De-Googled Phones: Inconvenient and Impractical?

[@jjflash2611]

Been using a Pixel 4 running Calyx OS for the past 3 years. With MicroG, Aurora Store and F-Droid, I run all the Apps I need without missing a step and all the privacy I desire. It's easier than you think. Will never go back to stock Android or iOS. Make the switch, take your privacy back.

[@InternetsDadGaming]

@@JA-zy7pp because ironically google's phones is one of the most friendly in terms of putting an degoogled OS on it, as while it still has googles random garbage on it, it doesn't ALSO have a bunch of junk from Samsung or LG etc., and Google Phones are easy to put a Degoogled OS on, compared to say Samsung, which can be trickier to do on.

[@TheEdge92]

CalyxOS SUCKS!!! You can't even use the ebay app because you can't login! Ohh and youtube isn't working too! So it renders the smartphone useless.

[@dannyd4339]

You're a good man. Don't let the comment section get to you. You are doing good work.

[@Real-Name..Maqavoy]

Couldn't agree more... and having a *Common-Sense* seems to be - A crime now. By some Nations...

[@freddieh5539]

I opted for the 2 phone system. De-googled phone has minimal apps, and goes everywhere with me. Backup phone is android and has all the usual garbage apps, but stays at home most of the time. System seems to work well so far.

[@porvoonosho]

So you haven't been caught?

[@freddieh5539]

@@porvoonosho - Caught doing WHAT? I haven't do e anything illegal.....yet. But I'm not making any promises.

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

Sorry, in what way do you think this works? You are identified by the phone you leave at home, how would you guarantee the phone that you carry with you is in NO WAY linked to that home phone? Or to your real identity? For starters, if someone else has that "portable" phone number in their online contacts database anywhere, then that's you identified. What about accounts you use on both phones? Faecesbook, for example? Google Maps? Surely you need maps on a phone you are carrying with you.

[@orange11squares]

@@terrydaktyllus1320 he's not using google apps of facebook crap on a degoogled phone. Also there is no real way to determine identity on a standard androind phone (the one that he leaves at home) if he never typed his identity on that phone or never added any google account.

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

@@orange11squares "he's not using google apps of facebook crap on a degoogled phone." So he can't speak for himself and appointed you his spokesperson then? Look, don't waste my time here. I debate offering my opinions, you respond offering your opinions because you're not in someone else's head - and it's a waste of my time arguing against what you believe someone else thinks. "Also there is no real way to determine identity on a standard androind phone (the one that he leaves at home) if he never typed his identity on that phone or never added any google account." Complete rubbish. Google Apps on the phone give them the phone's IMEI number, phone number and location. The location that phone is in most of the time, or at night time, gives Google an address and therefore access to a database provides a small number of identities that can be living at that address. To be any more anonymous than that, given Google got all that info for free before anything else happened, you'd have to guarantee that you do not have other contacts in the phone's database or that no-one else has the owner's name against that phone number in their online contacts too. And unless you are very strict with that phone usage, then the chances of that not happening are close to zero. Identified. And all without any Google account on the phone.

[@Menjari]

I used to work at a pawn shop. Amazon would always recommend the products related to what the customers were bringing in or buying, as we would talk about it. So 100% they do listen.

[@oswaldjh]

Just a reminder. The couple that took pictures of their toddlers rash to email to their Doctor and the phone reported them to the Apple mothership. It took a year for this family to get their life back because of the Police Investigation of the parents for child porn. They had nothing to hide, same as you.

[@truthnotfeelings]

Great comment. It is not about ‘if you are doing something wrong’. It is about ‘if whoever is spying on you *thinks* you are doing something wrong’

[@Reub3]

@@truthnotfeelings BAM! Well put. I'm gonna use that.

[@C0SSTY]

If that family still uses iPhone products after this then the world is doomed.

[@tiffaspur]

Omg 😱

[@SolidSnake240]

​@@truthnotfeelingsUnfortunately a majority of people aren't even aware of this and/or don't care.

[@ginogomez5401]

Thank you Rob for opening our eyes! As technology advances, I definitely leaning towards this De-googled phone or no phone at all. It definitely is an inconvenience, but we were just fine in the 80's!

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

"Leaning towards" means absolutely nothing, it is still complete non-commitment on your part. The choice is simple - "privacy or convenience". With that said, by doing some learning and doing things differently, it does become convenient once again. But nothing changes until you do it - either buying a de-Googled phone or installing it yourself.

[@bernardmueller5676]

De-googled phones don't work. I can't use banking apps, I can't use PingID - which I absolutely need for my work.

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

@@bernardmueller5676 The don't de-Google a phone and sacrifice your privacy because you need those apps. That is the choice you make, live with it. At least you now make that choice being better informed and understanding the "tug-of-war" battle you face between privacy or convenience. What has kept you? Rob has been saying this same message for a few years now, there's nothing new here.

[@sixdollarman1362]

@@terrydaktyllus1320 "Leaning towards" means whatever to the person who posted it, Maybe, he or she is not able to commit because of finances or other stuff that's none of your business. Your post makes you sound like a condescending jerk.

[@ginogomez5401]

@@bernardmueller5676 I think that just depends on the person. I don't need banking apps or social media or much of anything else except for communication. Like Rob explained, it's just so much of an inconvenienced because we are so spoiled by them. Privacy vs convenience. As tech gets better and better, you can bet it's going to get worse (as far as privacy). I would love to be able to use my little Nokia analog phone that was half the size of these phones. Phone call and or a txt is all I need.

