Would be super cool if you made this a read-only file on Google Drive so we can access it real time as you update it. Would be a godsend.
@Rhugor4 жыл бұрын
That's a good idea. I think it was on the discord for patrons
@Drogue844 жыл бұрын
I've created one I'll put on Reddit when I get a chance.
@JKoby1234 жыл бұрын
@@Drogue84 link us, Dad
@Mithlinthar4 жыл бұрын
I was wondering if Coldstars are still just for "blowing stuff with 4 fusions". 3xAFP +AFP Supernova Launcher may be a quite interesting equipment for them, especially with ignoring LOS. AFP Coldstars can hide, be very mobile and decimate T3/T4 units. I quess. It would be cool to actually mathhammer this.
@yoashbarak3734 жыл бұрын
I tend to find the AFP to be pointless. its great against horde targets, but that kind of unit is easily dealt with other sources, and the AFP does not do much against even marines, let alone "value targets"
@rathstar4 жыл бұрын
Awesome work, thanks for compiling it and walking us through it. I like that you mentioned the other factors to consider, such as durability and range. This particularly affects breachers which are fragile and need to be at 5" range for your efficiency numbers. At look at mid range, say 15 to 18" would be interesting. Even with triple firing strike teams I think they struggle, however gun drones with a drone controller will pull ahead of the breachers easily. Range was only mentioned briefly and it can massively affect the analysis. If we're looking at breachers at 5" range we could include my hybridised weapon triple flamer crisis suits, which at 12" range will piss all over farsight AFP, however being able to fire out of line of sight is nice. I was using 40 fire warriors, 15 pathfinders and 10 kroot, so 65 infantry, but that has dropped to 30 in my early 9th edition lists. I don't think (but would be happily proved wrong) that the benefit of objective secured and infantry being needed for many secondaries outweighs the 28% increase in strike team costs (and don't get me started on the 38% and 50% increase in pathfinders and kroot).
@InsectSpray4 жыл бұрын
I've been building my lists around the AIA Riptide since PA came out. That thing is a BEAST! first time I used it knocked out a baneblade in one turn of shooting. If it shoots the target dies. You don't have to nova the gun as it's overcharge is flat 6 shots. So it's always in a 3+invul and there is just no comparison to its gun. Str9 ap5 d3+3 damage. Godlike.
@Willireallyam4 жыл бұрын
And when you tagget by a 10 man ork or nid squad, it won't kill the unit in CC and becomes usless for a turn
@SerpensRgn4 жыл бұрын
@@Willireallyam and when you don't get tagged by a squad, it won't become useless for a turn. just don't get tagged
@InsectSpray4 жыл бұрын
@@Willireallyam well actually the AIA is not a blast weapon. So it can shoot in combat
@InsectSpray4 жыл бұрын
@@Willireallyam plus SMS that 8 shots at - 1. They charged. FTGG would have hurt them
@yoashbarak3734 жыл бұрын
Yea, it AIA is basically a must-have in every tau list. even agressive FSE lists take him for the sheer anti-tank murder.
@joshuareed76144 жыл бұрын
Take a look at Supremacy armour. I ran it in my8thed list and now it is even cheaper. And drones can soak for it since it is a battle suit.
@NinjaPokeProductions4 жыл бұрын
Beat me to it.
@Markus-zb5zd4 жыл бұрын
Heck yeah, 2+ BS on this beast
@joshuareed76144 жыл бұрын
Markus I rand, and still run almost nothing but drones with this guy. Teaches knight players a thing a 2 LoL
@Markus-zb5zd4 жыл бұрын
@@joshuareed7614 I run him with shadowsun, a Ghostkeel with the scrambler, a few XV25 and sniper drones + marksmen. Super annoying for the enemy. Everything is either the backline ta'unar that is not going for any objective, a screening keel or something else with a - to hit.
@joshuareed76144 жыл бұрын
@@Markus-zb5zd I run almost nothing but gun drones, 35 in seven 5 man squads, along with shadowsun and 1 BS commander. 2 repair drones, some markerlight drones and 5 shield drones. with the points drop I am going to add a couple of small things.
@Willireallyam4 жыл бұрын
Custom sept. Advanced warheads, Gifted Pilots. Commander, 4x missile pods, relic to reroll 1s to hit and wound. 3x ion hammer heads, sms, 2x seekers. 3x skyrays, sms Just using this a a base to your army, all with additional ap to missiles, all ignoring move ad shoot, tanks rerolling 1s to wound, and they start at bs 3+. These are now, imo the best units for 9th Ed. They cap, they survive, they shoot amazingly, its for it all. To back them up, work on farsite fliers to get over that cover and bomb
@cathode62524 жыл бұрын
What relic let's you re-roll attacks of 1, and wounds of 1?
