Understanding BULK fermentation. The KEY step for OPEN CRUMB and FLAVOR development. | JoyRideCoffee

[@nikinikolakaki9346]

Your remarks are right to the point. The gap between the 1st and 3rd loaf needs to be well planned as usually most flours do not stand so many hours and sometimes it's difficult to do the shaping right. But the experiment was successful since it showed clearly the difference between the "fool's crumb" and a lacy open one. Bulk fermentation is the key indeed but as we all are amateurs, it's hard to make the time to ferment for 6 hours. No need to say, the well fermented bread jumps to another level. Thank you for taking the time to do the experiment and present it wrapped with nice music and beautiful scenery!!

[@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee]

Thank you Niki! :)

[@beeobama6091]

the first loaf isn't a fool's crumb. fool's crumb looks like a dense bread with just a few huge holes in it and is caused by structural folds rather than fermentation. the first loaf has irregular open crumb, but they are all from fermentation.

[@andrewpeterson5882]

@@beeobama6091 I agree, there's a lot of folks who post pics lamenting their "fool's crumb" and in like 80% of those cases the crumb COULD be better and more open, but in reality are just like loaf #1 here which is a perfectly serviceable and probably delicious loaf. I struggled with actual fools crumb early on in my sourdough journey and the difference between an actual fool's crumb loaf and loaf #1 here is vast.

[@mfknknb]

This is the first accurate video I’ve seen for a high hydration dough

[@sharonn9991]

Thank you so much for this! I appreciate that you are trying to show us 1 specific variable at a time. The difference is really interesting to see! Thank you for your efforts!

[@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee]

Thank you Sharon!

[@paulo4547]

Thank you very much, this is much and much more insightful then many many youtube videos... you cut right down to the point!!

[@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee]

Thank you Paul!

[@marzapower]

At "I don't believe in recipes" you got me. Love that!

[@anahieddavenport3399]

This video was so helpful. Watching you go through the steps 3 times made something click for me. My husband told me the bread was my best ever. Thank you for your steps. They have made a world of difference!

[@vincentweng6915]

And it is the first time I see some score so deep. Good inspiration!

[@capersmith]

A danish dough whisk, my favourite ‘new’ kitchen tool.

[@sweetendingsbylulu6171]

This is so helpful! I am a beginner and this really helped me understand bulk fermentation.

[@AyumimiLandia]

Thank you for the video, I was struggling for almos a year and finally could make a open crumb bread🙌🏼 Soo Happy 😃

[@m.r.furianii3920]

Well, duh?... now anyone gets it! Bravo! A lot of work put into something; deserves for it to be well done. A+

[@abdullahul-haq6944]

Understanding the science was the first step of getting good breads for me 😌👌🏽

[@Airtube-2hrb]

Well cooking is chemistry, true

[@joesqudy]

That’s what I’ve been trying to figure out tooo! I’m trying out what I learned today as we speak, hoping for good results. I want to get my bread perfect! 🥖

[@mooiyap3688]

Thanks so much. Now I understand better the effect of bulk fermentation on the crumbs. Appreciate your generosity in sharing your experience and thoughts in such clear presentation.

[@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee]

Thank you!

[@fatmaguner3161]

It is a great happiness to watch your way to make bread.

[@AmarEnergy]

you handle the dough like a pro! Very inspiring. Thank you!

[@planecrazyish]

Absolutely fascinating! your dough handling skills are amazing!! really enjoyed this video, it was quite the education on the process.

[@magnustorque5528]

"who masters this" ? You do my friend. This has provided me with a lot of information that will hopefully help me get closer to where I want to be on my journey to making decent sourdough. I've had some successes, and lots of failures. So much of this is understanding the science (right down to the cellular level and the chemical reactions that are going on), but equally important is understanding that there are a bunch of wild card variables that you have to contend with including type of flour, room temperature, hydration level, bulk fermentation process and duration, and shaping technique. Getting any one of these elements wrong can ruin your day. You have to develop a sense for what is right every step of the way, and that requires being aware of what is actually happening in the process. The baking stage is the easy part.