[@westhigh1976]

Hi Rob...great information...let me take it a step further...concerning the Uber Lyft problem...why not just call a Taxi...Uber and Lyft have gotten so expensive anyway...Taxi's are all over the airports and you can call one to pick you up and take you anywhere...I use a Sunbeam Orchid phone as my no trace phone and that's what I use about 80% of the time (no internet but it does do talk, text with group, directions with map and voice, camera, weather updates ect ect)...the rare occasions when I need a smart phone I use an older Android phone...it's not perfect but it's worth the slight inconvenience. Besides, people need to detox from their smart phones anyway and the Sunbeam Orchid is perfect for that

[@lyfandeth]

BTW, on the Verizon "for emergency responders" phone selection phone, they did have one new phone that has a removeable battery. It is NOT listed as available on their consumer pages.

[@goldcic]

There is a second b@ttery. Takes bolt cutters to get to.

[@pigletshut]

Truck driver here. The tracking is part of the government's Electronic Logging Device mandate, so carriers HAVE to have that tracking. For this reason and not knowing what devices drivers carry, they install their own. Some are degoogled from the factory, or run Windows actually (*wink* Omnitracs IVG), so some of us don't worry about that.

[@98grand5point9]

While driving down the road I saw a store and mentioned it to my wife, she acknowledged it. A few hours later my wife got an ad for that store on her phone ! Never before, never after that ! Obviously google phones are constantly listening.

[@robbraxmantech]

yes that is likely

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

It's also likely that 24x7 tracking of your phone by Google to an accuracy of 2 meters put your wife in proximity to the store which then caused her to get the ad. Probably nothing more mysterious than that.

[@susansauceda9879]

Recently, I was outside of my house, on a cordless landline phone (my cell phone was inside, nowhere near me). I mentioned long range walkie talkies to my son, and had walkie talkies suggested to me on Amazon.

[@keylanoslokj1806]

​@@terrydaktyllus1320no they listen. I was at home when i talked about specific watches and they appeared in the browser. Same with other devices i never googled before. Just by speaking about them

[@Reub3]

Same stuff happens to me with amazon ads. So I like to screw around with it when I go to peoples houses. I just say "I'm looking into to buying" some random nonsense topic to see if the spy-algos will advertise it. I'm currently testing out using Trump and voting phrases out loud to see what the internet turns out through ads.

[@Mantikal]

In essence (we've all been played) - "Our phone" isn't really "our phone" - no matter how much money we paid for it. As a matter of fact, the more you paid for your phone, the greater the scale of how much you've played!!! = Shiny object for the dumb monkey scenario. There's no difference between that and you having a credit card with one million dollars in credit - and you deluding youself into thinking that just one penny of it - is "your money."

[@oceanaxim]

Thank you for this detailed video for individuals like me who are on the the fence on this matter. Yes, apps like Uber and Lyft are very handy and convenient, lately I have been finding it is considerably cheaper to use and support an independent taxicab company. With Waze, that would be more difficult for me to go without personally, but knowing you use those apps only at your discretion on a second phone gives you reasonable options.

[@robbraxmantech]

Waze works fine on de-Googled phones actually. Which is strange. But don't log in.

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

The thing is that Google or Apple know exactly which fence you are on to an accuracy of 2 meters until you do something to help yourself.

[@oldtools]

good luck. ( I've cloned this device in roombas on 70 floors in this building. )@@terrydaktyllus1320

[@patrickmullee6982]

Uber now has a phone number you can call to order a car. You do not need the Uber app. Google Uber phone number

[@dtl5623]

​@@terrydaktyllus1320 - Google & Apple also know about that stick lodged up your _ss.

[@gcz4457]

I use e de-Google phone for more than a year. I still can do everything.

[@badriyah43]

Even banking?

[@neotrixvlogg1278]

yes@@badriyah43

[@OK-cp8qw]

most banking apps don't require google services . They require a non-customised phone with most security features enabled . Which you can do even in a degoogled custom rom

[@tonyg8471]

OK Rob, your analysis sounds spot-on, as usual. However, I would like to hear you address the phone company side of this equation. Others below have hit on this point, but I would like to see what the Braxman has to say about the cell carrier's piece of this puzzle. I'm a Verizon customer, and I expect to see a Verizon employee with a spotting scope behind every tree. Just waiting for me to come within visual range. Anyway, Brax, what say you? And thank you for giving the tech world a kick in the privacy groin.

[@DavidNicholls-z5n]

There's also the FOSS MicroG services that some de-Googled phones make available. essentially you use your Google creds, it anonymises them and that is what Google sees. Not a perfect solution but partially blocks some tracking and there are at least two different projects offering a similar service.

[@johng.4959]

Rob - Great video! I have a De-Googled phone and it's great. What would be an interesting video would be finding FOSS software that replaces some of the commonly used software that most people use. (Like Organic Maps vs. Google Maps). Perhaps you could do a video that compiles some of these so that people "know" they have an alternative. I try to use F-Droid apps as much as possible. I think many people are willing to make that "jump" towards privacy but just don't have a clue as to "how"....👍

[@BrightBlueJim]

I think I would still want to do the dual phone method. Let's face it: Google's all-seeing, all-knowing Maps app really DOES know where the traffic jams are, because it knows where each phone is and how fast it's moving. I don't know of any other navigation aid that gives this level of real-time data. So I guess the question is, if I have a phone that's used for nothing but navigation, do I still care if someone knows where my car is at every moment?

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

@@BrightBlueJim "I think I would still want to do the dual phone method." ...which then makes it completely pointless have two phones, one de-Googled because the other phone always identifies you. I do it find it funny when in the face of Google and Apple spending hundred of millions of dollars on creating the best surveillance devices possible, that people like you think you can "defeat" their surveillance with a simple "workaround". One thing and one thing only works - turning the surveillance off. All of it.

[@uss974]

gando no I1

[@keylanoslokj1806]

Does it have a SIM though?

[@johng.4959]

@@keylanoslokj1806 Yes

[@iTeerRex]

Mr Braxman, thank you for the advice, products and services.

[@PaulWestonEden]

I have an old Samsung s-7 that I could use for my non-use phone. How would change the ID on it like you did?

