Breaking Down another "Kenobi vs Vader" from the perspective of George Lucas & A New Hope

[@tux75]

The Immolation scene is easily one of the best scenes in Star Wars. Both Hayden and Ewan perfectly delivered incredibly with their emotions

[@AarturoSc]

Anakin: I HATE YOUUU!!

[@TheMinskyTerrorist]

Anakin was still Obi Wan's pupil even as a Jedi Knight. They still worked together and Obi Wan was still the senior of the two.

[@ShawnGilbert1967]

Kenobi was a Master, Anakin was a Knight it's really simple

[@jayhernandez5508]

Eh, from a certain point of view?

[@AarturoSc]

@@jayhernandez5508 Well, from my point of view, the Jedi are not Masters!

[@dereklopez9060]

Idk how the duel will pull it off in the show, but I heard Hayden Christensen did his research by watching TCW before playing Darth Vader again. As for the duel itself, It be cool if it's more like a prequel duel. If anything, Obi-Wan will probably fake his death, the same way he did with Rako Hardeen in TCW.

[@achaudhari101]

Hayden said it will be similar to that if a Prequel duel.

[@ariesroc]

That wouldn't work well with ANH though. Vader is the only one who thinks Kenobi is still out there and more importantly whatever they do Vader will have to look at that encounter with Kenobi still the master which was already covered in ROTS but now you have to leave Vader with that feeling again.

[@bigcazza5260]

@@ariesroc thats why it works, anakin/vader has seen obi wan fake his death, who else alive/relevant has?

[@ProJatior]

That would mean Obi Wan bested him again... somehow? Dramatically that might be a bit redundant. I mean he could be referring to both duels in a sense. When I left you I was but the learner. Perhaps there’s movement issues with his suit. I mean I would like a good explanation to why there both slow and just poking at each other narratively. I think TS has covered this before.

[@Teeple4thePeople]

Don’t forget anakin during the battle of mustifar said “This is the end of you my master,” so even though anakin was a knight himself he still did consider obi wan his master. I do agree with you though and I’ve been arguing with my friends because I do not believe they should or will fight each other in real life but maybe a dream or a force linked connection

[@arcadeheroes_coinop]

Let's set aside intentions and interpretations for a moment and ask the questions that every creator/director/producer should be asking themselves when they sit down to make these stories: -What story do I want to tell? Artistically, does it need to be told? -How do the events I've set up service the story and the characters? -Am I doing anything that undermines the emotional impacts that the story has already accomplished? I think these are more prudent to be asking for those working on someone else's creation. What it feels like though, is that none of those are being asked nor considered. It's simply: "Hey, how can we make more money and get more subscribers?" This is why we got lazy things like Palpatine returning in Ep.9 and Rey basically undoing Anakin's sacrifice or the entire Solo movie. These things didn't service the story or established characters, they diluted then; It's looking like that's exactly what will happen here. Of course you do bring up Lucas' changes to the originals - why is it that most of those changes are disliked? I think another rhetorical question answers that: Did making Greedo shoot first service Hans' character in a positive or negative way? For this case, does having another battle between Kenobi & Vader increase or decrease the emotional impact of their moments in Eps 3 & 4? You mention it depends on how they handle it, but I really don't see how it improves things. Changes to make something "better" only work when originally it was handled poorly. I don't think that anyone would believe that Anakin/Vader & Kenobi's original story, excepting some slightly sloppy early lines, was done in a poor way. My guess though is that fans will wax nostalgic about the new saber scene when it first comes out, but once the dust settles, the original battles will still stand superior and will be just fine or better without this new one existing. Kenobi is sounding more and more like Star Trek Picard - a story that doesn't *need* to be told but the big studio can't resist the temptation of milking those sweet dollars.

[@thenot-so-smartfox4145]

Finally, someone pointing out the real questions, and also the trouble with the latest star wars stuff we have been getting. It's just shit.

[@alexkazhdan]

Well, you were right.

[@EitherProductions]

Reading between the lines, it seems that Deborah's saying that she wants to honor George, but KK's meddling and script changes (which caused filming delays as well) didn't fully allow for that. She's going to do the best she can with what she's given, but I have a feeling that it won't be enough to fully save it, if the leaks turn out to be true.

[@Arkansan_Rebel]

You talkin' about the leak where the black female inquisitor turns out to be the main character? Or am I missin' a leak somewhere?

[@EitherProductions]

@@Arkansan_Rebel She's not the main character per se, but you're probably talking about the same leak, since I have only heard of the one. She manages to figure out Obi Wan is on Tattooine when no one else has, and Luke's survival is based on a choice she makes that shouldn't have even happened in the first place. The only good part was that Vader offs her in the end, but that was only to close the potential plot hole they didn't need to open up in the first place.

[@ariesroc]

I don't see it as that at all. If you want to honor what came before then this series doesn't happen because Obi-Wan and Vader don't meet between III and IV. What she means by honoring is to find a way to do a meeting between the two within interpretations that honor the previous movies. In essence that fit in while doing this meeting.

[@ariesroc]

@@EitherProductions This series is going to depend so much on how they realize it and pay attention to extremely fine details. This entire "Reva figures out the mystery" is troublesome in concept. If anyone was going to figure that out then it should have been Darth Maul. That would require adding him to the story as well as a few more episodes to make it work but for whatever reason they decided to do a final encounter with Maul in animation.

[@EitherProductions]

@@ariesroc Well, at the time, there were no plans for an Obi Wan Kenobi series and animation was the primary source for Filoni to tell Darth Maul stories. Additionally, after Solo, Lucasfilm/Disney soured on Ray Park because of allegations (later proven by both parties to be false), so doing a live-action Darth Maul would require a recast (using Hollywood logic, not mine). Though to be frank, I think Filoni and Favreau may be the only ones at Lucasfilm that would even like to use Darth Maul, and Filoni already got the ending he wanted for Maul.

[@zachcurtis1283]

"The circle is now complete." Initially it would seem he's referring to him being a Padawan as the learner, but then that would imply him now being a Jedi Master, which is obviously not the case. I think Vader was conceding that when he left Kenobi he was a learner in the dark side, which is why Kenobi beat him, but now he is the Master of the dark side, and so will beat Kenobi. Given Anakin/Vader's arrogance, and that not long after he offers Luke to help destroy the Emperor, it stands to reason that Vader considers himself a master and destined to usurp Palpatine, whom he thinks he is truly above, like he did with the Jedi. All this speaks nothing of a possible duel between them after Mustafar, meaning there very well could have been, which Kenobi obviously escaped. "When last I felt it, was I the presence of my old master." This implies that their last encounter was most likely a physical one, not a "Force encounter," though I suppose that could still be interpreted that way.

[@stevenle9960]

I think it makes much more sense for him to be stating that he is now a master of the force overall. "now I am *the* master" he's making a comparison between himself and obiwan

[@zachcurtis1283]

@@stevenle9960 yeah, that's kinda along the lines of what I was thinking.

[@JohnDoe-zw8vx]

I like this because it wasn't until the Kenobi series that I heard this line more and more and to me it makes more sense for it to mean a learner of the dark side since he had just started using it.

