The importance of Force Ghosts is highlighted by Luke's 'misbelief' about the Jedi in Episode Eight

[@HighHeelKnight]

Throughout the entire Disney Star Wars Trilogy, I had one big question that was never addressed. Why didn't the ghost of Anakin Skywalker appear to Ben Solo in person to say, "Hey kid, the dark side sucks. Trust me. And whatever 'voices' you are hearing isn't me. I rejected the dark side. You must do the same."

[@dereklopez9060]

This is what I would've done in TROS, Anakin's force ghost interacting with Ben Solo on the Death Star wreckage. Ben Solo: ( standing on the platform ). Anakin: Ben.... Ben Solo:.....( turns around, sees Anakin ). Anakin:...Hello Ben. Ben Solo: Who are you? Anakin: ( smiles )....I'm Anakin Skywalker. Ben Solo:...Grandfather? Anakin: Yes. Ben Solo:.. Why are you here? Anakin: I've been with you all along. This is the first time you've ever been able to hear my voice. The dark side that was residing inside of you was pushing me away. But because of your mother reaching out to your heart, the dark side in you was repelled back...I've been with you all along. Ben Solo:...Why did you do it? The dark side, why did you turn your back on it? You had all that power, why did you throw it away? Anakin: I had power, Ben. But I suffered because of it. Power is meaningless if you're miserable because of it. I wanted the power to protect the one's that were close to me. In the end, it was because of my desire for power, I lost everything and everyone...including myself. But you know what that's like, don't you? Ben Solo:.... Anakin: I turned back, because for the very first time in year's, I remembered who I was...and what I wanted to protect. Ben Solo:...It's too late. Anakin: It is, to stop your past self from failing, but it's not too late to start rising... You want to let the past die? Then let Vader die...let Kylo Ren die...they die, you rise...as a Skywalker. Ben Solo: I know what I have to do, but I don't know if I have the strength to do it. Anakin:...( Smiles )...Now, Be brave Ben...and don't look back...don't look back. Ben Solo:...( throws his cross guarded lightsaber into the ocean...he turns around, and sees nothing ). Anakin: ( in a distant voice )...I'll be with you always, my grandson.

[@HighHeelKnight]

@@dereklopez9060 That was pretty good. My idea is radically different, but yours is probably more practical than mine. 👍

[@vetarlittorf1807]

Because Lucasfilm is filled with hacks these days.

[@dereklopez9060]

@@HighHeelKnight Thanks, I really wish it happened in TROS to this very day. What's your Idea?

[@HighHeelKnight]

@@dereklopez9060 My idea involves chances to Episode 8. Bear in mind, I thought of this long before Episode 9 had an official title and Snoke was retconned into a bizarre avatar for the resurrected Emperor. I’ll try to be succinct as possible. If I tried to write the full scene, then it would be several “pages” long. Instead of ghost Yoda visiting Luke, I would have had ghost Anakin appear. After they exchange greetings and stuff… ANAKIN = When I was on board the first Death Star, I once boasted that the ability to destroy a planet was insignificant to the power of the Force. Now that I am one with the Force and more powerful that I could have imagined, there are still… obstacles. Communicating with someone I did not know in life is difficult. Ben’s corrupted perspective makes reaching him even harder. Snoke’s influence over my grandson was nearly absolute. I might have been able to reach him with the help of Leia. I connected with her once, but she wants as little to do with me as possible. LUKE = Understandably so. It was probably good that you were already dead. ANAKIN = I decided to come to you, but I saw how broken you became. My body was ruined by rage and fire, but you? You were ruined by failure and grief. The spirit is not easily repaired. LUKE = Why are you here father? Do you have some profound parental advice? ANAKIN = Yes, but I am not the parent that needs to offer it. Anakin places his hand on Luke’s shoulder and tells me to completely open himself to the Force. Cue music. Cue ethereal special effects. A transparent, nearly formless cloud floats in front of them. Anakin’s ghost form starts to flicker, and he seems to be in pain. Anakin tells Luke to ignore the anguish and keep himself open to the Force. LUKE = What is this? CLOUD = You have no memory of me, but we knew each other briefly in life. Your feelings shall reveal me. LUKE = Mother? Yes, the cloud is Padme Amidala. During their chat, Yoda’s statement about “luminous beings are we, not this crude matter” will be referenced. The chat takes a toll on Anakin. His ghost form flickering and becoming more translucent. Padme explains that surrendering to despair cost her life, her family, and the future of the galaxy. She apologizes to Luke. Padme also apologized during the time Ghost Anakin interacted with Leia. It took a long while for Anakin to recover, which is why he’s been gone for so long. Yadda, yadda, yadda. Luke is still alive and can still make a difference. LUKE = The galaxy needs hope. It needs a legend to inspire people. I don’t think I can do it. CLOUD/PADME = My son, a legend didn’t abandon moisture farming to follow an old wizard on a crazy adventure. A legend didn’t rescue a princess or destroy a Death Star. A legend confront a Sith Lord or outwit a notorious kingpin just to rescue his friends. A legend didn’t defy an emperor because of the slim hope of saving his father. Luke, you have never needed to be a legend to make difference. No one needs to be a legend. History creates its legends. Legends don’t create history.” There are more tweaks to Episode 8 from that point on, but I won’t get into that. Basically, my idea explains why Anakin didn’t interact with Ben Solo. It explains why Anakin hasn’t been around for a while. My “did not know in life” explains why Anakin, Yoda, Obi-Wan, and Qui-Gon aren’t helping the New Republic/Resistance. Personally, I still hate the idea of Padme losing the will to live in Episode 3. My idea switches the Like Father, Like Son troupe into Like Mother, Like Son situation, and makes me feel a little better about Padme’s demise. Okay. That’s my Force ghost fixing in a nutshell. Thanks for reading.

[@Livelongwforce]

Luke broke my heart first when tossing his lightsaber over his shoulder and then by showing a fundamental misunderstanding of the Jedi.

[@SpectrumGamer29]

It seems a lot of the Star Wars fandom misunderstands the Jedi and seems to think they were the bad guys.

[@jackyoung3936]

This is the theme of the modern times of entertainment. Deconstruct the heroes to make them in the accepted warped emotionally scared pattern of the current generation. Captain Kirk is now a troubled youth, not a boy scout, Superman will kill, has a troubled marriage and his son is homosexal and Doctor Who just went through 3 seasons of foundation breaking reconstruction. It's a constant trope of "just give up, it's too big for you" instead of creating undying hope and perseverance. The Luke who threw his lightsaber away in front of the Emperor is not the same Luke who threw his lightsaber away in front of Rey no matter of experiences.

[@Livelongwforce]

@@jackyoung3936 agree, the nihilism world view is strong with these characters. That works for a one or two side characters, but for the main one they need that drive and faith in themselves and those around them to make the outcome they desire happen. If they're already given up, then I become a nihilistic audience member.

[@Livelongwforce]

@@SpectrumGamer29 Right? They think they are this cult with an unobtainable standard. having high standards and living for others seems to be out at the moment.

[@solarking952]

The lightsaber throwing bit is a weird scene for a number of reasons. Luke should have like 100 questions when he meets Rey. Who are you? How did you find me? Who else knows I’m here.

[@cobra312004]

Don't they straight up say that Qui-Gon's training was incomplete before he died and that's why he couldn't fully manifest. I always assumed that was why it took him over 10 years to be able to reach anyone. It's also heavily implied that he is only able to manifest on Mortis and Dagobah because of how strong those places are in the Force.

[@creativeusername3408]

No because Obi Wan contacted qui gon on tatooine and Yoda heard him on corrusant

[@emberfist8347]

@@creativeusername3408 But only as a voice.