@Willireallyam4 жыл бұрын
@@cathode6252 I apologise its not relic, its prototype weapon. Cross linked stailbiliser jets. From greater good book
@cathode62524 жыл бұрын
@@Willireallyam ahhhhhh, yeah that makes sense! Thanks👍
@tallcorbs4 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much for this! I'm a new Tau player and can't seem to ever settle on a list that I'm happy with. It's also a said state that the strike teams are just not making the grade now. I'd love to see your sample 1500 points list vs an space mariners (for example) if you could ever make one? Just would like to see your thought process around list building in 9th.
@SgtDeath19424 жыл бұрын
great video. This is the kind of analysis that I need going into games. Often I pick the wrong target for my units and this clears up some misconceptions I have. Also love crisis suits so want to see them fielded
@brunoferrid4 жыл бұрын
I've been having a great time playing with AFP Crisis as a back liner threat! Usually players tend to let low resilient units or horde holding the objectives in its deploy zone. What I'm doing is deep striking those crisis behind an obscure terrain and start popping hits without LOS, not only this make my opponent lose objectives, it make it lose time and turns trying to hunt those crises who are very resilient with the relic for canceling Ap-1 and -2 and for last I'm choosing Linebreaker secondaries so those Crisis tend to survive 3-4 turns earning me 12-15 points.
@taschenknecht24004 жыл бұрын
First off, thanks for the comparison. Appreciate all the work you put into this :) I would be interested in a comparison between the Relic Ion Riptide vs the Relic Rail Rifle Broadside. The Ion gun has better damage (3+d3 vs d6 min 3), but Broadsides bring more SMS in a squad of 3 for similar points. Also, what about Veteran crisis with Missilepods? Compared to Broadsides, you lose all the SMS, but you get a bit more mobility and better BS. Also curious on 3 MPs vs 2 + ATS. I tried the Relic Ion Riptide a couple of times in 8th and your numbers prove my feelings right. S9 and min 4 damage are really great ^^
@zera95794 жыл бұрын
With the shield drone price increase I think broadsides might actually be a great shout, tides are not going to be anywhere near as durable anymore and if you give the broadsides shield gen instead of ATS (unless I'm wrong they're not infantry so don't get the -1 to hit anymore?) then they should be great!
@yoashbarak3734 жыл бұрын
MP crisis are not even competing in the "efficient killing" department. a non-overcharged CiB has the same profile with 50% more shots. You take them because two of such suits costs like one HYMP+SMS broadside. so same number of missile shots, but no SMS and lower durability. Unless you Vet them, they have no real value, and honestly I ain't sure they do even if do you vet them. (didn't run the numbers, but I can tell its far behind CiB suits)
@rathstar4 жыл бұрын
@@yoashbarak373 Non overcharged cib only does 1 wound, plus your analysis of ignores the double range of the missile pod. Missile pod crisis suits can start on the board, while the cib crisis suits will likely be deepstriking so only firing turn 2 at the earliest. Crisis suits can shoot at all if tagged in combat, so the extra range on the missile pods allows them to operate at safer distances. The short range on the cib means it sometimes has to fire at what's in range not what you ideally want to fire at, less of an issue with the double range on the missile pod. While cib armed crisis suits are still good, writing off missile pod ones is a bit premature. Personally I don't use either load out as I don't play farsight, but having used missile crisis suits in previous editions I know they have their place.
@Drogue844 жыл бұрын
For what they're trying to do Magna Rail Broadsides and AIA Riptides are very similar on a wounds-per-point basis. The relic riptide is slightly better against tanks, the broadsides slightly better vs. invulns. The biggest difference in damage is that the broadsides do ~50-80% more to troops. However, the riptide is far more durable, with the 3+ invuln, and more mobile. An interesting comparison though. I can see the broadsides doing well if using a custom sept with hardened warheads, perhaps 3 of those to complement 3 or 6 HYMP ones. Missile pod crisis suits do roughly 2/3 the wounds per point compared to CIB crisis (just over 2/3 against everything anything except T4 & T8, about 1/2 vs. T4&8) for which you get extra range and don't have to overcharge. Not worth it for FSE in my view as you'll want to be inside 12" anyway for the markerlight. Where this becomes somewhat interesting is 3MP crisis suits with the hardened warheads sept tenet, but even then your paying 4 points and 1 strength for the range and not needing to overcharge. But even then HYMP broadsides do ~40-50% more damage per point vs. troops and ~30-35% vs. most other units. Crisis are more mobile, but with broadsides able to move and shoot I don't think the difference is worth it. In my view, for your damage dealers, if you're running hardened warheads you want HYMP broadsides and/or riptides, if you're running FSE you want crisis with CIBs (I prefer 2CIB+ATS personally) and perhaps 1 or 2 with fusion, and if you're running anything else you want riptides. With all of these you want lots of gun drones to clear out 1W troops, plus maybe with a 3-suit squad of burst cannon or flamer crisis to help with this and overwatch.