[@totoro5874]

In ROTJ when Luke attempts to bring Vader to the light, Vader says "Obi Wan once thought as you did" I hope we get a scene of Obi-Wan trying to bring Vader to the light again but failing

[@DynastyZwarrior90]

Well Obi Wan tried to bring him back near the end of their duel ''Anakin, Chancellor Palpatine is evil''.

[@AlexYBITW]

I always thought they should have changed the line to " your mother once thought as you do " since we see Padmé telling him to come with her on Mustafar

[@turtleisjorian]

I like that thought like mid duel they do the join me exchange. And then one gets away. Like one of them is fleeing.

[@blakedavison2171]

Wholeheartedly agree

[@wazzitgear5378]

There is also the line in ROTJ where Obi-Wan says that Vader is more machine than man. How would he know this if he was isolated on a desert planet the whole time? There is definitely room for interpretation.

[@Tadicuslegion78]

I still stand by the belief if they do have a Vader vs Kenobi Duel that in order to stay canon with A New Hope, it's gonna end with Kenobi faking his death somehow and Vader being convinced he's dead until he shows up on the Death Star

[@TheRexrapper]

That makes a lot of sense

[@AlexYBITW]

There's no way Vader would fall for that. He'd make sure he's dead DEAD.

[@dark_fire_ice]

@@AlexYBITW not only that, but if Vader thought he killed Obi, he would have mentioned that during thier last encounter. Keep Vader as far away from Obi Wan as possible, Disney does not have the talent to pull off Star Wars

[@harrambou9468]

Good stuff.

[@harrambou9468]

MAYBE that’s where Obi-Wan loses his old robes and that’s why he gets the new robes we see him in in Episode IV 👀

[@CaspianNomad]

7:57 the thing to consider is that Anakin is much wiser at this point. Think of how often he just patiently waits for someone to turn up or even allows his enemies to flee so he can track them down later. As a Jedi Anakin was impatient, as a Sith he wasn't. Although we see in the comics that it took Sidious a while to teach him the virtue of patience. This is why I believe the line "I've been waiting for you Obi-Wan" is quite important because it shows a progression in Anakin's character as Sidious' apprentice.

[@vetarlittorf1807]

I mean, TCW had Anakin and Dooku fight every other week even though Episode III stated that they hadn't fought since Geonosis and it was heavily suggested that Obi-Wan and Grievous had never fought before. So it wouldn't surprise me if they will contradict Vader's statement as well.

[@DynastyZwarrior90]

It wasn't stated that they hadn't fought since Geonosis. Anakin said ''the last time we met'' implying they met more than one time before. Anakin and Dooku hadn't met each other before Geonosis. Their Season 6 fight was the only one that bothered me because it was too close to Episode 3. It should have been Kenobi alone on that one.

[@mtgleam8723]

@@DynastyZwarrior90 Wasn't the season 6 fight part of Yoda's vision and not actually real?

[@vetarlittorf1807]

@@DynastyZwarrior90 Anakin says that his "powers have doubled" since they fought last time. In other words, back when he was a mere Padawan. Not a few weeks or months prior.

[@mtgleam8723]

@@DynastyZwarrior90 actually my bad they dueled once in season 6 for real yeah

[@mtgleam8723]

@@vetarlittorf1807 Anakin got a lot stronger in those three years, it was almost exponential. I really don't think it's that big a deal plus it was literally just trash talk. Anakin pulled that all the time, you don't have to take it so literally.

[@t14dann18]

I love how in the original star wars, Obi Wan, calls him "Darth". He doesn't call him Anakin, but he won't call him Vader to his face either, he just calls him "Darth", basically saying, "Just a master of evil, Sith". It's so fitting for how I would expect Obi Wan to think about Vader at that time... I realize that wasn't the initial intent, but at least for me, it really worked out well

[@danieljackowitz2343]

We do know that Obi-Wan is pretty cheeky!

[@MedalionDS9]

I always took the idea of Anakin being Obi-Wan's pupil (until he turned to evil) to mean... that despite Anakin became a Jedi Knight... he is still and always will be the Pupil of his master Obi-Wan... because any fault of him being the pupil is the responsibility of the master who trained them, than literally he was training him like when he was a Padawan. The fact Anakin sticks around with Obi-Wan on most things is not just a friendship, but they still "learn" even if they don't call it training after the fact... as a mentor and mentee than a Master-Padawan dynamic.

[@ShawnGilbert1967]

It just become master/knight from Master/Padawan...Kenobi was granted rank of Master and Anakin never was....it very simple Reva being the one to save Luke not so much

[@blakedavison2171]

Yeah, the key here is making sure that interpretations (inconsistencies though some may be) still fall in line with the vision of George, despite considering how often he changed things himself. I mean, ANH seems to be one of the most retconned pieces of SW out there! But, like you, I have complete faith in Deborah Chow. She seems to have done her due diligence and seems to really care about the canon. She seems to care enough about these things to interpret these “inconsistencies” with the appropriate lens. And maybe (this is a side note) I’m looking at this with rose-colored glasses, but I’m also just so excited to see these beloved Prequel (for the most part) characters in live action. That just means a lot to me.

[@Smith10]

The way I see it was that Anakin mostly called Obi-wan 'master' in the prequels even after getting knighted and on Mustafa so he did view Obi-wan as the master in a way.

[@ASOC4]

as much as I believe in Debra after Mando, I just found out today that the original scripts were found "too bleak" by KK(k), and that is never a good sign... now I have very little hope for "Kenobi"... it will most definitely be a waste of Ewan (and Hayden... and money) and just another assassination of a beloved character as with Han, Luke, Leia, Palpatine, Boba and god knows who else... also judging from the promo materials, it will be more focused on the new Inquisitor than Kenobi... oh boi how I would like to be wrong here, but I have a baaaad feeling about this... how many times did we rekindle hope, only to be disappointed again and again... with this one I hoped for a dark, gritty and introspective psychological drama showing Kenobi's ptsd and stuff, but it seems like we'll get more of shallow d1sn3y garbage... again I would LOVE to be wrong here and I guess we'll find out soon enough...

[@dereklopez9060]

I swear to God, if the leaks are true, then it's totally game over.

[@elmark3550]

@@dereklopez9060 what do the leaks say?

[@dereklopez9060]

@@elmark3550 The leaks seem to suggest that the series will pull a bait and switch with the titular character not being quite as prominent while the new character, Reva, will take up a good chunk of the series. Reva, a female inquisitor and former Jedi, will apparently be playing detective in discovering what Kenobi is hiding on Tatooine as well as the whereabouts of Luke Skywalker. By the end she will have found and cornered Luke and his family, ready to kill them. But before doing so she feels sympathy for the boy and decides to spare them and leaves the planet. Somewhat indicating Kenobi wasn’t very good at his job.

[@elmark3550]

@@dereklopez9060 I have heard about that before but I thought it was just speculation. Where can I find the leaks that say that ?

[@dereklopez9060]

@@elmark3550 At Pirates and Princesses website.