[@kailenpiardi2721]

yOURE SO GOOD AT HAND KNEADING WOW notes taken

[@larryboylarry5557]

Watching you play with your dough is mesmerizing--especially after whiskey and coke on an empty stomach. Really nice video. Subscribed.

[@vincentweng6915]

I like that you say "help us" understand, instead of "help you".

[@doug0964]

Thank you for the tutorial. You’ve inspired me to push my bulk ferment longer than I typically do and continue improving on my shaping technique.

[@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee]

Thank you, that's the idea to improve and try something more, bake by bake.

[@susanstarling1977]

Good video. Annoying music.

[@swallacepdx]

First of all, thanks for all your videos! They are really inspiring. I've always found it hard to understand if I'm letting the bulk go far enough or too far. Watching your videos has certainly helped as has reading "Open Crumb Mastery". Since you're now doing videos with multiple loaves, looking at effects of differences in staging, I was wondering if you could do a video or two where you look at how you ferment the loaf and calibrate your timings with a small (maybe 50-100g) piece of dough just after you've added salt+levain but which you leave in a glass (so you can judge how it rises without being subject to manipulation). The idea would be to mark the glass with the 100g calibration dough at its initial volume and then show the volume of the calibration piece at the end of bulk and at the end of proofing. Anyway, just a thought! Thanks again!

[@chunkapur5057]

Extremely long life to you, Mr. Joyride !!! This is the one thing that I only get right by accident 😕😕so happy to be getting this information here 😊👏👏

[@chunkapur5057]

It looks like a roughly 30% increase is a good time to shape ? Also can see that the dough is perfectly kneaded, bec it laminates and folds so neatly 👌

[@michaellochmann1726]

I am doing the same right now at 24,5 Celsius. Looks good so far!

[@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee]

Thank you! :)

[@RGS61]

Great video! Thanks for sharing! .. There is an interesting paradox in sourdough breadmaking .. while the process of stretch and folds and lamination during bulk work to multiply and organize the gluten matrix (often incorrectly described as "strengthening the gluten", since the actual gluten was formed when water met flour) .. the addition of the levain introduces the process of fermentation which works to simultaneously weaken the gluten, which is actually an objective of bulk fermentation .. The reason why your first loaf had such an open, uneven crumb was because the gluten was too strong and the gluten matrix was uneven throughout the dough .. with subsequent loaves, coils and time, the gluten mellowed and the matrix evened out .. while staying inside the time limit during which the gluten can continue to provide structure .. Which is where retarding comes in .. to halt the more more aggressive fermentation activity of the yeasts, while allowing the lactic acid bacteria to continue to help develop flavor, without risking the structure of the dough, and eventual loaf ..

[@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee]

Great comment too. I agree!

[@mo4050]

Thank you for this video! It's a very helpful experiment for me.

[@kidsnkittens]

Wow! So incredibly informative. I’ve wondered how to improve my breads. Thank you so much for the techniques for folding and fermenting times and explanations of what’s happening.

[@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee]

Thank you Tami!

[@tenore8]

You are a master. I would LOVE to see you do the same thing with 100% freshly-milled whole grain flour.

[@JoneRich80]

I wish I had the time and patience for this!

[@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee]

need just passion :)

[@JanjaBenic]

Hello, I just came across this video. Thank you for sharing the whole process and the amounts you used. The only thing I would like to know is the dough temperature, this is quite crucial if you are noting the bulk fermentation time. Thank you in advance, Janja

[@Gildah]

appreciate the effort, learn a few things. but the music man... I had to mute the video, 18 minutes listening to that, not easy

[@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee]

I don't "hit" the music every time. Sorry :)

[@lana11111able]

Me too!

[@KMSKHALEDKMS]

although i loved the beat but the repeat was annoying part :D

[@AlexanderRudnicky]

I like the music. If you have issues then just mute it. How hard is that?

[@stinkdyr301]

Play Edith Piaf instead! :-)

[@crankl]

Really impressed by the scientific rigor, kept all the variables the same bar one, well done!