@mathewhitchiner74084 жыл бұрын
Always enjoy a bit of mathhammer - even without considering other utilities, damage math does help us cement the best targets for our favorite space goat fish units. Some are really intuitive, like the Fusion Blasters on suits to pick off elites and medium vehicles. Others are just completely surprising.
@Gabriel-nr8kd4 жыл бұрын
Ok i just started making my 9th edition tau list this video is a gift xd.
@drewethan6664 жыл бұрын
I'm trying to do the same but my battle scribe refuses to update to 9th ed points!
@Gabriel-nr8kd4 жыл бұрын
@@drewethan666 Did you download a new version of BattleScribe?
@drewethan6664 жыл бұрын
@@Gabriel-nr8kd all sorted! =-)
@Tiegonnick4 жыл бұрын
Awsome video as always. Did you include three Broadsides with the relic Magna Rail Rifles? That would have a weapon profile fairly similar to the Relic Riptide for as cheap as 258 points. I bet both the relic Riptide and relic Broadside would be a nice combo against big targets.
@sludgedisciple4 жыл бұрын
I can say my unit of 3 Magna Rail Rifle broadsides has been brutal for my enemies in 8th, Curious to see how they fare in 9th.
@smokusmoczynski19994 жыл бұрын
Great video! I wish i could know: 1. Tiger shark efficiency including modulated weaponary stratagem (as it's the only reason to run him, and it pomp's out his dmg output by a lot) 2.Also When it comes to veteran crisis suits, any combination of double weapon and drone controler should be really good as it offers effectively 2+ hit rolls, rerolling one's from whatever (single markerlight (achivable out of stratagem) farsight enclave ability or any other reason. 3.One thing im really curious as well is regular crisis suits equipped with 3x flamers and upgraded to a strenght 5 at 6" rerolling 1ns to wound at 6" from enclave aswell. They seem pretty cheap for the avarage amount of dmg they can do. Idk if you have the option to include reroll's into the statistics though?
@brennefleisch4 жыл бұрын
Good content. 20 min video, 6 ad breaks. KZbin is getting far more invasive than cable commercials.
@giancarloavancini4 жыл бұрын
great content as usual... One thing I think you should try as seems not correct is the Tiger Shark with ION cannon, CIB, 2 MP and 2 Skyspear ALL Overcharge. And also using it with the strat for 1 CP to maximize the gun... The difference in my opinion should be huge! With so many commando points I think this unit should be the most efficient in our arsenal... 12 x S8 -2 & 3D / 12 x S6 -2 & 2D / 6 x S8 -1 D3 / 4 x S6 -1 D3 all hitting with BS2!!!!
@danielbordier72824 жыл бұрын
So for a well rounded list (not a very specialised list) : Riptides (HBC/relic depending on the situation), gun drones and breachers.
@dooper5114 жыл бұрын
I still bring the strike team over breachers. Extra range seems like it's nice in 9th since you're hitting the whole board with strike teams. I'm pretty new to 40k, so I'm definitely willing to be wrong here. Definitely bring the triptides if you're trying to crush people, though.
@milesrodger37244 жыл бұрын
What a delightful morning surprise! Thank you!
@juliankim5194 жыл бұрын
pathfinders and darkstrider, since the lost of the fly keyword, darkstrider is a replacement for that, with a pathfinder squad you can keep running and shooting and play tau how they used to be with played, with the exception that they are infantry instead of drones, and battlesuits
@Neffariousnyc4 жыл бұрын
How would you run Veteran Cadre? Obviously it has to be Farsight Enclaves, but what would a list look like?
@jakobpope4 жыл бұрын
I’d like to see the efficiency changes with some marker light effects included.
@Mithlinthar4 жыл бұрын
Oh. Something I was waiting for.
@zera95794 жыл бұрын
Great video as always dude. Great to see breachers and gun drones so high up (that was my gut feeling so always nice lol). Would love to know the difference between the vet and non vet crisis and the railgun tigershark actually. Any way/chance of putting that spreadsheet online somehow? Cheers
@zera95794 жыл бұрын
So managed to run the numbers for all the tigershark variants and vets vs non vets. The vet strat is worth consistantly between 1-1.6 more damage per model which is roughly 8 - 15 points less per wound caused so definitely worth it. The none AX-01 tigershark is surprisingly good , with the swiftstrike burst cannon it actually beat the ppw of the crisis and even more surprisingly with the railgun it trounced the Riptide.... Might need to rerun that cause it just doesn't feel right xD
@wrynil4 жыл бұрын
Will veteran crisis benefit from 5 markerlights? Or will they still be 3+ BS as it is capped at 1+ to hit?