[@justthinkingoutloud2538]

I love the amount of thought and effort you put into each video. Here’s how I think about it: Force ghosts aren’t ghosts as we usually think of them, disembodied people just hanging around, they are basically extensions of the will of the Force itself. For one to “live on in the Force” so to speak, they must find perfect attunement with the Force, and when they die, their consciousness joins the Force itself, free of time and space, in perfect peace with the universe. In my imagining, they only manifest as agents or extensions of the Force to the Force-sensitive, and only appear to the mind, not in physical space with any ability to manipulate it, and only with the purpose to guide according to the will of the Force. I imagine they can only appear to those they knew, as relationships seem to have power for the Force-sensitive, except for those who have become one with the will of the Force, who can commune with the spirits of all who have passed into the Force. Yes, this is all head-canon!

[@tedscheett9420]

A bit off topic, but I have a thought that has been nagging at me for a while that pertains to the sequels. By the end of Rise of Skywalker, the First and Final Order have been destroyed, the New Republic was destroyed by Star Killer base, and anyone who knew anything about Galactic Politics and history seems to be dead or extremely inexperienced. There is no governing interest that we know of, no keepers of peace, and a fair few planets were destroyed in the FO's wake, planets which, housed most if not all of the New Republic's politicians. So my question is, who, if anyone is keeping the Galaxy from crumbling into anarchy? Corosant, otherwise known as the people who didn't give a flying ferrik of who lived or died on Crait? The Resistance whose main cast consists of a Hot-Headed X-wing Pilot, a Gambler turned Space Vegas's Mayor, a couple Ex-First Order Stormtroopers, a lower deck mechanic, a 200 year old Wookie, a handful of droids, a bunch of Freedom Fighters, and granddaughter of the Galaxy's most dangerous man who was a little too ashamed of grandpappy so she took the name of a dead family who's patiarch was a child slaughtering enforcer of the Empire who served under her grandfather? Other than Lando, literally no one is a good candidate to lead a Galaxy wide government, and even he has his shortcomings. As much as the writers wanted the whole happy ending, walking off into the sunset, the Galaxy has no center and will be plunged into chaos and anarchy within moments. But it's the sequel trilogy. Nothing has to make sense.

[@lukeb8526]

With the New Republic eviscerated, I suppose there's a chance the Moffs and regional governors could reestablish the Imperial bureaucracy on a local scale. All the old politicians and senators probably weren't just executed by the New Republic, so they could be freed from prison if thigs got extreme or just come out of retirement. And I'd say big corporations would take advantage of the situation to take over interstellar trade, but there's just too little worldbuilding for me to know anything for sure. But my contingent point is that in the end, it was one system that was blown up. Local governments would be fine - it would just be galaxy spanning policies that would fail.

[@jackyoung3936]

Disney: "Ignore the politics as that's what made the PT bad. In fact, let chaos rein and get rid of the republic. Just keep the totalitarianism."

[@HandofOmega]

One of the smartest moves the original EU made was explaining that Force ghosts were only a temporary phenomena, when Obi-Wan appears to Luke at the beginning of the first novel and sadly explains to him that Luke will never see him again. Force ghosts work well for a limited story, but for an ongoing narrative, they are really unworkable...

[@waaaaaaah5135]

Yup

[@jackyoung3936]

For anyone not knowing what this post refers to: Hier to the Empire by Timothy Zahn

[@fattiger6957]

IMO, Force Ghosts should only appear to guide people according to the Will of the Force. Once their mission is complete and the living person achieves their goal (save the galaxy, beat the bad guy, etc) the Force Ghost returns to complete oneness with the Force. It was never really their choice to appear and they couldn't stay forever.

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

Kinda nubs this whole gimmick of force ghosts being how Jedi attain immortality compared to the sith. But apart from being narratively sensible I figure its more relieving anyway to join with the force then be burdened with safe guarding the Jedi forever.

[@emberfist8347]

@@GreaterGrievobeast55 Except it doesn't really nub it. We see in SWTOR that the limit is not dependent on a specific time frame after death as the Exile from KOTOR II appears 300 years after she died to get the Republic to bust Revan out of prison. It is more akin a traditional ghost crossing over as soon as they have no more unfinished business so the OT force ghosts stop showing up after The Thrawn Trilogy because they have no more unfinished business

[@Kevin_Street]

I think the appearance of Anakin as a force ghost implies there's more going on with them than we understand - but in terms of the _story_ you're absolutely right. In the story the force ghosts only show up when the existence of the Jedi is at stake, and they only act to preserve or bring back the Jedi order. The rest is mystery we can only speculate about. That's why I'm not a fan of the Whills, or midi-chlorians for that matter. For the sake of the story some things are best left unexplained.

[@fattiger6957]

I don't know if I would say Force Ghosts only care about the Jedi Order. IMO, Force Ghosts are agents of the Will of the Force. The Force is bigger than the Jedi.

[@emberfist8347]

@@fattiger6957 But the Jedi Order is important for safeguarding the force. Every era where there aren't enough Jedi everything hits the fan.

[@masenmccane4089]

Hey Thor! Your my fav Star Wars channel on KZbin and it’s my first time commenting. I think your on the right track with your thoughts here by I think it’s actually simpler than it seems. To preface my thoughts I’m going to bring up Carl Jung and his thoughts on psychology. Jung proposed a theory that we have an ego and buried underneath a collective unconscious. On that note, what does a Jedi have to do to become a force ghost? Release attachments(break the ego) and join the cosmic force(the collective unconscious). Not to say that force ghosts aren’t sentient, but rather they have joined a collective something larger than the self. If that’s the case then what do we know about the force? It may not be sentient but it has a natural will. A will for balance. Therefore I see force ghosts as being tied to the will of the force. When they appear it’s because it was the will of the force. Star Wars has always played with the themes of destiny and prophecy. We know anakin is destined to bring balance to the force. The problem is many think that means a clear slate. 0 sith, 0 Jedi. This is wrong because the Jedi do not manipulate the force for their gain, HOWEVER the Jedi of the prequels did. They used their powers to enforce the will of the republic rather than the will of the force. Qui gon knew this. This is why the Jedi needed to be destroyed and then the sith. Obviously if qui gon didn’t die things may have worked out differently but that wasn’t what was destined to unfold in the world of Star Wars. I believe the force understood Luke was the key too redemption and that’s why it’s will was to have the force ghosts train Luke and restore balance. Everybody, Let me know what ya think! Hope I presented my self clearly, and this is my interpretation I understand that others definitely my be different and everyone is entitled to their opinion

[@solarking952]

What Qui Gon said about existing where there’s no future or past could be a reference to his live in the moment philosophy regarding the living force in TPM.

[@fattiger6957]

I always think of the Force as a power that is beyond space and time. When a person dies, they become one with the Force. Thus, a Force Ghost not having any past or future.

[@ericbrown8627]

I love your attempt at making sense out of the nonsensical, the sequels just shit all over everything that came before them.

[@lonebattledroid4474]

I wonder if the Force Ghosts can even travel to other Galaxies and start Jedi Orders there to stop other Dark Side threats that cause suffering there. I really want to see a story like that.

[@claytonbrooks4826]

Star Wars: Visions might be the beginning of something like this!

[@Breakdowns04]

Yoda said that it was time for the Jedi to end. The segment of TCW that was cited where The Force priestesses said that Yoda would train someone who would correct a great imbalance implies that the function of Force ghosts is not to preserve the Jedi order, but to preserve balance. The Jedi may be the primary agent the Force uses to maintain balance, but it is not a necessary one. Thus, I believe that while Luke may have been hypocritical in saying what he did, he is not inherently wrong in his assessment.

[@AardvarkAdventure]

Luke can only see Yoda once he 'turns the force back on.' And I would suspect that Yoda can do the lightning thing only in places with that kind of super connection to the force. Both of those things are mentioned in canon (well, the lightning thing is sort of an extrapolation).

