Pin Leaves Explained: What Your Pin Leaves Are Telling You

[@soaplesstv]

Going from strongest to weakest, hitting it on the same spot to show downlane ball reaction. Much appreciated.

[@pimphandslik]

ive been bowling less than a year. how long does it take to start understanding all the ball motion talk?

[@aagreatmatt]

@@pimphandslik Best way to learn about your motion is to video yourself. What you are seeing here, is the bowler trying to get the best driving motion "Splitting the 8-9". Most of league bowlers don't really pay attention to how the ball continues through the pocket. They just think it hit the pocket, it should have struck. The "perfect strike" is when the ball enters the pocket, and goes pretty much between the 8-9 in the back. Or at least somewhat in the middle of those 2 pins. Doesn't mean you won't strike with other hits, but the carry percentage on that hit, is the best you can get. Its not where the ball enters, its more of where it finishes. Good luck.

[@Rebellgentleman]

I think a video that would show a ball hitting the pocket and show a flat ten pin leave, a wrapped ten pin leave, and then a four pin leave, with the explanations/reasons behind such leaves, would be invaluable information to many bowlers. A lot of people don't realize there is a difference behind a wrapped ten pin and a flat ten pin leave. Some don't understand the reason why a 4 pin is left after what seems to be a pretty good shot. If there was a video showing the ball's initial entry angle and deflection in the pocket that results in these one pin leaves , and then the solutions to resolve leaving these spares, it would help a lot of people...especially those who are beginners wanting to better their strike shots.

[@BowlMOTIV]

Sounds great, definitely something we can make!

[@fetiv]

@@BowlMOTIV Please make this 🙏

[@aagreatmatt]

It's a simple action. Split the 8-9 and strike percentage will be as high as any other hit. Video your shots, and learn how your ball is finishing through the pocket. Its actually, as easy as that. Hard to keep that in mind "especially on house" when all these juiced balls help make up for "ok" hits

[@thomaswebb712]

Love to see a lot more videos like this to help up make adjustments and ball change instead of being blind to what’s happening. Thanks

[@primaljackal]

Title is a little odd considering he left one single pin spare in the whole video. This is more of a lesson in continuation and getting your ball to go through the pins properly.

[@kylemc8851]

Thanks Guy!

[@mattr6892]

To be fair if you leave anything else it’s usually that it went high or didn’t have enough entry angle

[@BowlMOTIV]

you're right. We started off as a video about pin leaves and then he didn't leave a lot of pins. But we felt like there was a lot of great information being shown so we kept going.

[@Jackal_Blitz]

@@BowlMOTIV Nick's just too damn good to leave spares. We get it.

[@pimphandslik]

@@mattr6892 can you explain what you mean by "went high" and "entry angle"?

[@traveling.down.the.road56]

This video must be for advanced, or professional bowlers only, because I didn't understand hardly anything he said, and the video didn't help me understand why I leave the ten pin, or six & ten pins so often. That is what I was hoping to learn from watching this video. I'm a 68 year old who just returned to bowling after 35+ years of being unable to bowl, due to injuries and two partly failed back surgeries. I had only bowled a couple years in leagues, prior to my injuries, so my bowling experience is limited, but I'm just happy to be able to bowl again, after such a long recovery time. I bought a new Storm Hyroad pearl to start bowling again, but could not get it to hook much, so a couple months later, I bought the new Harsh Reality, and a few weeks after that, also bought the "Hook in a box", Hammer Black Widow 3.0. My average went from 155, to 167 with the Hyroad, then jumped to 187 with the Harsh Reality, and now in the Summer league I'm at 198, usually using the Black Widow 3.0 as the first ball out of my bag. I bowled a 280 during practice within the first 10 days of having the Black Widow 3.0 drilled, and started the next game with two strikes, for a total of 12 strikes in a row, so now I'm hoping for my first ever 300 game in the next year or so. If anyone can help me avoid leaving so many ten pins, I would appreciate the advice.

[@DS-qz2gu]

If you’re 68, it’s safe to assume that you don’t have a very high rev rate; 10 pins are just naturally going to happen more often to you than they will to a higher rev bowler. Honestly my only recommendations would be: 1. Practice, try to be more accurate. Again, you’re going to have a smaller pocket than a higher rev bowler, so you need to hit your mark spot on. It kind of sucks, but we just need to focus on accuracy more than strength. 2. Get a really strong ball and get it out as wide as you can. In my experience, when you have low revs especially, getting more angle into the pocket will generally make your pocket bigger. I’ve had the most success moving pretty far left and getting it out to the right gutter with rotation close to 90°. I’ve tried the 3.0 and I loved it, but my go to is the Hammer Effect. A problem I run into is my ball making a left turn too early, but the Effect always pushes through oil and hooks super late and super strong for me, which is ideal. Also, I’d recommend watching PBA50 tournaments if you’re interested. I’ve learned a ton from seeing how other low-rev bowlers respond to certain lane conditions and specific leaves.

