Bose Bought Mcintosh! - Why Reclockers Aren't Snake Oil!

[@photo_n_art]

For those unfamiliar, Brasil speaks Portuguese not Spanish... Just saying.

[@danielwoodard680]

Boa Gia, boa notch.

[@SuperMcgenius]

The American education system explains it all.

[@SuperMcgenius]

In the past, I serviced a lot of Bose Speakers and quality is shockingly poor, I think, by the time the bean counters get through with Macintosh will just be a pretty face and a lot of cheap parts.

[@herbward5240]

McIntosh has had a number of owners since the mid eighties. They were embarrassed when Clarion bailed them out. They more or less dismantled their service department over the years , and their once excellent support for their vintage products has disappeared. All of the old timers left, I got to know many of their original engineers and service techs back in the mid seventies as a Mack service station tech.

[@photo_n_art]

Thank you for your service Sir 🫡😎

[@gregrutter8170]

Melbourne Australia Thursday am

[@NeilBlanchard]

An excellent and informative conversation you two gentlemen had - thank you for diving in! I have known about McIntosh for decades - but I heard their legendary MC275 amplifier (exquisitely restored) for the very first time about 5 weeks ago, on my MLTL-6 speakers (same pair I had at Capital Audiofest) and it sounded very, very good, indeed! Not the last work in bass dynamics, but otherwise everything else was amazing.

[@ScottGrammer]

I found out about Bose buying McIntosh yesterday. The first thing I said was, "McIntosh will be out of business in five years, because their construction will become all plastic."

[@bigd835]

if bose didnt buy them, they would probably be out of business now.

[@herbward5240]

@@bigd835 I took the McIntosh tour many years ago. They do all of the metal fabrication and chassis construction in house and many of the products are contained in High End jewelry quality fit and finish enclosures. The investment in this manufacturing equipment , jigs and metal work punches is considerable.

[@ScottGrammer]

@@bigd835 Better to go out as McIntosh than to go out as McInBose.

[@herbward5240]

AMB Audio has an excellent discussion of clock phase noise and jitter , and why reclocking is essential for top quality DAC performance. They also have some great projects for sophisticated DIYers.

[@ericcrippen8634]

I used to work for Bose... and I replaced the Bose in my Z06 with better speakers and head unit years ago.

[@LelandPratt-nw9ix]

There’s an audible improvement with Audirvāna over iTunes with BitPerfect. For one thing Audirvāna with play DSD, the best audio encoding I’ve heard. Paul at PS audio is right about that. So smooth and detailed, it’s spoiled me.

[@bostownmassive]

Stereotech receivers were designed by McIntosh and made in Japan if I recall correctly.

[@10sassafras]

I love how hifi stupid always ends up with two things: 1. If it’s more expensive it must be made better and 2. It’s all subjective anyway. I also love the claim that experienced ears can hear so much more than can be measured. It’s like how more experienced astronomers don’t need telescopes.

[@Dr.reese_UBR3]

Tell someone to mix a song without experience…. Trust me being able to listen to a song and dissect one is two very very far poles. How do you think people make good songs? 😂 by listening!

[@10sassafras]

@ Sure, musicians use their ears. However, human perception is not a precise way to analyse sound, detect noise and distortion, measure frequency response etc. Human senses have limits… ask any airport sniffer dog. 🐕

[@wassdog1345]

I need to put in my two cents worth please and thank you. First, an excellent conversation. Secondly, I learned along time ago that you can hear the dirty hydro, simply by driving around in your car and listen to an AM talk show. The noise is unbelievable, check out a good intersection or close to a lot of stores. That is what comes to your house. Hydro companies talk short cuts as well, they deliver the electricity but not consistently at 60 hertz. Canada.

[@herbward5240]

Just a important point … if the line voltage drops much below 110 volts, many of the regulated supplies in modern audio equipment will drop out of regulation and the digital and linear circuits will perform poorly if at all. DC to AC inverters ( NOT the cheap ones) can produce top quality , low distortion AC which is free of noise and RF .

[@01010100001010101001]

The main purpose of Cisco QoS (Quality of Service) is to ensure the efficient use of network resources, especially in scenarios where latency arises due to physically distant nodes. In contrast, with much shorter audio cables, where significant buffering is feasible, the need for such latency management is substantially reduced.

[@gebo1103]

I think we just have to wait and see what Bose's strategy is. Some brands disappeared not too long after they were taken over, some others were pumped up with money to improve their research and productivity

[@genkifd]

watch this space - imo bose lname owers the quality names of SF and Mac. therefore audiophiles may take up SF and Mac products with more precaution (slower).