[@emberfist8347]

Except neither are really stated. The force isn't a switch you can turn on or off being cut off from the force in EU was almost a fate worse than death because of how painful the process was. Also No force Ghost ever did anything like Yoda did before.

[@carterbridges3978]

I think this another way to say “they can only ensure the plot moves forward”

[@fattiger6957]

Basically. Force Ghosts are agents of the Will of the Force (aka the plot)

[@marshmallowvampire8503]

13:00 I for whatever reason thought this was Yoda having a vision, but things actually started floating? Cool

[@hrstar24]

I like how the Thrawn trilogy just starts with with Ben's ghost leaving Luke forever, so the EU doesn't have to deal with any of this crap lol. Granted I have only read a few of the EU books so far...

[@Jermrants]

The Eu is perfect for it tho, and heir to the empire doesn’t go into nonsense like The sequels did it’s an ACTUAL sequel to the OT made by an actual fan

[@dizehjvegnomis]

the eu is the canon. disney is scheiße

[@fattiger6957]

@@Jermrants And it added new characters without ruining the existing characters. If the sequels were just bad, I think fans wouldn't feel so betrayed. The worst thing about the sequels is that they showed absolutely no respect to what came before. They mock and insult the foundation they were built on.

[@Jermrants]

@@fattiger6957 yep Interesting characters too 👌🏼👍🏼 it also made the galaxy way bigger too And added more worldbuilding that actually respected the OT works at the time (cause obv the prequels hadn’t come out then) but it references corruscant so for that reason it’s always been the true canon continuity for me

[@scottcarver7393]

We know the force priestesses and The Son (and likely the father and daughter as well) know the future by using the force or being connected to it. How could force ghosts not be able to see the future by using their own consciousness to see it just like they could when they were alive?

[@minerpvpgaming2160]

they can see potential futures but they can't do anything without it being the will of the force since they are part of the force

[@istari0]

Personally, I think the abilities of Force Ghosts should be quite limited otherwise otherwise you end up with situation after situation where people are asking why didn't the Force Ghost of do something about the problem. I do like the idea that the Force has the equivalent of tides where sometimes the Force Ghosts can make an appearance at the equivalent of high tide but not at other times. They should never be able to do something like call down lightning (but what else would you expect from the TLJ trainwreck) or even anything somewhat close to that.

[@Optimaloptimus]

I think the only person that can answer questions on Force Ghosts, is the man that created them to begin with. George Lucas.

[@SpaceAcex]

I agree. The rules were never really established for force ghost. Not a fan of TLJ but I’m not gonna kill the movie for yoda using lightening. What we think we know about it are only assumptions.

[@decades1912]

It would've been nice if in the Sequels they saw Force ghosts having to disappear &/or shake with muscle strain/ghost strain when catching lightsabers or hurling down lightning explaining "Mm, a lot of energy that was, tired I am" Explaining that being a Force ghost is like gravity pulling you underwater in a vast ocean with no boat or refuge anywhere, but the talented can swim up to the surface to commute with the living. I think this theory works rather well.

[@4891MR]

8:30 "... makes for a better story or better movies than the Force Ghosts always handling everything..." That would ruin the storyline that we know, but it would not necessarily be a bad movie. Just completely different movies. They would be instead the main characters in that case, anf I guess that the audience would have to be told the limits and specifics of their powers. There would have to be plausible opposition for the drama to have any impact, but high levels of power and superhuman scales of interest are not otherwise unwatchable. It would just, to repeat, invalidate, nullify, and replace all of the Star Wars that we have.

[@macwelch8599]

My biggest question about this situation is how and why Yoda used Sith Lightning to destroy the Temple

[@mikenayers5981]

He called lighting from the sky, and didn’t produce it. Probably a huge difference.

[@cmd31220]

He didn't. The lightning doesn't come from Yoda. It's natural lightning he literally calls down from the sky. He's manipulating the physical world, not creating it himself

[@CometStar100]

I think it was just regular lightning that came from the sky

[@emberfist8347]

@@mikenayers5981 Not really. As there was no lightning before Yoda summoned it.

[@emberfist8347]

@@cmd31220 That is way to overpowered and there was no lightning strikes before he summouned it.

[@jaredmarkham7300]

This was a good video. I think the problem comes from Disney's poor writing and overall handling of the the Star Wars IP. The fact that they thought that they could Play fast and loose with George Lucas's hard we're at work and the fans understanding of The way that the world of Star Wars works Is what killed the sequel trilogy and put Disney star wdisney Star Wars where it is not where John and Dave are on a Dave are doing all they can to to build it back to where it was.

[@jackyoung3936]

... short of contradicting the ST. I believe that is an order, for now.

[@dondoesdoodles9726]

Considering the poor writing of Mando Season 2 and Book of Boba Fett I don't think you should put your hopes on Dave/John.

[@jaredmarkham7300]

@@dondoesdoodles9726 John and David were put into a hole by every thing happening with Disney corprit.. I have no problem with Mando season 2. They were forced to release Book of Boba before the it was ready. These two man have a lot on their plate. Were as KK broke the Sugles Trillagy on perpus because she was mad that she didn't come up with it first

[@dondoesdoodles9726]

@@jaredmarkham7300 You can have no problem with Mando Season 2 but that doesn't refute it's objectively poor writing.

[@jaredmarkham7300]

@@dondoesdoodles9726 it's still better writing then the sequels but I'm willing to admit that is a Low bare.

[@JaalKiriam]

Your video got me thinking of a theory that could actually retcon Snoke into something interesting... What if, knowing of the inevitable rise of light, Snoke found Rey as a potential Chosen One to counter himself and so nurtured her destiny so as to either corrupt or destroy his future undoing. Of course it doesn't explain the events of RoS (only severe head trauma does), but it could've redeemed TLJ to think that Snoke was playing so many moves ahead that he was beaten by standard, overlooked Sith treachery.

[@fdsajfldaskjf]

I never understood the need for the force ghosts to have clearly outlined abilities. I always thought it was better than what they are and are not capable of is left mystique. If Yoda can destroy that tree, why didn't he use that ability before? Can all force ghosts do that? All valid questions, but I think it's better if we're not given a concrete answer. I think it's better than the "why and how" of literal ghosts is unanswered. They're spirits, they don't need explaining.

[@mpnuorva]

Right. Invoking Occam's Razor, and implication are a perfectly valid tools for softer magic systems. The audience doesn't need everything spelled out to it.

[@EikeSky]

I think the situations given by Thor here make it very easy to defend why now: it wasn't an attack. Yes, it was a lightning strike on a tree, but the tree was dead, hollowed out as a storage device. Attacking Palps and Vadar would've been a contradiction of the "never for attack" teaching of empire

[@emberfist8347]

@@EikeSky I am pretty sure the Force would be okay with letting the equivalent of the anti-christ have sudden electrocution in bed.

[@mikenayers5981]

I just saw that as Yoda only being able to do something like that at Ach To, as there was a heavy force presence at the location.

[@Jermrants]

The force is everywhere that means absolutely nothing and + ach to is a little planet in the middle of nowhere compared to other planets

[@mikenayers5981]

@@Jermrants It’s everywhere but places and objects have stronger connections to it. Part of the reason Yoda chose Dagobah. Also, rewatch the parts with Ach To.

[@Jermrants]

@@mikenayers5981 I will unfortunately NOT be watching the parts with Ach to sorry 😅 Or those movies for that matter

[@mikenayers5981]

@@Jermrants Neither will I, but my explanation is as keeping with Star Wars rules.