[@arnobmondal9823]

You are actually an expert! 👏👏

[@michaeltranchina6358]

Amazing hands and patience! You are no amateur! I have found that the flour and water both have a significant impact on the fermentation process. Would like to see similar experiments with different flours and different water hardness/PH. Bravo! 👏👏👏

[@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee]

Hi, thank you! Sure flour and water have significant impact! Agree!

[@thegoodoldways]

Sourdough is a mystery that keeps one's interest for a lifetime.

[@pufarinu]

man... you have magic non-stick hands :)) Amazing work!

[@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee]

thank you! :)

[@sharonn9991]

Hahahaa i agree! Am in awe of those non-stick hands!

[@staz334]

ever heard about water or oil?

[@pufarinu]

@@staz334 oil to handle dough? Never heard about it.

[@staz334]

@@pufarinu very common actually, you think Joy's dough comes out the container like that without oil? ;D

[@lucysmith6827]

I'm so glad I found you! I like to immerse myself into learning something, from the inside, out. I'll have to watch a couple of your videos more than once, but I enjoy that. I've made breads before, but your way is so much more precise. I'm going to enjoy going through every video.

[@jackday420]

First of all, big fan, great videos. I love your simple style. Secondly, I’m sure you really like the song in the video, I did too. But listening to the same instrumental 45 second loop, for 19 minutes, drives me crazy. It’s like listening to the main menu music for a video game with no start button… Maybe explore other, longer, instrumental, royalty free tracks? Keep up the delicious baking! Laciness is a blessing!

[@nerdcave0]

Your hands and technique are so consistent, which makes these experiments great! I would love to see your typical method compares to simply mixing the flour, water, salt, and starter together at the very beginning (skipping autolyse and such). How does the autolyse and adding the salt/starter in stages make a difference in the final crumb?

[@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee]

you can see here a no knead loaf: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hJi2fpuqh9ySprc The rest of my idea remains, I develop gluten well at the beginning before the fermentation starts.

[@Lara9lab]

Was really helped me! Thanks a lot!!!😍😍😍👍💕 From Busan

[@joserescia6860]

Hello and thank you very much for all these extraordinary recipes to make a good loaf of bread. Now I have a couple of questions that I want you to get me out of my doubts. First what I need to know is when you put the bread in the fridge, which is the right temperature it should have, since my fridge gets too cold but doesn't freeze. The other question I have is when you take the bread out of the fridge, make it acclimatize to room temperature or let it rest for, say, 1/2 hour and then cook it. Besides, I would like to know which is the best flour for you can use to make those breads that you does, if you can give me a brief explanation... since you says that he does not believe in recipes, simply in flour, water and sourdough. So I would really appreciate it if you could answer my questions. Thank you very much and have you an excellent day José.

[@lurumtaza2884]

👍👍👍well done. Excellent find although very time comsuming. Bravo.

[@jeanietan5633]

Thank you Mr Joyride for sharing this awesome video and so glad that I can learn so much from you 🙏🏻😊💞

[@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee]

Thank you Jeanie!

[@suburbanhobbyist2752]

18:09 That is exactly what that is. In fact, most of them look a bit like "fools crumb" to me. Here's the thing I've discovered about sourdough. People are making it way, way too complicated and playing with their dough too much. The process in this video is a great example. A ton of regular air pockets were introduced because the dough was kneaded, laminated, folded too much. I've had awesome results by simply doing a 30 minute to 2 hour autolyse and then simply doing the fold technique (the one you did in the glass container except stretch a bit more before folding over) maybe 5 times. Then shape and in the fridge for however long is needed to proof. That's it! No kneading, no lamination, no stretch/fold on the counter etc etc. Just mix it, fold it while it bulks, proof it and bake it. Since I've been doing it this way my crumb has had very nice holes that are evenly spaced but not too big (a few decent sized ones) and great oven spring. I also think you over bulked all of them to be honest. I usually stop my bulk after they've clearly grown but with a lot of room left to grow. These look like they were all pretty much at the very end of the bulk. Makes sense because when you took them out of the bannetons they flattended out considerably which means you might have over proofed.

[@Hallands.]

Yep!