[@herbward5240]

You make a good point re CD mechs. The original Phillips radial arm laser with Direct drive motor , is the laser mech cherished for its mechanical accuracy as compared to the $20 Sony mech with its $1 disc motor and $5 plastic laser mech that warps after a few years rendering the error rate so high that the CD player mutes or will not TOC.

[@buckaroobonsi555]

As somone that grew up with AM, FM, Tapes, and Records errors on CD or streaming is not as bad as most make it out to be. No problem with wanting to make things sound as good as they can but chasing after each and every bit is exhausting at some point.

[@ridirefain6606]

McIntosh still makes a two-channel receiver. The MAC 7200, 200 watts with built in DAC for $8K! That has no HDMI input. You want HDMI? You need to spend another $1k on the DAC2 board. There lies the problem, that is a huge chunk of change for something that should have all the modern connectivity options out of the box. Despite having some wonderful products that are fairly priced for what they are in their product line. Little wonder they need someone to bail them out and cannot stand on their own as a private company.

[@herbward5240]

Depending upon where you live , noise, spikes, and RF can be a reality in audio equipment. Toroidal power transformers are known to pass along garbage due to their higher bandwidth and efficiency than a typical EI core power transformer. A decent filter / surge suppressor really is appropriate.

[@herbward5240]

Reclocking is not snake oil. Jitter and phase noise is real ! The temp compensated oscillators and required interface chips found in the better DACs costs more than a SMSL - 1 which BTW , does improve upon the internal DACs in the Wiim Pro IMO .

[@FrightfulMess]

I've been feeding my DAC into an old forest grandfather clock and it works perfectly! Also, I think they should sell Mackintosh to Apple so we can get rid of the confusion once and for all. After all, 1984 didn't actually show up until Jan TWENTY 24!

[@alexdenton6586]

What are the best active speakers or large Bluetooth speaker of the year ? I need to change my system but there’s to much choices

[@LelandPratt-nw9ix]

Integrated speaker/amps is fine but does nothing for tweaker. Specializing on specific components always ends up with a variety of flavours that will appeal to different people and keeps the technology improving. Putting everything together is called “going Bose”.

[@jamestartaglia7686]

Maybe they will mandate that Mc intosh is pronounced correctly not mac intosh...one is irsh and one is Scottish...😮

[@HareDeLune]

Very educational! Thank you, gentlemen.

[@DarkJeffau]

I have both Mogami rca cables and Mogami balanced in my system.Isolators are another step in better sound too.Also I did some research on coax cables. Some of the plugs on them are not 75 ohm.. they are only 50 0hm.

[@rancosteel]

Acquisition never go well. It usually leads to offshoring and liquidation for tax purposes.

[@Old_Sailor85]

Vintage and pre-Bose Mac gear just got more expensive!

[@granthall3512]

Enjoy the channel! What model of Furman bar do you recommend? Asking for a friend!

[@Feliciano12v]

I can see the next Macintosh product being some form of DSP since that's what Bose can add to the table.

[@AudiophileStooge]

My concern is that BOSE will discontinue the legacy support McIntosh is known for...

[@anonamouse5917]

I would imagine the DAC would have to be very very very cheap to not perform the basic corrective functions he describes. It would cost much less money to buy a decent DAC than a bargain bin DAC plus a reclocker (it would sound better too). edit: I just remembered that data comes in bursts from the internet. If your DAC wasn't buffering and clocking properly, you'd know it!

[@bigd835]

If you havent heard, the entire audio industry is in trouble. Many brands that have been around for decades are at risk of being closed down. the sales arent there to support them.

[@thomaswhitestone8807]

Say Randy, have you ever tried ethernet filters such as the iFi? I'm curious if it is audible. I stream from my modem via ethernet cable to the WiiM. Thought it might be a good review subject.

[@herbward5240]

So yes AC mains are much quieter at night. Industry has giant machines that create BACK EMF that gets into the public power network. Electrical motors of several hundred horsepower are common . Even the neighbors 5 ton Air Conditioner compressor motor can possibly generate some garbage. Light dimmers in the house are notorious for generating garbage.

[@erictheblue7256]

Greetings from Denver, Colorado

[@stephenbarr2735]

My 2000 Subaru Outback VDC had a McIntosh stereo (branded) in it. It sounded very nice.