@stephenerickson62234 жыл бұрын
I run my broadsides with missiles with custom Sept hardened warheads and the one do they can move and shoot. I can get -4 AP on high yield and -3 on sms if everything is done right. Seems to work well in a lot of different unit types.
@dRatteb4 жыл бұрын
i think nine of those will be the next Dominat list for tau. (3 with the relic Railguns) Do you take MP-Drohnes and do they perform well for you? I still have mixed feelings about them.
@justasheep44274 жыл бұрын
I think you don't need the move & shoot ability, now only infantry get the -1 to hit when they move.
@stephenerickson62234 жыл бұрын
@@dRatteb my list right now has 2 always with drones and ats. But for 9th I'm thinking of 3 with 2 riptides. I already play aggressively so movement is why I dont take a heap of broadsides. Regardless they work well for the jobs I use them for.
@stephenerickson62234 жыл бұрын
@@justasheep4427 your right 9th it wont matter so tau sept and position for overwatch. -4ap overwatch keeps dreads at bay.
@dRatteb4 жыл бұрын
@@stephenerickson6223 You wont get Tau sept when you use the custom one.
@warrenhall56864 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much. I was trying to figure out what to do with eventually building a T'au army.
@ajaxthepibble54534 жыл бұрын
Any chance to get a pdf of this?
@solventstudios4 жыл бұрын
What is a Veteren Crisis suit? I Know what standard XV8 Crisis Battlesuits are.. but I dont know what a Veteren one is? Is it just a Shas'vre?
@InvasiveWargaming4 жыл бұрын
Veteran cadre stratagem
@ostrimous4 жыл бұрын
@@InvasiveWargaming Thanks I was wondering this myself. I looked and couldn't find the stratagem and then found in 'The Greater Good,' only to find it is Farsight Enclaves specific. Interesting. I have 3 unbuilt Crisis battlesuits. Looks like magnets, velcro or sticky tack to swap weapons. As we don't typically have the weapons we want in the quantity we want, it looks like a third party website to hook that up. Suggestions?
@frogofbrass3824 жыл бұрын
I would like to see the Taunar on the list. Richard Siegler dominated with it in a recent battle report on the Art of War 40K channel.
@robotdude87494 жыл бұрын
Crisis adverted Pun intended
@dRatteb4 жыл бұрын
Are XV8 Vertans with Plasma Rifles missing? Also Fire Worriors are more efficent than Breachers when you add in Volly Fire.
@Sollapoke4 жыл бұрын
1 hour ago, this means it’s newwwwww! Can’t wait to see the video, keep up the good content we love it
@sarico78274 жыл бұрын
atm I like taking some stealth suits with a ghostkeel.
@SogScaryman4 жыл бұрын
I don't see hazard suits on your list, can you add them? I am very curious how they compare.
@Tryptic2144 жыл бұрын
As somebody who creates massive numbers of Excel documents at work, I suggest you change your conditional formatting to work by column. This way the best weapon for each target will be green. Also, with the potential Necron threat on the horizon, a T4 with 4+ save field would be useful. Also, I would really appreciate seeing Magna Rail Rifles (in a unit of 3 with C&C Node, perhaps out of range of its secondaries)
@InvasiveWargaming4 жыл бұрын
True, but then you couldn’t easily compare efficiency across targets. It’s helpful to know wheee we are most and least efficient
@Bl4ckC00k1e3 жыл бұрын
Can you share the Excell? Thanks for that work
@shigeolincolntaco4 жыл бұрын
I'm bringing a Tidewall to the table top watch out
@jackhaehl20334 жыл бұрын
Is flamer crisis not on the list? I've recently become interested in the build as they don't need to become veterans and the 12" buff to flamers makes them much more useful. With the vectored thrusters relic a hit and run 9d6 of flamer squad of crisis suits sounds very threatening.
@InvasiveWargaming4 жыл бұрын
Check out part 2
@harrysmith17004 жыл бұрын
Yes, the video I've been waiting for!
@jacktheripper69284 жыл бұрын
We are screwed. Tau at this point needs pretty much a whole re-work. I'm so sick of Triptides and mass drones to be compeditive I could puke. GW needs to re-think our boys.
@zera95794 жыл бұрын
If it makes you feel better I don't think triptide will be competitive this edition either xD
@jacktheripper69284 жыл бұрын
Zera No it don’t and that’s exactly my point. We’ve ONLY had that list to be competitive fir what 3 editions? I’m sick of it and I’d guess most Tau players are too. GW needs to re-write our codex more according to our fluff. Fast, maneuverable, hit and run tactics.
@adriangoodman89014 жыл бұрын
So I just bought my first ever pack of Warhammer stuff, got the paint and rulebook and it's the tau start collecting. All I have heard is tau are weak, could you elaborate on this?