[@phlojem285]

I think it may be that the Force Ghosts do exist in a non-linear space, but that every action in the present somehow shapes the realm in which they live. Or in other words, depending on what the living do, the future the Force Ghosts see changes. That could be the reason they know when they must intervein, maybe when the future is uncertain, or has an outcome that involves a lot of Dark Side success

[@likeluptid]

It always seems very obvious to me that the Force has a very great awareness of everything, and a whole lot of very powerful influence over everything. There exists a prophecy of someone bringing balance to the Force, them through a series of very interesting events, 2 Jedi end up on Tatooine, in the small town, at the shop of the kid that the prophesy is spoken of. If even the smallest thing bad been different, if one of those blasts that destroyed all the other astromechs on that ship had also hit R2D2, for example, or if 2 Jedi had not been sent to Naboo, things would have very different. And that's just one very small example of how things keep coming together throughout the entire Star Wars Saga to bring an end to the imbalance in the Force, that is, the Sith. People and objects are often in the right place, for their part in the inexorable eventuality of Vader killing Palpatine, and balance being restored. All the times that Anakin risked his life, he apparently was never in any danger, not until his part is played, and then he died moments later, just like Padmé when her part in the Grand Scheme was complete. Throughout the Clone Wars episodes, it is always amazing to see how things always come together to advance Anakin to his destiny. Even the many things that delayed the Sith taking control of the galaxy is proof that the Force never needed "ghosts" to influence events, times and seasons; the Force chose these "ghosts," seemingly to preserve the Jedi Order. It appears that a lot of people don't get what the Force is, and what light and dark and imbalance are. Usually when they speak of the Force, all of it is being referred to, light and dark. That's the natural order of things. There is always light and darkness together, the yin and yang, the Way of things. As long as they exist together, everything is balanced. Sometimes when they speak of the "dark side of the Force," they're referring g to a misuse of the Force of selfish reasons. The Sith interrupted the Way of things, using the Force for selfish Galactic ambitions. The Jedi Order had a VERY warped view of the Force, seeing light as.good and dark as bad, when, in fact, both are needed for each other for the natural Order of things. Destroying the Sith and its unnatural and self-serving use of the Force is what restored balance to the natural flow of things, the light and the dark. So it's also interesting that the Jedi Order also went away, but not before Yoda was corrected in a large way about the Force, and how he needed the light and the darkness in him, and control and balance over all of himself. This is the proper and natural Way of things. Anakin , if you never noticed, (even Anakin and all his peers b3ver notice), was always unwittingly doing that. No matter what he SAID, that roughneck part of him and the DDEPLY caring and loving part of him, had a crude harmony coming into focus even when he 9 years old. Then he went to the Dark side, and in a weird way, became more complete from a different view of things. And he re-established himself as Jedi by killing the remaining Sith at the sacrifice of himself, and he was able to become a Force ghost. Yoda had to learn what Anakin was already doing, and became more complete in. And THAT is what continued through Force ghosts, a more perfect perception of the Force and the Way of things. The warped view that the Jedi Order had should have died out with them, and only the more complete view of the Force carry on through Yoda and Anakin. Even Luke had unwittingly acted with the Force in more complete way at first. By by the time he met Grogu, he believed and taught that VERY WARPED view of things that was supposed to have died out with the old Jedi Order. The writers of the final 3 episodes don' seem to have understood some things, but they got Yoda's part right in conveying to Luke what Luke was already sensing, that the old thinking of things needed to go away. Yoda ended up doing exactly what he commissioned to do a few days before Order 66 was executed. The Force has had a powerful influence over everything, even preserving the Jedi Order, or at least a seed from it. But I don't know how it could ever help new ones coming into the Order, the adjusted amd proper, view of the Force without Force ghosts to speak for It.

[@jameskirk4692]

Thank you! Those are the types of questions I always wonder about.

[@Michael.Gr3y]

As for Force Ghosts and how they can intervene, again it all seems to depend on where they are. In the book *Star Wars The Secrets of the Jedi* you see that Luke kept in contact with the Force Ghosts of Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin until he decided to block his connection to the Force. And that is very revealing because it shows that Force Ghosts are not all knowing. Although part of the Force, they don't know everything. And you can see that on the Mortis arc when Obi-Wan speaks to Qui-Gon Jinn. That scene shows you how much Force Ghosts do not know. For one, Jinn asks Obi-Wan if he had trained Anakin. Strange question to ask if he had been able to keep up with events. Also Obi-Wan tells him and I quote *"You were right. The Force is stronger with him than with any other Jedi that I know. I've done the best that I could, but he's still willful and balance eludes him."* So Obi-Wan admits to Jinn that although Anakin was powerful in the Force, he however knew nothing about being in balance with himself less alone the Force. And again reading Revenge of the Sith you see that the only reason why Anakin hadn't already been elevated to the rank of Jedi Master was because the Council was aware that Anakin was emotionally unstable and that he preferred to do what he wanted instead of following the Code or what the Jedi Council hoped he would do. Qui-Gon Jinn later on Mortis he appears to Anakin. And Anakin straight up asks him if he was the Chosen One. To which Jinn says that he didn't knew. Again more proof that Force Ghosts do not know everything. But Jinn is the one that in a way sends Anakin to face the Son. And he even says *"I believe you'll face your demons. And save the universe."* Which Anakin never did. If anything the Son easily shows how much more powerful he was than Anakin, and then easily turns him to the dark side. So Jinn was wrong on all accounts. He believed that Anakin would've defeated the Son and thus helped Father keep him contained. Anakin did none of that. As for what the Force Ghosts can do, you can only speculate. Yoda did used the Force ability known as Alter Environment, to create lightning from his surroundings. That as you should know was an ability that many Jedi knew how to use in the times of the Old Republic. It was even considered a light side ability, because unlike Sith Force Lightning it did not come from one's emotions, but by using the Force to manipulate one's environment. As explained in the book Jedi Path. But every time you saw a Force Ghost do something with the Force, it was on a planet with a strong Force presence. Dagobah, Moraband, Ahch-To, Tython are all planets where the Force is unusually strong. If Force Ghosts could just do as they wanted to, they could've killed Vader and Sidious at any point. But they didn't because most likely than not they can only use the Force in places where the Force is strong. And the Death Star for example was just a space station / superweapon. Even Rey vision of her Sith self, only came to her when she finds the Wayfinder that was a Sith tool. And not because of the remains of the Death Star. Luke was only able to hold Anakin lightsaber and lift his X-Wing because Rey was on Ahch-To. A planet with a very powerful Force presence. As for why Yoda "chose" that moment. Again Secrets of the Jedi explains that. When Luke blocked his connection to the Force he stopped being able to communicate with Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin. But Rey visit had led Luke to open himself up to the Force again. And it was only then that Yoda appeared to Luke again. So again, more information about Force Ghosts. They can only appear to someone that has a connection to the Force. If no such connection exists or is being blocked, then the Force Ghost can't just appear. And that too limits what the Force Ghost can do and where.

[@dizehjvegnomis]

good analysis

[@emberfist8347]

You can't block a connection with the force.

[@dizehjvegnomis]

i don't accept the totalitarian disney canon, or the lucas one for that matter - the eu is my main canon for star wars, and someone's connection to the force can absolutely be blocked.

[@Michael.Gr3y]

@@dizehjvegnomis It doesn't matter what you accept. I could also say that I don't accept any and all non canonical material. To say you don't accept is because you're afraid of what it says. It's living in denial because things are not to your liking. Saying you don't accept a part of Canon is just proof that you don't care at all about any Canon. You just care about what you like.