[@dandyett9588]

greetings from Prince Edward County, Ontario

[@philhenning5602]

Greetings from storm ravaged Seattle!

[@ab7rs]

This is really sad when you consider how Bose has strayed from what they were in the '70s

[@mikecoughlin4128]

I say expand this concept of signal cleaning one level up. Why not clean it as it enters your house? Clean all of your data signal and all of your electrical signal. Internet is easier I assume compared to power at the panel of an existing house. Do some modems/routers do this internally?

[@artureff3046]

Good news. Now I have no problem going Leben and Luxman instead of Mac. Bose is a lifestyle company, which for an audiophile means crap.

[@francescotenti193]

Terrible news! An iconic company making great and unique products since the late 40's and all based in Binghamton, NY, taken over by a consumer oriented enterprise making stuff all over the world, including China. Can you imagine looking at an amp with the familiar looks and logos, then turn it around and see "Engineered in Binghamton, Made in China"! I would literally pass out! I hope the same fate doesn't happen to Martin Guitars, proudly hand crafted in Nazareth, PA since 1833. Another great iconic American Made product except for the very entry level instruments Made in Mexico and quite recently. Nothing sounds like a Martin, and I don't see the reason(s) why big names, like Springsteen and others, use Takamine, made in Japan/Korea, instead of Martins.

[@puddleglumsmusiccollection9151]

Both bose and Mc are overpriced for what you can get somewhere else cheaper for a better product

[@waterlife.1905]

Common sense finally. I agree 100 percent. I own some BOSE cubes. They are fun and boinky with the mid frequencies like no other speaker. Great for jazz and certain albums. I have an older flagship Marantz receiver I got used, a half dozen other speakers used. I like saving money and getting more bang for my buck. My JBL studio monitors are powered and have the famous bowtie waveguide, and they have amazing detail and imagery for an affordable powered monitor. I'm going to get into tube's or class a soon.

[@bigd835]

I bought some old bose equipment and was shocked by how good it sounded. when i saw what it sold for when new, I said they must be out of their minds. wave radios, sound docks etc. just absurd pricing

[@kirkwray1886]

After watching the reclocking video I went ahead and bought the Douk Audio product. Now I'm not sure if it's a case of volume, cause running via the Douk increases the dB vs running via USB, but it sounds punchier and more air. The xmos chip isn't as good as the SMSL so I imagine results would only be better? My use case is Roon>RPI4>Douk>Eversolo Z8. Let me add in previous research I also thought this was Snake Oil and never experimented, but the devices I saw had a cost that reduced my barrier to entry. Definitely not snake oil in my use case!

[@michaelsegel8758]

Reclockers could be snake oil... it depends. If the vendor makes claims or promises and charges $$$$$ most likely snake oil. Also the quality of your components also matters. Better quality components... less likely this would help. (Not snake oil, but not worth it.) There's the issue of jitter and clock accuracy. You can get a better quality network switch that would help. Although its your source clock that can be an issue. Your chi-fi gear is going to be made to a price point. So you may not get the best clocks in the device so this $60.00 purchase may help. The internet isn't going to be the issue. Your connection will already isolate it and more than likely your local source will be buffering it before sending it out to your DAC / Amp. So its your local clocks and network that are at issue.

[@riffraff9000]

Still waiting to hear if this reclocker is better than the Schiit Unison connection. Yet all I hear is crickets...

[@mrpmj00]

UV meters are pretty but useless. i prefer eq spectrum analyzers which tell me what songs work best with other equipments. source=Apple Music lossless quality

[@hocheye]

I believe Bose also bought Sonus Faber😮!!

[@MicheldeGroot-n8y]

So what receivers were made by Macintosh and branded under another name? Can you name some products models?

[@salreda7470]

MIT owns the majority of Bose. So MIT now owns McIntosh

[@robertwoodward9231]

Ahh Bose Fond memories of my 3 year old blowing my 301s..n

[@herbward5240]

So is solar power cleaner ? It’s all about the DC to AC inverter . I suspect the average solar inverter is not ideal but I do know there are inverters made for “ sensitive equipment “ that are very clean , and have rock solid 60hz power frequency.

[@dtracy03ss]

Mac will still be Run by Mac, Just because Bose owns it , Probably won't change anything much !

[@herbward5240]

Early McIntosh receivers were branded MAC

[@denis4072]

Bose will outsource manufacturing to China and made higher models in USA and Italy. Eventually people will adapt just like Bose brand.