[@Vixin24]

I think it's pretty hard to hold ANH up to many of the continuity that followed because so little of the lore had been established by that point. If you want to go and compare lines like this, I think ones from ESB and ROTJ should be included too like "Obi Wan once thought as you did". Since Lucas himself changed a lot of things later on I'm willing to give Deborah Chow the benefit of the doubt, especially as she talks about honouring him. And yes you can honour him and still have some of the movies open to interpretation. Case in point the idea that Palpatine took Padme's life force to keep Anakin alive and that's why she died. It's not a dishonour to interpret the scene like that. So I think you can definitely find the balance there. I think if they meet again in Kenobi (and they likely will), it will only be one time and they will do it in such a way that at least attempts to line up with the movies.

[@originaldarkwater]

Wow, yeah, I hadn't even thought about that "Obi-Wan once thought as you did" line, but we've never seen Obi-Wan try to turn Vader back to the light, either, and it would be the perfect reason for Obi-Wan and Vader to encounter each other again. If Vader at that point is the Sith equivalent of a padawan (a learner of the powers of the dark side), then they can even make the ANH lines fit better than they do now. Here's hoping!

[@ElfinHilon10]

Im actually inclined to agree here. I think Thor really should go through he later movies to see if there are any other contradictions!

[@mrbonjangle]

Palp taking Padmes life force is a dumb idea though.

[@Vixin24]

@@mrbonjangle I'm just using it as an example. A lot of people think it's dumb that she just randomly dies of sadness and think the Palpatine idea makes more sense.

[@FJAR1635]

@@mrbonjangle I hardly disagree. Padme was a political rival to Palpatine and was one of the few members of the Senate that he couldn’t manipulate. She argued against the continuation of the Clone War and there are Revenge of the Sith deleted scenes of her and her companions challenging Palpatine’s continued use of his emergency powers and charting the beginnings of the Rebel Alliance. She was also the one thing Anakin would’ve betrayed him for at any given moment no matter how far in the dark side he was in (Vader saving Luke is a testament of that). Palpatine killing Padme whilst giving Anakin no one once but him to be loyal to is killing two birds with one stone. Also putting the blame on Anakin is in his character as we’ve seen how manipulative the Sith Master truly is. It makes sense for the context of the story and within the character motivations of Palpatine.

[@CuAnnuvin]

George Lucas reportedly once said, "Everything I have made is Star Wars. Everything else is Legends." That is the only way I have been able to make sense of any of the changes to SW, Sense at least the YV war. This means that all Disney SW, whether I like it or not, is Legends.

[@BloodandlatexFX]

You live in a world of your own design. I don’t know if I think you’re foolish or if I envy you

[@CuAnnuvin]

@@BloodandlatexFX Lol! Yes, I can be a fool, on occasion. BUT I am at peace with the fact that my head canon includes some of G.L.'s own work, that he later redacted.

[@BloodandlatexFX]

@@CuAnnuvin Hell yeah man

[@Jaegernader]

I’ve felt uneasy about the rematch because of “When I left you…” line so I appreciate you breaking it down in detail. I think it’s a stretch, but as far as accepting it, it’s going to depend on how well it’s done in the show.

[@originaldarkwater]

I really like the way you put it at the end, that you hope it will be handled in a way that respects what Lucas intended while departing from what he intended. As you also pointed out, Lucas made everything around Vader awkward in exchange for the great dramatic turn of Vader being Luke's father, even though it's well known that he never intended that to be the case while making AHN. (The story I heard is that the idea came to him when he found out "Vader" means "Father" in Swedish, which had caused some confusion for Swedes when Star Wars first came out), so I think it's fair game to dance around the dialog in ANH a bit if you can do it while respecting the intent of the story. After all, a lot of fans cite Rogue One as one of their favorite Star Wars movies, especially because of the Vader sequence at the end, while I personally feel that it ruins the opening scene of ANH. If it were up to me, I would have changed that so that Vader is closing in on Rebels on Scarif trying to transmit the plans to Leia's ship in deep space, so that Vader never actually sees her ship and she therefore has a much better case of plausible deniability when she's confronting Vader.

[@anthonyyoutubefan7567]

Exactly. I HATE that they put Vader in contact with Tantive IV; when, in the novelization and the radio drama, It was Vader's Star Destroyer, The Devastator, that tracked and witnessed the transmissions sent to Leia's starship, from the surface of a planet, with those Rebel spies opting to kill themselves, before being captured and interrogated. Supposedly, in the original cut of Rogue One, Darth Vader (and his troops) appeared in the opening scene, attacking a Rebel cell, on a remote planet. I would have much preferred that, as great as "the hallway scene" is...

[@alchapo5372]

2 lines that perhaps hint to a meeting between Mustafar and the death star From A New Hope Vader - "you should not have come back." From Return of the Jedi Vader - "Obi-Wan once thought as you" These two lines can imply that there was a time Kenobi actively sought out Vader with the intention of saving Anakin, and this failed. Leaving Obi-Wan to escape with his life.

[@dougstephens1979]

Thor, you're the best at what you do. Great analysis. And with Force visions, and maybe even Vader feeling fear!? in confronting Kenobi again, we have to hope for inspired interpretations. And of course, remember that George was trying to make a complete story in one film, as Star Wars was expected to fail, as crazy as that seems to us now. Thanks

[@anthonycasale1625]

"I sense something, a presence I've not felt since...." Perhaps the reason Vader didn't immediately board the falcon searching for Kenobi was because he was convinced that Kenobi was already dead. Maybe he had to meditate on it in order to be sure, or even consult the Emperor. Then later he puts two and two together and comes to the conclusion that Obi-Wan is, indeed, alive and had come aboard via the Falcon and he informs Tarkin of this.

[@travismiller4320]

3:27 rather lucky Sir Alec gave that look of thought that I interpret to be “should I tell him or not” with a slight hesitation or concern for him knowing the truth that had not been decided yet by Lucas

[@ariesroc]

When Vader felt Obi-Wan's presence in ANH he didn't fly off the handle and rip the ship apart. He waited for Obi-Wan. When Vader felt Luke's presence on the shuttle in ROTJ he didn't fly off the handle and capture the ship. He waited for Luke. He learned patience is also a virtue for the Dark side because when he was impatient in ROTS he got cut by Obi-Wan and then fried after.

[@ioncewasmikey]

First time I've heard anyone else say that Obi-Wan could be mocking Vader when he calls him "Darth." My best friend and I came up with that too way back when the prequels were coming out, haha! On another note, it's pretty incredible the room Alec Guiness' performance leaves for the "certain point of view" revelation in ROTJ. Even though that wrinkle in the story wasn't planned yet, it shows in his face that he's measuring his words carefully before he answers Luke. So good.

[@panthrax555]

It's all open to interpretation. Even within the 3 originals, George totally changed who Vader was. He was originally just the emperors enforcer, subservient to Tarkin. I think even George accepted that things were open to interpretation. As long as it doesn't change the original trilogy in abhorrent ways it should be ok.

[@ariesroc]

He was not subservient to Tarkin. He simply respected Tarkin and wasn't going to outright embarrass him by killing one of this underlings in front of everyone. Both were equally subservient to the Emperor.