[@dizehjvegnomis]

@@Michael.Gr3y actually it matters very much, subjectively, individually. here's something that i and like-minded people know: it's hilarious that you, a corporation, lucas, or anyone else thinks they can declare to someone else what is or isn't canon. this is OUR mythology - your mythology, my mythology, all of ours. we each, individually in our own heads, make our own canon based on the stories given to us and what speaks to us. george let this mythology out into the wild over 40 years ago; it's a living breathing thing of its own (except for that zombie corpse that disney keeps violating carnally). imagine letting someone else tell you what stories live in your head and help define your identity and worldview as an individual. so when I say the eu is the canon, i am correct. when you want to be restricted to some other definition for yourself, that's correct too. because it's subjective to anyone receiving the cultural transmission.

[@BRooster-w9j]

You should do a video about how anakin managed to become a force ghost!

[@stormsnowslidesnowball5855]

Could we have a video on Dads Seth cedus Jason solo from legends.? We’ve had a comparison video not a real dissection of the character and his deep story. Plus I don’t know where to get Star Wars legends comics from even in digital format which I see used in a lot of online videos but I don’t know where to get them myself if anybody could tell me where I’d be very happy.

[@emberfist8347]

It isn't a deep story that story had him being a massive idiot for no reason.

[@mateogarcia3866]

I always wanted for them to experiment with the Force ghost. I always had the idea(which I know doesn't make much sense but It would be cool) of a force ghost that was something more than just a guide for a character, that was able to interact with the world and not just talk you know? So I thought it would be cool if we had a character that had a force ghost(being this an ancestor idk smh like that) that guides this X character that not only guide through his journey but could also be part of him and be able to take control or be helpful in using the force. Kinda like Johnny silverhand in CP77. kinda dumb but I thought it will add some diversity to the force ghosts

[@PixelKatana]

Great video. This topic has me looking forward to Shadow of the Sith which may offer more insight at least for how things work under Disney. I hope the excerpt doesn't turn out to be some glorified fever dream Luke had and has some actual meaty lore for us.

[@tjcarr8097]

I always looked at it as in the original Empire Strikes Back novel that Kenobi’s presence felt like a second skin to Vader when confronting his son. Obviously he was not present during the fight on Bespin. Really wish George had explained it more in those stories

[@Sousabird]

Episode 8 proved that being dead is literally more useful than being alive.

[@Nebula2187]

"If you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine"

[@CometStar100]

Well Obi-Wan did say he would become more powerful then Vader could possibly imagine by becoming a force ghost but we never really see Kenobi do anything powerful. All he did was talk to Luke. It would be cool if the force ghosts could do a little something. I don't think they should be able to actually catch a lightsaber but do powerful things with the force

[@nerdrage557]

The way force ghost Yoda got used in Last Jedi was just odd and nonsensical imo. First time I watched the scene where he and Luke are sitting down talking and then he calls lightning out of the sky to burn the temple I thought "Wait.......what?" Weird

[@emberfist8347]

Not to mention the puppet looked off and he shouldn't have had his cane as it wasn't a living thing.

[@ironjehoshaphat2764]

This just shows that JJ and Rian Johnson didn't care about Clone Wars or OT canon and wanted to make their own "Star Wars."

[@IzzoCello]

I think you put about 5000% more thought into force ghosts than Ryan did. While that scene in TLJ was my favorite the lightning didn’t make a ton of sense. I liked your thoughts on them being nonlinear and only coming out at crisis times.

[@curtismartin129]

I kinda view Qui-Gon Jinn's path to being a force ghost like dr. Manhattan reassembling himself. He had a long road to understand how to manifest but was then able to help the other jedi.

[@shugaroony]

Becoming a force ghost is becoming 'more powerful than you could possibly imagine' - but at the point of death for a Jedi that will become one, they wash their spirit of any ego thats left in them, be it attachment, grief, hubris or elements of the dark side. Their role subsequently is to become a mentor and not interfere with the living force. Thats not to say they can't as see by Yoda's demonstration on Ahch-To, its just that they look to find other methods to deliver the message to the living (and also being what a true Jedi should be, one to look to solve problems without the use of the force, or wielding a lightsabre). Thats a good observation about Luke being able to see the force-ghosts at the end of Jedi and Leia not, despite her beginning to feel the force awaken in her; however I think its just that, Luke has been open to the force for something like 3-4 years at this point, has embraced it and been trained; Leia hasn't yet, hence why she perhaps isn't open enough spiritually to yet see them.

[@emberfist8347]

Except no they physically can't interfere. If they did they would have kill Palpatine in his sleep or while he was in the refresher.

[@shugaroony]

@@emberfist8347 Which is what I said by them not interfering with the living force. They are passive mentors only who will let the will of the force dictate what happens. If they interfere, that would be out of hubris, which goes against what they have become.

[@rebekah.2187]

Why they don't interfere makes perfect sense. It would be like a parent constantly interfering in everything you do. It's fine when you a toddler and your parent grabs your hand before you pull a pot of boiling water off the stove, or stops you from running out into the street. Both of those are life threatening things. However, if you parent is constantly there interfering in everything you do, you never learn anything because they are always there fixing everything for you. Every bad decision you make, you learn what went wrong, and what or how you could have done it better, or not do it at all. If someone constantly steps in to either fix it or keep you from making mistakes, then you never learn anything. If you don't learn anything, how can you pass on your knowledge to anyone else? When Luke went rushing off to confront Vader, he refused to listen to Yoda and Obi-Wan's arguments against his leaving because he wasn't ready to face Vader. Luke insisted on going, so they had to let him go, and not interfere. He had to learn for himself that he wasn't ready. They had to let him make his own choices, and his own mistakes. Also, Qui-Gon said he's in a place where there is not future or past. So, if they constantly interfere, they may not be doing the will of the Force. They may not even know the will of the Force, until, as you said, the very last minute. Yoda conjuring the lightning to burn down the tree, was a lesson for Luke, who clearly still quite a lot of that farm boy back on Tatooine in him. "The Jedi should end," he says. Yoda's like, "Oh really? I'll just burn down this tree then," causing Luke to show his true feelings, which he was denying all along, with his "The Jedi should end nonsense." Maybe it was a move to preserve the Jedi. If Luke hadn't battled Kylo Ren, then Rey might have, and been killed. It's hard to tell with that one because Rey has such amazing plot armor. If she could survive her battle with Ren in TFA without training, then I don't see why, with training, she couldn't have battled him on Crait and saved her friends.

[@themattyice6156]

I've always viewed it as the force ghosts are guides. They can show jedi the way but to directly involve themselves in the fight would throw off the balance of the force in some way. When Yoda calls lightning, he's doing it to guide Luke to a lesson, not to directly intervene in the fight.

[@claytonbrooks4826]

I like to think that the force ghosts can influence the natural world in a way that could be excused as a natural occurrence. Something that has no real influence on the outcome of the fates of the main characters. Yoda summoning lighting could be just redirecting a few charged particles to cause a lighting strike in a certain spot that could have theoretically happened by natural chance as well. This way the force ghosts work with nature herself and not as independent persons

[@emberfist8347]

That doesn't make sense.

[@sirdan11]

I think it makes the most sense to explain that the force ghosts are not all knowing and not all powerful. Much like the OT God, it makes more sense if he is not all loving and knowing and powerful, otherwise he can only be described as manipulative and evil. The force ghosts aren't a deus ex machina.

[@emberfist8347]

I am still not convinced that Qui-Gon who did all that shaking. It was probably Yoda doing it unconciously.

[@Healingharp88]

Personally even before the sequel trilogy I've always likened the process of becoming a Force Ghost to being something similar to ascension/ascended beings from the Stargate franchise. Insofar as you don't suddenly become and all-knowing, perfect and enlightened being. You just gain a greater ability to understand well the universe I guess. Because Jedi or not you are still limited by the limitations of a physical body. Sure there's a power boost again like Stargate but again I imagined their would be either some awareness if not outright rule not to interfere with free-will/actions of "lower-beings". Which I think is a Jedi sort of thing to do. Difficult as it may be. (It's even alluded in Stargate that the ascended beings believe that there is another plane of existence higher than their current level and they are working to achieve that.) Plus Yoda says something in the novelization of ROTS that "infinte knowledge, infinte time that would require". Also hinting that Yoda didn't take a mystical bong hit when he became a Force Ghost. Just gained infinte time to learn.

