De-Googled Phones: Inconvenient and Impractical?

[@Menjari]

I used to work at a pawn shop. Amazon would always recommend the products related to what the customers were bringing in or buying, as we would talk about it. So 100% they do listen.

[@jjflash2611]

Been using a Pixel 4 running Calyx OS for the past 3 years. With MicroG, Aurora Store and F-Droid, I run all the Apps I need without missing a step and all the privacy I desire. It's easier than you think. Will never go back to stock Android or iOS. Make the switch, take your privacy back.

[@InternetsDadGaming]

@@JA-zy7pp because ironically google's phones is one of the most friendly in terms of putting an degoogled OS on it, as while it still has googles random garbage on it, it doesn't ALSO have a bunch of junk from Samsung or LG etc., and Google Phones are easy to put a Degoogled OS on, compared to say Samsung, which can be trickier to do on.

[@TheEdge92]

CalyxOS SUCKS!!! You can't even use the ebay app because you can't login! Ohh and youtube isn't working too! So it renders the smartphone useless.

[@ginogomez5401]

Thank you Rob for opening our eyes! As technology advances, I definitely leaning towards this De-googled phone or no phone at all. It definitely is an inconvenience, but we were just fine in the 80's!

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

"Leaning towards" means absolutely nothing, it is still complete non-commitment on your part. The choice is simple - "privacy or convenience". With that said, by doing some learning and doing things differently, it does become convenient once again. But nothing changes until you do it - either buying a de-Googled phone or installing it yourself.

[@bernardmueller5676]

De-googled phones don't work. I can't use banking apps, I can't use PingID - which I absolutely need for my work.

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

@@bernardmueller5676 The don't de-Google a phone and sacrifice your privacy because you need those apps. That is the choice you make, live with it. At least you now make that choice being better informed and understanding the "tug-of-war" battle you face between privacy or convenience. What has kept you? Rob has been saying this same message for a few years now, there's nothing new here.

[@sixdollarman1362]

@@terrydaktyllus1320 "Leaning towards" means whatever to the person who posted it, Maybe, he or she is not able to commit because of finances or other stuff that's none of your business. Your post makes you sound like a condescending jerk.

[@ginogomez5401]

@@bernardmueller5676 I think that just depends on the person. I don't need banking apps or social media or much of anything else except for communication. Like Rob explained, it's just so much of an inconvenienced because we are so spoiled by them. Privacy vs convenience. As tech gets better and better, you can bet it's going to get worse (as far as privacy). I would love to be able to use my little Nokia analog phone that was half the size of these phones. Phone call and or a txt is all I need.

[@dannyd4339]

You're a good man. Don't let the comment section get to you. You are doing good work.

[@Real-Name..Maqavoy]

Couldn't agree more... and having a *Common-Sense* seems to be - A crime now. By some Nations...

[@freddieh5539]

I opted for the 2 phone system. De-googled phone has minimal apps, and goes everywhere with me. Backup phone is android and has all the usual garbage apps, but stays at home most of the time. System seems to work well so far.

[@porvoonosho]

So you haven't been caught?

[@freddieh5539]

@@porvoonosho - Caught doing WHAT? I haven't do e anything illegal.....yet. But I'm not making any promises.

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

Sorry, in what way do you think this works? You are identified by the phone you leave at home, how would you guarantee the phone that you carry with you is in NO WAY linked to that home phone? Or to your real identity? For starters, if someone else has that "portable" phone number in their online contacts database anywhere, then that's you identified. What about accounts you use on both phones? Faecesbook, for example? Google Maps? Surely you need maps on a phone you are carrying with you.

[@orange11squares]

@@terrydaktyllus1320 he's not using google apps of facebook crap on a degoogled phone. Also there is no real way to determine identity on a standard androind phone (the one that he leaves at home) if he never typed his identity on that phone or never added any google account.

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

@@orange11squares "he's not using google apps of facebook crap on a degoogled phone." So he can't speak for himself and appointed you his spokesperson then? Look, don't waste my time here. I debate offering my opinions, you respond offering your opinions because you're not in someone else's head - and it's a waste of my time arguing against what you believe someone else thinks. "Also there is no real way to determine identity on a standard androind phone (the one that he leaves at home) if he never typed his identity on that phone or never added any google account." Complete rubbish. Google Apps on the phone give them the phone's IMEI number, phone number and location. The location that phone is in most of the time, or at night time, gives Google an address and therefore access to a database provides a small number of identities that can be living at that address. To be any more anonymous than that, given Google got all that info for free before anything else happened, you'd have to guarantee that you do not have other contacts in the phone's database or that no-one else has the owner's name against that phone number in their online contacts too. And unless you are very strict with that phone usage, then the chances of that not happening are close to zero. Identified. And all without any Google account on the phone.

[@oswaldjh]

Just a reminder. The couple that took pictures of their toddlers rash to email to their Doctor and the phone reported them to the Apple mothership. It took a year for this family to get their life back because of the Police Investigation of the parents for child porn. They had nothing to hide, same as you.

[@truthnotfeelings]

Great comment. It is not about ‘if you are doing something wrong’. It is about ‘if whoever is spying on you *thinks* you are doing something wrong’

[@Reub3]

@@truthnotfeelings BAM! Well put. I'm gonna use that.

[@C0SSTY]

If that family still uses iPhone products after this then the world is doomed.

[@tiffaspur]

Omg 😱

[@SolidSnake240]

​@@truthnotfeelingsUnfortunately a majority of people aren't even aware of this and/or don't care.

[@westhigh1976]

Hi Rob...great information...let me take it a step further...concerning the Uber Lyft problem...why not just call a Taxi...Uber and Lyft have gotten so expensive anyway...Taxi's are all over the airports and you can call one to pick you up and take you anywhere...I use a Sunbeam Orchid phone as my no trace phone and that's what I use about 80% of the time (no internet but it does do talk, text with group, directions with map and voice, camera, weather updates ect ect)...the rare occasions when I need a smart phone I use an older Android phone...it's not perfect but it's worth the slight inconvenience. Besides, people need to detox from their smart phones anyway and the Sunbeam Orchid is perfect for that

[@98grand5point9]

While driving down the road I saw a store and mentioned it to my wife, she acknowledged it. A few hours later my wife got an ad for that store on her phone ! Never before, never after that ! Obviously google phones are constantly listening.

