Can This Model Rocket Land More Than Once?

[@Sonderax]

What launches first. BPS Starship stack or the actual starship stack?

[@Real28]

Better question: BPS Starship or Artemis?

[@lucasrozanski6404]

@@Real28 LOL! I dont think Artemis is ever going to launch. The Starship Human Landing System will probably get to the Moon first.

[@gierdziui9003]

the REAL race xdd

[@wolfgangpreier9160]

@@Real28 Who reaches his goal first? Artemis to the Moon or Space-X to Mars? Everything else is trial and error, fall down, stand up and continue after taping your boo boos.

[@kerbodynamicx472]

idk. But it seems that BPS will get to orbit before Blue Origin does

[@Srfingfreak]

Sir I believe you may have passed beyond "amateur" rocketry, and I am an engineer. Your SRB based soft-landing has significant impacts in drone and rocket based cargo delivery.

[@nocare]

I know you used quotes but amateur is mean to signify why you are doing work rather than how good you are at it. Same as professional but opposite. Expert vs inexpert, or Expert vs unqualified are suppose to be about experience. They have definitely passed beyond inexpert and are on the way to an expert in small scale rocketry.

[@biosdilt1399]

@@nocare He's doing it for youtube which is his job so technically it probably counts as professional rocketry :D

[@reezlaw]

Significant impacts? Not good!

[@vitorstreetboys]

Aqui no Brazil voce pode ser o Elon Musk mas sem certificado eles nem te ouvem, e não é uma piada

[@SpaceBird_Aerospace]

Imagine he starts delivering packages with scout... hehe

[@OrangeDurito]

That transition for the OnShape sponsorship message was sooooo smooth. These little things are icing on the delicious cakes that are your videos. As a master’s student specializing in control systems, the way your approached the flight control is so inspirational. It’s one of the prime real life examples I have seen where you iteratively tweaked the parameters to make it more and more robust. Thank you for being a great teacher. So excited for the upcoming projects!

[@Indonesia01ian]

Hi do you know what forum that discuss and share about flight control? I am really interest and want to learn from basic 0

[@OrangeDurito]

@@Indonesia01ian The fundamentals of control theory is same for all sorts of applications be it industrial robotics or model rockets. Only the system dynamics, objective, and environment change, so you have to adapt your controller to effectively work in that scenario. If you are an absolute beginner, start with Brian Douglas’ control system lectures and study about classical and modern control theory for Linear Time Invariant systems.

[@ianjohnson1009]

Dude your commitment is insane. I gotta give it you man. You're amazing

[@Francois_L_7933]

For the Big Scout, you can actually remove the springs from the RC car shock absorbers. If they are the oil type (not the friction type), you will get a nice long travel linear damper out of them. They're also easy to take apart and sometimes have a set of discs that can vary the dampening effect.

[@dyo-senpai9532]

THE STARSHIP MODEL IN THE BACK LOOKS AMAZING! CANT WAIT :D

[@RichTheNoun]

Imagine what this world would be like if everyone had this kind of work ethic, drive and dedication...

[@captain61games49]

Idk I have none of those things

[@NanoTLG]

It’s called China 🇨🇳

[@LeonoraTindall]

And a huge Patreon community

[@yhwh5568]

@@NanoTLG they do look rather dedicated on genocides in their owm country and mine so, gotta give them that.

[@the_chomper]

*time

[@Spaceflightinc]

Congratulations on the first landing! Can't wait for more flights! As always keep up the outstanding work👏👏

[@Peardud]

hi man!

[@rocketcello5354]

Fancy seeing you here

[@Peardud]

sfs and ksp? Oh yeah!