[@micheledeneuve7706]

> "I've had awesome results(...)That's it! No kneading, no lamination, no stretch/fold on the counter etc etc." Define "awesome". "Pretty" doesn't make it awesome. No-knead bread wrecks havoc on the gut lining, which is only one layer of cells thick (your regular skin has seven). Sure it "works", in that the dough will ferment, but without p[roper kneading, it will ferment improperly. Without kneading, the protein structure is malformed and the enzymes that are produced by the microorganisms in the starter will cut it at random. You won't end up with the same beneficial chemicals, not to mention that unfermented gluten is a glue. It will glue to your gut lining. No-knead bread will not give you the feeling of mental peace and serenity we all get from properly kneaded and correctly fermented sourdough. As for the length of fermentation... > "I also think you over bulked all of them " No, he did not. It takes six hours of bulk fermentation at room temperature to break down the phytic acid (an integral part of all grains and nuts that will send you to a dentist if you keep consuming it unfermented). That's why the dough needs so much kneading and other handling techniques: to reach six hours of bulk. Anything less than that and you are asking for trouble. I learned baking while fighting an autoimmune disease of the gut that made me unable to tolerate improperly processed bread. I know what I am talking about. Joyride Coffee is doing it exactly right and you are dispensing dangerous advice. "A ton of regular air pockets were introduced" Not true. It seems that you are not very familiar with proper dough handling techniques. Six hours bulk is spot-on correct. One other thing: B vitamins do not get synthesized in your fridge. Bulk fermentation at 24 to 30C is the way to go. After that, proofing at lower temperatures is acceptable.

[@raimundoneto1689]

Very informative. Thank you. I'm also starting to learn the hard way that recipes don't really matter aside of what concerns fermentation. What's is most important is to know what you're working with and don't rush as this can take a good amount of time. I've been trying to bake for almost an year now (btw I started before the pandemic, just in case) and I still don't get close to the structure in the video. But the flavour satisfies me. That's good and helps me to keep learning to get better results.

[@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee]

Thank you, I guess here there are some shortcuts: kzbin.infoUgz7R3-wMSqPB9YOatB4AaABCQ

[@raimundoneto1689]

@@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee thank you! Hadn't seen this post before. I'll have a look at it

[@robbieg983]

Appreciate your videos, you've really helped me gain more confidence handling high hydrations doughs

[@thanhtrungle5721]

Thank you, very helpful video, saved me days of testing

[@joesillas1457]

Outstanding! Wow!

[@gb57hevy3]

"Who masters all this". Not me but it still tastes great!

[@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee]

Ferments do everything, not us.That's the miracle.

[@chefwritergushan8332]

thanks for the experments, your vedio explain so many problems, thanks so much.

[@marcoacco]

love the video, the bread and the music

[@amandaslamm5703]

So I would be happy if I made any of these. I aspire to handle wet dough that well. Although 2 & 3 look more uhhhh say useful for sandwiches.

[@swell_gal]

My mouth is watering looking at these pieces of bread. I LOVE bread! I'll take a piece of crusty bread dipped in good sauce or with butter over any fancy desert.

[@selfrighteous88]

Thanks for your time and effort.

[@Bearhawk58]

When my dough is of that consistency I end up with two big mittens of dough. Without the use of my hands, I can not free myself. I sit on a chair and wait for my wife to come home and clean my hands. It is very surreal to see you manage such a sticky dough. You obviously have dough superpowers. I am jealous.

[@jobrown04]

If you have a high hydration dough, spray your hands with water. At 3:10 when he starts his folds, you can see his hands are wet

[@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee]

see here, no magic, just water :) kzbin.info/www/bejne/rITRcp16f96SatU

[@sumayyahrahman1632]

LOL

[@Dr_No]

@@jobrown04 Yes! I purchased a nice spray bottle just for this purpose (and to spray my dough). :-)

[@Dr_No]

....and my work surface!

[@jpcelestian]

Can you provide any comments about temperatures? Such as flour and water temperatures for autolyse? And, I think the room temp is too hot where I am, I'm not sure if I can do this well because I'll either be dealing with room temps that are high or refrigeration that is much cooler. Or I could setup a bedroom at a crisp 20C if needed but that's gonna use a lot of electric power. It seems like when kneading the dough in warm temperatures it gets too sticky. But I'm not sure if maybe the warmer temps maybe makes the kneading go faster or not. Thanks!