[@peterg219]

"Big tech and the state" = same chocolate different wrapper. The state is a corporation, just like big tech corporations. All corporations have a similar mantra namely "the bottomline is king." They're all in it for power, control and profit. So, when did your country become a corporation? In Australia for example, back in 1973 the average Aussie thought it a clever idea to create a more efficient public service by corporatizing what was the "Government of the Commonwealth of Australia" (the dejure/ real system) and created the AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT (the defacto/ fake system). Like many other corporatized nations they are registered offshore in Washington DC. Australia, since 1973 has a foreign entity running what used to be our commonwealth. Now think of the word "corporation" break it down... corp (as in corpse) and oration (as in speaking). The "dead speak". Yep, note the use of ALL CAPITAL LETTER NAMES, the same type used for names on a tombstone. Now, look at your credit card... wonder no longer why GOVERNMENT does listen to you. Big tech and governance (newspeak for what was government) are one in the same.

[@Chuck8541]

If we have a de-googled phone, and use a browser to *regularly* use youtube, and other web accessible apps, are we still protected? Like, if we do that, is that IMEI or whatever other meta data given to google and other companies?

[@robbraxmantech]

Browser cannot access IMEI. However there is something called a Worker process that continually tracks the IP address and reports that with a Google ID. Only clearing cookies will stop it. For this reason, a second phone might be the better option

[@viro-de-graphe-matician]

I am using a Volla Phone and it is just great! I can only recommend it. Build on Android Open Source Project, multiboot where you can run different OSes, 2 SIM slots, lots of privacy settings, sandboxing, etc. These are AWESOME phones!

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

Just checked it out on the web site, priced in Euros too so presumably of European origin. The only downer for me is that I consider phones to be a "necessary evil" and believe that a good and private phone is as "dumb" as possible. (Hence carrying around a small Linux laptop with me most times to do my computing on that.) I therefore don't want to pay around 500 Euros for such a phone when I can pick a used Moto G7 or Pixel 4a on eBay for 100 Euros and de-Google it myself. But thanks for the "heads up", it's an interesting phone.

[@nbi4220]

Using de-googled and backup phones is a good concept, but not without wrinkles. The first thing that comes to mind is that the 2nd phone requires another account (2nd line in MVNO lingo). That may or may not be a hurdle depending on the provider. Mint is quite reasonable in this regard, but many are not. Ok, lets assume you found a provider that gives you that 2nd line for cheap. Problem solved? Not so fast. If you were assuming you can use your old clunker phone as the backup you may be in for a surprise. All MVNO providers now require that phones used on their networks are VoLTE (Voice over LTE) capable. I found out about this the hard way and had to pitch my old phone (2013 model) while enrolled with Tracfone. This was a good time to move to Mint anyway so getting a much needed new phone was no big deal. But those of you contemplating Rob's backup approach need to be aware of this - you may need to pitch that old phone and get a new one to act as backup. For some money is no object, but those scrutinizing phone plans are probably budget conscious.

[@deckmonkey1459]

I was just swapping the sim card back and forth with the tool I left in the back of the case. A small hassle, but free. I tried to get a pay as you go plan, but the minutes expire every month and you have to sign up anyway so it's pointless.

[@Hopeful1s]

@@deckmonkey1459 That’s probably not a good idea because now that creates a link that ties you personally with both phones via the SIM card and your phone carrier.

[@westhigh1976]

People have been brainwashed to think if they need a ride they gotta use Uber or Lyft or if they want to watch TV they gotta have cable or any other pay service....if you want a ride take a taxi (no app required), if you want to watch TV plug in a set of rabbit ears to your set (free TV)...

[@TimHWolfe]

I rarely use the web on my old Iphone SE. Especially banking or anything to do with $. I keep it at home. I worked in IT for the big telco’s since 1969. Till I retired recently. If people only knew. I’ve had my Brax 2 for about a year. 👍 I’m not addicted to living with the phone on my ear. Thx Rob !

[@respectingthewordpodcast]

I use a Linux computer to do my banking.

[@RedzuanCiLz91]

Degoogle + KZbin as main?? = Welcome back.

[@tonybarfridge4369]

I disabled Google play store and a gov dept app wouldn't work without reenabling it

[@geopietro]

Rob, thank you for the video. Does your 2 phone solution require 2 different phone numbers? If so, do you recommend 2 different carriers? Keep up the great work.

[@MJ-ge6jz]

I use a de-googled phone for SMS authentication and other more sensitive banking stuff. Why? The amount of hack attempts is out of control on my google based phone, and I don't need inadvertent hacks causing a ripple effect with other important websites.

[@jimhorne8855]

Can you use any android phone or do you need certain models. Also, what do use use as a carrier for phone service?

[@ALANCREA]

Hei Rob i was just wondering with the De-googled phone if you use it to send a text message or a phone call to a googled / Iphone does the de-googled phone give away infomation so they can track you later ? and do you think they will make owning a de-googled phone a criminal offense, and could the tele operators kill non trackable phones ? 🤔

[@Crosshatch1212]

Yes,

[@lihtan]

Any phone that you use to make calls or text messages with will have it's location triangulated by the cell tower, the moment the phone goes online. The numbers you contact also builds a map of who the people are in your circle. Again this data is collected by the carrier, and has nothing to do with what device you use. No one is going to make de-google phones illegal. The carriers will just continue dropping support for older phones, forcing people to upgrade to less secure devices in order to remain connected. Any phone with a SIM card can always be triangulated by the cell tower.

[@ArtOfHealth]

Clear! Help folks out. This is a difficult message for the majority. Thank you Rob.

[@jamescohen]

QUESTION: Can I move the SIM back and forth from a degoogled phone to my normal one in order to use those apps when needed, (leaving it at home) without problems? Or will I have to do lots of annoying setups each time I move the SIM back and forth?