[@Spaceflightinc]

@@Peardud KSP Coming Soon

[@Peardud]

@@Spaceflightinc Nice! I don’t even play ksp

[@loopie007]

Many years ago when I was racing indoor RC cars, we also felt the need for dampers. For us, we used a solid rod (nylon) that fit inside another nylon tube. Then we put various thicknesses of silicon grease on the rod/tube to create a lightweight simple damper. After each race, you had to disassemble, clean, and regrease. You should easily get 3~6" of landing gear movement. Also, point the landing pads with the outside edges pointing up. You want to land on your heels, not your toes. Your rocket is stumbling on touchdown. Practice in the house dropping the rocket from .5m with a slight swing to practice landing. Use your camera at high speed to review exactly what is happening. Check the flight data recorder to review and adjust the damper length and thickness. Currently, your dampers have such little throw, they almost do nothing.

[@mduckernz]

When you do a larger version of this, I hope you will consider putting in a cold gas thruster system to correct attitude on landing :) would allow you to fix those tilt and asymmetrical leg loading problems! You could use a butane gas canister if your rocket airframe is relatively heat resistant (I foresee the exhaust igniting it lol) as they are not so heavy for the gas volume unlike CO2. Using a heater circuit will allow for flashing liquid butane into gaseous to give you a good thrust level!

[@маратаминев-в6з]

I think legs problem is - small sizes . Legs sizes smaller than the height of the rocket (>h/2). And it is dosent fixed to center of the rocket by support legs lines. To remove F-lever legs must looks like umbrella mechanism (with support lines).

[@Henning_S.]

Use propane instead of butane, it has more pressure and therefore produces more thrust, so you just need half the amount of gas and you can save weight. But it think using shock absorbers with a lot more travel may also solve the issue

[@FlyXenonRC]

Heavy

[@jerry3790]

@@Henning_S. Plus Butane is a bastard gas!

[@Rulerofwax24]

I met Joe a few weeks ago and he was great to talk to. The upcoming projects sound so interesting and I can't wait for new updates to come out.

[@Nightsd01]

You might benefit from the VL53L1X - which is a very tiny laser rangefinder chip. I am in the Bay Area and I could help produce a PCB for you with wiring (for free :) that would allow you to hook it up into a small JST connector or something, it just uses an i2c bus. This way you can give your flight computer very highly accurate altitude data when it is about to land

[@calloutman]

What about the giant plumes of smoke in the way? I don't think that would work. Maybe an external low latency camera could track it down and forward its position estimate.

[@nocare]

@@calloutman Generally the smoke is diffuse enough to not be a problem. The smoke has to be thick enough that multiple pulses return shorter values. Now the VL53L1X is only a 50hz chip max so yes its more susceptible to interference including just general IR emissions from the environment. Which reduces max range and accuracy I have used the sensor before and its best not to push it past 3 meters. However even a 3m/9.8ft range is long enough given BPS needs, there is more than enough to sacrifice some range by measuring at a slant. The weight of each sensor is also so low that multiple can be easily used for redundancy. If the mass budget grows and speeds increase there is also large lidars like the lidar light 3 hp that reliably get 40 meters at 5000hz and still even that unit only weights 38 grams including its housing, and is cheap at 150 USD.

[@Nightsd01]

@@nocare that is a really great point. One other idea could be to use RTK GPS to get centimeter level positioning. I don’t know if it would continue to work at the distances and accelerations of a rocket though. But ground stations you could possibly calibrate to the launch pad and if it lands in the same spot it should know within a centimeter where the ground is.

[@ricardodealmeida5485]

Yup VL53L1X is an excellent suggestion. Easy to interface, and you can change some settings with the sensor arrays to suit your requirements.

[@kamesh.s9]

What programming language does he use

[@baptistedruaux8239]

Huge congratulations for the Scout programs! The flights look so smooth now. Can’t wait for the next flights!

[@apmiller77]

Bravo to all of your efforts. As someone who designed, built and launched a simple two stage home-made (i.e. not a kit) rocket with a mouse payload, with heart rate radio telemetry, in my High School Physics class in 1972, I’m amazed at what you’re doing.