[@robbraxmantech]

yes that is likely

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

It's also likely that 24x7 tracking of your phone by Google to an accuracy of 2 meters put your wife in proximity to the store which then caused her to get the ad. Probably nothing more mysterious than that.

[@susansauceda9879]

Recently, I was outside of my house, on a cordless landline phone (my cell phone was inside, nowhere near me). I mentioned long range walkie talkies to my son, and had walkie talkies suggested to me on Amazon.

[@keylanoslokj1806]

​@@terrydaktyllus1320no they listen. I was at home when i talked about specific watches and they appeared in the browser. Same with other devices i never googled before. Just by speaking about them

[@Reub3]

Same stuff happens to me with amazon ads. So I like to screw around with it when I go to peoples houses. I just say "I'm looking into to buying" some random nonsense topic to see if the spy-algos will advertise it. I'm currently testing out using Trump and voting phrases out loud to see what the internet turns out through ads.

[@gcz4457]

I use e de-Google phone for more than a year. I still can do everything.

[@badriyah43]

Even banking?

[@neotrixvlogg1278]

yes@@badriyah43

[@OK-cp8qw]

most banking apps don't require google services . They require a non-customised phone with most security features enabled . Which you can do even in a degoogled custom rom

[@johng.4959]

Rob - Great video! I have a De-Googled phone and it's great. What would be an interesting video would be finding FOSS software that replaces some of the commonly used software that most people use. (Like Organic Maps vs. Google Maps). Perhaps you could do a video that compiles some of these so that people "know" they have an alternative. I try to use F-Droid apps as much as possible. I think many people are willing to make that "jump" towards privacy but just don't have a clue as to "how"....👍

[@BrightBlueJim]

I think I would still want to do the dual phone method. Let's face it: Google's all-seeing, all-knowing Maps app really DOES know where the traffic jams are, because it knows where each phone is and how fast it's moving. I don't know of any other navigation aid that gives this level of real-time data. So I guess the question is, if I have a phone that's used for nothing but navigation, do I still care if someone knows where my car is at every moment?

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

@@BrightBlueJim "I think I would still want to do the dual phone method." ...which then makes it completely pointless have two phones, one de-Googled because the other phone always identifies you. I do it find it funny when in the face of Google and Apple spending hundred of millions of dollars on creating the best surveillance devices possible, that people like you think you can "defeat" their surveillance with a simple "workaround". One thing and one thing only works - turning the surveillance off. All of it.

[@uss974]

gando no I1

[@keylanoslokj1806]

Does it have a SIM though?

[@johng.4959]

@@keylanoslokj1806 Yes

[@pigletshut]

Truck driver here. The tracking is part of the government's Electronic Logging Device mandate, so carriers HAVE to have that tracking. For this reason and not knowing what devices drivers carry, they install their own. Some are degoogled from the factory, or run Windows actually (*wink* Omnitracs IVG), so some of us don't worry about that.

[@lyfandeth]

BTW, on the Verizon "for emergency responders" phone selection phone, they did have one new phone that has a removeable battery. It is NOT listed as available on their consumer pages.

[@goldcic]

There is a second b@ttery. Takes bolt cutters to get to.

[@oceanaxim]

Thank you for this detailed video for individuals like me who are on the the fence on this matter. Yes, apps like Uber and Lyft are very handy and convenient, lately I have been finding it is considerably cheaper to use and support an independent taxicab company. With Waze, that would be more difficult for me to go without personally, but knowing you use those apps only at your discretion on a second phone gives you reasonable options.

[@robbraxmantech]

Waze works fine on de-Googled phones actually. Which is strange. But don't log in.

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

The thing is that Google or Apple know exactly which fence you are on to an accuracy of 2 meters until you do something to help yourself.

[@oldtools]

good luck. ( I've cloned this device in roombas on 70 floors in this building. )@@terrydaktyllus1320

[@patrickmullee6982]

Uber now has a phone number you can call to order a car. You do not need the Uber app. Google Uber phone number

[@dtl5623]

​@@terrydaktyllus1320 - Google & Apple also know about that stick lodged up your _ss.

[@tonyg8471]

OK Rob, your analysis sounds spot-on, as usual. However, I would like to hear you address the phone company side of this equation. Others below have hit on this point, but I would like to see what the Braxman has to say about the cell carrier's piece of this puzzle. I'm a Verizon customer, and I expect to see a Verizon employee with a spotting scope behind every tree. Just waiting for me to come within visual range. Anyway, Brax, what say you? And thank you for giving the tech world a kick in the privacy groin.

[@iteerrex8166]

Mr Braxman, thank you for the advice, products and services.

[@ArtOfHealth]

Clear! Help folks out. This is a difficult message for the majority. Thank you Rob.

[@nbi4220]

Using de-googled and backup phones is a good concept, but not without wrinkles. The first thing that comes to mind is that the 2nd phone requires another account (2nd line in MVNO lingo). That may or may not be a hurdle depending on the provider. Mint is quite reasonable in this regard, but many are not. Ok, lets assume you found a provider that gives you that 2nd line for cheap. Problem solved? Not so fast. If you were assuming you can use your old clunker phone as the backup you may be in for a surprise. All MVNO providers now require that phones used on their networks are VoLTE (Voice over LTE) capable. I found out about this the hard way and had to pitch my old phone (2013 model) while enrolled with Tracfone. This was a good time to move to Mint anyway so getting a much needed new phone was no big deal. But those of you contemplating Rob's backup approach need to be aware of this - you may need to pitch that old phone and get a new one to act as backup. For some money is no object, but those scrutinizing phone plans are probably budget conscious.