[@Rubiowner05]

Water Temp,Room Temp , Dough Temp & Starter quality all come onto play when fermenting also!

[@lynnlato1]

Great experiment! I admire your commitment to the teachings of Kristen Dennis and Trevor Wilson. Your dough seemed like slightly higher hydration that Kristen's basic sourdough but you have her technique down... all the way to her pyrex dish for your bulk. I love using the pyrex dish too. I am reading Trevor's e-book now. Its a lot to absorb (pun intended). Great video.

[@maninjapan79]

Great comparison! What was your room temperature for this comparison ? (I assume room temp will change the ideal bulk time)

[@jordansmall5814]

I'd like to know this as well

[@goldiewong813]

Hi there, appreciate yr video so much.. what is yr room temperature though?

[@ailanng811]

Hi Mr Joy Ride Coffee, I live in the tropics with 32 degree Celsius and 80% air humidity. Should I modify bulk fermentation timings since your temperature is 22-23 degree Celsius? Thank you.

[@saharmahallati6793]

You explained fermentation beautifully. Thank you for making these informative videos.

[@tomcha75]

Awesome video. So in depth and really appreciate the side by side comparison from beginning to end of three different fermentation lengths. Been struggling to bake baguettes with airy crumb. Not sure if it's because it doesn't use a starter or if I'm kneading it too much, or not fermenting it enough. The crumb usually comes out too dense and uniform. Wonder if you or anyone here can help. I mix the ingredients and let it proof for 45 minutes before folding it a few times, and do that 4 times before shaping (total of 3 hours proofing time). Then, I let it rest for an hour before putting it in the oven. Looks like you do a lot of folding and the crumb still comes out beautifully. That leads me to believe that I should maybe let the dough rest much longer after shaping.

[@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee]

Here is my method for baguettes, bit different. With early shape: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oaqzkqydfpmChrs

[@tomcha75]

@@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee Thanks so much! Checking it out now.

[@jeremydano2842]

Great video!! Thx for all the time and work. Very helpful!

[@TimTamsLOL]

The best thing about making youtube videos is that nobody can stop you from using the same 2 minute song on repeat for a full 18 minutes

[@georgebaylis7161]

Fabulous comparisons, really inspiring instructional video as always. As a newbie ‘Covid’ baker I’ve definitely noticed how critical it is judging the correct length of time for fermentation in terms of the outcome for the loaf. But you seem to have quite a big time difference in fermentation time and still get successful bread. Pretty sure if I tried the time difference (relative to my fermentation time) the 1st loaf would be a brick and the 3rd loaf a sticky nightmare to shape. Aside from the obvious skill you have in building dough strength early in fermentation(which I have been working on following your very kind response to a previous question). How much do you think it is down to a really strong active starter? A lot of people seem to suggest if the starter doubles it’s good to go - I’m increasingly feeling this is misleading as I rarely produced anything resembling open crumb, even when the dough felt really good, whereas now there does seem to be a bigger window where the bread is good with reasonable open crumb......nothing like your spectacular results......one day😊

[@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee]

If what you say is true, as the first bread would have been brick and the third would have been "soup" then you have to check your starter. It may be too aggressive, too acidic. Feed it successively on small seed. As you see "open crumb" window is large enough and very forgiving.

[@georgebaylis7161]

@@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee that’s very helpful, thank you - I tend to work with a warm dough like your ‘above the coffee machine’ video, could that also be developing the dough too fast and shortening the window of good fermentation? I do try to use the starter whilst it smells sweet and it does hold its peak for several hours, but might try taking it whilst it’s still rising. Thank you so much again your instruction is excellent 👍

[@georgebaylis7161]

Also I’m using a stoneground wholegrain rye starter and a very strong stoneground whole wheat flour (from a local old water mill) makes up 15% of my bread recipe🤔

[@dc319]

Superb videos thank you, please can you tell me where your bread scraper came from.