[@robbraxmantech]

Yes it is a normal phone so you can switch SIM cards all day

[@jamescohen]

Thank you! Will you have a Pixel 7 available soon? I'll get one as soon as yuo do I think at this point. This video was very good.@@robbraxmantech

[@lihtan]

You can swap SIM cards between devices no problem, but then the carrier will know for sure that both devices belong to you. I better approach might be to use tethering, so that your carrier only ever sees one device.

[@shephusted2714]

better to just use a tethered linux laptop and a vpn - use your phone just for mobile bandwidth and ditch the mobile 'ecosystem' - it is a smart and pragmatic way to go which avoids many of the pitfalls inherent in mobile devices these days - it is liable to be cheaper as well and you have much more performance and upgrade path too

[@ericsmith1801]

Unfortunately easy tether is not supported beyond Ubuntu 20.04. Sure, you can pay the hotspot prices to phone companies if you wish.

[@TLM860]

Might as well get a kai os device or a hotspot

[@shephusted2714]

@@ericsmith1801 that is an ubuntu problem - don't break debian

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

Absolutely, exactly what I do. And no public wifi, use the phone's data allowance.

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

@@ericsmith1801 Then I suggest you change mobile provider. I have four de-Googled phones here in Europe and there is no cost for me to connect a Gentoo Linux laptop to any of them as a hotspot for Internet access. If it's an Apple phone you have then there's no point doing any tethering because Apple know what you are doing at all times anyway. You can forget about privacy completely.

[@alexanderpappas68]

Rob, Question, since our mobile phone service provider shares everything with the state and the state has and uses tech that identifies us by voice, typing algorithm, call record algorithm and more, how is it conceivable that we are any more safer at all with a degoogled phone as the state is the biggest concern. Plus our service provider is probably, no certainly, using similar tech and knows who we are as well. Please enlighten us.

[@june012006]

One way around that is a burner SIM that you never give the number for, and use a VOIP service for actual calls. Of course, this should be on some form of degoogled phone

[@lihtan]

Separating your devices makes it much harder for someone to get a complete profile on you or your activities, because your information isn't all in one place. It's the same reason you use multiple passwords. You can have one breach that doesn't compromise any of your other accounts.

[@alexanderpappas68]

@@lihtan my point of question is based on the fact that having 2 phones only gives us the illusion of privacy. While it may limit some businesses from the data, the corrupted US Government with the present traitors ARE the enemy. They still have it ALL in just milliseconds of anything we do thats electronic. Am I missing something¿ I really hope I am.

[@Ohem1]

I still would like to use some of google’s services, like Google Maps, find my Android etc because it’s just that practical. Is it possible to sandbox them?

[@rsquaremedia-innovationlab]

i tried the degoogled phone with lineage os and i was extremely frustrated since i couldn't get google apps through aurora or fdroid. Also despite installing youtube and gmail - they just wouldn't open. that was a horrible experience which i will never do again. back to google's familiar & warm embrace LOL i've been experimenting with linux to resurrect old hardware, which has been a little hit or miss. do you have any video on ideal linux distros for old hardware including old android tablets

[@Zaptosis]

Congrats on 400k subs!

[@Narendra--Modi]

Used to use AICP Android Ice Cold Project, loved it to bits. Changed my out dated phone and gone to CRdroid, shame AICP don't support new phone. Custom ROM is an experience if nothing else it keeps you on your toes and aware.

[@flashbazbo3932]

Rob -Is there a service where we can send our phones in to get them de-Googled?

[@xxxxxx-38]

+Rob Braxman Tech hey bro... which is better /e/OS or LineageOS4microG ? - my dev is OP 8T 12GB/256GB (KB2003) ???

[@itrytobeanonymoustoo5289]

Some privacy is better than no privacy. I believe if every normie took steps to obtain some privacy it would make a huge dent into the data collection and surveillance activities of big tech and government.

[@bernardmueller5676]

De-googled phones don't work. I can't use banking apps, I can't use PingID - which I absolutely need for my work.

[@elliottdiedrich3068]

@@bernardmueller5676 De-googled phones don't work for YOU, but that is because you can't figure out how to organize your life to the way things worked only ten years ago, before the apps became popular.

[@Fixer_Su3ana]

@@bernardmueller5676 Have a seperate phone for your work, or just use your phone for work and do absolutely nothing else on it at all, especially not bankIng.

[@annekristiina7503]

Yea, same here. The one app that forces me to buy new phone every four years, is my countrys banking ID app, and they make you download it through Google play store, so I have to log in to it with a google account to download it, so the phone now is forever connected with an google ID. Can't bypass it anywhere. Also they make everyone switch up their phone to newer model so older phones are thrown away in the garbage because you can't sell it to someone who needs the banking ID on it as it won't work anymore.@@bernardmueller5676

[@ceriasophis405]

Only problem is the Stasi would be brought in and confiscate on trump up charges and eventual bought and sold Tech will catch up on the needed new firmware to secure your compliance one way or another this isn't going away..unless legally Elected leaders if that is allowed these days. Must have the integrity to follow US Constitution and legislate a comprehensive internet Bill of Rights..which grantees complete privacy from any 3rd party Govt...Law enforcement or otherwise. Everybody get to play on the same field and from the same start and finish line..don't mind me I dreaming. MONEY CONTROL and POWER are the bottom line. They go it and they won't give it up. Forget it...if it is not game over yet..it only means they are prolonging the game for more of the same.

[@9429-v6i]

but what happens with device fingerprinting in the end it ends in the same thing, since you use the degoogled and the regular phone on the same connection, same wifi, so it can be associated

[@robbraxmantech]

De-Googled phones have no identity and no exact location. So only the regular phone is tracked. I said that in the video.

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

It has nothing to do with the wifi network that you use - it's Google Play Services that sends the wifi access point names and relative data strengths to Google so they can get your location. No Google Play Store so no way Google can collect that data.