[@traveling.down.the.road56]

@@DS-qz2gu Thanks for the detailed reply. I’m learning as I go and watching lots of bowling videos. You are right that I have a relatively low rev rate, but with practice and a few lessons, I’m starting to increase my rev rate by having a better release and staying under the ball. My Harsh Reality and Hammer Black Widow 3.0 are hooking more now and forcing me to move left. On some lane conditions I have thought about switching to my Hyroad pearl, because the HR & BW3.0 are hooking so much I have trouble not going Brooklyn every shot. But I usually just keep going left and increase my speed to get back to the right side pocket. So I don’t think low rev’s is my biggest problem anymore, since buying the Harsh Reality and Black Widow 3.0, but maybe I need to adjust where I think the sweet spot is in the pocket, to get less ten pin spares?

[@Jackal_Blitz]

Ten pins are all about entry angle. Typically it means that the ball is going too forward and not continuing into the pocket enough. The 3 pin gets pushed back, which kicks the 6 to the side wall, and the 10 remains standing. There's no one-size-fits-all fix to the issue though, because it's all going to depend on the lanes you're on, your rev rate, your speed, your equipment, your layouts, etc. In general though, you want the ball to start up a bit earlier and hit the pocket higher to avoid 10-pins. That may mean moving left and hitting the dry sooner, or it may mean increasing your speed and not trying to hook it so much. You'll have to find the root cause of your exact issue is before you can make adjustments.

[@traveling.down.the.road56]

@@Jackal_Blitz Thanks for your advice. I’ll schedule another lesson with the local PBA member, or the pro shop owner if the PBA member isn’t available, and ask them to watch where I’m hitting the pocket and ask what they think is the best solution.

[@jesse75]

I'm 66. Went to a 14 pound ball. I bowled in league last night. Hit the pocket every frame. Yah just don't always get a strike. I've experimented. Through the ball hard with less hook carries better than slower and more hook. Straight ball will carry more 4 pins than the hook ball. You just have to read the lane, be accurate and experiment. My first two games were only in the 180:s. Third game , 239. I just kept at it till I could get it to work. I'm a 215 average bowler. Last night, bowled a 604. My average will drop couple of pins. You have to keep at it and experiment.

[@jeremyriekengvfffvnxs.alli8348]

The exact type of vids we need. Thanks, Nick!!

[@dennisgrube455]

A lot of great information on how to make adjustments based on continuation of the ball!

[@HollowFaith666]

The pins are telling me to just give up

[@ambiarock590]

All those 10 pins still haunt me in my sleep

[@Torgo1969]

I'm about to go Full Skeletor out on the lanes pretty soon. I CURSE YOU, TEN PIN!

[@jesse75]

​@@Torgo1969 one thing. The ball has to roll through the pocket, not skid. That's first. Then the angle.

[@philmartin4863]

lol good one they tell me that too sometimes

[@philmartin4863]

@@ambiarock590they come marching at me like a platoon of soldiers lol

[@roughrosa]

A good video. Thanks. I am planning just to buy Motiv balls at this point to complete my arsenal so this info is handy. I would love to see more vids on adjustments based on just one ball by looking at pin leaves and deck exits. And probably another series on ball up and ball down like this one to achieve the perfect ball exit on the same pattern. A new knowledge to me from this vid is that even the weaker ball can be played on the same pattern by further moving left, provided that it has the same shape. I thought it will just miss the pocket and break point totally, and even if you try to adjust, the angle and margin of error can never do you justice. It’s the path to horror splits you can never recover 😅 I might be wrong here but I’m willing to be entertained if that’ll improve my game.

[@TSTB]

pin action is so quick ... so I have to pay more attention. good vid. thanks.

[@treau3131]

Thanks for this video, I struggled last night in league because the balls I used were burning up their energy before they got to the pocket. In on sequence I left a ten pin, strike, seven pin, 9 pin, ten pin, strike then an eight pin. I no longer own a pearl ball. I will look into them and see what I could find. This may help my game a bit.

[@lenbahr6800]

Ditto on primajackal's comment. Was thinking the same about the lessons title?!?

