Breaking down Richard Siegler's Nova Open Winning Tau List Warhammer 40k

[@mightyseagull5709]

I think you've missed a few key points of this list. 1. The drones, and especially the Pathfinder drones are there to score points, savior protocol AND move block. Pathfinder drones also Vanguard. That's 7" vanguard, 8" move and advance/charge to moveblock units in the opponents tablehalf turn 1 and 2. What the drones capabilities are was less important, the fact that they could Vanguard was what he wanted. 2. The purpose of this list is to be aggressive. He Mont'kas his list almost every time. He's getting 2 full stacks of markerlights turn 1 and 2 and uses the Riptides as bludgeoning weapons and shields for his Commanders. The Riptides are there to shoot, survive to late game, and charge stuff with 3++ while the drones score and the commanders pick apart the opponent. So that's actually extremely different to how most people play their Tau and the reason why he won. Tau MSU, movement and defensive capabilities meant that he could come into late game with the firepower superiority of the Commanders and still have enough small units with excellent movement and fly to rack up points against his opponent.

[@ThaddeusCorn]

Brilliant addition and super informational. I only just recently realized how great drones are for movement blocking and forcing people to take my overwatch.

[@AdnanCucak]

Great video! Im new to Tau and your channel has been a god send to me, hope to see more breakdown videos like this!

[@InvasiveWargaming]

Glad to help. Welcome to the Greater Good

[@ipsumquaerere6927]

37 shield drones 4 support drones (grav and puls) 2 recon drones Are we the baddies?

[@zarlus8]

Geeze, that's so many drones.

[@melon_cat6964]

The sheer number of drones gave me a nervous chuckle.

[@InvasiveWargaming]

Hahahaha yeah.... I'm... I'm a.... gonna go check on something...

[@knoxminis1211]

This is why I don't think I could ever seriously try competitive 40K. Regardless of the army, it's always some form of cheese that wins out, lol

[@ThePeacemaker848]

17 years ago when I started 40k, I was pretty good at my local club. People asked if I was a tournament player. At 17 years old I had only ever gone to MTG tournaments which had random card elements to the game but it was much rule structured and almost no leeway for interpretation like measuring ranges, blast templates, guess ranges, etc... To my mind I couldn't figure out how people could even consider a measurement game like 40k as a tournament style game with prizes. Boggles my mind how their is a $10k prize pool vegas tournament for this. How do you get around 1/16th of an inch measurement variations when 10,000 dollars is on the line? And even after, with 360degre true line of sight. There isn't much strategy and you just end up hoping to roll better than opponent. ...basically the equivalent of gabling at casino tables, so I guess that part is fine. Entry fee gets you a couple days worth of gaming with a chance at cash prize money = better than the gambling tables. Now, 40k with a hexagonal grid system I could see this type of prize money tournaments happening and being very competitive.

[@hsawaknow80]

"For the Greater Good"

[@bluhfer1445]

For the laughing God!!!

[@Aleksandrgrc]

The support drones get a pre first turn move with the pathfinders. Meaning they can be way out there for a first turn fast moving riptide.

[@LoLo-wz3bq]

or if you want to throw your opponent off and have a unit to tie their front line up in combat first turn.

[@Aleksandrgrc]

How much will those two drone squads suffer if they end up being back or mid board control and the main force is a target priority that's much closer.

[@Aleksandrgrc]

@@LoLo-wz3bq why do one when you should do both.

[@mafaRino]

Thanks to you, for all the Nice vids!

[@villian_von_badguy_ii145]

I'm not an expert, but I think your assessment is dead on.

[@Lfcsweden-n5m]

Love seeing em Vertical tracker rock ;)

[@FunkyJay]

Does this list not make you a little open for the opponent to get loads of killpoints because of all the small drone squads? Or are kill points generally not a thing in competitive?

[@Mechanical_mind94]

I believe they are capped, so it isn't worth shooting at more than a few per round to get the kill points. Take into account the shield drones ability to shrug off wounds and it's not really worth the time.

[@2xsumsaR]

you should listen to frontline gamings latest art of war, Richard is on and talking about that list, this is before nova though

[@LoLo-wz3bq]

i listened to that interview and it was a great discussion with him walking through how he thinks about the game. he also uses shield as a melee screen and tying up enemy units in combat, which is great to see him not just using them to take wounds for the riptides.

[@nirktheman-thingstab-cutter]

I have a quick question. Are XV25s able to equip any of the new Support Systems added in the Kill Team Elites book? They certainly can equip these things in 40k proper.

[@markhohenbrink5230]

Until tau gets a new troop choice or firewarriors are reduced in price we will keep seeing shield drone spam. But it's not even the core of the army, it's the way they play that's critical. In his interview he did not care that the drones died. There is the pillar of riptides and he only has 6 cp. So it's just whining, cuz no one hasn't gone up against flier spam

[@mr_rogersM320]

Was it difficult to not laugh your entire way through this? Because I started giggling to no end as soon as I saw that list.

[@ThePeacemaker848]

When 8th edition launched with the index's, after a couple games I quickly realized that a competitive list would be always have a hefty chunk of points in drones. It kind of amazing me how shocked people get at this type of list given the mechanics of the game. ...360degree true line of sight + The only thing in the game that lets you tack on extra wounds to your units with the hefty weapons = of course drone spam. What boggles my mind is how people try to rely on close combat to the point that the Tau Spet tenant is the auto-include. Are there that many space wolves and blood angels players not willing to give up close combat?

[@Mechanical_mind94]

Seriously. Swap out the close combat for enough dakka to pick apart the drones.

[@Zaldras]

What warlord trait did he put on his enforcer?