[@9429-v6i]

@@terrydaktyllus1320 thanks for clarifying

[@humilulo]

Rob, i just want to say thank you for doing what you do, Rob.

[@timothythompson4036]

Everything Rob is saying is true. Criminals know to use cheap burner phones so it is much harder to track them. The serial killer Rex Heurmann used as many as six burner phones at a time. This is the reason it took 10 years to find him.

[@norwegianzound]

And he was caught by his burner

[@augurcybernaut4785]

Nope…. Rob has something to sell you. You know this because he holds his products in contrast to Apple Goog -- instead of relative to how many attempts by the gubberment to penetrate his products

[@ginogomez5401]

Rob, is there anything available that just uses txt messaging? Almost like a pager, but that only TXT-messages. I understand that the phone provider will always look to track people but I think there would be a market for this.

[@robbraxmantech]

In the US there are very few choices of this type and I can't recommend any. A de-Googled phone is the safest bet even if you just did texting

[@voreshbo7031]

And old method for safe communication is to make a account at an encrypted Email service like eprivo or tempory Mail , and to write a mail, but not send it, and have a time a day to check for new mail, only you and the other party has the code to log in , if the mail is not send, it cant be traced right?

[@chriss377]

What happens on a Lineage phone of you login to google on Brave, or login to Amazon or eBay?

[@robbraxmantech]

The only thing to worry about is Google. Clear cookies or it will leave a web worker tracking you forever

[@marciaturley2850]

I want this phone! Thank you for making this video! So spooky who weird our world is these days! Love your content! Big thank you! I'll check your website. i'm in Nordic countries but think I saw your delivery world wide. So happy you're doing what you do!

[@BadDadio]

Is there a comprehensive list of apps that don't work on de-googled phone?

[@TheJackiMonster]

I'm currently using a Librem 5 as daily driver. Still not an optimal solution since security can still be a huge concern with it and privacy pretty much depends on your own usage. However I think it's one of the better options long-term. With a phone based on FOSS, open schematics and hardware picked for minimal proprietary firmware, it is definitely possible to get rid of untrusted software completely. Security can be improved and hardened over time. So in the future it could be a really great option as AOSP.

[@TLM860]

How is the battery life? How does it compare to the Pine phone?

[@TheJackiMonster]

@@TLM860 I roughly get through the day with it in one charge. I utilize its suspension feature a lot so it will automatically suspend after a few seconds inacitivity (similar to most Android phones) to save power. Biggest difference is that it won't wakeup if applications get any message. It will only wakeup on its own when you receive a call or SMS because then the modem can trigger your CPU to turn on. Obviously it's also required to have the modem active and not cut from power via its hardware kill-switch. I personally get probably around 12 hours from the device with very light usage (checking messages, reading a website or blog) now and then but mostly in suspension. If you want to know more accurate numbers, Purism did publish multiple videos and articles over time with numbers depending on usage. Those can be quite realistic from my experience. But obviously it depends on your own usage. The Pinephone (and Pinephone Pro) use a smaller battery (only 3000mAh while the Librem 5 offers 4500mAh). So physics will obviously limit you more. Their chips and software are not as much more efficient to keep up. But they also offers some deep-sleep suspension mechanism. If you use that only your active usage should be reduced (for the most part). I own a Pinephone and Pinephone Pro as well. From my experience I would say the Pinephone Pro is very close in terms of specs to the Librem 5. The original Pinephone is too slow because of its memory speed and slower GPU for me as daily driver. So I would recommend trying out the Pinephone Pro if anything. One thing to keep in mind though is that either Pinephone requires definitely more configuring and tinkering to make it work than the Librem 5. Purism pays developers to improve the software state of it and updates are pretty often. From my experience I would also note that the best software experience I had on the Pinephones was when I used mostly the software stack Purism implemented and published (which is open-source of course). There are still many community efforts to improve the Pinephone but you need to know how to find them or at least how to get a distro which makes use of them. ^^' Either way I really like how these Linux phones work already. The concept of convergent apps which use the identical code base for desktop and mobile is awesome. I already developed apps my own and it's as easy as moving a Python script over and running it. I much prefer it over developing for Android.

[@TLM860]

@@TheJackiMonster Thanks for breaking that down. I've heard bad comments about Purism

[@TheJackiMonster]

@@TLM860 I mean I still had to wait a long time to even get the device (waited about three years). There have been shipping delays because they needed to tweak the hardware in multiple iterations getting rid of overheating issues for example. Then the pandemic and chip shortage got into their way. One thing many people don't talk about when addressing that is that the Librem 5 uses a SoC you can find in multiple cars. But since Purism is a very small company they didn't get any priority to meet demand, chips got more expensive and they couldn't get an alternative. Typically hardware manufacturers would just switch out the problematic parts to meet demand. But since the Librem 5 aims to offer as much FOSS support as possible (even on firmware level for most parts) switching out hardware means more work for their development department. So they had to deal with that and I believe that's why Purism ended up delaying any refunds until new orders would bring it enough cash to process them. That's still pretty bad since consumers don't really care about circumstances. They just either want to receive the product or get their money back which is reasonable. So that's the most reason you will find such bad statements about Purism. They are not wrong. But at the same time I recommend checking out their Gitlab repositories. While they couldn't fulfill orders for a long time, their developers worked on the software stack very hard. Therefore it's not as easy as calling the whole thing a scam. The product exists and it works, better than I had imagined originally to be honest. I mean they have fully reverse-engineered the camera sensor and now you can record videos with a live view, auto-focus and even audio synced. From their latest posts it seems like they could actually fulfill last remaining orders hitting shipping parity. So new orders should get delivered in two weeks windows. I really hope it works this time. ^^' It would just be better if the product wasn't as expensive now. Because obviously the hardware compared to any Android phone on the market in a quarter of that price, looks kind of silly. But it's a difficult business model. Overall the consumer pays once but gets software updates for a lifetime, hardware can be repaired, battery replaced and all of this without ads, dependency to one big company or anything. Even if Purism would go bankrupt one day, you could still use an upstream kernel and run Debian on it, I assume.

