speakers; but it would seem its not obvious if they give long term listening pleasure

[@SavageListener]

I heard the Borreson X1 and X2. I preferred the sound of X1 and they both sounded excellent at first but seemed too forward and treble and boomy bass, which is where too much of everything can be just that. Too much. On top of the too much money. It's a great demo speaker because it is so analytical.

[@davidbee8178]

Hey Mikey , , , I saw / heard the Borreson speaks at our Montreal Audio Fest last March - heard them for 10 minutes and left the room UNimpressed :-) The issue was NOT the bass . . . my ears picked up that I'd tire of them within a half hour. Snazzy box and snazzy marketing but the sound quality NOT so snazzy. Even if they were NINETY percent off I wouldn't buy them LOL

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

The proof is always in the listening.

[@davidbee8178]

@@OCDHIFiGuy you bet !

[@caleblin3498]

Thanks for thoughts! I’m curious if you have heard the harbeth m40.3 and your opinion on it , any thoughts appreciated!

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

@@caleblin3498 i have not, I'm sorry !

[@aivTO]

Have you head any electrostatic speaker that impressed you?

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

@@aivTO stacked Quads

[@allardvanderstarre]

well worth of equipement....new asking price is 5x manufacturing cost; so 1/2 price is ok i guess...frankly i dont mind

[@larserikpettersen6658]

Of course they are selling their Borresen demos, both 0 and Z-series are discontinued and replaced with C and T-series

[@staceymangham]

Wassup Mikey Burmeister do manufacture loudspeakers and do complete systems i recently saw a demo with their latest speakers and it sounded very very good, and the brand tends to err on the side of neutrality and relaxed sound opposed to Hi Fi super detailed sound, even the looks are relaxed and conventional except for colour which im sure you have seen anyway. But boy do you pay 😊

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

Then I probably like the brand ! Except I need some sort ov value..

[@wswsn7396]

Borresson speakers are beautiful paper weight.

[@chepassa3035]

Do you think Raidho is better than Børresen?

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

People say it is, but I don't have personal experience with Raidho

[@ganck1147]

Raidho is FAR better sounding compared to Borresen

[@chepassa3035]

@@ganck1147 yeah I think the same way

[@allardvanderstarre]

also expo rooms often dont have the best acoustics i guess

[@ericlo6370]

They said decent , at least at showrooms which is well tuned. But way too expensive...

[@2013brzsubaru]

All the speakers you showed are phased out or in the process of being phased out, of course they would be discounted.

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

Lol. Well it certainly shows you the profit margin, doesn't it ?

[@2013brzsubaru]

@@OCDHIFiGuy True!

[@xeniavader]

honestly, the speakers are dam good. at cap audiofest there were only a few rooms which wow'd me... Voxativ, Borresson were among the best. Funny how bad some of the rooms sounded such as Makario. Cheap used Borressons are great for the end users. There are tons of used Borressons due to the fact they sell a crap load and the market is saturated.

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

Sweet, looks like we caught a Borresen buyer !!

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

Sweet, looks like we caught a Borresen buyer !!

[@martybousum1010]

bro! do you still ride in the wind??

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

@martybousum1010 of course ! Just got a FXDFB with a 131 build.

[@54tristin]

Headphones are good for planes.

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

Totally

[@dcfisdf1235]

WHO MAKES THOSE FISCHER AND FISCHER DRIVERS?

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

@@dcfisdf1235 A GERMAN DRIVER MANUFACTURER.

[@dcfisdf1235]

@@OCDHIFiGuy Nevermind I got the Qualified answer in chat.

[@EricRhodeslives]

Neither is YG

[@54tristin]

They are cool because they are repairable

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

Ok. There's a good reason to buy 😆

[@carlitomelon4610]

Looks like their reputation is in the toilet since they threatened Erin over his review ? Funny, I never heard of them before that 🤔

[@AlphaQ922]

Who is Erin?

[@justkiddin1980]

@@AlphaQ922Erin’s audiocorner youtube channel does Klippel measurements of all kinds of speakers and a subscriber sent in a pair of Borresen’s x3’s…..They didn’t measure great at 11K price point

[@AlphaQ922]

@ Thx .. just checked it out .. I listened to the x3’s previously .. it was detailed but didn’t sound quite musical.

[@3rdeye1983]

Have you heard these speakers?

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

@@3rdeye1983 about 12 times

[@PeterHas]

I haven't heard or seen Borresen speakers in person, but compared against the competition they don't have any brand heritage, and they don't look good enough. Even if they sounded amazing I would absolutely rather get anything else.

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

Thanks for your feedback..

[@pulDag]

6:41 Erin's Audio Corner have X3 at his disposal, they sound and measure horribly. He has been called out from Borrensen and their response was utter nonsense. They measure speakers in "typical room" and that's how they tune sound. Ehm.. Next.

[@mahasidha9]

FWIW Jay interviewed him and he was not embarrassed to say they do not go for linear in room response when building their speakers. He went on to explain why but at that point I tuned out. John Atkinson commented once on the measurements of B & W speakers which had a large dip in the midrange. He observed they have the resources to create a speaker whose frequency response is linear so clearly it’s a design choice. Indeed; good for them.