[@deckmonkey1459]

I was just swapping the sim card back and forth with the tool I left in the back of the case. A small hassle, but free. I tried to get a pay as you go plan, but the minutes expire every month and you have to sign up anyway so it's pointless.

[@Hopeful1s]

@@deckmonkey1459 That’s probably not a good idea because now that creates a link that ties you personally with both phones via the SIM card and your phone carrier.

[@RedzuanCiLz91]

Degoogle + KZbin as main?? = Welcome back.

[@TimHWolfe]

I rarely use the web on my old Iphone SE. Especially banking or anything to do with $. I keep it at home. I worked in IT for the big telco’s since 1969. Till I retired recently. If people only knew. I’ve had my Brax 2 for about a year. 👍 I’m not addicted to living with the phone on my ear. Thx Rob !

[@respectingthewordpodcast]

I use a Linux computer to do my banking.

[@viro-de-graphe-matician]

I am using a Volla Phone and it is just great! I can only recommend it. Build on Android Open Source Project, multiboot where you can run different OSes, 2 SIM slots, lots of privacy settings, sandboxing, etc. These are AWESOME phones!

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

Just checked it out on the web site, priced in Euros too so presumably of European origin. The only downer for me is that I consider phones to be a "necessary evil" and believe that a good and private phone is as "dumb" as possible. (Hence carrying around a small Linux laptop with me most times to do my computing on that.) I therefore don't want to pay around 500 Euros for such a phone when I can pick a used Moto G7 or Pixel 4a on eBay for 100 Euros and de-Google it myself. But thanks for the "heads up", it's an interesting phone.

[@timothythompson4036]

Everything Rob is saying is true. Criminals know to use cheap burner phones so it is much harder to track them. The serial killer Rex Heurmann used as many as six burner phones at a time. This is the reason it took 10 years to find him.

[@norwegianzound]

And he was caught by his burner

[@augurcybernaut4785]

Nope…. Rob has something to sell you. You know this because he holds his products in contrast to Apple Goog -- instead of relative to how many attempts by the gubberment to penetrate his products

[@DavidNicholls-z5n]

There's also the FOSS MicroG services that some de-Googled phones make available. essentially you use your Google creds, it anonymises them and that is what Google sees. Not a perfect solution but partially blocks some tracking and there are at least two different projects offering a similar service.

[@humilulo]

Rob, i just want to say thank you for doing what you do, Rob.

[@itrytobeanonymoustoo5289]

Some privacy is better than no privacy. I believe if every normie took steps to obtain some privacy it would make a huge dent into the data collection and surveillance activities of big tech and government.

[@bernardmueller5676]

De-googled phones don't work. I can't use banking apps, I can't use PingID - which I absolutely need for my work.

[@elliottdiedrich3068]

@@bernardmueller5676 De-googled phones don't work for YOU, but that is because you can't figure out how to organize your life to the way things worked only ten years ago, before the apps became popular.

[@Fixer_Su3ana]

@@bernardmueller5676 Have a seperate phone for your work, or just use your phone for work and do absolutely nothing else on it at all, especially not bankIng.

[@annekristiina7503]

Yea, same here. The one app that forces me to buy new phone every four years, is my countrys banking ID app, and they make you download it through Google play store, so I have to log in to it with a google account to download it, so the phone now is forever connected with an google ID. Can't bypass it anywhere. Also they make everyone switch up their phone to newer model so older phones are thrown away in the garbage because you can't sell it to someone who needs the banking ID on it as it won't work anymore.@@bernardmueller5676

[@ceriasophis405]

Only problem is the Stasi would be brought in and confiscate on trump up charges and eventual bought and sold Tech will catch up on the needed new firmware to secure your compliance one way or another this isn't going away..unless legally Elected leaders if that is allowed these days. Must have the integrity to follow US Constitution and legislate a comprehensive internet Bill of Rights..which grantees complete privacy from any 3rd party Govt...Law enforcement or otherwise. Everybody get to play on the same field and from the same start and finish line..don't mind me I dreaming. MONEY CONTROL and POWER are the bottom line. They go it and they won't give it up. Forget it...if it is not game over yet..it only means they are prolonging the game for more of the same.

[@DS-uz7nd]

Somewhat ironic that one can't check out your Brax phone without signing up on your site. But never mind. Appreciate your hard work

[@robbraxmantech]

No identity is required to sign in. But it allows you to communicate with others. You can ask other users of phones right there. In any case, BraX2 phones are sold out. We only have De-Googled Pixels currently.

[@Provocateur3]

I hear rumors of new hardware ahead (e.g. removable batteries.) Also, I'm still hoping for a militarized degoogled phone. You know, submersible, shockproof, etc. Please consider adding one to your lineup when they are available.

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

Is your name James Bond or something? Have you even started with just a normal deGoogled phone, to see how you get on with that? Or are you one of my "OMT" people - the procrastinators where always "One More Thing" needs to happen before you will actually do anything?

[@Provocateur3]

@@terrydaktyllus1320: It's Mr. Jason Bourne to you. And stop scolding me. You're not my Mom. You're not the boss of me. Nyah nyah nyah! I had a Ulefone Armor & spent a bit to get it rooted. (Got bricked thrice.) After a year the battery swelled. Poop! I'm a tech junkie & value privacy. Currently have 3 android devices & follow Rob but none are completely degoogled. We each walk our own privacy/security path. Thanks for your concern.

[@westhigh1976]

People have been brainwashed to think if they need a ride they gotta use Uber or Lyft or if they want to watch TV they gotta have cable or any other pay service....if you want a ride take a taxi (no app required), if you want to watch TV plug in a set of rabbit ears to your set (free TV)...

[@dingdong2937]

At the end..have a phone..or no phone..save urself..i love u man

[@Narendra--Modi]

Used to use AICP Android Ice Cold Project, loved it to bits. Changed my out dated phone and gone to CRdroid, shame AICP don't support new phone. Custom ROM is an experience if nothing else it keeps you on your toes and aware.