[@nathandavis7377]

I like the idea that Vader is referring to their meeting in the new series when he speaks of being a learner last time they met. It makes sense to me that he would go into this confrontation assuming he will get his revenge. It seems fitting that he might not accept a second loss against Obi-Wan as a matter of skill, but instead brush it off saying that he was still getting used to combat in his new body and simply hadn’t reached his full potential.

[@ColtonRDean]

We must assume they’ll mess it up, and be pleasantly surprised if they don’t. Mandalorian was so good we let our guard down for BOBF. They need to stop making movies and TV shows that orbit the Skywalker saga. They need to start fresh with a new story based in the past or future, and plan out a 10-year run.

[@FivesNZ]

That's what I liked about season 1 mandalorian, I wasn't a fan of season 2 as it had too many characters like boba, no katan, ahsoka and luke and it became like a marvel move and try to tie all characters everywhere which is lame.

[@jkdbuck7670]

Colton, their mission is to retcon and destroy. They can't bring themselves to come up with something else. This is revisionism.

[@TreborPaulson]

I always thought a LOT more time had passed since they had seen one another, even longer than the prequels stated. When Obi Wan says “before the dark times” and Tarkin says “surely he must be dead by now” made me think a looooong time must have passed. But I was a kid then, and thought someone who was 30 was ancient

[@Alec11_43]

If they know what’s good for them, this encounter between them must to some degree happen “from a certain point of view”.

[@PresidentMystry]

I realize that there are lines in A New Hope that contradict a fight between Darth Vader And Obi-Wan in between Episode III and Episode IV, but most people forget, or don’t realize or possibly don’t even know about a line of dialogue between Luke and Vader in Episode VI. Starting at 01:23:25 of the film, Luke gives himself up to Vader. They have some dialogue where Luke tries to convince Vader that good is still in him and he can come back to the light side. After a bit more dialogue, Vader says the line, “Obi-wan once thought as you do.” at 01:24:50. That line would indicate that there was some sort of confrontation or some sort of interaction between them where Obi-Wan tried to bring him back to the light, because at the end of Episode III, Obi-Wan had lost hope in him, saying he truly was lost. So the only way for the Return of the Jedi line to be true is for some sort of interaction between the two. However, I do see the points from Episode IV, but I feel it can really be left up to interpretation based on those two films Edit: Plus the line about him being the learner but now being the master could also be interpreted as him saying he’s much more powerful and has defeated the Jedis that once told him that he would not be given the rank of master, which could have been his arrogance taking over, and then Obi-Wan’s response by calling him, “Darth” could be interpreted as you said as a tongue and cheek response to possibly anger or distract Vader.

[@j-dan]

This series could add so much weight to that line from Return of the Jedi, which the prequels failed to deliver on. With what Revenge of the Sith gave us, Padme was the one who believed there was still good in Anakin. Obi-Wan was ready to kill him almost immediately. His grim and vague reply to Padme after she questioned him with "You're going to kill him, aren't you?" was simply "He has become a very great threat."

[@PresidentMystry]

@@j-dan Exactly. He had no hope in Anakin after seeing him kill all those children, and was prepared to kill Anakin if he had to, but didn’t when he had the chance. Meaning the line from Episode VI has to be in between episodes III and IV. Plus, I do actually want to see a fight between Vader and Obi-Wan because I want an epic fight, however, I do understand why some people don’t want to see it and think that view is also valid. I just feel like modern effects could make the fight so much better between a Vader and Obi-Wan both in their primes. Especially since they could only do so much with the fight in Episode IV.

[@darthreasonable869]

I've read a lot of comments about Vader just believing Kenobi is dead after whatever encounter they may have. I have a tough time believing that. I think Vader would go to any length to ensure for himself and the emperor, that Kenobi was dead.

[@bsprentz8830]

In regards to the Tarkin and Palpatine comments about not knowing if he’s still alive etc. I think you could consider the encounter during the Kenobi series might end in a way that Vader isn’t sure what happens to him at the end of it. Perhaps Vader thinks he’s badly wounded and might not survive for example.

[@ValosiTiamata]

Something most fans don't know is that the Clone Wars were actually addressed in the 1980s, but in that Phase One timeline, (yes, Star Wars actually has had more than one continuity and even visited alternate dimensions long before Disney bought Lucasfilm) the Clone wars happened immediately preceding Star wars (later renamed ANH). The factions were an army of clones that were ATTACKING the Old Republic, and a young Leia even fought during the war. It wasn't until the Prequels retconned a lot of the lore that the Phase Two timeline began (hence why a lot of later "Legends" material seems to contradict earlier material, such as Boba Fett's origins and the Clone Wars). It's in Phase Two that the Clone Wars we know today took place. Thus, everything up to Kenobi and Anakin's battle on Mustafar had to be worked to fit into the framework of the original trilogy to make the Star Wars Saga cohesive but the expanded universe events prior to the OT were largely discarded. That said, Cho has done a lot of great work, and while I'm not enthusiastic about Kenobi (or anything Disney Star Wars at this point), I feel what she said COULD make sense with a little creative writing. Think about this: What if this new confrontation has Obi-Wan trying to get through to Anakin one last time ("Obi-Wan once thought as you did") but failing with Vader himself saying that Anakin Skywalker is dead ("Vader killed your father"). Obi-Wan manages to cut off an arm (because Star Wars) and discovers there's no flesh. Vader accuses Obi-Wan of leaving him to die and says his body was almost completely destroyed as a result of this "betrayal" ("more machine than man"). This would also be in line with Anakin's BPD, which we were made VERY aware of in AotC. The battle ends with Obi-Wan defeating Vader but letting him live, stating "You may have been a Jedi once, but now you are as weak as the padawan I once took in" ("now I am the master"). As Vader lost, it could be considered a learning experience, hence "I was the learner" is interpreted as him admitting defeat without outright saying so (again, very in line with BPD, as those with this disorder regularly make themselves out to always be the victim but never admit they did something wrong - refer to Amber Heard for a real life example of someone professionally diagnosed with BPD). So while I don't think Lucas intended for there to be another encounter, I DO think with the proper writing, you can add another battle while staying completely true to the Star Wars Saga. The only question is, can Disney Lucasfilm produce such a logical argument or will they stumble over their own feet yet again? As director, Cho can only do so much to work with a defective script, so the make-or-break for that scene will be squarely on the writer's shoulders.

[@kimemia_maina]

When we say respecting what Lucas intended, the question is just what did Lucas intend has to come up. From the materials that has come out over the decades, espevially in the official and unofficial biographies 'what Lucas intended' changed significantly when transitioning from ANH to ESB, and then again when scripting The prequel trilogy.

[@ariesroc]

Which is irrelevant because Lucas' final story is what is being talked about. He can change his own story because it's his. If someone is trying to fit a story in-between his then they at least have to respect that. This is the first live action that is directly connecting itself between his movies. Not just events like Rogue One but central characters with Obi-Wan and Vader.