[@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee]

Hi, thank you! It's from a local website: www.cofetarulistet.ro/ustensile-lucru-brutarie-patiserie-cofetarie/cutite-raschete/rascheta-inox-cu-maner-plastic-19-5-x-14-5-cm-ras-3.html

[@artvandelay1555]

I am amazed that you can bulk ferment for so long. I start with the Rubaud method for 5-6 minutes, then maybe 2 stretch & folds, and 2-3 coil folds in a pan such as you use. Either way, if i go much past 3 hours of bulk fermentation my dough becomes over fermented. Loses it's force, gets mushy and if i still bake with it after the usual overnight in frigo it has a smaller ear and half as much rise compared to when i only bulk ferment for 3, maybe 3hours 15 min. There is no arguing with success on your part, but what am i missing? This happens if i use a cool box or not. Thanks!

[@سمية-ف2ش]

صراحه مافي فرق بينهم كلهم جميلات 😍😍😍👏👏👏👏👏

[@mariapapapetrou2523]

Interesting video thanks. Is there a way not be shown the as the subtitles are not easily visible to read. Thanks.

[@lesio333]

Thank you very much. Beautiful and very informative video. Thank you for investing your time to show this experiment

[@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee]

Thank you!

[@franciscolozano2901]

The paradox of “not using recipes” and then using a recipe.. doesn’t matter if you don’t write it down.. you know how much to put of everything. That’s a recipe.

[@robbieg983]

I would call his eyeballing of water and flour an educated guesscipe

[@EnduroPow]

Recipe for disaster

[@robbieg983]

@@EnduroPow About 320 coins, a bowl of water, a bucket of water, 3 buckets of milk, 2 eggs, orange, banana, any dye except red, yellow, or orange, Spice or gnome spice, gloves (ice gloves are preferred), charcoal, fishing bait, fishbowl, 2 bread, a pestle and mortar, a needle, 3 bronze wires, a cake tin, 4 Asgarnian ale (6 recommended), Any cat except an overgrown cat (a wily cat is recommended), several bowls of stew (9 at most), raw chompy (several recommended in case of burning), raw chicken, raw cod, iron spit, regular logs, tinderbox, ball of wool, ogre bellows, ogre bow and several ogre arrows (10 is enough), 2 pots of flour, pot of cornflour (or raw sweetcorn and an empty pot), pot of cream, any axe, any pickaxe, any machete, a knife, Dramen staff and branch, M'speak amulet, Gorilla, ninja and zombie greegree, monkey nuts, and some rope.

[@vinyei93]

The recipe of a bread like this is not only the list of ingridients, and how much of them. The recipe contains proofing times, volumes. For exaplme. A classic sourdough bread recipe calls for 20% starter, and 4 hours of bulk at 26 C. What is your starter is much faster? Or slower? Your bread will be over or underproofed. If you only look the recipe(times for example), you wont have a good end result. But if you look the bread, the sings of fermantation, which is also a part of a recipe, then you will achieve amazing breads. 😊

[@stephaniebuzzella1]

oh wow. are you okay?

[@ryandelosreyes9083]

Didn't like the music, but what I liked was the step by step instructions. A lot of the videos on KZbin are people explaining the process but not showing it or not showing it as in depth as you did. Subscribed!!!

[@redlilwitchy6088]

Thank you for this information!

[@mibe7672]

I said ,wow, just before you said , it's nothing to say wow about... lol I am getting better with my baking but nowhere near as good as you! Thank you for the great video !!!

[@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee]

Thank you!

[@vinyei93]

Great video Can you help me with something? Is it possible, that the flour i am using, cannot handle this much bulk fermentation? I think i can handle a dough pretty careful, but if i push bulk over 30-35 %, i tear it, or it cannot hold itself togehter, and becomes a mess. I dont know why. If i shape it at 25-35 %, it holds shape, springs well in the oven, but nowhere near this open crumb Can it be the flour? Or maybe the water content? I use lower % water, tipically 65-70%, maybe with this much water, the more proofing makes the dough slaggy? Thanks

[@claudioalejandrovargasmend5387]

Awesome, thanks!, what would happened if you left them more time in the fridge?

[@roniyahu]

thanks for the video. It is a pleasure to see you work.

[@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee]

Thank you!