[@drhugobr]

The RC shock absorber will work for you! You just need to put oil in them. They always comes dry. But once you put oil in it they stop being "springy"

[@radicalgale]

Great to see you moving to a different project right after you've successfully achieved a proper landing! I'm sure the Starship project will have you busy for a long time. Definitely not 7 years though lol. You've come a long way - this project should be much easier with all the knowledge you have now. In the long run though, are you going to make a liquid rocket engine? I'm not talking about a 'real' one with a turbopump and everything, but you could make a pressure-fed engine pretty easily nowadays, considering the fact that metal 3D printing is widely available and so are carbon-composite high pressure tanks. Obviously you can't achieve this now (or maybe you can, who knows!), but in 2-4-6 years you could have enough income to actually make a liquid fueled model rocket. Maybe even SpaceX would finally recognize you after all these years of trying to get a job there.

[@rocketcello5354]

The biggest issues with liquid engines are that the propellants that give you easy engineering, are a pain to get (Hydrogen Peroxide, RFNA), and the easy to get ones are a pain to engineer (hydrocarbon/oxygen stuff, it gets hot)

[@radicalgale]

@@rocketcello5354 well, pressure-fed liquid engines at a model scale have only one significant problem - a proper and non-destructive ignition sequence. Combustion instability is almost unheard of at such scales, so after startup the engine should work just fine. It is more than possible to make a small liquid rocket engine without having to use fuels/oxidizers that are hard to get. I've designed one as a student - I am a solid and liquid rocket engine design engineer after all. I'm sure Joe can figure it out as well!

[@BlahVideosBlahBlah]

@@rocketcello5354 You can do okay with NOS and salami.

[@derekbsheldon4861]

I think he actually got an offer a little while ago but turned them down to pursue his future youtube projects

[@dedy4games146]

Wait..wait..WAIT A SUPER HEAVY-STARSHIP THAT DOES WHAT?!

[@simontanguay3619]

Hmmm... Background Starship looks promising!

[@BPSspace]

IT BIG, IT REALLY REALLY BIG

[@Theironminer-ky2pg]

@@BPSspace can you make it bigger

[@CalebLefler-u4c]

@@BPSspace Make it bigger

[@jonivanart]

Love your work and thanks a lot for the content. Just an FYI. An RC car coil over doesn't just spring back. It actually has adjustable rebound by changing the disc's/Pistons. It has holes to control it. Since you have 4 of them you could use very small ones. I would definitely research them before discounting them. If you have any questions I race them and have a business where I invented parts for them to make them tougher. Thanks again.

[@VentoRacing1]

Amazing how far you have come! Great Job!

[@feelincrispy7053]

At 4:52 I literally mouthed the words KA-BOOM and to my amazement we indeed had a big ka-boom on screen lol

[@patrick247two]

Thank you. Your Scout is a thing of beauty.

[@gedaliakoehler6992]

Nice stuff Joey B

[@bergonius]

Have you thought about using hybrid engines to be able control thrust more precisely. Might help with reusability too.

[@Bu5H84]

RIP to my ears at 4:52.......... you my friends are a damn genius

[@TheWoodWorkingPilot]

Amazing progress! Quick solution for the legs dampening - connect 2 dampeners in series.

[@МаксимЛеонтьэв]

lookin forward to your future projects!

[@S_Breaux]

Idea here!! I think the flex in the legs is fine because it absorbs the impact but it’s the rebound that bounces the rocket to the other side. So you could try letting the legs flex with a rebound damper to keep the legs from springing the rocket to the opposite side. So somehow design a linkage that flexes as the strut compresses then the strut will slow how quickly that flex returns. Just applying some bike knowledge here.

[@SergejKolmogorov]

Joh, you are realy clever man. Good luck for your work!

[@anthonyhitchings1051]

great work and showing how design development works

[@B8kerStreet]

Blows my mind that you put that much work into the rocket and are still able to create quality videos. They feel very…calm and exciting both at the same time. I love the style!

[@joshmellon390]

Got my BT-80 body tube last night, I have some 3d prints, but I might go with a laser cut balsa wood mount. Can't wait!