[@aagreatmatt]

Just curious, The Evoke didn't deflect very much. In fact was right on the 9. You didn't try to move any and attempt again like the others, just wondering why? I did think the Thrill drove the most off the spot, just was wondering why no adjustment with the Evoke?

[@fr33ko]

Even with the 10 pin leave and then the tripped 4 right after, there is a lot to be learned from shots like those. The 10 pin leave was more a bad break than anything else since it was a wrapped 10. The six lay in the gutter or goes over the top will leave you with different information with how to adjust.

[@paulp8937]

Very useful video! 👍

[@Jeremythetornadofan]

I’m born and raised in Grand Rapids mi I moved to Hudsonville in 2003/04 and moved last year to New York I miss home

[@SargeUSMC]

All well and good, if you've got an unlimited budget for bowling balls. Most amateurs usually don't have more than a couple of balls at their disposal. What would be more helpful would be something about how to adjust - using the same ball - when you keep leaving the same pin. Because that's the only option most of us have. Or are you suggesting that someone with only one ball just has to live with whatever leaves they get that day?

[@machinethesun9243]

First you have to train your eyes to watch the ball go through the pins. If you aren't watching you can't make adjustments. Stop watching for strikes, and instead teach yourself to read ball motion or you won't know why the ball is not giving you strikes when it looks like your are hitting the pocket. It's about knowing when to make adjustments and what adjustments to make. More advanced bowlers can do a lot with releases with less rotation or more, and they can control speed, so they can do a lot with one ball if the cover and core match up to the environment. Most league bowlers probably need 2 or 3 balls. I bring one asym solid, one benchmark, and a plastic ball since its only 3 games. The 2 reactive balls play off each other.

[@Kevboy888]

Exactly

[@RobertArmstrong-xm9zg]

Great great video..haven't seen anything like it

[@bowlingxp8345]

great video !

[@dmo8921]

I wish I would have followed in my father’s footsteps instead of going down the bowling rabbit hole 6months ago at age 46 😢

[@skinniestjeans]

This is the perfect example of why KZbin is misinforming bowlers every day. A video about pin leaves without pin leaves that does nothing except to advertise a few balls. This is probably also the worst explanation of ball motion I’ve seen on KZbin.

[@BowlMOTIV]

Absolutely disagree with you. I said in another comment that we shot it in a single take and Nick didn't leave many pins standing, but I felt Nick did a great job explaining how he was seeing the balls go through the pins. For example, on the first shot with the Evoke, he saw it deflect a bit. Sure it struck, but that wasn't the optimal motion through the pins and he explains that he would make a move or ball change off of that.

[@brettrobbins2707]

@@BowlMOTIV i agree here as well, good bowlers make adjustments even off of strikes, you don't need to leave a pin to make an adjustment, but at the same time the video should have been on pin leaves while a different video should have been on motion through the pins

[@BowlMOTIV]

@@brettrobbins2707 that's fair. It turned out to be more about making adjustments based on ball reaction and what he was seeing as the ball went through the pins. Even though it originally started as a video about pin leaves. Sounds like we need to make part 2 and focus on different pin leaves!

[@tracy2.]

@@BowlMOTIVi think it would be better if you use a bowler with a lot less skill😂

[@anthonydorazio9650]

Nice tips .Thanks.

[@Kevboy888]

This is a good video for people that have lots of high-end balls apparently. I was hoping he might say move up or back or left or right based on what the pins are doing. His comment, go to one of the other 400 dollar balls you don't have in your bag in order to not wrap the 10 pin....

[@mysiblingsareonmyaccount]

I left 278 ten pins in my league last yr. I hardly ever leave 8 or below. I’m hitting the pocket good with all my equipment but what in the world do I need to do to kick the ten out? It’s a solid ten at that with the 6 pin keep wrapping around it. Every game I leave at least 4-6 ten pins a game.

[@Sgt_Strikes]

Good lesson

[@MrYuk-lm3xp]

The pins are telling me to quit bowling

[@runnerboy6886]

Moreover, what the ball is doing as it travels down the lane and exits the pin deck will tell you a lot.

[@BowlMOTIV]

absolutely!

[@GregoryZucco-z6m]

A bowler I knew said Kick 10's don't lie, my favorite strike was blowing out the 5 and 2nd favorite was kick 10's, I had one 300 where I ripped the 5 and another with a kick 10 on the final shot. Flush Strikes are too boring.