[@shephusted2714]

better to just use a tethered linux laptop and a vpn - use your phone just for mobile bandwidth and ditch the mobile 'ecosystem' - it is a smart and pragmatic way to go which avoids many of the pitfalls inherent in mobile devices these days - it is liable to be cheaper as well and you have much more performance and upgrade path too

[@ericsmith1801]

Unfortunately easy tether is not supported beyond Ubuntu 20.04. Sure, you can pay the hotspot prices to phone companies if you wish.

[@TLM860]

Might as well get a kai os device or a hotspot

[@shephusted2714]

@@ericsmith1801 that is an ubuntu problem - don't break debian

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

Absolutely, exactly what I do. And no public wifi, use the phone's data allowance.

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

@@ericsmith1801 Then I suggest you change mobile provider. I have four de-Googled phones here in Europe and there is no cost for me to connect a Gentoo Linux laptop to any of them as a hotspot for Internet access. If it's an Apple phone you have then there's no point doing any tethering because Apple know what you are doing at all times anyway. You can forget about privacy completely.

[@erik149]

Thanks for the great content, and making people aware they are just little fish in a swarm observed by the sharks out there. Current mobile phone technology allows to take your ideas a step further. Imagine a phone with around 12GB memory and 512GB storage combined with a beefy battery of 8000mAh. It would be able to boot a distro of Linux supporting this phone, install QEMU and creation of several virtual Android phones which can be stock Android images with the google blob included or de-googled Android images. Not only can the user decide the level of privacy on one device, the control QEMU provides on device access could even be used to monitor and possible limit the information leakage from the googled Android images that are activated. It just would take a friendly Hardware manufacturer to produce a powerful enough platform to enable this technology, publish its specs so people can port Linux to it. Combined with file system encryption Linux provides, it would be impossible to access information on the phone without cooperation of the user.

[@rogfusionkid]

This has essentialy already been done using things like a Raspberry Pi, you can configure it how you want.

[@Mantikal]

In essence (we've all been played) - "Our phone" isn't really "our phone" - no matter how much money we paid for it. As a matter of fact, the more you paid for your phone, the greater the scale of how much you've played!!! = Shiny object for the dumb monkey scenario. There's no difference between that and you having a credit card with one million dollars in credit - and you deluding youself into thinking that just one penny of it - is "your money."

[@dantonsmaxim]

Thanks. Something happened a year or so ago during the height of Covid. There was a website reporting the location and number of new cases. I put my Blackberry Key on tracking mode to be on the safe side. One day I get an Email from Walmart thanking me for shopping there. On checking my tracking, I had stopped in the Walmart parking lot for about 15 minutes, never in the store. My “secure” Blackberry is now retired so is my partners samsung. We have 2 new degoogled phones with removable batteries running e/OS. We have 2 sources of apps, one that fakes a Google address so that apps like Uber work and the other is FOSS only apps. My tracking app now uses GPS locations only, not Google or cell towers.

[@chickenfizz]

this sounds like it would be an interesting story if it made sense. I don't know what "new cased" is... But the main part of the story is that you tracked your phone and it was in a car park. I didn't know of the inherent dangers of phones being in car parks but apparently it's so bad that you need to get a new phone.

[@Zaptosis]

Congrats on 400k subs!

[@marciaturley2850]

I want this phone! Thank you for making this video! So spooky who weird our world is these days! Love your content! Big thank you! I'll check your website. i'm in Nordic countries but think I saw your delivery world wide. So happy you're doing what you do!

[@paultraynorbsc627]

Thanks Rob much appreciated 🇬🇧

[@geopietro]

Rob, thank you for the video. Does your 2 phone solution require 2 different phone numbers? If so, do you recommend 2 different carriers? Keep up the great work.

[@PaulWestonEden]

I have an old Samsung s-7 that I could use for my non-use phone. How would change the ID on it like you did?

[@tonybarfridge4369]

I disabled Google play store and a gov dept app wouldn't work without reenabling it

[@chuck_norris]

Ive tried it for about an Year and yes: Inconvenient and Impractical.

[@robbraxmantech]

Then you should watch this video carefully because your statement says you're giving up 100% of your privacy.

[@serenditymuse]

I do the vast majority of my internet and communication stuff on computers. Thus there are large parts of the day where I can keep the phone off and in a faraday bag. Maybe a few times in your life being awakened by an emergency phone call is important. Leaving your phone on all night and able to interrupt your sleep is a dumb modern habit.

[@TheJackiMonster]

I'm currently using a Librem 5 as daily driver. Still not an optimal solution since security can still be a huge concern with it and privacy pretty much depends on your own usage. However I think it's one of the better options long-term. With a phone based on FOSS, open schematics and hardware picked for minimal proprietary firmware, it is definitely possible to get rid of untrusted software completely. Security can be improved and hardened over time. So in the future it could be a really great option as AOSP.

[@TLM860]

How is the battery life? How does it compare to the Pine phone?

[@TheJackiMonster]

@@TLM860 I roughly get through the day with it in one charge. I utilize its suspension feature a lot so it will automatically suspend after a few seconds inacitivity (similar to most Android phones) to save power. Biggest difference is that it won't wakeup if applications get any message. It will only wakeup on its own when you receive a call or SMS because then the modem can trigger your CPU to turn on. Obviously it's also required to have the modem active and not cut from power via its hardware kill-switch. I personally get probably around 12 hours from the device with very light usage (checking messages, reading a website or blog) now and then but mostly in suspension. If you want to know more accurate numbers, Purism did publish multiple videos and articles over time with numbers depending on usage. Those can be quite realistic from my experience. But obviously it depends on your own usage. The Pinephone (and Pinephone Pro) use a smaller battery (only 3000mAh while the Librem 5 offers 4500mAh). So physics will obviously limit you more. Their chips and software are not as much more efficient to keep up. But they also offers some deep-sleep suspension mechanism. If you use that only your active usage should be reduced (for the most part). I own a Pinephone and Pinephone Pro as well. From my experience I would say the Pinephone Pro is very close in terms of specs to the Librem 5. The original Pinephone is too slow because of its memory speed and slower GPU for me as daily driver. So I would recommend trying out the Pinephone Pro if anything. One thing to keep in mind though is that either Pinephone requires definitely more configuring and tinkering to make it work than the Librem 5. Purism pays developers to improve the software state of it and updates are pretty often. From my experience I would also note that the best software experience I had on the Pinephones was when I used mostly the software stack Purism implemented and published (which is open-source of course). There are still many community efforts to improve the Pinephone but you need to know how to find them or at least how to get a distro which makes use of them. ^^' Either way I really like how these Linux phones work already. The concept of convergent apps which use the identical code base for desktop and mobile is awesome. I already developed apps my own and it's as easy as moving a Python script over and running it. I much prefer it over developing for Android.