@astolbro71834 жыл бұрын
Did air bursting frag launchers change or can someone explain to me why they are good I thought they sucked?
@russellwilliams94374 жыл бұрын
what the hell is a vetran crisis suite team i cant find them anywear in the codex ? is it a stratagem of some kind ?
@omegavulture83794 жыл бұрын
Riptide is over-tuned, water is wet...news at eleven
@jjaarr32084 жыл бұрын
I have run a relic Riptide with relic magna gun broadsides with a standard Ion Riptide against a GSC gun line with 4 leman Russ and 3 artillery tanks and he had no armor left at the end of the game. Can't wait to run them against the feared space marine centurions, whom they can out range, on a larger style board of course.
@TougherLoki4 жыл бұрын
Nice analysis! I love using spreadsheet to get a good balance. Does your spreadsheet have the ability to take ML into account? Also, kauyon has an impact on efficiency. Units that rely on volume of fire are impacted the most by taking these into account. (Yes, both are situational, but I can help understand when it's best to lock down a single target or spread the shooty-shooty love around the board) I have a far less comprehensive spreadsheet, but does allow to adjust for ML effects (at 1ML and 5ML) and kauyon. Happy to share if you happen to see this comment and are interested.
@ajack221004 жыл бұрын
Noticed that regular burst cannons in a custom sept with Upgunned wasn't on the list. Curious if this gets competitive against the riptide against marines on certain units.
@Yshelomov4 жыл бұрын
I think that in the end, it's hard to outweigh the benefit of +3 to hit Crisis that FSE gets... but I'd be happy to be proven wrong!
@Drogue844 жыл бұрын
Upgunned burst cannon crisis suits are really good. Going from AP 0 to 1 is far more important than 1 to 2, so you tend to take 2BC+ATS on standard crisis and 3BC on upgunned ones, meaning upgunned effectively lets you run 3BC+ATS. An extra burst cannon is 50% more shots and 50% more expected wounds, compared to the 26.7% more you get from the better BS of veteran cadre. Interestingly, the gatling burst cannon relic and veteran cadre are identical on burst cannon crisis suits, as both give you an extra hit 1/6 of the time. If you take the view that upgunned works on the gatling relic (the rules aren't clear and the FAQ didn't help) you get similar performance to gun drones with a drone controller (the best in the faction against 1W infantry) - slightly better vs. marines and 3+ saves, slightly worse vs. guard and 5+ - without the limitation of having to shoot the nearest target. Having said that, crisis suits with 3 flamers and hybrid weaponry perform even better against 1W infantry, not to mention being utterly insane in overwatch.
@ajack221004 жыл бұрын
@@Drogue84 personally I like running stealth suites with Upgunned. They also have a get out of jail free card with Wall of Mirrors that crisis teams lack provided there's a burst-keel in support.
@Drogue844 жыл бұрын
@@ajack22100 I run stealth teams in almost everything, as it's fantastic screening for Coldstars, great for performing secondary actions in 9th (infantry keyword), and so durable. Though the lack of firepower compared to burst crisis is very noticeable.
@deang80174 жыл бұрын
What's the math on Magna Rail Rifle Broadsides? I would assume they are about the same efficiency as the relic Riptide.
@hobbsythe2nd5684 жыл бұрын
Great vid, thanks very much. How do non-vet crisis do vs the vets? And how about strike teams at half range with and without the cadre vs gun drones?
@simonmasla4 жыл бұрын
This is the video I needed! Would be interesting to how we talk about the utility, opsec, and staying power in relation to clearing power.
@academic0chris4 жыл бұрын
Yeah, that might be a fun companion video to see the staying power of obsec units against things like lasgun fire, rapid fire bolter, meltas, etc. And you can then overlap the two sheets with different complementary colors (maybe red and blue) and the purple band is the most efficient choice.
@shoePatty4 жыл бұрын
Can you check (3x and 2x+ATS) flamer crisis suits? With Hybridized Weaponry they can deep strike in range now and I'm really curious how they do against different profiles.
@wrynil4 жыл бұрын
The horror when I had 13 flamers being charged by plaugemarines, scored only 28 hits.. - he saved them all. What a shitty friday that was.
@iragfc6004 жыл бұрын
idk if I missed it but what about (magna) rail rifle broadsides?
@idbuyanewbmx4 жыл бұрын
This is fantastic! I need to make one for my Necrons
@sidrotv46994 жыл бұрын
Were you gonna share the sheet?
@cavattack14 жыл бұрын
Is that Excel file shareable? I was also curious if that file takes into account rules or additional scenarios, such as FSE getting reroll ones within 12 inches. Is it something that can be updated to include additional load outs, like crisis suits with plasma or upgunned burst cannons?