[@kevincruz7958]

I think the ghost are there for those who need to hear the will of the force but for being controlled by an emotion, they can't focus on their own. And I think the ghosts work through familiarity. They only appear to those that already knew them.

[@kreia187]

I think the whole vanity thing with luke is just him saying exactly what you pointed out in the video. The Jedi are not the light side of the force, they merely use it. "To say that, when the jedi die, the light side dies is vanity" are his exact words and they are very much true. He just decided that the galaxy would be better served if nobody knew how to use the force, because even if your intentions are good, the slightest mistake can create abominations such as Darth Vader and Kylo Ren, which he accidentally proved himself. That's also why he didn't want to train Rey. His lessons were not supposed to stop her from becoming a Jedi, but rather to stop her from using the force period. In a way, this all is quite similar to what Kreia believed, that it would be better if the force simply didn't exist, just that she decided to tackle the problem in a very different, more metaphysical way. By the end of the movie, Luke obviously grew beyond that belief, at least in part, so he sacrificed himself to safe what was good. Maybe Rey acted as the Sam to Luke's Frodo. "What are we holding on to Sam?" "That there is some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it's worth fighting for!"

[@emberfist8347]

Except Vader was created strictly by Anakin himself not anyone else.

[@johnames9253]

It should bear remembering that it's possible the Force Ghosts do very little because they lack the will. Not from selfishness or lack of compassion, but because they are dead. Their nature has fundamentally transformed and while they may have "returned from the netherworld of the Force," their metaphysical nature has changed. In CS Lewis's 'The Great Divorce' he tells an imaginary story regarding Christian theology where a previously deceased soul is there to guide new arrivals through the transition from life and, hopefully, put then on the path to Heaven and out of hell and purgatory. These guiding souls are pleased to do their duty and genuinely care for those they meet, but they have both matured (for lack of a better word) beyond the concerns of mortality and are eager to continue their own journey. While becoming one with the Force is likely not much like the Judeo-Christian idea of the afterlife, the idea Lewis presents may still be relevant. Force Ghosts may seem to do little, but the reality of becoming part of the continuous stream of all that was, and all that is, and all that will be changes them so dramatically that the will to manifest and help the living with even a nudge may itself be an incredibly heroic act of selflessness as they step away from Eternity, even for a few moments. Breaking yourself away from what's essentially your god, wouldnt be something the average monk would *want* to do. Or it may be that the act of living serves some critical function to the nature of the Force and their understanding of it now prevents them from doing more because it would be more harmful that good. Or maybe both together as the ideas are somewhat complimentary. Just a thought.

[@Valandhir]

Yodas Ghost acted to preserve the order - through the trees burning, Luke did not notice that Rey had taken the books. Yoda distracted him and as such the teachings were saved.

[@emberfist8347]

Except that doesn't make sense at all. If he wanted to preserve stop Ben from going evil.

[@minutemansmonitor]

"Why don't the Force ghosts do X" is another flavor of "Why doesn't Frodo ride a giant eagle to Mordor"

[@emberfist8347]

Not really because the original novel gave a reason for why the second one isn't possible. Eagles aren't invincible and have a deep seated fear of archers. Sauron isn't short on archers. And the book made it clear any attempt to intentionally destroy the ring would be doomed to fail as everyone who tries would be corrupted and decide to keep it. The book ended with it only getting destroyed because Gollum slipped while jumping for joy at having his precious back and fell into the volcano.

[@SamGutermuth]

George Lucas consistently describes the Sith as cancer, so it’s probably apt to say the Jedi are like an immune system. Cancer is a byproduct of existence, while an immune system only exists because cancer exists. So, the Jedi exist as a response to the Sith. That’s how I see it at least.

[@kennyholmes5196]

Not quite. the Immune System exists to deal with all pathogens, not just cancers. It's actually more specialized to deal with bacteria and viruses than it is to deal with cancer cells. the most it has is one single type of cell to deal with caner cells, while it has not just a myriad of cell types to deal with other pathogens, but also two blood components to do so!

[@jackyoung3936]

LOL, the Sequel Trilogy is characterized as Surgery, Chemo and Radiation.

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

@@kennyholmes5196 indeed, I take it these other pathogens are the other injustices and evils present in the galaxy that aren’t Sith related. A duty the Jedi must not neglect either, especially given that their order predates the siths.

[@kennyholmes5196]

@@GreaterGrievobeast55 Such as, for instance, slavery. In the 2008 Clone Wars series, it was established that the Jedi stood against the Zygerian Empire purely for the fact that the Zygerians were slavers. Warmongering is another example of what they stood against, as evidenced by the Jedi-Mandalorian wars that broke out in spite of a Mandalorian actually becoming a Jedi at one point, as well as by how they've taken on the role of peacekeepers by the time of Phantom Menace. Man, the Republic _really_ put a damper on the Jedi Order's ability to function properly, when you look at it!

[@Movie-comparisons]

Hey Thor do you know at this point when you are going to post the video for nihilus. Are the battle of the heroes and villains videos harder to make, have you been busy making other videos, or is it just because you have not been feeling well.

[@vagarcia74]

From the rumors wasn't the whole origins of the Force supposed to be what GL was thinking the sequel trilogy was supposed to be about? But he changed his mind because of the fan reaction to the sequels. But to me I think the Force Ghosts work sort of like the Ancients from SG-1. Except that only the good versions of them can exist.

[@aabarber9]

Luke says that it's vanity to think that when a Jedi dies the light dies with them.

[@Travis_Hackney]

the living and cosmic force most certainly ARE sentient, they are omnipresent, but NOT omnipotent, just like force ghosts the force, generally speaking, the energy field itself that is created by all matter (living or not), is NOT sentient i think there is a certain amount of force energy available based on the actual quantity of matter in the universe that generates it so if you divide that energy available by the total number of force wielders alive, you decrease the total amount of force energy that any one user can access at any time, this explains the power creep that as force wielders die, it concentrates the energy available to living users (see old palps vs rey) kinda like highlander there can be only one...force users will always be born, remember the kid on the casino planet that helps take care of the race kangaroo/horse things...he grabbed the broom with the force and lifted it in the light almost like a lightsaber...that's the new generation finding their roles...that's why the force ghosts don't intervene so much, they had their turn, but the new generation must learn to fight and save themselves...also, obi wan first explains to luke that the force is for knowledge and defense...force ghosts are a way to transmit knowledge, lightsabers are for defense...force ghosts are jedi, they can go anywhere; whereas, sith 'hauntings' (I'll call them) are always tied to a place...also, certain temples (sith and jedi) amplify force use, both canon and expanded universe: the cave on dagobah, the seeing stone, yavin4, jedi temple on sith temple, old palps on exogul, ghost yoda blowing the tree up...always localized phenomena...the sith have their own thing where "if you strike me down in anger" I get your body, but "I" am the cumulative consciousness of ALL of the previous 'rule of two' followers...can a force ghost be in hyperspace? what does a force ghost look like in the world between worlds? can a force ghost board a thor'yor?

[@jackyoung3936]

I believe an all encompassing GL Cut or SE of the Sequal Trilogy would be the only way to reconstitute the Disney mess into something closer to thematically Star Wars. It will not happen, however, because the Sequel Trilogy made enough box office that Disney believes the projects were acceptable for a new generation of fans to grow with like the PT. I don't believe that will happen as the ST is just not sound enough to capture and hold that target. The OT is like the Wizard of Oz or Gone With The Wind, always capturing a fan following. The PT is like Babalon 5, Buck Roger's in the 25th century and Battlestar Galactica. They had their followings, flaws, had a pre-concieved directions and were linked to thier times. The ST is like the first unreleased Fantastic Four movie in the early '90s; comes from a well loved universe with loved heroes, executed disastrously.