[@TLM860]

@@TheJackiMonster Thanks for breaking that down. I've heard bad comments about Purism

[@TheJackiMonster]

@@TLM860 I mean I still had to wait a long time to even get the device (waited about three years). There have been shipping delays because they needed to tweak the hardware in multiple iterations getting rid of overheating issues for example. Then the pandemic and chip shortage got into their way. One thing many people don't talk about when addressing that is that the Librem 5 uses a SoC you can find in multiple cars. But since Purism is a very small company they didn't get any priority to meet demand, chips got more expensive and they couldn't get an alternative. Typically hardware manufacturers would just switch out the problematic parts to meet demand. But since the Librem 5 aims to offer as much FOSS support as possible (even on firmware level for most parts) switching out hardware means more work for their development department. So they had to deal with that and I believe that's why Purism ended up delaying any refunds until new orders would bring it enough cash to process them. That's still pretty bad since consumers don't really care about circumstances. They just either want to receive the product or get their money back which is reasonable. So that's the most reason you will find such bad statements about Purism. They are not wrong. But at the same time I recommend checking out their Gitlab repositories. While they couldn't fulfill orders for a long time, their developers worked on the software stack very hard. Therefore it's not as easy as calling the whole thing a scam. The product exists and it works, better than I had imagined originally to be honest. I mean they have fully reverse-engineered the camera sensor and now you can record videos with a live view, auto-focus and even audio synced. From their latest posts it seems like they could actually fulfill last remaining orders hitting shipping parity. So new orders should get delivered in two weeks windows. I really hope it works this time. ^^' It would just be better if the product wasn't as expensive now. Because obviously the hardware compared to any Android phone on the market in a quarter of that price, looks kind of silly. But it's a difficult business model. Overall the consumer pays once but gets software updates for a lifetime, hardware can be repaired, battery replaced and all of this without ads, dependency to one big company or anything. Even if Purism would go bankrupt one day, you could still use an upstream kernel and run Debian on it, I assume.

[@aquatrax123]

Do not buy the librem 5 phone. It is a complete scam. I bought one and waited a year before I upgraded to the USA version before they shipped a phone. When I got it worked for about 1 week before the awesim service got shut down for everyone. It took a month for purism to send out new SIM cards. I passed and got no refund or anything back. For the phone, it is completely useless. The suspend feature that is being talked about basically turns the device off completely - you get no calls. For the battery life for real, it’s about 4 hours. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. There is nothing useful at all about this phone. No Linux app other then chess and the terminal app actually fit the screen. Linux on a phone is a good idea but purism is a scam company.

[@EquaTechnologies]

Here is an example of the full privacy experience WITH the most of the modern features on a regular smartphone in the 2020s - Nokia Asha 210 - It has a keyboard but don't let that fool you - it is like a mini portable computer, it can do E-mail, games, browse articles and it even has Wi-Fi! I once read a forum on it and things like Reddit on the browser work just as fine.

[@AviKien-i2q]

No I don't friend!! I know they are not on my side! I think you freaking rock dude and I'm hella grateful for you and your videos!! Love you thank you

[@paezwa33]

Here’s a solution: Advocating for robust legislation to address identity vulnerabilities is crucial. A comprehensive approach, restricting access to personal data through legal channels like court orders, akin to FISA protections, can significantly enhance individual privacy and curb potential misuse by corporations and governments.

[@mikehawk7307]

The main problems I had with privacy roms is the lack of android auto and navigation. Having said that. It does not matter if your phone is degoogled. If big brother wants to know where you are then they will find out.

[@PixelPusher1]

Rob has made that point several times, that if you're _a target_ there's really nothing you can do. This isn't about that, this is about privacy not evasion

[@annekristiina7503]

Big brother sure, but I'm sick of all the ads I see, and the info about my browsing history getting sold to 3-rd parties that push these ads. If you need your product to be pushed this hard, I guess your product isn't that good that customers would come by themselves to check it out or you risk loosing customers because of the invasive pushy advertising. It's becoming so cringe sometimes that I feel like taking a brake from digital browsing and all platsforms.

[@flashbazbo3932]

Rob -Is there a service where we can send our phones in to get them de-Googled?

[@ventura1957]

I think your suggestion to use two phones is pretty good. I one phone OnePlus where I have lineageOS installed.

[@summitchase]

Instead of pretending a "degoogled" phone can free you of tracking and give you private communications in exchange for major inconvenience, we are better served by using secured software/hardware for special cases. Most communications aren't sensitive enough to warrant encrypted chat, for example. When it is warranted, simply ensure that you use a secured device (which is certainly never a mobile device). Same with travel. That one time you simply cannot risk being tracked, don't bring any phone. "Degoogled" doesn't mean bad actors haven't infiltrated the software you're running.

[@june012006]

Regarding encrypted chat though, it's probably best to encrypt whenever possible, because it enlarges the pool of encrypted data (I recall a joke, or meme from a decade ago with hackers asking boring people to stop encrypting their grandma's recipes).

[@whutwhut2434]

show me this secured device and software

[@nightshocker6908]

As a privacy advocate I am very surprised you are not helping people more by letting us know how to make our phones de googled instead of selling a product or why not do both. Just saying.