[@MrSmoothbass]

That was tight

[@asphalt8wierdthings691]

3:38 Kris Prather Reference from 2020 TOC

[@franknowak5419]

Maybe you should show the pin position and drilling pattern

[@Mxbulldog226]

I guess I've been under the misconception that when you move left or in my case right being a lefty that you want a stronger ball to gey all the way back to the pocket with 🤔

[@pchong312]

Depends on what you mean by stronger ball. More traction front to the back of the lane or left to right hook? In general bigger asym solids are most likely to burn up and not make it back to the pocket if you play too deep because they grip the lane immediately and dont have much left for the second half of the lane. They also don’t react super quick off the dry compared to weaker pearl cover stocks which is often referred to as left to right hook type of ball reaction.

[@brettrobbins2707]

A lot of people don't understand the whole markets idea of strong vs weak, newer or not learned yet bowlers tend to see if the ball hooks at the friction a ton then its strong where its actually the opposite, Strong balls have high flare and turn themselves in the oil in the fronts to get themselves ready with a more rounded shape and roll into the pocket. Weaker balls barely flare and just slide straight through the front saving all their energy for when they reach the break point and hockey stick shape into the pocket, the overall hook is determined from front to back not left to right. The weaker the ball the more they tend to snap harder and harder off the back but at the same time can glide through the front thats burned up where strong balls will over hook the dry front and just have no chance anymore down lane because they used up all the energy already. If its too much of a concept early for you i would suggest just sticking with hybrid balls or go the crazy route and buy one really strong solid and one really weak pearl. that would immediately show you the difference in ball motion

[@trae1965]

The problem with videos like this addressing Lane and pin literacy, is that they don't spend enough time, or anytime at all, addressing skill & technique adapteations. The beaming covert message here, and who can blame Motiv, is: buy our balls.

[@luigimontefusco3773]

just wondering what happened to bowling? you now need a dozen balls to compete? does skill have anything left to do in this game?

[@DrakeLavenderZXShorts]

Nice!

[@patrickwall8517]

When making a move or a ball change be sure you're adjusting off of a good shot.

[@enterpriseassurancefinanci4630]

I guess we will need an arsenal of bowling balls😂

[@MarkDavidBlack]

Good intentions.

[@rudraigh]

What is it with bowler's love of lingo/jargon? I've been bowling since I was a child (I'm in my 60s) and I can't understand 80% of what you're saying!

[@ryanborn595]

I agree like trip 4 flat 10 or what was it wrap 6 just need a video just for the lingo

[@Juan-ll6sf]

It's not the ball that makes you miss the pins. Is the hand that releases the ball. Ok?😊.

[@JimE419]

Wait! What? Did i accidentally fast forward thru the pins that were left? I saw only one 10 pin left. And I'm not sure what the advice was as he was making changes on all the strikes too. Someone please translate into amateur league bowler speak.

[@LadyPcklr]

I would recommend using less bowling jargon. I would guess that many people watching these types of videos are newer bowlers and don't really understand some of what you are saying...at least I didn't.

[@Torgo1969]

Two minutes in and there have been zero pins left to discuss. Must be nice!

[@kevinricks8232]

Never explained your topic of pin leaves. More of ball choice to pocket.

[@BowlMOTIV]

that's fair. We shot this in a continuous shot and he didn't leave many pins standing so it ended up becoming more of a video about understanding ball motion through the pin deck

[@kvdgadj]

Not everyone can buy two or three new bowl balls. Beginner buy a straight ball first?

[@cybersteel8]

Kinda weird to have a video about pin leaves and not leave any pins. Nothing was explained about pin leaves lol

[@BowlMOTIV]

we set out to make the video about pin leaves but kept striking lol. BUT there were definitely strikes that weren't ideal. So the video should be very helpful in understanding ball motion through the pins and the moves you should make off them.

[@thebriangroves]

They're telling 2 handed betas to put their thumb in the ball 😅

[@louiscornale5667]

Bar open😅

[@donaldconsole9695]

If it's an advertisement for motiv balls just say it

[@ianhawkins1221]

It’s the motiv page… do you expect them to throw storm? Dumb comment

[@donaldconsole9695]

@@ianhawkins1221 lol Jesus. The expectation is that it's not an ad for balls in general. Dumb comment

[@rayxtwo]

If you think a different ball makes you a better bowler, you're not a very good bowler

[@deanhaswell1115]

All depends on how often you leave a certain pin. And all depends on the lane condition. And what not keep it simple for the average bowler. Seems to me you use a lot of technical speaking words to show how smart you are. So many bowlers have no idea what you are saying.

[@RapIsDeadly]

I'm old school...I still use a rubber ball...daburnet...damn kids these days and their flashy technology