@jakrapongpattamasaevi60844 жыл бұрын
Very nice extreme value add content. Was rail xv88 part of this analysis?
@giancarloavancini4 жыл бұрын
and broadside with Magna Rifle also please.... And I wonder if the R'yahra point is always with the Nova charged weapons.. 3 x D6 autohits should be quite high vs T4-T5 and even T6....
@hoodlumX254 жыл бұрын
Can you do the same sort of list with Tau HQs?
@pierrepoulin96084 жыл бұрын
What is a veteran crisis suit???
@justinvanvolkenburg52984 жыл бұрын
I am curious about Burst Cannon and mixed weapon suits.
@1R0QU0124 жыл бұрын
That’s cool and all, but I get to take the models I want. Do like the data aspects of this though. As more of a hobbyist than a gamer, I can appreciate working in excel to find efficiency.
@stein19194 жыл бұрын
run what's fun
@blindsamhare59544 жыл бұрын
Do you think the smart missile system is really good because of the way terrain works now
@ForTehNguyen4 жыл бұрын
I would think so, now that its easier to hide in ruins. Any indirect fire weapon basically got a buff whereas its harder to target around terrain in 9E
@Varmint1114 жыл бұрын
Won't we get a new codex updated for ninth?
@Mithlinthar4 жыл бұрын
We will. But not soon. SM and Necrons will be out in October, so our codex probably will be out in 2021
@nfortin244 жыл бұрын
Brand new to the game.. just picked up the start collecting for tau... whats the difference with "veteran" crisis suits?
@InvasiveWargaming4 жыл бұрын
Veteran cadre stratagem
@nfortin244 жыл бұрын
@@InvasiveWargaming oh, I saw that. Okay, I thought it was something else I missed. Those are only farsight though correct?
@daz43774 жыл бұрын
Curious about storm surge
@drewethan6664 жыл бұрын
Hey Mike. So I'm still unsure of the exact points changes to the T'au codex for 9th. I'm trying to work on new Army lists but as battle scribe still hasn't updated its proving rather troublesome. Any websites or pages where I can get this information would be very helpful. Cheers
@InvasiveWargaming4 жыл бұрын
Battle scribe is updated, make sure you refresh your data
@drewethan6664 жыл бұрын
@@InvasiveWargaming okay I've tried to update the data but still doesn't look like the points have changed. I'll keep trying and restart my phone too. Thanks for the reply!
@drewethan6664 жыл бұрын
@@InvasiveWargaming i have version 2.03.25 for battle scribe and have updated the data as requested. But this still has not changed any of the points values or allowed me to build a new list with a 9th edition update. How annoying lol
@InvasiveWargaming4 жыл бұрын
Did you try making a new roster and selecting 9e instead of 8e? I don’t think it updates points on existing rosters cause it’s technically a new system
@drewethan6664 жыл бұрын
@@InvasiveWargaming all sorted now! Took abit of figuring out but I managed to get it done. Thanks for the support Mike.
@Leonix134 жыл бұрын
Interesting list... The numbers are stats vs single models, right?
@InvasiveWargaming4 жыл бұрын
Yes
@Leonix134 жыл бұрын
Interesting... will be curious to see how Blast fairs vs units of 6-10 which should be fairly common. Also I didn't see Kroot Hounds or Krootox (Kroot Gun & Melee+Rage Strat).
@Sykdude4 жыл бұрын
It's awesome to see all this raw data. But to really be honest, I'm not sure how to build a list using it.
@InvasiveWargaming4 жыл бұрын
I’ll do a vid on it :) this is just one piece of the puzzle
@neovo9034 жыл бұрын
I'm wondering where you are getting the Large Blast keyword from for the afp? Is it the 11 models or more rule for the auto 6 shots?
@neovo9034 жыл бұрын
Also, check out this, I found that if you were going to use a relic on a Crisis suit unit, it's better to do Crosslinked Stabiliser Jets as opposed to Gatling Burst Cannon drive.google.com/file/d/1k-zmlEwYh14mA1jB_TlmL5i1TYteZQlv/view?usp=sharing
@InvasiveWargaming4 жыл бұрын
Correct
@johnadam41174 жыл бұрын
You should of included the Supremacy Armou tu'unar and its load outs... its under 880 points for 1 fully loaded now.
@fightindice62274 жыл бұрын
He should not waste time because it will be changed. I love my super Tuna BUT at that point cost it is broken.
@fightindice62274 жыл бұрын
Would love to see a Tau Naval review like this. Sun Shark Bombers, Tiger Shark (in-depth), Remora, etc.
@harrysmith17004 жыл бұрын
@@fightindice6227 Yes, the current point cost looks like an error. Looks like they forgot to transfer the weapons costs to the body.