[@robbraxmantech]

It is not a small step to de-Google a phone. If you don't have the tech skillset, and the specific instructions for that specific model, you can brick the phone. I've tried to come up with a video to do that but there's that inherent danger in bricking the phone.

[@nightshocker6908]

@@robbraxmantech I completely understand that but for people that can do it(like me) why not and just have a BIG BOLD notice that this could make your phone unusable. I am sure most people that would want to be Google free do have some knowledge of the needed skillset.

[@janburn007]

There are lots of different phone models out there & because the de-Googling process is different for each make/model of phone - it would take a long time indeed for someone to work out how to de-Google each make/model of phone (& at the risk of "bricking" several (& possibly expensive) phone models along the way) just so they could pass that information on to others. And they might probably end up having to "sell" those de-Googling instructions to others, in order to recoup the cost of all the hours spent trying to work out that process for each phone make/model, as well as the cost of any "bricked" phones along the way. I also doubt that there would be a sufficient market for such de-Googling instructions - because people would need to have a certain level of technical ability to do it themselves - even if they are just following the instructions given to them. Yes - there are certainly people with those skills out there - but probably not enough to make providing such a service worthwhile & at the very least to recoup costs or make a small profit to give that service provider "money to live on". And there are some makes/models of phones that simply cannot be de-Googled for a range of different reasons. It' may well just be easier & less expensive (in terms of "bricked" phones created in the process) to create a new phone from scratch that does not have any Google at all. It should also be noted that it is not possible to de-Apple at iPhone.

[@nightshocker6908]

Can not see the last comment

[@Arabzene]

As a free market advocate -- as I am sure many people following Rob are -- I would counter your criticism that he deserves to be paid for his expertise and work. Why would anyone expect something valuable for free? I think it is praiseworthy that he already makes so much of his knowledge available free of charge here on YT.

[@jimhorne8855]

Can you use any android phone or do you need certain models. Also, what do use use as a carrier for phone service?

[@mwngw]

Waiting anxiously for the Brax3....I will order when available.

[@balamacab]

I worked for a mobile company, unfortunate is not enough to have a de google phone to government not to pin point you. IMEI is shared to the cell tower for your provider to enable service. For a event that you described gov gather the corresponding data what IMEIs were in the area and to whom are those IME registered. If you somehow change the IMEI in your phone then you can be charge on committed a crime because it’s illegal to change or clone the IMEI

[@chickenfizz]

Cell tower pings are imperfect and inaccurate, they aren't (or at least weren't) designed to pin-point your location and in cases of poor coverage they may only be accurate to a radius of a few km, furthermore they may provide several 'possible' locations rather than one de facto location. They would be a particularly poor tool to use as sole evidence in a court of law.

[@PUAMETH0D]

Also if you buy your phone with cash, the IMEI isn't registered to anyone.

[@Chuck8541]

If we have a de-googled phone, and use a browser to *regularly* use youtube, and other web accessible apps, are we still protected? Like, if we do that, is that IMEI or whatever other meta data given to google and other companies?

[@robbraxmantech]

Browser cannot access IMEI. However there is something called a Worker process that continually tracks the IP address and reports that with a Google ID. Only clearing cookies will stop it. For this reason, a second phone might be the better option

[@sajiretto]

I have 2 phones the second an old iphone that is deconnected as far as it gets from Apple with most apps removed and synced to a private file sharing for video and photo upload instead of iCloud. GPS is disabled and the cameras are taped up. It's still good as music player.

[@kevindavis5114]

Another well explained video. A DeGoogled phone is the way to go!

[@ALANCREA]

Hei Rob i was just wondering with the De-googled phone if you use it to send a text message or a phone call to a googled / Iphone does the de-googled phone give away infomation so they can track you later ? and do you think they will make owning a de-googled phone a criminal offense, and could the tele operators kill non trackable phones ? 🤔

[@Crosshatch1212]

Yes,

[@lihtan]

Any phone that you use to make calls or text messages with will have it's location triangulated by the cell tower, the moment the phone goes online. The numbers you contact also builds a map of who the people are in your circle. Again this data is collected by the carrier, and has nothing to do with what device you use. No one is going to make de-google phones illegal. The carriers will just continue dropping support for older phones, forcing people to upgrade to less secure devices in order to remain connected. Any phone with a SIM card can always be triangulated by the cell tower.

[@alexanderpappas68]

Rob, Question, since our mobile phone service provider shares everything with the state and the state has and uses tech that identifies us by voice, typing algorithm, call record algorithm and more, how is it conceivable that we are any more safer at all with a degoogled phone as the state is the biggest concern. Plus our service provider is probably, no certainly, using similar tech and knows who we are as well. Please enlighten us.

[@june012006]

One way around that is a burner SIM that you never give the number for, and use a VOIP service for actual calls. Of course, this should be on some form of degoogled phone

[@lihtan]

Separating your devices makes it much harder for someone to get a complete profile on you or your activities, because your information isn't all in one place. It's the same reason you use multiple passwords. You can have one breach that doesn't compromise any of your other accounts.

[@alexanderpappas68]

@@lihtan my point of question is based on the fact that having 2 phones only gives us the illusion of privacy. While it may limit some businesses from the data, the corrupted US Government with the present traitors ARE the enemy. They still have it ALL in just milliseconds of anything we do thats electronic. Am I missing something¿ I really hope I am.

[@paezwa33]

Highlighting the importance of a legislative solution, it's essential to emphasize that the proposed approach isn't a technical fix but rather a legal framework. Enforcing laws that make it illegal for any third party, regardless of their identity, to access or sell people's data would provide comprehensive protection for everyone.

[@stevegyro1]

You are dreaming, sir if there’s a will, there’s a way and people will always be snooping

[@markramone69]

There was literally a google advert just before this video started!