[@buhwhatidk]

I've been watching your videos since scout D, keep it up!

[@brendansimons6811]

Have you seen how the "Gravity" jet suit controls vertical thrust? The jet throttles are far too slow to control altitude. Instead, the pilot flares the jets out with his arms, changing the vertical component of the thrust vector very quickly. Since you have the same throttle problem with solid motors, maybe putting two motors on opposing TVC controls might work well?

[@isaac.leonard]

I was kinda thinking that as well, my only concern would be space. Doesn’t seem like there would be enough for two motors side by side

[@gilbertanderson3456]

This inspires the thought that non-time-symetrical deployment could be used to null out residual horizontal velocity!

[@Andriu_FPV]

Amazing work!! A few ideas that might come handy on future revisions/ on the BFR :) Shock absorbers close to the body instead of on the tip of the arms, should help with bouncing and removes inertia from the legs for better deployment! Thrusting vectoring can help with throttle management with two or more motors so on the bigger rocket consider using more than one motor 😄

[@DiniM]

Watching the latest slow-mo shots, its clear that the tipping is the result of the legs opening. The rocket always tips towards the last leg to deploy due to its inertia. An additional damper close to the body should do the trick, but it would require a bit more time for full deployment tho.

[@chadlanc]

Came across your channel randomly this month and started from the beginning. finally made it to the latest!

[@gino7444]

I don't know shit about what you're doing but you present it all so enthusiastic and professional that i love watching you talking abracadabra ... keep it up because i can't wait ... Greetings from The Netherlands 👍😁

[@charlesurrea1451]

There's tunable oil piston dampeners too. Some you have to open and change a disc for the right resistance, others just twist. There's a trade off with tunability of a higher failure potential. The only thing I can think of to synch the legs is a cable drive linking them. Lot of torsion though.

[@sil8127]

Think of all of the things that worked perfectly every time on that rocket. The staging, the TVC, throttle control. All reliably working. So epic!

[@Daniel-gq1xy]

Pretty incredible work there.

[@fortisrisuspater]

I am a newcomer to your channel and feel compelled to sing your praises. Your videos are well put together, interesting and fun. I also appreciate how you break things down for the layman. Good luck on the large rocket build!

[@cameronblackmon9540]

For the legs: To avoid the issue of one leg hitting the ground before the other legs you might try one of two solutions: Some sort of linkage attaching to the leg on the opposite side to counteract similar to the philosophy of anti-roll-bars on car suspensions Another solution following the KISS method would be to have one single damper that all four landing legs act on instead of a separate damper for each leg. This way a single leg hitting first has a relatively stiffer damping force counteracting than all four legs at once.

[@wilianamaral]

You can still use the RC coilovers shock without the spring and it will behave as a regular damper with the added benefit of changing the silicone oil thickness to better control damping rates. Plus it has longer travel make it easier to compensate when a single leg touches the ground first

[@sparrowthenerd]

That starship is gonna be SICK

[@ZED-PV]

They come in haaaaard 😂😂 beautiful! Looks like the legs flipping out affects the stability too.

[@jebus456]

Hella keen on the starship rocket!

[@andrewbrowning6357]

I good way to release things under tension is with a three-ring release, as used on parachute cutaways. They reduce the force on your actuator significantly, allowing a small device to release a large load. Better than the nichrome solution.

[@gonzalezmadruga8341]

This is absolutly amazing.

[@TJCooney]

HELLO JOE BARNARD THANKS FOR THE VIDS

[@BPSspace]

YOU ARE WELCOME TJ

[@leggo0]

I wish I had found your channel sooner but going backing and watching this journey was crazy inspirational. Looking forward to future content!

[@ale131296]

This guy likes SpaceX so much he even copied them on having a successful landing but rocket tipped over (Jason 3) on the flight right after the one he first successfully landed his first rocket (Orbcomm OG2 M2)

[@siliconnitride7029]

Oh yes let’s go I see starship!

[@cjschoenmann2258]

Awesome rockets

[@joszandstra2044]

I only recently found your channel and must say I love seeing rocket science on a small scale.