[@aquatrax123]

Do not buy the librem 5 phone. It is a complete scam. I bought one and waited a year before I upgraded to the USA version before they shipped a phone. When I got it worked for about 1 week before the awesim service got shut down for everyone. It took a month for purism to send out new SIM cards. I passed and got no refund or anything back. For the phone, it is completely useless. The suspend feature that is being talked about basically turns the device off completely - you get no calls. For the battery life for real, it’s about 4 hours. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. There is nothing useful at all about this phone. No Linux app other then chess and the terminal app actually fit the screen. Linux on a phone is a good idea but purism is a scam company.

[@paezwa33]

Here’s a solution: Advocating for robust legislation to address identity vulnerabilities is crucial. A comprehensive approach, restricting access to personal data through legal channels like court orders, akin to FISA protections, can significantly enhance individual privacy and curb potential misuse by corporations and governments.

[@dantonsmaxim]

Thanks. Something happened a year or so ago during the height of Covid. There was a website reporting the location and number of new cases. I put my Blackberry Key on tracking mode to be on the safe side. One day I get an Email from Walmart thanking me for shopping there. On checking my tracking, I had stopped in the Walmart parking lot for about 15 minutes, never in the store. My “secure” Blackberry is now retired so is my partners samsung. We have 2 new degoogled phones with removable batteries running e/OS. We have 2 sources of apps, one that fakes a Google address so that apps like Uber work and the other is FOSS only apps. My tracking app now uses GPS locations only, not Google or cell towers.

[@chickenfizz]

this sounds like it would be an interesting story if it made sense. I don't know what "new cased" is... But the main part of the story is that you tracked your phone and it was in a car park. I didn't know of the inherent dangers of phones being in car parks but apparently it's so bad that you need to get a new phone.

[@balamacab]

I worked for a mobile company, unfortunate is not enough to have a de google phone to government not to pin point you. IMEI is shared to the cell tower for your provider to enable service. For a event that you described gov gather the corresponding data what IMEIs were in the area and to whom are those IME registered. If you somehow change the IMEI in your phone then you can be charge on committed a crime because it’s illegal to change or clone the IMEI

[@chickenfizz]

Cell tower pings are imperfect and inaccurate, they aren't (or at least weren't) designed to pin-point your location and in cases of poor coverage they may only be accurate to a radius of a few km, furthermore they may provide several 'possible' locations rather than one de facto location. They would be a particularly poor tool to use as sole evidence in a court of law.

[@PUAMETH0D]

Also if you buy your phone with cash, the IMEI isn't registered to anyone.

[@AKITM]

Would installing WhatsApp on a degoogled phone defeat the purpose (privacy) of owning a degoogled phone? I have been wanting a degoogled phone for years but my fiance insists on using WhatsApp to communicate with me, and she isn't concerned about having privacy because she has "nothing to hide". She doesn't even seem concerned that Zuck also has copies of her n00dz.

[@robbraxmantech]

Whatsapp needs to be contained. I would definitely run this in a separate device. It is too zucking dangerous. Combine it with Zuckinggram and Zuckbook

[@AKITM]

@@robbraxmantech Thanks for the swift reply! That's just as I thought.

[@radui7468]

Is it possible to have a de-google phone and install some virtual environment with a normal phone on it that you can start/stop whenever you want? Is this a good idea?

[@voreshbo7031]

Like a virtual machine on a Computer? It sounds like a good idea... Not sure, me and my friend share a Email adress, we never send the actual mail, just write it and leave it, 2 times a day we check if something has been added to the message, but we never send it

[@voreshbo7031]

U now, write a 'Draft' and leave it like a draft.

[@radui7468]

@@voreshbo7031 Yes, like a virtual machine or a docker container with android. It will be ideal like this, but I'm not sure if it is possible. I didn't understand the email thing.

[@ningayeti]

Mr. Braxman, Does using an Android 1.) without a sim card 2.) on public wifi 3.)with a VPN offer even a modicum of privacy protection???

[@robbraxmantech]

Not really. Unless it is a secondary phone like I describe in the video. The Google ID is connected to the phone and Google knows the IMEI, IMSI, IP Address. Only a de-Googled phone can block that

[@giselafiege7169]

I’m contemplating a degoogled phone as my IPhone for one is a Dino now and is having quirks that are frustrating me. I was looking at the price point for one of yours. Few questions would I be able to keep my number and I also saw you have a carrier service. I’m very low tech savvy so please forgive my ignorance. That said I am very aware of the selling of my data and wish to curb this and or completely reduce it! I’ve done some research but again the language of the tech world is somewhat daunting to me. Mahalo for any advice you could give me.

[@AshGreen359]

I once saw a video on how to remove the secret battery that let's the phone be tracked while turned off

[@stevengraham8841]

What video

[@AshGreen359]

@@stevengraham8841 I don't remember, it was years ago.

[@DS-uz7nd]

Somewhat ironic that one can't check out your Brax phone without signing up on your site. But never mind. Appreciate your hard work

[@robbraxmantech]

No identity is required to sign in. But it allows you to communicate with others. You can ask other users of phones right there. In any case, BraX2 phones are sold out. We only have De-Googled Pixels currently.

[@trujm2959]

Hi Rob! Thank you for the work you do! Do you know if a deGoodled device from your website would be compatible with the Pure Talk provider?

[@Provocateur3]

I hear rumors of new hardware ahead (e.g. removable batteries.) Also, I'm still hoping for a militarized degoogled phone. You know, submersible, shockproof, etc. Please consider adding one to your lineup when they are available.

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

Is your name James Bond or something? Have you even started with just a normal deGoogled phone, to see how you get on with that? Or are you one of my "OMT" people - the procrastinators where always "One More Thing" needs to happen before you will actually do anything?