@johnadam41174 жыл бұрын
@@fightindice6227 i would also like to see the naval. Have you seen the load out on the tuna? 4 sms, 4 bc, min of 12 that are ap -4 damage d6 shots with its arms, 2d6 shots that are ap -3 damage 3 (this also is double damage against other titanic models). Its worth putting out there since it also can deal a decent amount of damage in melee combat. It will be in my list for 9th.
@NinjaPokeProductions4 жыл бұрын
@@harrysmith1700 It's no error. Brian - one of the members of the Tabletop Titans channel - has said he has it on very good authority that it is not an error as he had the same thoughts and spoke to one of his contacts in GW for confirmation. This could be because they are removing the Battlesuit keyword so it can no longer tank a volcano lance with a shield drone despite being twice the size of a Stormsurge.
@DareToWonder3 жыл бұрын
best way to kill mortarion?
@gerritvandenbosch46814 жыл бұрын
Points efficiency isn't always the best metric. Effective fire on point is also a consideration.
@J.Panxer4 жыл бұрын
XV9s with fusion are more points efficient than vet xv8's w stabilization (even after the forgeworld knee cappening). 4 words. Command and control node. I still like the thought of xv8's with fusion and reactive countermeasures, but 8, 18" fusion shots vs 18 12" fusion shots with re-rolls and ccn will even defeat necron vehicles with unvul saves and 4+ wound abilities.
@Drogue844 жыл бұрын
Love the video, but sadly some of the numbers are wrong. For example: 2CIB+ATS vet crisis suits firing at a T3, 5+, 1W target take 6 shots, expecting to hit 4 and wound 3.33, with no saving throw. Dividing by 71 points gives 0.0469 wounds per point, not the 0.0352 your spreadsheet gives. Your 3CIB vet crisis suit figure is correct though. This makes a big difference as 2CIB+ATS crisis suits generally outperform the 3CIB option on a wounds per point basis, except minorly against GEQ. Just realised, your figures for some of the crisis suits are for BS4+, without the veteran cadre.
@InvasiveWargaming4 жыл бұрын
Thanks, I’ll check the numbers
@InvasiveWargaming4 жыл бұрын
Yep, forgot to change the bs on that suit, but other vet suits are correct
@Drogue844 жыл бұрын
@@InvasiveWargaming Just to add, your riptide numbers are also off - I think your numbers are correct if you assume the main gun auto hits. For example take the HBC SMS ATS riptide vs. an intercessor, where you have it as the #1 most efficient: the HBC makes 18 shots with Novacharge, hitting 9 times (4s), wounding 6 (3s), 4 (5s) failing their save, meaning it does 8 expected damage. The SMS adds another 1.33 expected damage, for a total of 9.33. Divided by the 305 cost gives 0.0306 Exp. D per point, not the 0.566 you have, putting it mid table for efficiency. The relic AIA SMS ATS seems even more off, and isn't fully explained by the above so I can't work out exactly why we have different figures. For example vs a standard T8 S3+ 12W tank I calculate the main gun doing 10 expected wounds, the SMS adding 0.66, making it 0.0333 expected damage per point, way off the 0.0772 you have. Still around the best performer, but handily beaten by fusion commanders and crisis suits, and narrowly by CIB-armed veterans, rather than being the standout #1. I may have missed something here, though I can't think what I could have that would explain the discrepancy. Putting these together give a really different picture of what's efficient though. Veteran crisis suits become distinctly more efficient in terms of damage than riptides, winning virtually every category (AFP/burst/flame vs. 1W, CIB vs. 2-3W and 4+W with invulns, fusion vs. 4+W without invulns), which compensates for their lower durability and CP cost.
@Drogue844 жыл бұрын
I'm happy to swap spreadsheets if you'd like to see my working. I've made minor differences in assumptions in a couple of places (e.g. D3 wound vs. 2W: while the first wounding hit does an expected 1.67 wounds subsequent ones need to take previous hits into account, meaning a crisis team with CIBs ends up doing ~1.52 E(W) per wounding hit).
@benzaman114 жыл бұрын
isnt the rvarna not blast
@thesebiforce31334 жыл бұрын
Honestly I'd like a cool T'au vs Space Marine starter set for the game. Like how we've always had space meen and ork boiz sets for so long and now necrons and spac meenz. I think I should make a pdf for something like this for people getting into playing the game instead of just building t'au models like I did. lowkey thinking of it p hard lmao. Just need more free time is all
@qballa27874 жыл бұрын
I feel like it’s more likely we might end up fighting Chaos. That death guard story was really good
@thesebiforce31334 жыл бұрын
@@qballa2787 Yeah Tau vs Chaos would be great. Honestly wouldn't mind taking the opportunity to spotlight Slaanesh. -- Slaanesh doesn't even have a listed army on GWS's site lol. I really do hope Slaanesh gets full on support, like a codex, the other gods have their own. I could see FSE fighting Slaanesh after the whole deathguard encounter, and then some black legion possibly. Just sucks that the current noise marine minnies are conversion kits that are several years behind everyone else. Although the daemons look great. Just hope my girlfriend can build her slaanesh as a full on army instead of it being just daemons and bits from other armies.