[@SuperMAC464]

I love Lucas, and I would personally be fine with Kenobi and Vader meeting again, and think it could be made to respect Lucas vision for two reasons. 1. As you said, when Lucas made the OT, he hadn't 100% thought of what would happen in the prequels. So he himself was willing to ignore some things and even retcon some things for the sake of a better story. So he's fine with changing things.And in ROTS, Lucas clearly intended for the last duel between Anakin and Dooku to have been in AOTC. But he was fine changing that in The Clone Wars. So he's fine changing things. Which is one of the reasons some fans don't like him. Lol 2. Most of the lines you used in the video leave totally ambiguous when they last met. Like when he says it's a presence he hasn't felt since ..., leaving total room for another duel in the series. And the lines that do have some specifics, imo, give credence to the idea that there was another meet up. Like when Vader says when I left you I was but the learner. Thing is, Vader didn't leave Kenobi, Kenobi left him burning to death on Mustafar. And in ROTJ Vader says that Obi Wan once thought as you did, we don't see that in ROTS, maybe that happens in this show. And perhaps by the end of the show, the empire will think Kenobi died, explains why they keep saying if he's alive. Because, going by the end of ROTS, I would think most would think he's still alive since he defeated Vader then went off. In the end, it all comes down to semantics. I think people have already decided in their hearts whether they're cool with them meeting again. And will just use the lines in the OT to fit what they want. Like I'm doing also. Lol. But I'm willing to just enjoy the fight.

[@Hilter420]

Sure it can happen but it shouldn't. I'm tired of eating memberberries I want an interesting story

[@oliverrosck996]

Exactly! Thank you! I'm at the point where I will be very disappointed with the show if they do not fight.

[@jeremyfields9009]

Star Wars is already a inconsistent story(thanks to the prequels) so I’m not really bothered with Disney having Vader and Kenobi fight again.

[@ariesroc]

1. It's his story to change though and he actually changed it a whole lot less than people imagine because they often presumed that what they thought happened but he never actually said did. 2. Anakin did leave Obi-Wan when he abandoned the teaching of the Jedi for the Sith. He was a learner because although a Jedi Knight he was still learning to be a Jedi Master. He was still learning from Obi-Wan who was a Jedi Master. I not sure why people take everything that Darth Vader says at total face value. That'd be like believing everything that Darth Sidious says. Vader also tells Luke he MUST obey his master which is partially true. He must obey him until he finds a way to destroy him. It's not like his offer to Luke in Empire didn't happen or Vader forgot about it.

[@thisbubblygoodness7611]

Vader and Obi-wan fighting again would just deminish their whole reunion in A New Hope, no matter how many 'changes' there's been in the story, Vader and Kenobi meeting again after 19 years from their last fight on Mustafar is perfect as it is, why retcon that with another fight? you guys just want to see Vader swing his lightsaber, but it doesn't have to be with Kenobi

[@stormhawk31]

No, it's CRYSTAL CLEAR that there was NEVER intended to be another duel between Vader and Obi-Wan after Revenge of the Sith. There's almost no room for "interpretation". ALMOST. That said, my answer is, "It depends". If they do it VERY well, that tiny bit of wiggle room is all they need to make this series, and fans will LOVE it. But, if they "Sith" the bed with this series, fans will HATE it and point to the fact that there was ALMOST no wiggle room, so they should've just left it alone. It depends.

[@greggstricke]

I feel this could be resolved by Obi Wan getting the upper hand in their upcoming duel and saying something along the lines of "I am still the master and you still have a lot to learn..."

[@Glitch_visions]

At 7:59 , I don’t think Vader believes that Kenobi is on the ship, hence why he immediately tells Tarkin that Obi Wan is on the Death Star and that he will find him alone. Another reason that he doesn’t guard the ship is because he believes “escape is not his plan” so it makes sense.

[@dayneamyx5916]

The series would be so much better if it dug into each character, their feelings and “force visions” of each other and their eventual meeting, with maybe some close run ins where they dont actually see eachother, but hallucinate each other through their mental projections of eachother and force visions. Leading up to then eventually meeting in person again. You could even do it with vader, where he questions his own ability to strike down obi wan even though he still has this hatred, he still has a slight been of light in him that makes him question his own ability to do so.

[@michelecastellotti9172]

Anakin was always obi-wans pupil my guy, that is why he didn't kill him on mustafar, he saw his failure in the eyes of the one he considered a brother. I think people dont realize just the sheer amount of emotions kenobi was sustaining on mustafar in that single moment, in his mind, Obi-wan had failed everyone, the order, his master and his pupil/brother.

[@BoyKagome]

9:32 " OMG, there's... There's just no way we can spin this."

[@jkdbuck7670]

Doesn't matter anymore. Why? 1. Lucas sold it thinking Disney would take care of his employees and respect the IP. 2. Disney Star Wars is NOT Star Wars. 3. Their retconning is the clearest way for Disney Lucasfilm to tell the world that they don't know what they're doing nor do they care.

[@dylanslittlehobbies9582]

You forgot to look at one line. In episode six Vader says to Luke obi wan once thought as you do. A line that was made after episode 4 yes but one that could still have implications that this next duel could of happen. Ps. Great video best you've done in a while to me. Keep it up Thor.

[@HelFrostKara]

I think, as mentioned, the fact that A New Hope was made first and before all the back story was fully realised (even to George) complicates things. On a practical level tho, I think it really just comes down to if the show tells a satisfying story and ofc assuming it doesn't completely derail continuity hehe.

[@DarthRagnarok343]

When Vader says he senses a presence in front of the Falcon we have always assumed he meant Obi-wan but he could unknowingly be sensing Luke. If when Padme was pregnant the presence of Padme and the twins were kind of merged into a single presence that Anakin knew as just Padme, then when he senses Luke, Luke's presence might feel similar to Padme's. I think Vader would be somewhat confused by that and then may have left the hanger to got and meditate on what he felt. Edit: Oh I forgot about the part where Vader and Tarkin talk about Obi-wan. I guess that makes my idea bunk. But that raises a question. Could Anakin not sense the presence of the twins as separate from Padme, even when she was several months pregnant?

[@albertwinborne7411]

I think you’re on to something, because with Luke there what Vader “feels” is not completely Kenobi so it feels familiar but also different which is why Vader doesn’t immediately board the Falcon to find Kenobi.

[@socialaccount0000]

Imo best case scenario is a Force Vision Duel between obi-wan and vader, a sorta mental battle where perhaps vader senses kenobi and tries to mentally break into Obi Wans mind to learn where he actually is, with the "duel" being dramatic mostly to show the psychic battle and to sell disney + subscriptions Another way they could do the duel is do what they did in the comics, to harness his hatred, Vader will sometimes recreate the mustafar battle in his head, with him coming out as the victor in one issue, crawling out of the lava as vader and killing Obi Wan (of course all in his head)

[@BurtGjr]

When Vader thinks he sensed Kenobi on the falcon he was actually sensing Luke but didn't know it. He first says he "senses a presence, one he hasn't felt since" then trails off as if he is really confused. Imagine that he knows what Kenobi's presence feels like after all their time together but if he felt Kenobi he would have immediately known it and like you said probably taken the ship apart. And he feels a tremor but not what he knows as Kenobi. What I submit happened what he actually felt Luke not Obi Wan. Obi wan certainly knew how to mask himself in the force like Yoda did at least somewhat otherwise Vader would have known he was there immediately. Vader says he feels a tremor and the last time he felt it, it was in the presence of his master. He's describing Luke. Luke was ready to be born sitting right there in Padme who was right next to Anikan as Obi Wan stepped off the ship. Anakin felt Luke on Mustafar because Luke was the chosen one or at least a power in the force as significant as himself if not stronger but untrained not just a tremor not a real established presence but he thought it was Obi Wan. On the death star he felt the same tremor in the force because Luke is right there but still doesn't know how to hide it like Obi Wan does and is also not trained enough to be a strong presence, just a tremor because of his innate strength in the force and connection to Anakin. So Vader feels a presence he knows is not Obi Wan but the last time he felt it was with Obi Wan and as far as he knows Padme and his child died on Mustafar so he simply has to assume against all evidence that he is feeling Obi Wan when in actuality it was Luke.