[@Provocateur3]

@@terrydaktyllus1320: It's Mr. Jason Bourne to you. And stop scolding me. You're not my Mom. You're not the boss of me. Nyah nyah nyah! I had a Ulefone Armor & spent a bit to get it rooted. (Got bricked thrice.) After a year the battery swelled. Poop! I'm a tech junkie & value privacy. Currently have 3 android devices & follow Rob but none are completely degoogled. We each walk our own privacy/security path. Thanks for your concern.

[@sajiretto]

I have 2 phones the second an old iphone that is deconnected as far as it gets from Apple with most apps removed and synced to a private file sharing for video and photo upload instead of iCloud. GPS is disabled and the cameras are taped up. It's still good as music player.

[@Theowlwas]

How does one get around the ultrasonic pinging or interdevice communications and beacons that surround us everywhere we go? Those frequecies are undetectable by our human bodies/systems, yet our devices are constantly talking to one another..

[@dougphillips5686]

Is BraxOS open source? If so, where would I find it

[@ventura1957]

I think your suggestion to use two phones is pretty good. I one phone OnePlus where I have lineageOS installed.

[@nightshocker6908]

As a privacy advocate I am very surprised you are not helping people more by letting us know how to make our phones de googled instead of selling a product or why not do both. Just saying.

[@robbraxmantech]

It is not a small step to de-Google a phone. If you don't have the tech skillset, and the specific instructions for that specific model, you can brick the phone. I've tried to come up with a video to do that but there's that inherent danger in bricking the phone.

[@nightshocker6908]

@@robbraxmantech I completely understand that but for people that can do it(like me) why not and just have a BIG BOLD notice that this could make your phone unusable. I am sure most people that would want to be Google free do have some knowledge of the needed skillset.

[@janburn007]

There are lots of different phone models out there & because the de-Googling process is different for each make/model of phone - it would take a long time indeed for someone to work out how to de-Google each make/model of phone (& at the risk of "bricking" several (& possibly expensive) phone models along the way) just so they could pass that information on to others. And they might probably end up having to "sell" those de-Googling instructions to others, in order to recoup the cost of all the hours spent trying to work out that process for each phone make/model, as well as the cost of any "bricked" phones along the way. I also doubt that there would be a sufficient market for such de-Googling instructions - because people would need to have a certain level of technical ability to do it themselves - even if they are just following the instructions given to them. Yes - there are certainly people with those skills out there - but probably not enough to make providing such a service worthwhile & at the very least to recoup costs or make a small profit to give that service provider "money to live on". And there are some makes/models of phones that simply cannot be de-Googled for a range of different reasons. It' may well just be easier & less expensive (in terms of "bricked" phones created in the process) to create a new phone from scratch that does not have any Google at all. It should also be noted that it is not possible to de-Apple at iPhone.

[@nightshocker6908]

Can not see the last comment

[@Arabzene]

As a free market advocate -- as I am sure many people following Rob are -- I would counter your criticism that he deserves to be paid for his expertise and work. Why would anyone expect something valuable for free? I think it is praiseworthy that he already makes so much of his knowledge available free of charge here on YT.

[@AviKien-i2q]

No I don't friend!! I know they are not on my side! I think you freaking rock dude and I'm hella grateful for you and your videos!! Love you thank you

[@bryanrager6777]

I have a question. Now that signal doesn't do SMS. What texting app is now on the DeGoogled phone?

[@q3c6y67]

Hello Rob. Enjoy your videos. Educational. I noticed that all spam messages have stopped after loosing my iPhone 8, stopping the number and the carrier also black listed the phone. The new iPhone SE (not ready to make the de-googled jump) no longer gets the spam messages and my same phone number is reactivated. Do you know why this happened? Thank you in advance for any information.

[@finnderp9977]

Afaik many payment apps and my banks app which also acts as mandatory mfa for browser requires Safetynet so aosp is pretty much ruled out?

[@mutosanrc1933]

Can you also refer if ubuntu touch is a way to go? Why are you not supporting Fairphones ?

[@dingdong2937]

At the end..have a phone..or no phone..save urself..i love u man

[@serenditymuse]

I do the vast majority of my internet and communication stuff on computers. Thus there are large parts of the day where I can keep the phone off and in a faraday bag. Maybe a few times in your life being awakened by an emergency phone call is important. Leaving your phone on all night and able to interrupt your sleep is a dumb modern habit.

[@bzylvn]

Thank you for the great info. Since phones and computers are always in need us O/W updates, I would be curious how this DeGoogle O/S is updated? What about your own brand of deGoogled phone?

[@robbraxmantech]

Phones receive updates like usual. We provide updates to our own OS of course. Whoever makes the OS supplies updates.

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

If you de-Google the phone yourself using a phone supported by Lineage OS, they will also provide OTA (Over The Air) updates. But do note that there are a lot of unofficial Lineage builds out there which would not get those updates.

[@janburn007]

I have a BraX2 de-Googled phone - for which here have already been a number of over the air updates of the Operating System (BraxOS). In terms of updating the apps on the phone - there are a number of sources/sites from which one can download & install apps on the phone & those same sources/sites also provide updates for the apps on a regular basis.

[@daklakdigital3691]

QUESTION: XIAOMI HAS SIGNED A DEAL WITH HUAWEI WHICH ALLOWS THE USE OF THE HARMONY OS BY XIAOMI. CAN THE GOOGLE "CALL HOME" ROUTINE BE RUN FROM BASEBAND? PLEASE DO AN ARTICLE ON HUAWEI SOFTWARE - OS, WIFI, ETC.

[@zamshedrahman100]

have phone you have already used degoogled is it worth it . I have samsung would it be better to stock it or degoogled

[@paultraynorbsc627]

Thanks Rob much appreciated 🇬🇧

[@80sforever3]

Would love to de goggle my new phone but to use goverment websites needs google chrome

[@MikeSmith-is1yy]

When are you getting more Brax Phones?