[@chrisreilly1290]

So I think they exist in a plane of existence like the world between worlds. In the world between worlds, Ahsoka tells Ezra why its important to not save Kanan. I'm sure the force ghosts see the bigger picture and the will of the force. Their existence is also probably the will of the force and thus only act in certain situations as they were always meant to.

[@emberfist8347]

Ahsoka wasn't a force ghost though just someone who know how time travel stories work and saving Kanan would create a paradox.

[@chrisreilly1290]

@@emberfist8347 if they could become a force ghost, they are probably as wise as Ahsoka

[@arnaudgerard1971]

Wow, a well thought out story. :p :)

[@alecjackman2655]

Can you make the argument that a force ghost did lead Rey to Anakin’s lightsaber, but instead it being Anakin himself it was actually Obi Wan since after Rey had that vision with the lightsaber she hears Obi Wan’s voice telling her “these are your first steps Rey”. The voice was a combination of Sir Alec Guinness and Ewan Mcgregor.

[@soloxcan]

I see force ghosts like ascended ancients in Stargate. They cannot interfere, it is against the rules. Though some bend the rules a little as long as it's for good

[@dredgendorchadas6770]

I prefer to think that they arnt using the force as much as they are using someone else's force. Originally i'd'v said they use illusions but the tree stayed burnt

[@DarkLordArmanus]

Though nothing explicitly explains it and it's open to interpretation, the reason Qui Gon didn't tell Yoda that Palpatine was a sith always seemed clear to me. Qui Gon was the exception to all the other jedi of his time - he listened to and served the will of the force. The jedi were plagued with hubris and served the Republic at the expense of serving the force. We see the republic is ineffective and does little to nothing to address the suffering in the galaxy. The slavery in the outer rim and the invasion of Naboo are prime examples. The jedi went along with this...Qui Gon even underlined it best when he said he wasn't sent to Naboo (or Tatooine) to free slaves, and that the jedi couldn't participate in the liberation of Naboo, even though there was a lot of suffering and death. The jedi were only acting on the political will of the republic. And we also know their ability to use the force was diminishing, and the most powerful masters of the jedi council were sitting together in the same room as the arguably most powerful sith to ever live, and they had no clue. It was the will of the force that the jedi be destroyed, and to be reborn when someone could see their failings and return the jedi to their proper purpose. That's why Qui Gon died. Why he said nothing about Palpatine. Why their power was diminishing. Why Anakin was getting his premonitions. Why the jedi couldn't sense the sith lord in front of them. Qui Gon kept quiet because to help the jedi order survive would undermine the will of the force. The sequel trilogy is a dumpster fire that makes a mess of everything, so maybe we should ignore that. The moment Luke started to make the same mistakes as the jedi (in my opinion, this started with his handling og Grogu) he should've gotten a stern lecture from his father. Everything that we see in the sequels is pointless and unnecessary.

[@emberfist8347]

The Jedi of the time did listen to the force. They listened to the cosmic force while he did the living force. And it is implied he didn't even know when Order 66 would happen or if Palpatine was behind it.

[@rosario5972]

as much as I like Star Wars I have to say that even though the Skywalkers are strong in the force, they really were not mentally prepared to handle it. Anakin becoming Vader and Luke not able to deal with his responsibilities and failures. I know they 'brought balance to the force' but really they did it in a Thanos type of way.

[@joshleake2520]

If you want to add on to what he said, if the Old Republic MMO Revan was captured by the Sith Emperor for what? 400 years? The Ghost of the Exlie didn't show up to tell anybody where Revan was until it started to look like the Sith Empire was going to overthrow the Republic and kill the Jedi off. Kinda mixing in the idea they can only show up when it's past the point of no return.

[@emberfist8347]

Or more because Revan wasn't supposed to be rescued yet. It is mentioned that while Revan was the Emperor's prisoner, he was able to exert some influence over the Emperor including getting him to sign the Treaty of Courscant which bought the Republic some much needed breathing room. By the time he eas rescued though, Revan couldn't influence the Emperor anymore.

[@Dlstufguy2]

I think the force needs to have a dark side/light side balance. What we are seeing is that the force is constantly skewed to one side or the other. In the prequels the jedi had the scales tipped in their favor for too long and had been in decline because the force wanted balance while the sith were growing exponentially. Anikin was the force trying to fix the over correction of letting the sith become to powerful. What we see in the movies is the scales tipping back and forth as the force tries to balance out the two sides.

[@emberfist8347]

That is no how balance works. Two Sith being as powerful as 10,000 Jedi isn't balanced.

[@Dlstufguy2]

@@emberfist8347 that is where you are wrong because two sith were as powerful as 10,000 jedi

[@emberfist8347]

@@Dlstufguy2 That isn’t balance though.

[@Dlstufguy2]

@@emberfist8347 2 5000 lb weights on one side and 10k 1 lb weights on the other. That is still balanced

[@emberfist8347]

@@Dlstufguy2 No it isn’t because the Sith are cancer. Star Wars is influenced by Eastern Philosophy that says evil is inherently imbalanced.

[@MCsCreations]

Well... Qui-Gon didn't finish his training before dying. He could only manifest years after episode 3. So...

[@Monkey9518]

My answer at least for the sequels and the issues they raise on force ghosts is pretty simple.......... They had no idea on how to write a Star Wars story.......... Well one individual for sure, and one to green light it..... (Cough) last Jedi (cough).......

[@Jansenbaker]

I thought of Luke's "the Jedi aren't necessary for the light to exist" to be about _his_ reasoning, not the Order. He's essentially saying (in my mind) that the Jedi can go away just fine, they won't be missed, and aren't even necessary. Not that that's true, but just saying.

[@emberfist8347]

Still horribly out of character.

[@superiorrule34]

Because the plot say so.

[@EternityKingdomsHeadHoncho]

Isn’t it obvious? Yoda only showed up to stop Luke from going to a garden party and to show off why his stick is better than bacon.

[@arnaudgerard1971]

Should Qui-Gon have been able to manipulate? A really good question.

[@Armand-ue7om]

your explanation ---- to disney= "I guess it works?" to Rian Johnson= "meh, I just thought force ghosts conjuring lightning was cool" 🤨

[@Alec11_43]

Nice overview of force ghosts and their mysterious ways, but that explanation doesn’t really justify/rationalize the events of the sequel trilogy all that much in the grand scheme of things. Even if the force ghosts couldn’t tell Luke about Palpatine’s return(which mitigates what they were trying to accomplish in their guidance), Anakin could have told him a few quick words about about Exegol and his location device when he was still alive; he was saying goodbye and didn’t have long but the stuff on that planet which could easily undermine all their efforts is too big not to briefly mention. PS it should be noted that Qui-Gon’s training as a force ghost was incomplete, which I’m not saying prevented him from wielding lightning, but could help explain some things.

[@emberfist8347]

Excpet the Force Ghosts never could interact with the physical world.

[@claudiosena1627]

Hi Thor, how are you? I sent you an e-mail a few days ago. I would be very grateful if you saw it, because it has huge ideas for episodes 10, 11 and 12. Ideas that could guide Star Wars for a good place or, at least, a better place than it is now. These ideas have ties to the Force Ghosts. I’m just waiting your answer there to send you everything I wrote about what could happen in episodes X, XI and XII. These things could make an interesting and good video for your channel. By the way, I think Disney watches your channel!