[@mr.e5988]

Great stuff Joe!

[@Namaste.I.Bow.To.You.]

According to me, Possible solutions for this rocket's Instability are- 1) Keep Leg attached at higher top than lower end, due to which center of gravity will remain under pivot point. 2) While landing, instead using one trust propulsion, use four small trust propulsion's which will end turning/rotating moment of pillar like structure of rocket. 3) Use of liquid dampener than solid one, will absorb more sudden shocks.

[@c1ph3rpunk]

On the legs, what would the fix be if you had decided to do it? Larger pads hitting the ground? Go to 3 legs? Or increase to 5? Seems like going larger pad would help and perhaps even add some drag on the descent stage to help slow momentum. Like dropping the gears on a plane, we usually rely on that drag to help bleed off speed during final.

[@siberx4]

Your combination of enthusiasm, optimism and pragmatism is inspiring and infectious, never stop what you're doing!

[@truegret7778]

Good stuff! I think you are correct that with a larger version, some of these issues will work themselves out. I am curious whether you looked at using a 3-legged version.

[@evan._.7436]

Really well done good job. :)

[@bbrockert]

The similarity of the audio between flight 6 and the Xombie in-air relight is amazing. There is a distinct noise of doppler shifting a rocket that is slowly moving away from the camera, and then coming back.

[@tnttim1973]

For the legs a longer damper can be created by using a tube that slides very tightly into another tube. Then use a thick grease or paste between the tubes to slow their movement. I've used these a few times in different models. If you had a longer damper that was a few inches, it likely would solve your problem with tipping over.

[@michiganengineer8621]

It just clicked what your Scout rockets reminded me of. The landers used in Robert L. Forwards sci-fi series "Roche World". His are a little stouter and only use a tripod landing gear configuration, because one of those landing legs is used to lower an airplane to the ground out of the side of the descent stage.

[@lordolsen]

Great poster in the background! I took the photo of Nexø II. 👍🏻

[@charliewastaken]

I love the starship taking shape in the background

[@rolflandale2565]

The "bouncy" was supposed to be replaced with a shock absorbance stabilizer. The leg stands needed to utilize at first into umbrella 🌂 unfolding fail terminal velocity resistance, before a kick stand poise. The rocket only needed to sustain a first fall high, a very low consistent long term flow of mini thrusters, to avoid that last moment acrobat crazy landing stunt. Avoiding fuel over burns. At low gravity or longer fall in planets. (China style.)

[@S_Breaux]

You could use just the strut portion of the rc shocks. You had the entire coil over setup in the video, but it’s called a coil over because it’s over a linear shock. So might be an easier to access part going forward. Might’ve been what people were trying to suggest.

[@toddbernal2183]

Anything you can learn from is a successful flight. Even if it explodes. Learning from the failed flight imo is the best data you can get!. Keep up the amazing work!

[@yearnstr]

Just love what you're doing mate ☺️

[@purdie3dandlaserworks622]

Amazing work thanks for the inspiration

[@nixietuube5247]

Maybe you should consider the "Lucjan Łągiewka bumper". This polish inventor has created a bumper which converts a linear force to spinning force (reaction wheel).

[@estheralaba1195]

Your work gives me crazy inspiration and more reasons why I should go into this science field

[@madeintexas3d442]

I can't wait for your space shot I've always wanted to be a part of one. I've always wanted to use a balloon and cram a rocket and release system into it and keep it below 4kg or whatever the max is. I wonder how high you could get. I work as a project manager and have quite a bit of experience 3d printing so I would be happy to assist if anything comes up in that wheelhouse.

[@abelladeau9354]

I think if you look into the idea behind sway bar links and how they work on automotive suspension and apply this idea somehow to the legs so the legs are always more level to the ground than the body of the vehicle. This was my first immediate idea for a possible solution. Maybe a type of four way sway bar if that’s possible? I love your videos and how ambitious your projects are. Keep up the great work!