[@robbraxmantech]

New model is in the works. But it is not meant to work with Verizon. So for Verizon, the Pixels we have are the best option.

[@SherardSmith]

Appreciate it, may I get a a list an price of your 4 best android phones

[@robbraxmantech]

Price changes depending on models so please visit the store on brax.me

[@user-jx7uo5jo4q]

I can't seem to find your store . I found a blog page that ask for a login . I'm looking to buy my second degoogled phone . Please send a link to the phone store . Thank you for all that you do .

[@robbraxmantech]

just go to the website brax.me and sign up

[@summitchase]

Instead of pretending a "degoogled" phone can free you of tracking and give you private communications in exchange for major inconvenience, we are better served by using secured software/hardware for special cases. Most communications aren't sensitive enough to warrant encrypted chat, for example. When it is warranted, simply ensure that you use a secured device (which is certainly never a mobile device). Same with travel. That one time you simply cannot risk being tracked, don't bring any phone. "Degoogled" doesn't mean bad actors haven't infiltrated the software you're running.

[@june012006]

Regarding encrypted chat though, it's probably best to encrypt whenever possible, because it enlarges the pool of encrypted data (I recall a joke, or meme from a decade ago with hackers asking boring people to stop encrypting their grandma's recipes).

[@whutwhut2434]

show me this secured device and software

[@willdatsun]

is there a nav like Waze / Google maps that works on degoogled phones? Also i use a android for looking at my cctv (hikvision) if i am not at home and also looking at my solar inverter (Sunsynk) will those apps work on a degoogled phone?

[@robbraxmantech]

Waze is preloaded on our phones. It works fine. No Google Maps but you can use OSMAND and Magic Earth

[@goodbloomgirl]

Hi Rob, I would be interested in your thoughts on google fi cell service.

[@kbm118]

Where can I find the source code for BraxOS?

[@robbraxmantech]

Go to brax.me. It's in FAQ and my profile.

[@EquaTechnologies]

Here is an example of the full privacy experience WITH the most of the modern features on a regular smartphone in the 2020s - Nokia Asha 210 - It has a keyboard but don't let that fool you - it is like a mini portable computer, it can do E-mail, games, browse articles and it even has Wi-Fi! I once read a forum on it and things like Reddit on the browser work just as fine.

[@goran-is6zr]

google bussiness suite with custom domain dosent work on calyxos is there any solution or alternative for this ?

[@googlecyber-x7r]

What about old blackberry with keyboard as just phone ans sms?

[@sykoteddy]

Something I find very disturbing is the way for example Google uses the MAC address on devices around you to make a network map. Is there any way of hiding this MAC address without destroying the function and features of the device? Regarding drivers, at least in Sweden you are given a work phone. I've never had to use my personal phone, and since so many are using the web and social media at work time, most companies don't want to up the odds of you using these services on their devices. So you could most likely use an de-googled phone besides the work phone.

[@lihtan]

Don't use the WiFi. Get a USB to Ethernet adapter and use that instead.

[@MsHojat]

You mentioned the option for some people to use two phones, but what about dual boot? obviously it's a bit more complicated, and a bit more of a hassle in some ways, but in other ways it's less of a hassle (don't need to charge and carry around 2 devices all the time), and certainly saves money as well (especially if both devices were to have separate cell plans. And if they used the same plan, it'd be a hassle to SIM swap every time)

[@annekristiina7503]

Why would you carry 2 phones around at the same time? Isn't the point of two phones to keep one with the google on at home in a closet so it can't track your movements, and have the de-googlified one with you outside so you can communicate without the tracking.

[@avertingapathy3052]

Alright, I'll ask the obvious. Your position can still be triangulated by your phone provider etc.

[@JohannesNielsen]

I turn my 2nd phone off when not in use. As I very rarely make or take phone calls I also keep my emergency phone either on Aeroplane mode or off as well. I am about to flash an old Android phone and load Graphite OS

[@FEETLE]

well it seems to be that we need an additional cellular account which can be pricy for some. or maybe have a data sim for just financial, logistical, and occupational purposes only.

[@Ixquick979]

Would it be possible to have Google services so that you can install and use those apps that require them but that Google services are denied access to the geolocation or even fed fake location by the modified Android system unless temporary allowed by the user?

[@robbraxmantech]

It is best to have a different device. Otherwise the device can be identified to be the same

[@bernardocelaya9839]

is it possible to partition your phone, like having two phones in one? to have one partition de-googled and another not.

[@y0nd3r]

Which service should you use on a degoogled phone? Obviously not Google Fi.

[@keithdavis7595]

Awesome video! I use my phone's hotspot for internet at work. I'm assuming this will work on a degoogled phone?

[@Zephyr9521]

Hello Rob Braxman! When a person buys a De-googled phone, that phone is already installed with another operating system (De-googled), so is it also already rooted? If it is already rooted, is this a security risk? And if it is already rooted, how do I remove this risk?

[@robbraxmantech]

De-Googling does not involve rooting. We do not root and it is a bad idea to root

[@Zephyr9521]

@@robbraxmantech So how do you make a De-googled phone?

[@billynomates920]

great video rob. jan 6 really bringing this home to people.

[@stevengill1736]

Hey Rob, just out of curiosity, how much sensor data do you think an outfit like Google collects every day? There must be whole server farms collecting browsing and accelerometer data!

[@edzanjero353]

Rob, gotta know if your Brax store will be updating phone models for more supported models...especially Motos and OnePlus.

[@robbraxmantech]

No. We will stick to various Pixels. Getting good OS support is important and that is better on Pixels. We can do BYOD if the phone is supported by LineageOS

[@edzanjero353]

@@robbraxmantech ...thx Rob. The pixels to me are a deal breaker with no sd expansion available, not even adapters.