[@eugeniawong249]

I think when vader said he’s but a learner it makes room for a duel where obi wan defeated him and Vader went to do more sith training and duel again in the New Hope. Of course it all bogs down to delivery but I’m open for one more meeting in between ROTS and A New Hope

[@theoreogamer2148]

Another way the Emperor and Tarkin's lines about how Obi-Wan must "surely" be dead could mean that in Vader and Obi-Wan's last encounter, it could seem like Ob-Wan was dead, but he survived. Like say, in an explosion that Vader assumed Kenobi would have perished in but actually he was not in the radius. That would also sort of explain Vader's calmness in A New Hope because he would assume that Kenobi is already dead.

[@KonaiNobi]

Because Anakin was not yet a "Master" and his master Obi-wan was, Skywalker was still technically a student of Kenobi, I think that's where the "I've been waiting for you..." statement comes into play.

[@nateosborne7361]

No views? I’ll change that

[@SharpDesign]

"Obi-wan once thought as you do.." He definitely didn't feel that way on Mustafar, so I think it will have to do with that line.

[@chrisreilly1290]

10:03 they knew that obi wan survived order 66, they would eventually find his holo recording in the comms of the jedi temple sent out to the rest of the galaxy. So the empire would know the clones were under attack by Yoda and Obi Wan at the temple. The 501st would be familiar with both of those jedi. Tarkin probably also knows that Obi wan was the reason for vader getting put in the suit. I think Tarkin is just saying it's been a long time since anyone heard from Obi Wan and probably was killed at some point hiding out in the outer rim.

[@pjack0523]

Honesty I still don't think they will actually duel. I'm convinced it will be a dream or a vision. However, I do think it would be cool if we got a scene where Obi Wan and Vader are in the same vicinity and can sense each other, but never actually interact, just like the scene between Anakin and Ahsoka in CW s7.

[@BarbedFire]

The best and most generous way I can look at the final point ends up being this: Vader's line is specifically "When I left you" rather than "When I last saw you". Taking this in a very specific way, you could say that it could incorporate both explanations you gave. When he left Obi Wan, he was not a master Jedi. In their Kenobi series duel he is still learning in the dark side. And perhaps at some point Palpatine gives him some sort of confirmation of an equivalent rank of Sith Master (Not necessarily directly). Or perhaps in the general sense, Vader's line means that now he feels he has knowledge even greater than Kenobi, having studied the teachings of the Jedi and the Sith. Thus, Vader is the Master and Kenobi the student, because he is going to educate Obi Wan on his own weakness.

[@stealin2192]

In my opinion, this could be handled by Obi-Wan throwing out a line something like "you still have a lot to learn Anakin. The dark side has not made you a master' but I don't know we will see how this all plays out in the series either way I am very much looking forward to the entire six episodes.

[@hugo-garcia]

4:02 Wrong. That was indeed a Sith name. There is a deleted scene from episode IV where Vader was called as "Sith Lord"

[@sidnew2739]

But it's not confirmed that at this time every Sith was meant to be named Darth. Hell, in Episode IV not even the emperor was supposed to be a Sith.

[@hugo-garcia]

@@sidnew2739 Yes it is. This is a deleted scene from the Death Star meeting scene where the generals call Vader "Dark Lord Of the Sith" because they don't know his name is Vader. However in the movie this dialogue was cut. This dialogue is before Tarkin and Vader enter the room

[@sidnew2739]

@@hugo-garcia I know that scene. But the emperor was supposed to be a weak puppet, stringed by Tarkin. Vader was a Sith from the beginning, that's right, but we have no clue about "Darth" being more than a regular name at that time.

[@j-dan]

I think the dialogue between Obi-Wan and Vader on the Death Star is vague enough that it doesn't prohibit another encounter. Vader says "When I left you, I was but the learner" referring to his turn to the dark side. That line would still be accurate even if they have another duel in the Kenobi series. If the line had been "When we last met, I was but the learner" then I would agree that another encounter would be much more problematic. But as of now, it only breaks continuity about the same as Qui-Gon training Obi-Wan instead of Yoda. When Obi-Wan refers to Yoda as "the Jedi Master who instructed me," you know that Lucas wasn't thinking at the time when he wrote that "Well, actually, it was this other Jedi who mostly instructed Obi-Wan but Yoda instructs all the younglings before they become padawans, so..." Not only do I think that another encounter is not expressly prohibited but it could actually lend some needed context and weight to a couple of scenarios from the OT. The first is when Obi-Wan recognizes the Death Star with his line "That's no moon. It's a space station." How did he know what it was? Before the prequels I always felt that line conveyed some kind of prior knowledge, whether he had seen it before or seen the plans for it or had actually been on it already. Somehow he seemed to know of it's existence beforehand, even if only through rumors. Encountering Vader again prior to this would provide an opportunity to learn of the Death Star through some kind of exchange, maybe Vader taunting him with the power the Empire will soon be able to wield. Maybe their encounter could even be onboard a Star Destroyer orbiting the Death Star. The second scenario is Vader's line in Return of the Jedi where he tells Luke "Obi-Wan once thought as you did." Luke felt so strongly that Vader could be redeemed that he was willing to personally surrender to the Empire and risk his own life for only just the chance to get through to his father. For Vader to make that statement, it implies that Obi-Wan had done something similar. The prequels missed an opportunity to show that. This Kenobi series could put so much power behind that line of dialogue, and the series would be worth it if that is all that it accomplished.

[@Sci-Fi-Mike]

I'm really apprehensive regarding the idea of a meeting between Mustafar and the Death Star. My interpretation of "when we last met, I was but the learner. Now I am the master," was that in the previous engagement battle, specifically on Mustafar, we had the Obi-Wan move that maimed Vader. Obi-Wan's skills still (barely) mastered those of Vader at that time, showing his mastery of the Force over Vader's. Therefore, Vader still sees Obi-Wan as the master, and that mentality comes down to Obi-Wan's victory of the Mustafar duel (their ONLY previous duel). Any new duel would involve Obi-Wan evading and would not signify him as a victor or master in the fight. That's my interpretation, anyway, for what it's worth.

[@MCsCreations]

Perhaps Tarkin and Palpatine knew about their encounter 10 years prior, but, for some reason, they think he died in the second fight... Or right after that, who knows.