[@giselafiege7169]

I’m contemplating a degoogled phone as my IPhone for one is a Dino now and is having quirks that are frustrating me. I was looking at the price point for one of yours. Few questions would I be able to keep my number and I also saw you have a carrier service. I’m very low tech savvy so please forgive my ignorance. That said I am very aware of the selling of my data and wish to curb this and or completely reduce it! I’ve done some research but again the language of the tech world is somewhat daunting to me. Mahalo for any advice you could give me.

[@cx3268]

Oh no can't install my favorite Google app that spies on me! Glad you called J6 as a riot and not as an insurrection!

[@ClickClack_Bam]

GTFO. The Police are on video removing the barriers & waving people into the buildings

[@BadDadio]

Is there a comprehensive list of apps that don't work on de-googled phone?

[@AshGreen359]

I once saw a video on how to remove the secret battery that let's the phone be tracked while turned off

[@stevengraham8841]

What video

[@AshGreen359]

@@stevengraham8841 I don't remember, it was years ago.

[@robertarnobit5357]

I love the way you think 👍 i will visit your store. So does that mean i could no longer use my Galaxy note 20 phone? Please let me know.

[@Freedom_Rider915]

I will leave at home or run the battery down till the phone will shut down but I believe that there is enough charge to run and report for days.

[@paultracer3787]

For most of us I guess its already too late.

[@Wandfigur]

I keep thinking that. But is it really? I thought the same thing 5 years ago and boy did life change in those 5 years. I don't know...

[@billynomates920]

great video rob. jan 6 really bringing this home to people.

[@linuxrant]

I find this line of reasoning appealing. Initially I would've thought going dual-phone gets the worst of both worlds, where actually it is the best of them. But since I went full on Linux, and I work for myself, I have absolutely no problem getting a full de-googled or even Linux phone.

[@vvlassic]

What’s a good Linux phone?

[@MsHojat]

Consider using Dual-boot on a single device.

[@MsHojat]

You mentioned the option for some people to use two phones, but what about dual boot? obviously it's a bit more complicated, and a bit more of a hassle in some ways, but in other ways it's less of a hassle (don't need to charge and carry around 2 devices all the time), and certainly saves money as well (especially if both devices were to have separate cell plans. And if they used the same plan, it'd be a hassle to SIM swap every time)

[@annekristiina7503]

Why would you carry 2 phones around at the same time? Isn't the point of two phones to keep one with the google on at home in a closet so it can't track your movements, and have the de-googlified one with you outside so you can communicate without the tracking.

[@dingdong2937]

Your tech genius doesnt mean anything at d end...but u r awesome

[@DaRedT]

thank you very much 👍

[@youngThrashbarg]

I thought that even if you have just a dumbphone, they keep logs of which cell tower you've been connected to.

[@MJ-ge6jz]

I use a de-googled phone for SMS authentication and other more sensitive banking stuff. Why? The amount of hack attempts is out of control on my google based phone, and I don't need inadvertent hacks causing a ripple effect with other important websites.

[@iosifd2409]

Well when I degoogled my phone I just went back to the ideea of having a phone , for calls , sometimes music , messages , and that's it .I felt more free after I done that , no more social media , no more tracking .

[@robert8]

I totally understand the concept of de-googled phone and I know how it has become a necessity in today's tracking world. Lets just assume that I have a de-googled phone, but in order to use it, I still have to insert a SIM card and I am pretty sure that nowadays SIM cards can be traced to the handset thus "tracking" and eventually precise location or may be within a couple of feet at least. My point is, okay, I am using a de-google phone, but then how can I cloak the SIM card's telemetry?

[@robbraxmantech]

SIM card is a govt threat. So understand the threat that applies to you,

[@robert8]

Okay, I got it, thanks. So, is it fair to say that de-googled phones are best for privacy, but with some concern of SIM card location tracing.@@robbraxmantech

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

The SIM card is linked to the phone in as much as the mobile service provider will always know the two are associated - they have to in order to apply an appropriate tariff depending on whether you have a contract or "Pay As You Go" service. As far as I know the accuracy of tracking through cell towers on 4G is something like an accuracy of a 1/4 or 1/2 square mile, I believe that Rob said previously that that accuracy would be better under 5G. However, those tracking records would only be available for government investigations to subpoena such records - as Rob has said. That is not the same as your phone constantly announcing its location to Google which they can, in turn, pass on to third parties at a cost - and which a de-Googled phone turns off.

[@janburn007]

The SIM card connects to its phone network by using the IMEI number of the SIM card slot that the SIM card is inserted into (& the IMEI's are usually unique numbers for each phone handset). This information may in turn may be able to link the IMEI number to the serial number of the particular phone handset being used. But there is really no way around all this if you want to use your phone handset as an actual phone to make phone calls, send SMS messages, or use the data provided by your phone carrier. In order to establish your account with the phone service provider/carrier, you would have already had to provide them with a certain amount of information about yourself as the user. And once the SIM card makes a connection to its phone network - the phone carrier will usually have at least a rough idea of the phone's location. That information may in turn be passed on by the phone carrier to, say, government authorities, if requested through something like a court order. It's hard to avoid this. Of course, you could always remove the SIM card from the phone & use alternate methods of communication through things like alternate messaging/communication apps using public access wifi connections with a VPN etc.

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

@@janburn007 I've no problem with anything that you have said but if the end result is to remove the SIM from the phone then you've just turned the phone into a "mini computer", at which point you might as well just carry around a Linux laptop and avoid Google Android and wi-fi triangulation completely.

[@xxxxxx-38]

+Rob Braxman Tech hey bro... which is better /e/OS or LineageOS4microG ? - my dev is OP 8T 12GB/256GB (KB2003) ???

[@jamescohen]

QUESTION: Can I move the SIM back and forth from a degoogled phone to my normal one in order to use those apps when needed, (leaving it at home) without problems? Or will I have to do lots of annoying setups each time I move the SIM back and forth?

[@robbraxmantech]

Yes it is a normal phone so you can switch SIM cards all day

[@jamescohen]

Thank you! Will you have a Pixel 7 available soon? I'll get one as soon as yuo do I think at this point. This video was very good.@@robbraxmantech

[@lihtan]

You can swap SIM cards between devices no problem, but then the carrier will know for sure that both devices belong to you. I better approach might be to use tethering, so that your carrier only ever sees one device.