[@benhadaway3322]

THrough unity devastation.

[@1R0QU012]

I was confused because I watched this review yesterday, haha.

[@rathstar]

I see some of the whining about shield drones, and when a list has this number i can understand, however it would be great if you could do a review of how Tau as a whole did a NOVA and are doing at major tournaments. They seem to be a few ppl doing well with them, but I don't think they are winning as many as some other factions. What's your take ?

[@russwarhammergateway152]

Great review and explanation esp. re: Nova format. How would this list change to be better for ITC do you think? I want to try it but worried about losing so many small units each turn and handing over the kill more bonus.

[@zarlus8]

The quick and easy fix is to consolidate the 2 model units of drones into larger 5/6 model units. You probably could swap out an enforcer for Shadowsun and Pathfinders for strike teams, to try to make a battalion, but I don't know how much you want to edit the list.

[@russwarhammergateway152]

@@zarlus8 this is the type of response I was after to deal with ITC vs Nova. Similar models used but in a different format

[@rathstar]

@@russwarhammergateway152 However the list would not work the same. He already has 3 tactical drone units so you'd only making them bigger increasing the chance of losing some to morale. Also the removal of the pathfinders gets rid of their drones which are integral to his list, for increasing the drone count and giving him the option of an advance move, followed by a move and run turn 1 to move block or get objectives early. The two man drone units are also great for sacrificing to get an objective for a turn. He has been using a similar list in ITC tournaments, only without any fire warriors. He added the single unit of fire warriors for a NOVA mission. Check out his recent ITC results. On the kill more, he can sacrifice all the 2 man drone units to savior protocols in a single turn or two, hence only giving up kill more once or twice. He did a great interview about his list on the Art of War podcast for frontline gaming. It appears the list plays differently to the majority of Tau tournament lists. Being very aggressive (nearly always mont'ka-ing turn 1), taking the mid-field and choosing secondaries like recon.

[@benhadaway3322]

Not really. He did an interview on Art of War. He accepts the fact that he will give up kill more in the early rounds so that he can hold more get secondaries. Plus its forces the opponent to split fire to pick off all those units potentially wasting shots. He also uses them to move block and or screen/feed small units to lock up stuff in assault and slow down enemy if needed. remember in itc its just kill more per TURN, so if the opponent kills 5 2 man units T1 thats only 1 turn of bonus, rather than spreading it out.

[@davelee6002]

Is it assumed that each detatchment is T'au Sept?

[@InvasiveWargaming]

yes

[@beholdbehold]

What do you think of this list compared to Nick Nanavati’s 3rd place Summer Slaughter list? Also do you think shield drones are gonna get nerfed?

[@InvasiveWargaming]

Nanavati's list is more like something I would build - it's not as tight as Siegler's and is a little more flexible with ranges. However, Nanavati's list lacks the S8 shots that Siegler's can get with the CIB Coms and I don't think coldstars are fully necessary when a xv8 com could likely take at least one of their slots. I don't think that NOVA alone will determine drone adjustments. However, you do hear a lot of complaints about them, and I think GW will respond to that more keenly now that Tau won Nova. I'll probably do a video on this...

[@beholdbehold]

@@InvasiveWargaming Nice. Yeah, I foresee a lot more lists like this popping up soon. Here's an interview with Richard about his list (if you haven't seen it already) btw: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pHvbZ5Wmfd56idE

[@zarlus8]

The nerf shouldn't go to the shield drones, it needs to go to the Riptide. They have too many gimmicks that make them far above average for Tau, imo. Alternatively, a buff to hammerheads would help balance things out. Example: the profile of the FW burst gun should be the same as the Riptide's and making the railgun heavy 2 (2 shots like all other rail variants).

[@LoLo-wz3bq]

you should listen to this episode where Nick interviews Richard. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pHvbZ5Wmfd56idE

[@renaissancenovice7202]

I tend to make some odd lists and this is definitely odd

[@renaissancenovice7202]

9 man team of crisis suits with flamers backed up by a Commander with no guns? Sure but this list is weird. Lol

[@mustangmafia3729]

How many points does this list come out to be?

[@InvasiveWargaming]

1999

[@Yotrymp]

I think a big strength that's got a lot less to do with any weapons or math (simple math, at least) is you only have SIX models doing any substantial shooting, with some support. That's only six models you have to consider the positions of to get the right angles for shooting (or support for C&C Nodes). And along with that, only 2 main loadouts doing most of the work. I'd imagine his turns were quick and didn't take too much thinking. It actually has a set plan that doesn't take much adapting to be effective. I hope he had a lot of fun. I'll always point out that Pathfinders have a great side ability which is moving up to 27in (16in average) across the board with an advance and recon sweep (which is legal). In a desperate moment, that's 5 models you can possibly throw half the length of the battlefield to capture a point, or even save a character a few wounds.

[@kashandi2]

Why 3 fireblades and no darkstrider?

[@skywatcheradept]

Siegler had Darkstrider in his Outrider Detachment

[@TheJayjam]

And then T'au players get mad they always get made fun off.

[@josejuangomez83]

Disapppointed because the editing of min 3:14... 😢

[@InvasiveWargaming]

Jose Juan Gomez long live the awkward pause

[@josejuangomez83]

@@InvasiveWargaming forever in our hearts

[@brib9716]

D'rone Empire. What a load of cheesy crap.

[@Rishkar-Peema-Pants]

Wow what a boring spam list

[@IMatchoNation]

I wish GW could actually make and balance a decent war game. I love their lore so much, but I just can't play this clunky, broken shit.

[@bluhfer1445]

Boo T'au 👎🏻 😏

[@russwarhammergateway152]

lol