[@thecount2094]

I like to interrupt that line "when I left you I was but the learner" as In when he left the jedi order (obi wans side) and turned to the dark side he was a learner. Not "when I last seen you I was but the learner"

[@CaptainRemixerOfficial]

I think that there is a fight in between and that 10 years is a LONG time

[@synanthony]

What if “the presence” Vader feels is really Luke?

[@mohammedalayyoub]

Would it work if they made obi-wan mock Vader, when they meet in the series, and says something along the lines of “you’re still a learner” after he defeats him in such a way that it recontexualizes the scene in new hope as Vader trying to mock him also with similar phrase as a reminder of what happened before ?

[@paveldatsyuk8268]

My dream scenario is a force vision fight where vader kills obi wan. Makes the most sense to me imo and keeps continuity of all the TV/movie dialog

[@wesleysnipesyah3591]

I want this to be good but omgoodness the sense of dread is real my guy

[@bigdoubleu117]

If they have another duel it needs to be in a dream sequence or a cave hallucination like on Dagobah.

[@lonelylizard1292]

I mean, Vader never implied when he last felt the presence of Obi-Wan. prior to A New Hope.

[@Tadicuslegion78]

He does say, "A presence I've not felt since..."

[@voidoflight2420]

I could see it being to where Kenobi is "killed" in the series. He fakes his death, or lets the empire think that they killed him, only to resurface years and years afterwards. Either that, or Vader failed to kill him, and the whole thing was kept a secret.

[@cacuevas]

Imagine still expecting Disney to respect Lucas

[@Malievu]

There is a precedent for Lucas changing or re-contextualising the films through extra media. I always took the lines from Dooku and Anakin to each other in Revenge of the Sith to heavily imply that they had not met since their duel on Geonosis. And indeed, I think the old EU books and comics made this assumption as well. Yet The Clone Wars has them meet and duel multiple times, even relatively close to Revenge of the Sith. Are we really supposed to believe that Anakin's "power has doubled" since the duel in season 6 of TCW? It makes sense that Anakin would make that claim after two years but not a few weeks. As such, I think the real question is not did Lucas imply that they Vader and Obi-Wan met again after Mustafar, but really would he agree with this change to the canon? As for why Vader does not search the Falcon personally, I think it's because has mistakenly assumed that Obi-Wan has already left or it has really has been 19 years since they last encountered each other, so he simply doesn't recognise the tremor straightaway or that it is connected to that ship they've just pulled in with a tractor beam.

[@willfanofmanyii3751]

Anakin and Dooku's last duel was at least over 9 months before ROTS.

[@Malievu]

@@willfanofmanyii3751 Do you have a source for that? I was under the impression that season 6 takes place close to the end of the war. Even if you're right then it raises the question of what happened to Anakin between seasons 6 and 7 for him to suddenly become so much more powerful.

[@willfanofmanyii3751]

@@Malievu When the Ahsoka arc at the end of Season 5 began, Ashley and Filoni referred to it as the beginning of the final year of the war. The middle of Season 6 had Anakin and Padme's relationship be strained but then be repaired, the end of Season 6 foreshadowed Luke and Leia being conceived. Leaving a 9 month gap before ROTS. Anakin suddenly being so strong in Season 7 is a result of all the production issues the series went through and the lack of Lucas being on board. Had TCW not been originally cancelled, those last 9 months would have taken place over 60 episodes, Season 6, 7, and 8. Those three arcs in Season 7 each had 2-3 months between them.

[@Hikaru3899]

Lucas may have never intended for them to see each other in between. However there is nothing that actually stops it. He could just mean when he left the same side or the Jedi order. Or that he just wasn’t fully acclimated to the dark side.

[@Chingon81s]

You may have already done a video on this topic, however, can you do one where you discuss what George Lucas' outlines/plot would have been for the sequels such as he intended and handed over to Disney? Thanks.

[@MetalMilitia83]

My biggest fear comes from how important this specific series is to me. Boba fett wasn’t good but it was boba, a character with 5 minutes of screen time before this, but this is obi wan. My favorite fictional character ever. If this series is bad, it’s going to hurt, especially if it disrespects what came before it by ignoring clear implications. It clearly implies they haven’t met since ROTS and that Vader hasn’t hear many rumors of his survival but that deep down he knows he’s alive.

[@harrambou9468]

There’s nothing that explicitly says that never happened

[@thebaron2277]

Kenobi is my favorite character of all time. They better not fuck this up

[@stevenvaughan1572]

Vader knows he will deal with Obi-Wan himself in a New Hope. I believe he left immediately because even though he wants revenge on his former master, he wants to truly show Obi-Wan how he can best him in a fair fight. He would know with Obi-Wan's reputation to hide that he would easily escape any troops. At that point, Vader had become more strategic and would not risk falling into what could be a trap. He knew Obi-Wan couldn't go anywhere with the tractor beam and knew he would come looking for him. He wanted a fight between him and his former master, alone.

[@Concodroid]

One interpretation could be "When I left you (after our second duel) I was but the learner (of the dark side of the Force), now I am the master (Of the dark side)". It's not perfect, but it's good enough for me until I see the series.

[@christiandaily5304]

I imagine the argument will be a matter of semantics in that when they meet in this series Obi Wan is a Jedi Master and Darth Vader is still a Sith apprentice i.e. "a learner". By the time they meet on the Death Star in A New Hope, he (Vader) will by then have become a Sith Lord or "Master".

[@ignitetheinferno1858]

While not a big fan of the idea of a new duel between them, I think it’d be interesting to have them doing a Force vision duel where each stage of the duel is set in one of the locations they both fought on the same side (Geonosis, the Invisible Hand) and against each other (Mustafar) and each location Vader gets stronger and Kenobi is steadily having more difficulty keeping up.

[@jesserodgers5625]

The phrase "When I left you" could be interpreted as "When I broke away from you/your teachings."

[@Donnel4]

I think it's important to acknowledge that George Lucas was no stranger to skirting around canon in Star Wars, most notably with things like Ahsoka, Clone inhibitor chips and pretty much everything that Obi-Wan says in a new hope about Darth Vader and Anakin. The thing is, not only is George the creator of Star Wars, which in my mind gives him the special right to do such things in moderation, but also because when George did it, it always served a purpose. These cases of continuity bending either added layers to the story or opened up new potential directions for the story of Star Wars in a satisfying and exciting way. I just dont feel that Kenobi has the creative impetus behind it to justify all this, it comes off as a show that merely exists to recapture nostalgia and generate hype for the return of beloved actors, not to enrich the original stories or add any layers to them. I have respect for Deborah Chow as a director and I think her work is good, but it doesn't really help the fact that the writer doesn't look promising and the show has been in talks for years, likely due to them struggling to figure out what the hell to do with it and signaling that this exists to be a nostalgia cash grab.

[@Noone-hx4bp]

He says: "When I left you..." Obiwan left him (for dead) in EP 3 not the other way around. There can be some interpretation if they have vader leave the fight in the series after being solely bested.

[@lefthooklarry1348]

I wish they’d just made the Legends Kenobi. It was awesome. Tell a new story, make new characters to enjoy.