[@klaskristian1]

I often nowdays bake in loafpans because 95% ofmy breads was failure. Now i have adhd and am a geek and have no problem geeking out even if i fail, but the costs of flours and the breads that i bake was not tasting good because they sucked. But when baking in loafpan i can let it ferment for long time without risking the dough falling apart. The taste is amazing because of the long fermentation. The structure is not that good but the taste is! I often add more sourdough tjan normal, about 50-60% and sometimes i add longfermented discard, a great way to use up my discards!. Do you sometimes bake in loafpan. You are that skilled that you dont need to i understand, but do you do it sometimes for variation?

[@inkimoonshine6907]

I like the music in your video 😍🐶👍🤩

[@andreazamorova3001]

Amazing work man! I bake for years now, but sadly (for the bread) i have too many interest, work and animals to be able to play with dough this way. Just noe entering the calm year period to start this :) you teached me a lot today! Thank you :) and a side question - i toughtim watching a US or Canada baker, then got confused by metric system u use, and rhen you cracked me with mentioning Danube bridge!!! Im in Slovakia, how close you must be? (In the season i will have no time to bake, so i beg you - pls become my bread supplier :D )

[@tamasszigeti4953]

That was very useful and an appreciation for making it. I have a question: how long do you knead?

[@moonbee03]

Hi, Thank you for sharing. Question: What did you ad to the dough in minute 2:03 of the video?

[@robertminski5517]

Hi, thanks for the awesome video, i have learned alot. i have only one question, why is my bread ringed with flour from the banneton and yours are not?

[@mikearst2940]

Only just saw this video. Thanks for making it. I find that my usual result is inferior "spring" and a somewhat dense, spongy crust. Depending on whom I'm asking the cause is either over- or under-fermentation, which of course cancel each other out. The question that remains is _how_ to evaluate when bulk fermentation has gone on, for the right amount of time?

[@markl7730]

Thanks for the really informative video! I usually bulk for similar 6-7hr time period, but complete any folds during the early stages of the bulk for fear of degassing the dough during the later stages. Do you find it's necessary to do folds during the later stages? Does this contribute towards a more even crumb?

[@iulian7225]

Fain ...se vede multa pricepere si pasiune , spune-mi cata proteina are faina ? Multumesc.

[@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee]

Mersi Iulian. Asta e o faina manitoba: vinoonline.ro/produs/faina-manitoba-tip-0-w-390-410-la-sac-de-25-kg-faina-de-forta-pret-de-importator/ Pare o faina foarte puternica dupa cum scrie pe pachet dar nu ma incanta foarte mult. Am folosit o faina mult mai slaba de la "le 5 stagioni" care era mult mai capabila (vezi clipul cu lacy crumb)

[@iulian7225]

@@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee Multumesc...nu am gasit pe la noi "le 5 stagioni" am mai cautat si in trecut faina asta , dar cu rezultate 0 :) ...ai folosit cumva Caputo Manitoba Oro , Barilla Manitoba ...si cum ti se par ?

[@tubacekinirer7146]

I did my starter with rye and white flour, and store in the refrigerator. Since I don't bake often. First I left my starter in room temp, then used exact measures as in your recipe. Yet my dough became so sticky, it didn't come out and was unable to be knead as you did. However I still baked it, didn't rise and has a yeast taste. Do you cover the basket with flour before proofing and do you oil your hands and the plates before kneding?☺️

[@ridnovir]

You left out a very important ingredient - Temperature! I am curious what temperature did you bulk at? Thanks.

[@DANVIIL]

What was the approximate temperature during the bulk fermentation? Thanks for the video!

[@dino0o0o0o2]

22-23degrees C from another comment reply by joy ride

[@JoseLausuch]

The second loaf has more chunks among all those alveoli. The third one looks more open and airy, no chunks in the crumb at all. It is interesting how changing some parameters can change the final result. I guess if you do the exact same experiment but changing hydration, or % of starter you'd get different results.

[@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee]

True. Everything you wrote is true. Thanks :)

[@andregayle]

Any tips for lamination? Do you spray your surface with water or just rub olive oil on them?