[@minerpvpgaming2160]

the force ghosts are part of the force and can only follow the will of the cosmic force which is made up of the combined consciousnesses of all who have died

[@28starwarsfan]

Darkness is just an absence of light. Keep the light on and the darkness will not be able to rise. Of course, in the context of the Jedi, they need to adhere and listen to the Will of the Force to represent the light, otherwise they are just using the Force for their own will, like the Sith.

[@Dilemina]

I always thought the ghost only appear to the force sensitive and actually use the power of the living force residing in the living Jedi. But then again i didn't like the Abrams movies.

[@relevare33]

Do you think force ghosts exist somewhere in the veil of the force?

[@emberfist8347]

No it isn't an afterlife unlike what people think.

[@splashnskillz37]

They kinda like the watcher of the mcu from the What If series

[@Shawn-363]

This is a problem with modern media in general. It’s why I believe that post modernism doesn’t belong in Star Wars or any of our classic franchises. They are fundamentally opposed to that ideology, which has caused our culture many, many issues. The heroes are always deconstructed and then what’s reconstructed afterwards? Something that resembles little of what it was before, and sneaks in the morally troubled nature of the 21st century western world. It’s crazy how many “fans” misunderstand Star Wars and think the Jedi are wrong and maybe evil. Then they try and justify the smith and other dark side cults saying they’re necessary and “have a point”. The Luke we saw in the Last Jedi is a product of a director that misunderstands the fundamental concepts of Star Wars and leans on a post modernist viewpoint.

[@x-winger9387]

Well I was under the impression that the Force Ghosts can only manifest to those that new them. Maybe Luke and Yoda were really manipulating the living Force just subconsciously. Also it takes time for their mind to be attuned to the present mindful of the living force where the Force Ghost can meet them.

[@emberfist8347]

Not really. Leia never her father but it didn't stop him from appearing to her. Also in SWTOR the exile visits characters who never knew her in life in order to break out one of the people who did know her.

[@x-winger9387]

@@emberfist8347 that is true in some non-movie/ video media but i don’t think it is true in what we can watch on a tv. But still how i saw it.

[@AncestorEmpire1]

Luke’s disbelief or crappy storytelling? One is truth, the other is a lie told to a fandom by an evil corporation.

[@ivanfiorani1363]

I’d say go to the inspiration of the force..Hindu and Buddhism. The yin and yang. The light can’t exist without darkness and vice versa, and there is never a perfect balance. It shifts from light to dark and back…like a pendulum. Anikan was to bring balance back to the force, which he did. He allowed the dark to rise up again, and gave the light hope through Luke and leia . Force ghosts can help but obviously not change the corse of destiny. Plus “we” and the characters in Star Wars don’t know what’s beyond death etc

[@emberfist8347]

Well I have to disagree with Snoke he seems to imply balance is an equal light and dark which isn't the case as George explained.

[@Queldonus]

I can’t understand why people keep looking at the Disney movies as part of the other 6. They objectively aren’t compatible with each other and no matter how you feel about them, you have to look at them as their own universe.

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

Cause Disney is trying ti make everyone see it that way?

[@arnaudgerard1971]

Can Jedi glimpse the future? Who does that? The Force Ghost(s)?

[@Rakshiir]

I think there are alot of issues in the 8th movie especially, but the whole new trilogy. There are alot of things I don't want to see as canon because I don't really think it makes sense in the light of what Lucas did setup so to speak First time I saw the scene it somehow felt odd to me, off. I could not put the finger on it, only later I realised that to me it doesn't make sense that they can ACTIVELY act in such a way.

[@therubicon]

The sequel series is a Canon the expanded universe and the first six are the only things I considered Canon. That's not how Force ghost works otherwise Obi-Wan Kenobi could have defeated Darth Vader and the emperor

[@chrisscully1817]

So much of the knowledge and wisdom of the Force is unexplained. Was Luke the Real Choosen 1? Or was it Anakin/Vader all this time and his turn to the light side and destroying Palpy the real reason he was the choosen 1 too? Maybe Force Ghosts has limits or certain powers at the particular moment 🤔 ? Is there a future for another Choosen 1 in the SW future???

[@munozali1]

I think The Last Jedi was overall pretty mediocre. That said, in terms of Yoda, I think he appeared to Luke then because he had cut himself off from the Force. Once he re-established his Force connection he was able to see Yoda and talk to him again. I don't think Luke's character was "assassinated" by him going into hiding and giving up. He was traumatized, and I can see how he could react the way he did. I just don't think that was the best route to take with Luke or the sequel story overall, because it just made the sequels more of a rehash of the OT. There was very little originality, and when there was it was very poorly implemented, in my view. I completely agree, as you stated in another video, that they should have hired a director and writers to commit to the trilogy for a few years instead of switching it up and not having that grand vision from the start. Ok, rant over for now. 😁

[@crisisamonginfinitedarthsa4220]

The Force Ghosts are a lot like Whis from Dragon Ball. Law of the angels and all that.

[@Carcat25]

When can we do Director Krennic in Battle of the Heroes and Villians?

[@MetalSandman999]

The reason the Force ghosts didn't intervene and use lightning to fight the Sith is because they were never intended to have that kind of earthly power. Their influence wasn't supposed to be expanded upon, and the wars part of Star Wars was supposed to with Return of the Jedi. That's the actual answer. Had there been intention to include them more extensively in the story, George Lucas would have given actual rules to avoid the endless plotholes that were opened up by the sequel trilogy. We wouldn't have to speculate or extrapolate on a few obscure statements from The Clone Wars cartoon. It's okay to admit that Disney (and arguably late-stage George Lucas, to a lesser extent) just messed it up and there isn't a rhyme or reason to it. After all, it's just pew pew lasers and a series about space wizards intended for children, amiright?

[@ghostbeetle2950]

I agree with your basic philosophical speculation re: light side not identical with Jedi. But I have to wonder if your attempt (once again) to try to desperately read a consistent message into what is a massively messy continuity cluster-f is based on anything else than trying to pull some content out of your...nose? Incentives of content creation being what they are, etc, etc. We know that Lucas had originally planned to have Yoda/Obiwan return from the underworld of the force to help Luke defeat the Emperor in an early script of RotJ. Which would have been a direct realization of Obiwan's "more powerful than you can imagine". It was written out of the final version for both sensible, dramatic reasons and for financial ones, I think. Quigon and ANY of the sopho-moronic BS Lucas has him spout wasn't even a mad twinkle in George's eye at that point. Tl;dr There is not, nor CAN there BE any internally consistent "Force"-rational for explaining away all of these contradictions. When will you (and all of the other Lotus-eaters out there) be able to accept that Starwars is a mess, and the only way to rescue it is to have the balls to call out the bullshit we fans have been served over years for what it really is? I'm completely happy to grant anybody the right to make their own claims there. I have no desire to force anybody to accept my own particular opinion on what is good/REAL Starwars. The only thing I would ask the rest of you is to please stop pretending that it is all prime ribeye! At least some of this stuff is beneath contempt, much less consideration. Free yourself from that slavish devotion to sucking up every single cowchip coming out of Lucasfilm, as long as it just has the Starwars TM logo! Your life will be much happier.

[@rosario5972]

Didn't Anakin and Luke rebalance the force? The Jedi actually were part of the unbalanced nature of the force. Yoda was wrong when he said 'once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will'. Anakin and Luke both came back from the Dark side. The other unbalanced nature was that the biggest part missing from the Jedi was love. Both Family love which is what saved Anakin. And romantic love. The denial of romantic love is what drove Anakin towards the dark side.

[@ignaciomoreno9655]

Luke said that he said in TLJ because a hack that didn't know anything about lore and twisted it to serve his narrative. So, trying to make sense of that is nearly imposible.

[@vagarcia74]

Is Luke represents the writer's misunderstanding of how the light and dark work.

[@astromo1]

another banger video