[@barrellcooper6490]

Thanks for all you do!!!

[@bzylvn]

Thank you for the great info. Since phones and computers are always in need us O/W updates, I would be curious how this DeGoogle O/S is updated? What about your own brand of deGoogled phone?

[@robbraxmantech]

Phones receive updates like usual. We provide updates to our own OS of course. Whoever makes the OS supplies updates.

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

If you de-Google the phone yourself using a phone supported by Lineage OS, they will also provide OTA (Over The Air) updates. But do note that there are a lot of unofficial Lineage builds out there which would not get those updates.

[@janburn007]

I have a BraX2 de-Googled phone - for which here have already been a number of over the air updates of the Operating System (BraxOS). In terms of updating the apps on the phone - there are a number of sources/sites from which one can download & install apps on the phone & those same sources/sites also provide updates for the apps on a regular basis.

[@bricks-mortar]

Privacy concerns? You need two phones.

[@ginogomez5401]

Rob, is there anything available that just uses txt messaging? Almost like a pager, but that only TXT-messages. I understand that the phone provider will always look to track people but I think there would be a market for this.

[@robbraxmantech]

In the US there are very few choices of this type and I can't recommend any. A de-Googled phone is the safest bet even if you just did texting

[@voreshbo7031]

And old method for safe communication is to make a account at an encrypted Email service like eprivo or tempory Mail , and to write a mail, but not send it, and have a time a day to check for new mail, only you and the other party has the code to log in , if the mail is not send, it cant be traced right?

[@GaryCameron780]

Ignore the haters dude. Regardless of what you say and how truthful you are there will always be idiots.

[@tflics]

Thank you for putting out this content! I always look forward to your next video.

[@Ohem1]

I still would like to use some of google’s services, like Google Maps, find my Android etc because it’s just that practical. Is it possible to sandbox them?

[@desertodavid]

13:00 "USING BOTH KINDS OF PHONES" This is the conclusion that I'm drawing as I try to decide which the Google phone I'm going to get. I currently have an Android with a removable battery that I'm thinking about hanging on to. The problem is I don't make a whole lot of money. Not sure if I can afford two phone bills.

[@Mountainmonths]

yeah I've been degoogled for awhile. I don't need banking or gps tracking on my phone, thanks

[@peterg219]

"Big tech and the state" = same chocolate different wrapper. The state is a corporation, just like big tech corporations. All corporations have a similar mantra namely "the bottomline is king." They're all in it for power, control and profit. So, when did your country become a corporation? In Australia for example, back in 1973 the average Aussie thought it a clever idea to create a more efficient public service by corporatizing what was the "Government of the Commonwealth of Australia" (the dejure/ real system) and created the AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT (the defacto/ fake system). Like many other corporatized nations they are registered offshore in Washington DC. Australia, since 1973 has a foreign entity running what used to be our commonwealth. Now think of the word "corporation" break it down... corp (as in corpse) and oration (as in speaking). The "dead speak". Yep, note the use of ALL CAPITAL LETTER NAMES, the same type used for names on a tombstone. Now, look at your credit card... wonder no longer why GOVERNMENT does listen to you. Big tech and governance (newspeak for what was government) are one in the same.

[@dondaper9344]

Thank you for making such an informative video.

[@keithdavis7595]

Awesome video! I use my phone's hotspot for internet at work. I'm assuming this will work on a degoogled phone?

[@baxrok2.]

Thank you!

[@trujm2959]

Hi Rob! Thank you for the work you do! Do you know if a deGoodled device from your website would be compatible with the Pure Talk provider?

[@MoaA-d2o]

and I love the truth the more the better...im grateful thank you for all you do and your willingness to tell the truth..God bless you bro love you

[@dougphillips5686]

Is BraxOS open source? If so, where would I find it

[@q3c6y67]

Hello Rob. Enjoy your videos. Educational. I noticed that all spam messages have stopped after loosing my iPhone 8, stopping the number and the carrier also black listed the phone. The new iPhone SE (not ready to make the de-googled jump) no longer gets the spam messages and my same phone number is reactivated. Do you know why this happened? Thank you in advance for any information.

[@MikeSmith-is1yy]

When are you getting more Brax Phones?

[@robbraxmantech]

New model is in the works. But it is not meant to work with Verizon. So for Verizon, the Pixels we have are the best option.

[@ningayeti]

Mr. Braxman, Does using an Android 1.) without a sim card 2.) on public wifi 3.)with a VPN offer even a modicum of privacy protection???

[@robbraxmantech]

Not really. Unless it is a secondary phone like I describe in the video. The Google ID is connected to the phone and Google knows the IMEI, IMSI, IP Address. Only a de-Googled phone can block that

[@radui7468]

Is it possible to have a de-google phone and install some virtual environment with a normal phone on it that you can start/stop whenever you want? Is this a good idea?

[@voreshbo7031]

Like a virtual machine on a Computer? It sounds like a good idea... Not sure, me and my friend share a Email adress, we never send the actual mail, just write it and leave it, 2 times a day we check if something has been added to the message, but we never send it

[@voreshbo7031]

U now, write a 'Draft' and leave it like a draft.

[@radui7468]

@@voreshbo7031 Yes, like a virtual machine or a docker container with android. It will be ideal like this, but I'm not sure if it is possible. I didn't understand the email thing.

[@Ole-G-unnar]

Hi Rob. I really enjoy your videos and I'm also heavily into the subject regarding your channel. Work with it daily (Meanwhile I type this on a google account running on a windows machine without Tor or VPN lol). Would it be possible to reach out to you discussing some topics? You have a wide spectrum of knowledge. Thanks!

[@oregonpatriot1570]

If you have an Android phone you can go in and change to administrator. After you've done that you can turn off camera, microphone and tracking permissions for almost everything in your phone and your phone still functions fine. IPhone is the worst because you can't make any changes with that.