[@tarunantony1866]

Incredible

[@NonEuclideanTacoCannon]

Lol you have to put oil in the RC car shocks, or else it's just a spring. The oil is what provides the damping.

[@Seedyrom247]

My goodness that camera/lens and lighting you use for your studio shots is amazing

[@TeardownOZ2CPU]

LOVE the poster on the wall :-)

[@MikeM8891]

When the legs fold out the moments of inertia increase significantly. You may have accounted for this initially but the dampers you added would have increased it further. It may seem like a small amount of mass but since it is all the way at the ends of the legs it can be significant. This may be the cause of the slide. The control system thinks the rocket is easier to right than it actually is.

[@arturoenriqueinsignareszab4705]

Serendipity time: what about using your reaction wheel to balance the rocket on landing. The spin may induce a down force when landing to push the rocket to the ground and counteract tilt.

[@JamesHasSkill1337]

I love what this guy does so much that i watch the ads for full revenue, Keep up the hard work!

[@sasanka41]

I recommend if you could put a wooden board or something straight and steady on the ground so that the ground is even. That might help the legs to land much efficiently.

[@alexandregrynagier1762]

One thing to take into account, is that if one leg touches the ground first, then the correction of the vectored thrust should be higher, because it now fighting along/against the efforts that bear upon this specific leg. And i don't think isn't neglectable, but if the its spring is loaded, then maybe you could have here a way to know 'how much' it is loaded. Not saying i could do it myself... Gl&HF, waiting for the scout F vid :)

[@enestahirozan]

Dude you are one man spacex👏👏👏👏

[@wolfelkan8183]

3:36, That's only half the quote: "A good landing is any landing you can walk away from. A great landing is one where they can reuse the [rocket]"

[@parshvapatel8484]

I wanted to mention that when your legs are relased from the rubber band they fall with a very high velocity and this also increases the descent speed of your rocket and bounce and the heavier your legs are the more bounce it will create I am not an engineer It just came up in my mind I may not be correct but I think it was worth writing in comments

[@Potatocore124]

The suspension help for smother landing!

[@dutchdrifter8740]

Have you looked into microcoiles for your nichrome wire? You can create a hotspot that will definately burn trough the rubber band amd make it more reliable.

[@Arkios64]

I completely forgot that Linear Dampeners are a thing you can just buy when suggesting the concept on the last video; glad they (somewhat) worked out! A (somewhat) simple way you could include them in the Scout design, would be to make the rods that lock in when extending the legs into dampeners. You could, basically, find a pipe that fits over the rod, plug up one end and give it a small air outlet. An improvised cylinder is, admittedly, not as reliably symmetrical as the ones you used in this, but it would give significantly more travel which could really help with those landings on one or two legs.

[@catch_me_if_you_can1147]

Good stuff

[@T_Mo271]

Thanks for the great summary. Scout has done its job.

[@MrJackHackney]

The ascent and descent engine gimbaling is amazing!

[@eligebrown8998]

Lol love the explosion. Love the idea of landing a rocket. It's not natural but can be done. Keep up the great work.

[@mattshaffer5935]

Good progress!

[@tomgdownhill]

To be fair.... RC shox is a damper and bring combo, just like a regular car. So just remove the spring, and you have a much longer travel damper. They also usually have a threaded "piston rod"

[@RealAndySkibba]

Such a cool project. Loving the larger scale starship tease.

[@srinivasarao1755]

If the legs open slowly rather than just falling open with force, we can reduce the force created by them on the rocket, there by reducing side roll and achieving rocket landing on all four legs at once.

[@NirajKumar-ut5ez]

It's nice one and your consistent approach made your project sucessfull. Thanks for sharing.

[@cut--]

just curious if you saw that video lately of those students who created those little robots that use carbon fiber legs which are bound up by a light weight motor and shot (jumped) 100s of times there own weight...

[@cut--]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/mpLEdah5ZtCVmtU

[@AminalCreacher]

You're really good at naming things