[@frenchbc8402]

You mention that the hydration seems to be high for this type of flour. What did you notice in the bulk or shaping to make that determination? thank you for your wonderful videos!

[@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee]

it spreads much more than other flours that have a lower percentage of protein.

[@mehdimokhtari2713]

Thanks for this experimental video! I wonder if there's a difference in taste?

[@geraldarcuri9307]

Good video. I never achieve crumb even half as open as these loaves. So, I watched the video twice, but I'm still confused. I looked at the text attached to the video. 3 loaves are prepared in the video. The text refers to Loaf 2 twice, but never to Loaf 3. I cannot follow the timing steps. I want to achieve a crumb similar to Loaf 3. Are you interrupting the 17 hour bulk fermentation at hour 6 to do the shaping, and then returning the shaped loaf to the refrigerator for another 11 hours? Perhaps a step-by-step process in text with times associated with each step would help clarify this. Thanks!

[@susanlin9015]

Hi Joy, after around 20 failed attempts, I found your channel and followed your method building dough strength and develop gluten and finally baked a tall round crispy open crumbed sourdough !!! It’s the first time for me hearing the crispy sound when cutting the bread after completely cooling (finally no wrinkled thick leathery crust!) However , today at the middle of bulk ferment , I had to run out of the house which forced me to put the dough into the fridge, I use 15%of starter , room temperature was 25degree , I did two kneading ,stretch and fold,lamination and two coil fold (total bulk time 3hrs)then straight to fridge for 8 hrs , then I sort of lost from there .. my questions are 1. When take out of fridge, should I wait for dough to come to room temp 2.if after the dough back to room temp and still doesn’t seems wobbly when shaking or seems to increased in size ,can I just bulk ferment longer at room temp? 3.after the accidentally cold bulk , can I shape it and do a cold proof as well? So lost at the moment 😅 Again thank you so much for the videos , I will keep practice :)

[@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee]

Thank you Susan. Glad it help. Depends on your fridge temperature. If fermentation was stopped will need more time at room temp. You must see how your dough looks like. Sure you can shape and proof again at the fridge, but again, everything is permitted, but you must see how your dough looks. Can't help more exactly if I'm far away from your dough. But there are no "rules"

[@susanlin9015]

@@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee thanks ! See how the dough looks like truly is a solid rule🙏

[@carolcrisp5568]

Would the bulk fermentation stage be to 125%, 150% or doubling of original amount of dough?

[@thequantaleaper]

They all look delicious!

[@rb-ex]

handling of the high-hydration dough here is superlative

[@ResepFavorite]

I came back and was eager to try it. Thank you for sharing knowledge

[@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee]

Thank you!

[@clintongormley802]

Great video, thank you. One question: you talk about an increase in volume but from what point? For instance, fullproofbaking bulks until a sample of dough, separated from the main dough before the salt had been added, increases in volume by 90%. Is your 40/50% increase measured from the last fold?

[@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee]

It is difficult to appreciate this increase. I'm trying to approximate from the moment I added the starter. I never used a piece of dough as a control. But notice how forgiving the sourdough is practically in an interval of 3-4 hours of open crumb.

[@alex.username]

According to her Instagram post, the dough is put in the aliquot jar after mixing in starter AND salt: instagram.com/p/BphIt9MHy2t/

[@sig.pizzaiolo]

Hi Joy Ride Coffee! Nice video again with nice explanation of the theory and fundamentals behind bulk fermentation! You master the proces very well! I am curious where you got your background theory/information from? Do you have some good literature advise about a nice book about artisan sourdough bread and fermentation? I am looking for something to read about background of baking bread. There are many books, but I prefer something about the fundamentals with focus on sourdough instead of yeast. Preferably in English:)

[@vickydrakou6898]

Web Book "Open Crumb" of Trevor Wilson trevorjwilson.selz.com/item/open-crumb-mastery-for-the-intermediate-sourdough-baker-1-1

[@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee]

then .... amazing book. not recipes, but passion. Trevor's book is for you: trevorjwilson.selz.com/item/open-crumb-mastery-for-the-intermediate-sourdough-baker-1-1

[@sig.pizzaiolo]

@@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee Thanks a lot!