[@Mavrk14]

One of the biggest things I want from Obiwan is him learning about Vader, figuring out that it’s Anakin

[@charemchavrutah]

Having seen all but the finale of Kenobi, I think the presence, and long-awaited meeting, are being subjected to a subtler, more emotionally healthy, version of Anakin and Vader lacking the same exact presence in the Force despite being physically the same person. I believe Kenobi is incorporating three different personas into his life: Obi-Wan, General, and Ben. Obi-Wan is the Jedi Master, a consummate mystic dedicated to the Force above all else. The General is the military commander, who learns to use wit and guile to outmaneuver, or outflank, a stronger opponent. Ben is a shadow, forced to learn the art of subterfuge and stealth when so much as being seen could destroy all hope left alive. The series started with just Ben, which Vader sensed as weakness. The second half is showing Ben coming into his own, and incorporating himself with the General, as he utilizes increasingly inspired evasion tactics to meet his mission objectives. It isn't until their final duel on the Death Star that Obi-Wan makes himself known to Vader once again, having found peace with himself and half a Force-ghost already. Calling his Padawan by merely Darth is, I think, how Kenobi came to this peace. Anakin is dead to him, "More machine now than man, twisted and evil." Kenobi thinks of Anakin and Vader as two separate people, and I hope the series finale shows us something of Ben Kenobi coming to that conclusion.

[@bladerunner1b]

Back around the time Maul was re-introduced into the CW I had a chat with a buddy about how cool it would be to have a movie or two set between 3 and 4 about early Vader hunting down the Jedi and maybe even having a scuffle with Maul. At no point did either one of us bring up another duel with Kenobi. That seemed ludacris and off limits. But here we are. I hope the fan service is at least entertaining and then it will be immediately disregarded as non canon a long with many other things.

[@MonkeyMagicMonk]

a new Kenobi v Vader will certainly divide the fanbase. any interaction between the two would be a disgrace from my point of view.

[@achaudhari101]

From my point of view, the fandom are dividing the fandom.

[@DeeperIntoTheUnknown]

@@achaudhari101 Well, from a certain point of view.

[@etienne1313]

I think Kenobi is going to end by Obi-Wan managing to fake his own death to escape the Empire and go back to Tatooine, therefore everyone thinks he’s dead, which explains why Tarkin and Palpatine would think he’s dead.

[@admiralseabass8993]

What are the chances they change Vaders dialogie to better match the Kenobi series?

[@itsthemumu8585]

There’s one major line you’re forgetting here that should definitely be addressed. “Obi-Wan once thought as you do.” This line heavily implies that Obi-Wan literally surrendered to the man begging him not to continue on this path. Nowhere in Revenge of the Sith is Obi-Wan seeming genuinely serious about saving Anakin from the Dark Side. Obi-Wan traveled to Mustafar to STOP Anakin. He even goes so far as to say “you WERE my brother”, and thinks he killed Anakin and EVEN lies (by withholding information) to Padmé about doing so. But as for some of your other points. There’s a lot of “interpretation” you missed. 1) “Surely he must be dead by now” This line doesn’t quite make sense any way you slice it. HOWEVER, Tarkin May believe that Kenobi is dead because Bader believed he killed him, but still had that doubt that Obi-Wan may have survived whatever happened in their upcoming duel in the series. 2) “When I left you I was but the learner, now I am the master” Theoretically, the meaning of this line doesn’t have to change at all, just as is the case with a similar line uttered by the same individual in ROTS “My powers have doubled since the last time we met.” You can easily pass this line off as “when I left you and the Jedi I was still a learner. I’ve had 20 years with the dark side and now I’m more powerful than ever, more powerful than the Jedi master I lost to 20 years ago.” 3) Obi-Wan’s Vader monologue to Luke. This one is easily chalked up to old Ben paraphrasing and to an extent lying to Luke about what happened to his father. There’s nothing that Obi-Wan says in that conversation that explicitly states they haven’t met since he left Vader to die.

[@lukejochem]

Was it really ob1 he sensed or just the light side of the force..? Could've been eminating off Luke as his awakening began... Maybe it was the kyber crystal of his old saber and because ob1 took it.. ? .. Off topic, why do sith still call them light sabers? I imagine after breaking the crystal to my will that would include a new term, eg darksaber, as it's no longer neutral/lightside.

[@mrbonjangle]

7:55 I disagree. He was told that there was no one on board. He trusted the storm troopers, and instead of wasting time, he goes to meditate on this familiar sense.

[@zachurich5046]

we know force users have a certain sense to be able to feel connections to objects, so I assume that vader may have thought there was an object connected to obi wan in the ship, and he was actually trying to avoid it due to not wanting to bring up terrible memories of obi wan betraying him. I think he actually intended to destroy the ship after the storm troopers had a quick look. Even as vader I think was very afraid of obi wan.

[@QuadZillaGodZillasbrother]

It doesn’t matter what matters if if those leaks about the ending are true then it will ruin the entire fucking series

[@dereklopez9060]

I swear to God, if the leaks are true, then it's totally game over.

[@QuadZillaGodZillasbrother]

@@dereklopez9060 Like literally the fans are going to be so disgruntled with Disney that I wouldn’t be surprised if Star Wars starts to become a nonprofitable for them

[@achaudhari101]

The leaks don’t sound bad.

[@dereklopez9060]

@@QuadZillaGodZillasbrother At this point, I wouldn't be surprised either if Star Wars becomes non profitable.

[@QuadZillaGodZillasbrother]

@@dereklopez9060 “officially there was never a Star Wars fan rebellion”

[@GrievousReborn]

I'm not a George Lucaus Purist especailly when it comes to games like KOTOT 1 & 2 and SWTOR but I still like to see Lucasfilm under Disney respect what George Lucas has done.

[@Phosypha]

I honestly wonder if someone working for Disney Star Wars just asked Lucas for his advice what he would say.

[@ProJatior]

It’s in the middle George does change his mind a lot as any writer would. He did have some sort of overall plan otherwise even the sequels to 1977 Star Wars: A New Hope wouldn’t have been any good. What Vader and Ben meant changed a lot of the production of the 6 movies. I mean the whole Leia Luke relative thing is a bit weird even just considering the original trilogy. I’m fine with the line Leia gives about her mother being force visions. That how I interpreted it after the prequels. If it’s done well I’m good with re-contextualizing these lines of it’s done well and still fits the lines of dialogue. You know how much “I’ve doubled my powers since we last met count” changed after TCW?

[@ZahnHahn]

For the purpose of a rematch, when Vader said he was a “learner” in A New Hope, may be referring to Vader receiving Sith training. It’s not perfect but I feel this is the only way around that line and allowing Vader to meet Obiwon again.

[@theroyalmediator2658]

I felt that he meant a learner in the dark side too, but even then "Kenobi" will be 10 years after RotS. I don't think Vader would still consider himself a dark side "learner" at that point (that's also 10 more years of hunting down and slaughtering Jedi too).

[@MrJahvah]

At face value, there is room for another duel. At face value, Vader says 'when I left you' but you are reading into it as though he is saying 'when I last saw you'. Vader 'left' Kenobi at the moment he knelt before Palpatine. To have another duel doesn't mean that he first must 'return' to Kenobi. As to what Lucas intended, who knows, but the loophole remains.