[@errolallen5007]

I hope they never change their quality or being mostly hand made. Let Bose stick to speakers and headphones😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@27b-6Buttle]

What if all DACs use a different crystal and PLL circuits for the DAC's clock than any of the USB clocks ?? I think they do because of how much higher the USB frequencies need to be to transfer lots of data over 2 wires.

[@MTerrance]

I use a UPS to provide power to my PC. Does this filter any fluctuations in the power supplied to the PC?

[@AudiophileStooge]

the MAC receivers branded "MAC" and not McIntosh are the ones you're talking about

[@NosEL34]

If you have the bread or the opportunity you should try the Innous Phoenix USB reclocker ..Oh My!

[@guestgoogle4979]

I love you both, but respectfully, I didn't hear anything technical that demonstrates or explains why using the SMSL re-clocker would be superior to going USB directly into a good DAC. If you think the SMSL has a more consistent clock than your more-expensive DAC, then fine; to each, their own. But I would argue that your J2, upper tier Schiit DAC, etc. has a clock at least as high-quality and consistent as the SMSL PO100, likely better. Any unresolved latency or corrupted data resulting from the USB connection would equally affect the re-clocker as it would the DAC that's receiving the USB signal directly from the source (not to mention that serial controllers have gotten so good in the past 10+ years with plenty of buffer and redundant error correction that I highly doubt that would ever be a problem unless you're using literally the crappiest USB cable on the planet). Unless you do a randomized, double-blind A/B comparison and show that you can reliably discern the [Wiim/USB -> SMSL PO100/Optical -> DAC] from the [Wiim/USB -> DAC], I'm going to have to claim sighted-listening-bias. Nevertheless, great livestream, and keep the awesome content coming!

[@scottmelneal]

What's the name & model number of this re clocker?

[@cpodurnell3701]

Well, it was a good run.

[@photo_n_art]

Finally there will be meaningful technological improvements in McIntosh lineup (evil laughing) 🤣

[@herbward5240]

Howdy from the gold coast of CT

[@njlauren]

Bose invests in its technology and is not some Chinese company buying a famous name and then producing cheap crap with the name on it. The Chinese tried to buy Steinway pianos , and their intent was to make them in China using cheap labor and charge a lot for them. That is what happened to Yamaha pianos, they were once a rival for Steinway,now they are a cheap mass produced piano.

[@LelandPratt-nw9ix]

What does Bose make in the US? Some Chinese companies make good stuff.

[@artureff3046]

@@njlauren here in the UK Bose is crap.....

[@ericcrippen8634]

Bose pays Chinese companies to design, build, and slap the Bose logo on those products.

[@njlauren]

@LelandPratt-nw9ix Chinese companies in general are not known for quality production, no one is going to confuse them with Japan. Their model is not quality production, it is using cheap labor to produce stuff using methods from like 1900. I have a tube amp that was made in China, but it was a higher end unit designed by a European company and hand built.

[@njlauren]

@@ericcrippen8634 No, Bose designs the stuff here. Unless they have changed in recent years ( which is possible), being a private company they don't have the public company mentality and used to spend a lot developing new products and they also spent a lot of time on quality ,at least back a bit ago. It could be some beancounters took over, wouldn't surprise me.

[@piotrrzeczycki5257]

Dobry wieczór z Warszawy…😎

[@stephenwells5570]

MAC was the name on the receivers.

[@mbvx7]

wow that's terrible. I won't be buying Mcintosh, ever. hope bose doesn't think it will maintain the same crowd that used to buy mcintosh.

[@toddclarke1580]

Bose bought Mac , so they could close the competition lol

[@off2geo]

What goodness shall become of this amalgamate?

[@danielwoodard680]

Imagine how much money Bosentosh will save by gutting the old McIntosh chassis and installing chinesium

[@JR-ho5qm]

Did you see Masimo is trying to sell off there Audio brands? Polk,Dennon,Marantz. Etc! They are in financial trouble

[@atzeotze2256]

No highs no lows. Must be Bose. Or is MacinTose…

[@stuartshannon8141]

Should I get my Audio Alchemy DTI from the top of the closet?

[@stephenwells5570]

QOS is needed for VOIP.

[@s.daniel9224]

Is the audio world considering what/if the trump tariffs will increase prices?

[@silkhead44]

who cares...macintosh sells at most 1000 units of anything they make

[@brannonmcevers1854]

People are tired of audio charlatans that have no technical expertise telling them what to buy

[@MSiAventador]

O - M - G ! 😧

[@Telrobypas-wx5vc]

Sonus faber