@Clintv424 жыл бұрын
4:45, 7:32 were the first two adds. I’m not done watching yet and the last video of yours I watched had 15 adds. I’m trying to watch your videos because you got great stuff to day but if you can scaling those adds back is important.
@InvasiveWargaming4 жыл бұрын
Crazy. I didn’t put those in. Looks like YT changed default settings to put in mid-rolls. Will address this.
@NightRazor4 жыл бұрын
Is the a way to get this file?
@InvasiveWargaming4 жыл бұрын
You don’t want to know.
@slemph22144 жыл бұрын
i always thought crisis suits with 2 CIB and ATS are better than 3 CIBs :c
@8xon84 жыл бұрын
Dunno really about the hype for crisis suits.... Yes they're points efficient but they die so easily and to make them any use at all you have to play farsight and use the veteran cadre strat and if you didn't want them to die you're gonna have to use more cp (5+++ fnp strat) But too cp hungry for a decent unit that dies so easily for my taste
@mann03114 жыл бұрын
This is 8th ed points right?
@InvasiveWargaming4 жыл бұрын
9e
@mann03114 жыл бұрын
@@InvasiveWargaming ah I see good stuff!
@kylearchbold51894 жыл бұрын
Everything is better in Excel
@МятыйКот4 жыл бұрын
Guys, this is very sad .. I tried kill team for Tau six months ago. I liked it and I decided to collect an army of the Great Good. And almost immediately, the 9th edition comes to Warhammer. And your only favorite faction ends up in complete shit. And now I am even afraid to buy something and build a roster, because it is not known what will be in the new code and my roster may be absolutely unplayable. The thing is that the tau were originally made such that they drove them to a dead end .. You cannot fight, but you shoot. if you did not manage to shoot the enemy on the way to you, you are dead. Hit or miss. Black or white. Only two options. And to run to you with such shooting, ballistics skill, with such a miserable overwatch will not be difficult for any army in general. What can fix this situation? 1) Increase the ballistic skill to 3+ It would seem that this would devalue the markerlights. But no. Just fix the marker table. For example: 1 marker-reroll 1to hit; 2 marker !!!! - overwatch 5+ or 4+; 3 markers - no cover benefits; and marker 4 is about missiles, and marker 5 is ATTENTION !! Not +1 that hit, but ignoring all buffs of the enemy army for a hit penalty. Thus, you will shoot according to the standard ballistic skill 3+. In my opinion, not bad and not an imbalance. 2) Dealing damage. I think, taking into account the latest trends, we need to make some guns more armor-piercing and with a damage of 2. Here we need to think. For example, the pulse of a rifle or burst of a gun, change the stats by 5; -1; 2. It is also possible to revise some of the big guns of battle suits so that they can adequately respond to toughness 8, which is now so much (for vehicles of spacemarines for example). 3) Add a stratagem that would allow shooting at the FIGHTING PHASE from all available weapons, as if they were firing at an ultra-short distance. 4) And the last. To prevent fire warriors from being such cannon fodder, you need to increase their vitality. You can leave them their stamina and the number of wounds, but increase the save to 3+. And you can give a stratagem on fnp, which would be very useful for controlling points. That's probably all. And believe me, compared to those changes and bonuses of the enemy armies, all this would not be imbalanced. This would allow this army to play with dignity and give a competitive rebuff to the enemy.
@harrysmith17004 жыл бұрын
Wait, you did all those entries MANUALLY?!😲
@Sollapoke4 жыл бұрын
Ik it’s crazy!!
@konewhatsthenamespolicy63084 жыл бұрын
At this point I might as well turn my devil fish into a hammerhead. Seems useless otherwise
@cathode62524 жыл бұрын
It's the only troop transport though. I am not criticizing you, but could you elaborate on this statement?
@konewhatsthenamespolicy63084 жыл бұрын
CATHODE mainly it doesn’t seem to have the durability to protect troops or the speed to be an efficient hit and run troop deployment strategy, especially with the new board sizes and vehicle rules. Essentially my troops could get to where I need them almost as fast and likely more safely than risking them dying in the explosion of the devil fish. Converting it into a second hammerhead seems like a better choice and saves me money. Plus I can make one a longstrike
@cathode62524 жыл бұрын
@@konewhatsthenamespolicy6308 do you think it might be better suited in Combat Patrol? I haven't experimented at all.
@ninja58794 жыл бұрын
You should post this over on r/Warhammercompetitive on reddit.