[@a.s.2426]

Not sure why you are trashing Lampizator based solely upon their $60K DAC. They have many other models at lower prices.

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

Lol. You have no concept as to what a Mikey "trashing" is... this was nowhere near that...

[@a.s.2426]

@@OCDHIFiGuy I've seen enough to know. This was trashing lite. However, criticizing a brand based on the price point of a single model doesn't make much sense. If Andreas eventually comes out with a $60K MPD-1000 DAC will you stop selling the MPD-8? I think your criticism of Lampizator around a tube output section not being desirable on a DAC is much more cogent.

[@54tristin]

Magnapan isn’t dynamic

[@CarlVanDoren61]

Larger panels w subs 😊

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

Crossed over with subs properly, they can punch you in the face..

[@AlphaQ922]

Man U look so much like Mark Ruffalo.😂

[@54tristin]

If you don’t know that almost all audio sol today other than Bose is a lifestyle thing , you are out of touch, with most people

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

That's exactly right. It's called exclusive or bespoke design. I dont particularly like what "most people" have, as it means mass production..

[@anurags19]

Ouch 😂

[@E.Williams-z9y]

Saw and heard Borressens at a show. Good sound but way overpriced.

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

Not X3 however. Great price.

[@E.Williams-z9y]

@@OCDHIFiGuy Price for X3s is very good, thanks to cheap Chinese labor, as we all know. They were showing a pairs of 50k and 100k stand mounts. Not a good value proposition, but easier to move than comparably priced F&Fs. When I downsize in a few years F&Fs are main contenders.

[@QuintEssential-sz2wn]

@@OCDHIFiGuy Why do you say it’s a great bargain? Have you seen the measurements? They have a ragged frequency response.m - a hole in the mid range and dip in the upper mids as well as ringing in the bass that is apparently quite audible. (my friend tried out the Boressen x6 and immediately heard those issues… and measure them which showed the issues). Do you think that shows design competence worth $11,000? How so?

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

@QuintEssential-sz2wn because I listened to them on 3 seperate occasions. Have you ?

[@QuintEssential-sz2wn]

@ No, but they clearly have both measurable and audible issues - a hole in the mid range and ringing in the bass. Erin (Erin’s Audio Corner) caught these issues when he listened to them and then confirmed by measurements, as did my friend who had the X6 at his house (clearly they are voiced the same as the X3), and a number of audiophiles have reported the same issues with the sound. So I’m curious: did you catch onto those audible issues in the design? Would you have mentioned those and describing the sound? I personally would very much like to know about such issues if I were looking at this speaker to see whether they’d be worth my seeking them out.

[@ostapnakoneczny834]

You don't like flashy shit but you have a Ducati.

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

What's the purpose of this comment ?? Be a man and say it like a man.

[@frankd.b.9233]

Why do you pay so much money for speakers, that is the first question, the 2nd question is, if you buy something that costs so much money online and don't listen to it, I think it is your own fault, I don't understand how this can cost so much money, for 6 speakers with a glued cardboard box and a tweeter on 4 feet, and a passive crossover filter, fools you buy speakers that sound good, and if you spend too much money looking at them, you don't need to play music

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

The first answer is, because you can afford it. It's trophy audio for elites,and at 60% off, wannabe elites can pretend they are from the elite class.. next answer is they are built very well. Not a cheap build at all...

[@frankd.b.9233]

@@OCDHIFiGuy your a joke dudes lol;l

[@johntan4835]

Keep being an outlier and more power

[@majtextwriter1794]

Borresen are over over hyped. I was dissapointed about their sound presentation. They did not buy me with partly "authoritative bass". The angeled design is also wrong. What is wrong with many established reviewers?? They are fishing in a mud and reading stories of "great" new materials and special approaches in hi-fi sound reproduction. Erin's finding's are relevant about Borresen. Also Magico was BIG dissapointment to my ears. Two top tier models M9 and M7 on some hi-end gear in two different big rooms. Unlistanable! Maybe great for very old, half deaf audiophile. No wonder why Magico (company) haven't had decided by so far to send Erin their speakers for a test.

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

It's common for hyped brands to not deliver. They NEED the hype to sell.

[@MarkJohnson-zf7jj]

You have quite a few views

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

Interesting..

[@shield-maiden]

børresen and others "highend" brand from denmark 95 % are exportet to the world and not sold to danes wonder why are danes pore ?? nope ....;-)

[@quant2011]

Future borresen speakers will use 3.5 inch woofers - to look more slim! and be priced at $499,000. Reviewers will salivate, hype and use every tactic out there. Few owners of these will trash every DIY speaker out there and all open baffle designs, just to preserve their fragile egos. social media-arent they wonderful invention? LOL

[@pizzaearthpancakesandother2549]

3.5 in woofs with 5 in excursion! Moving hella air!

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

That's what she said

[@quant2011]

high end speakers are mostly marketing bullshit. anyone can build superb speakers for $2k a pair. and for $3k?. using 10 or 12 inch woofers, not 5inch toys

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

I don't think I'd go that far. Good drivers are 1K each.. good tweeters, $800 each.. but some good designers can make great speakers using cheap drivers, it's true.

[@brentf6563]

Off the cuff = not prepared. No editing = wasting the viewer’s time to make a point.